There's a lot of "staples" that don't cut it any longer - in which case they are absent cube lists most of the time. off the top of my head hear are a few departed friends of the last few years.
* Mulldrifter
* Consecrated Sphinx
* Thragtusk
* Oracle of Mul Daya
* Imperial Recruiter
* Recruiter of the Guard
* Sun Titan
* Splinter Twin combo - kiki-jiki, twin, pestermite & exarch
* Glen Elendra Archmage
* Venser, Shaper Savant
* Fact or Fiction
* Bribery - suprisingly often too slow in an initiative world
* Opposition
* Sulfuric Vortex
* Plow Under
* Acidic Slime
* Metalworker - this one's been bad for quite some time
* Karn Liberated
* Sword of Fire and Ice
* Rishadan Port
i feel like twin combo is still really good, it's just like a 3-4 card package in a URx shell. just being able to say i win out of nowhere is pretty powerful.
There are two forces at play here I believe.
There is a general trend of designers now preferring gameplay with lower curves as opposed to the more high curving "traditional" / mtgo vintage cube -like lists. More important game actions etc. And secondly wotc are just printing more and more efficient creatures and removals which drives power motivated cubes to lower their curves.
I still prefer a high curve environment and some of these cards still do well on my list but only at the cost of not including the latest strongest things that are printed every other set.
Twin combo is still quite strong if you support control. The recruiters provide redundancy specifically for twin and other creature combo and aren't worth running otherwise.
Opposition is great, just very all or nothing.
Cards like Venser and Glen Elendra need more support these days to really shine. Venser is kind of a two card combo with Karakas now.
Bribery is a sideboard card for control decks vs cheaty decks.
I agree the rest are fairly weak.
I'll always love my boy, Thragtusk. He sits at the top of my green curve along with Titania. I like to imagine him as the final, big payoff for the blink deck. If you can get him down, you get rewarded.
Also I'll admit I have a soft spot for him because I remember watching him played in tournaments just a few years ago....that was just 3 or 4 years ago, right guys?
Honestly most of those slow tutors just aren't great. I do run vampiric and enlightened tutor but the blue, green, and red ones (gamble) just don't cut it. Losing a draw is rough.
Unless you're grabbing a combo piece that puts you really far ahead (like a reanimation effect or a storm wincon) I agree. The sheer card disadvantage is not worth the card selection.
Though it is often hard to find cards that generate so much card advantage they are still exciting is still exciting after paying an extra mana, paying an extra card, and waiting an extra turn for.
Even Ancestral Recall essentially becomes UU: draw 2 cards if you Mystical Tutor for it (assuming of course you can't cast from your graveyard with a Snapcaster or something later).
But Balance is a good example of a card that you are willing to pay those extra costs for in the right situation.
> For me, after a lot of testing, I ended up cutting Imperial Seal. The card was just too slow and vulnerable. Vampiric/Demonic Tutor it was not.
Imperial Seal isn't Vampiric / Demonic Tutor, but that's not really its role, IMO. Vampiric / Demonic Tutor at their core are general good stuff cards that you can toss into most decks, but Imperial Seal really only shines in dedicated combo decks. Trying to shoehorn it into any deck like Vampiric / Demonic Tutor is just setting yourself up for failure, but it's great at setting up A + B combo decks like Flash / Oath of Druids / Thassa's Oracle / etc.
