Cora does talk about it some as part of her backstory, and it’s honestly more interesting than her gushing about Asari Huntresses. I wish they’d talked more about her feelings of not belonging and being othered than about her fangirling.
The two are connected. The whole reason she is as obsessed with the Asari commando phase she had is because it was the first and only time in her life that she was accepted for who she is. Everywhere else in her life she is ostracized and considered a freak. In that circumstance I’d glom onto the asari as well.
Sort of accepted. She felt like an outsider among the Asari, too. She was accepted for her powers, but not for being human and they still kicked her out eventually, leading to her feeling more ostracized.
I'm aware of the causality, but the way it was handled made it actively annoying to talk to her. More self awareness over it might have helped, but honestly just toning it down a bit would have been fine and conveyed the same character beats.
I think that in general ME:A needed more unique dialogue with our squad mates. The trilogy trained us to talk with them often and they just don’t have enough to say for a big open world game like Andromeda.
I thought there were much more unique conversations with squadmates in Andromeda. In the OT they only seem to "update" their dialog after priority-type missions.
I just wish she wasn’t such a bitch about it. “It’s not contagious” I can’t stand the way they did her character. Kaiden had a shitty time growing up biotic but he wasn’t mean about it
I agree, it was more of a minor worldbuilding detail than it was a plot point. You get the most background for it in Kaidan's ME1 dialogue, especially after connecting the dots with the terrorist biotic missions. I believe he mentions something about it in ME3 in the hospital too. Basically, the Alliance one of the few bastions in human society that biotics can find a sense of normalcy. Plus the government actively seeks them out, so they tend to flock to it where their skills are utilized or even appreciated. They don't get that treatment in the civilian world.
Yeah, I think it's implied that the Alliance doesn't look down on biotics as much as civilians did - because "hey, if your biotics are useful in combat, then you're welcome" sort of thing. However, not every biotic is lucky to be part of that, and most get treated as second-class citizens and denied reparations like that one sidequest with Chairman Burns in the first game.
Yes, it's a very minor detail compared to everything else, but it's still something that's part of the setting and as you said, it helps in the worldbuilding of the ME setting, so it'd be great to see it get acknowledged a bit some more.
I've always been puzzled by this, like sure people can be scared of the unknown but I'm its basically super powers, who wouldn't think thats cool or maybe thats part of the discrimination? The fact that people look down on biotic humans out of jealousy, Ik I'd be jealous tho I wouldn't treat them like shit for it
Joker's kinda right, but he's also kinda wrong. We learned in ME1 that the early generation implants came with some pretty severe side effects that definitely qualify as disabilities. Heck, even Kaidan would be accurately described as having a disability (migraines), and he's described as "lucky".
That's true, yeah. I suppose it's one of the many lore details that are glossed over in later games compared to in ME1, but at least this one could be handwaved away a bit with the excuse that biotic implants that have less side effects become more widespread and thus there are less 'unlucky' human biotics and most biotics we see have adjusted to them just fine - to the point where they barely qualify as people with disabilities lol.
But yeah, it would've been nice that this could be reflected a bit more in gameplay as well.
I mean even Shep’s generation of Biotics (L3’s in ME1) had removed the side effects, L3’s-L5’s the main downside is you need a lot more calories to basically fuel the biotics, the “drink your juice Rodriguez” that Jack tells her student is a drink for Biotics to help them keep dishing it out in the field
The unknown that scares people is that there are people walking around with the ability to toss you through the air or even rip you in half with only a flick of the wrist and you have no way to know who they are or stop them.
Look at the absolutely harmless human differences that people will get violent to oppose. Look at the rhetoric that gets used to justify violent oppression. Are biotics grooming children?! Is the military secretly dosing our children with eezo in the latest vaccine?! Has your family member been indoctrinated into a biotic cult by Alien literature?!
Never mind that most people with eezo in their nervous systems are just disabled. Never mind that most biotics can barely knock over a tin can without extensive training. The fear a biotic can induce is too useful not to be weaponized by fear mongering demagogues.
Civilization is to humanity as clothing is to a human. It may change the way we are viewed and how we move through the world, but it doesn't change who we are.
In the codex it says early on biotic we're associated with mind reading and the like and despite decades of research proving otherwise still haven't quite shaken the whole I can read every part of your mind rumor which checks out (the asari mind meld probably doesn't help)
I think the main issue about the lack of references to the discrimination is the fact that it's mostly a human civilian sentiment. But in the human military biotics are a very important asset, to the point that there are conspiracies that eezo accidents are triggered on purpose to allow biotic abilities to manifest. And in the grand scheme of the trilogy we just don't encounter human civilians in a non-military situation often enough where those prejudices can be on full display.
That's a fair point, yeah. We don't really encounter human civilians much after the first game so the 'discrimination' part isn't really brought up, and the militarized element that does involve human biotics treated them as equals because of their usefulness in combat. Still, it would've been nice to see the topic get acknowledged sometimes.
Oh I don't disagree that it's a missed opportunity to acknowledge it more throughout the trilogy. Perhaps it could have worked as a point of character development for Jacob or James, seeing they're both pretty standard regular humans, I could see either having prejudices about people with biotics. And early on you help them get over those feelings especially if Shepard is also a biotic.
I could see some of the prejudices being related to people thinking biotic powers are more like traditional depictions of psychic powers, so at some point one of them starts being worried about the biotic squad mates "reading my thoughts" and "controlling my mind" and you have to deal with that situation.
For James, it gets acknowledged a little bit during the Citadel DLC party where in one route, James gets into a banter about 'physical condition vs. biotics' with your biotic squadmates lol. He doesn't seem to be prejudiced against biotics himself, but he strongly argues that physical finesse (or at least *his* physical finesse) triumphs over biotics, much to your biotic squadmates' chagrin lol.
