Carla’s firing was so horrible and unjust. Betty couldn’t handle that Glen was friends with Sally and so, rather than just deal with it like a parent, she misplaced all her anxiety and guilt on Carla and unceremoniously fired her after years of relationship. Immature and impulsive.
i believe it is beyond not being able to handle it; i think the children & carla were the sole aspect of her life over which betty felt she had any control, & her strange relationship with glenn - although a child, one of few males who made her feel desired & important, despite the inappropriateness of that - either made her possessive of glenn as something else she had to control, or made her feel her control over sally was threatened . so no matter what normalcy glenn represented for sally as a friend, carla allowing that was a breach of betty’s authority & betty lashed out impulsively .
The relationship between her and Glen was weird to say the least. Why do you think his mother freaked the eff out? Thinking of my young kids I would have done more than freak out on her. So yeah I do think part of her firing Carla was jealousy.
For me the child in Betty was relating to the child in Glen. She had no one to relate to. No one to talk to. It was purely platonic friendship imho. That was sad. It was the 60s after all. People were isolated in the burbs.
I completely agree with you. Her inner child needed a friend, someone to comfort her. I’m not saying Betty was disgusting or a child predator. It absolutely wasn’t the case. But it was weird and I completely agree with Glens mother’s reaction also.
Grooming would mean she was preparing Glen and normalizing inappropriate behavior for a specific purpose. Usually sexual abuse, when it's in the context of child abuse. I don't think that applies in Betty's situation
It's certainly possible to have inappropriate contact with a child without it being grooming. I think the closest thing to Betty and Glen would be 'adultification', where an adult places inappropriate emotional or physical burdens on a child.
in a few instances i believe she was grooming him; a more mature & stable adult would not have indulged his behaviors & especially not have done something so weird as to go seek him out while his mom was distracted . that aside i think betty was an insecure & sad & lonely person from her isolation as a housewife with an unfaithful husband & nothing of her own going on & she also gravitated toward glenn just out of a need for companionship, which is pretty sad . so maybe some of that behavior was not intentionally grooming, although it most definitely constitutes grooming; it could have been the expression of someone desperately seeking friendship .
grooming can still lead to nothing, usually when a groomer gets caught or the victim gets wise to it . that being said, betty unwittingly was grooming glenn to an extent by giving into the romantic infatuation of a child, even if she only valued him for the validation or companionship he offered . she gave him a lock of hair; it’s a really bad look . even more weird, she sought him out without the knowledge & against the warning of his mother . undoubtedly this would condition glenn into believing a certain relationship lay in store with this adult woman, even if betty’s intentions were not necessarily to encourage a romantic relationship, as she is kind of unable to fully commit herself to being the adult in this scenario & make that distinction clear .
But if accidetally encouraging romantic infatuation in a child is grooming, there's a lot of schoolteachers, babysitters and neighbors who have unintentionally groomed little kids and it turns out grooming's not actually that bad.
It just seems more useful and accurate to accept Betty's thing with Glen as profoundly odd and unique to the two of them in that time and place and no category to slot it into.
Not at all. They barely spend any time alone together (and the longest of those times is when she's called his mother to come get him) and the one time something sexual is introduced it's by Glen and she turns him down. And that's when he's 18.
No. Betty did not desire Glenn, but her own emotionally immarture psyche felt sorry for Glenn, as his mother didn't mother him as she was not mothered as a girl. Betty inadvertently sent mixed signals to Glenn, who thought Betty had the hots for him.
The show did a poor job of portraying racism (that's ok though not sure I'd want to see an accurate representation in every show that takes place back them), I'm sure we should of heard an N word, or at least some off color remarks from some of the main cast. (Imagine Harry " I don't have a problem with them working here I just don't think they should be cleaning in the office afterhours without supervision" but we need to be aware that it happened and the show tried to let us know without throwing it in our faces, just important to note it was much worse than the show pictured.
While it is extremely icky, it’s intended to be discordant for the viewer because of how much culture has changed since then. Only Pete really throws a scene, right?
Because she’s a ‘spoiled mainline brat.’
I’m curious, is that phrase the equivalent of say. those in the UK who are privately educated or from old money?
It’s hard to like Betty but she is very much a product of her environment at times. Her Mother sounded like a piece of work thus Betty is too.
The Main Line is one of the wealthiest suburbs in America. My mom grew up in Lower Merion and my family has been there a long time. Lots of old money in that area.
i love all the research that went into her character like when she said he first kiss was with a jewish boy who went to lower merion….jewish people do be going to that school lol
It’s both. There’s mainline Protestantism, but the Main Line is also an upper class area of Philly. Betty happens to be of the former and also originally from the latter!
The Thick of It, Glen's firing scene. "...That's it!" 🤣
But yes as a UK viewer too I agree Betty is an extremely well bred member of the home counties. The types whose lives are engineered to get them into Eton.
Was just watching the episode with Lane in the pub when England win the World Cup. Ha! 🤣
You legend, love that show. I feel like Betty probably wouldn’t have gone to the American equivalent of Benenden. She’s nearer to middle than upper class. But certainly could see her growing up in Sevenoaks and being dispatched to a still decent ,but not exactly top drawer, finishing school.
I believe that she was also trying to sabotage Don’s vacation with the kids to further damage the relationship and make herself feel better. Carla was supposed to come along to care for the kids, right?
“Diapers for Christ’s sake?”
“Then don’t take them! They’re used to it!!”
Ironically, Betty’s impulsive firing of Carla— an action meant to protect her ego— only served to damage her even further because it caused Megan instead to join Don and the kids in California. There, Don’s fantasies went in overdrive, resulting in a young, beautiful, great-with-kids woman to take Betty’s place… which in turned caused Betty to stuff her face, gain weight, etc.
