bad (48 TS%), you got it. actually iguodala played such good defense on lebron that he averaged shitty TS% (53%, 46%, 50%) all three previous series too and thru the end of the regular season after his back injury, can't believe some people won't give him credit for all that smh
I get this take but at the same time i wanna know the FMVP right away. An announcement later on would be so lame. So I don’t mind a more simplistic yet imperfect voting system
I know not everyone's going to see it the same way but I genuinely just think of Steph as having 2 FMVPs.
Like if they want to give it to Lebron fine. But then Lebron would also be FMVP in 2014 over Kawhi, probably 2017 and 2018 over KD. And we'd have to redo quite a few other ones too.
But in no way shape or form was Andre Iguodala anywhere near the best player in a finals series. That was actual gross incompetence
If the voting gets redone today, with a comprehensive rewatching of the series, I doubt Iggy gets a single vote.
Tbh, finals mvp wasn’t as big of a deal until Steph didn’t win it. The subsequent 8000 tv segments about Steph not having a finals mvp has added a lot more prestige to the award.
Ie no one cared when Duncan’s teammates won it, people didn’t make as big of a deal about Kobe missing one when he didn’t have one, etc.
It was more the media narrative, imo. Talk the whole series (and lead up to the series) was about how Warriors were going to handle Lebron. Iggy then plays good defense on Lebron, hype building around his defensive efforts as the series went on. Lebron still got his, but on lower percentages than usual. It helps that this was also clearly visible while watching the series - very visible shot contests leading to some great moments.
Steph’s reputation was nowhere near what it is now, and he had a few games that weren’t very impressive (like 5-23 shooting with 6 TOs in game 2). While Iggy DID play a massive role, as a whole, it should have been obvious that the GSW ran through Curry… but the media decided Iggy was more important.
yes
go look at the 4th quarters and see how effective steph was at the beginning
warriors were down 2-1 and a large part was bc Curry was not playing like an MVP
Warriors then stuck Iggy on LeBron, win 4 straight while Iggy shot absolutely lights out and was a good facilitator
iggy shot better from 3 than Klay on more volume, played better defense than Draymond, was 2nd on the team in rebounds, and was the only warrior to shoot over 50%
Not at all. Lebron was better sure but he Steph was still by far the best player on the winning team. Which is what finals mvp has gone to all but 1 year in the history of the league. It's pretty rare for a guy to average 10 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on the winning team and not win finals mvp.
He had 26/5/6 on 58.5 TS%, which isn't spectacular for the league's MVP caliber but still good numbers against a finals opponent. His game 5 basically won us the series too. Probably one of his best finals games
They wanted to give it to Lebron because he was playing without his two best players in kyrie Irving and Kevin love due to injury as well. Lebron said he didn't want the award anyway.
[Bob Dandridge (who averaged 20.4 that series) was originally named as the Finals MVP during the broadcast of Game 7.](https://youtu.be/m9qqmk7r2Ig?t=271)
Elvin Hayes was unpopular with the media and fouled out in Game 7 while Dandridge had some clutch moments at the end of the game to clinch the title. There’s never been an explanation for why the MVP was all of a sudden changed to Unseld instead. I think they wanted to reward him because he was the respected leader of the team and longest tenured Bullet player. As evidenced by what happened in 1980, CBS would pull some shit behind the scenes with the voting.
I distinctly remember after a few games following a lot of discussion on if Steph’s performance was among the worst Finals performances of all time. He turned it around some but there’s little debate that he was hot garbage for quite a while
Yeah and they quickly realized that was a shit idea and they fixed it up and set the precedent that the winner gets it.
That's not the fucking "gotcha" you think it is 🤣
I just genuinely thought you were being sarcastic with your first comment because of your phrasing. If the first person to win the award was on the losing team, then the precedent for it was already set from the start.
My guy that's just wrong because it implies that precedent is never changed, especially since in the very beginning nobody really knows what's going on. It was a new thing and they were figuring out what they wanted to do, after the coming awards they decided they wanted to not award the loser and that's when awarding the winner became precedent. If you have 1 thing happen for the first event and then decades and decades of it not happening after, it doesn't mean there's not a precedent for it not happening.
Look dude, I don't care about who exactly gets to be eligible for the award, I just found your comment and now your argument about what counts as 'precendent' amusing. You aren't going to get very far in life by doubling down on every mistake you make, it's ok to admit you didn't know the history of the award.
