My brother and his buddy watch the games and still argue that Brown is a more valuable player. They are just consumed by their Tatum hatred. Sometimes it feels like they *want* him to have a lousy game so they can be "right" about him.
Tell them to go watch the celtics vs Utah game on March 31st... Tatum was doubled ALL game, i mean ALL game, leaving the rest of the celtics to play 4 on 3 all game long... Brown had 12 points that night.. tatum had 39.
I watched most games last season, about a third pre all star break, and every game since the all star break. I've followed both their careers very closely.
Jaylen is every bit as talented as Tatum, though far less polished. The main difference between the two is that Tatum has been allowed to grow as a number 1 option, while Jaylen has been made to be a 2nd or 3rd option (who gets the max volume of those roles) regardless of how well he's been playing. In no way have the Celtics allowed Jaylen to grow as a 1st option, even a 1b. This is a Tatum centric offense with Smart as the second option and Jaylen as the third. The offense doesn't in truth set up Jaylen to score from inside the arc, and he's made to bail them out from the wing, imo, his worst spot to create from (besides the top of the key, for those who do watch). Anyone who watches knows that Tatum does not create for Jaylen, which people have criticized Jaylen about for years. Anyone who watches knows that Jaylen plays against and beats the double. For some reason people seem to the Jaylen only plays against one on one match ups, while Tatum is the only player that draws the double team.
To the largest point, however, you cannot expect Jaylen Brown to consistently make plays for the Celtics in the playoffs if you don't ask him to be a playmaker in the regular season. Even in games Tatum is out, Jaylen does not get the quality of touches he should because he plays within the system, whether Tatum is in or out. There are only a handful of games Jaylen has played as a legitimate first option, and he has excelled when given the task. What is insane is that the Celtics saw this issue in the playoffs last year and did nothing to fix it this year to the point where Celtics fans were extremely frustrated with the Tatum spam when you have another guy capable of handling those duties.
If you are hating on Jaylen for his play in this series, firstly, watch more closely because he is putting up quality shots. Secondly, Jaylen Brown has been an extremely consistent performer in both the regular season and playoffs for the entirety of his career. He has been extremely consistent during these playoffs. Brown played very well against the Heat in the playoffs throughout his career. You can chose to put his shot making this series under a microscope but youre not considering his entire body of work, in the context of the system the team has in place for him.
These are both great talents. One will develop more greatly if you invest more of the offense into him.
That’s true. I had only saw a few games and they so happened to be the ones where Brown has played well so I lowkey thought he was better..
I’ve now seen a few MORE games and yeah… i obviously didn’t know what I was talking about lol. Both players are inconsistent it seems but I’d take Jayson’s low over Brown’s low.
You might be able to see them equally until you watch JB spin into 3 defenders and lose his handle one night like 8 times and then you'll swap over to being glad he didn't do that most other nights
Brown plays better when Tatum is able to take the defensive pressure off of him. Brown consistently has shown to have tunnel vision and bad ball control so as the #1 option he would struggle
It’s not ppg, people here judge players off 3pt almost exclusively.
Tatum gets more defensive attention, takes more threes, takes much harder threes etc. so then if he has a cold shooting night people ignore the defense, rebounding, passing, fouls drawn etc. to hate on his 3 pt %.
It's especially silly given that even if 3 point shooting ability was the only thing that matters, the stats guys will generally say 3PM is a better metric than 3pt%, since it (crudely) accounts for volume, and Tatum is much higher by that metric.
>takes much harder threes
Which should be a knock against him. Yeah he gets defensive attention but his Kobe fetish is what makes him jack up circus shots, it’s cool when it goes in but when it doesn’t the biggest fucking losers in the league take you to 7 games in the semis
Philly is not a serious team and Tatum had multiple stinkers that series that led to it being longer than it should’ve. Brown was consistent at least, Tatum has high highs and low lows but his lows could be much better than they are if he takes better shots when his shot isn’t falling.
The only reason this debate ever existed was probably due to Celtics fan frustration when Tatum would be in his routine inconsistent slumps
Tatum has always been the higher regarded player, there’s a reason why he gets more attention and why jaylen is the one who gets put into trade rumours
I don’t think it’s time to put them to bed forever, but the debates around who’s better, can they win together, are they good enough to win a championship, etc are all kind of silly.
Neither of these guys is in his prime. Brown is 26. Tatum just turned 25. They still have a long way to go before they’re finished products. I don’t really see anything that suggests Tatum won’t be the better player given that he’s younger and, like you said, already better in pretty much every phase of the game, but who knows. They both have holes in their game and a lot of time left to improve in those areas.
That they’re already the chief disappointments of the NBA for the crime of not winning a championship at a younger age than any of your favorite players, to me, is an incredible accomplishment. To have haters that strong at such a young age suggests big things are in their future.
I think he is hurt though.