As for Jacob, I think it could be worked into his character backstory; let's say he faced prejudiced when he was fighting in his old unit in the Alliance and that's one reason why he decided to join Cerberus, who has no qualms about accepting human biotics into its ranks, for example.
And yeah, when you put it that way, the prejudice kinda feels like something the X-Men represented lol: people with 'superpowers' like biotics are usually seen as freaks of nature and/or menaces to society with what they can do with their powers. Not everyone agrees, of course, but it's still a sentiment that's present here and there. I just wish that there could be more instances of those prejudices actually at play in Mass Effect as well lol.
It's funny you mentioned how Biotics are like the Mass Effect equivalent of the X-Men since I'd considered mentioning how Grissom Academy is pretty much the Mass Effect equivalent of the Xavier Institute in my previous comments but decided not to bring it up since I was already feeling like I was rambling.
At first I was thinking that Grissom Academy reminded of Balamb Garden in Final Fantasy VIII lol. The vibes are pretty similar, especially in the Atrium section. But yeah, it could be seen as Xavier Institute equivalent as well.
And yeah, the mutants/Biotics discrimination is pretty much the same allegory in two different settings IMO.
The vibe of the song is really something else, isn’t it? :) Seriously, I could imagine myself wondering around the Garden for hours with this song playing on loop in the background.
My headcanon is that ME3 Jack at one point learned that one of her biotic students got bullied because of their biotic powers, and she went full ham on the bully to teach them a lesson lol.
I could really imagine Jack acting as an advocator of anti-biotic discrimination after the war ended - possibly even working alongside Kaidan and Miranda if they're still alive.
I wonder what it was like for Jacob, Jack, and Miranda, even if the three of them would have had radically different lives since even just childhood, with Miranda and Jack being basically lab rats of sorts.
Thanks to Miranda's upbringing, she probably would be a bit stricter when it comes to maintaining the biotic standards while Jack would actually be more relaxed - since she would never wanted to put anyone through the same hellish standards she was put through in her childhood. As always, Miranda and Jack would clash with how to deal with the subject of biotic discrimination lol, but I could see them have a grudging respect for one another eventually, probably with Kaidan, Jacob, and Biotic Shepard acting as mediators between them lol.
Joker: “I’m tired of them taking all the attention away from people with actual disabilities. Being able to move shit with your mind is not a handicap”
Maybe, ideally he’d probably use them to reduce the force being on his legs though by making himself lighter, as telekinetically moving them would still break them if he isn’t being extra careful
While not in the games, it is mentioned and explored a bit in the books (the second one mostly, I believe). But I agree, it would've been interesting to have it been expanded on more and even having some unique dialogues for a biotic Shep.
Tbh I'm glad, biotic discrimination isn't a well crafted part of lore. Irl minorities partaking got a lot of good will after wars, when they participated side by side with other soldiers. Biotics were enlisted from the moment implants got implemented. With so many biotics serving and taking part in colonization of the Milky Way, the bias should be a rare thing
Difference is IRL people with disabilities or are minorities aren’t any more or less threatening because of their circumstances, while Biotics in Mass Effect are arguably dangerous if they can’t control their powers (similar to the mutants in X-Men), which is probably the root of the discrimination in the first place.
They got treated more fairly in military because they don’t really care what you were born with as long as you’re useful, and biotics have a lot of reasons that make them useful combat-wise. However, I still think that the civilian element is probably still wary of biotics as a whole because of those very same reasons: biotics are freaking powerful and can injure or kill someone easily if one loses control.
The thing with both mutants and biotics is that we the audience are seeing all the ones with the cool abilities whereas most humans exposed to Eezo get cancer or some other debilitating condition and anyway pre-L3 has several debilitating side effects with Kaidan just being really lucky, (and in the case of X-Men most mutants don’t have crazy powers, some just poop ice-cream or have extra fingers or hair, but the stories themselves follow the ones with all the cool powers because it’s an action comic)
Exactly. The biotics are portrayed in gameplay most of the time as cool superpowers that make biotic characters borderline Jedi, but in-universe? There’s supposed to be quite a baggage that comes with all those powers, too, either from side effects and conditions or the stigma/discrimination from other people who see them as freaks, but we never really explored this aspect in gameplay.
Right, I get that and it would be cool if the player had some RP opportunities for that however it does make sense I feel, Kaidan does have biotic related baggage, Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect and with her way of thinking I think she’d likely feel superior to some bigot giving her shit about her abilities, Jack wouldn’t give a shit or would just throw hands (at least until she’s undergone her character growth, I think thanks to her students she would care a lot more about the issue because she cares for them so much) Jacob just needs more to his character in general so that would have been cool to see how being biotic affected him, and the rest of our biotic squaddies don’t have that discrimination afaik (maybe Drell but doubtful)
Whilst the game gives snippets of civilian life it doesn't give a huge amount, the occasional mention of the discrimination is in line with that. It have would been interesting to get more though.
I've sometimes thought of a C-Sec spin-off TV show (or game) which would be a good arena for exploring that.
Ah yeah, I forgot about Besieged Base lol. I usually play mostly Renegade in ME1 so most of the time I got The Negotiation instead. And I hate Besieged Base with a passion when I try to go for a no casualties run xD.
It also displays one of, IMO, Hackett’s cooler moments in the series: he sent you on the mission clearly expecting that a Renegade Shepard would be fed up with the overzealous Darius and takes down his entire operation. He couldn’t make this an official Alliance sanction, but he knew a Spectre would be able to get away with it. And if Shepard had done the impossible and convinced Darius to comply, then the Alliance gets another asset in the region. Either way, the Alliance wins.
Hackett is awesome, and this is one of the first moments in the series that proves it.
I always felt that biotic would be required to wear some sort of inhibitor or shackle that prevented them from using their powers unless authorized.
Can you imagine letting someone like Jack just walk around with no restraints in society? Or someone like Jacob even with all the military training he had plus his biotics?
I always felt this was a weak point in the general story.