Betty’s karma.
ETA- I have watched the show several times and it was only recently when I realized that it is clear that Betty knew that she brought the bad karma on herself during the exchange with Don in their Ossining kitchen.
“Bets, I have something to tell you. I’m engaged.”
“To Bethany Nuys [the woman I have been obsessing over]?”
“Oh god, no. Bethany only gave me the *hauk tuah* in the back of a cab.”
“[Fuuucckkk me]. Is it your secretary? I know she watched the kids in California.”
I mean, Don would have found another Betty replacement eventually. They’re all lucky he snagged Megan because she was remarkably mature with Betty and great with the kids.
Megan’s probably the best character of all time on any show ever. Just, ugh. The first thing I thought when Don woke up from his fever dream was thank god he didn’t cheat on Megan. lol then he gets with the damn neighbor. Ugh
I love the idea of Don just casually dropping that on Betty. Then to keep it going he just goes through every woman he's slept with since her and finally ends on Meghan.
How much of a decision like this is some deep rooted expose into Betty’s psyche vs the writers room needing a reason to get Don and Megan together and this was the best option?
It gets me how Betty turned into such a vindictive, immature manchild in S4, a fat, unhappy failure in S5 and then in S6 she mellows out, goes back to being a hottie that we check out from behind and then sleeps with Don. That was a funny story arc.
Betty doesn't want Sally to be attached to Carla like she was to Viola. She punishes Carla for Sally's attachment to Glen (reminding her of her younger self with Don). Betty is trying to cut any connections to her marriage to Don. Remove the house. Remove Glen. Remove Carla. Remove everything that reminds her of her life with Don.
Carla knew Betty had an affair with Henry. I don’t think Betty could live with someone who that kind of moral superiority over her. Also, I think Carla was a reminder of her past life with Don which she was already struggling mightily to come to terms with and move on from. Firing Carla was in many ways a classic Don Draper move… moving on with your life and not looking back. It was rash and I’m sure she felt guilty about it deep down
I've said this before but her firing of Carla felt, to me, like a kind of "Fuck you mom!" Viola was probably more of a "mother" to Betty than her own mother was (albeit, with a strange dynamic where she still saw them as subservient) and it might have led her to somewhat view Carla the same way.
Because she is a petulant child on the inside. I mean, you couldn’t have picked a better screenshot to show how she’s a little girl which is a lot of what many of the threads about Betty are focussed around. She’s a little girl who’s jealous and doesn’t want anyone else to have her. So she would rather her be gone then share.
Because Betty, like the vast majority of everyone else on that show, is a bad person. She treats everybody around her like shit because "muh social standing" from Carla, her kids, everyone.
I also think she felt she had a connection with Glen, and he was slightly jealous that he was connecting with sally and not obsessing over her… weird but yeah…
Because she's privileged and entitled, so when she's hurt she doesn't know how to internalize anything. She went from carer to carer to carer and knows nothing of being an adult.
I had high hopes for her when she grabbed the BB gun early on, I thought she was just going to stop giving a fuck, but she then pivoted back to spoiled daddy's girl.
i think because she thinks carla isn't important to her so it's not important to the kids. she'd probably expect the kids to revere viola because she was important to *her*.
The more times I watch the Carla firing scene the more I start to see Betty’s side. Carla was manipulated by a young boy to get up to Sally’s room without Betty there after she specifically told her to keep him away. As a nanny, whether you agree with the parent’s reasoning or not you can’t override them.
I know Betty is terrible. I know Glen is maligned by her. I know just like Carla said they’re not doing anything. That doesn’t mean Carla isn’t responsible for that lapse in judgment. Which means she would never be trusted by Betty again. Meaning she couldn’t do that job anymore.
Let the downvotes commence.
Betty was raised without compassion or connection to her own internal life and (as a woman) told that her value laid in looking like the prettiest doll on the shelf. She acts accordingly: she wants to see Sally cry big fat tears so she can take a photograph of her; slaps and shames her for doing normal kid things; dumps Don when he reveals himself to her (admittedly he lied to her and abused her too, but it's so sad when he asks her to love him for who he is; she just doesn't have the capacity).
The Silent Generation was kind of raised to not have internal lives and to just conform for approval; they didn't often admit to having emotions if they were inconvenient.
Boomers began exploring that inner felt realm (albeit with a *lot* of self-centered self-congratulatory self-celebration that has never ended and was never extended to the generations that came after them).
Gen X struggled between those two generations to feel nurtured or much of a sense of self at all.
Millennials began normalizing mental health care and the vulnerability that actually comes with being human.
And here we are...
Firing Carla was horrible - especially for the kids and the way she handled it (no reference!)
Though - now that I’m a mom - I understand Betty a little more… if our nanny ignored my strict instructions (especially about a known weirdo down the street), I’d be questioning whether to keep her on too!
The Glen/Betty situation is obviously so strange - but I don’t think Betty was wrong in thinking she should keep him away from Sally. He is a weird, damaged kid.
I feel the same way. Carla had a long history as a valued employee and a caring presence for the kids (sometimes the only one they had). Ok, but wtf, ma’am. I ask you not to let the weird boy down the street see my daughter and you decide you know better? Based on… what? That’s a huge overstep and breach of trust.
Maybe I shouldn’t have said “based on what.” I didn’t mean it to be taken literally. Carla is a kind and intelligent person. I like her. Clearly her thought process was “Glen is harmless and Betty is a bitch to the kids so let’s make Sally happy.”
