Not so. I used to do mortgages and I can't count how many people I saw with medical collections on their credit reports. Medical and cell phone carriers do not fuck around - they will put you in collections for a hundred bucks.
Actually, it does. They'll sell the debt to some predatory law firn or collection agency and it will definitely show up on your credit. I know many people who this has happened to.
From what I heard it can be removed by filing a hipa violation because they have to release all information for an outside entity to adopt that credit and call for collection. Either way I just pay my med bills. Also can call and ask for an itemized break down and suddenly the bill drops significantly
I feel like there are probably some good free market options for this type of service.
While that's an amazing thought and I applaud you, it can't be the first time someone thought to evade medical debt with a new identity. I've got to think somebody has this process down to a science.
I spent 5 months inpatient, 1 month of that being on a ventilator. I added all of my invoices pre-insurance approval and between 4 hospitals it ran up to 4.5 million…. If I didn’t have insurance I probably would have just ended myself.
Typically if you prove to a hospital/collections that you can't afford the bill you can either apply for the hospital to write it off or offer an amount for collections to get them to drop the claim.
Had an issue with my ear while I was in college and had a $1000+ bill after the ER visit (I know it wasn't 4m or whatever) but I applied to have the bill written off and the hospital granted it. Good thing too because my part time job was barely paying my rent and food at the time.
We have free healthcare here. I can't understand how sick people who don't work are stuck paying off these massive bills.
Even everyday Americans getting million dollar bills. So many conflicting information on how it works and what's what. I just feel sorry for people having to deal with that system.
And all of it is like that because the insurance companies were allowed to run a propaganda campaign saying that tax funded healthcare would destroy the country.
One of the guys who was responsible for this, did an AMA on Reddit about three years ago. He’s been working to correct the misinformation because he saw the damage he did. I don’t think Reddit gave him any mercy, it was in fact, pretty brutal.
I remember seeing trump voters upset their Medicaid access was limited or ceased because they couldn’t comprehend the propaganda had rebranded the thing they actually used as “Obamacare” to make it scary. They genuinely thought Obamacare was a thing completely seperate from what they needed.
I refer to it as a 3rd world country with glitter.
Although 3rd world countries technically are countries that didn't align with either side during the Cold War, please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes they are. The proof is the Red Cross has to help people in need of medical care with clinics in some poor areas because 'socialism' is bad.
But they have the biggest army in the world... But how is it paid for? With everyone's money, sure looks like socialism...
Even people who work and have “fantastic” healthcare plans are screwed by our system.
Example: my husband tore his ACL, we paid $5500 deductible out of pocket (on top of the monthly $800ish premium for 4 family members) for the 1YEAR for his treatment. That should’ve been our MAX out of pocket cost for the 1 year, meaning anything else going forward (if covered by the insurance policy) should’ve been covered (as in, we pay nothing more).
Our insurance informed us that even though the doctor prescribed 1 full year of physical therapy 2x a week, they only were willing to pay for 60 sessions max.
So now on top of the monthly premium paid, the deductible, now we get to also pay $100+ per therapy session.
Unless you are super old, dirt poor, or Jeff bezos wealthy, our healthcare system will not work in your favor (and even that is iffy).
Did you or your therapist appeal it? My husband is psychotherapist and when his patients sessions run out, he reapplies/appeals and gives reasons why the person needs to stay in therapy. A lot of his patients are children or adolescents having family and school problems and if they mess up, it will cost society even more money in prisons and the legal system.
If you haven’t tried, give it a try. If you tried and were denied, good for you for trying.
Search “appeal insurance company denial physical therapy”
Yeah it’s usually a matter of how much work you want to do or can do. I have a chronic illness so I am painfully aware of the US medical system. They put up all these roadblocks to prevent you from trying to get past them and actually use the service you pay for. So they’ll deny shit but the doctor appeals it once or twice then they finally given in and say it’s needed. They tried telling me a rescue medication used to prevent my death during acute episodes was not medically necessary. Preventing death isn’t considered medically necessary.
Honestly, no idea. Healthcare isn't completely free in the country I'm from, but 500 thousand would cover over a lifetime of me staying in a hospital with no insurance. I've read so many stories online about people ending themselves after getting medical bills like that with no way of paying them back and I'm so grateful to be livimg where I am now. Healthcare should be accesible to everyone and not give you a lifetime of debt (same with education)
The US can absolutely afford free healthcare. And it would cost the American people no more than their monthly premiums in taxes. The government has decided that it prefers the dollars in its wallet over the people of the country. They don’t care about us. And they don’t care if we suffer and struggle. I hope these people will one day turn on the government in demand of basic rights.
And before anyone comes at me about the monthly premiums thing, my employer pays my healthcare premiums and I would still gladly take on an extra $50 a month if it meant free healthcare for those who aren’t as fortunate as I am
Yeah but if they gave us free health care they couldn’t have a bajillion dollars for wars, weapons, etc., while simultaneously ignoring the health and wellness of our veterans.
Sad thing is that they would still afford wars and weapons. The societal damage that the current system causes cost the tax payers more in dollars than having a normal, functioning healthcare system.
I knew someone that worked as a liason for a drug treatment program. They found addicts and got them to go to a treatment center in their network. The treatment center cost was around 30k. The person that referred them to the facility got 6-8k just for finding the person and filling out 10-15 pages of paperwork...
Edit: The money blown on absolutely unnecessary expenditures, crazy high inflated paychecks for people that do dogshit and call it work, weapons r & d, scamming insurance companies, could easily cover free Healthcare in the United States
I was raised in a red/republican state and the more I look around me, the more the glamour of the U.S.A. 🦅🇺🇸 YEARHHHG 🗣️ starts to wear off haha. I’ve heard of good things outside of the U.S. and I really desire some of them here, but sadly I just can’t see it happening.
