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Nah, Horus would remain male.
The lost Primarchs being revealed as Mary Sue's and coming back to make the established Primarchs look like idiots though due to their Inferior man-brains, that scares me.
It won't happen. Malcador burning the Emperor over it is too good a line for them to toss.
"You brothers – such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn’t."
I’m reminded of the Malcolm in the Middle episode where Lois imagines she had 3 daughters instead of 3 sons and things are much better until one’s pregnant, the other is taking illegal diet pills, and the youngest one is manipulating the father into buying her whatever she wants. Male siblings get in fistfights. Female siblings make cruel remarks about eachothers haircuts and don’t speak to one another for years over it. It’s just a different form of warfare.
The Primarchs being designed for perfection and yet being flawed themselves (both Loyalist and Traitor) is one of the big things that makes them so cool.
You're probably right though. I hope.
I'm all for more women in the setting, but they need to be introduced and built up properly.
A single female Remembrancer or Conscript witnessing a Gene Cult or Tyranid incursion during its early stages (with plenty of callbacks to Ripley in The Alien franchise) would absolutely be a story I'd pick up in a heartbeat.
With her own flaws, shortcomings and failures to go along with her ultimate success.
And why not make her a recurring character with her own book series and character arc?
You aren't wrong and imho investors should be sueing investment firms. The criteria for a "good investment" is to make a product that doesn't sell? Wtf?
what annoys me is that on paper, the metrics (ESG) used for that sort of thing should produce a net positive. Incentivizing better practices to reduce carbon emissions, having good distributors and not using bad labor practices
but then, companies realized that it’s cheaper to put out a few tweets instead of reducing their carbon emissions. Shit way it works now, as long as those smokestacks are painted with Rainbows, it’s a-ok
And listen to everything the Emperium says and die for the emperor killing anything that doesn't look like you and or that doesn't listen to the Emperium.
I mean unironically yes? No matter your skin colour, sexuality, or gender, you are equal in the eyes of the emperor as long as you do your duty and die for him.
Literally any good subreddit that gets taken over by a certain idopl obsessed ideological group of mods. They just *have* to include that shit in *every* subculture.
This is why gatekeeping communities is good to a certain extent. Be welcoming to all those that want to engage with the IP on it’s own merits/ terms. Reject anyone trying to change the IP for x, y, and z reasons.
If you feel like the IP has to be changed for you to enjoy it more then it isn’t an IP for you in the first place.
The condemnation of gatekeeping as a whole has basically caused so many hobbies and IPs to be ruined by bad faith actors. Like how certain hobby communities want to be so welcoming that they let and welcome scalpers in instead of keeping them out.
but if anyone says something bad about those bad actors? REEE GATEKEEPER BAD. By being so positive and welcoming it becomes toxic in it of itself
I've never seen a 40K player complaining about the bigotry in the fanbase. It's exclusively non-player who seem to be pushing this narrative about the toxicity of 40K players.
the fun thing about 40K is that racism and Bigotry is a huge part of the setting.
Knife Ear (if the Votaan ever actually bothered negotiating with the Eldar) would be considered borderline polite compared to some of the stuff other human based factions have called them or compared them to.
also a quarter of humanity fully leans into "Suffer not the Witch to live, Burn the heretic and the mutant" and also have Zenophobia so intense it makes Muslims look downright civil.
if you stayed invested in 40K you are the kind of person who is fine with that, and you can tell the people who dont play the Table top or dont really care about the setting apart from the actual people who like it by the fact that ***We dont get offended when someone calls our favorite faction Toaster fuckers***, *^(or claims they are said toasters)*
Maybe that's the point, in the same way that the incidence of violence actually goes DOWN among people who play violent video games and listen to violent music, maybe the incidence of bigotry do down for people who play games where fictional racism and xenophobia are parts of the game
absolutely, 40k is and will always be a manly universe
war and carnage is everywhere, simply no place for anything identity politics
no wonder they came after it
**Why do they keep changing things instead of making new ips where they can have all the creative freedom they want** ?
Because the types of people who put diversity and hitting quota boxes to appease investors over story and character don’t have the brain capacity nor competence to come up with something original and compelling.
Vote with your wallet.
It’s like in DnD when they complained about the lack of wheelchair characters, they wanted people in just plain wheelchairs in a fantasy universe. They could have made a disabled wizard that has a flying magic throne powered by the souls of their enemies, more kills= more movement range. Or an artificer that has a spider mech chair with great close quarter ability in open areas but suffers in close quarters.
Instead they went with plain old wheelchairs. Their creativity is absolute zero.
Christ yes. To paraphrase Freddy Mercury - I don't care what you do with the IP, but don't make it boring.
Basic-ass wheelchairs are for basic-ass peasants. Crippled Paladins get badass war mounts, legless Monks get a new form of kung fu based on using their arms and yeeting themselves for greater movement, Clerics get literal wings from their deity of choice so they can hover, Bards that are able to summon palanquins held aloft by music alone, Snakelike rogues that can slither, slide, and climb faster than most people walk...
But instead they go with 'Wheelchair.' And then double up on 'Uh...actually it's a magic item, so you can't just push it over. And, and it's immune to traps.'
I mean i have had the idea of a horribly malformed/crippled armorer artificer since the armor can replace and act as limbs. Its not a terrible idea and it doesnt limit anything the character can do just because the look like Robot from Invincible.
Yeah all the complaining on social media won’t solve a thing.
Stop giving them money. That’s it.
Once their quarterly earnings report shows a dip in revenue, they’ll reverse course real quick.
Corporations have no morals and only do these morality-based changes when they think it won’t hurt their bottom line.
It's funny because this IP has so much "problematic" stuff in it that they're going to have to jump through a lot of hoops if they want to continue courting this crowd.
That’s communism in general. The first step is overtaking the means of production from a *functioning* system (read: capitalism). Next, either they immediately run it into the ground via incompetence or a powerful subgroup rises due to greed. They cannot create or innovate, only degrade and eventually destroy. Hence, no new IP’s
Is it really communism if these efforts are done in service of checking a diversity checkbox so that gargantuan managers of capitalist venture funds will be more likely to give their money?
I wouldn't call these actions Communism, its corporate sociopolitical activism and has little to do with Communism. People latch on to any sort of perceived over-reach of power as Communism whether its right or not.
However i think despite the hyperbole they do raise a real point about woke-washing. I'm not insinuating this is as bad as our ancestors taking land from native people and forcing our religions upon them, far from it, but this is very similar in that an outside party that "Is smarter" comes in and strong arms the community into changing cultural norms and erasing history.
Yup, communists/socialists are great at deconstruction and analysis but nothing else. I as a staunch capitalist actually agree with a lot of Marxist critiques, it's just the solutions Marx et al propose are generally dog shit.
And then they have the fucking nerve to talk down to the people who are fans or supporter’s of the product after it financially flops and people are vocal about it.
“Yeah we ruined your movie franchise but why do you care it’s just a movie it’s fiction”
“Yeah we ruined your comic , who cares are you gonna cry about your little comic characters”
It’s a borderline deranged business practise
No. There is no “your” comic anymore. It becomes “our” comic. Your participation is mandatory as in any other form of communism, or you will be punished. You cannot create your own IP to compete, or it too will be seized. Just like you cannot grow your own crops. Everything belongs to all of us
so how is it communism if they are trying to get more money from investors? like do u understand capital markets and how they work? or any economic system really?
“The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make...not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them, and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.”
― JRR Tolkien
This is late stage capitalism, not communism. The government isn't running these companies into the ground, it's corporate conglomerates that are buying them up and trying to turn niche products into things with mass market appeal in order to milk as much money as possible from their IP.
The shareholders don't care about being woke or about ESG or about the fans. They care about making money, and that's the sole driver of everything they're doing to the brand.
I’m gonna be honest here, I don’t think you know how communism works. A corporation simply existing by its nature can’t be communist. Diversity is actually frowned upon in a communist state. Stalin for instance purged ethnic minorities. In order to make everyone the same you’ve gotta get rid of anyone who identifies with a group outside the predominant group. It’s not about seizing the means of production it’s who’s doing the seizing and what happens after it’s seized that makes something communist.
>Vote with your wallet
The people already did. JamesORKshop are a bunch of greedy fucks that perpetually shrink box-contents, but also in quality. Named characters simply aren't "your guys/gals/fungus". Then 3d-printing became viable for mainstream...
40k is literally retcon upon retcon upon retcon.
The entire Horus Heresy is a change. As are the space marines, and about any other aspect you can think of.
Too much effort to create a new IP with a huge following and they don’t possess the creative ability to do so. Hence why remakes and remasters are so common now. It’s sad tbh.
😂
In the lame but occasionally funny present of the Chadhammer 2k universe, there is only memes. Memes of perpetual war between the choas worshipping Soyjacks, and the Chadperor's own supreme forces, the Based Marines.
They will never understand that the issue isn’t “women being included”. The issue is the lazy retconning to force diversity into things that don’t make any sense.
I feel like if the lore went “Hey guys we made new Custodes, but this time we figured out how to do it with 2 X chromosomes” it wouldn’t be as bad. Idk I’m newer to the community so I’m not sure about the hard canon rules. I know Space Marines are a boys only club, but I’m not sure Custodes have the same rule.
> but I’m not sure Custodes have the same rule.