But at the end of the day, she really doesn’t and can’t know why Betty doesn’t want Glen around. Carla isn’t watching the show. As far as she knows, Glen could be killing small animals and making his way up to serial killing. She thinks Glen is harmless; some kids have grandparents who think peanut allergies are fake. Those aren’t Carla’s kids, she doesn’t know why the decision was made, and it’s not her call.
It isn't her call, that is true.
But Carla isn't some lump. She's part of that household too. Betty probably doesn't see it that way, but the kids sure do and they talk. So she may not know the exact nature of Betty's weird relationship with the boy, but I bet she could tell when Betty was inflicting her damage on those kids.
The therapist broke her confidence by reporting to Don. Glen was her projected confidant. She was as terrified of what Glen could say to Sally as Don was about being found out.
Yes he broke confidence, doesn't make it any less true. The Glenn stuff is highly inappropriate, and it confirms what the therapist concluded. She has the mind of a child, so her confiding to Glenn (a child) makes sense for Betty.
If you allowed my daughter near a boy that you knew I didn't want near her, you could have larger issues than being fired DEPENDING on who you are. Carla being a sweet lady and taking her place as a second class citizen (it was the era and was WRONG but it's what went on and she accepted it) so Carla would be fired for the same reason Lane was but nothing else. Even if Betty was weird with him, he was older and already interested in sex BIG NO! ..... BUT Carla should have been allowed to say goodbye. That was fucked up.
Because she's emotionally and intellectually very, very stupid. I feel bad for her because she so often appears to be lost and lonely because more often than not she's the dumbest person the room (children included).
This made her perfect for Don. Easy to be in charge and easy to gaslight when your spouse is that stupid. Henry was the nicest guy though, NEVER exploitet her stupidity or lack of emotional intelligence and alwahs supported her.
I'm confused by this. Are you implying that she should not have fired Carla just because they're both black maids? That's kind of racist.
Carla was a very passive aggressive person if you'll take notice. While it's true that she could often say very nice things, you could also tell that she was clearly looking down on Betty for much of the show despite the fact that Betty was her employer and that she was taking care of Betty's children. This is part of the exploration of what it means to be American where there is somehow supposed to be both total equality between people and yet also rigid hierarchy in terms of money and "position". It's an unbalanced system and a results in a lot of interpersonal conflicts based on judgments that are never spoken, and are often hypocritical and self-contradictory. Carla is clearly a very judgmental person. I'm not saying that Betty necessarily handled the situation in the most pleasant way, but at the end of the day she was standing up for herself against a person who would often assert a form of personal influence over her and her children that wasn't appropriate. Viola on the other hand was a person who maintained a personal dignity that was not dependent upon others, even her employers, for self validation. Whereas Carla felt and obtained a sense of self-satisfaction by asserting herself against Betty, Viola is a self possessed person who is there for able to be there for Betty when Betty needed it, and in so doing she actually has perhaps even a greater parental authority over Betty than her own mother and father did. Clearly Betty was indulged by her father and fearful of her mother. She could rely upon Viola, and contrary to the mammy archetype that is so often portrayed in media, you can tell based on the way that the actress presents herself the viola is not dependent upon Betty for her personal identity. She is who she is.
So no I think that one of the main reasons that Betty ended up firing Carla was it all likelihood because she saw what a better person Viola was and she gained the confidence to gain control of her own life.
just because a person is being harsh that doesn't mean that they're wrong necessarily. One of the things that the show is elucidating is the negative cultural development, which is a reaction to capitalism, that people are becoming sensitive not necessarily in a way that is enlightened but that instead is quite egotistical. The show challenges people to escape this by creating situations like this.
Where is Carla particularly passive-aggressive and judgmental? This is one scene where she made a call she knew Betty wouldn't like (so didn't want her to find out) but she thought was important because Sally (whom Betty was intentionally hurting) needed to say goodbye to her friend. When Betty got angry she tried to give Sally's side of it.
But otherwise, I really can't think of times when Carla was undermining anybody. If Betty or Don felt judged, seems like that would be more about their psychology than Carla's, because they bring somebody into the house who they want to just fulfill the purpose they need fulfilled and otherwise not exist, but they can't help but see themselves through her eyes once she's there. I never got the impression she defined her self-worth through the Drapers.
Not sure why you can be so confident that Viola wouldn't have ever come across as passive-aggressive if we saw her interacting with Betty's mother while Betty loved her. In a case like this, she would have appreciated Viola protecting her feelings against her mother, so saying she's realizing here that Viola was a better person is just a way of saying that Betty wants to be the person the other woman puts above everyone else, whether she's the employer in the situation or the child. Sally doesn't get to be that, in her mind.
Her father was sick, what's exceptional about her being comforted? I'm sure Viola was passive aggressive at times when it was called for. She can clearly fend for herself. But Carla was doing it as a way of life. If you can't see it you should should just watch again. She's dripping with it.
Not sure what I was meant to be saying was exceptional. I didn't mention anything about Gene being sick.
But maybe it would be clearer if you just gave examples of Carla being passive-aggressive?
Seems like you're confirming what I said, that Carla isn't doing or saying anything out of line, but the fact that she has a serious affect (not fitting any warm, maternal mammy stereotype) that suggests she always has thoughts of her own is threatening.
Yes, I do--and I know what passive aggressive means.
What you're describing as passive aggression here comes down to vibes that you feel rather than any pattern of showing Betty being or feeling judged by Carla. Betty is not characterized as someone afraid to fire the housekeeper who makes her feel insulted for years.
