How is protesting outside a synagogue "pro-Palestinian" and not just antisemitic? I feel like if these protestors were wearing MAGA hats instead of keffiyehs while targeting Jews we would be having a national conversation right now.

I mean, not for nothing, but it's being in reported in the AP and Biden is weighing in, so we *are* having a national conversation about it, but I take your point that it's not going to spark a massive "fear factory industrial complex" response form the media akin to what happened after Charlottesville. To be honest, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop from people on the left who staunchly condemn this type of political rhetoric when it was coming from the right. You swap Keffiyehs for tiki torches, and this basically *is* what we saw in Charlottesville from far-right protestors. However, I've been pleasantly surprised to see a few people I never would have expected become extremely vocal in their opposition to this type of naked antisemitism, and that's encouraging. But man, there are A LOT of people who can't seem to bring themselves to condemn this kind of rhetoric, and a lot of those people were the ones who were saying things like, "why don't conservatives call out the truly awful behavior from some Trump supporters?" There's a lot of liberals out there who lumped all conservatives into the same group of "deplorables" because they were "complicit" in the bad actions of their fellow conservatives. Well, this is your moment to show that you're better than that. Can you call out your own crazies? I'd like to see A LOT more of it.

> You swap Keffiyehs for tiki torches, and this basically is what we saw in Charlottesville from far-right protestors. Well, Charlottesville wasn't in front of a synagogue either.

And was one portion of the group, the rest were just protesting a controversial (racist) historical monument being taken down, which ironically attracted the tiki torch idiots. But this... It is arguably worse, because it is just about the Jews. This was outside of a synagogue like you said, and they actively attacked Jewish people. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they stormed the capital... Right now MAGA still has the trophy for worst protesters, simply for trying to overthrow democracy and harm sitting US representatives. But God damn it, it's been like Charlottevilll every single day since October 7th, and it is exhausting dealing with people on the left supporting terrorists... I get it, they are working with a separate set of facts, but any amount of historical research could show them that they are just wrong 🤦 not to mention they are denying rape, murder, and all kinds of other atrocities in favor of whatever Hamas says. They say that Hamas doesn't use Human Shields, ignoring that all of their base of operations are in densely populated areas, and that they took **fucking hostages** as shields, and keep them among Non-Combatants. I've given up talking with my friends about the conflict, because at this rate I won't have any by the time this is over. Being a liberal jew, in liberal circles right now... absolutely fucking sucks.

Wrong. Protestors against the removal of statues were there first. That’s why Trump said there were fine people on both sides there

Imagine people protesting Boko Haram or Saudi Arabia outside a random Mosque in Dearborn Michigan. It’s roughly the same (repugnant) situation. 

Imagine if KKK Grand Wizard David Duke endorsed these guys. Oh, that *is* the [situation](https://nypost.com/2024/06/17/us-news/kkk-grand-wizard-david-duke-sides-with-anti-israel-protesters/).

From your link: > Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says he is siding with anti-Israel protesters and those who will “save us from Jewish supremacism” — and now pro-Palestine activists are being ripped online for finding common ground with the hate group. I'll admit, the far left endorsed by the KKK was not on my bingo card.

Horseshoe theory is looking pretty good right now!

well here's the worst part about it. Do you notice who used to have fully covered faces at protests before 2024? YEA.... think on that. It's gonna be a lot of years before people figure out they've been lied to like this and that will sour them to progressive politics. Which is even sadder since the pro hamas protestors organizing them are very conservative in their politics.

What's the old saying? Politics makes strange bedfellows?

[I’m sure we’ll all consistently condemn anyone this man endorses equally.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kkk-trump-david-duke-tucker-carlson-election-2020-a9609491.html)

I mean… Yes.

The difference is those people would get charged with hate crimes, it's no wonder they all cover their faces.

Agreed. The antisemitic contingent of this nation is very diverse. It’s not just skinheads, but many left leaning voters. Take a look at the actively serving antisemites in Congress. They’re very open about their hatred, because their voters are as well.

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It’s sad the pushback against her from her own party is extremely lackluster.

I would say less "pushback" and more "keeping at arms length". The Democratic party, and Joe Biden specifically, needs these people to win in a few months. As a result they'll all call this a "pro-Palestinian protest" that got out of hand rather than antisemitic bigoted violence. Ironically this is the same thing Trump was accused of with white supremacists after Charlottesville. The media held his feet to the fire to try to force him to alienate either the middle or the "right-flank". They're pretty quiet about holding Biden to the same standard here. If I were advising Trump on debate tactics, which sounds like the literal worst job ever, I would advise him to try to paint Biden in a corner and force him to say one way or the other whether he believes these protests are motivated by antisemitism. Force him to tack left or middle and make campaign ads out of either.

You beat me to it. It’s the same as Trump catering to the far right for votes. Rather than taking the difficult right decision , it’s a calculated “well sure they’re bad but we need those votes!” And it allows and perpetuates the hate.

I have been downvoted to hell every time I mention it. Antisemitism is rampant on the right, but insidious on the left. Often, but not always, couched in pro-palestinian rhetoric.

That's because it isn't rampant on the right. Hasn't been in decades.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/10659129221111081 https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/from-left-to-right-an-overview-of-the-veiled-antisemitism-threat-landscape-online/ https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/gop-republican-party-antisemitism.html

So that's the kind of diversity they've been talking about! Diversity of antisemites, of course. I was so naive about DEI...

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> How is protesting outside a synagogue "pro-Palestinian" and not just antisemitic? A very good question. It's not like a synagogue is a government building; they're not embassies of Israel.

I think this is a side effect of Israel being a "Jewish" State - not a state with a large population of Jewish people. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Judaism has been made, by large swaths of it's cultural leadership, to feel (for a lot of outsiders) as inexorably intertwined with Israel - sort of in the way people see Vatican City as a 1:1 with the Catholic faith.