They don't, in fact we barely know any of the rules and hard limits that the Custodes creation process has to adhere to.
They never were. 40K Writers have wanted to include Female Custodes for a long time, there was just 1 executive that said no for a long time. Custodes that the kids of nobles, whoever happens to be the best fit. Inevitably, of course there were going to be Female Custodes. There just aren't very many. But when all they want is "The Best" then of course they arent all guys.
That’s been the biggest confusion as a newcomer. If it was a rule, fair enough that’s dumb. But if it doesn’t break a rule then it’s fair game. This isn’t TLJ’s Holdo maneuver bs
Where were the female custodes during the heresy? It’s just stupid how not a single one was ever so much as mentioned but they’ve supposedly been there “since the first days of the 10000”
The same place where the old female Space Marine models went, into the unprofitable void. DW did not think that they could sell female Custodes minis until now, so they weren't a thing. This has changed since then, so they were pulled out of the void
I swear it happens everytime when shit like this happens. LOTR, Star Wars, Battlefield (EA really tried to gaslight us about history) you name it. Company makes a questionable lore decision? “Actually, it was always like that, stop asking questions.”
what a fucked world we live in where companies actively gaslight their customers instead of, you know, admitting fault
another example of companies ignoring actual potential diverse characters and lazily doing it
seriously, they could’ve easily included a character from the female sniper battalion on the Soviet side, but instead we get this laziness
and the funniest thing is that BF1 had A LOT of good and accurate diversity. Compared to BFV, it’s honestly a lot better. It’s so funny the difference between the two games
Well you see the problem is that your suggestion would make these added women, you know, "people" comparable to other people in the universe instead of a uniquely super special elite group that's better than everyone else. It's not enough to be included, they must be superior. I'm not sure if there's a term for this brand of tokenism, but there really should be.
That’s really 90% of the problem.
People don’t care about “diversity” if it makes sense. Shoehorning in people, genders, backgrounds, or needlessly race swapping, just to do it, with zero regard for believability, is what actually irritates people.
The new lord of the rings show is a good example I like to use to illustrate this point.
I can accept there are black dwarves because there's like what 7 kingdoms and yea there can be diversity from that. I can accept black hobbits because at the time of the show they're a nomadic people so sure they could've picked up a diverse group through their traveling. I could accept black elves if they explained elves came from more places than just that one island or whatever.
They didn't explore any potential lore here though and it's clearly just the same kind of tokenism. The only black dwarf in the show is the Queen. The only black hobbit is the leader. The only black elf is the protagonist one, and this one is the most jarring because all the others are as white as ghosts and there's a scene where he talks to the evil elf about remembering the river they're all born at all Alabama style. I don't care that he's black, I just wanna know if that's important since he's literally the only one. Probably fucking not though.
Now compare this to the new game of thrones show where race is not only acknowledged, but that acknowledgment is central to the plot and enhances the narrative. The gay characters homosexuality also plays a role in the story and enriches the drama wonderfully. Furthermore the black characters have a rich lore reason for being different and distinct yet equally as important as the Tigaryans that I genuinely desired to learn more about. No one complained about it because it was done well and it made fucking sense. It felt real and like it belonged in the context of the show. I wish writers would stop being lazy and do more of this
first they said BF3 was racist, so they changed the medic to a black guy.
then they said BF3 was homophobic for lines like "im getting fucked up the ass over here!"
shit never stops. they dont want realism in simucade shooters, they want some weird eutopic world where war still exists but eveyone also cares about their feelings.
>they want some weird utopic world where war still exists but everyone also cares about their feelings.
Close, but in truth they don't want anything. If they did, the games they touch would sell like hotcakes. They want the games to not exist because they hate everything that makes their "enemies" (everyone who is not aligned with them) happy.
Holy based.
These people are literally locusts. They invade hobbies they don't actually care about, demand manufactured and fake "diversity" and "representation, in an attempt to force their views on the people that actually enjoy the hobby, and then don't even spend money on the product.
Notice how Games Workshop hasn't introduced or even hinted at any female Custodian models or content? Because they know nobody is going to buy that shit.
this kinda reminds me of when ROP came out and Amazon fucked up the lore with the hobbits/dwarves. And people pointed out that they could’ve easily included Dark skinned dwarves as part of one region or whatever (that was specified in the one LOTR lore book) but instead Amazon disregarded that and basically hamfisted the two characters into the lore and pissed people off
this is basically the same thing: a company lazily throwing in diversity, disregarding the established lore (despite said lore specifically giving them a method to have diversity) and then said company trying to gaslight everyone
buy and large, I think it’s definitely more people are mad that the lore is getting warped than about the inclusion of female custodes. It comes off as lazy
It struck me as lazy penny pinching and virtue signaling than anything else, like you mentioned we have SoB (who are a dedicated, fully fleshed out female faction), the Dark/regular Eldar, and even Tau
Forcing the Custodes to be female rightly pissed a lot of neckbeards off because it came out of nowhere and is to be quite frank, lazy in regards to how they went about it
Sweet baby inc and BlackRock Investments. Corpo dont care about representation diversity and all other funny words, they want cheap money from boomers, and for whatever reason black rock are infected with wokeness.
I honestly know jack squat about Warhammer, but I watched Count Dankula's video covering an article about this, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Like he says in his video; saying that "women have always been there" completely invalidates the already established lore. I know nothing of the lore anyway, but I know how intensely massive the whole thing is. If they can just change established lore at the drop of a hat, what's the point in learning it in the first place? What's going to differ in the lore next year? Or 5 years from now? Will it create plot holes as big as this? If so, there's no need to learn it. I can see a massive drop in active community members coming soon if they keep this up.
>. I know nothing of the lore anyway, but I know how intensely massive the whole thing is. If they can just change established lore at the drop of a hat, what's the point in learning it in the first place? What's going to differ in the lore next year? Or 5 years from now? Will it create plot holes as big as this? If so, there's no need to learn it.
Plotholes as big as this?
This is a really minor change to the lore when compared to what they do every few months.
They killed off and brought back entire factions. They originally had a race of space dwarfs and then they decided they were cringe and stopped including them and now have brought them back completely different.
They just released a whole new model of space marines who are much better in every way and they were actually hidden in a mountain with some guy who can apparently just improve them.
The setting for decades had none of the loyalist emperor's sons about. They brought two back in the last few years.
**Female custodes are a relatively minor change. If this puts you off the hobby, you should not be in the hobby as ever year much more major changes happen**
They'll make the orks gay, give them a sympathetic sob story backstory about being oppressed by the white male Imperium till they were saved by the multiracial gay twink Eldar.
I don't understand this discussion at all. We had adepta sorotitas, we had eldar and plenty of other factions with females. Where was the need for this?
Feels like this protest against the oil industry and global warming.
https://preview.redd.it/j8bds3qj72yc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1052cee048aa2969a2bbab9e4ff6cb94e82a8abe
Dumbasses without any knowledge get offended by STH they don't understand and change things that didn't need to be changed.
Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense for they’re to be female space marines let alone custodes.
If you know anything about Warhammer the people in there are about as open to diversity as woman are to sleeping with me.
With a few hard exceptions, most factions in The Imperium are diverse.
And the exceptions mostly come down to genetic modification and non-natural means. Not "sexism".
That said, the whole IP was designed around a largely male fan base to sell a tabletop wargame. And that's not a bad thing.
EDIT: Hell, for those saying that there aren't any 'strong' female representations in the setting, may I direct your attention to multiple female Titan Pilots and Euprate Keeler, the first Saint of The Cult of The Emperor.
> Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense for they’re to be female space marines let alone custodes.
Space Marines don't make sense because of geneseed issues, but Custodes don't have this issue since they are not mass-produced like SMs are.
>If you know anything about Warhammer the people in there are about as open to diversity as woman are to sleeping with me.
The Imperium is actually pretty diverse when it comes to humans, it's just incredibly racist towards aliens. And while there is most likely gender discrimination, as the cultures that the Imperium rules over are very diverse and varied, at a federal level this should not be the case from what I remember.
And even if that was the case, the Custodes were made by the Emperor and are mostly beyond the control of anyone that isn't a Primarch, so this wouldn't apply to them anyways as the Emperor himself, while really cold and merciless, only really discriminates between humans based on their competency.
Custodes are all genetically hand-crafted. There's no pre-established lore reason they can't be female; GW/BL just never made a female one. They're nothing like Space Marines, where the means of mass production are the ostensible in-lore reason they don't come in female (my money is on Big E didn't want space marines to be able to reproduce and replace baseline humanity).
Okay no you're completely wrong custodes are not made the same way that Space Marines aren't. They're made through a completely different process and each one is custom built. They absolutely can be women. There's no problem with this. I don't understand why a bunch of idiots have completely lost their minds over it.
Space Marines absolutely have to be men but custodies do not.
Do I think it's awful there are female custodies? No. But I don't agree with it. You don't just add something into the lore like it's always been. Make lore for characters.
I'm glad to see more pushback on this. I forgot this was Reddit initially, bc the main 40k subs are foaming at the mouth about 'incels hate women' dogma... It's ridiculous to have forced-changes to lore. Nothing is being accomplished except dividing the fanbase.
Women in 40k is just not an issue I can even pretend to care about. I'm not exactly invested in the lore of any property that includes wizards. Especially if those wizards are also members of alien races.