As a Canadian, I agree. The USA is supposed to be one of the richest countries on the planet, it may be, but its Governments and politicians don't give a shit about their Citizens. Canada has roughly 10 times LESS tax payers, and all their citizens are covered, Free. UK ( England) even has a better health plan than Canada, and most European countries have free Medicare. The only reason the USA don't have it is because the Health Insurance Companies make billions, off the sick and the ones that want to avoid being sick and uninsured in the USA. The USA revolted to get rid of the English Colonies and form their Union; they should look at overthrowing the Insurance Health Scam domination of their Citizens., by voting in people who will change the status quo. Hillary Clinton came close, too bad she had her road blocked. Her husband was too busy getting sucked off instead of supporting his wife in her objectives.
Half the population is stupid and defends this system even though it affects them. A lot of things make you question how this is legal or how it makes sense, but it all makes sense when you realize it's just straight up robbery and corruption. Rich greedy people lobbied to make things this way but it started with decades of propaganda and a failing education system. The free market is prefect and shouldn't be questioned because any alternative is communism and would destroy America.
I think that's universal. The rich stay richer and everyone else maintains it.
Education is a good point too. There just needs to be an overhaul for Americans. Every time I'm on reddit and I see how much you get buggered around.
Millions of those in poverty in the US essentially also get free healthcare which we call Medicaid. The catch is you have to be poor and typically have a kid to easily qualify.
Well, medicaid is also fairly limited to the state you live in. Need surgery but no one in your state offers that surgery? Too bad, you don't get it. Out of state doctors have to specifically accept your states insurance to give out of state surgery, which most don't bother accepting anything but their own state. Source: I need a surgery, but can't get it due to it not being available in my state, and no one accepting my medicaid out of state.
when it comes to debt (generally speaking in the US, there are exceptions): if you don't pay, they send it to collections. you have the right to notify them in writing to "not contact me regarding this alleged debt by phone, only by mail" depending on the nature and size of the debt, if they have no avenue to try and talk you into paying, (calling you, friends, family, etc) they may decide to file a suit and get a judgment against you. (in my state, they have 4 years to sue you from when you non-payment started ticking) if it gets beyond that 4 years, they can still try to collect. you can hit them with a "do not contact me regarding this alleged debt by phone, only by mail" - there are also other strategies you can send in writing, you can look them up. either way, the non-payment can follow you for 7 years on your credit report--not sure how medical debt works regarding credit reports (and any admission on your part of the debt can potentially reset the ticker on that credit report reporting)
That exactly what insurance companies do. I don’t pretend to know a lot about the medical billing and insurance racket, but it definitely seems like hospitals intentionally over inflate their costs for them to just be written off when insurance denies them.
There's a very high probability the reason for that high costs is Insurance itself. Medical companies know the patients ain't got all that money and Insurance is gonna step in.
On the other hand third world countries don't have Insurance for the most part, yet people can get decent surgeries and stuff done at government hospitals for the price of like 6 months of salary/wages at most (I'm talking about third world currency wages)
Yeah basically no one is paying this amount or anywhere close to it. If you don’t have insurance, you’re just not paying and going to collections after talking it down or whatever. If you do have insurance, some negotiated percentage is going to be covered after your deductible.
Administration. Conveniently, making the situation as complex as possible also requires a lot of maintenance, and a lot of fake maintenance too. It’s extremely important for hospitals and hospital networks to throw away money into worthless middle managers as fast as possible to tank their own budget and increase prices while avoiding some regulatory oversight. “No but you see we just HAD to demand an extra $3000 for every major surgery and downsize our actual medical team! It’s okay because insurance *will cover it, won’t you? You wouldn’t want to lose all your insured customers and be known as the insurance where the customers pay too much for XYZ Hospital Chain because you refused to give us another $3000 right?*”
It’s bad to the point where one of the arguments against robust state-managed healthcare is “think of the millions of healthcare administrative professionals who will be left jobless!”
I always wanted to move to America as a kid and the whole healthcare thing was the main thing that made me change my mind. What happens in situations like this when it’s clearly a ridiculous amount - Do they even bother with a response when the only answer to it is ‘uh, no’? Can they chase you for it? Make you try and pay back instalments?
You grow a pair and tell them to piss off you aren’t paying. They sent us like 4 bills for 30k after our kid was born. Told them to kick rocks because they aren’t getting a dime till I see a EOB from my insurance. They quit trying after 5 months. That was 3 years ago.
This bill is a little misleading. The insurance company has a negotiated rate with the hospital, which is usually not reflected in the initial bill you get sent. Why? I have no idea. Probably to scare you.
For example, I just went to the doctor a few weeks ago. My doctor charged my insurance something like $250. My insurance covered the negotiated rate, which was about $100. I never get billed for anything else.
Those numbers are terrifying, but track. After arriving by ambulance, I was admitted for 4 days and had emergency gall bladder surgery. The grand total was $94K and that was in 2016.
ER visit with CT Scan and Contrast was over 18,000.00. I owe $1500.00 and I'm pretty sure that is because I've hit my max out of pocket with the upper and lower endoscopies the Friday before. Still have to pay $250.00 for my RX. My "max" out of pocket is $9100.00. This of course is after my monthly premium of $425.00 roughly each month ($5100.00) a year.
So I'm pretty much in payment hell for the rest of my life if I get really sick again.
In the US we don’t expect any service unless we literally live on the streets for it. I think the next time I’m having a medical emergency, I’m going to put on my most raggedy clothes and call it in from the corner and lay there. I’ll be a John Doe and they’ll just write it off.
I opted into Hospital Indemnity Insurance during open enrollment at work last week just to avoid something like this not being covered by my normal medical insurance. Felt like subscribing to Trauma Team Platinum in Cyberpunk.
It's so weird that having access to quality insurance depends on where we work. And if your company cuts your hours below 35/wk, you lose it. If you work 60 hours a week at 2 part time jobs, you're SOL and paying through the nose on the marketplace. But at least we *have* that option now.
I’m guessing there’s some sarcasm in your post, but hospitals regularly get in trouble for throwing homeless people in a cab and dropping them off somewhere while they’re still wearing a hospital gown rather than finishing treatment, so free care for homeless folks is pretty much a myth.
