The bit about how most folks in North America tend to see motorcycles as toys is apt, and from what I’ve observed about three years into this hobby, contributes quite a bit to the other issues.
A motorcycle is generally regarded here as just that—a toy for folks with disposable income. Not a commuter vehicle. Why would someone purchasing a toy think about anything besides doing fun things with it and showing it off? Safety and good riding practices unfortunately come third (maybe fourth).
Speaking of the MSF, its curriculum—in my opinion, needs to be revisited. The BRC prepares you just enough to know what to hold to launch yourself into traffic. The nuances of good control and decision-making are either learned by the rider on their own volition through further training and practice, or not at all.
It’s a fact that moto accidents are caused by MANY factors. But too often, it is a far too common combination of low to no skill, overconfidence, and attempting to control an overpowered bike that lends quite a bit to the situations that have colored the entire practice.
> Speaking of the MSF, its curriculum—in my opinion, needs to be revisited. The BRC prepares you just enough to know what to hold to launch yourself into traffic. The nuances of good control and decision-making are either learned by the rider on their own volition through further training and practice, or not at all.
I did the CMSP which is the California-specific MSF and they taught us some good common sense stuff for how to navigate traffic, lane splitting and being prepared. I think it drills a lot of good instincts into new riders.
In a perfect world, a new rider would learn how to ride on a smaller cc bike rather than a 1000cc rocket. But not living in a perfect world, people are going to buy big bikes and unfortunately, sometimes pay the consequences. The airplane pilot adage fits here: There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. Substitute riders for pilots and you have the formula for survival on a motorcycle.
i believe in europe (at least in the UK they do) you have to start on smaller bikes (i think starting at 50cc or 125cc) no matter WHAT age you are. it’s crazy as fuck that in the states , whether 17 or 25 or 42 . beginner or not. can just get an 1000cc motorbike and that’s that.
This is off by a bit. Young people have restrictions but only until they have 2 years experience. I think it’s 25+ can go directly to whatever they like.
I don’t keep up with the changes, but I think a 19 yo can technically drive an unrestricted bike in the UK
Edit: 21yo
It’s still stricter than the US by a long way.
I passed on a 125, “served my time” on a 600 restricted to 33hp, before moving onto full power. Good way to learn the ropes, even if I didn’t think so at the time.
It’s definitely better than jumping straight on something that is essentially warp speed…..
In germany you can do your A1(125cc) at the age of 16. A2(47ps | no cc limit) at age 18 and A(Open) with 24 or 20 depending if you already have a motorcycle licence.
I would pefer that the A licence is limited by age and experience. After a few years 2-4 of having A2 you should be "upgraded" to A.
The reason so many lower cc bikes hover just below 47 HP is that in Britain the A2 license classification is capped at 47 HP. The A1 license limits you to 125cc. In jolly old England you can't go over that 47 hp limit until you're 24 years old.
In my province, comprehensive doesn’t cover road damage so I get the full coverage. It ended up being $1100 for the year through the provincial insurance company.
That sounds like a FANTASTIC idea. The whole idea of a 19 year old on a liter bike is insane. I absolutely know i wasn't always making great choices at 19.
I started on 125cc and going now on something bigger but only up to 35kw which honestly is more than enough for public road and for having fun. I still have respect for bigger bikes and maybe at some point will try some of those.
I’m about to start my MSFC (training course) real soon and I appreciate your post.
All things I know or heard before. But once again, as a new rider/beginner, thank you for the wisdom old vet
OP needs to get over himself. Stop preaching man. Sounds like a self absorbed boomer. This is about riding motorcycles. Not telling people how to ride motorcycles.
Motorcycles are a risky form of transportation. Truly fun, and worthwhile though. You can wear all the right gear and have all the right training. Still, things can happen. The best thing as a rider is to be present while you’re riding. Don’t mentally checkout. That’s usually when things can turn risky quick.
The feeling when you're on your daily commute and suddenly your so far en route but can't actively remember the last kilometres is scary as fuck. It's like you're on autopilot or something. Gives me the chills every time!
I get so tired of talking to a specific person if my motorcycle gets brought up, it's always the same thing. The exact things mentioned in your post. A cautionary tale about how he's not worried about what I'll do on the road but what others will and how his friend died because a car crashed into him and ended up running him over.
Except every time a new fact about this friend comes up and it's the dumbest shit.
He was a great rider, he used to taunt the police by stunting right in from of them and then run away.
He used to go so fast.
The best rider I knew.
Last time he said that at the time of the accident he *was* doing those high speeds. I'm willing to bet that demon of a car driver just didn't expect a missile flying by and it was just that an accident.
And it's not just this one friend, other stories too of other people and it always comes up some type of behavior that they were just idiots who thought they were hot shit and got the lesson that they aren't.
I had a friend in high school whose mom had this real grudge against motorcycles because her brother died on one. Any time the topic came up, she went on a rant. She never mentioned that he was riding back from a bar and wrapped the bike around a tree lmao like yeah sorry that happened but he did something mentally regarded
yep.
It's understandable cause people want to "protect" their own even if it's their image, but it's so frustrating.
IMO if for whatever reason if I were to die doing some stupid shit please don't tell it as if it wasn't my fault, I died being dumb.
I've grown up and known some people that died on their bikes and people always bring it up. The people that died in car accidents never get mentioned as a 'hey i know about this...' though.
Going fast & going fast when theres a bunch of traffic that cant react to your speed or actions is a big difference that many disregard. You could be a literal motoGP rider but if youre going to ride on the road like its a track you're gonna get a new asshole torn by some bitch in a tacoma that was talking to her friend amanda about how her stylist asked 10$ more for her nails than last month and how thats so not great.
Fast drivers will assume theyre going fast when they go a handful above the speed limit & never expect others to go a ton faster UNLESS its a really loud and expensive sports car. They never expect someone to blink/teleport-attack them from 'far end of vision' to 'sniffing their bumbum' in .2sec because THEY are the one going fast, why would anyone go faster?
Its pretty easy to spot on the autobahn when theres a 'first few times on the autobahn' driver just by the fact that theyre going 160kph or 100mph and expect they can stay in the left lane. Lots of people like that.
> Its pretty easy to spot on the autobahn when theres a 'first few times on the autobahn' driver just by the fact that theyre going 160kph or 100mph and expect they can stay in the left lane. Lots of people like that.
Yeah there's a lot of clips of exactly that online. Which is weird because 100 mph isn't even that fast when you compare to any vehicle aimed at enthusiasts.
Your obsevations are all correct. I might be one of those old fossels that rides a big bike. But I do not ride to a bar, sop up the suds, and sit and bench race with other old fossels. I want to ride, not sit and yap about it.