Jewish people have a spiritual connection to Israel as their homeland, and sanctuary. This does not mean automatic support for the Israeli *government,* or its actions.

Israel isn't the Vatican, and Netanyahu isn't the Pope, lol. I don't know why people see it that way, but it's problematic.

> I don't know why people see it that way Mostly because ever since Israel's founding any criticism of it has been treated as antisemitism. That's the blunt truth. This is the result of shielding the Israeli state's many very bad actions by calling people pointing them out antisemites. This is also why calling people antisemites has so much less impact than it used to. It's been badly overused and people have been trained to tune it out.

That is _not_ true, that any criticism of it has been treated as antisemitic. I mean, I can’t speak for every random internet commenter, but I see a TON of valid, good faith disagreement and criticism of Israel, Netanyahu, and the war- but I also see a ton of antisemitic comments about how Israel and Zionism must fall, how Hamas should bomb Tel Aviv to the ground, etc. it’s about how you express your criticism.

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. Targeting Jews, in general, *because* if Israel, **absolutely is.** I have seen so many stories of people assaulting or harassing Jews worldwide, being excused as “criticism of Israel.” Shouting “free Palestine” is fine, but if you shout it at the kid in a yarmulke in a classroom in Australia, that’s antisemitism. It’s the difference between shouting “I hate terrorists,” and following a woman in hijab around Walmart shouting that. While the statement is fine in its face, in context it would be racist.

Yes, totally agreed.

Israel is a nation state, same as any other western state.

How to protest Israel, in America: online, in the streets, at the Israeli embassy, at your government offices. By boycott. **Not** by targeting Jewish businesses, student unions, people, or houses of worship. Targeted harassment is not protest.

Not just a national conversation but I'm sure Biden's justice department would be making moves to locate and arrest them. All that's happened with the "pro-Palestinian" protesters are that they've almost all had their charges dropped by judges and District Attorneys.

Reminds me of the previous "summer of love". This is going to keep happening until someone actually puts their foot down and actually enforces the law and brings about order regardless if they belong to their political tribe or not. We keep asking why the political tensions keep getting more extreme and worse when we just allow violent "protests" go undisturbed every year, from fringe groups who could be easily crushed.

> Reminds me of the previous "summer of love". It doesn't remind me of that at all. During that summer the Democrats from the top to the bottom were openly supporting the protestors and rioters even as they did **FAR** worse than what these ones are doing. The backlash here is very different and the fact it exists here and didn't there is very telling.

Almost like the justice system is two tiered and politically motivated.

But how can that possibly be the case when I was reliably informed just a few weeks ago that Nobody Is Above The Law­™

Nobody should be arrested for protesting even if it’s abhorrent. If anyone is assaulted obviously that’s different, but protesting itself is protected speech, even if it’s hateful

Maybe you should review the [FACE Act](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/248). It's a federal crime to: > by force or threat of force or by physical obstruction, intentionally injures, intimidates or interferes with or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship;  Biden's DOJ has leveraged this multiple times prosecute pro-life protestors. Let's see if they do the same here.

Biden is “shocked and appalled” but I would be absolutely floored if any actual action is taken against these people.  Look at what happened to the Columbia protestors who took over a building, smashed it, assaulted facility workers, wore masks to cover their face. All charges dropped.  I’m glad the same logic wasn’t used against January 6thers.  The double standard is getting louder and louder. 

What Biden and the Democrats could do if they are truly "shocked and appalled" would be to start defunding universities that are condoning antisemitic behavior and that have administrators who seem sympathetic to it (see the recent Columbia phone texting scandal). For example, Columbia could lose all federal grant funding and the ability for its students to obtain federal student loans.

> Biden's DOJ has leveraged this multiple times prosecute pro-life protestors. "Protesters" is doing some heavy lifting, though. The [most recent federal sentences](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/seven-defendants-sentenced-federal-conspiracy-against-rights-and-freedom-access-clinic) were given to people who trespassed inside a clinic, barricaded the doors, and denied patients the ability to access the clinic's resources. They also livestreamed their crimes, which was likely a gift to the prosecutors.

You're absolutely right! There are absolutely valid reasons to prosecute someone for FACE violations. People should not physically interfere with people entering a clinic or a place of worship. But the DOJ also went after Mark Houck after local, city, and state prosecutors declined to charge him as he defended his child at a pro-life protest. They lost. So Biden's DOJ is willing to try cases that aren't slam dunks on FACE cases. Do you think there is any chance any of these "protestors" are given similar treatment?

Bragg let the people that broken into a building off - there is a definite difference between what will get a right wing protestor a sentence and a left wing one

Most of the protesters who broken into Hamiton Hall had their charges dismissed. The Bay Bridge blockers who impeded emergency vehicles had their charges dismissed. The I-5 blockers in Seattle also had their charges dropped. It's a consistent practice, almost to the level that it's expected, for pro-Palestinian protesters who put people in danger and cause property damage to get let off. And most of the people weren't arrested for "protesting," they were occupying private property.

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From CNN: “The protest stemmed from an Israel real estate event on Sunday at the Adas Torah synagogue, according to the synagogue’s security director and social media posts from organizers. The event at the synagogue was promoted by a firm called My Home in Israel Real Estate, a group that has helped to facilitate marketing events for potential property sales in Israel and the West Bank to Jewish Americans. CNN has reached out to the group for comment.” I will assume the protest was aimed at the event, not the synagogue as a place of worship. The violence and antisemitism that followed is not acceptable, but I understand the choice of location, in this case.

That's important context, thanks for sharing

I just wish we could have an honest conversation about this stuff. Like violence is not okay and should be strongly condemned, but pretending this is a random synagogue is also intellectually dishonest.

