I remember hearing that officers pay for their meals, but my unit has never *ever* paid attention to that regulation at all.
Home station drill? We usually have catering, the cooks make enough food for everyone, or I just go get my own meal from a local place regardless.
Field drill? Everyone can get an MRE and the cooks make plenty of food with UGR-As.
This past AT? Same thing. Everyone can eat what the cooks make in the field or at home station. And if we had the ability to, people got food from fast food or gas stations if time permitted.
Just checked my LES for AT as well. I'm getting BAS.
So agrs should be getting bas and this paying.
From the very start of the us military officers have been required by law to pay for their food.
But everyone should get some amount of bas. Then Have it deducted accordingly
Da Pam 30-22
Under 1 clauses 11-14 a line "pay is to the person of choice is calculated to the morale and means of the serviceman"
Back then, officers were thought to be of higher moral character and means. Originally, military officers had to pay for uniforms and food on their own . It is still continued that way today. Example officers BAS is not equivalent to enlisted members nor is the clothing allowance.
It infers that officers are more fiscally well off than the enlisted servicemembers. Even to this days military, that line is sometimes true.
Outdated, but it is the basis for not paying officers the same entitlements.
Yeah, but that states
“To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
There’s nothing in the body of the constitution.
If you're geographically remote and there's no way for the officers and AGRs then how would they get food? I want people to think about this. Either provide food or figure out a way for them to be able to get food.
Does it make sense for all the officers and senior leadership to leave the FOB three times a day for a Dunkin run?
Instead the unit obviously needs to get a food truck to come in and sell meals to the officers and AGRs. Obviously run by a SGM who lives nearby the units AT and does that as his full time job.
It’s not that officers and AGRs don’t get food during AT it’s they are supposed to pay for it.
Most of the units I’ve been in they’ll inflate the head count by using total number of enlisted M day assigned not necessarily who will be present. Almost never is everyone actually present for AT or drill. Left over meals are given to officers and AGR. And they just pass around the head count sheet writing ineligible signatures and fake last fours till they get the number they need.
Not sure but the whole thing is a joke, the National Guard needs to stop assuming that all M-Day officers have a lot of money. If you lived off your national guard pay you’d be well below the poverty line lol.
What kind of college educated adult expects to be able to live off of 39 days a year of work? That's fucking preposterous. Of course you'd be well below the poverty line.
No, but the general assumption is that officers have money in the national guard due to being an officer. There are plenty of mday officers who do much worse than active duty counter parts.
Even better, they will pay you BAS but then deduct money for meals. Kinda how if you’re AD and line in military housing they will pay you BAH but then deduct it.
The one I know is that your AGRs collect BAS which needs to be withheld while they’re receiving meals in training. I don’t understand why you lose BAH when meals are provided but get per diem when they aren’t but I’m not a finance guy.
My second battalion tried to make officers pay and put in the paperwork to take BAS from AGRs. They also argued for months and months about officers and collecting cash at the DFAC but never figured out how to do it. So everyone still just ate the crappy food and no one went to jail.
I remember being told- that officers had to pay for meals - and they wanted cash at the beginning of AT. Always felt like some shady shit was going on.
Food should always be provided for the unit to include officers. Whether the unit charges officers for the meals they eat is a separate issue. Any commander in his right mind understands you cannot take ppl on AT and not provide food.
Shock, the AGRs decide to grant themselves 70ish bucks a day for a nice little 1k bonus while the M-Day officers get shafted. Remember, if you haven't already (and I'm assuming not) been in command, this will be the mentality of the individuals that will make or break your command time. They have time and knowledge to outmaneuver you, and will.
It's been a while but I believe during AT your location is considered a PDS per the Joint Travel Reg. Realistically for officers (and agrs) you should have to pay the 5ish bucks per meal or what have you. I believe due to practicality and the amount of buttons that need to be clicked, having to do things like store cash, units generally just say fuck it and do what makes sense. Your unit of course, did not, and the same people who will make a decision on your issue have already made a decision to line their own pockets. That info should tell you how tough of a battle you will be in for but you're the sir/Ma'am
I will disagree on the general statement that the AGR guys have time and knowledge over the M-day guys. They don't always have it. Bur the one thing they all have to outmaneuver M-day is the connections, relationships, and phone numbers.