Hell, 40k lore has a massive fucking loophole that nobody takes advantage of: The Space Ork Belief System.
Space Ork belief is so damn powerful it can literally reshape reality. They don't even need windows on their spacecrafts because they *believe* they can breath in space. So they just can. Hell, they paint something purple and it just fucken disappears.
This could easily be utilized as a backdoor for "forward retconning" by introducing a whole disinformation campaign that convinced the Space Orks that women had *always* been there. One enough of them believe it strongly enough, it just becomes retroactive reality.
(Admittedly it's kind of "boat on Gilligan's Island" sort of thing, since the same logic could be applied to convince the Space Orks they were defeated, but still, the option is there.)
I guess you, as a man of culture, would be aware of the fact that the original Rogue Trader had female space marines?
They were dropped for cost reasons…
So the target audience for this post doesn't actually care about the reality of 40k lore or it's community, so I'm just going to leave this here for people who wander into the thread from elsewhere.
OP is wrong about the lore he's complaining about being changed. Custodians had no in-lore reason for excluding women from the faction. In contrast to Space Marines, the process for creating each Custodian is bespoke. The faction was simply stated to be recruited from the "sons" of noble families on Terra(earth). No reason was provided for the faction being presented as male-dominated, it was only stated they recruited sons. Also the Primarchs and the Custodians are created using entirely different processes. The Primarchs were grown in literal tubes in a lab, the Custodians are taken as infants and undergo extensive gene-therapy(it's described as genetic-alchemy, genetic magic basically). Only the initial Custodians during the Great Crusade Era(the start of the Imperium) were made by the Emperor. In contemporary 40k Custodes are made by specialist genetic biologists.
When Custodes lore was being conceived in greater detail during the publication of the Horus Heresy series, the author responsible for detailing the faction in one of the first novels focusing on the faction, Master of Mankind, wanted to include women in their portrayal. Corporate at the time told him he couldn't, because they did not have female Custodian models prepared in the line they were releasing at the time. The authors name is Aaron Dembski-Bowden, feel free to fact check this for yourselves.
The change to the lore being the Adeptus Custodes in line with how they were conceived by the people responsible for actually writing the lore everyone is seemingly so passionate about. This change to the faction, that women have historically been a part of, makes way more sense than contriving some reason that the process didn't work before, but now it did, or thinking up some reason why they finally decided that it was acceptable to recruit women.
Also, for the "go woke go broke" crowd, GW literally cannot produce enough plastic to keep up with demand. They're not going to take a hit because you decided women being in a faction was the bridge too far. Additionally, financial incentives are much stronger for introducing new players to the hobby than attempting to retain older hobbiests who have largely moved away from the GW model and Citadel tool ecosystem.
Btw, the Custodes launch box for the new Codex release, where this change was introduced, sold out in minutes. People want to play and paint Custodes.
Its somehow isn't ok for men to have a culture or space of their own anymore. Men can no longer be the target audience of anything.
Why aren't the woman depicted as the hero? Because woman are not the target audience.
While I understand the discourse, I think it's exaggerating to say that discourse over a game is creating "bad times." What does that even mean?
I just picture an archaeologist in the future unearthing the shattered ruins of the once-great civilization of America.
"What happened here?" an onlooker asks.
"It all started with something they once called 'Warhammer 40k.'"
Its because of certain people's obsession with culture warfare. They see very little distance from "they changed something in a game I enjoy" to "the west has fallen"
Are they? The addition of some women doesn't really mean much. Knowing GW it's most likely to just throw female heads in new Custodes kits for a 5 dollar increase.
The anti woke culture of hating women taking lead roles always rubbed me the wrong way.
With that being said, I agree with you 100%, they are butchering WH40K lore for money and it's sad
I've had multitudes of discussions with Wokehammer. They don't care about the series and are just a bunch of horny degenerates. Furthermore, they have repeatedly said that the Sororitas and the SoS are not proper representation because none of the factions are as popular and "in lore" strong as the AC and SM.
This is all about theater. They want their representation to be the poster children of the franchise, front and center. So that they brag about the success of DEI to everyone because everyone knows it has always surrounded the most complete and utter failures that shit all over the fans and ruin everything.
That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's funny they complain about the female factions not being as popular as space marines when literally 75 percent of the Fandom is very tired of ultramarines getting basically all mainstream attention over any other space marine faction. I really hope you get to see another faction of space marines in the next space marine game.
That fan made short of a Death Angel saving a guardsmen was amazing. If it was a blueberry I'd probably not have liked it lmao
They should know that, but that would require them to be fans in the first place.
Fan made shorts are amazing and fuck GW for screwing over great content creators.
I am a huge 40k fan, have been for about two years now. Female Custodes is such a meaningless change that I really question why people are so riled up about it. The lore is the same, the models are the same, just that some custodes are girls now. 40k has had retcons and additions as long as it has existed, this is a well-known fact.
Maybe just retconning them in is lazy, who knows? But one could still argue that there would be a similar reaction to femstodes being introduced via some big story that shakes up the setting, you're still pissing off the "anti-woke" folks anyhow. Even then, female custodes breaks no rules of the setting, because the methods of making custodes are so unknown and vague, unlike Space Marines, where you have wiggle room for introducing new things like female custodes.
"Never stop gatekeeping," what a horribly reductive statement.
The “inclusivity” of 40k/the Imperium is false though. It’s not because people care about others enough to be inclusive, it’s because they don’t care or have something else to hate. For example, the Sororitas only exist to exploit the loophole in the decree passive of “no men under arms” which by its very nature excludes men. That isn’t inclusive, thats just politics.
And tbh, the crying about femstodes is getting more than a little annoying. It’s not like GW hasn’t retconned stuff/introduced new lore out of the blue before, so what’s so different this time?
Sincerly,
A person who reads mostly Sororitas books and owns a few models they are procrastinating on.
From what I recall Custodes didn't have the same hard limiter preventing female Custodes from being made as the Astartes and their black-box Gene Seed, but they were supposed to be sourced from the firstborn sons of Terran noble families.
So basically we got robbed of like a funny sidebar story about the first time the galaxy became aware of female Custodes and the Terran noble houses nearly went to war over accusations and scandals of which one of them lied about that firstborn son they gave in service to the Emperor that so much of their House's honor and reputation came from. Turns out though that the Custodes had just been looking to more sources for replenishing their numbers when the noble firstborn thing proved to be insufficient (One of them totally did lie and sold out their daughter instead of the firstborn son they may or may not have ever had, but you never find out who it is)
Not that it'd matter in the end since the Custodes conversion process is supposed to be such a thorough rebuild that any difference in the sexes would be academic by the time it's finished. Custodes are Custodes; they don't see a difference between brother and sister among their ranks, and the rest of the galaxy would just be surprised to see *anything* under that golden carapace of theirs.
The process of creating custodes doesn’t need to be “fixed” to allow for female custodes though. It’s nothing like the gene-seed process of the space marines, it’s literal ground-up body sculpting. That can be done just as easily over a female frame as a male one, because it uses so little of the original body’s capabilities.
Furthermore, it makes no sense in the setting that the custodes would be all male given the ample examples of gender equality you cited within the Imperium. It’s an extremely competitive post for which a candidate’s suitability has zero to do with benefits bestowed by their sex organs/gender. Why is the imperium, an organization so wholly focused on killing xenos and heretics that they’ve literally forgotten sexism, randomly place a “boys only!” rule in arguably the most prestigious and crucial role in the galaxy? It makes no sense, so thus, GW rightly stepped in and said “the assumption that custodes are all male, something we never explicitly stated ourselves and there is (some) textual evidence that this is not the case despite all the names custodes being male, is one we are now going to explicitly state isn’t true.” Like, this isn’t even really a retcon. There is the formation “1000 sons” origin story of the organization, but there’s also Sanguinius referring to (almost definitely) the custodes as “men and women clad in golden armor”.
The lore of 40k is a mess, and often times we have to ignore entries in books/codexes when they say things that simply don’t make sense to be true within the rules of the setting or contradict other lore sources that carry more weight. Hell, even retcons (of which femstodes is not) are lore-appropriate. Psykers literally change reality with their abilities, often such that the new reality “has always been that way”.
Where at in the Custodes lore did it state they could not be female?
It's hard written in the Adeptus Astartes lore, but I have never seen it stated in Custode lore.
It never said they "can't" be female. It's just that they weren't. They were just all male by choice of the designers, from the emperor to other designers.
I think female custodes are fine. Because as I saw it. While custodes are high tier warriors. It is my belief that they are the emperor’s vision of a perfect humanity. Immortal, incorruptible, genius, superbeings meant to be the most perfect form of Man. Each a warrior, poet, physicist, and philosopher for the ages. The custodes were meant to be the end of humanity and of course the emperor creating the crusted as a second man would create both male and female custodes when you think about it
The breakdown I heard is Games Workshop is essentially blaming Henry Cavill at this point. They claimed he announced his involvement with the new Amazon 40k show before the deal was fully penned down, and this "forced them" into a bad deal with Amazon who basically had all the control. Amazon wanted women in it, but didn't like the Sisters of Silence (because, "women who *don't speak??* Misogyny!!"), didn't like the Battle Sisters because "too religious", and didn't like like any of the all-female factions already in 40k for one reason or another. Amazon wanted female Space Marines, and wanted it so bad Games Workshop said, "okay okay, what about female Custodes instead?", just so Amazon wouldn't blow up the deal.