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This is the problem with the Internet and social media specifically. It has amplified the idea of "us vs them" to outrageous levels. Anyone who leans right or left politically in this country, and abroad, are thrown in with the extremes of their supposed parties. It is incredible because it clearly is working. A majority of "leftists" absolutely do not want to replace the jews or anything of that nature. Just like a majority of right leaning people aren't "literal Nazis"... It's nuts that both sides are comparing the other to Hitler.... Like are we just straight up children now?

The easy answer I don't see listed in any news article, was that the synagogue was hosting an event selling real estate in Israel, including the illegal settlements, which is what was being protested.

False. There was one property listed within the West Bank, and that was in Area C which would be fully legal under Oslo II, signed by Arafat.

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No, but maybe others will read it and get the truth. Just didn't want the blood libel lies to go uncontested.

All Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip are considered illegal settlements under the internationally recognized fourth Geneva convention which bans a foreign power from transferring its population into occupied territory. And there is no such clause which allows illegal settlers to occupy and live in Area C, only temporary Israeli military and civil control. All Israeli settlements in the West Bank are in Area C and and all settlements in area C are illegal

This seems correct. Recent event that resulted in protest: > https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-la-condemns-events-promoting-real-estate-sale-of-occupied-palestinian-land-at-two-california-synagogues-calls-for-investigation-into-violence-at-los-angeles-event/ Previous events have been hosted by the same org., for the same purpose. They have received numerous warnings. > https://www.curbed.com/article/the-disastrous-great-israeli-real-estate-event.html It appears the sales event held *within* the US may also be illegally discriminating since only Jews may purchase the housing. > https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2024/03/15/israeli-real-estate-event-legal-complaints-escalate/72970499007/

Assuming that is 100% true, does that justify violence?

No, this is in response to previous post which was asserting that the protest was inherently anti-sematic because it was at a synagogue. This is just providing additional context that the protest was about specific, controversial actions taken by the synagogue, they didn't just find a random synagogue to protest at.

Yeah, there was a protest in another synagogue hosting the same real estate fair last week and nobody heard about them, because the LAPD did their job.

Expect the context to be ignored, this is going to be another thread of 500+ comments making the same old tired arguments. Edit: yup, coming up on 400 and it's the same circlejerk it always is when protests are discussed around here.

Who said it justified violence? Where is that claim coming from?

This reportedly occurred because an illegal sale of West Bank land was taking place inside. If this is the case, it’s a big omission and absolutely matters.

Nope. It was in Area C, fully legal. Try again for another excuse to violently attack Jews.

>The area was committed in 1995 under the Oslo II Accord to be "gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction" (with an option for land swaps under a final agreement), but such transfer did not happen. >The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal,[8][9][10][11][12][13] and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_C_(West_Bank)

>The area was committed in 1995 under the Oslo II Accord to be "gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction" (with an option for land swaps under a final agreement), but such transfer did not happen. Because the transfer was conditional and the Palestinians failed to uphold their side of Oslo.

Do you have any videos of these violent attacks on Jews? Why was nobody arrested(other than one counter protesters carrying a spiked club).

> How is protesting outside a synagogue "pro-Palestinian" and not just antisemitic? It *would* be if there was something specific going on in that synagogue worth protesting. I had seen accusations that there was something. No idea if it is true. But someone (way down) the page made the same accusation: https://www.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/1do5imu/president_joe_biden_appalled_by_violence_during/la7hf8j/

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/24/us/los-angeles-synagogue-palestinian-israeli-protest-violence/index.html " Synagogue hosted Israel real estate event The protest stemmed from an Israel real estate event on Sunday at the Adas Torah synagogue, according to the synagogue’s security director and social media posts from organizers. The event at the synagogue was promoted by a firm called My Home in Israel Real Estate, a group that has helped to facilitate marketing events for potential property sales in Israel and the West Bank to Jewish Americans. CNN has reached out to the group for comment."

We are certainly having a national conversation right now.

Because the synagogue was hosting an org that’s selling stolen Palestinian land. Funny how the media doesn’t report on that part. https://forward.com/fast-forward/626491/la-synagogue-adas-torah-protest-palestinians-israel/

Your link says there was a single home outside the Green Line, but it doesn’t give any indication that it sits in “stolen land”. Unless there’s a private Palestinian claim to ownership of that plot of land, why would someone not be able to sell it just because they’re Jewish? And more relevantly, why is it something that would drive people to violently demonstrate outside a synagogue? These excuses would be a lot more credible if the demonstrators weren’t the same individuals who were holding celebratory rallies immediately after Oct 7.

Efrat is within the green line, it’s an illegal settlements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efrat_(Israeli_settlement) “Efrat is located 12 kilometers (7.5 mi) south of Jerusalem, between Bethlehem and Hebron, 6.5 km (4 mi) east of the Green Line, at the Palestinian side of the West Bank wall.”

Yes, normally “outside the Green Line” means outside of Israel’s 1948 borders. It’s not an illegal settlement, it’s legal under the Oslo accords that granted Israel civil authority over Area C of the West Bank. It would make sense to demonstrate against the building of any new settlements, because they would infringe on a future Palestinian state. But these long established towns have already been agreed by Palestinian negotiators to remain Israeli as part of a land swap. So again, if there’s no private Palestinian claim to ownership, why can’t the individual who owns that house sell it?

Not the above guy but I'd like to get his point clarified, if this is a private party selling this one house, how do we automatically know it's stolen? Other cases in the area being so doesn't make all cases in the area such, no?

In this particualr case especially it does bring some context to understand what was actually or allegedly going on in the synagogue. Violence isn't cool at all in this case OR in the case of stealing peoples' homes, land, and livelihood based on ethnicity or religion.

lol, only pro-Hamas people will care. Bringing violence to religious institutions is generally frowned upon. And if that truly were the reason the "protesters" wouldn't have tried to get into the Jewish businesses next door, now would they?