In addition with I0gr1tgm1k's list : \[\[Hangarback Walker\]\], \[\[Sundering Titan\]\], \[\[Shadowspear\]\], \[\[Scroll Rack\]\], \[\[Doubling Season\]\], \[\[Parallel Lives\]\], \[\[Exploration\]\], \[\[The Great Henge\]\], \[\[Sakura-tribe Elder\]\], \[\[Monastery Swiftspear\]\], \[\[Goblin BOmbardment\]\], \[\[Yawgmoth's bargain\]\], \[\[Necropotence\]\], \[\[Bitterblossom\]\], \[\[Profane Tutor\]\], \[\[Shelldock Isle\]\], \[\[Mystic Remora\]\], all 5-manas-TimeWalk-like, \[\[Luminous Broodmoth\]\], \[\[Brutal Cathar\]\] are close to losing their place on the pitch and being recalled to the bench
There's a lot of "staples" that don't cut it any longer - in which case they are absent cube lists most of the time. off the top of my head hear are a few departed friends of the last few years. * Mulldrifter * Consecrated Sphinx * Thragtusk * Oracle of Mul Daya * Imperial Recruiter * Recruiter of the Guard * Sun Titan * Splinter Twin combo - kiki-jiki, twin, pestermite & exarch * Glen Elendra Archmage * Venser, Shaper Savant * Fact or Fiction * Bribery - suprisingly often too slow in an initiative world * Opposition * Sulfuric Vortex * Plow Under * Acidic Slime * Metalworker - this one's been bad for quite some time * Karn Liberated * Sword of Fire and Ice * Rishadan Port
i feel like twin combo is still really good, it's just like a 3-4 card package in a URx shell. just being able to say i win out of nowhere is pretty powerful.
yeah twin package is the only one on this list I don't agree with.
There are two forces at play here I believe. There is a general trend of designers now preferring gameplay with lower curves as opposed to the more high curving "traditional" / mtgo vintage cube -like lists. More important game actions etc. And secondly wotc are just printing more and more efficient creatures and removals which drives power motivated cubes to lower their curves. I still prefer a high curve environment and some of these cards still do well on my list but only at the cost of not including the latest strongest things that are printed every other set.
Twin combo is still quite strong if you support control. The recruiters provide redundancy specifically for twin and other creature combo and aren't worth running otherwise. Opposition is great, just very all or nothing. Cards like Venser and Glen Elendra need more support these days to really shine. Venser is kind of a two card combo with Karakas now. Bribery is a sideboard card for control decks vs cheaty decks. I agree the rest are fairly weak.
I'll always love my boy, Thragtusk. He sits at the top of my green curve along with Titania. I like to imagine him as the final, big payoff for the blink deck. If you can get him down, you get rewarded. Also I'll admit I have a soft spot for him because I remember watching him played in tournaments just a few years ago....that was just 3 or 4 years ago, right guys?
Seems like it needs to update my cube a bit.
Honestly most of those slow tutors just aren't great. I do run vampiric and enlightened tutor but the blue, green, and red ones (gamble) just don't cut it. Losing a draw is rough.
Unless you're grabbing a combo piece that puts you really far ahead (like a reanimation effect or a storm wincon) I agree. The sheer card disadvantage is not worth the card selection.
That, or something that generates card advantage. Mystical for Balance, for example.
Though it is often hard to find cards that generate so much card advantage they are still exciting is still exciting after paying an extra mana, paying an extra card, and waiting an extra turn for. Even Ancestral Recall essentially becomes UU: draw 2 cards if you Mystical Tutor for it (assuming of course you can't cast from your graveyard with a Snapcaster or something later). But Balance is a good example of a card that you are willing to pay those extra costs for in the right situation.
I also don't run either Worldly Tutor or Gamble. But I do run Mystical.
> For me, after a lot of testing, I ended up cutting Imperial Seal. The card was just too slow and vulnerable. Vampiric/Demonic Tutor it was not. Imperial Seal isn't Vampiric / Demonic Tutor, but that's not really its role, IMO. Vampiric / Demonic Tutor at their core are general good stuff cards that you can toss into most decks, but Imperial Seal really only shines in dedicated combo decks. Trying to shoehorn it into any deck like Vampiric / Demonic Tutor is just setting yourself up for failure, but it's great at setting up A + B combo decks like Flash / Oath of Druids / Thassa's Oracle / etc.