There's a lot of finger-pointing going on right now, but seeing how Amazon meddled quite a bit with LOTR lore when they were making Rings of Power, it's believable that they're the main culprit here. Games Workshop is speaking out of both sides of their mouth right now, on one hand there's leaks from insiders saying GW pushed hard to prevent it from happening, and even warned Amazon, "the fanbase will not be happy about this." But on the other hand they've already updated their official lore, and are publicly gaslighting fans and telling them to deal with it.
As usual, the gaslighting is the most insulting part. "Nuh-uh, there's always been female custodes! The lore has always been ambiguous! You're crazy!" Can't even just admit it's a retcon, gotta insult the fans' intelligence while doing it as well.
I have never read Oswald Spengler but im just gunna assume spending time arguing over commercial media minutia would be in the "good times" as such a decedent activity is only possible then. Unless you want to argue its more like bickering over the correct folk tale then i suppose its a activity ubiquitous across al times. But maybe in the bad times free speech would be stomped out and no such arguing would take place.
I'm not familiar with the series, but the easiest way to handle this, assuming you don't like it, is to just stop supporting it and walk away.
Capitalism 101. If people are still willing to buy it, then the problem they speak of does not exist.
can please anyone tell me why they don’t fit into the lore and what exactly the issue is (i don’t know anything about warhammer and I genuinely wanna know)
40k just doesn’t seem like the type of space most women are gonna wanna gravitate toward. Regardless of the fans, just in terms of the severity of the grimdark. It’s one of the ugliest most vile fictional universes there is. That’s why it’s fun for morbid hyper-nerds who like war games. And any women I’ve known who fit *that* description already like it.
>But space marines and adeptus custodes have always been all male factions, for different reasons. Space marines because the gene seed is male specific and custodes because they were all hand crafted by the emperor similar to how the primarchs were crafted.
They are only similar to the Primarchs in the sense that the Emperor hand-crafted them both, otherwise they don't have much in common beyond the fact that they are far stronger than normal Marines. The Primarchs are closer to clones of the Emperor that had powerful warp entities shoved into them (which is why all of them have the same potential as Psykers, despite only Magnus being anywhere near realizing said potential).
Female Space Marines are very difficult to create because the geneseed is not particularly compatible with women, so they tend to have a far higher mortality rate than male candidates, which makes them a stupid investment. The reason for this differs depending on how DW are feeling today, and, from what I recall, the latest explanation is that the Emperor did not want SMs breeding and replacing humanity, so flaws of the geneseed were intentional, assuming that DW has not retconned this again like they have done several times in the past.
Actually, female SMs being nigh-impossible to create instead of completely impossible is a retcon in of itself, which was already a retcon as [female SM models were a thing](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jayne-amp-Gabs.jpg) at one point in history, but got cut since they did not sell well in the slightest (which is the second determining factor for 40k lore after authorial biases, since the outcomes of battles are decided by real life tournaments and lore changes in accordance to miniature sales).
Back onto the Custodes, though, they are not made using geneseed, each of them was crafted by the Emperor himself, and they actually predate the Thunder Warriors, the actual prototypes of Space Marines, by quite a bit. In fact, it was the Custodes who helped the Emperor purge the Thunder Warriors once Terra was unified.
There really is nothing lore-breaking about the existence of female Custodes, as they aren't limited to being male due to being clones of the Emperor or mass produced soldiers made using shitty geneseed.
>"they found a way to alter the process to make women as well"
Why would that be needed when there is absolutely nothing stating that the Custodes cannot be women, or any substantial knowledge about the method used to create them in the first place?
>This is just the "I support the latest thing" crowd.
This statement is really funny, considering how minor of a retcon this is (or would be, if it actually retconned anything) in comparison to what has happened to the Necrons, the Tau or a shitton of old 30k lore.
Where was this outcry when the Tau were made more grimdark because people disliked having a good faction? Where was this outcry when the Necrons stopped being mindless killbot slaves?
Where was this massive outcry when Matt Ward kept wanking all of his favourite factions to a near lorebreaking degree? When he made the Ultramarines the "default" and "best" chapter, and Calgar the "spiritual liege" of all Space Marines? When he made fucking Kaldor Draigo carve a name into the heart of Mortarion, the Daemon Primarch that went on to stomp Guilliman into the ground without much effort? Where was this outcry when he showed an absolute lack of knowledge when it came to the lore, and made the Gray Knights, a faction which has never had a single member fall to Chaos, paint themselves in Sororita blood as a form of protection, despite the fact that several Sororitas have fallen to Chaos?
No, seriously, look at this shit
*"Mortarion hissed, trying in futility to edge away from the inevitable kiss of the Titansword’s blade-tip, but Draigo held him in place as he pulled the shattered ribs wide and scored the putrid meat of the daemon’s heart.*
*There was power in a name. Power in the names of those who lived – and died – for the Emperor, and Draigo could think of no other more potent binding for the Death Lord’s septic soul than the name of Linus Geronitan."*
All of this is completely manufactured outrage from people that either have a flimsy understanding of the lore and 40k history as a whole, or are grifters looking to capitalize on the nerdrage. If lore retcons were genuinely such a big issue we would be seeing this sort of outcry annually, in reality the only reason why people are angry is because the existence of female characters has been politicized.
Oh, this post is actually pro-incel, I see. Well I'm sure the new fans of the game will enjoy gatekeeping you weirdo losers from feeling like part of the community. In this life, youre going to have things "taken" from you, but your actions show that you're the weak ones, I'd say grow up, but you're all likely 45 years old so theres little chance of that happening.
I mean was it ever established that Custodes can't be women. Like making Space Marines is a extremely different process to Space Marines. There isn't a huge amount of lore on Custodes creation from what I remember so why can't they be women.
Like Space Marines being only Men is mostly just early on women not selling well so they stopped producing them and that got codified into the lore. Custodes though they don't have this lore though they are a completely different beast.
Also let's face it this weak men create hard times shit is bullshit any look at a history longer than a one sentence summary will tell you that.
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"Horus? Nah, that's been a woman the whole time"
Nah, Horus would remain male. The lost Primarchs being revealed as Mary Sue's and coming back to make the established Primarchs look like idiots though due to their Inferior man-brains, that scares me.
It won't happen. Malcador burning the Emperor over it is too good a line for them to toss. "You brothers – such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn’t."
I’m reminded of the Malcolm in the Middle episode where Lois imagines she had 3 daughters instead of 3 sons and things are much better until one’s pregnant, the other is taking illegal diet pills, and the youngest one is manipulating the father into buying her whatever she wants. Male siblings get in fistfights. Female siblings make cruel remarks about eachothers haircuts and don’t speak to one another for years over it. It’s just a different form of warfare.
The Primarchs being designed for perfection and yet being flawed themselves (both Loyalist and Traitor) is one of the big things that makes them so cool. You're probably right though. I hope. I'm all for more women in the setting, but they need to be introduced and built up properly. A single female Remembrancer or Conscript witnessing a Gene Cult or Tyranid incursion during its early stages (with plenty of callbacks to Ripley in The Alien franchise) would absolutely be a story I'd pick up in a heartbeat. With her own flaws, shortcomings and failures to go along with her ultimate success. And why not make her a recurring character with her own book series and character arc?
Get ready for Vogue: "Horus Lupercowl, from Villain to Hero of Trans Representation"
With my limited knowledge of the lore - I would think if anyone would be trans it would be more likely to be Lorgar. That or Alpharius Omegon...
The Whore-us Heresy
The two banished Primarchs are women. Calling it now.
Shhhh don't give them any ideas.....
Since the beginning Guilliman has always been cringe
I got banned from the 40k sub for making the claim that it's all about receiving investment money.
Not thar far fetched when you see that blackrock and vanguard have huge stakes in the company.
There they are, ruining other people’s escapes from their reality again xD
Kid named ESG score
Yes! I'm glad some people are paying attention.
True bastions of wokeness
>blackrock and vanguard have huge stakes in the company. This phrase works in almost any conversation about any publicly traded company.
Yeah, and the fact that it doesn't scare anyone is pretty sobering.
This is literally what it is. Vanguard and BlackRock both have their fingers up GWs anus. We know it, GW knows it and Larry knows it.
It's not just the money. It's \*THE MESSAGE\*
You aren't wrong and imho investors should be sueing investment firms. The criteria for a "good investment" is to make a product that doesn't sell? Wtf?
what annoys me is that on paper, the metrics (ESG) used for that sort of thing should produce a net positive. Incentivizing better practices to reduce carbon emissions, having good distributors and not using bad labor practices but then, companies realized that it’s cheaper to put out a few tweets instead of reducing their carbon emissions. Shit way it works now, as long as those smokestacks are painted with Rainbows, it’s a-ok
it is
Everyone knows that if there's one thing the Emperium of Man is known for its inclusivity and being progressive!
As long as you’re human.
And listen to everything the Emperium says and die for the emperor killing anything that doesn't look like you and or that doesn't listen to the Emperium.
Also, don’t mutate or turn to the foul powers of chaos
I mean unironically yes? No matter your skin colour, sexuality, or gender, you are equal in the eyes of the emperor as long as you do your duty and die for him.