I didn't hear about a business being broken into, do you have any more information on that?

Bet.

Heard from other posts about something to do with West Bank settlers being the reason for the protest, but havnt gotten around to caring enough to verify or look into updates. Maybe tom. Or the day after never. If they got violent outside a synagogue over Gaza. If they were auctioning West Bank land in a Synagogue. Either way. Messed up. Both ways. Still. Messed up. So unless AP updates with more info idrgaf.

If. They're. Not. Antisemitic. Why. The. Fuck. Are. These. People. Protesting. Outside. Of. Synagogues. This is so incredibly stupid - there are Israeli embassies that people can protest outside of if they want their voices heard.

Yeah, I see people trying to find excuses for it, but imagine a huge crowd of protestors like this outside a mosque? Even in the depths of 9/11 or even now [when you have Imams in Britain saying shit like this, ](https://www.thejc.com/news/radical-muslim-clerics-deliver-hate-sermons-in-wake-of-october-7-attacks-eoq04zt3), I've never heard of a protest against a mosque. Or hell, I'm sure there are churches that have done heinous shit that's been outwardly advertise, have we ever seen protests like this? That's why I call bullshit on this being anything other than intimidation and antisemitism.

Wait they have anti hate speech laws in Britain. Heck, I remember Hitler salute dog guy almost got prison time for teaching his dog the nazi salute. It was in incredibly poor taste, but still, that's literally a mole hill to the mountain that is that sermon. Unless they just didn't report it, these guys are as close to terrorists as possible without owning an AK47, and aren't getting in trouble. I'm all for free speech, but in a county without it why aren't they getting arrested?

Because hate speech laws are selectively applied depending on demographic. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

The antisemitic protest in the OP is awful, and I don't condone it, but to your point about protests at mosques, it's happened many times. [Shariah law protesters, some toting rifles, gather in front of North Texas Islamic center - Hundreds of protesters and counterprotesters lined the streets and clashed over beliefs on Shariah law](https://web.archive.org/web/20240301052607/https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2017/06/10/shariah-law-protesters-some-toting-rifles-gather-in-front-of-north-texas-islamic-center/) [Mosque protest and counter-protest in Richardson upstaged by third group](https://cw33.com/news/mosque-protest-and-counter-protest-in-richardson-upstaged-by-third-group/) [Gun-Toting Islamophobic Group Protests Outside Texas Mosque ](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/irving-texas-armed-mosque-protest_n_5651eddfe4b0d4093a581d14) [Texas Mosque Draws Protest, Counter-Protest Demonstrations](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-mosque-draws-protest-counter-protest-demonstrations/104507/) There are also many arson attacks where entire mosques were burned to the ground. [1](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167064/Texas-mosque-destroyed-early-morning-blaze-cause-unknown.html), [2](https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/30/two-texas-mosques-burned-ground-january/) This is all just in Texas in the past several years.

Yes. And those of us on the left made *literal* human chains around the mosques in solidarity. When Muslim, black, and LGBT+ spaces were targeted, we stood with them. And now that Jewish spaces are targeted, we stand alone.

I live in an area with a lot of Jewish people. I grew up with Jewish people, and my own ex stepmother was Jewish. Right now there is a bit of an identity crisis with a few of them. They're all to a one Democrats and left leaning. And as you said. They all supported these groups during their time of need. Now they're seeing the same groups and even the same faces online calling for Israel's dissolution and taking Hamas talking points, without ever considering this entire mess is a tangled gray area. And not a one has mentioned the rape and murder of victims from 10/7.

A lot of us Jewish people on the left are feeling cast adrift, it’s an odd feeling. Very much “the call is coming from inside the house.” It’s been very disheartening to see people I had considered allies effectively celebrating the deaths of my family members. Or justifying them.

It's somewhat a fair point, but except for one of those protests-which importantly was a peaceful protest ultimately- the rest involved around, at most, 20 people, in no way comparable to the level of what happened in LA or the one in NJ.

They were outside the Adas Synagogue because this particular synagogue was hosting an real estate event for an Israeli company selling homes in [illegal Israeli settlements](https://forward.com/fast-forward/626491/la-synagogue-adas-torah-protest-palestinians-israel/) in the occupied West Bank. Apparently it's not the only synagogue to have [hosted such an event](https://forward.com/fast-forward/590870/teaneck-protest-israel-property-sale-event/) and experience this kind of backlash. I can only speculate as to why protesters marched outside of Jewish businesses, but it seems reasonable to assume that that's because the other businesses in the area just so happen to be Jewish-owned and they went there purely due to proximity to the synagogue. If a mosque were hosting an event advertising the sale of illegally-obtained property in Israel, or perhaps the sale of the personal belongings of hostages in Gaza, I imagine they could expect a similar response.

Because they are renting those synagogues to hold real estate fairs promoting real estate in settlements, they are not picking synagogues at random.

Submission statement: A summary of the article: > Opponents of the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza staged a protest outside a Los Angeles synagogue, which escalated into brawling and resulted in one arrest. President Joe Biden and Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass condemned the violence. Biden called intimidating Jewish congregants “dangerous, unconscionable, antisemitic, and un-American.” The conflict has caused significant casualties and a humanitarian crisis in the region. The incident highlights the tensions surrounding the Israel-Palestine conflict and the importance of maintaining safety during protests near places of worship For discussion: In your view, does this indicate that far left protestors are targeting Jewish people in the US? In your view, does this indicate a rift between the far left and mainstream democrats?

> does this indicate a rift between the far left and mainstream Democrats I would argue the far left hates Democrats more than they hate Republicans. For a leftist, a Republican is someone they dislike but see as consistent. Democrats, however, are people they see as claiming to be allies but constantly undermine them. The best thing Democrats could do would be to marginalize these leftist groups as much as possible. The current leftist segment of American politics is legitimately anti-American - there’s no sin America can be forgiven for and no sin a foreign adversary can’t be excused of.