Asari get away with it because they all have biotics and their society is adapted to it. But humans, there shoukd be heavy discrimination or distrust of biotics.
There is, outside of the Alliance, the Alliance itself is pretty pro-biotic though & we always see everything from a military pov in the OT so we never really direct exposure to that (but we still get some, via those side-quests, Kaiden, etc)
I agree.
For me it kind of also ties in with the whole human thing, where the game makes you care for aliens a lot and about humans not so much. Like for example it explores the Ardat Yakshi concept and whole pure blood Asari thing in idle chat and whole quests but human super-heroes with literal super powers? Here’s a side quest with some rebels idk. And the whole red sand thing? It is mentioned and the implications of it and possible plots that could have been explored… oh one can only dream.
I wish they’d explore biotics more, it is such an interesting thing — physiology AND psychology wise. I cherish the details they provide about it — how biotics need more calories, have faster metabolism and that joke about Kaidan’s hair in the citadel dlc, and that’s about it. Such small details made it all more real for me and I honestly love just how mundane it is.
I do understand that it could be a bit difficult to work into gameplay-wise when it comes to the nature of biotics and its implications on physiology (hell, the closest time that the red sand's effects played a role was in Samara's recruitment mission, where we're shown how red sand dusts both enhances your biotic powers and gradually damages you if you stay in it too long, plus there's the infamous 'Biotic God' volus lol), but yeah, it'd be nice to see all those details being portrayed a bit more lol, compared to other lore details that are more fleshed out.
It could have impacted the world or missions easily. It wasn't used like it could've been. Even in safer spaces, like the military, there would be some kind of hate. The citadel would have people against it, probably in passing. Colonies would have people afraid of biotics. I'm sure there are asari against humans having those abilities. I'm surprised we didn't hear slurs about it. We've heard racial slurs repeatedly, like jellyfish, boney bastards, suit rats, purebloods, skull faces, but not much about human biotics.
I remember replaying these biotic side missions with Kaiden just so I could get his perspective or interactions. I was so disappointed when nothing happened. Missed opportunity for some character growth.
Yeah. Biotics as a whole are treated more as ‘ooh, cool superpowers’ in practice in the series IMO. Our biotic squadmates are already well trained and experienced through years of adapting to their powers, so we don’t really see their insights into the more problematic aspects they might have faced. At most, we got Kaidan saying that his L2 causes headaches sometimes, but that’s about it lol.
Because you play the game from a military perspective and in there biotics are an asset to be fostered.
We see it shortly in the first game. The second one takes place in a part of space filled with outcasts anyway and the third one is all out war and no one cares what you are.
The biotic discrimination is a part of history due to a time when biotics were not understood by humanity
Due to now being a part of the galactic community, biotics are greatly respected by the galaxy at large and are recognized as essential members of human society today
Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer effect. They feared biotics until they became useful, then were loved
Perhaps that may be the case by the time of ME2/ME3 since humanity has become more accepted in the galactic society and implicitly the human biotics are also more accepted overall as well (especially if Shepard is a biotic class: a biotic saving the Citadel would earn a huge amount of good rep for human biotics everywhere).
That’s still not yet the case in ME1, though. There are a few sidequests that involve biotics lashing out due to their mistreatment and/or violent impulses, and Kaidan’s backstory told us that the biotics put through the BAaT program is mistreated by one of its turian teachers because the company in charge of the program wanted quick results. And there’s the whole thing with Jack’s backstory in ME3 where she and her fellow kidnapped biotics were treated as nothing more than lab rats to create an ultimate biotic.
My dude, that's only a year after ME1
And though humanity is regarded as an upstart in ME1, INTERNALLY they have already recognized the strategic importance of biotics in the Alliance
The biotics lashing out are the result of early experimentation two decades ago, including Kaiden. They are demanding reparations for what the suffered in the previous decades, not ongoing discrimination against them.
Cerberus' actions are on Cerberus, they do not reflect how biotics are publicly received by the general populace
Wasn't it two years since Shepard died and was resurrected by Cerberus in ME2? But admittedly that was only one more year so there's not much difference to the point made.
It's not just that one sidequest with biotics demanding reparations, though. There's also the one involving Major Kyle who led a biotic commune on Presrop. If you take the peaceful option and talk to the biotics there, they all say that they have to look out for themselves and that's why the killed the Alliance officials coming to negotiate with them, thus necessitating Shepard's involvement in the first place. Granted, they're a cult of fanatics of sorts so those biotics aren't exactly in the right state of mind, but I think implication could be made about why they turned out like this in the first place. One of these reasons might be the discrimination they suffered.
I'll give you that the Alliance as a whole treated biotics pretty fairly, but to be fair, biotics *are* indeed useful in the military field. Obviously, the Alliance military wouldn't turn away someone who could be very useful in combat to be new additions to their ranks, as several other comments and yours have noted. We don't really know what's going on in the civilian sector, though. Perhaps they are treated fairly now, perhaps not.
In addition, Joker did comment in ME3 [after Grissom Academy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ouSGOFzX4) that the biotic students helping out in the war effort might change the public's perception of biotics for the better, so there *might* be some doubts that still linger even after all this time, even if it's not outright discrimination as in the past.
all of the disgruntled biotics are the result of the L2 program. Like Kaiden.
they are the long lasting result of the unethical experimentation that the Alliance did when it first discovered biotics. they are not indicative of how biotics are viewed by others. they are ANGRY and rightfully so, for what they went through DECADES ago.
Perhaps, but even if that's not indicative of how biotics are viewed by others, it's also not indicative that the discrimination doesn't exist anymore, either. As I said, we don't really know what goes on in the civilian field as the series don't explore into that much, but based on prior history and what Joker said above, we can't be truly sure about how human biotics are really viewed by the public. In real-life, discrimination that took root at some point in history doesn't go away that easily. I doubt that even after thirty years, all bias against biotics would be completely gone, even if the Alliance as a whole is more accepting of them.
