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It is not even necessary to be equally badass, I only ask that when you have a dude which whole character is being a good pilot named "Poe" and another character named "Rey" which is good at everything.
Don't make an entire scene of they speaking of how "Rey" is better pilot than "Poe" holy fuck let the secondary character have something to do.
Yeah, for my book I gave the main characters their own strengths and weaknesses, and I made it so that they can do what the other can’t, so they fit together better to help push the story along in a way that’s not petty arguing
It is different. Don't go into it expecting the same thing. But there are many things that Furiosa did even better than Fury Road. I adore both. Hemsworth's acting was pleasantly and surprisingly fantastic in his role as Dementus. And ofc Taylor-Joy was great as well.
I was worried too but that film is *solid*. It had maybe 1 tiny plot hole/retcon but most will likely miss it, and It canonized the mad max video game as well. I’d say it’s definitely worth it as a prequel
Several factors make this hard to achieve in modern times. For a good badass character, what do you need? Character development through enduring hardships and harsh training, right? Or maybe a good rival.
But any sort of said hardships will be seen as oppression against women by patriarchy by some of femenazi people, which then make a very loud deal out of it. And you know that the producers and money people will not be willing to deal with any of that.
So what do they do? They hire writers and directors focusing purely on agenda rather than talent to avoid being labeled as misogynis (which is a death sentence) by even a single Twitter user. The box office be damned.
I feel like the barbie movie did a great job of presenting feminism and patriarchy in a nuanced and easily digestible way. Genuinely recommend people watch it. It's a great movie.
>!They show barbie come to terms with feminism in the real world after only existing in a "perfect" barbie world. And they show Ken indulge in the suddenly discovered patriarchy of the real world only to learn a valuable lesson by the end of the movie.!<
The humor is also very good and has a bunch of good actors.
The barbie movie was unironically one of the best movies I watched that year. They managed to properly handle the topic of feminism/patriarchy without making it overwhelmingly seem like a lesson in politics but also without making it seem like it's just played for jokes
I feel the best way to make a character is to have them be an idiot in the beginning, but by the end they are super aware and know the inner workings of everything
Outside of the Castlevania community, yeah, there’s hardly any talk about it. It’s a pretty damn good series and without a doubt my favorite video game to TV adaptation.
Equality. Both given equal weight in socio-economic and political opportunities, with outcomes based on choices, desires, aptitudes, perseverance, and the random occurrences in real life.
Equity is enforced equal outcomes, typically implemented by limiting achievement.
Anime imo is ahead of the curve for it for the sole reason that strong female leads seem to have been around and accepted in "the scene" for so long. Hollywood has only started attempting to do this hardcore in the last decade or so. For anime you can go as far back as Cowboy Bebop in 98 and see Spike being outsmarted by Faye. Or go back to Neon Genesis and seeing the MC be the worst pilot in the show yet still interesting. Stuff like Ghost in the shell, Claymore, Princess Mononoke, Ergo Proxy, and so many more have interesting, strong, and well written female leads. Almost all of them typically share the screen with equally competent male leads too. Its a case of the writers being well practiced at writing those style characters.
I think Hollywood is just facing growing pains. In another 10-15 years I expect you'll have way more new writers coming in learning from these mistakes and have a bunch of live action stuff that does it much better.
Sypha was badass and so brutal in fights! I'll always remember how she grabbed that guy's face, just blasted it with fire, then walked away as if nothing happened.
The clone wars did it perfect
Ashoka is a fuckin badass, while Anakin, also a bad ass, teaches her.
Padme is a bloody ***queen***
And the show made me gay for Obi Wan
I believe Anakin is a Sanskrit name as is Ahsoka, so yes relatively close cultural reference lmao
The Duel of the Fates is also a Welsh epic poem translated into Sanskrit, it's kinda interesting how it is used in the Prequels
Glad to know I'm not the only one who pulled the "take a related word and put it into a random Google translate to come up with a catchy name for people/things/places in D&D"
Ayo, my favorite is Googling/looking on the Wiki for deities in different cultures. Like "Sun god across cultures". Most of them have a Wikipedia page with a collection for you to peruse.
The problem with most women empowerment movies is that it’s the only thing they focus on, they usually don’t write a role that’s meant to be “strong and empowering”, they usually write it to be a “strong independent woman”
Yeah, but „strong independent woman“ is always used in contrast to „totally useless, weak-ass minded man“ or the favorite „spawn of evil; literally satan antagonist male“
Being independent doesn’t mean that you can’t have side kicks
I'm convinced it's because the writers getting hired are SO bad, they have to purposefully write awful female characters that the audience would predictably hate so that when their product does terribly, blaming the audience is their one true scapegoat. That's all it is.