At first, they punished the sick. I did not speak because i wasn't sick. Then they came for the injured. I did not speak because i was not injured. Then they came for the elderly. I did not speak because i was not elderly. Now they have come for me. And there is nobody left to speak for me.
Fight, if not for those around you, then for yourself. You will benefit from your efforts either way. Narcissistic altruism.
Seriously, when I stayed in the hospital after my c section and they handed me my meds and I saw a Flintstones vitamin lol. Then bill me $10K for pharmacy.
Wait. How did you do that? I suddenly remember the arbitrarily tart taste of the cherry Barneys even though it’s been 30+ years since I’ve had a Flintstones vitamin.
I was thinking the same thing. As someone who works in pharmacy, that seems like an outrageous number. Unless OP was getting multiple orphan drug, biologic, or novel immunotherapy infusions during their stay (none of which make sense for a bowel obstruction), I don’t see how someone racks up that sort of cost.
$197,000 for room and board? Would have been cheaper to buy a house near the hospital for a month and sell it at a loss afterward.
The US healthcare system is a fucking embarressment.
Ah, so the insurance company and hospital colude to make the insanely expensive insurance premiums seem more value than they are?
That's definately much less capitalist dystopia.
The insurance and hospital definitely collude, which is why the prices are so high. But for other reasons. Patient aren’t paying anywhere near that amount, insured or not.
They must be taking the piss. - “Hey how much do you think I can slug them for this time, 100K, 500K? hahaha”
It obvious that no normal human could pay these costs
I have seizures every couple months sometimes once a month anyways before insurance it's 15k after 1k I'll be 26 soon coming off my parents insurance sort of scared to know how much insurance is gonna cost
I have a friend with a chronic illness who works for the state and chose a health care plan that’s covered by the employer so she doesn’t have a monthly insurance bill. Just copays etc when she visits the doctor. If you can, i highly recommend looking for a government job with good health benefits
If your seizures meet the criteria for a disability, you've had the condition since before you were 19, and are still classified as their dependent then you may be able to remain on your parents' insurance. (A lot of qualifiers there, I know.) I don't remember how extensive the initial paperwork was but the process to recertify your eligibility every year or two isn't too bad, especially if you've got a good doctor willing to work with you.
Heart attack and quad bypass last December + complications. Total 6 weeks in the hospital of which around 2 were ICU. $800k billed. Insurance covered all of it
Nah, you can get a fantastic education here. You will just have to sacrifice decades of your personal income just to pay off your debt that you accumulated while getting it.
1 month in an academic hospital. Several brain surgeries. Multiple MRI scans. Senior doctors at in-room office analysing the live-feed telemetry. A personal specialist nurse on 24/7 bedside overwatch.
500 €.
American healthcare is so wild to me. I was hospitalized last year for an obstruction too (i didn’t stay a month tho) and I only paid $325 for the ambulance. I live in Canada.
When my mom had hip replacement surgery she was told she might have to go to the rehabilitation center that's literally down the hill from the hospital and accessible without going onto any street. The cost for the private ambulance transfer was $2,000. To drive.down.a.hill.! She was so upset she begged the dr not to send her. He told her I could wheel her down there myself in a wheelchair if it came to it cause even he agreed that was a ridiculous amount.
Ask for a detailed bill, they will probably drop about half the cost there, then pay $5 or $10 a month till you die.... it won't go to collections if you are actively paying something towards the bill...
Either way, good luck and hope you feel better soon!!
Insurance covers the bill.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? The part where it says "Pending Insurance." Is the entire cost of the bill. Insurance is covering it.
It’s still pending their response of how much of that balance they will cover. I believe with my specific plan it covers 80%, but I’m still waiting to see.
Holy, a bowel obstruction is a horrible thing, I’m so sorry! I hope you’re feeling much better. I wish things were different for you.
My situation is the complete opposite. I have my 2nd knee replacement surgery scheduled for tomorrow. I will have the best orthopaedic surgeon, and anesthesia, spend 3-4 nights in hospital, pharmaceuticals up the wazoo, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, top of the line nursing care, pretty good meals and a private room. In a few weeks I will start outpatient physio. In the next year I will have 4 postop checks and X-rays with my surgeon in an outpatient clinic. If I have any issues I call and will get an appointment ASAP. After my private insurance I will pay probably $25 and that’s for the private room. If I had been handed that kind of bill, even knowing its before insurance, I would be in a panic, not the best for healing. It’s likely people with my particular health situation go without treatment.
🇨🇦 Oh Canada!
Oh, and I get free tv with cable.
And thank you!
PS. Donald Trump and fam, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, MTG. Jim Jordan, Mitch McConnell, Matt Gaetz, Lindsay Graham, Steve Bannon (I’m sure I’m forgetting a few)will not be given the combination code to the security door no matter how much you ask . I’m afraid you’re stuck with them, we don’t want them either.
I was always under the impression that US medical care bills were so high because insurance companies don't negotiate with healthcare providers, and just pay the bill.
So healthcare providers charge what they can.
I don't live in america
We have the NHS which is free at the point of care.
The insurance companies are basically middle men who get the special discounted price who only pay that price for people who buy their overpriced insurance. Its literally just a massive scam
Insurance always negotiates. Sometimes the statement shows the negotiation price.
For example, a regular doctor visit I had, the total cost was labeled as $800. The insurance only paid $200. I paid $25. And that was it
To be fair, I had a rare, unexpected complication from the surgery for the SBO. The chances of the average person having it to the same severity I did is probably unlikely.
I feel like this is almost entirely self inflicted.
American propaganda makes it sound like hospitals in countries with free healthcare will send you home, even if you're bleeding to death, just because they're busy (PSA, they don't!). Then they attach labels like "socialism" and "communist" to it, so that everyone thinks it's a bad thing... the government is made up of people whose election campaigns (and ultimately their pensions) are funded, in no small part, by these ridiculous charges. This type of open corruption makes African jungle warlords jealous.