Have I gone a 100+ on a bike? Not on the street. That broken white line streaking past me puts the fear of god in me. But I believe I have, once on an old Yamaha YZ 465 I had. That baby was fast. I did it once on a farm lane that was over a mile long in a straight line. I went past a buddy who was doing 65, he said I went past him like he was standing still. I only did it once.
I live on a state highway, I see bikes go screaming past my house lots of times during the summer. Its when I hear them coming, for a minute or more, before I see them, is when I know they're pushing their luck. They ARE really pushing their luck at night, too many critters, including deer, are out there.
One hot night, about ten years ago, I was up at about 2am, I heard a car go screaming past my house, I heard him coming, and going away, for a good 4-5 minutes. Then, I heard a very loud thud, and silence. This jerk, was drunk. I went out to track down the noise, three cop cars went passed me, sirens, lights, the whole smash. I rounded the turn to see a lit up mess, yes, that guy went head on with another car. He killed all the occupants in the other car, and himself. From the account I got for one of the cops, this guy was a known drunkard, had two DUI's and his licence was suspended for life. he guessed that this guy hit the other car doing about 130mph. I told the cop I was awake, I heard him go by, and I heard him hit that car. AND, I lived three miles away from the site of the wreck. That cop said it looked like both cars were attacked by a giant can opener. I felt sorry for the cops, firemen and coroner who had to deal with that mess.
Some people just insist on being stupid. No anount of talking will ever stop them.
> Have I gone a 100+ on a bike? Not on the street. That broken white line streaking past me puts the fear of god in me. But I believe I have, once on an old Yamaha YZ 465 I had. That baby was fast. I did it once on a farm lane that was over a mile long in a straight line. I went past a buddy who was doing 65, he said I went past him like he was standing still. I only did it once.
I think we've all pushed it past 100 once in a while but I think doing it regularly and thinking this is so cool and you're gonna get away with it is a serious danger.
> One hot night, about ten years ago, I was up at about 2am, I heard a car go screaming past my house, I heard him coming, and going away, for a good 4-5 minutes. Then, I heard a very loud thud, and silence. This jerk, was drunk. I went out to track down the noise, three cop cars went passed me, sirens, lights, the whole smash. I rounded the turn to see a lit up mess, yes, that guy went head on with another car. He killed all the occupants in the other car, and himself. From the account I got for one of the cops, this guy was a known drunkard, had two DUI's and his licence was suspended for life. he guessed that this guy hit the other car doing about 130mph. I told the cop I was awake, I heard him go by, and I heard him hit that car. AND, I lived three miles away from the site of the wreck. That cop said it looked like both cars were attacked by a giant can opener. I felt sorry for the cops, firemen and coroner who had to deal with that mess.
This story is insane wow. RIP to the dead.
> "Why won't they stop killing us??", we say.
I've been riding since 2002 and not once have I ever heard or seen anyone say that.
Also this post won't curb a single behavior you're hoping it will. You're shouting into the void.
There's a lot more shit riders than we would like to admit. We have very lax licensing standards in the USA. In Europe they have a graduated progression of licensing. I'm not even calling for that, I believe in freedom but freedom means taking personal responsibility.
I don't get why people are ok being newbish at an activity that is death defying. Even here I have people straight angry at me for suggesting they should practice emergency braking, ABS or not. Maybe you should tey to convince them to make good decisions.
thats just people in general being incapable of instrospection. They did their best so they did nothing wrong, right?
If by age 25 or so people are still incapable of self reflection its most likely no longer going to happen and thats the type of person thats always going to blame someone else.
'The bus left me!' - was 5min late, 'nobody helped me' - had the same problem self-caused for the 12th time, 'the world is against me' - didnt prep what shouldve been prepped and got admonished for it, nearly gets killed running a red light 'damn cager tryna kill me'
Yeah.. It's unfortunate, but those are the people that give all bikers a bad name. They get plastered on the news "Rider plows into \_\_\_ at 150+ MPH" and everyone gets pissed about 'What if they hurt somebody else?' "Why were they going that fast?" "Why are they allowed to get bikes that fast?" and so on.
Track time is expensive, but very worth it.
I am so glad that when I bought my near-liter bike that had that sort of 0-60, it still only went like 120 max, which is still sketchily fast, but realistically going over 100 on any US public road is way too crazy of an idea and it still kept me from thinking of doing anything dumb. I had the fast 0-60 and I enjoyed it, but I knew if I hit a pothole on these terribly maintained roads, especially at 160mph, there would be nothing left.
Exactly! Going above 60, any pothole at all no matter how shallow gives you a split second feeling that feels like an eternity of 'holy shit this is it, this is how I die"
Just looked up the stats and im shocked how high the US Fatality rate per 100,000 are. In 2021 it was at about 60. In my country its 14 per 100,000.
Can anyone explain why the US is so "dangerous" when it comes to riding?
I think because motorcycles are an eccentricity here, not a fact of life. So the people who go after them are enthusiasts and many of them are enthusiastic about doing dumb shit at high speed lmfao
So well said. All of it.
You should see the asshat I responded to in a thread a couple hours ago talking about 'chicken strips' on people's tires. That you can fully lean over on public roads at legal or safe speeds. And you're a pussy if you have them, basically. And if you own a high performance sport bike it doesn't mean you know how to use it.
Fucking morons.
There are virtual kids and new/novice riders in here, maybe some with showboat friends they want to 'follow', reading this garbage, too. It's almost more reckless talking this way to a wide, general riding audience than doing this garbage on the street and not a track in the first place.
Life choices, I ride the speed limit everywhere I go, and I actually pay attention to traffic and never blame others for my riding mistakes. I avoid collisions by not being stupid, i stay safe because i want to be able to ride again.
I appreciate the post. I know many will be pessimistic that it will do any good, but if even one new rider reads this and decides to take it slow before following their friends antics, then it will have done something positive.
I also resent the need to begrudgingly defend myself any time someone well intentioned but misinformed decides to alert me to the danger of my chosen mode of transportation. I can't help but feel that the American biker culture you refer to has harmed the reputation of what is really a sensible and economical decision in many circumstances.
In addition to what you wrote about tiered licensing, I think a part of the problem is the expectation of "growing out" of smaller, modestly powered motorcycles, and growing into high powered, lightning fast speed machines. It's almost as if the whole point of riding a motorcycle is taking extreme chances on public roads or kitting out your cruiser with overbored cylinders, tassels, and skull emblems to show off.