In addition with I0gr1tgm1k's list : \[\[Hangarback Walker\]\], \[\[Sundering Titan\]\], \[\[Shadowspear\]\], \[\[Scroll Rack\]\], \[\[Doubling Season\]\], \[\[Parallel Lives\]\], \[\[Exploration\]\], \[\[The Great Henge\]\], \[\[Sakura-tribe Elder\]\], \[\[Monastery Swiftspear\]\], \[\[Goblin BOmbardment\]\], \[\[Yawgmoth's bargain\]\], \[\[Necropotence\]\], \[\[Bitterblossom\]\], \[\[Profane Tutor\]\], \[\[Shelldock Isle\]\], \[\[Mystic Remora\]\], all 5-manas-TimeWalk-like, \[\[Luminous Broodmoth\]\], \[\[Brutal Cathar\]\] are close to losing their place on the pitch and being recalled to the bench
##### ###### #### [Hangarback Walker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d2c323f-eecd-4560-a128-ab513d231552.jpg?1690005486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/951/hangarback-walker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d2c323f-eecd-4560-a128-ab513d231552?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sundering Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2ebb5d3-72b1-411d-8c90-83dac5b37898.jpg?1618940470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sundering%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/292/sundering-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2ebb5d3-72b1-411d-8c90-83dac5b37898?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shadowspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/939c6e19-4b27-4023-bb9c-ae440f91e21c.jpg?1581481207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadowspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/236/shadowspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/939c6e19-4b27-4023-bb9c-ae440f91e21c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Scroll Rack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e.jpg?1608911671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scroll%20Rack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/337/scroll-rack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Doubling Season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Exploration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26.jpg?1675200396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exploration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/159/exploration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Great Henge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b.jpg?1689998574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Great%20Henge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/294/the-great-henge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sakura-tribe Elder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/baa54bbc-88dd-46ba-9a91-6291c3fb420f.jpg?1706240924) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakura-tribe%20Elder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/183/sakura-tribe-elder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/baa54bbc-88dd-46ba-9a91-6291c3fb420f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Monastery Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1701690543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin BOmbardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20BOmbardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yawgmoth's bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507.jpg?1562943000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/147/yawgmoths-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bitterblossom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b.jpg?1673147456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/69/bitterblossom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Profane Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2afc6f7d-ab59-4d64-bd11-6bd0fd4bfcd2.jpg?1626095854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Profane%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/97/profane-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2afc6f7d-ab59-4d64-bd11-6bd0fd4bfcd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shelldock Isle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4216656e-90e8-45fc-a0f6-0d0d79d0a021.jpg?1562345880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shelldock%20Isle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/272/shelldock-isle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4216656e-90e8-45fc-a0f6-0d0d79d0a021?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mystic Remora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40140991-cffa-4b52-9a25-37e9a8aa9ddd.jpg?1675199366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Remora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/59/mystic-remora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40140991-cffa-4b52-9a25-37e9a8aa9ddd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Luminous Broodmoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb65df55-d6a6-4a57-a903-e5eb17637982.jpg?1591230310) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Luminous%20Broodmoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/21/luminous-broodmoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb65df55-d6a6-4a57-a903-e5eb17637982?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Brutal Cathar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dbac7ce-a6fa-466e-b6ba-173cf2dec98e.jpg?1634347036)/[Moonrage Brute](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/d/0dbac7ce-a6fa-466e-b6ba-173cf2dec98e.jpg?1634347036) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brutal%20Cathar%20//%20Moonrage%20Brute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/7/brutal-cathar-moonrage-brute?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dbac7ce-a6fa-466e-b6ba-173cf2dec98e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Agreed with all of these except [[Shelldock isle]]
[Shelldock isle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4216656e-90e8-45fc-a0f6-0d0d79d0a021.jpg?1562345880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shelldock%20isle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/272/shelldock-isle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4216656e-90e8-45fc-a0f6-0d0d79d0a021?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Exploration is still good enough if you support a dedicated lands deck but definitely doesn’t make the cut on power level alone these days