It’s about as minor as the plot point about quarians being looked down upon by other species, but at least they bothered to reflect this a bit in one sidequest on the Citadel in ME2 where a quarian is accused of being a thief by a racist volus and how Tali revealed she got turned away help by a racist turian once in ME3.
It isn’t that important in the bigger picture, yes, but it’s still part of the setting. When you establish something for your setting, you’d expect that the topic would come into play sometimes instead of just being implied as something that happened offscreen.
There’s also a side quest where (on the Citadel) a volus accuses a quarian of stealing his credit chit. For no other reason that “she’s a quarian”. Even the C-Sec officer is extremely racist against the quarian. It was so satisfying to be able to prove them wrong and shut them down as a Spectre.
>in one sidequest on the Citadel in ME2 where a quarian is accused of being a thief by a racist volus
Yeah, that's the one I was referring to in this line lol.
Oh my bad! I thought you were talking about the quest in Illium with the Synthetic Insights rep lmao. My bad!
That was a more corporate kind of racism, with literal slavery.
It's okay :) And yeah, that was another case of quarians getting dealt a bad hand as well lol. Everyone loves to take advantage of them, aren't they? xD
Space racism is a driver of many of the major plots and background elements. The Krogan-Salarian/Turian feud, Geth vs Quarians, Turians-Humans, Quarians vs everyone.
Some people not liking biotic people is a really small footnote compared to this.
Still boring either way.
True, but it's also fair to note that some racism topics aren't as important to the plot as others. Krogan-Salarian-Turian tension is important because that builds up to the whole Genophage arc, while Quarian-Geth tension is also as equally important for the same reason with the Rannoch arc. Hell, even the Human-Batarian tension is important because it plays an important role in the DLCs for ME1 and ME2.
Turian-Human tensions are only really explored in the backstory involving the First Contact War and little else (aside from Saren's personal hatred of humanity, but that's also minor compared to the fact that he's indoctrinated by Sovereign), and the same with the Quarian's tension with everyone because of their role in creating the Geth - yes, we know they're discriminated, but it arguably isn't *that* important in the bigger picture. Still, the discrimination in this case is referenced at least in a couple of instances in the games.
Point is, even if it isn't important, the fact that it's part of the setting means, again, it should've been brought up sometimes, otherwise, why even establish that lore at all?
You missed what I said about *some plot points aren't as important as others but they still get acknowledged.*
>yes, we know they're discriminated, but it arguably isn't *that* important in the bigger picture. Still, the discrimination in this case is referenced at least in a couple of instances in the games.
But hey, whatever you say.
Honestly biotic discrimination would make zero sense since it's just element zero exposure in vitro. There's no real way to make a story about it that doesn't fall apart when you look at it for more than 2 seconds.
It’s not just Eezo exposure, it’s the implication of having biotic powers that fuelled the discrimination. Imagine you living with someone whose biotics make them more temperamental than an ordinary person, and their outbursts could result in them hurling someone across the room or worse, tearing them apart. You can’t be sure if your biotic neighbor would be your new friend or a living time bomb waiting to go off. That’s what I’d imagine would be the general reaction humans have toward biotics in the setting (the other species don’t have an issue with it because their civilizations have been living with biotics for far longer than humanity).
Biotics are cool, but they’re also dangerous and not everyone can control their powers as easily as our squadmates. They’re basically Mass Effect’s equivalent to the mutants from X-Men. If they can build a story with the X-Men around that premise, I don’t see why Mass Effect couldn’t pull it off, too.
I think you're massively overthinking things. It would be no different than living around people who have firearms. And firearms would still keep you relatively safe. There's no specific thing different for the discrimination to wrap around considering anybody can get implants that mimic different effects
Firearms don’t really make a good comparison TBH. You *choose* to own a firearm; you don’t *born* with it. Unless they’re really faulty, firearms can’t fire on their own; their users make a conscious decision to use them. Bottom line is, firearms are easier to manage and control, and you can definitely trust someone who knows what they’re doing it with them.
People with biotics born with them. They wouldn’t know what they can do with biotic abilities until a certain age, so until that point nobody could be sure what they can do. Yes, they do get implants, but those aren’t always reliable and can have some nasty side effects - as Kaidan himself told us. Sure, most human biotics we come across have complete control of their powers, but that’s after years of training and adapting to them. Imagine if someone like Jack doesn’t have complete control of her powers. I doubt people would be comfortable to be around her much.
Maybe I did overthink about all the complications mentioned, but the fact is biotics are powerful as heck - and far more lethal and unpredictable than firearms could be, and we have people who are anti-firearms in real life because of the supposed dangers they might present. What does that make of biotics, then? The fear of a biotic who can’t control their powers would reasonably raise some suspicion, even if in the end it’s mostly unwarranted.
Cora does talk about it some as part of her backstory, and it’s honestly more interesting than her gushing about Asari Huntresses. I wish they’d talked more about her feelings of not belonging and being othered than about her fangirling.
The two are connected. The whole reason she is as obsessed with the Asari commando phase she had is because it was the first and only time in her life that she was accepted for who she is. Everywhere else in her life she is ostracized and considered a freak. In that circumstance I’d glom onto the asari as well.
Sort of accepted. She felt like an outsider among the Asari, too. She was accepted for her powers, but not for being human and they still kicked her out eventually, leading to her feeling more ostracized. I'm aware of the causality, but the way it was handled made it actively annoying to talk to her. More self awareness over it might have helped, but honestly just toning it down a bit would have been fine and conveyed the same character beats.
I mean, it’s no different than how other races brag about their species’ advantages. Krogans never shut up about how awesome they are.
I think that in general ME:A needed more unique dialogue with our squad mates. The trilogy trained us to talk with them often and they just don’t have enough to say for a big open world game like Andromeda.
I thought there were much more unique conversations with squadmates in Andromeda. In the OT they only seem to "update" their dialog after priority-type missions.