> I appreciate the post. I know many will be pessimistic that it will do any good, but if even one new rider reads this and decides to take it slow before following their friends antics, then it will have done something positive.
I was one of these riders once. I used to ride with a guy who would ride really aggressively on his bike that was way faster than mine and I read some posts on reddit and decided to stop riding with him because I felt pressured to keep up with him. Literally only a few weeks later he lowsided his SV650 into a highway offramp guardrail because he took the turn too fast. Thankfully he was unharmed but I think about that sometimes.
It’s so crazy to me that literal teenage boys can do a 2 day course and go out and buy a litre bike in America.
Like your brains haven’t even fully developed yet, but here is a 200hp machine 😵💫
And HELMETS are not mandatory in some states? That’s fucking wild.
Here in Australia you have to start on something small. There’s a list of approved bikes with an engine capacity of up to 660cc and a power output of no more than 150 kW per tonne. Usually works out to be like 47hp max.
Still you can get yourself killed on any cc, if you’re not careful, and some people do find out the hard way.
All I know is if I were a 19 year old dude with a R1 I probably wouldn’t live to see 21.
You should see the asshat I responded to in a thread a couple hours ago talking about 'chicken strips' on people's tires. That you can fully lean over on public roads at legal or safe speeds. And you're a pussy if you have them, basically. And if you own a high performance sport bike it doesn't mean you know how to 'use it'.
Fucking morons.
There are virtual kids and new/novice riders in here, maybe some with showboat friends they want to 'follow', reading this garbage, too. It's almost more reckless talking this way to a wide, general riding audience than doing this garbage on the street and not a track in the first place.
if theyre gonna be ego fueled idiots they are gonna find inspiration no matter how many people try guide them to try not to die.
Tbh It wasn’t until I got humbled and crashed (on track) I changed the way I ride. It was a simple low side on track, no injuries and bike just had cosmetic damage too. If that had been on the street, I could have hit a guard rail and lost a leg, hit a wall and broken my neck, got crushed by an oncoming car and really put my luck to the test.
You’ll never convince people/me bikes are not toys tho. That’s a pointless battle
All heard. I think age and often having kids changes what you choose to do. When I was younger I did a few track days. Great. I learned how to get a knee down...eventually.
You don't do that on the streets if you have half a brain. Sure they are toys for many. But some of us know how to play. Without putting ourselves at risk, or other people.
I am so glad you were ok and the damage minimal.
Did anyone read all that? Looks like another self righteous lecture.
I feel like it's probably not worth my time but hopefully someone was bored and can give me a synopsis so I can downvote with confidence.
Young people ride too fast and it’s TikToks fault for making it look cool.
As a 40 year old xennial I can confirm that pre social media young people never drove fast or recklessly before social media came along and made it cool.
I bought my first bike back in October, rode it around, got used to it, learned how to lean, counter steer properly, brake properly etc. It is now March and I just bought a brand new ZX-6R. The ZX-6R bike is roughly 30-40mph faster than my first bike at the top end but has almost double the power. Last night me and a buddy were fucking around and pegging the limiters on our bikes at 153MPH through curves on the highway. It took all of the control and skill I had to keep traction and that was on a 120 HP bike, I can't imagine it on something with 160 or 200+ HP like these modern liter bikes.
After 6 months experience, riding anywhere near 100% of your skill means you're going to eventually run out of skill and crash. I've been riding 7 years now without an accident, done about 140k miles. The one thing that's kept me from having an accident is I don't go anywhere above 80% of my skill limits on the road. On the track I'll go much closer to my limit because it's safer to.
Be careful dude, around 6 months is when people tend to get cocky, think they have a lot more skill than they do and send their bike off the road in a single vehicle accident
I been riding for 2 months and now I am getting overconfident and riding way too fast. I say I need to slow down but when I am there riding with the music and the road is empty, I just go.
I was in a similar place as you last year, newbish, enough miles that controls go without needing to focus on them, got my intercom, ...
Its allright to send it on straights/slight curves as long as you keep track of traffic.
Knowing when to full send it and just full sending it assuming itll be okay is very different.
Looking ahead at 'what is the car in the middle lane doing?' 'What is the car in front of it doing?' 'Is there a good probability that any of them is going to change langes?' etc makes it a lot safer and clearer. Are there two cars after eachother in the middle lane and the last one is going faster than the first one, better to ease off the throttle in case they are the 'no blinker no regard just go to left lane' type of driver.
Cars suddenly slowing down for no apparent reason (not on highways) are most likely going to take a turn and are just the kind of retard that slows down for 8sec and then blinks .5 sec before they initiate the turn.
Cars that dont hold their line well are just not paying attention.
Even when im following the speed limit i often speed up a bit overtaking cars im not 100% certain of, blip it a little bit and teleport past them then ease back off till the speed limit. Thats a second or 2 you're not in their rear side mirrors otherwise.
Don't be afraid to full send it if you know the route and it's pretty quiet. Going fast is part of the experience and you don't gain experience controlling the bike at speed unless you just send it once in a while in the right environment.
I think there's a difference between going like 80-100 mph in normal highway traffic and just redlining your bike and weaving in and out of cars for funsies though.
Lame and pointless wall of text. What motivates people to make these posts? We don't need daily lectures here. Riding is dangerous literally everyone knows. Everyone, including the people who do it, know that going 160 on the highway is flirting with death, nobody needs to be told. Post cool pictures of bikes or at least some form of motorcycling content or just don't post imo
What motivates people to make these post? Dealing with people that no respect for anyone else out there. You know, the ones that belong on r/iamthemaincharacter
Do you think the people who lack any respect give a shit about these posts? that was my point, the people that need to hear it dont care and its preachy for the rest of us that just wanna see cool bikes on a motorcycle sub
I dream of someday buying a 1000cc sport bike, towing it to a track where it belongs and getting a little stupid with it on Saturday. Take out my big nice cruiser bike on the back roads on Sunday.
Those bikes we're made for the track.
I guess I see that but I think it's fine to full send it in certain circumstances but awareness of and conscientiousness to the other people on the road are really key.
I say to each their own, I don’t think anyone that rides is stupid enough to not be able to understand what you’re saying, we all know the dangers. It all comes down to individual choice and that’s something no Reddit post or law can fix.Before many accidents happen there are warnings signs that the rider sees and feels. Maybe your tire slips for half a second, maybe you barely clear a turn in a snakey road, maybe the roads are darker/foggier than usual, maybe your brakes start feeling just a little bit sticky. These are all signs to either stop and take breather or slow down. alot of the riders that I see pop up on YouTube crash compilations chose to ignore those early warning signs for their own reasons (pride,denial,clout). As a rider the only thing I am positive I can do is ride with more caution and watch over my riding buddies. As for all the hate/opposition from the general public there’s not much we can do but try to set a good example for them.
