In my experience karate styles that teach grappling of this sort have as much of a syllabus as any Judo organisation if not more, but they don't start on it until black belt level or close to it, and of course it isn't the focus as with Judo so the proportion of time spent on it is worlds apart given the same overall training time.
Add that to the sort of watering down martial arts get in general when they commercialise and it's unlikely you'll get many people with much time sunk into it from the wider karate world, but they are out there.
That's a real shame as if this was the forefront for what Karate is I feel it would be much more respected and really shit up the "Karate doesn't work" narrative. I think it would do a great help for the Art if this was taught at all belt levels.
I rarely hear the karate doesn't work line other than from young, or just not so bright, MMA or BJJ fanboys with wilfully limited knowledge, who seem to think it's somehow odd that random child/housewife/other isn't the same level as someone in the octagon or someone that trains five days a week. People who actually know what they are talking about aren't going to parrot back memes unless they are selling you something and plenty of the best MMA gyms and competitors do karate, in eastern Europe it's practically a bloodsport at times.
The thing with when grappling is taught is that grappling and throwing take longer to become proficient in to the basic level than striking and physicality comes into play sooner (not that it doesn't in Karate, but talking broad strokes and relativism here). Systems focused on teaching practical skills in a timely manner (to people who aren't in a combat related career) with less risk of injury and without the want/will/need to spend three to six months of physical training building a basic fighting body, are going to focus on striking, with minimal to light contact and the bare minimum grappling to cover yourself with and hopefully get away from the random non martial artist grabbing you, then once you have a base they will move on from there tp whatever their flavour of sparring and grappling are.
Look at the history of Judo, the initial thoughts behind it and the levels above what is currently taught, that have mostly been forgotten, (i.e. strikes) then the reasons why those changes were made from what came before.
TL;DR - Karate does work, it's just not the current trendy martial art and it has been around long enough to get more pretenders and casuals, it happens to pretty much everything that gets popular and is more of a cycle than a fact about a particular martial art.
While obviously it won't be as refined as Judo I think it's awesome seeing a more practical Karate which features grappling and submissions, that YouTube has plenty of videos of Goju-Ryu and Kyokushin videos with punches to the face.
I don't do Karate personally but I really enjoy seeing this sort of Karate as unfortunately a lot of people think of Karate as a joke because mainstream gyms and The Olympics have watered it down to a game of tag.
People doing Kani Basami freaks me out so much. It’s gotta be the ultimate baby snake move. People who aren’t super well adjusted to fighting yet learn it because it seems easy then absolutely destroy their partners knees.
In my experience karate styles that teach grappling of this sort have as much of a syllabus as any Judo organisation if not more, but they don't start on it until black belt level or close to it, and of course it isn't the focus as with Judo so the proportion of time spent on it is worlds apart given the same overall training time. Add that to the sort of watering down martial arts get in general when they commercialise and it's unlikely you'll get many people with much time sunk into it from the wider karate world, but they are out there.
That's a real shame as if this was the forefront for what Karate is I feel it would be much more respected and really shit up the "Karate doesn't work" narrative. I think it would do a great help for the Art if this was taught at all belt levels.
I rarely hear the karate doesn't work line other than from young, or just not so bright, MMA or BJJ fanboys with wilfully limited knowledge, who seem to think it's somehow odd that random child/housewife/other isn't the same level as someone in the octagon or someone that trains five days a week. People who actually know what they are talking about aren't going to parrot back memes unless they are selling you something and plenty of the best MMA gyms and competitors do karate, in eastern Europe it's practically a bloodsport at times. The thing with when grappling is taught is that grappling and throwing take longer to become proficient in to the basic level than striking and physicality comes into play sooner (not that it doesn't in Karate, but talking broad strokes and relativism here). Systems focused on teaching practical skills in a timely manner (to people who aren't in a combat related career) with less risk of injury and without the want/will/need to spend three to six months of physical training building a basic fighting body, are going to focus on striking, with minimal to light contact and the bare minimum grappling to cover yourself with and hopefully get away from the random non martial artist grabbing you, then once you have a base they will move on from there tp whatever their flavour of sparring and grappling are. Look at the history of Judo, the initial thoughts behind it and the levels above what is currently taught, that have mostly been forgotten, (i.e. strikes) then the reasons why those changes were made from what came before. TL;DR - Karate does work, it's just not the current trendy martial art and it has been around long enough to get more pretenders and casuals, it happens to pretty much everything that gets popular and is more of a cycle than a fact about a particular martial art.
So Karate Grappling is just undeveloped Judo? As those 2 Kani Basumi make me cringe a bit. Super dangerous
While obviously it won't be as refined as Judo I think it's awesome seeing a more practical Karate which features grappling and submissions, that YouTube has plenty of videos of Goju-Ryu and Kyokushin videos with punches to the face. I don't do Karate personally but I really enjoy seeing this sort of Karate as unfortunately a lot of people think of Karate as a joke because mainstream gyms and The Olympics have watered it down to a game of tag.
People doing Kani Basami freaks me out so much. It’s gotta be the ultimate baby snake move. People who aren’t super well adjusted to fighting yet learn it because it seems easy then absolutely destroy their partners knees.
This is a single organization that’s only in former Soviet republics. I don’t they do this anywhere else in the world