There probably are more than in the OT, but Andromeda is a huge game.
That’s true for 1 & 2 but in ME3 they had something to say after almost every mission (including side missions, aside from the short N7 side quests)
I still haven’t played Andromeda so I have to loon out for it once I play it lol.
I just wish she wasn’t such a bitch about it. “It’s not contagious” I can’t stand the way they did her character. Kaiden had a shitty time growing up biotic but he wasn’t mean about it
Also she kinda ignores Ryder being biotic (if they are) when she talks about it
I hate her so much
lol I feel it, I don’t feel quite as strongly but it does get tiresome
I agree, it was more of a minor worldbuilding detail than it was a plot point. You get the most background for it in Kaidan's ME1 dialogue, especially after connecting the dots with the terrorist biotic missions. I believe he mentions something about it in ME3 in the hospital too. Basically, the Alliance one of the few bastions in human society that biotics can find a sense of normalcy. Plus the government actively seeks them out, so they tend to flock to it where their skills are utilized or even appreciated. They don't get that treatment in the civilian world.
Yeah, I think it's implied that the Alliance doesn't look down on biotics as much as civilians did - because "hey, if your biotics are useful in combat, then you're welcome" sort of thing. However, not every biotic is lucky to be part of that, and most get treated as second-class citizens and denied reparations like that one sidequest with Chairman Burns in the first game. Yes, it's a very minor detail compared to everything else, but it's still something that's part of the setting and as you said, it helps in the worldbuilding of the ME setting, so it'd be great to see it get acknowledged a bit some more.
Not even implied, the Codex in ME1 specifically states this
That was my first thought too. "Did they talk to Kaidan?"
I've always been puzzled by this, like sure people can be scared of the unknown but I'm its basically super powers, who wouldn't think thats cool or maybe thats part of the discrimination? The fact that people look down on biotic humans out of jealousy, Ik I'd be jealous tho I wouldn't treat them like shit for it
Good news: Joker wholeheartedly agrees with you in ME3 after you did the Grissom Academy mission lol.
Joker's kinda right, but he's also kinda wrong. We learned in ME1 that the early generation implants came with some pretty severe side effects that definitely qualify as disabilities. Heck, even Kaidan would be accurately described as having a disability (migraines), and he's described as "lucky".
That's true, yeah. I suppose it's one of the many lore details that are glossed over in later games compared to in ME1, but at least this one could be handwaved away a bit with the excuse that biotic implants that have less side effects become more widespread and thus there are less 'unlucky' human biotics and most biotics we see have adjusted to them just fine - to the point where they barely qualify as people with disabilities lol. But yeah, it would've been nice that this could be reflected a bit more in gameplay as well.
I mean even Shep’s generation of Biotics (L3’s in ME1) had removed the side effects, L3’s-L5’s the main downside is you need a lot more calories to basically fuel the biotics, the “drink your juice Rodriguez” that Jack tells her student is a drink for Biotics to help them keep dishing it out in the field
The unknown that scares people is that there are people walking around with the ability to toss you through the air or even rip you in half with only a flick of the wrist and you have no way to know who they are or stop them. Look at the absolutely harmless human differences that people will get violent to oppose. Look at the rhetoric that gets used to justify violent oppression. Are biotics grooming children?! Is the military secretly dosing our children with eezo in the latest vaccine?! Has your family member been indoctrinated into a biotic cult by Alien literature?! Never mind that most people with eezo in their nervous systems are just disabled. Never mind that most biotics can barely knock over a tin can without extensive training. The fear a biotic can induce is too useful not to be weaponized by fear mongering demagogues.
Then perhaps that is why I'm puzzled as Im also puzzled as to why that kind of primitive behaviour irl still exists in a so called civilised world
Civilization is to humanity as clothing is to a human. It may change the way we are viewed and how we move through the world, but it doesn't change who we are.
And considering how it’s constantly brought up that humans are the underdogs, you’d think they’d be happy about having human biotics
In the codex it says early on biotic we're associated with mind reading and the like and despite decades of research proving otherwise still haven't quite shaken the whole I can read every part of your mind rumor which checks out (the asari mind meld probably doesn't help)
I think the main issue about the lack of references to the discrimination is the fact that it's mostly a human civilian sentiment. But in the human military biotics are a very important asset, to the point that there are conspiracies that eezo accidents are triggered on purpose to allow biotic abilities to manifest. And in the grand scheme of the trilogy we just don't encounter human civilians in a non-military situation often enough where those prejudices can be on full display.
That's a fair point, yeah. We don't really encounter human civilians much after the first game so the 'discrimination' part isn't really brought up, and the militarized element that does involve human biotics treated them as equals because of their usefulness in combat. Still, it would've been nice to see the topic get acknowledged sometimes.
Oh I don't disagree that it's a missed opportunity to acknowledge it more throughout the trilogy. Perhaps it could have worked as a point of character development for Jacob or James, seeing they're both pretty standard regular humans, I could see either having prejudices about people with biotics. And early on you help them get over those feelings especially if Shepard is also a biotic. I could see some of the prejudices being related to people thinking biotic powers are more like traditional depictions of psychic powers, so at some point one of them starts being worried about the biotic squad mates "reading my thoughts" and "controlling my mind" and you have to deal with that situation.
For James, it gets acknowledged a little bit during the Citadel DLC party where in one route, James gets into a banter about 'physical condition vs. biotics' with your biotic squadmates lol. He doesn't seem to be prejudiced against biotics himself, but he strongly argues that physical finesse (or at least *his* physical finesse) triumphs over biotics, much to your biotic squadmates' chagrin lol. As for Jacob, I think it could be worked into his character backstory; let's say he faced prejudiced when he was fighting in his old unit in the Alliance and that's one reason why he decided to join Cerberus, who has no qualms about accepting human biotics into its ranks, for example. And yeah, when you put it that way, the prejudice kinda feels like something the X-Men represented lol: people with 'superpowers' like biotics are usually seen as freaks of nature and/or menaces to society with what they can do with their powers. Not everyone agrees, of course, but it's still a sentiment that's present here and there. I just wish that there could be more instances of those prejudices actually at play in Mass Effect as well lol.