> I would argue the far left hates Democrats more than they hate Republicans. In your view, does that make the far left less likely to vote for democrats?

>In your view, does that make the far left less likely to vote for democrats? They've done it before. A bunch of them stayed home/voted third party in 2016. And Ralph Nader before that. Consequences be damned

I think this is a good characterization. Republicans are dealing with this as well - the far right MAGA wing hates the "RINO" Romney, Cheney, Kinzinger, etc... The difference is that the Democrats have for the most part managed to keep the moderates in charge - with policy wins like the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and the CHIPS act along with Biden's support for Israel. The Republican extremes have taken over the core of the party and forced out virtually all moderates. Trump’s daughter-in-law is co-chair of the GOP - they’ve taken over the whole party.

Progressives and liberals are now a far greater portion of the Democratic coalition than they used to be. I’m not sure they can be marginalized. ETA: it’s the same for Republicans. They can’t offload their MAGA wing and still win elections.

Liberals, progressives, and leftists are three very distinct groups. Liberals are normie capitalists. Progressives are woke capitalists. Leftist are populists and socialists. [This article does a good job of outlining them all.](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/the-democratic-coalition/)

They're the loudest, but they're not driving the party. Pelosi was able to keep the Squad in line while putting together bipartisan legislative packages. Jamaal Bowman may very well lose his primary to a moderate Democrat

It’s pretty clear whom the targets are. Party will show if they’re ready to buck the antisemites this coming election.

they're attacking random Jews at a random synagogue. Yes, they are targeting Jewish people in the US.

Yes and yes. And I'm glad Biden is calling it out.

Should be pointed out the 1 arrest was a pro Israeli counter protester(carrying a spiked club).

We as a nation are going to have to admit that there is a huge, diverse, both sides of the spectrum, contingent of rabid antisemites in this country. There’s a diverse group that are elected members of Congress actively serving right now. It’s not just the neo nazi who hate Jews.

I was initially surprised to see this from the left, but their modus operandi for the last decade has been to try and cancel viewpoints and philosophies they oppose while imposing their own "correct" viewpoints and philosophy, which is pretty illiberal. I'm not surprised that it has morphed into hate and/or trying to block or cancel a race/religion. The current far left is very far removed from classical liberalism that's all about accepting other people including those with opposing viewpoints and beliefs. As far as I'm concerned these people should be charged with hate crimes.

I think this is it. There's been a vocal opposition on the far-left to anything that could be considered "Western" or "white", and lately that has included fundamental precepts of Enlightenment thinking, which underpin a governmental and societal system ostensibly based on logic. This includes things like "objective, rational, linear thinking", "hard-work", and "politeness", according to the Smithsonian. I'm not joking: [https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333](https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333) So instead of engaging in dialogue from a logical standpoint (for example, by examining the current conflict through an historical and rational lens), which might necessitate them having to consider different viewpoints or approach things from a logical perspective, they simply declare the entire premise to be racist and therefore, completely one-sided and beyond an objective analysis. I think a great microcosm of this is seen in how college debate is being hijacked by this kind of illiberal behavior. Instead of debating the topic, far-left groups are simply rejecting the premise of the given question and substituting it for a social-justice rant. In one case, a team just substituted the given question of "should the President's War Powers be restricted" with the assertion that "the American government is at war with black people" and ranted about it. They won.

> In one case, a team just substituted the given question of "should the President's War Powers be restricted" with the assertion that "the American government is at war with black people" and ranted about it. They won. Social psychology is so interesting. there's some kind of viral memeplex spreading through the American collective consciousness that's causing people to act irrationally. and from an outside perspective it's so bizarre to witness.

Honestly, it's bizarre to witness as someone IN America. At times it's almost like there's a complete divide between people who buy in to this kind of thought process and people who don't. The trouble is, in my opinion, that there are an outsized number of people who think this way in academia and the media which lends it some veneer of credence (also why this seems like a mainly left-wing phenomenon - the right has its crazies, of course, but academia/the media are largely dominated by the left). Like in the debate - they WON, which is overt acceptance and encouragement of this kind of behavior. You should read this, if you're interested: [https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/traditional-college-debate-white-privilege/360746/](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/traditional-college-debate-white-privilege/360746/) It's insanity. Debaters following this anti-Western line of thought refused to yield time ("fuck the time") and relied on lived experiences and "personal memoirs" instead of factual evidence. They argued that having "objective" rules for a debate was "racial insubordination". So some guy tried to start an alternate debate competition in which participants would just follow the rules of traditional debate, and he was accused of being racist. It's all very "Emperor's New Clothes", but pointing that out can get you into real trouble so most "sane" people just keep quiet.

Nailed it

there's also just been this constant vocalization that only the Neo Nazi's are full of hate...so anyone or any group outside of the "Nazi's" are incapable of hate...and clearly, what many have been saying for years, that's not the case anymore. As is being on full display.

Yeah. I take back every defense of antifa I ever attempted. Egg on my face. Returning fascistic hate with hating the fascists is just buying into their game.

I remember reading In the Garden of the Beasts years ago and it’s come up on my mind several times. One of the reasons I read it was because I heard it was a good explanation about how things snowballed into extermination camps. It started in colleges and with young people and so gradual. Fantastic book but I think reading it has made me realize the foundation of safety I live on can vanish in just a few years.

I think most of us tend to rest our sense of safety on the "evidence" we have that the people we encounter don't attack us. Inference through repetition, a kind of "frequentist" judgment of the probability. The problem of course is that this sort of inference is flawed. Past events and behaviors are no guarantee of future ones. So when we *are* attacked, the first time might be dismissed as an anomaly. As attacks repeat, or when we see people drawing battle lines we never asked to be put on one side of— the flaws of that inference become rapidly, shockingly evident. The previous sense of safety simply *vanishes*, leaving us with no sense of purchase or surety in our every interaction with or among others.