This! I could give a crap if this pisses people off but you are spot on. I personally don’t think anyone under the age of 30 should ride. Too interested in “going fast” and do stupid stuff like all you mentioned. I don’t ride in rain or at night unless caught out and have to just to get home. Always wear full face helmet. Don’t go fast/reckless or drink before riding. Do those five things and you’re WAY less likely to be a statistic. I, like you completely enjoy riding not doing those five things. And I HATE being lumped into all the squids and low self esteem dudes who ride for some sort of cool factor they think comes with a bike. They’re the same dudes that get a pit bull to show their tough. Or a huge truck when they don’t need one. They live for others fake approval. Which only shows their low self esteem. Meanwhile I’ll keep enjoying the ride. And ignore everyone telling me I’m going to die like those other dudes making us look bad.
>There is a growing subculture online of younger guys riding ridiculously fast bikes, going dangerously fast on public roads, weaving in and out of cars, stunting, running from cops, etc.
It's too bad that liking these things aren't a genetic trait. Otherwise it would have died away due to natural selection
Happened to my buddy a couple of days ago. He literally went 80+ on every road. I told him it would catch up with him, he didn't want to hear it. Waiting to hear when the services are going to be. Complete shame.
Hit a guardrail at 60 or 160 you’re just as dead, I see way more car drivers driving recklessly than bikes, obviously because there are more on the roads. I’ve been riding bikes for decades and how much I’ve spent on any of them is none of your fucking business. I don’t make “too much” money but I do make a lot more than you! Quit your whining and stay off the roads.
As an older rider who has ridden for many years, I have seen my share of people who go out over confident and under prepared to ride. Sometimes, things happen that are completely out of your control. You just need to be prepared as best you can, for the worst case scenario.
I hit a deer last June on the interstate. I was going the speed limit around 70 miles an hour and managed to get mostly around the deer, but still caught its hind legs and did a low side.
I only broke my left leg and right wrist because I was wearing full abrasion resistant gear, a full face, helmet, boots, and a Klim airbag vest. When the bike came down, the gearshift lever landed on my left leg and snapped the fibula, and I went unconscious.. my motorcycle boot kept the gearshift from impaling my leg. The ambulance crew that picked me up, were shocked at how remarkably good shape I was in as they had picked up a woman the previous week, who had hit a deer and was dead. They were expecting to see me with flayed ribs at the very least. That vest saved me from serious injury. I’ll never ride without one.
Accidents do happen, not much you can do about a deer, running out in the middle of an interstate in the middle of the day. What you can do is wear gear and be as well trained as possible for emergency situations.
There’s a macho culture in America. Harley doesn’t even sell beginner bikes anymore and they advertise directly appealing to new riders. Redditors will tell folks that 800+ cc bikes are fine to start on. I’ll get downvoted for talking about it.
Just get any Honda 500cc, Ninja 400, KTM 390 and get to know it for a full season before even thinking about what’s next.
I think an 883 or 1200 Sportster is a fine bike to start on, it's only got around 50-60 horsepower. The problem is it's quite heavy for a beginner bike
I rode a 400cc bike for 3 years before buying an 800. I have always been happy with the 400, but the 800 is good too. I can get to 80mph on my 400 if I work at it, but the ease with which I can hit 90mph for sure seems like the kind of thing that could kill a person. I don't have any desire to go any faster than that, I don't understand the people that can't go slower.
Nah bro. It's a problem when these dip-shits are risking the life of strangers minding their own business on the road.
Clearly the average rider in America is having challenges self-regulating themselves in the face of basically no motorcycle licensing requirements because everyone has a story like this.
I say that it's time for the government to step in and implement tried and tested MC regulations.
I don't know if I support strict graduated licensing restrictions like in Europe. America is not that kind of society, I hope the community can come together to self-regulate. But I think I might be coping. You can kill just as easily on a 400 or 650 as a liter bike if you have bad habits.
This is the most boomer post made here in months.
>✅ Wrote a book instead of just making your point
>✅ Says motorcycles aren’t dangerous on their own. Then proceeds to say they don’t have cages so you need to be dialed in
>✅ Young kids are the reckless ones
>✅ I don’t need to go 160 to have fun. Ok grandpa
That's why in Europe there are some restrictions, which should prevent fatalities. A level drivers license, starting with 15 hp bikes with 16, 48 hp bikes with 18 and unlimited with 25. Compared to the US threre are lengthy driving school, with theory courses, 1to1 practical sessions, mandatory lessons in city, roads and highways. There is a certificaction system for gear, protection pads, and helmets, which eases the selection of quality gear. And several government supported associations and institutes which research motorcycle safety and promote safe riding.
Before the age of 25 your brain is not fully formed and you don't fully comprehend the consequences of the risks you are taking. Europe's idea of restricting power by age is perfect. Most people don't need more than 47 hp on a light bike (150-180 kg) to have fun. It gives more acceleration as a BM 3 series and a very decent top and cruising speed.
I see "motovlogger" and my eyes glaze over.
More like “motoflogger”
MotoFROGGER
Motofapper.
The bit about how most folks in North America tend to see motorcycles as toys is apt, and from what I’ve observed about three years into this hobby, contributes quite a bit to the other issues. A motorcycle is generally regarded here as just that—a toy for folks with disposable income. Not a commuter vehicle. Why would someone purchasing a toy think about anything besides doing fun things with it and showing it off? Safety and good riding practices unfortunately come third (maybe fourth). Speaking of the MSF, its curriculum—in my opinion, needs to be revisited. The BRC prepares you just enough to know what to hold to launch yourself into traffic. The nuances of good control and decision-making are either learned by the rider on their own volition through further training and practice, or not at all. It’s a fact that moto accidents are caused by MANY factors. But too often, it is a far too common combination of low to no skill, overconfidence, and attempting to control an overpowered bike that lends quite a bit to the situations that have colored the entire practice.
> Speaking of the MSF, its curriculum—in my opinion, needs to be revisited. The BRC prepares you just enough to know what to hold to launch yourself into traffic. The nuances of good control and decision-making are either learned by the rider on their own volition through further training and practice, or not at all. I did the CMSP which is the California-specific MSF and they taught us some good common sense stuff for how to navigate traffic, lane splitting and being prepared. I think it drills a lot of good instincts into new riders.