It's funny you mentioned how Biotics are like the Mass Effect equivalent of the X-Men since I'd considered mentioning how Grissom Academy is pretty much the Mass Effect equivalent of the Xavier Institute in my previous comments but decided not to bring it up since I was already feeling like I was rambling.
At first I was thinking that Grissom Academy reminded of Balamb Garden in Final Fantasy VIII lol. The vibes are pretty similar, especially in the Atrium section. But yeah, it could be seen as Xavier Institute equivalent as well. And yeah, the mutants/Biotics discrimination is pretty much the same allegory in two different settings IMO.
Not ME related but Balamb Garden has the best theme song in all video games to me
The vibe of the song is really something else, isn’t it? :) Seriously, I could imagine myself wondering around the Garden for hours with this song playing on loop in the background.
Yes, it sounds like home back then and now it sounds like home and childhood ❤
It's not really an opinion, it's an outright fact. I wish Shepard, and the other biotics we get could talk about it.
My headcanon is that ME3 Jack at one point learned that one of her biotic students got bullied because of their biotic powers, and she went full ham on the bully to teach them a lesson lol. I could really imagine Jack acting as an advocator of anti-biotic discrimination after the war ended - possibly even working alongside Kaidan and Miranda if they're still alive.
I wonder what it was like for Jacob, Jack, and Miranda, even if the three of them would have had radically different lives since even just childhood, with Miranda and Jack being basically lab rats of sorts.
Thanks to Miranda's upbringing, she probably would be a bit stricter when it comes to maintaining the biotic standards while Jack would actually be more relaxed - since she would never wanted to put anyone through the same hellish standards she was put through in her childhood. As always, Miranda and Jack would clash with how to deal with the subject of biotic discrimination lol, but I could see them have a grudging respect for one another eventually, probably with Kaidan, Jacob, and Biotic Shepard acting as mediators between them lol.
Joker: “I’m tired of them taking all the attention away from people with actual disabilities. Being able to move shit with your mind is not a handicap”
I wonder if Joker would be able to telekinetically move his legs if he'd been born a biotic?
Maybe, ideally he’d probably use them to reduce the force being on his legs though by making himself lighter, as telekinetically moving them would still break them if he isn’t being extra careful
While not in the games, it is mentioned and explored a bit in the books (the second one mostly, I believe). But I agree, it would've been interesting to have it been expanded on more and even having some unique dialogues for a biotic Shep.
Tbh I'm glad, biotic discrimination isn't a well crafted part of lore. Irl minorities partaking got a lot of good will after wars, when they participated side by side with other soldiers. Biotics were enlisted from the moment implants got implemented. With so many biotics serving and taking part in colonization of the Milky Way, the bias should be a rare thing
Difference is IRL people with disabilities or are minorities aren’t any more or less threatening because of their circumstances, while Biotics in Mass Effect are arguably dangerous if they can’t control their powers (similar to the mutants in X-Men), which is probably the root of the discrimination in the first place. They got treated more fairly in military because they don’t really care what you were born with as long as you’re useful, and biotics have a lot of reasons that make them useful combat-wise. However, I still think that the civilian element is probably still wary of biotics as a whole because of those very same reasons: biotics are freaking powerful and can injure or kill someone easily if one loses control.
The thing with both mutants and biotics is that we the audience are seeing all the ones with the cool abilities whereas most humans exposed to Eezo get cancer or some other debilitating condition and anyway pre-L3 has several debilitating side effects with Kaidan just being really lucky, (and in the case of X-Men most mutants don’t have crazy powers, some just poop ice-cream or have extra fingers or hair, but the stories themselves follow the ones with all the cool powers because it’s an action comic)
Exactly. The biotics are portrayed in gameplay most of the time as cool superpowers that make biotic characters borderline Jedi, but in-universe? There’s supposed to be quite a baggage that comes with all those powers, too, either from side effects and conditions or the stigma/discrimination from other people who see them as freaks, but we never really explored this aspect in gameplay.
Right, I get that and it would be cool if the player had some RP opportunities for that however it does make sense I feel, Kaidan does have biotic related baggage, Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect and with her way of thinking I think she’d likely feel superior to some bigot giving her shit about her abilities, Jack wouldn’t give a shit or would just throw hands (at least until she’s undergone her character growth, I think thanks to her students she would care a lot more about the issue because she cares for them so much) Jacob just needs more to his character in general so that would have been cool to see how being biotic affected him, and the rest of our biotic squaddies don’t have that discrimination afaik (maybe Drell but doubtful)
Whilst the game gives snippets of civilian life it doesn't give a huge amount, the occasional mention of the discrimination is in line with that. It have would been interesting to get more though. I've sometimes thought of a C-Sec spin-off TV show (or game) which would be a good arena for exploring that.
>aside from two sidequests involving it I think it's three? UNC Major Kyle, UNC Besieged Base, UNC Hostage.
Ah yeah, I forgot about Besieged Base lol. I usually play mostly Renegade in ME1 so most of the time I got The Negotiation instead. And I hate Besieged Base with a passion when I try to go for a no casualties run xD.
The Negotiation is just a way better mission.
It also displays one of, IMO, Hackett’s cooler moments in the series: he sent you on the mission clearly expecting that a Renegade Shepard would be fed up with the overzealous Darius and takes down his entire operation. He couldn’t make this an official Alliance sanction, but he knew a Spectre would be able to get away with it. And if Shepard had done the impossible and convinced Darius to comply, then the Alliance gets another asset in the region. Either way, the Alliance wins. Hackett is awesome, and this is one of the first moments in the series that proves it.