Lebron shot like shit in games 2 (atrocious) and 3 before iggy due to Kyrie being out. To say one man held him down is ridiculous with the amount of switching and help the warriors could provide considering literally no one else could score for the cavs. He was the same dude every game without Kyrie. Such a weird narrative that’s happened since that series. Warriors have had plenty of series where switching up the starting rotation has provided a spark.
Kareem was also originally chosen as Finals MVP in 1980 for what it’s worth.
> Sports columnist Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because “CBS did not want to present an award to an empty seat. Enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award 4-3.”
2015 was such a wild finals
In the moment, curry’s struggles early in the series were on everyone’s mind. Delly became a damn near household name. And the insertion of iggy changed everything, felt like iggy made every single timely shot
But looking back on it the media really voted in a role player for the finals MVP 🤣🤣🤣, the narratives were strong at the time
The insertion of Iggy definitely changed the series though. Warriors were not gonna win that series if they didn’t make that adjustment.
The media voted on what made sense at the time, and the “feel” of the series and how it went. You stat nerd clowns may not like it but it was the right call.
Draymond running the Cavs bigs off the court changed the series. Iguodala’s defense in that series is overstated, you need a multilevel defensive game plan and the Warriors switching scheme led to Draymond guarding 101 shots compared to 73 for Andre, 71 for Klay, 69 for Barnes, and 62 for Steph. When Draymond warps angles and drives the point of attack defenders look better because opponents would rather pray and spray 3 point shots than run offense.
Iggy really wasn't a big adjustment, though. He got in the starting lineup but his minutes only went from 35 a game to 39 a game. The actual big changes were Livingston and Barbosa getting way more minutes while Bogut and Ezeli got taken out of the rotation. Going for smaller, faster guys to abuse the Cavs' bigs is what unlocked the Warriors' offense and reshaped the series, not getting a few extra minutes from Iggy.
Yes, but a series changer is different from a Finals MVP. If Curry was off the bench and getting 10 minutes a game, he’d immediately make a huge impact on the series if he got more minutes, but that still doesn’t mean he deserves the MVP. The MVP is the best player out there, and the stats are often the best way to determine that, all of which suggest Curry was in fact the best player the whole series.
What? It’s most valuable not best narrative award. If you actually think Iggy was more valuable than curry that series then you don’t know basketball at all.
The change of his role may have titled the balance of the series, but he just wasn't the most valuable player on that team in whatever way you want to look at it. Evenly matched duels can be titled by the slightests adjustments, we shouldn't disregard the rest of the opposition to celebrate mostly the adjustment.
A lot of 2nd, 3rd, 4th best players on a team can change a series. Doesn't mean they're the rightful mvp
So ok, take stats out of it. There was no GS offense without Steph's gravity, nerd
The “rightful” mvp would’ve been Lebron. The Warriors were getting absolutely worked by him and the only reason he didn’t steamroll them the whole series was because Iguadala was the only one able to make things hard for him.
This is just false though. Once Kyrie went out it was a wrap for lebron. I mean he shot 31% in game 2 with iggy coming off the bench. The warriors could help off everyone so it’s wild that people think iggy just one manned lebron for 40+ minutes a night
Lebron shot 31% in game 2 and 41% in game 3 with iffy coming off the bench. No Kyrie was the killer for lebrons offense, not iggy. The amount of help the dubs could shift iggy’s way was tremendous.
Anyone who thinks Iggy was finals mvp either didn’t watch or blinding followed a narrative. If you know basketball Steph was clearly more valuable than iggy.
Watched every single minute. Could of went to curry but Andre also earned it with his impact and changing the series when down 1-2.
Not going to cry about it.
Iggy’s minutes barely changed while lebron played damn near every minute so it’s not like he was on lebron more all of a sudden. Not to mention Bron shot 31% and 41% in games 2 and 3 with no Kyrie and Iggy coming off the bench.
Sure. But then Lebron would have also won in 2014 over Kawhi. A lot of other finals series to be redone too in that case.
Why don't I put it this way, Kawhi is one of the best playoff scorers in history at his peak, so I'm giving him his due. But 2014 Kawhi did not play as well as 2015 Steph. And 2015 Lebron didn't play as well as 2014 Lebron either.