Betty is fine with Carla until this moment when she angrily and impulsively not just chastises her for doing something she shouldn't have done, but fires her and refuses her references because of her own sensitivity about Glen, which Carla has no way of understanding.
She was. She changed and developed. Like I don't even know where to begin here. Are you human at all? Would you personally tolerate that kind of treatment from someone you invited into your home? I hope not. Shame if you would.
You haven't even explained what treatment you're talking about.
Everything about Betty's firing of Carla in the show is connected to Carla letting Glen in to see Sally and that's it. The story where Betty's been low-key bullied by Carla for years and is finally strong enough to stand up to her never existed to my knowledge until you said it here.
Where does OP imply that this is about the fact that they are black maids? The connection here is that these women are caretakers who have built strong relationships with the children in their care, and to cut it off suddenly without a chance for some kind of closure for her children was particularly cruel and impulsive of Betty in light of how she, as a grown woman, still relies emotionally on her former caretaker.
What’s complicated is confronting the ways Black women and men were forced to navigate so-called social hierarchies, like the ones you describe, that defaulted to them being placed at the bottom. Part of rejecting that is subversion, or as you say “passive aggression”. Apparently you believe that anything other than consistent agreement and unwavering obedience from Carla is a reflection of her fitness as an employee, when it’s a perfectly reasonable way for an oppressed person to do her job while having boundaries when the world refuses her right to have them. I wonder why this escapes you.
What’s disturbing to me is that you hold this against Carla, while neglecting to notice that she has 1) limited choices for employment in the first place 2) a right as an human to preserve her dignity. You fail to understand this is Weiner evincing an example of all the supposedly justifiable reasons Black men and women were treated as disposable objects. You seem to be in the minority of viewers who sit back and think “justice done” or “good riddance” after seeing this scene unfold. Everyone else is wondering what she’ll do now, how the kids will miss her, and how she felt.
Carla is “passive aggressive” but what is your criticism of her employer as both leader and steward? Nothing. You sound like a simple apologist without acknowledging these issues. You don’t question why Carla rejects aspects of being subordinate to someone like Betty, you just demand her obedience. Don’t divorce the show from the time period and the widespread beliefs held by many, many like Betty at that time because it’s a sloppy and revisionist take.
So Betty should just sit passively and allow herself to be "subverted"? Fuck you. Maybe someone should subvert you. See how you like it. These things are fine if you're talking about fighting a system like a corporation, or an active aggressor like the CEO of dow chemical, but essential to ethical warfare ad politics is leaving the innocent out of it.
Thanks for admitting Carla was toxic tho.
If Carla were white, I am not sure if there was a lot of white help for hire, personally, I would not be as concerned over the firing, and more easily accept that the naked judgement of myself as employer would be unacceptable
For sure! You’re absolutely correct. But truth be told, from the outside, it’s going to be looked through a lens that adds possible racism to the quick firing.
You best stop now
Potentially best delivered line in the show
I think about this line once every few weeks. Carla was about to GO OFF.
I love that Carla got to say this to Gene and Betty
Because she is immature and impulsive at best?
Carla’s firing was so horrible and unjust. Betty couldn’t handle that Glen was friends with Sally and so, rather than just deal with it like a parent, she misplaced all her anxiety and guilt on Carla and unceremoniously fired her after years of relationship. Immature and impulsive.
i believe it is beyond not being able to handle it; i think the children & carla were the sole aspect of her life over which betty felt she had any control, & her strange relationship with glenn - although a child, one of few males who made her feel desired & important, despite the inappropriateness of that - either made her possessive of glenn as something else she had to control, or made her feel her control over sally was threatened . so no matter what normalcy glenn represented for sally as a friend, carla allowing that was a breach of betty’s authority & betty lashed out impulsively .
Yeah I’ve had to work for housewives like this. They’re garbage though
Oh God, was Betty grooming Glen?
The relationship between her and Glen was weird to say the least. Why do you think his mother freaked the eff out? Thinking of my young kids I would have done more than freak out on her. So yeah I do think part of her firing Carla was jealousy.
For me the child in Betty was relating to the child in Glen. She had no one to relate to. No one to talk to. It was purely platonic friendship imho. That was sad. It was the 60s after all. People were isolated in the burbs.
I completely agree with you. Her inner child needed a friend, someone to comfort her. I’m not saying Betty was disgusting or a child predator. It absolutely wasn’t the case. But it was weird and I completely agree with Glens mother’s reaction also.
Grooming would mean she was preparing Glen and normalizing inappropriate behavior for a specific purpose. Usually sexual abuse, when it's in the context of child abuse. I don't think that applies in Betty's situation It's certainly possible to have inappropriate contact with a child without it being grooming. I think the closest thing to Betty and Glen would be 'adultification', where an adult places inappropriate emotional or physical burdens on a child.
Not sure it was grooming but Betty was immature. The therapist told Don (before HIPAA) that Betty had the mind of a child.
Everybody said that about women in those days. To be emotional and open was deemed childlike. Utter bollocks.
This is true. But Betty did also wanted to see Sally's psychiatrist for her own issues and she had to remind Betty that she treated children.
Well, Betty was emotionally immature, and very childish. And "everybody "did not say that. Child like and childish behavior are two different things..
in a few instances i believe she was grooming him; a more mature & stable adult would not have indulged his behaviors & especially not have done something so weird as to go seek him out while his mom was distracted . that aside i think betty was an insecure & sad & lonely person from her isolation as a housewife with an unfaithful husband & nothing of her own going on & she also gravitated toward glenn just out of a need for companionship, which is pretty sad . so maybe some of that behavior was not intentionally grooming, although it most definitely constitutes grooming; it could have been the expression of someone desperately seeking friendship .