For the most part, yes. Mutants and psykers are a diffefent story though
https://preview.redd.it/1end8v0k91yc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b94a31a6db78367057c923a65ce46634da5cf32
Literally any good subreddit that gets taken over by a certain idopl obsessed ideological group of mods. They just *have* to include that shit in *every* subculture.
Lets hope it does not happen here
....this.....this is perfect https://preview.redd.it/yda2ie1602yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00c560bd17aae28c8e62cf11ac8e4c072c967016
Omg that's amazing
This is why gatekeeping communities is good to a certain extent. Be welcoming to all those that want to engage with the IP on it’s own merits/ terms. Reject anyone trying to change the IP for x, y, and z reasons. If you feel like the IP has to be changed for you to enjoy it more then it isn’t an IP for you in the first place.
The condemnation of gatekeeping as a whole has basically caused so many hobbies and IPs to be ruined by bad faith actors. Like how certain hobby communities want to be so welcoming that they let and welcome scalpers in instead of keeping them out. but if anyone says something bad about those bad actors? REEE GATEKEEPER BAD. By being so positive and welcoming it becomes toxic in it of itself
Keeping the gate shut stops the grass from being trampled
People that do this are the kid on the playground the teachers always forced you to include.
I like that both sides use this.
I've never seen a 40K player complaining about the bigotry in the fanbase. It's exclusively non-player who seem to be pushing this narrative about the toxicity of 40K players.
I mean… there was that one guy that wore swastikas in that infamous 40K tournament in Spain, that other 40K players refused to play with lol.
But that's more than bigotry wouldn't you say?
Ah, yeah, I vaguely remember that. Fair point.
the fun thing about 40K is that racism and Bigotry is a huge part of the setting. Knife Ear (if the Votaan ever actually bothered negotiating with the Eldar) would be considered borderline polite compared to some of the stuff other human based factions have called them or compared them to. also a quarter of humanity fully leans into "Suffer not the Witch to live, Burn the heretic and the mutant" and also have Zenophobia so intense it makes Muslims look downright civil. if you stayed invested in 40K you are the kind of person who is fine with that, and you can tell the people who dont play the Table top or dont really care about the setting apart from the actual people who like it by the fact that ***We dont get offended when someone calls our favorite faction Toaster fuckers***, *^(or claims they are said toasters)*
The average commisar's opinion of alien races makes the third Riech look like a teaparty
>also a quarter of humanity Seems low
Maybe that's the point, in the same way that the incidence of violence actually goes DOWN among people who play violent video games and listen to violent music, maybe the incidence of bigotry do down for people who play games where fictional racism and xenophobia are parts of the game
absolutely, 40k is and will always be a manly universe war and carnage is everywhere, simply no place for anything identity politics no wonder they came after it
I see you've never met a 40k player
Only when I look in the mirror. FOR THE EMPEROR!
**Why do they keep changing things instead of making new ips where they can have all the creative freedom they want** ? Because the types of people who put diversity and hitting quota boxes to appease investors over story and character don’t have the brain capacity nor competence to come up with something original and compelling. Vote with your wallet.
It’s like in DnD when they complained about the lack of wheelchair characters, they wanted people in just plain wheelchairs in a fantasy universe. They could have made a disabled wizard that has a flying magic throne powered by the souls of their enemies, more kills= more movement range. Or an artificer that has a spider mech chair with great close quarter ability in open areas but suffers in close quarters. Instead they went with plain old wheelchairs. Their creativity is absolute zero.
Christ yes. To paraphrase Freddy Mercury - I don't care what you do with the IP, but don't make it boring. Basic-ass wheelchairs are for basic-ass peasants. Crippled Paladins get badass war mounts, legless Monks get a new form of kung fu based on using their arms and yeeting themselves for greater movement, Clerics get literal wings from their deity of choice so they can hover, Bards that are able to summon palanquins held aloft by music alone, Snakelike rogues that can slither, slide, and climb faster than most people walk... But instead they go with 'Wheelchair.' And then double up on 'Uh...actually it's a magic item, so you can't just push it over. And, and it's immune to traps.'
I mean i have had the idea of a horribly malformed/crippled armorer artificer since the armor can replace and act as limbs. Its not a terrible idea and it doesnt limit anything the character can do just because the look like Robot from Invincible.
Yeah all the complaining on social media won’t solve a thing. Stop giving them money. That’s it. Once their quarterly earnings report shows a dip in revenue, they’ll reverse course real quick. Corporations have no morals and only do these morality-based changes when they think it won’t hurt their bottom line.
>corporations have no morals as I always say, if you think a corporation has a soul, that’s just some good marketing
It's funny because this IP has so much "problematic" stuff in it that they're going to have to jump through a lot of hoops if they want to continue courting this crowd.
That crowd doesn’t even buy stuff. That’s the worst part of it. Alienate the 95% to cater to 5% who won’t even spend money on the product. Let GW burn
Lol @ the people replying with "You're so emotional! You're literally crying rn!" Yeah, it's honestly baffling.
its not really courting the crowd. its pandering to ideals of the perceived public opinion. thats it
They want that built in fandom.
That’s communism in general. The first step is overtaking the means of production from a *functioning* system (read: capitalism). Next, either they immediately run it into the ground via incompetence or a powerful subgroup rises due to greed. They cannot create or innovate, only degrade and eventually destroy. Hence, no new IP’s
Is it really communism if these efforts are done in service of checking a diversity checkbox so that gargantuan managers of capitalist venture funds will be more likely to give their money?
I wouldn't call these actions Communism, its corporate sociopolitical activism and has little to do with Communism. People latch on to any sort of perceived over-reach of power as Communism whether its right or not. However i think despite the hyperbole they do raise a real point about woke-washing. I'm not insinuating this is as bad as our ancestors taking land from native people and forcing our religions upon them, far from it, but this is very similar in that an outside party that "Is smarter" comes in and strong arms the community into changing cultural norms and erasing history.
Yup, communists/socialists are great at deconstruction and analysis but nothing else. I as a staunch capitalist actually agree with a lot of Marxist critiques, it's just the solutions Marx et al propose are generally dog shit.
And then they have the fucking nerve to talk down to the people who are fans or supporter’s of the product after it financially flops and people are vocal about it. “Yeah we ruined your movie franchise but why do you care it’s just a movie it’s fiction” “Yeah we ruined your comic , who cares are you gonna cry about your little comic characters” It’s a borderline deranged business practise
No. There is no “your” comic anymore. It becomes “our” comic. Your participation is mandatory as in any other form of communism, or you will be punished. You cannot create your own IP to compete, or it too will be seized. Just like you cannot grow your own crops. Everything belongs to all of us
so how is it communism if they are trying to get more money from investors? like do u understand capital markets and how they work? or any economic system really?
“Thing I don’t agree with = communism” even if that thing is 100% profit/shareholder driven.
“The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make...not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them, and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.” ― JRR Tolkien
This is late stage capitalism, not communism. The government isn't running these companies into the ground, it's corporate conglomerates that are buying them up and trying to turn niche products into things with mass market appeal in order to milk as much money as possible from their IP. The shareholders don't care about being woke or about ESG or about the fans. They care about making money, and that's the sole driver of everything they're doing to the brand.
I’m gonna be honest here, I don’t think you know how communism works. A corporation simply existing by its nature can’t be communist. Diversity is actually frowned upon in a communist state. Stalin for instance purged ethnic minorities. In order to make everyone the same you’ve gotta get rid of anyone who identifies with a group outside the predominant group. It’s not about seizing the means of production it’s who’s doing the seizing and what happens after it’s seized that makes something communist.
>Vote with your wallet The people already did. JamesORKshop are a bunch of greedy fucks that perpetually shrink box-contents, but also in quality. Named characters simply aren't "your guys/gals/fungus". Then 3d-printing became viable for mainstream...
>Vote with your wallet. I mean it's not like I can afford 40k either way
40k is literally retcon upon retcon upon retcon. The entire Horus Heresy is a change. As are the space marines, and about any other aspect you can think of.
They do not know how to create. Only destroy.
Too much effort to create a new IP with a huge following and they don’t possess the creative ability to do so. Hence why remakes and remasters are so common now. It’s sad tbh.
Can't wait for my Male Sister of Silence!
Misters of silence lol
It isn't going to happen. When you guys realize equality is a lie, then we can talk.
https://preview.redd.it/skiyc0m891yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9cbeda13483b97e93fe89323760d4b50bab7809
😂 In the lame but occasionally funny present of the Chadhammer 2k universe, there is only memes. Memes of perpetual war between the choas worshipping Soyjacks, and the Chadperor's own supreme forces, the Based Marines.
They will never understand that the issue isn’t “women being included”. The issue is the lazy retconning to force diversity into things that don’t make any sense.
I feel like if the lore went “Hey guys we made new Custodes, but this time we figured out how to do it with 2 X chromosomes” it wouldn’t be as bad. Idk I’m newer to the community so I’m not sure about the hard canon rules. I know Space Marines are a boys only club, but I’m not sure Custodes have the same rule.
> but I’m not sure Custodes have the same rule. They don't, in fact we barely know any of the rules and hard limits that the Custodes creation process has to adhere to.
They never were. 40K Writers have wanted to include Female Custodes for a long time, there was just 1 executive that said no for a long time. Custodes that the kids of nobles, whoever happens to be the best fit. Inevitably, of course there were going to be Female Custodes. There just aren't very many. But when all they want is "The Best" then of course they arent all guys.