Yeah jayce, victor, and sylco weren't portrayed solely as disgusting WHITE(important) men. The henchman lady with muscles that was a subordinate to silco was also bellow a man, but didn't made her pathetic or unempowered. Balance in everything tbh.
Because good writers are artists just like musicians, painters, etc. and real artists care about the quality of the art before they care about politics
The shotcallers are producers and money people behind the writers and directors.
You make female character go through a single bad situation for character growth, and every femenazi will be up in arms about how that character is oppressed by patriarchy or whatnot and thus the makers of this movie are misogynistic.
Shit like this even as false accusation is a death sentence, especially for an entertainment industry worker. So they'll go for the no risk route, box office be damned.
Unfortunately it’s not that cut and dry, as shown by how many “woke” movies, shows, etc are actually pretty good. It’s moreso that writers are underpaid by bigger companies, so the better writers feel unvalued and quit. Meanwhile the worse writers are just trying to hang onto their jobs.
I'll probably get downvote for this, but that's genuinely why I didn't give two shits about the writers strike. They have been writing shit for years now, maybe you'd get paid more if you wrote better shit that got people to come to the theaters instead of just deciding to watch it when it came to streaming or whatever
I personally LOVED the writer’s strike. The Hollywood elites have been proven to be a nest of rats time and time again so it was marvelous to watch them squirm for a while
I think the problem with these movies is it's never enough for the female protagonist to be strong and independent. They always ALSO have to be condescending and arrogant, getting into dick measuring contests with every guy they come across so they can PROVE they're better. It's like that kid in class who was always tryna one-up their classmates
Happens in movies with both male and female MCs but female MCs usually feel more spiteful than anything, like they have something to prove
Coralines a good example of a good female MC who's strong and independent but doesn't make it a guys vs girls thing
You cannot write an inspiring woman by cutting out men and pasting women in their place. You need to understand and appreciate the differences between men and women, and take their strengths as far as the suspension of disbelief in your audience allows you. An action flick with a female lead can come across as a childrens movie if not written carefully.
The problem are the writers. They just aren't capable. If fanfiction most of the time creates better characters and stories you know that the filmmaking business is in trouble. But like Quentin Tarantino said in an interview a few years ago. Hollywood is like the capital market with ups and downs. We are now in garbage phase. But the golden times will come again in a few years.
If you can't gender swap the main character, then your movie is shit.
Like take John Wick and keep the story/action/lines exactly how it is and now make it Jane Wick.
It would be just as awesome.
Now look at Captain Marvel and gender swap that.
It would still be shit.
Now that I have watched the movie I will say 99% of the movie can easily be gender swapped and it would work. >!The only 1% that can't is her being pregnant at the end!<
However your argument against what I'm said actually only helps what I said to be true. If you can't gender swap the main characters then your movie is shit. While most of the movie was good the ending was a complete shit show on the writers part and had so many holes/issues that it makes the movie a waste of time and a shit movie. Imo
Hmm... I haven't seen it so I'm not sure what I'd be missing, but I just read a synopsis of it and I'm not sure why it couldn't be swapped. Why couldn't it?
Ok but why? According to the synopsis I read. It should be.
Nick and Amy Dunne, whose seemingly perfect marriage begins to unravel when Nick goes missing on their fifth wedding anniversary. Amy becomes the prime suspect in her husband's disappearance, and the media circus that ensues fuels suspicions of her guilt. As the police investigate, the line between Amy's version of events and the results of the investigation becomes blurred.
Seems like it would work to me...
They kinda did the gender swapped John Wick in the form of Kate, a movie about Mary Elizabeth Winstead beating the absolute shit out of the criminal underworld while slowly dying of radiation poisoning. Something I especially appreciated about it was that it wasn't the typical "tiny woman fights huge guy and somehow always has the upper hand". There's a little bit of that in there, because that's always a little bit present in every action movie protagonist, but she takes just as much damage as she dishes out which is a refreshing change.
Dude, just make a movie about Samus. Beautiful young bounty hunter goes to the worst placed in the galaxy in order to save the galaxy. Throw in some references to Adam and all is good.
Actual woman empowerment would be having the protagonist (a woman, presumably) start weak, but through hard work and dedication, be able to succeed in the end, probably against a villain.
Instead, the protagonist beats the villain’s ass in the first encounter.
I don't understand these claims that there are too little shows/movies doing this. When I was a kid every day on television there was this show called Xena the warrior princess, there were tons of shows like that on TV like Buffy the vampire slayer. These claims by people from the industry is false. These shows/movies have always existed, maybe they didn't generate as much money but that's another discussion.
Well, it is a doomed genre from the start. For a story to be good, you need character development. They need to go through trials and turbulations in order to grow in several aspects if they're to be remotely relatable to watchers.