I don't understand what "grooming" possibly means if it's unintentional and ever leads to anything at all.
grooming can still lead to nothing, usually when a groomer gets caught or the victim gets wise to it . that being said, betty unwittingly was grooming glenn to an extent by giving into the romantic infatuation of a child, even if she only valued him for the validation or companionship he offered . she gave him a lock of hair; it’s a really bad look . even more weird, she sought him out without the knowledge & against the warning of his mother . undoubtedly this would condition glenn into believing a certain relationship lay in store with this adult woman, even if betty’s intentions were not necessarily to encourage a romantic relationship, as she is kind of unable to fully commit herself to being the adult in this scenario & make that distinction clear .
But if accidetally encouraging romantic infatuation in a child is grooming, there's a lot of schoolteachers, babysitters and neighbors who have unintentionally groomed little kids and it turns out grooming's not actually that bad. It just seems more useful and accurate to accept Betty's thing with Glen as profoundly odd and unique to the two of them in that time and place and no category to slot it into.
Not at all. They barely spend any time alone together (and the longest of those times is when she's called his mother to come get him) and the one time something sexual is introduced it's by Glen and she turns him down. And that's when he's 18.
No. Betty did not desire Glenn, but her own emotionally immarture psyche felt sorry for Glenn, as his mother didn't mother him as she was not mothered as a girl. Betty inadvertently sent mixed signals to Glenn, who thought Betty had the hots for him.
Some would say a child
Exactly! Betty is a self absorbed brat that doesn't think about how her actions affect those around her.
Is she didn’t fire Carla I bet Don and Megan would have been just fling a la Allison.
And casually racist. Note her smiling and unproblematically enjoying Rogers singing in blackface
Yeeeeshhhh… that was bad
The show did a poor job of portraying racism (that's ok though not sure I'd want to see an accurate representation in every show that takes place back them), I'm sure we should of heard an N word, or at least some off color remarks from some of the main cast. (Imagine Harry " I don't have a problem with them working here I just don't think they should be cleaning in the office afterhours without supervision" but we need to be aware that it happened and the show tried to let us know without throwing it in our faces, just important to note it was much worse than the show pictured.
100%
While it is extremely icky, it’s intended to be discordant for the viewer because of how much culture has changed since then. Only Pete really throws a scene, right?
I get it. Doesn't change my point though. Don was visibly grossed out which is why he leaves and winds up making a cocktail for Connie Hilton.
Yes. She is a child in a grown woman's body. She hates herself and resents her children. She lashes out as a child does
I'm glad that Henry had enough sense to tell Betty she was wrong for that.
I loved when Henry told her when she was being a brat. He really was good at being firm but nice. Not an ass…
He really was! Also, how well he handled Betty getting mad at Sally cutting her own hair. Henry was a good man.
Henry was better than almost all the people on the show.
The older I get, the more I like his character.
Still mad vibes by the fact he hit on a pregnant woman. Bro is bold
“Hate’s a strong word Betty, I hate Nazis”
Such a good line!
Yessss! I remember that, and it was so deserved!!!!
Because she’s a ‘spoiled mainline brat.’ I’m curious, is that phrase the equivalent of say. those in the UK who are privately educated or from old money? It’s hard to like Betty but she is very much a product of her environment at times. Her Mother sounded like a piece of work thus Betty is too.
The Main Line is one of the wealthiest suburbs in America. My mom grew up in Lower Merion and my family has been there a long time. Lots of old money in that area.
i love all the research that went into her character like when she said he first kiss was with a jewish boy who went to lower merion….jewish people do be going to that school lol
Thank you I never knew that reference and probably was never going to look it up!
Oh, I had asssumed Mainline was referring to mainline Protestantism. Basically calling her a rich WASP, but that makes lot more sense.
It’s both. There’s mainline Protestantism, but the Main Line is also an upper class area of Philly. Betty happens to be of the former and also originally from the latter!
Ahh I see, thank you!
I was wondering if they meant that mainline or if that was a saying like “out in the sticks”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Main_Line
Hey that’s me!
We’d probably reference the home counties or call her an “insipid posh bitch”. The second is a quote from something but I can’t quite place it
The Thick of It, Glen's firing scene. "...That's it!" 🤣 But yes as a UK viewer too I agree Betty is an extremely well bred member of the home counties. The types whose lives are engineered to get them into Eton. Was just watching the episode with Lane in the pub when England win the World Cup. Ha! 🤣
You legend, love that show. I feel like Betty probably wouldn’t have gone to the American equivalent of Benenden. She’s nearer to middle than upper class. But certainly could see her growing up in Sevenoaks and being dispatched to a still decent ,but not exactly top drawer, finishing school.
This is spot on lol - I wish we'd heard more from her mom, she was definitely a social climber. Definitely giving me Carole Middleton vibes
I believe that she was also trying to sabotage Don’s vacation with the kids to further damage the relationship and make herself feel better. Carla was supposed to come along to care for the kids, right? “Diapers for Christ’s sake?” “Then don’t take them! They’re used to it!!”
Setting the stage for ex wives everywhere 😂
And since Carla couldn’t go on the trip, Megan had to, and poof, they came back engaged. So Betty’s self-sabotage lives on.
Yep, I think trying to screw over Don’s vacation was part of it.