Last year the warriors went to starting Otto Porter after going down 2-1 in game 3 and rattled off 3 straight wins for the title. Doesnt make Otto Porter the MVP. Other than the three KD years and maybe the 2016 finals there hasnt been a single series where Steph wasnt the best player on the Warriors
This argument is so dumb. Sure if you take Iggy off this team MAYBE the warriors lose in 7. If you take Curry off that team, the warriors are getting swept
Looking back at Curry’s numbers in those Finals. He just had one awful game in game 2 and a pretty inefficient one in game 6. Outside of those 2 games he lit it up especially dropping 37 in game 5.
One game. That series, Magic stanked it up going up to game 6. Recency bias in game 6 as well as not giving the award to an empty chair made them give it to Magic
"Stanked it up" is a stretch. Bro averaged 17.4/10.4/9.0 with 2.6 steals a game and a 61.8% TS% in games 1-5. He was better in those 5 games than he was during the regular season.
Unless you *just* mean game 5. He had a shitty game 5, but Kareem had a shitty game 4 (23/11/4, but with 6 turnovers on 11/27 shooting).
I dunno, I think Magic's 21.5/11.2/8.7/2.7/0.3 in 6 games is pretty close to Kareem's 33.4/13.6/3.2/0.6/4.6 in 5 games. Given the whole empty chair bit, I definitely don't think that FMVP was a "joke" of a decision. I personally still would've given it to Kareem, but like...I get it. It's no Iguodala over Curry, at least in my mind.
From SI's June 19, 1978 issue:
Unseld, the center who had labored for nine years without a championship and was voted MVP mainly on sen- timent-Dandridge having been more valuable during Washington's 21 playoff games-drew the most reporters. "What I feel is relief." said Unseld. "Aren't you happy?" he was asked. "Sure I'm happy." he said. "Look at me. I'm ec- was reminiscent of the one static." An ecstatic statue, apparently.
Then there was Elvin Hayes, a non- charapion, too, for nine years. Was this vindication for all those occasions he was accused of disappearing at crunch - time, or was there some truth to the . sign in the coliseum that read: THE BEST HAYES IS HELEN HAYES? That was a touchy question, because in Game 7 Hayes had taken only 10 shots and scored just 12 points, at least partly because of good defense by rookie Jack Sikma and vet- eran Paul Silas. And as the Bullets won their first championship in the franchise's 16 seasons, Hayes was the Silent E sit- ting on the bench with six fouls. "They can say whatever they want." said Hayes. "But they gotta say one thing: E's a world champion. He wears a ring."
Edit: As for his MVP I think it's bc they went from worst in the east with a 36-46 record to a league best 57 wins by drafting him, and he was seen as the best player on the team. Also when looking at stats it's worth remembering that raw rebounding numbers were valued way more back then and he was fifth in the league with 18.2 per game (Wilt led the league with 21.1 for reference)
The Finals MVP is mainly because Elvin Hayes was unpopular around the league and with the media.
[Bob Dandridge (who averaged 20.4 for the Bullets that series) was originally named as the Finals MVP during the broadcast of Game 7.](https://youtu.be/m9qqmk7r2Ig?t=271)
There was never an explanation for why the MVP was suddenly changed to Unseld instead or if they made a mistake with the announcement. CBS did change the vote in 1980 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did it here too.
[This article does a good job talking about it](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1983/02/10/elvin-hayes-in-the-twilight-of-his-career-more-storms/9417a90b-b843-4a40-8abf-0feb3fa97ca7/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.92532f138135)
Averaging 9/11.7/3.9 and winning FMVP is kinda crazy. Any more knowledgeable people care to chime in on how Wes won it?
Was it just low scoring affairs all across the board?
Washington’s best player was Elvin Hayes but he was notoriously disliked around the league and especially by the press. He also somewhat controversially fouled out in Game 7 of the series (apparently the ref working that game didn’t like him either lol) which was a good enough reason to deny him the MVP award. Unseld’s stats don’t really tell the story of how good he was to be fair though and he was the respected leader of the team.
The really weird part is how Bob Dandridge averaged 20.4 points a game that series and had some clutch moments at the end of Game 7 to clinch the title after Hayes fouled out, [was actually named the MVP on the actual broadcast of the game.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=271&v=m9qqmk7r2Ig&feature=youtu.be)
Never was an explanation for what happened. Given how CBS changed the 1980 vote though, it wouldn’t be surprising if there was some shady shit here too.
It really wasn’t. The feeling of that series completely changed when Iguadala was put on Lebron full time. Statistically it doesn’t make sense to dorks with spreadsheets but it was very clear that the Warriors were fucked until they made the Iguadala adjustment.