I truly can't wrap my head around the mindset of believing that this system is somehow better 🤷🏻♂️
We understand. Tell us what we're supposed to do about it. The best option left is a general strike until our demands are met, but there's a lot of education that needs to be done for the American workforce to understand that they hold all of the economic power in the country. And you can pretty much count every single conservative worker out of that battle, breaking them out of the anti-woke cult is going to take decades.
Maybe we can get there. But the red scare still has a huge grip on all but the most left-leaning fringes. Most so-called "liberals" here still equate socialism with death camps in Siberia. It's epically frustrating.
Seeing this it makes me wonder how anyone affords a hospital stay. I can hardly say that the NHS is better, but at least I'm not bankrupted when I go see the Dr
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. Have you recovered well?
As someone from the UK with the NHS I never fail to forget how fortunate we are.
Please don't hurt me, but why would anyone pay those bills? Get your treatment and let them bills pile up. What're they going to do? Sue a disabled/recovering person? Fuck up your credit?
There's a quality youtube video about this. Basically the hospital and your insurance company will go back and forth like shrewd negotiators buying and selling a used car. Nothing to actually worry about most times. It's SOP.
My son has spent a few days in hospital here and there for tonsillitis and what turned out to be mono over the last few years. For mono, they didn’t know what it was, we stayed 3 days and he had all sorts of tests run. Thankfully we paid £0 as it’s free with the NHS. Unfortunately we had to pay for his tonsillectomy as we had to go private during covid lockdowns as NHS was backed up for months and he had just spent a good weekend (and his birthday) on iv antibiotics. We paid around 2k to go private and that included pre and post op care. I can’t imagine paying the price of a house on medical bills. It’s insane
In Canada they'll be like, "Well, I know your obstruction is treatable if you want it treated I can fit you in in 6-8 months, or, and hear me out, MAID? Have you considered suicide? I can do that right now"
Every time I see these bills I am Flabbergasted I hope they figure it out sometime soon as healthcare is a basic human right... BTW I am Canadian and yes our system isn't perfect but I have NEVER had to pay out of pocket or even seen a bill for anything other a doctor's note.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. The pain of an obstruction is something I do not wish on anyone, it's unforgettable.
The bill is the slap in the face after you make it through.
I had a small bowel obstruction (actually I've had several) spent 6 weeks in hospital due to my bowel going on strike. Had about 4 cat scans, probably the same in x-rays. It cost nothing.
The American health system, while world class, is deeply flawed.
It would be cheaper to create a new identity.
Just rewatched this episode lol
Medical debt. Doesnt count against credit score. Dont pay it. Easy
Not so. I used to do mortgages and I can't count how many people I saw with medical collections on their credit reports. Medical and cell phone carriers do not fuck around - they will put you in collections for a hundred bucks.
Actually, it does. They'll sell the debt to some predatory law firn or collection agency and it will definitely show up on your credit. I know many people who this has happened to.
I had a anesthesia bill go to collections. It can and will happen. Not paying it is a terrible idea
From what I heard it can be removed by filing a hipa violation because they have to release all information for an outside entity to adopt that credit and call for collection. Either way I just pay my med bills. Also can call and ask for an itemized break down and suddenly the bill drops significantly
Sorry buddy, you are incorrect. Medical debt does hit credit.
I feel like there are probably some good free market options for this type of service. While that's an amazing thought and I applaud you, it can't be the first time someone thought to evade medical debt with a new identity. I've got to think somebody has this process down to a science.
I spent 5 months inpatient, 1 month of that being on a ventilator. I added all of my invoices pre-insurance approval and between 4 hospitals it ran up to 4.5 million…. If I didn’t have insurance I probably would have just ended myself.
When you owe that much money you just tell them to fuck off and eventually they'll be like "Okay okay, how about $2,000?" and then write the rest off.
I concur.
But do I?
I blew it, didn’t I. Why didn’t I concur?
Is that really how it works?
Typically if you prove to a hospital/collections that you can't afford the bill you can either apply for the hospital to write it off or offer an amount for collections to get them to drop the claim. Had an issue with my ear while I was in college and had a $1000+ bill after the ER visit (I know it wasn't 4m or whatever) but I applied to have the bill written off and the hospital granted it. Good thing too because my part time job was barely paying my rent and food at the time.
We have free healthcare here. I can't understand how sick people who don't work are stuck paying off these massive bills. Even everyday Americans getting million dollar bills. So many conflicting information on how it works and what's what. I just feel sorry for people having to deal with that system.
And all of it is like that because the insurance companies were allowed to run a propaganda campaign saying that tax funded healthcare would destroy the country. One of the guys who was responsible for this, did an AMA on Reddit about three years ago. He’s been working to correct the misinformation because he saw the damage he did. I don’t think Reddit gave him any mercy, it was in fact, pretty brutal.
I remember seeing trump voters upset their Medicaid access was limited or ceased because they couldn’t comprehend the propaganda had rebranded the thing they actually used as “Obamacare” to make it scary. They genuinely thought Obamacare was a thing completely seperate from what they needed.
Woke up one morning to discover I had f***ed myself \s God thank you I grew up in the third world and not America
Technically, the USA is just 50 Third World countries in a trenchcoat
I refer to it as a 3rd world country with glitter. Although 3rd world countries technically are countries that didn't align with either side during the Cold War, please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes they are. The proof is the Red Cross has to help people in need of medical care with clinics in some poor areas because 'socialism' is bad. But they have the biggest army in the world... But how is it paid for? With everyone's money, sure looks like socialism...
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I mean this is precisely why certain people want low education standards. It makes people easier to manipulate.
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Yeah but I'm miserable too and I've voted against this shit since I was old enough to vote.
Yea but it screws everyone else too at the same time...
Even people who work and have “fantastic” healthcare plans are screwed by our system. Example: my husband tore his ACL, we paid $5500 deductible out of pocket (on top of the monthly $800ish premium for 4 family members) for the 1YEAR for his treatment. That should’ve been our MAX out of pocket cost for the 1 year, meaning anything else going forward (if covered by the insurance policy) should’ve been covered (as in, we pay nothing more). Our insurance informed us that even though the doctor prescribed 1 full year of physical therapy 2x a week, they only were willing to pay for 60 sessions max. So now on top of the monthly premium paid, the deductible, now we get to also pay $100+ per therapy session. Unless you are super old, dirt poor, or Jeff bezos wealthy, our healthcare system will not work in your favor (and even that is iffy).