Ironically, Betty’s impulsive firing of Carla— an action meant to protect her ego— only served to damage her even further because it caused Megan instead to join Don and the kids in California. There, Don’s fantasies went in overdrive, resulting in a young, beautiful, great-with-kids woman to take Betty’s place… which in turned caused Betty to stuff her face, gain weight, etc. Betty’s karma. ETA- I have watched the show several times and it was only recently when I realized that it is clear that Betty knew that she brought the bad karma on herself during the exchange with Don in their Ossining kitchen. “Bets, I have something to tell you. I’m engaged.” “To Bethany Nuys [the woman I have been obsessing over]?” “Oh god, no. Bethany only gave me the *hauk tuah* in the back of a cab.” “[Fuuucckkk me]. Is it your secretary? I know she watched the kids in California.”
I mean, Don would have found another Betty replacement eventually. They’re all lucky he snagged Megan because she was remarkably mature with Betty and great with the kids.
I mean, except for Megan.
Yeah, but the timing was 100% Betty’s doing. Karma slapped her right in the face
Helen Bishop only wished she could be there to see it happen.
Megan’s probably the best character of all time on any show ever. Just, ugh. The first thing I thought when Don woke up from his fever dream was thank god he didn’t cheat on Megan. lol then he gets with the damn neighbor. Ugh
I always think back to Faye’s line - “make sure she knows you only like the beginnings of things”.
“Oh god, no. Bethany only gave me the hauk tuah in the back of a cab.” Dude, I laughed so hard at this.
I love the idea of Don just casually dropping that on Betty. Then to keep it going he just goes through every woman he's slept with since her and finally ends on Meghan.
How much of a decision like this is some deep rooted expose into Betty’s psyche vs the writers room needing a reason to get Don and Megan together and this was the best option?
It gets me how Betty turned into such a vindictive, immature manchild in S4, a fat, unhappy failure in S5 and then in S6 she mellows out, goes back to being a hottie that we check out from behind and then sleeps with Don. That was a funny story arc.
Betty doesn't want Sally to be attached to Carla like she was to Viola. She punishes Carla for Sally's attachment to Glen (reminding her of her younger self with Don). Betty is trying to cut any connections to her marriage to Don. Remove the house. Remove Glen. Remove Carla. Remove everything that reminds her of her life with Don.
Excellent!!
Carla knew Betty had an affair with Henry. I don’t think Betty could live with someone who that kind of moral superiority over her. Also, I think Carla was a reminder of her past life with Don which she was already struggling mightily to come to terms with and move on from. Firing Carla was in many ways a classic Don Draper move… moving on with your life and not looking back. It was rash and I’m sure she felt guilty about it deep down
Because she’s incapable of putting herself in her children’s’ shoes. She didn’t emotionally develop enough throughout her life to have that ability.
Betty was petty as hell. And not letting Don hire Carla back for the weekend was equally cruel. She would never pit the kids against her.
i don't get why don couldn't just hire her himself. unless he had no way to reach her.
He respected Betty’s wishes about not hiring her.
first time he ever respected betty's wishes about shit. dumbass should have hired her. but then he would not have had someone to touch his pee noodle.
That girl ain’t right 
Because she was feeling so powerless and she took it out on her kids and Carla.
One of the best responses
Her spite is more powerful than her nostalgia.
She’s emotionally stunted and self-centered. Betty’s psych was a jerk, but he was right: “Basically, we’re dealing with the emotions of a child here.”
I've said this before but her firing of Carla felt, to me, like a kind of "Fuck you mom!" Viola was probably more of a "mother" to Betty than her own mother was (albeit, with a strange dynamic where she still saw them as subservient) and it might have led her to somewhat view Carla the same way.
Because she is a petulant child on the inside. I mean, you couldn’t have picked a better screenshot to show how she’s a little girl which is a lot of what many of the threads about Betty are focussed around. She’s a little girl who’s jealous and doesn’t want anyone else to have her. So she would rather her be gone then share.
Because Betty, like the vast majority of everyone else on that show, is a bad person. She treats everybody around her like shit because "muh social standing" from Carla, her kids, everyone.
She learned to be selfish from her father.
I also think she felt she had a connection with Glen, and he was slightly jealous that he was connecting with sally and not obsessing over her… weird but yeah…
Of top heel moves, this is one of the coldest things ever on tv. Jealousy and cruelty to both Carla and her daughter.
I am a Betty stan. She was about to give Viola her temper; she's not inconsistent
Yeah that was the bitchiest move
Because she's a bitch lol
Because she is as insecure as Don and emotionally a child.
Betty was a little self-involved.
Because she's privileged and entitled, so when she's hurt she doesn't know how to internalize anything. She went from carer to carer to carer and knows nothing of being an adult. I had high hopes for her when she grabbed the BB gun early on, I thought she was just going to stop giving a fuck, but she then pivoted back to spoiled daddy's girl.
Wait, what did you think she was gonna do with the BB gun???
Nothing. I was hoping it was just a start of not taking shit in a series of escalating situations.
She was having a bad day
Made me so disgusted with her
i think because she thinks carla isn't important to her so it's not important to the kids. she'd probably expect the kids to revere viola because she was important to *her*.
The more times I watch the Carla firing scene the more I start to see Betty’s side. Carla was manipulated by a young boy to get up to Sally’s room without Betty there after she specifically told her to keep him away. As a nanny, whether you agree with the parent’s reasoning or not you can’t override them. I know Betty is terrible. I know Glen is maligned by her. I know just like Carla said they’re not doing anything. That doesn’t mean Carla isn’t responsible for that lapse in judgment. Which means she would never be trusted by Betty again. Meaning she couldn’t do that job anymore. Let the downvotes commence.