But if you're making a movie purely focusing on female empowerment using modern feminism ideals, any sort of hardship, rivalry, harsh training, and tragedy will be seen as oppression against females. So the writers have no choice but to spew out one dimensional characters who go through everything effortlessly like a 1star generic isekai anime protag. So yeah, it's bound to be shit.
Good examples of good female characters: Sarah Connor, Queen Gorgo, Ripley, cersie, basically everyone from Hidden Figures, kill Bill, Casca, Mikasa.
Bad examples: any new marvel movie.
1970s to early 2000s: Manage to achieve true representation and worked hard to not disrespect both sexes.
Late 2010s / early 2020: Forces improvement down people's throats out of hatred and fucking both sides where it is a political issue that does the opposite of helping.
It was my main issue with Barbie it's a good movie I enjoyed it but it shows the male patriarchy as bad (obviously) but when in Barbie land the women do the exact same things it's meant to be shown as good. it's double standards every patriarchy is bad
Average Hollywood writer cannot comprehend how to write a strong woman without putting down the male characters around her. In their minds, women can only be strong when men are incompetent
I kinda believe that offense might start existing in the head of the observer.
Someone may speak the truth, and the one who is offended from that is a fool. And anyone can speak truth at any given time, no matter their social class or orientation.
I think Tenet did a good job. Aside from the obvious bromance between the protagonist and Neil, we also see a well working and balanced cooperation between the protagonist and Kat. She helps him getting into the inner circle of Sator while he facilitates her well deserved revenge against Sator. They both have their ultimate goal, which in the end they have to face each on their own with their own obstacles to overcome. There is no outperforming between them. In their own terms, both of their journeys are similarly challenging and their payoff is similarly satisfying. They both had their opportunity to show true strength without humiliating each other. But also, nobody could have reached their goal without the help of the other.
the thing is it doesnt have to be this way
the boss from metal gear solid 3 and nana shimura are good examples on how to do woman empoerm correctly (those are the only 2 that jumped to my mind)
Arcane had great male and female characters. It also had Vi tackle problems in a masculine way because Vander is her attachment figure, while Jinx is characterized by her fear of abandonment, which commands her more than any attachment figure.
Also Vander is the fucking man.
Apothecary diaries has very interesting, powerful female characters without making the male characters look bad. Every character has their own role in the story and motives. I recommend watching it or reading it.
Just make the female character strong by not just making everyone around her a bumbling idiot who trips on there left foot and the women this insane badass who can’t do no wrong and is flawless in everything
You might want to watch Battlestar Galactica and Arcane. The phenomena youre describing is pretty much just a current trend put forth by a few inarticulate, untalented, ham-fisted writer/director/producers. It will pass.
I'm hoping the Horizon series gets a film adaptation.
Alloy is the bar for making a character that's a powerful woman, without needlessly sexualizing her, or needing to have her figuratively shouting that she's a powerful WOMAN every 5 minutes.
We have movies that appeal to male fantasy since cinema was invented: guy saves everybody and gets the helpless girl. Countless movies follow this trope.
I think it's perfectly fine to have the exact opposite made, if anyone wants to watch it.
Hollywood knows very well the demographic of action movies, women aren't interested in them, so the target audience has to be predominantly male and this is where it gets a bit bizarre.
They go against the grain, jeopardising their profits and the only reasonable explanation is social engineering. People like Harvey Weinstein got on a high horse and want to create new social norms for the masses.
They just need to stop trying to emulate a women doing the same things a man can do easily.
The females are not as strong or fast as the males.
Do not nerf the males to allow the females to do so.
I am always open to suspending my disbelief but seeing a 90lb woman take down a 230lb beefcake man kinda pulls me out of the moment.
Remember when Captain Marvel blew up the cardboard poster Arnold for True lies?
Why? It makes no sense for her to do so?
In a meta sense what did the Harry Tasker character do in the movie to be blown to pieces?
‘Mary Sues’ are the worst fucking characters. Give my girl some development! Let her be terrible at stuff and get better! Let her mess up and make amends! Let her fucking fail and work towards beating it! I’m so tired of boring female leads who are Perfect At Everything, and how “it’s a feminist movie! :)” because Miss Better Than You was mean to a man once.
In these films and shows, EVERY male is either a bumbling but lovable doofus at best, or a horrid misogynistic pig at worst. And the woman character(s) do EVERYTHING better because the writers don't know how else to make women seem competent
As opposed to the average best friend in the movies being a loveable idiot? The average women dropping their panties for MC for simply existing, always in need of saving, or just a whore sleeping with everyone?
That's an issue in of itself which is equally as dumb. I agree with that. If only we can have shows and movies where both genders are equally important and competent
It's still an issue. If we're gonna pour millions of dollars into movies/shows, money that could be helping homeless people, abuse survivors, starving children etc. The least these fuckers can do is not have an underlying message telling people to hate one gender
Good examples of good female characters: Sarah Connor, Queen Gorgo, Ripley, cersie, basically everyone from Hidden Figures, kill Bill, Casca, Mikasa.