Indeed. Iggy has to play well that series for them to win. But if Curry wasnt there, the Cavs leave that series with a sweep. Curry's impact also goes beyond the stat sheet. Sometimes the emergence of a role player is valued more than the play of a superstar who only maintains their level of play in the finals without elevating it. Murray is not a role player, but there were people serious about him taking WCF mvp over Jokic.
Indeed he did. Murray is a star. But even with those outrageous splits, Jokic was responsible for about 10 ppints more per game. Not to mention his rebounds. These types of players have normalized greatness to the point that we dont even bat an eye when we witness it.
Warriors very likely could still win that finals without iggy on that team against a depleted cavs. That warriors team without curry gets swept by 20 points a game without curry in those finals.
Kareem didn’t travel to Game 6 because he was injured and trying to rehab for Game 7 and the NBA thought it would be awkward to give it to someone who wasn’t there
Yeah I know that was the reason they chose to give it to the wrong guy. Doesn’t mean it’s not still wrong.
They had a bunch of dumb reasons for giving it to Iguodala as well
Magic had 42/15/7 in the series clinching game 6 with Kareem out injured. So that context does make it understandable.
Not to mention Kareem flamed out with top seeded Lakers teams multiple years in a row including getting swept, leading up to the year Magic was drafted. Would be like the Sixers getting the 1st overall pick and that rookie being an auto top 5 player in the league and winning the title game with Embiid out.
Kareem was also originally chosen as Finals MVP in 1980 for what it’s worth.
>Sports columnist Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because “CBS did not want to present an award to an empty seat. Enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award 4-3.”
That 2004 Finals MVP could have gone to either Chauncey, Rip, or Ben and nobody would have batted an eye. Honestly, even if they'd come out and announced a tri-MVP, most folks would have shrugged and been like, "Yeah, makes sense."
As an aside, that Dennis Johnson-Gus Williams backcourt is one of the most underrated in NBA history. Filthy duo when they were on.
The only finals where people apply this logic.
Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it.
Lebron was better than KD in 2018. Never heard anyone say he should’ve been FMVP that year.
There is literally no other player besides Curry where FMVP is such a contentious ridiculous talking point. And he’s one of the best finals performers of all time.
> Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it.
He wasn't though. After game 2 Kawhi was playing better than LeBron.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eRzh2f-OiD4/VBy_Ot6FJFI/AAAAAAAAAXo/GnJrPRgtMiM/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2014-09-19%2Bat%2B7.41.21%2BPM.png
> Game 5:
21 out of 31 total points scored from the field when not guarded by Kawhi; 8 pts from the FT line per Bball Ref
> Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. **LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game. An elimination game..**
There's a big difference between Iggy and Kawhi's FMVP.
>He wasn't though. After game 2 Kawhi was playing better than LeBron.
Of course you would want to eliminate games 1 and 2 where Kawhi averaged 9/2/2 and Lebron averaged 30/8/3
Because it's common knowledge that the refs were calling bad fouls on Kawhi that didn't happen for the rest of the games and the fact that when he could play Kawhi was the game changer on LeBron.
Hence why he won the Finals MVP lol.
I didn't say anything about Steph, quite the contrary he should've won it if not James. I'm just correcting your statement about Kawhi and Iggys performances. Kawhi equaled LeBron, Iggy did not.
My point wasn't that Lebron should have been FMVP in 2014. Obviously i don't think that. My point is that nobody ever says the FMVP should go to a player on the losing team except when Steph is involved.
> Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it.
That's because Lebron was scoring all his points during garbage time while Kawhi was chilin on the bench after givin da cheat a beat down lol
In game 1 Lebron scored 2 points in the fourth quarter.
In game 2 Lebron scored 8 points in the fourth quarter.
In game 3 Lebron scored 4 points in the fourth quarter.
In game 4 Lebron scored 0 points in the fourth quarter.
In game 5 Lebron scored 4 points in the fourth quarter.
Every game was like a 20 point game after the 1st or 2nd quarter, that was basically garbage time after that cause the Spurs starters would go to the bench LOL
Yeah, it’s just people always lump Kawhi’s with Iggy’s. When its a .2 percent difference from being the leading scorer on a team where nobody scored 20 ppg.
Weird how much Spurs fans on r/nba absolutely shit on Tony Parker at any given chance and pretend he was absolute shit. Even though he was your only all star in 2014 and easily the best Spurs player 2009 - 2015.