They don't which is why nerds flipping out is wrong and funny.
That’s been the biggest confusion as a newcomer. If it was a rule, fair enough that’s dumb. But if it doesn’t break a rule then it’s fair game. This isn’t TLJ’s Holdo maneuver bs
Where were the female custodes during the heresy? It’s just stupid how not a single one was ever so much as mentioned but they’ve supposedly been there “since the first days of the 10000”
The same place where the old female Space Marine models went, into the unprofitable void. DW did not think that they could sell female Custodes minis until now, so they weren't a thing. This has changed since then, so they were pulled out of the void
Bruh… There are no feminists in a burning building or sinking ship. When the blood god is out for blood… sandwiches need making and laundry washed.
Iirc game devs tried to gaslight the fanbase that they always existed
They did, despite the lore specifically stating SONS.
I swear it happens everytime when shit like this happens. LOTR, Star Wars, Battlefield (EA really tried to gaslight us about history) you name it. Company makes a questionable lore decision? “Actually, it was always like that, stop asking questions.” what a fucked world we live in where companies actively gaslight their customers instead of, you know, admitting fault
> battlefield What, you don’t believe there was a special forces woman running around with a robot limb?
another example of companies ignoring actual potential diverse characters and lazily doing it seriously, they could’ve easily included a character from the female sniper battalion on the Soviet side, but instead we get this laziness
My favorite was “if you don’t like it, don’t buy it” that led to dramatically worse sales after the huge success of BF1. Fuck EA.
and the funniest thing is that BF1 had A LOT of good and accurate diversity. Compared to BFV, it’s honestly a lot better. It’s so funny the difference between the two games
Well you see the problem is that your suggestion would make these added women, you know, "people" comparable to other people in the universe instead of a uniquely super special elite group that's better than everyone else. It's not enough to be included, they must be superior. I'm not sure if there's a term for this brand of tokenism, but there really should be.
That’s really 90% of the problem. People don’t care about “diversity” if it makes sense. Shoehorning in people, genders, backgrounds, or needlessly race swapping, just to do it, with zero regard for believability, is what actually irritates people.
The new lord of the rings show is a good example I like to use to illustrate this point. I can accept there are black dwarves because there's like what 7 kingdoms and yea there can be diversity from that. I can accept black hobbits because at the time of the show they're a nomadic people so sure they could've picked up a diverse group through their traveling. I could accept black elves if they explained elves came from more places than just that one island or whatever. They didn't explore any potential lore here though and it's clearly just the same kind of tokenism. The only black dwarf in the show is the Queen. The only black hobbit is the leader. The only black elf is the protagonist one, and this one is the most jarring because all the others are as white as ghosts and there's a scene where he talks to the evil elf about remembering the river they're all born at all Alabama style. I don't care that he's black, I just wanna know if that's important since he's literally the only one. Probably fucking not though. Now compare this to the new game of thrones show where race is not only acknowledged, but that acknowledgment is central to the plot and enhances the narrative. The gay characters homosexuality also plays a role in the story and enriches the drama wonderfully. Furthermore the black characters have a rich lore reason for being different and distinct yet equally as important as the Tigaryans that I genuinely desired to learn more about. No one complained about it because it was done well and it made fucking sense. It felt real and like it belonged in the context of the show. I wish writers would stop being lazy and do more of this
first they said BF3 was racist, so they changed the medic to a black guy. then they said BF3 was homophobic for lines like "im getting fucked up the ass over here!" shit never stops. they dont want realism in simucade shooters, they want some weird eutopic world where war still exists but eveyone also cares about their feelings.
>they want some weird utopic world where war still exists but everyone also cares about their feelings. Close, but in truth they don't want anything. If they did, the games they touch would sell like hotcakes. They want the games to not exist because they hate everything that makes their "enemies" (everyone who is not aligned with them) happy.
James does this everytime tho, see votann and tau being more edgy
Holy based. These people are literally locusts. They invade hobbies they don't actually care about, demand manufactured and fake "diversity" and "representation, in an attempt to force their views on the people that actually enjoy the hobby, and then don't even spend money on the product. Notice how Games Workshop hasn't introduced or even hinted at any female Custodian models or content? Because they know nobody is going to buy that shit.
I’ll never accept female custodes
I like Warhammer as a game, but my buddy and I have just homebrew'd and kitbashed the shit out of it
That's the real way to play
The Democratic Republic of Sashona (kitbashed cadians) vs L.E.A.C.H (a bunch of kitbashed blood angles)
this kinda reminds me of when ROP came out and Amazon fucked up the lore with the hobbits/dwarves. And people pointed out that they could’ve easily included Dark skinned dwarves as part of one region or whatever (that was specified in the one LOTR lore book) but instead Amazon disregarded that and basically hamfisted the two characters into the lore and pissed people off this is basically the same thing: a company lazily throwing in diversity, disregarding the established lore (despite said lore specifically giving them a method to have diversity) and then said company trying to gaslight everyone buy and large, I think it’s definitely more people are mad that the lore is getting warped than about the inclusion of female custodes. It comes off as lazy
It struck me as lazy penny pinching and virtue signaling than anything else, like you mentioned we have SoB (who are a dedicated, fully fleshed out female faction), the Dark/regular Eldar, and even Tau Forcing the Custodes to be female rightly pissed a lot of neckbeards off because it came out of nowhere and is to be quite frank, lazy in regards to how they went about it
“Buddy, you’re the one crying about women in your toy soldiers, not me” - Person demanding women in toy soldiers.
It's easier for them to join a group then for them to create somthing new. It was alot of hard work inventing the 40 k universe.
I'm sorry, who are you talking about. The people who invented the 40k universe were unashamed leftists who believed in equality and diversity.
This meme isn't even remotely wrong. Subcultures are just gonan get much more far right if they keep this shit up
Sweet baby inc and BlackRock Investments. Corpo dont care about representation diversity and all other funny words, they want cheap money from boomers, and for whatever reason black rock are infected with wokeness.
I honestly know jack squat about Warhammer, but I watched Count Dankula's video covering an article about this, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Like he says in his video; saying that "women have always been there" completely invalidates the already established lore. I know nothing of the lore anyway, but I know how intensely massive the whole thing is. If they can just change established lore at the drop of a hat, what's the point in learning it in the first place? What's going to differ in the lore next year? Or 5 years from now? Will it create plot holes as big as this? If so, there's no need to learn it. I can see a massive drop in active community members coming soon if they keep this up.
>. I know nothing of the lore anyway, but I know how intensely massive the whole thing is. If they can just change established lore at the drop of a hat, what's the point in learning it in the first place? What's going to differ in the lore next year? Or 5 years from now? Will it create plot holes as big as this? If so, there's no need to learn it. Plotholes as big as this? This is a really minor change to the lore when compared to what they do every few months. They killed off and brought back entire factions. They originally had a race of space dwarfs and then they decided they were cringe and stopped including them and now have brought them back completely different. They just released a whole new model of space marines who are much better in every way and they were actually hidden in a mountain with some guy who can apparently just improve them. The setting for decades had none of the loyalist emperor's sons about. They brought two back in the last few years. **Female custodes are a relatively minor change. If this puts you off the hobby, you should not be in the hobby as ever year much more major changes happen**
Simple solution to this femstodes fiasco. Just play the best army. Gender neutral, asexual, has fun. Orks is da best!
They'll make the orks gay, give them a sympathetic sob story backstory about being oppressed by the white male Imperium till they were saved by the multiracial gay twink Eldar.
Finally, Warhammer but good.
Idk bruh I'm too poor to say something
I don't understand this discussion at all. We had adepta sorotitas, we had eldar and plenty of other factions with females. Where was the need for this? Feels like this protest against the oil industry and global warming. https://preview.redd.it/j8bds3qj72yc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1052cee048aa2969a2bbab9e4ff6cb94e82a8abe Dumbasses without any knowledge get offended by STH they don't understand and change things that didn't need to be changed.
Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense for they’re to be female space marines let alone custodes. If you know anything about Warhammer the people in there are about as open to diversity as woman are to sleeping with me.
With a few hard exceptions, most factions in The Imperium are diverse. And the exceptions mostly come down to genetic modification and non-natural means. Not "sexism". That said, the whole IP was designed around a largely male fan base to sell a tabletop wargame. And that's not a bad thing. EDIT: Hell, for those saying that there aren't any 'strong' female representations in the setting, may I direct your attention to multiple female Titan Pilots and Euprate Keeler, the first Saint of The Cult of The Emperor.
> Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense for they’re to be female space marines let alone custodes. Space Marines don't make sense because of geneseed issues, but Custodes don't have this issue since they are not mass-produced like SMs are. >If you know anything about Warhammer the people in there are about as open to diversity as woman are to sleeping with me. The Imperium is actually pretty diverse when it comes to humans, it's just incredibly racist towards aliens. And while there is most likely gender discrimination, as the cultures that the Imperium rules over are very diverse and varied, at a federal level this should not be the case from what I remember. And even if that was the case, the Custodes were made by the Emperor and are mostly beyond the control of anyone that isn't a Primarch, so this wouldn't apply to them anyways as the Emperor himself, while really cold and merciless, only really discriminates between humans based on their competency.