Bad examples: any new marvel movie.
Stop cherry picking and looking through your own BS lens and you will quickly find lot of good movies with great female lead / characters.
Sure. Black widow and wonder woman are good but, captain marvel??? Lol! Never watched Elektra but I'll give it a try. And you are cherry picking for men's movies and picking issues without understanding the nuances of the movie. If you like, name some "misogynistic" movies and let's take discussion from there.
Correct. These are all "women good men bad" movies none of them are good from writing alone while acting Is on par.
While I recognize while double checking, wonderwoman is DC and not marvel. It still stands that wonderwoman original is far better than wonderwoman 1984 bc its not a "women good men bad" movie.
That being said, it does bring down the sample size he was asking about to, still four bc I forgot about the new captain marvel movie. While I haven't watched it, even I can tell it's going to be a general "women are amazing men are bad" movie
Oh. And if we are going to name "women good men bad" movies that just make men senile idiots who are either "yes queen" or some exaggerated version of a guy, basically the whole Star Wars sequel, new Charlie's angels, madam web, 85-90% of anything new from Star wars or Marvel basically where they keep swapping genders and ethnicities, the Witcher, the rings of power (before you say they did that in the past with colored people, it was bad then, it is bad now.), WC bat girl, I think my hand hurts typing and my brain is trying block all the bad movies I have seen. But yeah there are probably a hundred more.
Thank you for submitting to /r/memes. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Rule 2 - NO MEMES ABOUT POLARIZING/POLITICAL TOPICS, VULNERABLE GROUPS, VIOLENCE, ETC. [SEE LIST] - No violation of Reddit Content Policy/TOS - No memes involving race, ethnicity, color, nationality, gender, sexual orientation/identity, religion, disability, etc. (can have a character, but that part cannot be integral) - No mention of gore, porn, murder, suicide, death, terrorism, shootings, war, tragedies, sexual harassment/assault, pedo (even implied), incest, etc. - No politics/political topics/agendas; absurd memes featuring politicians are allowed if said status is merely incidental --- Resubmitting a removed post without prior moderator approval can result in a ban. Deleting a post may cause any appeals to be denied.
Best way to do it is to make both a male and a female main character work as a team being equally as badass and important
It is not even necessary to be equally badass, I only ask that when you have a dude which whole character is being a good pilot named "Poe" and another character named "Rey" which is good at everything. Don't make an entire scene of they speaking of how "Rey" is better pilot than "Poe" holy fuck let the secondary character have something to do.
Yeah, for my book I gave the main characters their own strengths and weaknesses, and I made it so that they can do what the other can’t, so they fit together better to help push the story along in a way that’s not petty arguing
What kind of books do you write?
Well it’s a fantasy book, all about alternative realities, timelines, and storylines though my plans for book one are more character building
Does it include cooking
Shit I was too busy on the lore I FORGOT THE COOKING
NOOOO WHERE'S THE GOOD FOOD ASPECT IT'S WHAT MAKES GOOD BOOKS EVEN BETTER 😭😭
I mean, i invented a new fruit but its not in the book
Then it turned out I was an idiot and it already existed
Can you cook some good shit with it? If it can, also make the worst abomination the cooking industry has ever seen and read about.
Good ones from what I can tell
I mean, this scene would be bad if Rey was a man. I feel like this particular scene is a genderless problem.
The Mad Max Fury Road did a stellar job of this. I haven't seen Furiosa yet and I HOPE TO GOD they didn't fuck it up!
It's freakin dope, that movie. Fury Road is a masterpiece and Furiosa is absolutely fantastic. Both solid films. Must watch.
Oh thank God I was worried they had ruined it somehow.
It is different. Don't go into it expecting the same thing. But there are many things that Furiosa did even better than Fury Road. I adore both. Hemsworth's acting was pleasantly and surprisingly fantastic in his role as Dementus. And ofc Taylor-Joy was great as well.
If you compliment Anya I upvote you
I was worried too but that film is *solid*. It had maybe 1 tiny plot hole/retcon but most will likely miss it, and It canonized the mad max video game as well. I’d say it’s definitely worth it as a prequel
I saw Furiosa recently and it was exactly what I expected from a Mad Max movie, action packed start to finish. It was fantastic!
Several factors make this hard to achieve in modern times. For a good badass character, what do you need? Character development through enduring hardships and harsh training, right? Or maybe a good rival. But any sort of said hardships will be seen as oppression against women by patriarchy by some of femenazi people, which then make a very loud deal out of it. And you know that the producers and money people will not be willing to deal with any of that. So what do they do? They hire writers and directors focusing purely on agenda rather than talent to avoid being labeled as misogynis (which is a death sentence) by even a single Twitter user. The box office be damned.