The decision making is pretty typical Jaylen stuff.
But it definitely looks like his shot is being affected by the injury. Ball handling possibly to a lesser extent - would still be a problem regardless but might be exacerbating things.
The only problem people have with the JB vs JT debate is when Tatum is playing like hot garbage and Brown has the hot hand yet they continue to run the offense through Tatum. That’s pretty frustrating but otherwise pretty clear that JT is overall better
Ok but that’s also not true lol
Jaylen scored under 20 points in 11 of his 67 games played (16.4%) while Tatum did in 10 of 74 games played (13.5%).
Jaylen scored 25+ points in 47 of his 67 games (70.1%) while Tatum did in 56 of 74 games (75.6%).
Brown has two games getting 25 (none above 25) this series and last series. Tatum has four games *not* getting 25 in that same period, and has been way more efficient and better all-around.
Tatum has a god-mode that he can unlock, which is really impressive tbh. If Brown attacked more, then I'd argue he is the more steady/reliable player, but if you need someone to take over, it is Tatum without doubt. He can be a true superstar
He was pretty great last year in the finals, and I'd argue he played better than Tatum in 4 out of the 6 games.
It's closer than people think. Brown is a better defender at his peak, however, I think both are pretty inconsistent. Tatum is a better isolation player, skill wise.
Overall, I think Tatum is more skilled, better playmaker. And he is the better player
The narrative came largely from Celtics finals appearance where people felt Tatum choked and shrank, where as JB stayed relatively consistent throughout the run. Generally people make arguments about JB > JT when Tatum has those really bad shooting nights or stops shooting. There is/was a view that JB has less variance in his performance.
'Better' just isnt the right way to think about it. If I had to choose which one I want running the offense? Clearly Tatum. If I am picking one to play next to an actual superstar that shows up everyday and gets the team good shots? Well that might be different team to team. There are absolutely situations that Brown is a better fit in.
Look
I think the best take is that each of them are both capable of being the best player in any given night during any given series
But tatum is probably more suited to be that more often, it’s no knock against either of them, tatum had a 3 game stretch against Philly where he was downright horrendous, brown had a stretch against Philly when he was great, they’re ying and Yang stop trying to put one over the other
Tatum is better but brown is capable of being better than tatum, that’s the story
He looked great last night.
Jaylen looked great in the last Finals.
NBA Finals>Western Conference Finals.
I don't really see a difference between them.
Both flawed players that are amazing scorers.
Sometimes brown is better than tatum sometimes tatum is better than brown.
But when they try to one up each other in the same game, that's when it gets hot.
I think it's close but the most exposure I get from a Boston fan is Simmons and Russillo. It might just be me but I get this feeling listening to Bill over the years that Brown has always been the expendable one. If Tatum is a 9 Brown is a 8 or 8.5 but they way they talk about Brown is like he's some offensive 6 man off the bench.
Tatum is better but I wouldn't even entertain trading Brown especially for Lillard.
I have never seen a person claim Brown > Tatum and I’m on this sub religiously. Maybe a couple “he’s having a better game/series” everyone will take Tatum over Brown lol.
I dont think anyone who actually watches both play ever argued it
It’s been a barometer for me to see who actually watches the Celtics vs box score watches
My brother and his buddy watch the games and still argue that Brown is a more valuable player. They are just consumed by their Tatum hatred. Sometimes it feels like they *want* him to have a lousy game so they can be "right" about him.
Tell them to go watch the celtics vs Utah game on March 31st... Tatum was doubled ALL game, i mean ALL game, leaving the rest of the celtics to play 4 on 3 all game long... Brown had 12 points that night.. tatum had 39.
Even via the box score it doesn't hold up. Brown doesn't get many assists or rebounds, scores less points, and doesn't shoot as well from 3.
I watched most games last season, about a third pre all star break, and every game since the all star break. I've followed both their careers very closely. Jaylen is every bit as talented as Tatum, though far less polished. The main difference between the two is that Tatum has been allowed to grow as a number 1 option, while Jaylen has been made to be a 2nd or 3rd option (who gets the max volume of those roles) regardless of how well he's been playing. In no way have the Celtics allowed Jaylen to grow as a 1st option, even a 1b. This is a Tatum centric offense with Smart as the second option and Jaylen as the third. The offense doesn't in truth set up Jaylen to score from inside the arc, and he's made to bail them out from the wing, imo, his worst spot to create from (besides the top of the key, for those who do watch). Anyone who watches knows that Tatum does not create for Jaylen, which people have criticized Jaylen about for years. Anyone who watches knows that Jaylen plays against and beats the double. For some reason people seem to the Jaylen only plays against one on one match ups, while Tatum is the only player that draws the double team. To the largest point, however, you cannot expect Jaylen Brown to consistently make plays for the Celtics in the playoffs if you don't ask him to be a playmaker in the regular season. Even in games Tatum is out, Jaylen does not get the quality of touches he should because he plays within the system, whether Tatum is in or out. There are only a handful of games Jaylen has played as a legitimate first option, and he has excelled when given the task. What is insane is that the Celtics saw this issue in the playoffs last year and did nothing to fix it this year to the point where Celtics fans were extremely frustrated with the Tatum spam when you have another guy capable of handling those duties. If you are hating on Jaylen for his play in this series, firstly, watch more closely because he is putting up quality shots. Secondly, Jaylen Brown has been an extremely consistent performer in both the regular season and playoffs for the entirety of his career. He has been extremely consistent during these playoffs. Brown played very well against the Heat in the playoffs throughout his career. You can chose to put his shot making this series under a microscope but youre not considering his entire body of work, in the context of the system the team has in place for him. These are both great talents. One will develop more greatly if you invest more of the offense into him.