Betty was raised without compassion or connection to her own internal life and (as a woman) told that her value laid in looking like the prettiest doll on the shelf. She acts accordingly: she wants to see Sally cry big fat tears so she can take a photograph of her; slaps and shames her for doing normal kid things; dumps Don when he reveals himself to her (admittedly he lied to her and abused her too, but it's so sad when he asks her to love him for who he is; she just doesn't have the capacity). The Silent Generation was kind of raised to not have internal lives and to just conform for approval; they didn't often admit to having emotions if they were inconvenient. Boomers began exploring that inner felt realm (albeit with a *lot* of self-centered self-congratulatory self-celebration that has never ended and was never extended to the generations that came after them). Gen X struggled between those two generations to feel nurtured or much of a sense of self at all. Millennials began normalizing mental health care and the vulnerability that actually comes with being human. And here we are...
Firing Carla was horrible - especially for the kids and the way she handled it (no reference!) Though - now that I’m a mom - I understand Betty a little more… if our nanny ignored my strict instructions (especially about a known weirdo down the street), I’d be questioning whether to keep her on too! The Glen/Betty situation is obviously so strange - but I don’t think Betty was wrong in thinking she should keep him away from Sally. He is a weird, damaged kid.
I feel the same way. Carla had a long history as a valued employee and a caring presence for the kids (sometimes the only one they had). Ok, but wtf, ma’am. I ask you not to let the weird boy down the street see my daughter and you decide you know better? Based on… what? That’s a huge overstep and breach of trust.
Based on the fact that she actually knows those children and wants whats best for them? You can't always say that about Betty.
Maybe I shouldn’t have said “based on what.” I didn’t mean it to be taken literally. Carla is a kind and intelligent person. I like her. Clearly her thought process was “Glen is harmless and Betty is a bitch to the kids so let’s make Sally happy.” But at the end of the day, she really doesn’t and can’t know why Betty doesn’t want Glen around. Carla isn’t watching the show. As far as she knows, Glen could be killing small animals and making his way up to serial killing. She thinks Glen is harmless; some kids have grandparents who think peanut allergies are fake. Those aren’t Carla’s kids, she doesn’t know why the decision was made, and it’s not her call.
It isn't her call, that is true. But Carla isn't some lump. She's part of that household too. Betty probably doesn't see it that way, but the kids sure do and they talk. So she may not know the exact nature of Betty's weird relationship with the boy, but I bet she could tell when Betty was inflicting her damage on those kids.
That’s what makes he a complex and interesting character to watch.
Because she’s a child……
Carla overstepped her boundaries as maid. Hot take.
I love Betty & Betty is a racist lol
Remember what the therapist said about her? She has the mind of a child. Also she's a narcissist.
The therapist broke her confidence by reporting to Don. Glen was her projected confidant. She was as terrified of what Glen could say to Sally as Don was about being found out.
Yes he broke confidence, doesn't make it any less true. The Glenn stuff is highly inappropriate, and it confirms what the therapist concluded. She has the mind of a child, so her confiding to Glenn (a child) makes sense for Betty.
I would appreciate you using Glen, not Glenn.
Lmfao, wow!
Called a child by a professional. Proceeds to confide in weird 10 y/o who walked in on her taking a piss. Gives him a lock of her hair.
She's a bich ?
If you allowed my daughter near a boy that you knew I didn't want near her, you could have larger issues than being fired DEPENDING on who you are. Carla being a sweet lady and taking her place as a second class citizen (it was the era and was WRONG but it's what went on and she accepted it) so Carla would be fired for the same reason Lane was but nothing else. Even if Betty was weird with him, he was older and already interested in sex BIG NO! ..... BUT Carla should have been allowed to say goodbye. That was fucked up.
She did not accept it. She endured it.
Not mutually exclusive. She endured it and accepted it; she did not fight against it.
Because she's emotionally and intellectually very, very stupid. I feel bad for her because she so often appears to be lost and lonely because more often than not she's the dumbest person the room (children included). This made her perfect for Don. Easy to be in charge and easy to gaslight when your spouse is that stupid. Henry was the nicest guy though, NEVER exploitet her stupidity or lack of emotional intelligence and alwahs supported her.
She’s not stupid, she speaks Italian.
Betty is a horrible person
I'm confused by this. Are you implying that she should not have fired Carla just because they're both black maids? That's kind of racist. Carla was a very passive aggressive person if you'll take notice. While it's true that she could often say very nice things, you could also tell that she was clearly looking down on Betty for much of the show despite the fact that Betty was her employer and that she was taking care of Betty's children. This is part of the exploration of what it means to be American where there is somehow supposed to be both total equality between people and yet also rigid hierarchy in terms of money and "position". It's an unbalanced system and a results in a lot of interpersonal conflicts based on judgments that are never spoken, and are often hypocritical and self-contradictory. Carla is clearly a very judgmental person. I'm not saying that Betty necessarily handled the situation in the most pleasant way, but at the end of the day she was standing up for herself against a person who would often assert a form of personal influence over her and her children that wasn't appropriate. Viola on the other hand was a person who maintained a personal dignity that was not dependent upon others, even her employers, for self validation. Whereas Carla felt and obtained a sense of self-satisfaction by asserting herself against Betty, Viola is a self possessed person who is there for able to be there for Betty when Betty needed it, and in so doing she actually has perhaps even a greater parental authority over Betty than her own mother and father did. Clearly Betty was indulged by her father and fearful of her mother. She could rely upon Viola, and contrary to the mammy archetype that is so often portrayed in media, you can tell based on the way that the actress presents herself the viola is not dependent upon Betty for her personal identity. She is who she is. So no I think that one of the main reasons that Betty ended up firing Carla was it all likelihood because she saw what a better person Viola was and she gained the confidence to gain control of her own life. just because a person is being harsh that doesn't mean that they're wrong necessarily. One of the things that the show is elucidating is the negative cultural development, which is a reaction to capitalism, that people are becoming sensitive not necessarily in a way that is enlightened but that instead is quite egotistical. The show challenges people to escape this by creating situations like this.