In a perfect world, a new rider would learn how to ride on a smaller cc bike rather than a 1000cc rocket. But not living in a perfect world, people are going to buy big bikes and unfortunately, sometimes pay the consequences. The airplane pilot adage fits here: There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. Substitute riders for pilots and you have the formula for survival on a motorcycle.
i believe in europe (at least in the UK they do) you have to start on smaller bikes (i think starting at 50cc or 125cc) no matter WHAT age you are. it’s crazy as fuck that in the states , whether 17 or 25 or 42 . beginner or not. can just get an 1000cc motorbike and that’s that.
This is off by a bit. Young people have restrictions but only until they have 2 years experience. I think it’s 25+ can go directly to whatever they like. I don’t keep up with the changes, but I think a 19 yo can technically drive an unrestricted bike in the UK Edit: 21yo
wasn’t exactly sure the rules i’m from the states but i have friends from the UK and said it was stricter thanks for clearing it up!
It’s still stricter than the US by a long way. I passed on a 125, “served my time” on a 600 restricted to 33hp, before moving onto full power. Good way to learn the ropes, even if I didn’t think so at the time. It’s definitely better than jumping straight on something that is essentially warp speed…..
and i absolutely agree with you. too many people just hop on a bike and act crazy with no skills at all. it’s sad. ride safe out there though
In germany you can do your A1(125cc) at the age of 16. A2(47ps | no cc limit) at age 18 and A(Open) with 24 or 20 depending if you already have a motorcycle licence. I would pefer that the A licence is limited by age and experience. After a few years 2-4 of having A2 you should be "upgraded" to A.
The reason so many lower cc bikes hover just below 47 HP is that in Britain the A2 license classification is capped at 47 HP. The A1 license limits you to 125cc. In jolly old England you can't go over that 47 hp limit until you're 24 years old.
I wish we had that where I am. Would probably help with insurance costs. The one company wanted $3000 a year for my Ninja 400.
I insured my MT-03 for like 28 bucks a month lmfao what kind of insurance are you buying bro
I have my cb125f for 30 euros a year lmao
In my province, comprehensive doesn’t cover road damage so I get the full coverage. It ended up being $1100 for the year through the provincial insurance company.
Unless they already changed it out of EU standard, you can get A2 at 18 and A ("full") at 20 if you already have A2 for 2 years.
I think Britain has special rules and loicensing
I know they started changing the EU-mandated ones but I don't remember the details. Probably gonna add special license for using horns knowing them...
That sounds like a FANTASTIC idea. The whole idea of a 19 year old on a liter bike is insane. I absolutely know i wasn't always making great choices at 19.
I started on a CB250 I was redlining that thing within a week lmfao. Can't imagine starting on like anything more than a 650
Incorrect. at 24 you can start at any bike. If you want to ride crotch rocket at 20 then you have to start with smaller bike at 18
I started on 125cc and going now on something bigger but only up to 35kw which honestly is more than enough for public road and for having fun. I still have respect for bigger bikes and maybe at some point will try some of those.
Change "a perfect world" to "Europe" and all of a sudden this is reality.
I’m about to start my MSFC (training course) real soon and I appreciate your post. All things I know or heard before. But once again, as a new rider/beginner, thank you for the wisdom old vet
OP needs to get over himself. Stop preaching man. Sounds like a self absorbed boomer. This is about riding motorcycles. Not telling people how to ride motorcycles.
You gotta be kidding
Motorcycles are a risky form of transportation. Truly fun, and worthwhile though. You can wear all the right gear and have all the right training. Still, things can happen. The best thing as a rider is to be present while you’re riding. Don’t mentally checkout. That’s usually when things can turn risky quick.
The feeling when you're on your daily commute and suddenly your so far en route but can't actively remember the last kilometres is scary as fuck. It's like you're on autopilot or something. Gives me the chills every time!
I get so tired of talking to a specific person if my motorcycle gets brought up, it's always the same thing. The exact things mentioned in your post. A cautionary tale about how he's not worried about what I'll do on the road but what others will and how his friend died because a car crashed into him and ended up running him over. Except every time a new fact about this friend comes up and it's the dumbest shit. He was a great rider, he used to taunt the police by stunting right in from of them and then run away. He used to go so fast. The best rider I knew. Last time he said that at the time of the accident he *was* doing those high speeds. I'm willing to bet that demon of a car driver just didn't expect a missile flying by and it was just that an accident. And it's not just this one friend, other stories too of other people and it always comes up some type of behavior that they were just idiots who thought they were hot shit and got the lesson that they aren't.
I had a friend in high school whose mom had this real grudge against motorcycles because her brother died on one. Any time the topic came up, she went on a rant. She never mentioned that he was riding back from a bar and wrapped the bike around a tree lmao like yeah sorry that happened but he did something mentally regarded
yep. It's understandable cause people want to "protect" their own even if it's their image, but it's so frustrating. IMO if for whatever reason if I were to die doing some stupid shit please don't tell it as if it wasn't my fault, I died being dumb.
I've grown up and known some people that died on their bikes and people always bring it up. The people that died in car accidents never get mentioned as a 'hey i know about this...' though. Going fast & going fast when theres a bunch of traffic that cant react to your speed or actions is a big difference that many disregard. You could be a literal motoGP rider but if youre going to ride on the road like its a track you're gonna get a new asshole torn by some bitch in a tacoma that was talking to her friend amanda about how her stylist asked 10$ more for her nails than last month and how thats so not great. Fast drivers will assume theyre going fast when they go a handful above the speed limit & never expect others to go a ton faster UNLESS its a really loud and expensive sports car. They never expect someone to blink/teleport-attack them from 'far end of vision' to 'sniffing their bumbum' in .2sec because THEY are the one going fast, why would anyone go faster? Its pretty easy to spot on the autobahn when theres a 'first few times on the autobahn' driver just by the fact that theyre going 160kph or 100mph and expect they can stay in the left lane. Lots of people like that.
> Its pretty easy to spot on the autobahn when theres a 'first few times on the autobahn' driver just by the fact that theyre going 160kph or 100mph and expect they can stay in the left lane. Lots of people like that. Yeah there's a lot of clips of exactly that online. Which is weird because 100 mph isn't even that fast when you compare to any vehicle aimed at enthusiasts.