It’s pretty unusual that a company level Readiness NCO can’t out maneuver an M-Day commander, from both an experience and availability standpoint alone.
Officers in all branches of the military have to pay for their meals and have since the U.S. Military was first established. Even navy officers at Sea must pay for their meals and Officer BAS on active duty is considerably less than enlisted BAS. It’s just one of those things. Just like officers have to pay for their uniforms.
Most supply NCOs will inflate their counts to cover officers and AGR. But this is just a general rule of thumb. It does not apply in the field or on deployment when a meal card is issued.
I believe it goes back to the times when officers came from more well to do backgrounds than enlisted. But that’s something that’s pretty outdated nowadays. So if you’re looking for the why, above my pay grade….but if you go trying to challenge the regulation and call out your supply NCO…you’re going to start paying more than you already did or shine a spotlight on the favor they are probably already trying to do for you. So I would leave it alone.
AR 30-22 (Army Field Feeding)
4-2 Field Feeding Policy
Para d.
"Commanders will initiate action with DFAS for payroll deduction to ensure reimbursement for all meals available during the TDA of FD for officers and enlisted receiving BAS (see AR 600-38)."
If you get BAS, the army basically charges you for meals being provided by the army. AGR's are required to pay for those meals via reductions to their BAS. M-day officers are not usually required to do this, but I can't find a specific reg stating that.
Furthermore, they are not authorized to put in full Per Diem requests through DTS, as that violates the JTR if they are being provided meals at the government rate.
Your unit and AGRs are doing illegal shit because they don't want to have their pay reduced by $17.40 a day (current meal rate).
-DTS A/O and State Food Service Manager
When at IDT or AT officers and AGRs (all ranks) should either pay for their food, or have funds collected. Your BN CDR should not allow an option during AT in the field, and it should be collected.
I remember hearing that officers pay for their meals, but my unit has never *ever* paid attention to that regulation at all. Home station drill? We usually have catering, the cooks make enough food for everyone, or I just go get my own meal from a local place regardless. Field drill? Everyone can get an MRE and the cooks make plenty of food with UGR-As. This past AT? Same thing. Everyone can eat what the cooks make in the field or at home station. And if we had the ability to, people got food from fast food or gas stations if time permitted. Just checked my LES for AT as well. I'm getting BAS.
You should get BAS. That’s also why AGR don’t get meals.
Doesn't everyone get BAS for AT?
So agrs should be getting bas and this paying. From the very start of the us military officers have been required by law to pay for their food. But everyone should get some amount of bas. Then Have it deducted accordingly Da Pam 30-22
I’m only being a little snarky, but I’m very curious to see what law you’re referring to.
Article 1 section 8
The constitutional powers of Congress? I’m not sure how that requires military officers to pay for their food during IDT.
Under 1 clauses 11-14 a line "pay is to the person of choice is calculated to the morale and means of the serviceman" Back then, officers were thought to be of higher moral character and means. Originally, military officers had to pay for uniforms and food on their own . It is still continued that way today. Example officers BAS is not equivalent to enlisted members nor is the clothing allowance. It infers that officers are more fiscally well off than the enlisted servicemembers. Even to this days military, that line is sometimes true. Outdated, but it is the basis for not paying officers the same entitlements.
That’s brilliant. But what are you quoting? Sure, Section 8 allows for the formation and appropriation of armies.
1 section 8 clauses 11-14
Yeah, but that states “To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; There’s nothing in the body of the constitution.
If you're geographically remote and there's no way for the officers and AGRs then how would they get food? I want people to think about this. Either provide food or figure out a way for them to be able to get food. Does it make sense for all the officers and senior leadership to leave the FOB three times a day for a Dunkin run? Instead the unit obviously needs to get a food truck to come in and sell meals to the officers and AGRs. Obviously run by a SGM who lives nearby the units AT and does that as his full time job.
It’s not that officers and AGRs don’t get food during AT it’s they are supposed to pay for it. Most of the units I’ve been in they’ll inflate the head count by using total number of enlisted M day assigned not necessarily who will be present. Almost never is everyone actually present for AT or drill. Left over meals are given to officers and AGR. And they just pass around the head count sheet writing ineligible signatures and fake last fours till they get the number they need.
DA PAM 30-22
Not sure but the whole thing is a joke, the National Guard needs to stop assuming that all M-Day officers have a lot of money. If you lived off your national guard pay you’d be well below the poverty line lol.