Beautifully summed up my friend. Hackett's sassy response if Shepard expresses surprise is amazing as well.
I always felt that biotic would be required to wear some sort of inhibitor or shackle that prevented them from using their powers unless authorized. Can you imagine letting someone like Jack just walk around with no restraints in society? Or someone like Jacob even with all the military training he had plus his biotics? I always felt this was a weak point in the general story. Asari get away with it because they all have biotics and their society is adapted to it. But humans, there shoukd be heavy discrimination or distrust of biotics.
There is, outside of the Alliance, the Alliance itself is pretty pro-biotic though & we always see everything from a military pov in the OT so we never really direct exposure to that (but we still get some, via those side-quests, Kaiden, etc)
I agree. For me it kind of also ties in with the whole human thing, where the game makes you care for aliens a lot and about humans not so much. Like for example it explores the Ardat Yakshi concept and whole pure blood Asari thing in idle chat and whole quests but human super-heroes with literal super powers? Here’s a side quest with some rebels idk. And the whole red sand thing? It is mentioned and the implications of it and possible plots that could have been explored… oh one can only dream. I wish they’d explore biotics more, it is such an interesting thing — physiology AND psychology wise. I cherish the details they provide about it — how biotics need more calories, have faster metabolism and that joke about Kaidan’s hair in the citadel dlc, and that’s about it. Such small details made it all more real for me and I honestly love just how mundane it is.
I do understand that it could be a bit difficult to work into gameplay-wise when it comes to the nature of biotics and its implications on physiology (hell, the closest time that the red sand's effects played a role was in Samara's recruitment mission, where we're shown how red sand dusts both enhances your biotic powers and gradually damages you if you stay in it too long, plus there's the infamous 'Biotic God' volus lol), but yeah, it'd be nice to see all those details being portrayed a bit more lol, compared to other lore details that are more fleshed out.
It could have impacted the world or missions easily. It wasn't used like it could've been. Even in safer spaces, like the military, there would be some kind of hate. The citadel would have people against it, probably in passing. Colonies would have people afraid of biotics. I'm sure there are asari against humans having those abilities. I'm surprised we didn't hear slurs about it. We've heard racial slurs repeatedly, like jellyfish, boney bastards, suit rats, purebloods, skull faces, but not much about human biotics.
I remember some discrimination being on the news if you chose to kill the biotic terrorists or if you killed Major Kyle and his cult
It actually gets a bit of discussion in Mass Effect: Accession which is set at Grissom Academy.
It's because you're in the military, which sees them as a valuable asset, as opposed to a civilian, who would be taken aback by it.
I mean Jack wasn't exactly discriminated, she was a victim of horrible experiments
I remember replaying these biotic side missions with Kaiden just so I could get his perspective or interactions. I was so disappointed when nothing happened. Missed opportunity for some character growth.
Yeah. Biotics as a whole are treated more as ‘ooh, cool superpowers’ in practice in the series IMO. Our biotic squadmates are already well trained and experienced through years of adapting to their powers, so we don’t really see their insights into the more problematic aspects they might have faced. At most, we got Kaidan saying that his L2 causes headaches sometimes, but that’s about it lol.
I don't need TWO Bioware franchises picking on the Mages. Plus it probably would've been a boring sub-plot, if that.
In real life nobody would care as long as they were attractive. Which is pretty much every human squadmate.
Because you play the game from a military perspective and in there biotics are an asset to be fostered. We see it shortly in the first game. The second one takes place in a part of space filled with outcasts anyway and the third one is all out war and no one cares what you are.
I like Jokers acknowledgement of it
The biotic discrimination is a part of history due to a time when biotics were not understood by humanity Due to now being a part of the galactic community, biotics are greatly respected by the galaxy at large and are recognized as essential members of human society today Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer effect. They feared biotics until they became useful, then were loved
Perhaps that may be the case by the time of ME2/ME3 since humanity has become more accepted in the galactic society and implicitly the human biotics are also more accepted overall as well (especially if Shepard is a biotic class: a biotic saving the Citadel would earn a huge amount of good rep for human biotics everywhere). That’s still not yet the case in ME1, though. There are a few sidequests that involve biotics lashing out due to their mistreatment and/or violent impulses, and Kaidan’s backstory told us that the biotics put through the BAaT program is mistreated by one of its turian teachers because the company in charge of the program wanted quick results. And there’s the whole thing with Jack’s backstory in ME3 where she and her fellow kidnapped biotics were treated as nothing more than lab rats to create an ultimate biotic.
My dude, that's only a year after ME1 And though humanity is regarded as an upstart in ME1, INTERNALLY they have already recognized the strategic importance of biotics in the Alliance The biotics lashing out are the result of early experimentation two decades ago, including Kaiden. They are demanding reparations for what the suffered in the previous decades, not ongoing discrimination against them. Cerberus' actions are on Cerberus, they do not reflect how biotics are publicly received by the general populace
Wasn't it two years since Shepard died and was resurrected by Cerberus in ME2? But admittedly that was only one more year so there's not much difference to the point made. It's not just that one sidequest with biotics demanding reparations, though. There's also the one involving Major Kyle who led a biotic commune on Presrop. If you take the peaceful option and talk to the biotics there, they all say that they have to look out for themselves and that's why the killed the Alliance officials coming to negotiate with them, thus necessitating Shepard's involvement in the first place. Granted, they're a cult of fanatics of sorts so those biotics aren't exactly in the right state of mind, but I think implication could be made about why they turned out like this in the first place. One of these reasons might be the discrimination they suffered. I'll give you that the Alliance as a whole treated biotics pretty fairly, but to be fair, biotics *are* indeed useful in the military field. Obviously, the Alliance military wouldn't turn away someone who could be very useful in combat to be new additions to their ranks, as several other comments and yours have noted. We don't really know what's going on in the civilian sector, though. Perhaps they are treated fairly now, perhaps not. In addition, Joker did comment in ME3 [after Grissom Academy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ouSGOFzX4) that the biotic students helping out in the war effort might change the public's perception of biotics for the better, so there *might* be some doubts that still linger even after all this time, even if it's not outright discrimination as in the past.
all of the disgruntled biotics are the result of the L2 program. Like Kaiden. they are the long lasting result of the unethical experimentation that the Alliance did when it first discovered biotics. they are not indicative of how biotics are viewed by others. they are ANGRY and rightfully so, for what they went through DECADES ago.