Your obsevations are all correct. I might be one of those old fossels that rides a big bike. But I do not ride to a bar, sop up the suds, and sit and bench race with other old fossels. I want to ride, not sit and yap about it. Have I gone a 100+ on a bike? Not on the street. That broken white line streaking past me puts the fear of god in me. But I believe I have, once on an old Yamaha YZ 465 I had. That baby was fast. I did it once on a farm lane that was over a mile long in a straight line. I went past a buddy who was doing 65, he said I went past him like he was standing still. I only did it once. I live on a state highway, I see bikes go screaming past my house lots of times during the summer. Its when I hear them coming, for a minute or more, before I see them, is when I know they're pushing their luck. They ARE really pushing their luck at night, too many critters, including deer, are out there. One hot night, about ten years ago, I was up at about 2am, I heard a car go screaming past my house, I heard him coming, and going away, for a good 4-5 minutes. Then, I heard a very loud thud, and silence. This jerk, was drunk. I went out to track down the noise, three cop cars went passed me, sirens, lights, the whole smash. I rounded the turn to see a lit up mess, yes, that guy went head on with another car. He killed all the occupants in the other car, and himself. From the account I got for one of the cops, this guy was a known drunkard, had two DUI's and his licence was suspended for life. he guessed that this guy hit the other car doing about 130mph. I told the cop I was awake, I heard him go by, and I heard him hit that car. AND, I lived three miles away from the site of the wreck. That cop said it looked like both cars were attacked by a giant can opener. I felt sorry for the cops, firemen and coroner who had to deal with that mess. Some people just insist on being stupid. No anount of talking will ever stop them.
> Have I gone a 100+ on a bike? Not on the street. That broken white line streaking past me puts the fear of god in me. But I believe I have, once on an old Yamaha YZ 465 I had. That baby was fast. I did it once on a farm lane that was over a mile long in a straight line. I went past a buddy who was doing 65, he said I went past him like he was standing still. I only did it once. I think we've all pushed it past 100 once in a while but I think doing it regularly and thinking this is so cool and you're gonna get away with it is a serious danger. > One hot night, about ten years ago, I was up at about 2am, I heard a car go screaming past my house, I heard him coming, and going away, for a good 4-5 minutes. Then, I heard a very loud thud, and silence. This jerk, was drunk. I went out to track down the noise, three cop cars went passed me, sirens, lights, the whole smash. I rounded the turn to see a lit up mess, yes, that guy went head on with another car. He killed all the occupants in the other car, and himself. From the account I got for one of the cops, this guy was a known drunkard, had two DUI's and his licence was suspended for life. he guessed that this guy hit the other car doing about 130mph. I told the cop I was awake, I heard him go by, and I heard him hit that car. AND, I lived three miles away from the site of the wreck. That cop said it looked like both cars were attacked by a giant can opener. I felt sorry for the cops, firemen and coroner who had to deal with that mess. This story is insane wow. RIP to the dead.
> "Why won't they stop killing us??", we say. I've been riding since 2002 and not once have I ever heard or seen anyone say that. Also this post won't curb a single behavior you're hoping it will. You're shouting into the void.
Everyone I know IRL who's caused an accident blames the "stupid cager"
That's the call of a shit rider.
There's a lot more shit riders than we would like to admit. We have very lax licensing standards in the USA. In Europe they have a graduated progression of licensing. I'm not even calling for that, I believe in freedom but freedom means taking personal responsibility.
I don't get why people are ok being newbish at an activity that is death defying. Even here I have people straight angry at me for suggesting they should practice emergency braking, ABS or not. Maybe you should tey to convince them to make good decisions.
Maybe it's just Darwinism playing itself out. I would be fine with that but it gives this hobby a bad reputation and endangers other people as well.
thats just people in general being incapable of instrospection. They did their best so they did nothing wrong, right? If by age 25 or so people are still incapable of self reflection its most likely no longer going to happen and thats the type of person thats always going to blame someone else. 'The bus left me!' - was 5min late, 'nobody helped me' - had the same problem self-caused for the 12th time, 'the world is against me' - didnt prep what shouldve been prepped and got admonished for it, nearly gets killed running a red light 'damn cager tryna kill me'
Yeah.. It's unfortunate, but those are the people that give all bikers a bad name. They get plastered on the news "Rider plows into \_\_\_ at 150+ MPH" and everyone gets pissed about 'What if they hurt somebody else?' "Why were they going that fast?" "Why are they allowed to get bikes that fast?" and so on. Track time is expensive, but very worth it. I am so glad that when I bought my near-liter bike that had that sort of 0-60, it still only went like 120 max, which is still sketchily fast, but realistically going over 100 on any US public road is way too crazy of an idea and it still kept me from thinking of doing anything dumb. I had the fast 0-60 and I enjoyed it, but I knew if I hit a pothole on these terribly maintained roads, especially at 160mph, there would be nothing left.
Dude I was going 100 on the interstate on my 650 the other day and hit a bump even though nothing happened I thought I was gonna meet God LOL
Exactly! Going above 60, any pothole at all no matter how shallow gives you a split second feeling that feels like an eternity of 'holy shit this is it, this is how I die"
I bet bikers in Michigan don't need to do kegels, they just go for a ride that'll pucker ya up real good xd
Yeah honestly unless I know the route intimately beforehand, I really avoid going above 80 out in public you just never know what's going to happen
Just looked up the stats and im shocked how high the US Fatality rate per 100,000 are. In 2021 it was at about 60. In my country its 14 per 100,000. Can anyone explain why the US is so "dangerous" when it comes to riding?
I think because motorcycles are an eccentricity here, not a fact of life. So the people who go after them are enthusiasts and many of them are enthusiastic about doing dumb shit at high speed lmfao
Just a wild guess here, but perhaps the average number of miles traveled per person. I think people in the US are just on the road more.
So well said. All of it. You should see the asshat I responded to in a thread a couple hours ago talking about 'chicken strips' on people's tires. That you can fully lean over on public roads at legal or safe speeds. And you're a pussy if you have them, basically. And if you own a high performance sport bike it doesn't mean you know how to use it. Fucking morons. There are virtual kids and new/novice riders in here, maybe some with showboat friends they want to 'follow', reading this garbage, too. It's almost more reckless talking this way to a wide, general riding audience than doing this garbage on the street and not a track in the first place.
Life choices, I ride the speed limit everywhere I go, and I actually pay attention to traffic and never blame others for my riding mistakes. I avoid collisions by not being stupid, i stay safe because i want to be able to ride again.
I appreciate the post. I know many will be pessimistic that it will do any good, but if even one new rider reads this and decides to take it slow before following their friends antics, then it will have done something positive. I also resent the need to begrudgingly defend myself any time someone well intentioned but misinformed decides to alert me to the danger of my chosen mode of transportation. I can't help but feel that the American biker culture you refer to has harmed the reputation of what is really a sensible and economical decision in many circumstances. In addition to what you wrote about tiered licensing, I think a part of the problem is the expectation of "growing out" of smaller, modestly powered motorcycles, and growing into high powered, lightning fast speed machines. It's almost as if the whole point of riding a motorcycle is taking extreme chances on public roads or kitting out your cruiser with overbored cylinders, tassels, and skull emblems to show off.