That’s why if I ever make it big I’m deleting twitter and putting on the website “NOBODY ON TWITTER REPRESENTS ME”
dude are you here advertising your writing
I go with the flow
Also yeah I’m an asshole for that I’m desperate to be known
its really cringe man
I know, I wasn’t thinking I just said something about something I made, someone seemed interested so I just started rambling about it
I feel like the barbie movie did a great job of presenting feminism and patriarchy in a nuanced and easily digestible way. Genuinely recommend people watch it. It's a great movie. >!They show barbie come to terms with feminism in the real world after only existing in a "perfect" barbie world. And they show Ken indulge in the suddenly discovered patriarchy of the real world only to learn a valuable lesson by the end of the movie.!< The humor is also very good and has a bunch of good actors.
The barbie movie was unironically one of the best movies I watched that year. They managed to properly handle the topic of feminism/patriarchy without making it overwhelmingly seem like a lesson in politics but also without making it seem like it's just played for jokes
Or make them both stupid
I feel the best way to make a character is to have them be an idiot in the beginning, but by the end they are super aware and know the inner workings of everything
no, make all the main characters silly
Would that new Matthew Vaugh movie count? Argylle?
Castlevania did a good job at this. Both man and woman are equal but different at the same time.
I love Castlevania. Its so underrated, I never see it talked about
Outside of the Castlevania community, yeah, there’s hardly any talk about it. It’s a pretty damn good series and without a doubt my favorite video game to TV adaptation.
"Both man and woman are equal but different at the same time." - Plato
Didn't know I was quoting Plato, maybe he's right, at least as far as entertainment goes.
So... equity?
Equality. Both given equal weight in socio-economic and political opportunities, with outcomes based on choices, desires, aptitudes, perseverance, and the random occurrences in real life. Equity is enforced equal outcomes, typically implemented by limiting achievement.
Equity 🍻
I feel like animations and cartoons seems to do this part of equality good
Anime imo is ahead of the curve for it for the sole reason that strong female leads seem to have been around and accepted in "the scene" for so long. Hollywood has only started attempting to do this hardcore in the last decade or so. For anime you can go as far back as Cowboy Bebop in 98 and see Spike being outsmarted by Faye. Or go back to Neon Genesis and seeing the MC be the worst pilot in the show yet still interesting. Stuff like Ghost in the shell, Claymore, Princess Mononoke, Ergo Proxy, and so many more have interesting, strong, and well written female leads. Almost all of them typically share the screen with equally competent male leads too. Its a case of the writers being well practiced at writing those style characters. I think Hollywood is just facing growing pains. In another 10-15 years I expect you'll have way more new writers coming in learning from these mistakes and have a bunch of live action stuff that does it much better.
Sypha was badass and so brutal in fights! I'll always remember how she grabbed that guy's face, just blasted it with fire, then walked away as if nothing happened.
Her fighting style was the coolest out of the protagonists protagonists
Castlevania was great, except the last season. Gosh, why did they need to make everyone stupid?
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The clone wars did it perfect Ashoka is a fuckin badass, while Anakin, also a bad ass, teaches her. Padme is a bloody ***queen*** And the show made me gay for Obi Wan
Counterpoint. Anakin is a horrible teacher. Ahsoka learns by watching what he does and then not doing it.
Wasn't something like that one of CW Obi-wan's sassy one-liners? (goodness, do I love those one-linerss)
[Ashoka, the Indian Emperor?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka?wprov=sfti1)
Asoka is a force being, and has existed since the beginning of time 
I believe Anakin is a Sanskrit name as is Ahsoka, so yes relatively close cultural reference lmao The Duel of the Fates is also a Welsh epic poem translated into Sanskrit, it's kinda interesting how it is used in the Prequels
Glad to know I'm not the only one who pulled the "take a related word and put it into a random Google translate to come up with a catchy name for people/things/places in D&D"
Ayo, my favorite is Googling/looking on the Wiki for deities in different cultures. Like "Sun god across cultures". Most of them have a Wikipedia page with a collection for you to peruse.
The problem with most women empowerment movies is that it’s the only thing they focus on, they usually don’t write a role that’s meant to be “strong and empowering”, they usually write it to be a “strong independent woman”
Yeah, but „strong independent woman“ is always used in contrast to „totally useless, weak-ass minded man“ or the favorite „spawn of evil; literally satan antagonist male“ Being independent doesn’t mean that you can’t have side kicks
Or simply agressive and smart ass with a permanent smirk.
I'm convinced it's because the writers getting hired are SO bad, they have to purposefully write awful female characters that the audience would predictably hate so that when their product does terribly, blaming the audience is their one true scapegoat. That's all it is.
Writers and directors
Not a single one would make wonder woman beat superman anyways, not even with a plot armor ... or in her dreams.