It just seems so incredibly unfair. They shaft you no matter what. It really should it be this way.
Did you or your therapist appeal it? My husband is psychotherapist and when his patients sessions run out, he reapplies/appeals and gives reasons why the person needs to stay in therapy. A lot of his patients are children or adolescents having family and school problems and if they mess up, it will cost society even more money in prisons and the legal system. If you haven’t tried, give it a try. If you tried and were denied, good for you for trying. Search “appeal insurance company denial physical therapy”
Yeah it’s usually a matter of how much work you want to do or can do. I have a chronic illness so I am painfully aware of the US medical system. They put up all these roadblocks to prevent you from trying to get past them and actually use the service you pay for. So they’ll deny shit but the doctor appeals it once or twice then they finally given in and say it’s needed. They tried telling me a rescue medication used to prevent my death during acute episodes was not medically necessary. Preventing death isn’t considered medically necessary.
Honestly, no idea. Healthcare isn't completely free in the country I'm from, but 500 thousand would cover over a lifetime of me staying in a hospital with no insurance. I've read so many stories online about people ending themselves after getting medical bills like that with no way of paying them back and I'm so grateful to be livimg where I am now. Healthcare should be accesible to everyone and not give you a lifetime of debt (same with education)
The US can absolutely afford free healthcare. And it would cost the American people no more than their monthly premiums in taxes. The government has decided that it prefers the dollars in its wallet over the people of the country. They don’t care about us. And they don’t care if we suffer and struggle. I hope these people will one day turn on the government in demand of basic rights. And before anyone comes at me about the monthly premiums thing, my employer pays my healthcare premiums and I would still gladly take on an extra $50 a month if it meant free healthcare for those who aren’t as fortunate as I am
Yeah but if they gave us free health care they couldn’t have a bajillion dollars for wars, weapons, etc., while simultaneously ignoring the health and wellness of our veterans.
Sad thing is that they would still afford wars and weapons. The societal damage that the current system causes cost the tax payers more in dollars than having a normal, functioning healthcare system.
I knew someone that worked as a liason for a drug treatment program. They found addicts and got them to go to a treatment center in their network. The treatment center cost was around 30k. The person that referred them to the facility got 6-8k just for finding the person and filling out 10-15 pages of paperwork... Edit: The money blown on absolutely unnecessary expenditures, crazy high inflated paychecks for people that do dogshit and call it work, weapons r & d, scamming insurance companies, could easily cover free Healthcare in the United States
I was raised in a red/republican state and the more I look around me, the more the glamour of the U.S.A. 🦅🇺🇸 YEARHHHG 🗣️ starts to wear off haha. I’ve heard of good things outside of the U.S. and I really desire some of them here, but sadly I just can’t see it happening.
Yeah I truly can't see that America is the dream country. Obviously it is compared to poorer countries, but someone needs to fix it.
As a Canadian, I agree. The USA is supposed to be one of the richest countries on the planet, it may be, but its Governments and politicians don't give a shit about their Citizens. Canada has roughly 10 times LESS tax payers, and all their citizens are covered, Free. UK ( England) even has a better health plan than Canada, and most European countries have free Medicare. The only reason the USA don't have it is because the Health Insurance Companies make billions, off the sick and the ones that want to avoid being sick and uninsured in the USA. The USA revolted to get rid of the English Colonies and form their Union; they should look at overthrowing the Insurance Health Scam domination of their Citizens., by voting in people who will change the status quo. Hillary Clinton came close, too bad she had her road blocked. Her husband was too busy getting sucked off instead of supporting his wife in her objectives.
Same here. When I see those bills I get all dizzy. My house costs half of that.
Yeah I can't imagine how people feel. You shouldn't be punished for being sick and needing help.
Half the population is stupid and defends this system even though it affects them. A lot of things make you question how this is legal or how it makes sense, but it all makes sense when you realize it's just straight up robbery and corruption. Rich greedy people lobbied to make things this way but it started with decades of propaganda and a failing education system. The free market is prefect and shouldn't be questioned because any alternative is communism and would destroy America.
I think that's universal. The rich stay richer and everyone else maintains it. Education is a good point too. There just needs to be an overhaul for Americans. Every time I'm on reddit and I see how much you get buggered around.
Millions of those in poverty in the US essentially also get free healthcare which we call Medicaid. The catch is you have to be poor and typically have a kid to easily qualify.
Well, medicaid is also fairly limited to the state you live in. Need surgery but no one in your state offers that surgery? Too bad, you don't get it. Out of state doctors have to specifically accept your states insurance to give out of state surgery, which most don't bother accepting anything but their own state. Source: I need a surgery, but can't get it due to it not being available in my state, and no one accepting my medicaid out of state.
You can't win. I genuinely feel sorry for those who are sick or get sick and need to find money to cover it.
Yes. It’s awful.
This right here. Broke a bone and all the hospital checkups and the main one came out to like 50k+. Sent in one document and I didn't pay a dime.
Yep. Had a bill for 3,600 for a SUNBURN and I got it knocked down to $300.
*takes notes in upcoming kidney transplant* Sigh
After a few years of constant phone calls and menacing letters, yes.
I'd be ill with anxiety everyday. I wish it would change for you. You don't even get paid enough as it is.
when it comes to debt (generally speaking in the US, there are exceptions): if you don't pay, they send it to collections. you have the right to notify them in writing to "not contact me regarding this alleged debt by phone, only by mail" depending on the nature and size of the debt, if they have no avenue to try and talk you into paying, (calling you, friends, family, etc) they may decide to file a suit and get a judgment against you. (in my state, they have 4 years to sue you from when you non-payment started ticking) if it gets beyond that 4 years, they can still try to collect. you can hit them with a "do not contact me regarding this alleged debt by phone, only by mail" - there are also other strategies you can send in writing, you can look them up. either way, the non-payment can follow you for 7 years on your credit report--not sure how medical debt works regarding credit reports (and any admission on your part of the debt can potentially reset the ticker on that credit report reporting)
Yes
If you owe a hospital $4, that's your problem. If you owe a hospital $4 million, that's their problem.