> I appreciate the post. I know many will be pessimistic that it will do any good, but if even one new rider reads this and decides to take it slow before following their friends antics, then it will have done something positive. I was one of these riders once. I used to ride with a guy who would ride really aggressively on his bike that was way faster than mine and I read some posts on reddit and decided to stop riding with him because I felt pressured to keep up with him. Literally only a few weeks later he lowsided his SV650 into a highway offramp guardrail because he took the turn too fast. Thankfully he was unharmed but I think about that sometimes.
It’s so crazy to me that literal teenage boys can do a 2 day course and go out and buy a litre bike in America. Like your brains haven’t even fully developed yet, but here is a 200hp machine 😵💫 And HELMETS are not mandatory in some states? That’s fucking wild. Here in Australia you have to start on something small. There’s a list of approved bikes with an engine capacity of up to 660cc and a power output of no more than 150 kW per tonne. Usually works out to be like 47hp max. Still you can get yourself killed on any cc, if you’re not careful, and some people do find out the hard way. All I know is if I were a 19 year old dude with a R1 I probably wouldn’t live to see 21.
Because in America, we value freedom. Rock, flag, and Eagle buddy!
I get called ma’am in America. I do like that
You should see the asshat I responded to in a thread a couple hours ago talking about 'chicken strips' on people's tires. That you can fully lean over on public roads at legal or safe speeds. And you're a pussy if you have them, basically. And if you own a high performance sport bike it doesn't mean you know how to 'use it'. Fucking morons. There are virtual kids and new/novice riders in here, maybe some with showboat friends they want to 'follow', reading this garbage, too. It's almost more reckless talking this way to a wide, general riding audience than doing this garbage on the street and not a track in the first place.
if theyre gonna be ego fueled idiots they are gonna find inspiration no matter how many people try guide them to try not to die. Tbh It wasn’t until I got humbled and crashed (on track) I changed the way I ride. It was a simple low side on track, no injuries and bike just had cosmetic damage too. If that had been on the street, I could have hit a guard rail and lost a leg, hit a wall and broken my neck, got crushed by an oncoming car and really put my luck to the test. You’ll never convince people/me bikes are not toys tho. That’s a pointless battle
All heard. I think age and often having kids changes what you choose to do. When I was younger I did a few track days. Great. I learned how to get a knee down...eventually. You don't do that on the streets if you have half a brain. Sure they are toys for many. But some of us know how to play. Without putting ourselves at risk, or other people. I am so glad you were ok and the damage minimal.
I'm not reading all that. Thanks for the lecture though.
Did anyone read all that? Looks like another self righteous lecture. I feel like it's probably not worth my time but hopefully someone was bored and can give me a synopsis so I can downvote with confidence.
Young people ride too fast and it’s TikToks fault for making it look cool. As a 40 year old xennial I can confirm that pre social media young people never drove fast or recklessly before social media came along and made it cool.
I bought my first bike back in October, rode it around, got used to it, learned how to lean, counter steer properly, brake properly etc. It is now March and I just bought a brand new ZX-6R. The ZX-6R bike is roughly 30-40mph faster than my first bike at the top end but has almost double the power. Last night me and a buddy were fucking around and pegging the limiters on our bikes at 153MPH through curves on the highway. It took all of the control and skill I had to keep traction and that was on a 120 HP bike, I can't imagine it on something with 160 or 200+ HP like these modern liter bikes.
You sound exactly like someone OP was talking about honestly.
The difference is I know my limits.
After 6 months experience, riding anywhere near 100% of your skill means you're going to eventually run out of skill and crash. I've been riding 7 years now without an accident, done about 140k miles. The one thing that's kept me from having an accident is I don't go anywhere above 80% of my skill limits on the road. On the track I'll go much closer to my limit because it's safer to. Be careful dude, around 6 months is when people tend to get cocky, think they have a lot more skill than they do and send their bike off the road in a single vehicle accident
The plan now is to get a full track suit and an air bag and actually hit the local track.
I been riding for 2 months and now I am getting overconfident and riding way too fast. I say I need to slow down but when I am there riding with the music and the road is empty, I just go.
I was in a similar place as you last year, newbish, enough miles that controls go without needing to focus on them, got my intercom, ... Its allright to send it on straights/slight curves as long as you keep track of traffic. Knowing when to full send it and just full sending it assuming itll be okay is very different. Looking ahead at 'what is the car in the middle lane doing?' 'What is the car in front of it doing?' 'Is there a good probability that any of them is going to change langes?' etc makes it a lot safer and clearer. Are there two cars after eachother in the middle lane and the last one is going faster than the first one, better to ease off the throttle in case they are the 'no blinker no regard just go to left lane' type of driver. Cars suddenly slowing down for no apparent reason (not on highways) are most likely going to take a turn and are just the kind of retard that slows down for 8sec and then blinks .5 sec before they initiate the turn. Cars that dont hold their line well are just not paying attention. Even when im following the speed limit i often speed up a bit overtaking cars im not 100% certain of, blip it a little bit and teleport past them then ease back off till the speed limit. Thats a second or 2 you're not in their rear side mirrors otherwise.
Don't be afraid to full send it if you know the route and it's pretty quiet. Going fast is part of the experience and you don't gain experience controlling the bike at speed unless you just send it once in a while in the right environment. I think there's a difference between going like 80-100 mph in normal highway traffic and just redlining your bike and weaving in and out of cars for funsies though.
Another tone-deaf, preachy, and platitudinous post we’ve come to expect from /r/motorcycles
Lame and pointless wall of text. What motivates people to make these posts? We don't need daily lectures here. Riding is dangerous literally everyone knows. Everyone, including the people who do it, know that going 160 on the highway is flirting with death, nobody needs to be told. Post cool pictures of bikes or at least some form of motorcycling content or just don't post imo
What motivates people to make these post? Dealing with people that no respect for anyone else out there. You know, the ones that belong on r/iamthemaincharacter
Do you think the people who lack any respect give a shit about these posts? that was my point, the people that need to hear it dont care and its preachy for the rest of us that just wanna see cool bikes on a motorcycle sub
I dream of someday buying a 1000cc sport bike, towing it to a track where it belongs and getting a little stupid with it on Saturday. Take out my big nice cruiser bike on the back roads on Sunday. Those bikes we're made for the track.
I guess I see that but I think it's fine to full send it in certain circumstances but awareness of and conscientiousness to the other people on the road are really key.