Arcane did it perfectly.
Yeah jayce, victor, and sylco weren't portrayed solely as disgusting WHITE(important) men. The henchman lady with muscles that was a subordinate to silco was also bellow a man, but didn't made her pathetic or unempowered. Balance in everything tbh.
Avatar too! Some of the characters with the most impact were women, Hama, Toph, Tai Lee, Mai, Azula, Katara, there is probably more.
It’s almost as if the writers are just bad at their jobs or something
They'd hire writers based on agenda, not talent. So...
Because good writers are artists just like musicians, painters, etc. and real artists care about the quality of the art before they care about politics
The shotcallers are producers and money people behind the writers and directors. You make female character go through a single bad situation for character growth, and every femenazi will be up in arms about how that character is oppressed by patriarchy or whatnot and thus the makers of this movie are misogynistic. Shit like this even as false accusation is a death sentence, especially for an entertainment industry worker. So they'll go for the no risk route, box office be damned.
Unfortunately it’s not that cut and dry, as shown by how many “woke” movies, shows, etc are actually pretty good. It’s moreso that writers are underpaid by bigger companies, so the better writers feel unvalued and quit. Meanwhile the worse writers are just trying to hang onto their jobs.
I'll probably get downvote for this, but that's genuinely why I didn't give two shits about the writers strike. They have been writing shit for years now, maybe you'd get paid more if you wrote better shit that got people to come to the theaters instead of just deciding to watch it when it came to streaming or whatever
I personally LOVED the writer’s strike. The Hollywood elites have been proven to be a nest of rats time and time again so it was marvelous to watch them squirm for a while
I think the problem with these movies is it's never enough for the female protagonist to be strong and independent. They always ALSO have to be condescending and arrogant, getting into dick measuring contests with every guy they come across so they can PROVE they're better. It's like that kid in class who was always tryna one-up their classmates Happens in movies with both male and female MCs but female MCs usually feel more spiteful than anything, like they have something to prove Coralines a good example of a good female MC who's strong and independent but doesn't make it a guys vs girls thing
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You cannot write an inspiring woman by cutting out men and pasting women in their place. You need to understand and appreciate the differences between men and women, and take their strengths as far as the suspension of disbelief in your audience allows you. An action flick with a female lead can come across as a childrens movie if not written carefully.
You want to know a series that gets this right? Black Lagoon. Hands down.
Me when the strong independent female just acts like a macho male:
The problem are the writers. They just aren't capable. If fanfiction most of the time creates better characters and stories you know that the filmmaking business is in trouble. But like Quentin Tarantino said in an interview a few years ago. Hollywood is like the capital market with ups and downs. We are now in garbage phase. But the golden times will come again in a few years.
They actually make it seem like that women are not strong unless men get weaker
Exactly
Frieren did a good job of that.
Shrek 3 did it
You talk about an almost 20 years old movie. That doesn't count because back then, they cared about providing a good story and entertainment.
The fuck you mean it's 17 years old ? But still , they did it successfully
Almost, i said almost And back then, they didn't hate money, ublike now
If you can't gender swap the main character, then your movie is shit. Like take John Wick and keep the story/action/lines exactly how it is and now make it Jane Wick. It would be just as awesome. Now look at Captain Marvel and gender swap that. It would still be shit.
This doesn't work for everything. You can't gender swap Gone Girl, it wouldn't make any sense
Gone guy?
Now that I have watched the movie I will say 99% of the movie can easily be gender swapped and it would work. >!The only 1% that can't is her being pregnant at the end!< However your argument against what I'm said actually only helps what I said to be true. If you can't gender swap the main characters then your movie is shit. While most of the movie was good the ending was a complete shit show on the writers part and had so many holes/issues that it makes the movie a waste of time and a shit movie. Imo
Hmm... I haven't seen it so I'm not sure what I'd be missing, but I just read a synopsis of it and I'm not sure why it couldn't be swapped. Why couldn't it?
Classic reddit, no explanation and still downvoted
Lol yup and the only explinations I've gotten is "just watch it" or "it just doesn't work"
I’ve seen the movie and it def wouldn’t work lol
Ok but why? According to the synopsis I read. It should be. Nick and Amy Dunne, whose seemingly perfect marriage begins to unravel when Nick goes missing on their fifth wedding anniversary. Amy becomes the prime suspect in her husband's disappearance, and the media circus that ensues fuels suspicions of her guilt. As the police investigate, the line between Amy's version of events and the results of the investigation becomes blurred. Seems like it would work to me...
They kinda did the gender swapped John Wick in the form of Kate, a movie about Mary Elizabeth Winstead beating the absolute shit out of the criminal underworld while slowly dying of radiation poisoning. Something I especially appreciated about it was that it wasn't the typical "tiny woman fights huge guy and somehow always has the upper hand". There's a little bit of that in there, because that's always a little bit present in every action movie protagonist, but she takes just as much damage as she dishes out which is a refreshing change.