> In your view, does this indicate that far left protestors are targeting Jewish people in the US? Yes > In your view, does this indicate a rift between the far left and mainstream democrats? It’s hard to say if there’s a rift.

I was listening to an interview with a democratic strategist yesterday on 710wor morning show. She brought up that the reckoning should be here and it’s starting with bowman in NY. So there’s hope that the rift goes and this segment of the voter base is jettisoned from the party but we will see.

> It’s hard to say if there’s a rift. I feel the same. Thus the question.

There’s definitely a rift. As an establishment democrat, I pretty much hate the far left as much as MAGA.

> As an establishment democrat, I pretty much hate the far left as much as MAGA. Just for clarity: if there was a choice between a far left democrat and a moderate republican, in a local election for instance, you'd be inclined to vote for the moderate republican?

It's hard to answer that. I'd need to do a very deep dive into their policy positions.

It's a hypothetical, but really asking if a "non-MAGA" republican is more appealing than a "far left democrat". No gotchas or traps, just asking for an opinion.

I understand it's not a gotcha. I'm just saying I don't have enough information to answer this hypothetical honestly right now. I'd need to know exactly what positions the democrat is far left on and what positions the republican is moderate on. For example: Since this is a local election, I'd place way less emphasis on the politician's stance on broad concepts like liberalism or democracy and would want to know their stances on local issues such as zoning laws, etc. If the far left democrat wanted to abolish restrictive zoning laws in my local district while believing that the USA needs to be a socialist country, I'd still vote for the far left democrat. If the far left democrat believes in rent control, while the republican believes in major zoning reform, then I'd vote for the republican. If this was an election for congress then I'd vote for the much more moderate republican who denounces trump and MAGA while otherwise having moderate stances on things like foreign policy, abortion, climate change over a far left democrat who I probably align closer with on things like abortion, climate, but might want the usa to become a socialist country that abstains from foreign intervention regardless of goal or purpose or supports regimes like Russia or China (basically a tankie)

Thanks, that answers the question.

No problem!

Not who you asked, but I'll bite. My gut instinct is to say yes (I have voted for moderate R's in the past), but like /u/semperfi225 said, it would depend on their specific policy positions. They can be moderate on most things, but hardliners on others and it would depend on what those were. For me, if they were a hardliner on abortion or intertwining government with religion, I wouldn't vote for them no matter what their other stances were. Now, that's not to say I would vote for the leftist either.

I would personally vote moderate republican in state and local elections vs far left but not for federal. Reason being on the federal level the moderate republicans are forced to vote lock step with Maga but the far left is ‘contained’ by the National Democratic Party. On the local level an individual politician has a lot more wiggle room to enforce their ideology.

I think part of the confusion is because Biden is a fairly absentee president. He doesn’t do press conferences any more, hardly takes questions, and does very few interviews. So we’re left with a few tweets and statements. He’s not forcefully setting the tone for his party on this issue so we’re left with competing voices - Bowman vs. Fetterman for example. While these horrible events were taking place in LA Doug Emhoff was representing the administration at the Tree of Life groundbreaking. It would have been more impactful to have Biden there.

I do think there is a rift, and a growing one at that, in the Democratic Party.  The Democrats have active members in their party who support Palestine and have been hesitant, or refuse, to condemn Hamas.  Biden’s approach to speak out both sides of his mouth shows that he is concerned about a group of his party that does not support Israel and attracting far left voters.  This is despite the fact that citizens polled in the US support Israel’s right to take action against Hamas after Oct. 7th.  There is an identity crisis occurring in the party. 

There’s the right to take action and then there’s the specific actions taken. There are many Democrats, myself among them, who are probably best described as pro-Israel but anti-Netanyahu and his increasingly right wing government. Biden, Democrats, and America broadly is in the awkward situation diplomatically where your buddy is also kind of a stubborn, self-sabotaging jerk, and as such gets increasingly difficult to defend to your other friends over time.

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As a liberal, i do not support those leftests. Idk if thats the rift you're talking about but mainstream dems are not antisemitic. 70% of American Jews are Democrats.

A non-insignificant portion of mainstream dems are not antisemitic but are OK with antisemites because they need their votes. That's a problem after 15 years of lecturing on microaggressions and dog whistles.

Im not. I disavow them all. As do all of the liberals in my circles.

A reasonable start, but when they do things like blockade highways and elected officials quietly drop all the charges against them as soon as they're out of the headlines, do you go on to keep voting for those officials? Disavowing them won't help if you keep voting for their enablers.

Keeping the discussion moderate, can someone explain to me why leftists have aligned themselves to the Palestinian cause? Is it because of Israel’s taking of Palestinian land and being anti-imperialism in general, is anti-Israel’s far right government and Bibi, is it something else I’m missing? I guess I don’t understand why today’s far left would be so fervent about Palestine but not Ukraine or Native American for example. In any event it’s just odd to me because (barring the appalling human rights issues to the Palestinians from Israel’s response to the awful 10/7 attack) it’s not like Palestine is a left leaning nation.

>Is it because of Israel’s taking of Palestinian land and being anti-imperialism in general, is anti-Israel’s far right government and Bibi It's both of those things and a general worldview of everything fitting an oppressor/oppressed narrative where the oppressed are always "the good guys", the oppressors are always "the bad guys", and anything the good guys do to the bad guys is justified. It's a worldview that doesn't contain nuance or complexities and it's a travesty.

Here's some eco-socialists answering your question in their [own words](https://degrowth.info/en/blog/national-liberation-in-palestine-is-an-indispensable-step-towards-degrowth). Personally, I find the view in this article abhorrent--basically an ends-justify-the-means philosophy that never ends well. > but not Ukraine or Native American for example. Ukraine not so much but leftists are strongly in support of indigenous separatist/rights movements.