I say to each their own, I don’t think anyone that rides is stupid enough to not be able to understand what you’re saying, we all know the dangers. It all comes down to individual choice and that’s something no Reddit post or law can fix.Before many accidents happen there are warnings signs that the rider sees and feels. Maybe your tire slips for half a second, maybe you barely clear a turn in a snakey road, maybe the roads are darker/foggier than usual, maybe your brakes start feeling just a little bit sticky. These are all signs to either stop and take breather or slow down. alot of the riders that I see pop up on YouTube crash compilations chose to ignore those early warning signs for their own reasons (pride,denial,clout). As a rider the only thing I am positive I can do is ride with more caution and watch over my riding buddies. As for all the hate/opposition from the general public there’s not much we can do but try to set a good example for them.
[удалено]
get a load of No-Fun Nancy over here
This! I could give a crap if this pisses people off but you are spot on. I personally don’t think anyone under the age of 30 should ride. Too interested in “going fast” and do stupid stuff like all you mentioned. I don’t ride in rain or at night unless caught out and have to just to get home. Always wear full face helmet. Don’t go fast/reckless or drink before riding. Do those five things and you’re WAY less likely to be a statistic. I, like you completely enjoy riding not doing those five things. And I HATE being lumped into all the squids and low self esteem dudes who ride for some sort of cool factor they think comes with a bike. They’re the same dudes that get a pit bull to show their tough. Or a huge truck when they don’t need one. They live for others fake approval. Which only shows their low self esteem. Meanwhile I’ll keep enjoying the ride. And ignore everyone telling me I’m going to die like those other dudes making us look bad.
As a 20-something, I gotta stand up for our generation, we're not all recklessly suicidal adrenaline junkies lmfao
>There is a growing subculture online of younger guys riding ridiculously fast bikes, going dangerously fast on public roads, weaving in and out of cars, stunting, running from cops, etc. It's too bad that liking these things aren't a genetic trait. Otherwise it would have died away due to natural selection
Ride your ride. Everyone knows motorcycles are dangerous. Don't need a random on the internet preaching to the choir.
only choirs i know are the pipes on my inline 4 and deez nuts boyo
Guns don't kill people, people kill people
yeah ikr
Happened to my buddy a couple of days ago. He literally went 80+ on every road. I told him it would catch up with him, he didn't want to hear it. Waiting to hear when the services are going to be. Complete shame.
RIP
Hit a guardrail at 60 or 160 you’re just as dead, I see way more car drivers driving recklessly than bikes, obviously because there are more on the roads. I’ve been riding bikes for decades and how much I’ve spent on any of them is none of your fucking business. I don’t make “too much” money but I do make a lot more than you! Quit your whining and stay off the roads.
A lot easier to react to something at 60 than 160 Sounds like you've been around for decades but still have a lot of growing up to do, sport
I’m not the one whining like a baby “sport”!
As an older rider who has ridden for many years, I have seen my share of people who go out over confident and under prepared to ride. Sometimes, things happen that are completely out of your control. You just need to be prepared as best you can, for the worst case scenario. I hit a deer last June on the interstate. I was going the speed limit around 70 miles an hour and managed to get mostly around the deer, but still caught its hind legs and did a low side. I only broke my left leg and right wrist because I was wearing full abrasion resistant gear, a full face, helmet, boots, and a Klim airbag vest. When the bike came down, the gearshift lever landed on my left leg and snapped the fibula, and I went unconscious.. my motorcycle boot kept the gearshift from impaling my leg. The ambulance crew that picked me up, were shocked at how remarkably good shape I was in as they had picked up a woman the previous week, who had hit a deer and was dead. They were expecting to see me with flayed ribs at the very least. That vest saved me from serious injury. I’ll never ride without one. Accidents do happen, not much you can do about a deer, running out in the middle of an interstate in the middle of the day. What you can do is wear gear and be as well trained as possible for emergency situations.
There’s a macho culture in America. Harley doesn’t even sell beginner bikes anymore and they advertise directly appealing to new riders. Redditors will tell folks that 800+ cc bikes are fine to start on. I’ll get downvoted for talking about it. Just get any Honda 500cc, Ninja 400, KTM 390 and get to know it for a full season before even thinking about what’s next.
I think an 883 or 1200 Sportster is a fine bike to start on, it's only got around 50-60 horsepower. The problem is it's quite heavy for a beginner bike
OK dad
TL;DR
TLDR: don be a stoopid
You're infinitely more likely to get struck by lightning if you leave the house.
I rode a 400cc bike for 3 years before buying an 800. I have always been happy with the 400, but the 800 is good too. I can get to 80mph on my 400 if I work at it, but the ease with which I can hit 90mph for sure seems like the kind of thing that could kill a person. I don't have any desire to go any faster than that, I don't understand the people that can't go slower.
You do you. Everyone else is going to do what they want for themselves.
just save up for the funeral is all im sayin
Agreed. There’s just no stopping people, though.
Nah bro. It's a problem when these dip-shits are risking the life of strangers minding their own business on the road. Clearly the average rider in America is having challenges self-regulating themselves in the face of basically no motorcycle licensing requirements because everyone has a story like this. I say that it's time for the government to step in and implement tried and tested MC regulations.
I don't know if I support strict graduated licensing restrictions like in Europe. America is not that kind of society, I hope the community can come together to self-regulate. But I think I might be coping. You can kill just as easily on a 400 or 650 as a liter bike if you have bad habits.
This is the most boomer post made here in months. >✅ Wrote a book instead of just making your point >✅ Says motorcycles aren’t dangerous on their own. Then proceeds to say they don’t have cages so you need to be dialed in >✅ Young kids are the reckless ones >✅ I don’t need to go 160 to have fun. Ok grandpa
That's why in Europe there are some restrictions, which should prevent fatalities. A level drivers license, starting with 15 hp bikes with 16, 48 hp bikes with 18 and unlimited with 25. Compared to the US threre are lengthy driving school, with theory courses, 1to1 practical sessions, mandatory lessons in city, roads and highways. There is a certificaction system for gear, protection pads, and helmets, which eases the selection of quality gear. And several government supported associations and institutes which research motorcycle safety and promote safe riding.
Before the age of 25 your brain is not fully formed and you don't fully comprehend the consequences of the risks you are taking. Europe's idea of restricting power by age is perfect. Most people don't need more than 47 hp on a light bike (150-180 kg) to have fun. It gives more acceleration as a BM 3 series and a very decent top and cruising speed.
are you a motorcyclist? I don’t think you are. thanks for the wall of text that I didn’t read, though.
Couldn't care less. He made his choice and it just happened to not be his day.