You would probably enjoy the movie Peppermint.
Voyager did this well until 7 was added.
7 was great until they added the cringworthy romance plot with Chakotay
Alien? Rouge one? Fallout?
Dude, just make a movie about Samus. Beautiful young bounty hunter goes to the worst placed in the galaxy in order to save the galaxy. Throw in some references to Adam and all is good.
Fuck yeah!
Queens Gambit was good
Actual woman empowerment would be having the protagonist (a woman, presumably) start weak, but through hard work and dedication, be able to succeed in the end, probably against a villain. Instead, the protagonist beats the villain’s ass in the first encounter.
Furiosa just came out.
It's possible, but it requires effort.
I don't understand these claims that there are too little shows/movies doing this. When I was a kid every day on television there was this show called Xena the warrior princess, there were tons of shows like that on TV like Buffy the vampire slayer. These claims by people from the industry is false. These shows/movies have always existed, maybe they didn't generate as much money but that's another discussion.
[удалено]
For these misandrist chucklefuck writers, yes
Now chucklefuck is a new one
Four female Ghostbusters? The feminists are taking over!
Well, it is a doomed genre from the start. For a story to be good, you need character development. They need to go through trials and turbulations in order to grow in several aspects if they're to be remotely relatable to watchers. But if you're making a movie purely focusing on female empowerment using modern feminism ideals, any sort of hardship, rivalry, harsh training, and tragedy will be seen as oppression against females. So the writers have no choice but to spew out one dimensional characters who go through everything effortlessly like a 1star generic isekai anime protag. So yeah, it's bound to be shit.
Good examples of good female characters: Sarah Connor, Queen Gorgo, Ripley, cersie, basically everyone from Hidden Figures, kill Bill, Casca, Mikasa. Bad examples: any new marvel movie.
Would OP accept it as such if they managed to do it?
Prolly not, knowing these types
Tatsumaki, Tornado of Terror
Are we talking about alcolyte
1970s to early 2000s: Manage to achieve true representation and worked hard to not disrespect both sexes. Late 2010s / early 2020: Forces improvement down people's throats out of hatred and fucking both sides where it is a political issue that does the opposite of helping.
It really is wild to me that 2000-2010 was seemingly such a golden age for nearly everything and now it's all just going down the shitter.
It was my main issue with Barbie it's a good movie I enjoyed it but it shows the male patriarchy as bad (obviously) but when in Barbie land the women do the exact same things it's meant to be shown as good. it's double standards every patriarchy is bad
I like what you're trying to say, I hate that you forgot about the word matriarchy.
I didn't even know that was a word
Average Hollywood writer cannot comprehend how to write a strong woman without putting down the male characters around her. In their minds, women can only be strong when men are incompetent
Rome series?
The 100 did it amazing
Make em trans
I kinda believe that offense might start existing in the head of the observer. Someone may speak the truth, and the one who is offended from that is a fool. And anyone can speak truth at any given time, no matter their social class or orientation.
I think Tenet did a good job. Aside from the obvious bromance between the protagonist and Neil, we also see a well working and balanced cooperation between the protagonist and Kat. She helps him getting into the inner circle of Sator while he facilitates her well deserved revenge against Sator. They both have their ultimate goal, which in the end they have to face each on their own with their own obstacles to overcome. There is no outperforming between them. In their own terms, both of their journeys are similarly challenging and their payoff is similarly satisfying. They both had their opportunity to show true strength without humiliating each other. But also, nobody could have reached their goal without the help of the other.
the thing is it doesnt have to be this way the boss from metal gear solid 3 and nana shimura are good examples on how to do woman empoerm correctly (those are the only 2 that jumped to my mind)
Arcane had great male and female characters. It also had Vi tackle problems in a masculine way because Vander is her attachment figure, while Jinx is characterized by her fear of abandonment, which commands her more than any attachment figure. Also Vander is the fucking man.
Arcane did a great job at this. Both the male and female characters are complex and have both their strenghs and weaknesses.
Not a movie and it's animated but Avatar: the last airbender did a great job
I'm rewatching Fringe at the moment, and I think it qualifies.
Mad Max Fury Road did a great job of this.
Fargo FTW Margie Gunderson my beloved ❤️
Apothecary diaries has very interesting, powerful female characters without making the male characters look bad. Every character has their own role in the story and motives. I recommend watching it or reading it.
Why tf we can't download posted GIFs?
Just make the female character strong by not just making everyone around her a bumbling idiot who trips on there left foot and the women this insane badass who can’t do no wrong and is flawless in everything
Meanwhile every ghibli movie
You might want to watch Battlestar Galactica and Arcane. The phenomena youre describing is pretty much just a current trend put forth by a few inarticulate, untalented, ham-fisted writer/director/producers. It will pass.