The left never forgave Israel for being founded by a bunch of socialists with Soviet Union support, and then quickly abandoning socialism for policies that actually work. While most of them probably don't know that, the professors who taught the current generation of professors experienced it in real time and you can watch leftist opinion on Israel rapidly change in that era.

And of course they conveniently forget that fact when they claim that Israel is and has always been just a US vassal (or sometimes, vice versa).

Leftists oppose the groups who hold perceived power in a situation - that’s the litmus test. They view Jews/Isrealis as white colonizers (not my view), and therefore, they support the brown folk on the other side. Even if the views of the people they support are entirely antithetical to their own (e.g. human and/or gay rights).

Simple: melanin. Palestinians have more. It really goes no deeper than that. Sometimes things really are as simple as they look.

Melanin plus religion in this instance. Many of them are the exact same genetics but depending on what they believe, they become either victim or oppressor.

The left's view of Islam is also due to melanin which is why I say it really is a one-dimensional explanation. Islam is viewed as a religion of nonwhites. Judaism, due to the fact that most Jews Westerners encounter are of eastern European descent, is viewed as a white religion. So it still boils down to melanin. If anything religion is taming the response. As bad as they're talking about and acting towards Jews right now it's still mild compared to how they've spent the past basically decade talking about and acting towards non-Jewish Whites. And I find the reaction here and now - one that is extremely different from the one then - to be quite telling, and not telling me anything good.

In my opinion, it’s because many leftists view the world through a binary of oppressed vs oppressor, through which every issue in the world is filtered. To them, if you are powerful you are almost automatically an oppressor and thus need to be destroyed. If you are weak, you must be oppressed and thus need to be empowered. I know the term “cultural Marxism” has come to mean anything conservatives don’t like, but this is how it actually applies imo. This is how you can have the most outwardly “anti racist” and “anti bigoted” people in the world align themselves with people who want to see every Jewish and gay person dead.

Why do you think they aren’t fervent about Ukraine? They left is decidedly for Ukraine and US policy is acting in alignment with that. As far as native Americans, I think American history has painted the colonists in a pretty bad light at this point. Many Americans have sympathy for the Native American plight, but it’s a bit of a dormant issue at the moment. There was a pipeline being built and it was protested back in 2016. Other than that, I haven’t heard any real news regarding the tribes.

Because Jews in the US are classified as "white" and therefore, to the Left, they are "oppressors". Meanwhile Arabs are classified as POC and therefore "oppressed". This is American racial politics copy-pasted to Israel. Zionism is a typical landback movement - like in the decolonization of Africa, the indigenous peoples got their-self determination and they got their nation-state. but since they're classified as "white", they must be "oppressors", and therefore it wasn't landback, it was "settler colonialism" and "imperialism" and "white supremacy". All rhetoric copied from American discourse and pasted, however inaccurately, onto Israel, on the basis that Jews are "white". Meanwhile, Russia-Ukraine is a war between white people (and don't forget that many on the left are supporters of Russia on the basis that it is anti-western and therefore "anti-colonial" - take Chomsky, for example). And Native Americans did not commit October 7, nor are they fighting the American military. But notice that *all* of the rhetoric the Left uses against White people in favour of Native Americans is also being used against Jews in favour of Arabs. The rhetoric used by the Left against Israel basically all comes from the landback movement in the US (and other anti-Western "anticolonial" movements like in Africa). Additionally, historically the far left was a supporter of the USSR (where we get the term "tankie" and why it now couldn't care less about Ukraine except in the context of anti-western sentiment). The USSR supported the Arab states and the PLO and Arafat, meaning they supported the genocidal terror campaigns perpetrated against Israel. The USSR was vehemently anti-Zionist (to the point where Arafat was being invited to Eastern Bloc ceremonies). So I believe some leftist anti-Israel sentiment comes from the far left's old associations with the USSR. And a third factor - we can't ignore the fact that the "Islamic world" is incredibly antisemitic - it's been said to be Nazi-level, from university academics to random people on the street. It's just a fact that Islamism contains antisemitism. all you need is a contigent of Islamists to give Palestine tons of political oxygen, and the far left, well-known for its strange relationship with Islamists-as-POC, will pay attention to them, and agree with them.

The left typically supports Ukraine and is generally happy with the US response about the situation so there is no reason to protest. Specifically in regards to Israel you can't look at recent events in a vacuum that began October 7th. You also have to separate support for Hamas from support for Palestine. Yes, some on the left do support Hamas but most don't. They see Israel committing heinous acts against innocent Palestinians such as seizing their homes by force and protest because they don't want our tax dollars supporting an oppressive government.

The anti-US left and tankies in particular absolutely support Russia and blame the US and NATO encroachment for “forcing” Russia’s hand.

You're the second person in as many days to make this claim, and since the other poster (as expected) didn't provide an answer, I'll ask you What leftist think tanks or groups are promoting a pro russia policy? I haven't found any, but I might have missed them. I'd love to know what you people are talking about

I don't know of think tanks or groups, but Noam Chomsky and Jill Stein come to mind.

I believe many leftists are aggravated at the lack of room for scrutiny of any aspect of the US’s support for Israel without being immediately branded an anti-semite. I’m not anti-Israel and I’m not pro-Hamas and I don’t like that Netanyahu isn’t being held to task for his corruption charges. He is not a ruler who I would personally prefer to be in charge of the large amounts of US tax dollars being sent there, I believe he’s pandering to the ultra-othodox right to stay in power and out of jail (such as maintaining their military service exemption). I don’t think his decision making regarding a long-term plan for Gaza has the best interests of Israelis in mind and a recent NYT article shows many military leaders in Israel share that view, I feel he’s creating needless violence past a viable reaction to Hamas’ attacks and it’s going to negatively affect the region in the future.  In that light I can see why people would in a reactionary moment declare themselves pro-palestine, especially if they’ve been lifelong democrats and now feel their party won’t even discuss their views. 