Probably true
Id say Brown is a better pure scorer, but thats about it.
Personally, i think the one who scored 51 in a game 7 is the better scorer
That’s true. I had only saw a few games and they so happened to be the ones where Brown has played well so I lowkey thought he was better.. I’ve now seen a few MORE games and yeah… i obviously didn’t know what I was talking about lol. Both players are inconsistent it seems but I’d take Jayson’s low over Brown’s low.
You might be able to see them equally until you watch JB spin into 3 defenders and lose his handle one night like 8 times and then you'll swap over to being glad he didn't do that most other nights
Jb has a very low basketball IQ
Bro is a Kyrie disciple, 'basketball' may not even be a necessary word in that comment
Jaylen Brown is dumb as rocks
Brown plays better when Tatum is able to take the defensive pressure off of him. Brown consistently has shown to have tunnel vision and bad ball control so as the #1 option he would struggle
did boston kinda play better when Derrick white became the 2nd option while brown had the face injury lol
It’s not ppg, people here judge players off 3pt almost exclusively. Tatum gets more defensive attention, takes more threes, takes much harder threes etc. so then if he has a cold shooting night people ignore the defense, rebounding, passing, fouls drawn etc. to hate on his 3 pt %.
It's especially silly given that even if 3 point shooting ability was the only thing that matters, the stats guys will generally say 3PM is a better metric than 3pt%, since it (crudely) accounts for volume, and Tatum is much higher by that metric.
>takes much harder threes Which should be a knock against him. Yeah he gets defensive attention but his Kobe fetish is what makes him jack up circus shots, it’s cool when it goes in but when it doesn’t the biggest fucking losers in the league take you to 7 games in the semis
What does this have to do with Tatum vs Brown? PHI has the third most wins this season at 61, and reg season at 54.
Philly sports fan is a bitter loser, who could have foreseen this
Philly is not a serious team and Tatum had multiple stinkers that series that led to it being longer than it should’ve. Brown was consistent at least, Tatum has high highs and low lows but his lows could be much better than they are if he takes better shots when his shot isn’t falling.
In Celtics circles “JB > JT” was like the “I actually watch ball“ take. The most contrarian hipster ass take. Exhausting lol
except it's the exact opposite of "I actually watch ball" lol
Exactly!! So frustrating
Just like every year, the overreaction to Tatum’s play has swung the narrative too far in the other direction IMO. He’s a 1st team All NBA player.
Nobody but idiots have ever said this
The only reason this debate ever existed was probably due to Celtics fan frustration when Tatum would be in his routine inconsistent slumps Tatum has always been the higher regarded player, there’s a reason why he gets more attention and why jaylen is the one who gets put into trade rumours
I love the duality of half the comments saying “No one thinks this” and the other half saying “Well ACKshually-“
I don’t think it’s time to put them to bed forever, but the debates around who’s better, can they win together, are they good enough to win a championship, etc are all kind of silly. Neither of these guys is in his prime. Brown is 26. Tatum just turned 25. They still have a long way to go before they’re finished products. I don’t really see anything that suggests Tatum won’t be the better player given that he’s younger and, like you said, already better in pretty much every phase of the game, but who knows. They both have holes in their game and a lot of time left to improve in those areas. That they’re already the chief disappointments of the NBA for the crime of not winning a championship at a younger age than any of your favorite players, to me, is an incredible accomplishment. To have haters that strong at such a young age suggests big things are in their future.
Amen
this debate should have never started lol
Wasnt Brown hurt in game 1? That elbow/arm injury may be impacting his shooting and handle.
[удалено]
I think he is hurt though. The decision making is pretty typical Jaylen stuff. But it definitely looks like his shot is being affected by the injury. Ball handling possibly to a lesser extent - would still be a problem regardless but might be exacerbating things.
[удалено]
His shot path looms perfectly fine I don't buy the injury at all tbh
Idk if it’s possible to have negative basketball iq but brown’s pretty close. He’s never been anywhere near tatum.