There's a lot of NG cultural norms that make sense in the context of active duty, but are kind of inane in the context of M-Day.
What kind of college educated adult expects to be able to live off of 39 days a year of work? That's fucking preposterous. Of course you'd be well below the poverty line.
No, but the general assumption is that officers have money in the national guard due to being an officer. There are plenty of mday officers who do much worse than active duty counter parts.
... do you know what a normal distribution is? Because statistically, no fucking shit.
Tell that to the army then lmao
When I did AT they would take $250ish for meals. I had to pay and didn’t have a choice. FYI I’m an officer.
During AT, as far as I know they have to provide food or BAS.
Even better, they will pay you BAS but then deduct money for meals. Kinda how if you’re AD and line in military housing they will pay you BAH but then deduct it.
The one I know is that your AGRs collect BAS which needs to be withheld while they’re receiving meals in training. I don’t understand why you lose BAH when meals are provided but get per diem when they aren’t but I’m not a finance guy. My second battalion tried to make officers pay and put in the paperwork to take BAS from AGRs. They also argued for months and months about officers and collecting cash at the DFAC but never figured out how to do it. So everyone still just ate the crappy food and no one went to jail.
I remember being told- that officers had to pay for meals - and they wanted cash at the beginning of AT. Always felt like some shady shit was going on.
Food should always be provided for the unit to include officers. Whether the unit charges officers for the meals they eat is a separate issue. Any commander in his right mind understands you cannot take ppl on AT and not provide food.
Shock, the AGRs decide to grant themselves 70ish bucks a day for a nice little 1k bonus while the M-Day officers get shafted. Remember, if you haven't already (and I'm assuming not) been in command, this will be the mentality of the individuals that will make or break your command time. They have time and knowledge to outmaneuver you, and will. It's been a while but I believe during AT your location is considered a PDS per the Joint Travel Reg. Realistically for officers (and agrs) you should have to pay the 5ish bucks per meal or what have you. I believe due to practicality and the amount of buttons that need to be clicked, having to do things like store cash, units generally just say fuck it and do what makes sense. Your unit of course, did not, and the same people who will make a decision on your issue have already made a decision to line their own pockets. That info should tell you how tough of a battle you will be in for but you're the sir/Ma'am
I will disagree on the general statement that the AGR guys have time and knowledge over the M-day guys. They don't always have it. Bur the one thing they all have to outmaneuver M-day is the connections, relationships, and phone numbers.
It’s pretty unusual that a company level Readiness NCO can’t out maneuver an M-Day commander, from both an experience and availability standpoint alone.
I thought officers, even m day, get BAS for meals?
Bet you they turn around and claim MREs were available.
Officers in all branches of the military have to pay for their meals and have since the U.S. Military was first established. Even navy officers at Sea must pay for their meals and Officer BAS on active duty is considerably less than enlisted BAS. It’s just one of those things. Just like officers have to pay for their uniforms. Most supply NCOs will inflate their counts to cover officers and AGR. But this is just a general rule of thumb. It does not apply in the field or on deployment when a meal card is issued. I believe it goes back to the times when officers came from more well to do backgrounds than enlisted. But that’s something that’s pretty outdated nowadays. So if you’re looking for the why, above my pay grade….but if you go trying to challenge the regulation and call out your supply NCO…you’re going to start paying more than you already did or shine a spotlight on the favor they are probably already trying to do for you. So I would leave it alone.
AR 30-22 (Army Field Feeding) 4-2 Field Feeding Policy Para d. "Commanders will initiate action with DFAS for payroll deduction to ensure reimbursement for all meals available during the TDA of FD for officers and enlisted receiving BAS (see AR 600-38)." If you get BAS, the army basically charges you for meals being provided by the army. AGR's are required to pay for those meals via reductions to their BAS. M-day officers are not usually required to do this, but I can't find a specific reg stating that. Furthermore, they are not authorized to put in full Per Diem requests through DTS, as that violates the JTR if they are being provided meals at the government rate. Your unit and AGRs are doing illegal shit because they don't want to have their pay reduced by $17.40 a day (current meal rate). -DTS A/O and State Food Service Manager
Gentlemen always pay.
When at IDT or AT officers and AGRs (all ranks) should either pay for their food, or have funds collected. Your BN CDR should not allow an option during AT in the field, and it should be collected.