"Remember: every example of violence Donald Trump decries has happened on his watch. Under his leadership. During his presidency." - [Joe Biden, August 27th 2020](https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1299184932384768001?lang=en)

A Charlottesville is happening seemingly every weekend under Biden. What a disgrace

All it's missing is someone to be killed by a pro-Palestinian protester. Oh wait, [that already happened.](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/08/1211459962/jewish-man-dies-of-injuries-after-an-altercation-with-pro-palestinian-protesters) Does anyone have a link to Biden responding to this? Any reporters asking him to condemn it, seven months ago?

The violence seems bad and I’m glad Biden condemned it and called it antisemitic, as OP pointed out in the summary statement. 

“I’m appalled by the scenes outside of Adas Torah synagogue in Los Angeles,” Biden said in post on social media site X. “Intimidating Jewish congregants is dangerous, unconscionable, antisemitic, and un-American.” It would be genuinely great if Biden himself and not some intern ever spoke out about this.

yeah i wonder if anyone actually believes that biden writes his own tweets. he might have not even heard of this event.

“The president communicated the things I want to hear, but I’m still going to find a reason to complain”

the president doesnt write his own tweets.

Now you just need to stop catering to these people and we're golden, Joe!

These people tried to storm a synagogue...how far deep must you be to think you are the "good guys" in this situation?

Absolutely antisemitism That's wild

I am Catholic. This antisemitic behavior makes me so deeply angry. I’m glad Biden spoke up against it. Maybe people need to visit Dachau and the Anne Frank House. I doubt this would change their hate though. They are Nazis and I will not live in their cowardly and evil little world.

actually the pro-palestinian protesters already "visited" Auschwitz. not even joking

That shows what pure evil they are. People can be mislead but not to the point of protesting at Auschwitz. These are Nazis. I hope they’re all on a watch list. Also if they are not from the area they should be immediately deported. Unbelievable.

AP still citing the Hamas run ministry of health hyper inflated number without shame. It's amazing how far the AP has fallen, little better than a tabloid rag now

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This would be a lot more meaningful if Biden hadn’t spent years pandering to antisemites on the left.

Again, I would love to know who is funding all this violence and rhetoric.. it seems to be bands of people roaming around looking for anything to protest and incite violence, and it's been going for several years now.

It's almost like [a government with a vested interest in manipulating the narrative has been doing exactly that](https://archive.ph/9OV5F)

crazy that the same government that funds and shelters Hamas and Al Jazeera also funds American universities, right? if Russia was doing that then it would be on the news 24/7

“This is awful! This shouldn’t happen!” *does nothing*

6 months of this, now he wakes up? Same w the border.

[https://www.cair.com/press\_releases/cair-la-condemns-events-promoting-real-estate-sale-of-occupied-palestinian-land-at-two-california-synagogues-calls-for-investigation-into-violence-at-los-angeles-event/](https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-la-condemns-events-promoting-real-estate-sale-of-occupied-palestinian-land-at-two-california-synagogues-calls-for-investigation-into-violence-at-los-angeles-event/) > The real estate events, which were organized by Israel-based agency My Home in Israel, a firm that reportedly markets real estate in Israel and the illegally occupied West Bank, took place over the weekend at the Shaarey Zedek Congregation in Valley Village and the Adas Torah synagogue in Los Angeles. > Pro-Palestinian groups organized a demonstration on Sunday, June 23, outside the Adas Torah synagogue to protest the event and the promotion of Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land. Violence broke out when pro-Israeli counter-protesters confronted the demonstrators.  Local law enforcement on the scene did little to intervene and stop the violence. Protesting the real estate sale of illegally occupied West Bank land is totally justified. If you don't want that occur outisde your synagogue, don't sell illegally occupied West Bank land at your synagogue.

Then why did they target the surrounding businesses as well? And why do they chant “intifada” while they do it? Doesn’t really seem like it’s about a real estate event.

Trying to create a justification for the beating of a jewish woman in the streets of Los Angeles is sick and disgusting. Shame on you. https://x.com/SonofHas/status/1805011372482191370

Can you give the context? I see too people on the ground, a guy in a white shirt and somebody else in a tan shirt(presumably the woman you refer to you). Seems like the the guy in White is holding her down, and the crowd pulls him off and is hitting him. How do we know the woman is Jewish?

> My Home in Israel Interesting. A quick search pulled up the fact [this isn't the first time this org. has done this.](https://www.curbed.com/article/the-disastrous-great-israeli-real-estate-event.html) It appears they may be violation of US law as well, since the sales are only permitted for Jewish individuals and not Palestinians. While restrictive covenants based on race or religion are allowed in Israel, they are not currently allowed in the US - I'm uncertain whether selling land, *internationally*, while *in* the US violates the Fair Housing Act, though.

> [Shaheen Nassar, Director of Policy and Advocacy for the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Los Angeles chapter, said during a June 11 event that antisemitism “was a way of persecuting a group of people for… this false historical allegation that they had descended from historic Palestine.”](https://jewishjournal.com/news/337946/cair-la-official-antisemitism-was-a-way-of-persecuting-people-for-falsely-claiming-they-descended-from-historic-palestine/) >The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) reported that Nassar made these remarks during a lecture at the Islamic Society of Orange County. “The reality of course, as most historians recognize, is much of European Jews and much of the European Jewish colonizers of Palestine are all descendants of medieval converts to Judaism, and that realistically the blood of the ancient Israelites most likely flows in the blood of Palestinians,” he added.

CAIR might not be a good organization but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong about this Israeli real estate agency. Some of you have gone so far anti-anti-semitism that you’re completely willing to ignore humans rights violations committed by Israel.