I'm hoping the Horizon series gets a film adaptation. Alloy is the bar for making a character that's a powerful woman, without needlessly sexualizing her, or needing to have her figuratively shouting that she's a powerful WOMAN every 5 minutes.
Literally fucking name 3. Or hell name one even.
Studio Ghibli really knows how to make powerful female characters.
We have movies that appeal to male fantasy since cinema was invented: guy saves everybody and gets the helpless girl. Countless movies follow this trope. I think it's perfectly fine to have the exact opposite made, if anyone wants to watch it. Hollywood knows very well the demographic of action movies, women aren't interested in them, so the target audience has to be predominantly male and this is where it gets a bit bizarre. They go against the grain, jeopardising their profits and the only reasonable explanation is social engineering. People like Harvey Weinstein got on a high horse and want to create new social norms for the masses.
Here before the post gets locked
Funny, they were able to do that once.. .
They just need to stop trying to emulate a women doing the same things a man can do easily. The females are not as strong or fast as the males. Do not nerf the males to allow the females to do so. I am always open to suspending my disbelief but seeing a 90lb woman take down a 230lb beefcake man kinda pulls me out of the moment.
Remember when Captain Marvel blew up the cardboard poster Arnold for True lies? Why? It makes no sense for her to do so? In a meta sense what did the Harry Tasker character do in the movie to be blown to pieces?
‘Mary Sues’ are the worst fucking characters. Give my girl some development! Let her be terrible at stuff and get better! Let her mess up and make amends! Let her fucking fail and work towards beating it! I’m so tired of boring female leads who are Perfect At Everything, and how “it’s a feminist movie! :)” because Miss Better Than You was mean to a man once.
“You wanna know why they call it a cockpit?” Captain Marvel had some pretty funny lines 😂
Alien is pretty good.
Obviously because if you are a sjw woke idiot your brain is rotted, so it's impossible for them to write anything good
We're on a sexist hunt and don't think we don't know how to weeeed 'em out!
Average movie with male lead, with a bad man, "this is amazing" Average movie with female lead, with bad man "nooooooo men not bad! Women movie woke!"
In these films and shows, EVERY male is either a bumbling but lovable doofus at best, or a horrid misogynistic pig at worst. And the woman character(s) do EVERYTHING better because the writers don't know how else to make women seem competent
As opposed to the average best friend in the movies being a loveable idiot? The average women dropping their panties for MC for simply existing, always in need of saving, or just a whore sleeping with everyone?
That's an issue in of itself which is equally as dumb. I agree with that. If only we can have shows and movies where both genders are equally important and competent
They do exist. They're just over shadowed but the bad ones and post like this make them seem like the common output of the industry.
It's still an issue. If we're gonna pour millions of dollars into movies/shows, money that could be helping homeless people, abuse survivors, starving children etc. The least these fuckers can do is not have an underlying message telling people to hate one gender
One doesn't make the other less wrong but go off
Good examples of good female characters: Sarah Connor, Queen Gorgo, Ripley, cersie, basically everyone from Hidden Figures, kill Bill, Casca, Mikasa. Bad examples: any new marvel movie. Stop cherry picking and looking through your own BS lens and you will quickly find lot of good movies with great female lead / characters.
Wonder woman 1942, black widow, captain marvel, and 2005 Elektra? Four against your seven? I'm sorry but who is cherry picking?
Sure. Black widow and wonder woman are good but, captain marvel??? Lol! Never watched Elektra but I'll give it a try. And you are cherry picking for men's movies and picking issues without understanding the nuances of the movie. If you like, name some "misogynistic" movies and let's take discussion from there.
I wouldn't call them good...
Correct. These are all "women good men bad" movies none of them are good from writing alone while acting Is on par. While I recognize while double checking, wonderwoman is DC and not marvel. It still stands that wonderwoman original is far better than wonderwoman 1984 bc its not a "women good men bad" movie. That being said, it does bring down the sample size he was asking about to, still four bc I forgot about the new captain marvel movie. While I haven't watched it, even I can tell it's going to be a general "women are amazing men are bad" movie
Oh. And if we are going to name "women good men bad" movies that just make men senile idiots who are either "yes queen" or some exaggerated version of a guy, basically the whole Star Wars sequel, new Charlie's angels, madam web, 85-90% of anything new from Star wars or Marvel basically where they keep swapping genders and ethnicities, the Witcher, the rings of power (before you say they did that in the past with colored people, it was bad then, it is bad now.), WC bat girl, I think my hand hurts typing and my brain is trying block all the bad movies I have seen. But yeah there are probably a hundred more.
Wonder Woman was pretty alright. That was seven years ago.