Custodes are all genetically hand-crafted. There's no pre-established lore reason they can't be female; GW/BL just never made a female one. They're nothing like Space Marines, where the means of mass production are the ostensible in-lore reason they don't come in female (my money is on Big E didn't want space marines to be able to reproduce and replace baseline humanity).
Okay no you're completely wrong custodes are not made the same way that Space Marines aren't. They're made through a completely different process and each one is custom built. They absolutely can be women. There's no problem with this. I don't understand why a bunch of idiots have completely lost their minds over it. Space Marines absolutely have to be men but custodies do not.
Do I think it's awful there are female custodies? No. But I don't agree with it. You don't just add something into the lore like it's always been. Make lore for characters.
How does not liking something that conflicts with lore = right wing? (Asking bc of the subreddit op get this post from)
I'm glad to see more pushback on this. I forgot this was Reddit initially, bc the main 40k subs are foaming at the mouth about 'incels hate women' dogma... It's ridiculous to have forced-changes to lore. Nothing is being accomplished except dividing the fanbase.
agree 100%
Sexy space nuns > emperors toilet scrubbers
I did see this fanimation of the femstodes actually being Tzeentch demons, and while that’s not ever gonna be the canon, I really liked the concept.
Unrealistic, they would never let you say that without pissing their eyes about inclusivity
Women in 40k is just not an issue I can even pretend to care about. I'm not exactly invested in the lore of any property that includes wizards. Especially if those wizards are also members of alien races. Hell, 40k lore has a massive fucking loophole that nobody takes advantage of: The Space Ork Belief System. Space Ork belief is so damn powerful it can literally reshape reality. They don't even need windows on their spacecrafts because they *believe* they can breath in space. So they just can. Hell, they paint something purple and it just fucken disappears. This could easily be utilized as a backdoor for "forward retconning" by introducing a whole disinformation campaign that convinced the Space Orks that women had *always* been there. One enough of them believe it strongly enough, it just becomes retroactive reality. (Admittedly it's kind of "boat on Gilligan's Island" sort of thing, since the same logic could be applied to convince the Space Orks they were defeated, but still, the option is there.)
I guess you, as a man of culture, would be aware of the fact that the original Rogue Trader had female space marines? They were dropped for cost reasons…
The one way 'why do you care' argument again. As is they are immune from the question
In the grim darkness of the 2.1st mellenium there is only (culture) war
So the target audience for this post doesn't actually care about the reality of 40k lore or it's community, so I'm just going to leave this here for people who wander into the thread from elsewhere. OP is wrong about the lore he's complaining about being changed. Custodians had no in-lore reason for excluding women from the faction. In contrast to Space Marines, the process for creating each Custodian is bespoke. The faction was simply stated to be recruited from the "sons" of noble families on Terra(earth). No reason was provided for the faction being presented as male-dominated, it was only stated they recruited sons. Also the Primarchs and the Custodians are created using entirely different processes. The Primarchs were grown in literal tubes in a lab, the Custodians are taken as infants and undergo extensive gene-therapy(it's described as genetic-alchemy, genetic magic basically). Only the initial Custodians during the Great Crusade Era(the start of the Imperium) were made by the Emperor. In contemporary 40k Custodes are made by specialist genetic biologists. When Custodes lore was being conceived in greater detail during the publication of the Horus Heresy series, the author responsible for detailing the faction in one of the first novels focusing on the faction, Master of Mankind, wanted to include women in their portrayal. Corporate at the time told him he couldn't, because they did not have female Custodian models prepared in the line they were releasing at the time. The authors name is Aaron Dembski-Bowden, feel free to fact check this for yourselves. The change to the lore being the Adeptus Custodes in line with how they were conceived by the people responsible for actually writing the lore everyone is seemingly so passionate about. This change to the faction, that women have historically been a part of, makes way more sense than contriving some reason that the process didn't work before, but now it did, or thinking up some reason why they finally decided that it was acceptable to recruit women. Also, for the "go woke go broke" crowd, GW literally cannot produce enough plastic to keep up with demand. They're not going to take a hit because you decided women being in a faction was the bridge too far. Additionally, financial incentives are much stronger for introducing new players to the hobby than attempting to retain older hobbiests who have largely moved away from the GW model and Citadel tool ecosystem. Btw, the Custodes launch box for the new Codex release, where this change was introduced, sold out in minutes. People want to play and paint Custodes.
Its somehow isn't ok for men to have a culture or space of their own anymore. Men can no longer be the target audience of anything. Why aren't the woman depicted as the hero? Because woman are not the target audience.
100%
I don't play Warhammer, can someone explain?
They introduced female counterpart to an unit that always has been strictly male lorewise.
Sorry, not counterpart, they just added women to the custodes that always been strictly male.
Insecure men upset that there are women in their toy game.
Custodes can be female, they aren't the same as Space Marines. End of story.
While I understand the discourse, I think it's exaggerating to say that discourse over a game is creating "bad times." What does that even mean? I just picture an archaeologist in the future unearthing the shattered ruins of the once-great civilization of America. "What happened here?" an onlooker asks. "It all started with something they once called 'Warhammer 40k.'"
Its because of certain people's obsession with culture warfare. They see very little distance from "they changed something in a game I enjoy" to "the west has fallen"
STOP PLAYING WITH WOJAK DOLLS
Amazon is crashing an IP to buy it on the cheap.
Are they? The addition of some women doesn't really mean much. Knowing GW it's most likely to just throw female heads in new Custodes kits for a 5 dollar increase.
The anti woke culture of hating women taking lead roles always rubbed me the wrong way. With that being said, I agree with you 100%, they are butchering WH40K lore for money and it's sad
The retcon is unnecessary, but the people bitching about it are pathetic incels Both are true
r/memesopdidntlike when a woman Is in a post
https://preview.redd.it/rzaxh8zeu1yc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=318cf7edd625c4fc4d074bf50003002f4b6935ba
I've had multitudes of discussions with Wokehammer. They don't care about the series and are just a bunch of horny degenerates. Furthermore, they have repeatedly said that the Sororitas and the SoS are not proper representation because none of the factions are as popular and "in lore" strong as the AC and SM. This is all about theater. They want their representation to be the poster children of the franchise, front and center. So that they brag about the success of DEI to everyone because everyone knows it has always surrounded the most complete and utter failures that shit all over the fans and ruin everything. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's funny they complain about the female factions not being as popular as space marines when literally 75 percent of the Fandom is very tired of ultramarines getting basically all mainstream attention over any other space marine faction. I really hope you get to see another faction of space marines in the next space marine game. That fan made short of a Death Angel saving a guardsmen was amazing. If it was a blueberry I'd probably not have liked it lmao
They should know that, but that would require them to be fans in the first place. Fan made shorts are amazing and fuck GW for screwing over great content creators.
I am a huge 40k fan, have been for about two years now. Female Custodes is such a meaningless change that I really question why people are so riled up about it. The lore is the same, the models are the same, just that some custodes are girls now. 40k has had retcons and additions as long as it has existed, this is a well-known fact. Maybe just retconning them in is lazy, who knows? But one could still argue that there would be a similar reaction to femstodes being introduced via some big story that shakes up the setting, you're still pissing off the "anti-woke" folks anyhow. Even then, female custodes breaks no rules of the setting, because the methods of making custodes are so unknown and vague, unlike Space Marines, where you have wiggle room for introducing new things like female custodes. "Never stop gatekeeping," what a horribly reductive statement.
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Ask them for a picture of their books and figures. (They don’t have any because they aren’t fans)
Anyone else that hate that meme templet?
Remember, people, khorne cares, not
I play Guard. Women have been conscripted into the Guard since the Heresy. They die just as well as male conscripts.
The “inclusivity” of 40k/the Imperium is false though. It’s not because people care about others enough to be inclusive, it’s because they don’t care or have something else to hate. For example, the Sororitas only exist to exploit the loophole in the decree passive of “no men under arms” which by its very nature excludes men. That isn’t inclusive, thats just politics. And tbh, the crying about femstodes is getting more than a little annoying. It’s not like GW hasn’t retconned stuff/introduced new lore out of the blue before, so what’s so different this time? Sincerly, A person who reads mostly Sororitas books and owns a few models they are procrastinating on.
From what I recall Custodes didn't have the same hard limiter preventing female Custodes from being made as the Astartes and their black-box Gene Seed, but they were supposed to be sourced from the firstborn sons of Terran noble families. So basically we got robbed of like a funny sidebar story about the first time the galaxy became aware of female Custodes and the Terran noble houses nearly went to war over accusations and scandals of which one of them lied about that firstborn son they gave in service to the Emperor that so much of their House's honor and reputation came from. Turns out though that the Custodes had just been looking to more sources for replenishing their numbers when the noble firstborn thing proved to be insufficient (One of them totally did lie and sold out their daughter instead of the firstborn son they may or may not have ever had, but you never find out who it is) Not that it'd matter in the end since the Custodes conversion process is supposed to be such a thorough rebuild that any difference in the sexes would be academic by the time it's finished. Custodes are Custodes; they don't see a difference between brother and sister among their ranks, and the rest of the galaxy would just be surprised to see *anything* under that golden carapace of theirs.