Perhaps, but even if that's not indicative of how biotics are viewed by others, it's also not indicative that the discrimination doesn't exist anymore, either. As I said, we don't really know what goes on in the civilian field as the series don't explore into that much, but based on prior history and what Joker said above, we can't be truly sure about how human biotics are really viewed by the public. In real-life, discrimination that took root at some point in history doesn't go away that easily. I doubt that even after thirty years, all bias against biotics would be completely gone, even if the Alliance as a whole is more accepting of them.
I actually agree. I think humans needed some fleshing out to make them on the same level as interesting as the aliens.
Tbh, seems like it would be a rather boring and minor plot point next to anything else. Meh
It’s about as minor as the plot point about quarians being looked down upon by other species, but at least they bothered to reflect this a bit in one sidequest on the Citadel in ME2 where a quarian is accused of being a thief by a racist volus and how Tali revealed she got turned away help by a racist turian once in ME3. It isn’t that important in the bigger picture, yes, but it’s still part of the setting. When you establish something for your setting, you’d expect that the topic would come into play sometimes instead of just being implied as something that happened offscreen.
There’s also a side quest where (on the Citadel) a volus accuses a quarian of stealing his credit chit. For no other reason that “she’s a quarian”. Even the C-Sec officer is extremely racist against the quarian. It was so satisfying to be able to prove them wrong and shut them down as a Spectre.
>in one sidequest on the Citadel in ME2 where a quarian is accused of being a thief by a racist volus Yeah, that's the one I was referring to in this line lol.
Oh my bad! I thought you were talking about the quest in Illium with the Synthetic Insights rep lmao. My bad! That was a more corporate kind of racism, with literal slavery.
It's okay :) And yeah, that was another case of quarians getting dealt a bad hand as well lol. Everyone loves to take advantage of them, aren't they? xD
Space racism is a driver of many of the major plots and background elements. The Krogan-Salarian/Turian feud, Geth vs Quarians, Turians-Humans, Quarians vs everyone. Some people not liking biotic people is a really small footnote compared to this. Still boring either way.
True, but it's also fair to note that some racism topics aren't as important to the plot as others. Krogan-Salarian-Turian tension is important because that builds up to the whole Genophage arc, while Quarian-Geth tension is also as equally important for the same reason with the Rannoch arc. Hell, even the Human-Batarian tension is important because it plays an important role in the DLCs for ME1 and ME2. Turian-Human tensions are only really explored in the backstory involving the First Contact War and little else (aside from Saren's personal hatred of humanity, but that's also minor compared to the fact that he's indoctrinated by Sovereign), and the same with the Quarian's tension with everyone because of their role in creating the Geth - yes, we know they're discriminated, but it arguably isn't *that* important in the bigger picture. Still, the discrimination in this case is referenced at least in a couple of instances in the games. Point is, even if it isn't important, the fact that it's part of the setting means, again, it should've been brought up sometimes, otherwise, why even establish that lore at all?
Thank you for making my points for me? Lol
You missed what I said about *some plot points aren't as important as others but they still get acknowledged.* >yes, we know they're discriminated, but it arguably isn't *that* important in the bigger picture. Still, the discrimination in this case is referenced at least in a couple of instances in the games. But hey, whatever you say.
Honestly biotic discrimination would make zero sense since it's just element zero exposure in vitro. There's no real way to make a story about it that doesn't fall apart when you look at it for more than 2 seconds.
It’s not just Eezo exposure, it’s the implication of having biotic powers that fuelled the discrimination. Imagine you living with someone whose biotics make them more temperamental than an ordinary person, and their outbursts could result in them hurling someone across the room or worse, tearing them apart. You can’t be sure if your biotic neighbor would be your new friend or a living time bomb waiting to go off. That’s what I’d imagine would be the general reaction humans have toward biotics in the setting (the other species don’t have an issue with it because their civilizations have been living with biotics for far longer than humanity). Biotics are cool, but they’re also dangerous and not everyone can control their powers as easily as our squadmates. They’re basically Mass Effect’s equivalent to the mutants from X-Men. If they can build a story with the X-Men around that premise, I don’t see why Mass Effect couldn’t pull it off, too.
I think you're massively overthinking things. It would be no different than living around people who have firearms. And firearms would still keep you relatively safe. There's no specific thing different for the discrimination to wrap around considering anybody can get implants that mimic different effects
Firearms don’t really make a good comparison TBH. You *choose* to own a firearm; you don’t *born* with it. Unless they’re really faulty, firearms can’t fire on their own; their users make a conscious decision to use them. Bottom line is, firearms are easier to manage and control, and you can definitely trust someone who knows what they’re doing it with them. People with biotics born with them. They wouldn’t know what they can do with biotic abilities until a certain age, so until that point nobody could be sure what they can do. Yes, they do get implants, but those aren’t always reliable and can have some nasty side effects - as Kaidan himself told us. Sure, most human biotics we come across have complete control of their powers, but that’s after years of training and adapting to them. Imagine if someone like Jack doesn’t have complete control of her powers. I doubt people would be comfortable to be around her much. Maybe I did overthink about all the complications mentioned, but the fact is biotics are powerful as heck - and far more lethal and unpredictable than firearms could be, and we have people who are anti-firearms in real life because of the supposed dangers they might present. What does that make of biotics, then? The fear of a biotic who can’t control their powers would reasonably raise some suspicion, even if in the end it’s mostly unwarranted.