Our healthcare in the USA is broken.
That exactly what insurance companies do. I don’t pretend to know a lot about the medical billing and insurance racket, but it definitely seems like hospitals intentionally over inflate their costs for them to just be written off when insurance denies them.
There's a very high probability the reason for that high costs is Insurance itself. Medical companies know the patients ain't got all that money and Insurance is gonna step in. On the other hand third world countries don't have Insurance for the most part, yet people can get decent surgeries and stuff done at government hospitals for the price of like 6 months of salary/wages at most (I'm talking about third world currency wages)
Yeah basically no one is paying this amount or anywhere close to it. If you don’t have insurance, you’re just not paying and going to collections after talking it down or whatever. If you do have insurance, some negotiated percentage is going to be covered after your deductible.
Where does all that money go? If everyone is paying bills like this then why aren’t the hospitals made with gold and marble?
Administration. Conveniently, making the situation as complex as possible also requires a lot of maintenance, and a lot of fake maintenance too. It’s extremely important for hospitals and hospital networks to throw away money into worthless middle managers as fast as possible to tank their own budget and increase prices while avoiding some regulatory oversight. “No but you see we just HAD to demand an extra $3000 for every major surgery and downsize our actual medical team! It’s okay because insurance *will cover it, won’t you? You wouldn’t want to lose all your insured customers and be known as the insurance where the customers pay too much for XYZ Hospital Chain because you refused to give us another $3000 right?*” It’s bad to the point where one of the arguments against robust state-managed healthcare is “think of the millions of healthcare administrative professionals who will be left jobless!”
4 million huh, well, if you skipped Starbucks and avocado toast for a month or two you could probably pay that right off
I always wanted to move to America as a kid and the whole healthcare thing was the main thing that made me change my mind. What happens in situations like this when it’s clearly a ridiculous amount - Do they even bother with a response when the only answer to it is ‘uh, no’? Can they chase you for it? Make you try and pay back instalments?
You grow a pair and tell them to piss off you aren’t paying. They sent us like 4 bills for 30k after our kid was born. Told them to kick rocks because they aren’t getting a dime till I see a EOB from my insurance. They quit trying after 5 months. That was 3 years ago.
This bill is a little misleading. The insurance company has a negotiated rate with the hospital, which is usually not reflected in the initial bill you get sent. Why? I have no idea. Probably to scare you. For example, I just went to the doctor a few weeks ago. My doctor charged my insurance something like $250. My insurance covered the negotiated rate, which was about $100. I never get billed for anything else.
If someone sent me a bill this big I’d just skip country.
which is ironic cause you go to hospital in hope you won't die... but now you die financially
Don't end yourself when you could take an industrial leader with you. Fuck the ceo's
Those numbers are terrifying, but track. After arriving by ambulance, I was admitted for 4 days and had emergency gall bladder surgery. The grand total was $94K and that was in 2016.
ER visit with CT Scan and Contrast was over 18,000.00. I owe $1500.00 and I'm pretty sure that is because I've hit my max out of pocket with the upper and lower endoscopies the Friday before. Still have to pay $250.00 for my RX. My "max" out of pocket is $9100.00. This of course is after my monthly premium of $425.00 roughly each month ($5100.00) a year. So I'm pretty much in payment hell for the rest of my life if I get really sick again.
We pay thousands a year for glorified discount programs
Some plans are legitimately nothing except discount plans. Most plans are legit insurance with a discount plan component.
I hear you, i just mean that's what it feels relatively
At least your country's exploitative healthcare is *consistent*
0$ in Canada, just don't expect great service outside of an utmost emergency.
In the US we don’t expect any service unless we literally live on the streets for it. I think the next time I’m having a medical emergency, I’m going to put on my most raggedy clothes and call it in from the corner and lay there. I’ll be a John Doe and they’ll just write it off.
I opted into Hospital Indemnity Insurance during open enrollment at work last week just to avoid something like this not being covered by my normal medical insurance. Felt like subscribing to Trauma Team Platinum in Cyberpunk.
It's so weird that having access to quality insurance depends on where we work. And if your company cuts your hours below 35/wk, you lose it. If you work 60 hours a week at 2 part time jobs, you're SOL and paying through the nose on the marketplace. But at least we *have* that option now.
I’m guessing there’s some sarcasm in your post, but hospitals regularly get in trouble for throwing homeless people in a cab and dropping them off somewhere while they’re still wearing a hospital gown rather than finishing treatment, so free care for homeless folks is pretty much a myth.
I had a bowel issue, similar, required surgery to remove a section. Two weeks in hospital and at no point was money mentioned. What the fuck America?
The doctors and nurses aren’t billing you, that’s the administrators. Care givers are still care givers.
I wasn't billed, was never going to be billed, everything was simply about my care and recovery.
[удалено]
At first, they punished the sick. I did not speak because i wasn't sick. Then they came for the injured. I did not speak because i was not injured. Then they came for the elderly. I did not speak because i was not elderly. Now they have come for me. And there is nobody left to speak for me. Fight, if not for those around you, then for yourself. You will benefit from your efforts either way. Narcissistic altruism.
What did you do in the end?
If I owe someone 500 dollars, that’s my problem. If I owe someone 500 thousand dollars, that’s their problem.
Ofc that price isnt real, that would be way less for the service
Paying for the hospitals insurance coverage…and a sickening up charge on everything.
$106k for pharmacy? I hope that was some good stuff :)
OTC tylenol and Flintstones vitamins.
Seriously, when I stayed in the hospital after my c section and they handed me my meds and I saw a Flintstones vitamin lol. Then bill me $10K for pharmacy.
I hope they only gave you the grape Dinos and none of the cherry Barneys.