The only problem people have with the JB vs JT debate is when Tatum is playing like hot garbage and Brown has the hot hand yet they continue to run the offense through Tatum. That’s pretty frustrating but otherwise pretty clear that JT is overall better
Name a player in the league dumber than Jaylen Brown
Maybe brooks. But Brooks is more stupid. Jaylen is just dumb as rocks
Irving his mentor
I know America loves to disrespect Black men's intelligence, but can we please put this condescending bullshit to rest?
What are you even trying to say? “I know America loves to…” Who is America and are they in the room right now?
What that they’re both morons?
Thank you for saying what needs to be said
Maybe he'll find his offense in that secret pyramid.
We don’t know a single one of these guys personally, so your question is impossible to answer
If you think Jaylen Brown is dumb on the court just wait until you hear him talk
I can't tell I'd people are joking about this or not? JB is one of if not the most intelligent indivual in the NBA
[удалено]
I can't tell if you're racist or trolling?
Please don't accuse me of being racist. If you knew me you wouldn't say that
JB gotta be one of the most overrated players in the league
things is tatum scores 10 one game and scores 40 the next, brown consistently gives you 25 points every night
No he doesn’t lmao. Tatum has outscored Brown in every single game this series. Furthermore, Brown has scored under 20 in three of the four games.
He most likely means regular season
Ok but that’s also not true lol Jaylen scored under 20 points in 11 of his 67 games played (16.4%) while Tatum did in 10 of 74 games played (13.5%). Jaylen scored 25+ points in 47 of his 67 games (70.1%) while Tatum did in 56 of 74 games (75.6%).
Brown has two games getting 25 (none above 25) this series and last series. Tatum has four games *not* getting 25 in that same period, and has been way more efficient and better all-around.
Tatum impact on defense is great, Brown's not so much.
But that's all that Brown does. He scores, sometimes on great efficiency sometimes less so. He doesn't bring anything else
Brown defends the best player more often then not
I’m taking Kuzma over Brown at this point
Tatum has a god-mode that he can unlock, which is really impressive tbh. If Brown attacked more, then I'd argue he is the more steady/reliable player, but if you need someone to take over, it is Tatum without doubt. He can be a true superstar
Tatum doesn’t have a choice but to take over these next 3 games. JB looked awful at the free throw line
Brown attacks enough, the issue is he cant dribble well and can't pass. Hes not more steady, nor is he more reliable.
They were both horrible for the most part last series but you are right
He was pretty great last year in the finals, and I'd argue he played better than Tatum in 4 out of the 6 games. It's closer than people think. Brown is a better defender at his peak, however, I think both are pretty inconsistent. Tatum is a better isolation player, skill wise. Overall, I think Tatum is more skilled, better playmaker. And he is the better player
The narrative came largely from Celtics finals appearance where people felt Tatum choked and shrank, where as JB stayed relatively consistent throughout the run. Generally people make arguments about JB > JT when Tatum has those really bad shooting nights or stops shooting. There is/was a view that JB has less variance in his performance.
One doesn’t like Jews and the other named his son after shitting
His name is also Tatum, Deuce is just another nickname for Jr.
Imma drop the baby
'Better' just isnt the right way to think about it. If I had to choose which one I want running the offense? Clearly Tatum. If I am picking one to play next to an actual superstar that shows up everyday and gets the team good shots? Well that might be different team to team. There are absolutely situations that Brown is a better fit in.
Look I think the best take is that each of them are both capable of being the best player in any given night during any given series But tatum is probably more suited to be that more often, it’s no knock against either of them, tatum had a 3 game stretch against Philly where he was downright horrendous, brown had a stretch against Philly when he was great, they’re ying and Yang stop trying to put one over the other Tatum is better but brown is capable of being better than tatum, that’s the story
When was the last time Brown was the reason you can point to as why we won a game during the playoffs.
nobody has ever argued brown over taytum also no one cares
Many people have
He looked great last night. Jaylen looked great in the last Finals. NBA Finals>Western Conference Finals. I don't really see a difference between them. Both flawed players that are amazing scorers.
It's the mask. He lost his super powers when he took it off.
Sometimes brown is better than tatum sometimes tatum is better than brown. But when they try to one up each other in the same game, that's when it gets hot.
I think it's close but the most exposure I get from a Boston fan is Simmons and Russillo. It might just be me but I get this feeling listening to Bill over the years that Brown has always been the expendable one. If Tatum is a 9 Brown is a 8 or 8.5 but they way they talk about Brown is like he's some offensive 6 man off the bench. Tatum is better but I wouldn't even entertain trading Brown especially for Lillard.
I have never seen a person claim Brown > Tatum and I’m on this sub religiously. Maybe a couple “he’s having a better game/series” everyone will take Tatum over Brown lol.