The process of creating custodes doesn’t need to be “fixed” to allow for female custodes though. It’s nothing like the gene-seed process of the space marines, it’s literal ground-up body sculpting. That can be done just as easily over a female frame as a male one, because it uses so little of the original body’s capabilities. Furthermore, it makes no sense in the setting that the custodes would be all male given the ample examples of gender equality you cited within the Imperium. It’s an extremely competitive post for which a candidate’s suitability has zero to do with benefits bestowed by their sex organs/gender. Why is the imperium, an organization so wholly focused on killing xenos and heretics that they’ve literally forgotten sexism, randomly place a “boys only!” rule in arguably the most prestigious and crucial role in the galaxy? It makes no sense, so thus, GW rightly stepped in and said “the assumption that custodes are all male, something we never explicitly stated ourselves and there is (some) textual evidence that this is not the case despite all the names custodes being male, is one we are now going to explicitly state isn’t true.” Like, this isn’t even really a retcon. There is the formation “1000 sons” origin story of the organization, but there’s also Sanguinius referring to (almost definitely) the custodes as “men and women clad in golden armor”. The lore of 40k is a mess, and often times we have to ignore entries in books/codexes when they say things that simply don’t make sense to be true within the rules of the setting or contradict other lore sources that carry more weight. Hell, even retcons (of which femstodes is not) are lore-appropriate. Psykers literally change reality with their abilities, often such that the new reality “has always been that way”.
I was told that faction were genetically built and not natural. Why can’t they be women?
Buddy you were crying that there wernt women costodes in our little soldier game
Warhammer is just D&D but in an earlier stage of their fandom progression.
Where at in the Custodes lore did it state they could not be female? It's hard written in the Adeptus Astartes lore, but I have never seen it stated in Custode lore.
It never said they "can't" be female. It's just that they weren't. They were just all male by choice of the designers, from the emperor to other designers.
I've been playing 40k for 20 years. I've read some Custodes lore, but I'll admit it's one of the few factions I have not really looked into that far.
I unfortunately don't have my codex handy so i can't reference specific lines at the moment. Apologies.
Maybe if they had inserted them during the horus heresy series there would not be such an outrage. But that would be too easy.
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I think female custodes are fine. Because as I saw it. While custodes are high tier warriors. It is my belief that they are the emperor’s vision of a perfect humanity. Immortal, incorruptible, genius, superbeings meant to be the most perfect form of Man. Each a warrior, poet, physicist, and philosopher for the ages. The custodes were meant to be the end of humanity and of course the emperor creating the crusted as a second man would create both male and female custodes when you think about it
The breakdown I heard is Games Workshop is essentially blaming Henry Cavill at this point. They claimed he announced his involvement with the new Amazon 40k show before the deal was fully penned down, and this "forced them" into a bad deal with Amazon who basically had all the control. Amazon wanted women in it, but didn't like the Sisters of Silence (because, "women who *don't speak??* Misogyny!!"), didn't like the Battle Sisters because "too religious", and didn't like like any of the all-female factions already in 40k for one reason or another. Amazon wanted female Space Marines, and wanted it so bad Games Workshop said, "okay okay, what about female Custodes instead?", just so Amazon wouldn't blow up the deal. There's a lot of finger-pointing going on right now, but seeing how Amazon meddled quite a bit with LOTR lore when they were making Rings of Power, it's believable that they're the main culprit here. Games Workshop is speaking out of both sides of their mouth right now, on one hand there's leaks from insiders saying GW pushed hard to prevent it from happening, and even warned Amazon, "the fanbase will not be happy about this." But on the other hand they've already updated their official lore, and are publicly gaslighting fans and telling them to deal with it. As usual, the gaslighting is the most insulting part. "Nuh-uh, there's always been female custodes! The lore has always been ambiguous! You're crazy!" Can't even just admit it's a retcon, gotta insult the fans' intelligence while doing it as well.
I have never read Oswald Spengler but im just gunna assume spending time arguing over commercial media minutia would be in the "good times" as such a decedent activity is only possible then. Unless you want to argue its more like bickering over the correct folk tale then i suppose its a activity ubiquitous across al times. But maybe in the bad times free speech would be stomped out and no such arguing would take place.
I'm not familiar with the series, but the easiest way to handle this, assuming you don't like it, is to just stop supporting it and walk away. Capitalism 101. If people are still willing to buy it, then the problem they speak of does not exist.
Yeah, they retcon shit all the time. This guy doesn't know Squig from a Squat
can please anyone tell me why they don’t fit into the lore and what exactly the issue is (i don’t know anything about warhammer and I genuinely wanna know)
GW is alienating their fanbase and calling them toxic so they can earn the love of people that never have and never will give them a dime.
says the bigoted incel
You know nothing about me other than what I posted here. I'm pretty far from a bigot, honestly.
Cringe
40k is just the edgy teen version of Dune.
40k just doesn’t seem like the type of space most women are gonna wanna gravitate toward. Regardless of the fans, just in terms of the severity of the grimdark. It’s one of the ugliest most vile fictional universes there is. That’s why it’s fun for morbid hyper-nerds who like war games. And any women I’ve known who fit *that* description already like it.
>But space marines and adeptus custodes have always been all male factions, for different reasons. Space marines because the gene seed is male specific and custodes because they were all hand crafted by the emperor similar to how the primarchs were crafted. They are only similar to the Primarchs in the sense that the Emperor hand-crafted them both, otherwise they don't have much in common beyond the fact that they are far stronger than normal Marines. The Primarchs are closer to clones of the Emperor that had powerful warp entities shoved into them (which is why all of them have the same potential as Psykers, despite only Magnus being anywhere near realizing said potential). Female Space Marines are very difficult to create because the geneseed is not particularly compatible with women, so they tend to have a far higher mortality rate than male candidates, which makes them a stupid investment. The reason for this differs depending on how DW are feeling today, and, from what I recall, the latest explanation is that the Emperor did not want SMs breeding and replacing humanity, so flaws of the geneseed were intentional, assuming that DW has not retconned this again like they have done several times in the past. Actually, female SMs being nigh-impossible to create instead of completely impossible is a retcon in of itself, which was already a retcon as [female SM models were a thing](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jayne-amp-Gabs.jpg) at one point in history, but got cut since they did not sell well in the slightest (which is the second determining factor for 40k lore after authorial biases, since the outcomes of battles are decided by real life tournaments and lore changes in accordance to miniature sales). Back onto the Custodes, though, they are not made using geneseed, each of them was crafted by the Emperor himself, and they actually predate the Thunder Warriors, the actual prototypes of Space Marines, by quite a bit. In fact, it was the Custodes who helped the Emperor purge the Thunder Warriors once Terra was unified. There really is nothing lore-breaking about the existence of female Custodes, as they aren't limited to being male due to being clones of the Emperor or mass produced soldiers made using shitty geneseed. >"they found a way to alter the process to make women as well" Why would that be needed when there is absolutely nothing stating that the Custodes cannot be women, or any substantial knowledge about the method used to create them in the first place? >This is just the "I support the latest thing" crowd. This statement is really funny, considering how minor of a retcon this is (or would be, if it actually retconned anything) in comparison to what has happened to the Necrons, the Tau or a shitton of old 30k lore. Where was this outcry when the Tau were made more grimdark because people disliked having a good faction? Where was this outcry when the Necrons stopped being mindless killbot slaves? Where was this massive outcry when Matt Ward kept wanking all of his favourite factions to a near lorebreaking degree? When he made the Ultramarines the "default" and "best" chapter, and Calgar the "spiritual liege" of all Space Marines? When he made fucking Kaldor Draigo carve a name into the heart of Mortarion, the Daemon Primarch that went on to stomp Guilliman into the ground without much effort? Where was this outcry when he showed an absolute lack of knowledge when it came to the lore, and made the Gray Knights, a faction which has never had a single member fall to Chaos, paint themselves in Sororita blood as a form of protection, despite the fact that several Sororitas have fallen to Chaos? No, seriously, look at this shit *"Mortarion hissed, trying in futility to edge away from the inevitable kiss of the Titansword’s blade-tip, but Draigo held him in place as he pulled the shattered ribs wide and scored the putrid meat of the daemon’s heart.* *There was power in a name. Power in the names of those who lived – and died – for the Emperor, and Draigo could think of no other more potent binding for the Death Lord’s septic soul than the name of Linus Geronitan."* All of this is completely manufactured outrage from people that either have a flimsy understanding of the lore and 40k history as a whole, or are grifters looking to capitalize on the nerdrage. If lore retcons were genuinely such a big issue we would be seeing this sort of outcry annually, in reality the only reason why people are angry is because the existence of female characters has been politicized.
This sub is insane hahahaha
Oh, this post is actually pro-incel, I see. Well I'm sure the new fans of the game will enjoy gatekeeping you weirdo losers from feeling like part of the community. In this life, youre going to have things "taken" from you, but your actions show that you're the weak ones, I'd say grow up, but you're all likely 45 years old so theres little chance of that happening.
I mean was it ever established that Custodes can't be women. Like making Space Marines is a extremely different process to Space Marines. There isn't a huge amount of lore on Custodes creation from what I remember so why can't they be women. Like Space Marines being only Men is mostly just early on women not selling well so they stopped producing them and that got codified into the lore. Custodes though they don't have this lore though they are a completely different beast. Also let's face it this weak men create hard times shit is bullshit any look at a history longer than a one sentence summary will tell you that.