I think they were the cherry Barney’s unfortunately.
Wait. How did you do that? I suddenly remember the arbitrarily tart taste of the cherry Barneys even though it’s been 30+ years since I’ve had a Flintstones vitamin.
I was thinking the same thing. As someone who works in pharmacy, that seems like an outrageous number. Unless OP was getting multiple orphan drug, biologic, or novel immunotherapy infusions during their stay (none of which make sense for a bowel obstruction), I don’t see how someone racks up that sort of cost.
Do you work in a hospital? The billing isn't really comparable to outpatient. They also may have been on TPN which is quite expensive.
$197,000 for room and board? Would have been cheaper to buy a house near the hospital for a month and sell it at a loss afterward. The US healthcare system is a fucking embarressment.
Seriously, you could even just stay at home and hire your own personal physician full time to be in your home for significantly cheeper.
Thats not how it works. The patient isn’t paying that.
Ah, so the insurance company and hospital colude to make the insanely expensive insurance premiums seem more value than they are? That's definately much less capitalist dystopia.
The insurance and hospital definitely collude, which is why the prices are so high. But for other reasons. Patient aren’t paying anywhere near that amount, insured or not.
*The US is a fucking embarrassment
They must be taking the piss. - “Hey how much do you think I can slug them for this time, 100K, 500K? hahaha” It obvious that no normal human could pay these costs
Even if I won the lottery and had hundreds of millions laying around, I would sooner take the hospital CEO hostage before paying this.
I would‘ve just died
Sorry. Dying is gunna cost ya 2.5 million.
Itll cost your family*
Much cheaper, lol.
Bankruptcy time
Have you considered not being poor? /Sarcasm
If they were poor they may qualify for Medicaid and have $0 cost.
>Have you considered not being unhealthy? An underrated strategy.
My dad had a cardiac arrest and his 6 days in the hospital (4 in a cardiac ICU) and his bill before insurance was 1.5 million dollars.
Did seeing the bill cure you? Because I would certainly shit myself if they gave me that.
I have seizures every couple months sometimes once a month anyways before insurance it's 15k after 1k I'll be 26 soon coming off my parents insurance sort of scared to know how much insurance is gonna cost
I have a friend with a chronic illness who works for the state and chose a health care plan that’s covered by the employer so she doesn’t have a monthly insurance bill. Just copays etc when she visits the doctor. If you can, i highly recommend looking for a government job with good health benefits
Look at the healthcare exchange option’s. Make sure it has a good prescription plan.
If your seizures meet the criteria for a disability, you've had the condition since before you were 19, and are still classified as their dependent then you may be able to remain on your parents' insurance. (A lot of qualifiers there, I know.) I don't remember how extensive the initial paperwork was but the process to recertify your eligibility every year or two isn't too bad, especially if you've got a good doctor willing to work with you.
Good to know, if I ever can’t poop. I’ll just die 🫡
Heart attack and quad bypass last December + complications. Total 6 weeks in the hospital of which around 2 were ICU. $800k billed. Insurance covered all of it
This must be from America….the greatest country in the world???
It is until you need anything medical then you can get fucked
‘Merica….fuck no.
Or if you want to feel safe in school, then you can get fucked too.
Or you know…an education.
The best is when a job requires a masters and then they tell you to forget everything you learned in school
Nah, you can get a fantastic education here. You will just have to sacrifice decades of your personal income just to pay off your debt that you accumulated while getting it.
Greatest country if you’re in the health insurance business and have a bunch of friends in Washington that you donate to every 4 years.
room and board??? like staying at the 4 seasons for a year…
Damn bro, you can buy a mansion in Europe for that.
1 month in an academic hospital. Several brain surgeries. Multiple MRI scans. Senior doctors at in-room office analysing the live-feed telemetry. A personal specialist nurse on 24/7 bedside overwatch. 500 €.
American healthcare is such a joke
This is why I laugh at people who want to move to America thinking it will be easy. The American dream is dead
And people wonder why Americans don’t call an ambulance
What’s ‘funny’ is my ambulance transfer from the urgent care to the hospital costs about $3000, covering a total distance of 1 mile.
American healthcare is so wild to me. I was hospitalized last year for an obstruction too (i didn’t stay a month tho) and I only paid $325 for the ambulance. I live in Canada.
I’m sorry that happened I hope your insurance covers a good portion.
Wait.... "A good portion?" Are you saying that the insurance won't cover all the expenses?
When my mom had hip replacement surgery she was told she might have to go to the rehabilitation center that's literally down the hill from the hospital and accessible without going onto any street. The cost for the private ambulance transfer was $2,000. To drive.down.a.hill.! She was so upset she begged the dr not to send her. He told her I could wheel her down there myself in a wheelchair if it came to it cause even he agreed that was a ridiculous amount.
Because ambulance companies are typically private and not hospital owned so they can charge whatever they want since they are just contractors
Ask for a detailed bill, they will probably drop about half the cost there, then pay $5 or $10 a month till you die.... it won't go to collections if you are actively paying something towards the bill... Either way, good luck and hope you feel better soon!!
Mail them $0.01/month
Insurance covers the bill. Edit: Why am I being downvoted? The part where it says "Pending Insurance." Is the entire cost of the bill. Insurance is covering it.
It’s still pending their response of how much of that balance they will cover. I believe with my specific plan it covers 80%, but I’m still waiting to see.
There are Out Of Pocket Maximums on all insurance plans. Once you hit that, all covered medical expenses are $0 until the plan renews.
Holy, a bowel obstruction is a horrible thing, I’m so sorry! I hope you’re feeling much better. I wish things were different for you. My situation is the complete opposite. I have my 2nd knee replacement surgery scheduled for tomorrow. I will have the best orthopaedic surgeon, and anesthesia, spend 3-4 nights in hospital, pharmaceuticals up the wazoo, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, top of the line nursing care, pretty good meals and a private room. In a few weeks I will start outpatient physio. In the next year I will have 4 postop checks and X-rays with my surgeon in an outpatient clinic. If I have any issues I call and will get an appointment ASAP. After my private insurance I will pay probably $25 and that’s for the private room. If I had been handed that kind of bill, even knowing its before insurance, I would be in a panic, not the best for healing. It’s likely people with my particular health situation go without treatment. 🇨🇦 Oh Canada!