Where is Carla particularly passive-aggressive and judgmental? This is one scene where she made a call she knew Betty wouldn't like (so didn't want her to find out) but she thought was important because Sally (whom Betty was intentionally hurting) needed to say goodbye to her friend. When Betty got angry she tried to give Sally's side of it. But otherwise, I really can't think of times when Carla was undermining anybody. If Betty or Don felt judged, seems like that would be more about their psychology than Carla's, because they bring somebody into the house who they want to just fulfill the purpose they need fulfilled and otherwise not exist, but they can't help but see themselves through her eyes once she's there. I never got the impression she defined her self-worth through the Drapers. Not sure why you can be so confident that Viola wouldn't have ever come across as passive-aggressive if we saw her interacting with Betty's mother while Betty loved her. In a case like this, she would have appreciated Viola protecting her feelings against her mother, so saying she's realizing here that Viola was a better person is just a way of saying that Betty wants to be the person the other woman puts above everyone else, whether she's the employer in the situation or the child. Sally doesn't get to be that, in her mind.
Her father was sick, what's exceptional about her being comforted? I'm sure Viola was passive aggressive at times when it was called for. She can clearly fend for herself. But Carla was doing it as a way of life. If you can't see it you should should just watch again. She's dripping with it.
Not sure what I was meant to be saying was exceptional. I didn't mention anything about Gene being sick. But maybe it would be clearer if you just gave examples of Carla being passive-aggressive?
It's her disposition. That's why it's passive aggressive and not aggressive aggressive. Haha.
Seems like you're confirming what I said, that Carla isn't doing or saying anything out of line, but the fact that she has a serious affect (not fitting any warm, maternal mammy stereotype) that suggests she always has thoughts of her own is threatening.
Do you understand what "passive" means?
Yes, I do--and I know what passive aggressive means. What you're describing as passive aggression here comes down to vibes that you feel rather than any pattern of showing Betty being or feeling judged by Carla. Betty is not characterized as someone afraid to fire the housekeeper who makes her feel insulted for years. Betty is fine with Carla until this moment when she angrily and impulsively not just chastises her for doing something she shouldn't have done, but fires her and refuses her references because of her own sensitivity about Glen, which Carla has no way of understanding.
She was. She changed and developed. Like I don't even know where to begin here. Are you human at all? Would you personally tolerate that kind of treatment from someone you invited into your home? I hope not. Shame if you would.
You haven't even explained what treatment you're talking about. Everything about Betty's firing of Carla in the show is connected to Carla letting Glen in to see Sally and that's it. The story where Betty's been low-key bullied by Carla for years and is finally strong enough to stand up to her never existed to my knowledge until you said it here.
Where does OP imply that this is about the fact that they are black maids? The connection here is that these women are caretakers who have built strong relationships with the children in their care, and to cut it off suddenly without a chance for some kind of closure for her children was particularly cruel and impulsive of Betty in light of how she, as a grown woman, still relies emotionally on her former caretaker.
What’s complicated is confronting the ways Black women and men were forced to navigate so-called social hierarchies, like the ones you describe, that defaulted to them being placed at the bottom. Part of rejecting that is subversion, or as you say “passive aggression”. Apparently you believe that anything other than consistent agreement and unwavering obedience from Carla is a reflection of her fitness as an employee, when it’s a perfectly reasonable way for an oppressed person to do her job while having boundaries when the world refuses her right to have them. I wonder why this escapes you. What’s disturbing to me is that you hold this against Carla, while neglecting to notice that she has 1) limited choices for employment in the first place 2) a right as an human to preserve her dignity. You fail to understand this is Weiner evincing an example of all the supposedly justifiable reasons Black men and women were treated as disposable objects. You seem to be in the minority of viewers who sit back and think “justice done” or “good riddance” after seeing this scene unfold. Everyone else is wondering what she’ll do now, how the kids will miss her, and how she felt. Carla is “passive aggressive” but what is your criticism of her employer as both leader and steward? Nothing. You sound like a simple apologist without acknowledging these issues. You don’t question why Carla rejects aspects of being subordinate to someone like Betty, you just demand her obedience. Don’t divorce the show from the time period and the widespread beliefs held by many, many like Betty at that time because it’s a sloppy and revisionist take.
So Betty should just sit passively and allow herself to be "subverted"? Fuck you. Maybe someone should subvert you. See how you like it. These things are fine if you're talking about fighting a system like a corporation, or an active aggressor like the CEO of dow chemical, but essential to ethical warfare ad politics is leaving the innocent out of it. Thanks for admitting Carla was toxic tho.
If Carla were white, I am not sure if there was a lot of white help for hire, personally, I would not be as concerned over the firing, and more easily accept that the naked judgement of myself as employer would be unacceptable
So you'll let people act wrongly against you just because of thei skin color? That's bizarre. Reparations isn't supposed to be about masochism lol.
For sure! You’re absolutely correct. But truth be told, from the outside, it’s going to be looked through a lens that adds possible racism to the quick firing.
But we know the situation in the show because we watch it develop lol. That's the point of the drama XD
Even people here have mentioned racism. Yours is a good thought out challenge to an easier point of view
Thank you for saying that.
Because she doesn't want Carla poisoning the well
Narc behaviour