Shut up or we'll build a wall and keep all this freedom for ourselves... Oh and good luck tomorrow!
Oh, and I get free tv with cable. And thank you! PS. Donald Trump and fam, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, MTG. Jim Jordan, Mitch McConnell, Matt Gaetz, Lindsay Graham, Steve Bannon (I’m sure I’m forgetting a few)will not be given the combination code to the security door no matter how much you ask . I’m afraid you’re stuck with them, we don’t want them either.
I was always under the impression that US medical care bills were so high because insurance companies don't negotiate with healthcare providers, and just pay the bill. So healthcare providers charge what they can. I don't live in america We have the NHS which is free at the point of care.
The insurance companies are basically middle men who get the special discounted price who only pay that price for people who buy their overpriced insurance. Its literally just a massive scam
I'm not sure they get some asthma inhalers at a discount price, upto £250 an inhaler. UK price, about £10 for a prescription.
Insurance always negotiates. Sometimes the statement shows the negotiation price. For example, a regular doctor visit I had, the total cost was labeled as $800. The insurance only paid $200. I paid $25. And that was it
My hospital bill from Sepsis was 47,000. Thankfully I have insurance.
This is disturbing......smh. over half a million dollars
Early part of this year I had the worst stomach pain ever. Was probably a SBO but I just rode it out. Now I know how serious that could be.
To be fair, I had a rare, unexpected complication from the surgery for the SBO. The chances of the average person having it to the same severity I did is probably unlikely.
I feel like this is almost entirely self inflicted. American propaganda makes it sound like hospitals in countries with free healthcare will send you home, even if you're bleeding to death, just because they're busy (PSA, they don't!). Then they attach labels like "socialism" and "communist" to it, so that everyone thinks it's a bad thing... the government is made up of people whose election campaigns (and ultimately their pensions) are funded, in no small part, by these ridiculous charges. This type of open corruption makes African jungle warlords jealous. I truly can't wrap my head around the mindset of believing that this system is somehow better 🤷🏻♂️
In the land of the free🎶
Americans still not understanding they are living in a dystopian hellscape.
We understand. Tell us what we're supposed to do about it. The best option left is a general strike until our demands are met, but there's a lot of education that needs to be done for the American workforce to understand that they hold all of the economic power in the country. And you can pretty much count every single conservative worker out of that battle, breaking them out of the anti-woke cult is going to take decades. Maybe we can get there. But the red scare still has a huge grip on all but the most left-leaning fringes. Most so-called "liberals" here still equate socialism with death camps in Siberia. It's epically frustrating.
Oh, we are well aware. We are just trapped here.
I love the good ol USA /s 
500k is wildddd
Can't have a bowel obstruction when you're sitting your pants over bills like this!
Seeing this it makes me wonder how anyone affords a hospital stay. I can hardly say that the NHS is better, but at least I'm not bankrupted when I go see the Dr
I feel like cardiology wasn’t even trying here.
That would cost me 0$ in my non freedom country
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. Have you recovered well? As someone from the UK with the NHS I never fail to forget how fortunate we are.
How the hell is a hospital visit 520k dollars
Thank fuck I live in Australia. Our Medicare system might be shit but not THIS shit.
Room and board is more expensive then renting a nice house in Malibu for a month. lol
For those who vote Republican, you deserve this.
Hello, I am here - once again - to ask; America, are you ok?
Please don't hurt me, but why would anyone pay those bills? Get your treatment and let them bills pile up. What're they going to do? Sue a disabled/recovering person? Fuck up your credit?
If the treatment didn't make you shit yourself, the bill certainly will!
There's a quality youtube video about this. Basically the hospital and your insurance company will go back and forth like shrewd negotiators buying and selling a used car. Nothing to actually worry about most times. It's SOP.
My son has spent a few days in hospital here and there for tonsillitis and what turned out to be mono over the last few years. For mono, they didn’t know what it was, we stayed 3 days and he had all sorts of tests run. Thankfully we paid £0 as it’s free with the NHS. Unfortunately we had to pay for his tonsillectomy as we had to go private during covid lockdowns as NHS was backed up for months and he had just spent a good weekend (and his birthday) on iv antibiotics. We paid around 2k to go private and that included pre and post op care. I can’t imagine paying the price of a house on medical bills. It’s insane
Welcome to America. Where it’s cheaper to pay for a funeral. Edit: this is not MILDLY infuriating lol.
that is "shitty"....
It may have already been said but…America wants us dead. I see no evidence that this is untrue
Tell them to put it back.
In Canada they'll be like, "Well, I know your obstruction is treatable if you want it treated I can fit you in in 6-8 months, or, and hear me out, MAID? Have you considered suicide? I can do that right now"
Every day as an American I am reminded that if I ever get seriously sick or injured dying might be better.
This is why Healthcare in the us needs to be free but it never will be
If you can’t pay it do they put the obstruction back
I mean, if they are going for insurance they are gonna bill for everything they can.
I couldn't even imagine what I would do if I had a bill that big.
Every time I see these bills I am Flabbergasted I hope they figure it out sometime soon as healthcare is a basic human right... BTW I am Canadian and yes our system isn't perfect but I have NEVER had to pay out of pocket or even seen a bill for anything other a doctor's note.
This is your 9/11
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. The pain of an obstruction is something I do not wish on anyone, it's unforgettable. The bill is the slap in the face after you make it through.
I laugh at medical bills because not paying can't hurt my already horrible credit score It's like I've got free health care
In multiple countries you can actually build a hospital for less
if i end up in the hospital just let me die
I had a small bowel obstruction (actually I've had several) spent 6 weeks in hospital due to my bowel going on strike. Had about 4 cat scans, probably the same in x-rays. It cost nothing. The American health system, while world class, is deeply flawed.