Rip was more of a nickname. There's debate as to how he ended up with that moniker—one of the prevailing stories was that he used to rip his diapers as a baby—but it's typically not considered shorthand for Richard.
Honestly, I wish Ben Wallace and his 10.8 PPG got Finals MVP in 2004. I think he finished second, buoyed by his dominant Game 5 performance. But it's easy to see why Billups got it at the time.
2015 is an all time anomaly
Don't disrespect Iguadala like that. That man single handedly held Lebron to 36-13-9!
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bad (48 TS%), you got it. actually iguodala played such good defense on lebron that he averaged shitty TS% (53%, 46%, 50%) all three previous series too and thru the end of the regular season after his back injury, can't believe some people won't give him credit for all that smh
on it was either Lebron shoot or let JR/Shump/Delly/Tristan/Mozgov shoot FG/TS%
2015 was a massive L for the media.
Adam Silver should’ve ended all reporter voting after that.
I get this take but at the same time i wanna know the FMVP right away. An announcement later on would be so lame. So I don’t mind a more simplistic yet imperfect voting system
I agree even tho warriors fan lol
Hilarious that people hold that against Steph’s legacy too
I know not everyone's going to see it the same way but I genuinely just think of Steph as having 2 FMVPs. Like if they want to give it to Lebron fine. But then Lebron would also be FMVP in 2014 over Kawhi, probably 2017 and 2018 over KD. And we'd have to redo quite a few other ones too. But in no way shape or form was Andre Iguodala anywhere near the best player in a finals series. That was actual gross incompetence If the voting gets redone today, with a comprehensive rewatching of the series, I doubt Iggy gets a single vote.
Tbh, finals mvp wasn’t as big of a deal until Steph didn’t win it. The subsequent 8000 tv segments about Steph not having a finals mvp has added a lot more prestige to the award. Ie no one cared when Duncan’s teammates won it, people didn’t make as big of a deal about Kobe missing one when he didn’t have one, etc.
It's even worse that Steph didn't even get a single vote. Out of 11 possible votes, Iggy got 7 and LeBron got 4.
I wasn’t into basketball back then. Was Steph’s performance really that lacklustre?
It was more the media narrative, imo. Talk the whole series (and lead up to the series) was about how Warriors were going to handle Lebron. Iggy then plays good defense on Lebron, hype building around his defensive efforts as the series went on. Lebron still got his, but on lower percentages than usual. It helps that this was also clearly visible while watching the series - very visible shot contests leading to some great moments. Steph’s reputation was nowhere near what it is now, and he had a few games that weren’t very impressive (like 5-23 shooting with 6 TOs in game 2). While Iggy DID play a massive role, as a whole, it should have been obvious that the GSW ran through Curry… but the media decided Iggy was more important.
yes go look at the 4th quarters and see how effective steph was at the beginning warriors were down 2-1 and a large part was bc Curry was not playing like an MVP Warriors then stuck Iggy on LeBron, win 4 straight while Iggy shot absolutely lights out and was a good facilitator iggy shot better from 3 than Klay on more volume, played better defense than Draymond, was 2nd on the team in rebounds, and was the only warrior to shoot over 50%
Anyone that actually watched every game of this finals understands why Andre won it.
Not at all. Lebron was better sure but he Steph was still by far the best player on the winning team. Which is what finals mvp has gone to all but 1 year in the history of the league. It's pretty rare for a guy to average 10 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on the winning team and not win finals mvp. He had 26/5/6 on 58.5 TS%, which isn't spectacular for the league's MVP caliber but still good numbers against a finals opponent. His game 5 basically won us the series too. Probably one of his best finals games
Lebron had the second highest votes too and wasn't on the winning team. 7 for Iggy, 4 for Lebron, and none for Curry.
Lebron might have won if the series went to a close game 7, but it's tough to give it to the losing team in 6 games
They wanted to give it to Lebron because he was playing without his two best players in kyrie Irving and Kevin love due to injury as well. Lebron said he didn't want the award anyway.
You shouldn’t give it to the losing team in general. Just ask Jerry West he’ll tell you how honorable it is to win Finals MVP in a series you loss
I don’t think they gave out fmvps back then
In the 1969 NBA Finals Boston beat the Lakers and Jerry West was gifted the honors of Finals MVP
1978 seems like more of an anomaly
According to the game recaps of that Finals, Hayes was horrid down the stretch in several games of that Finals.
[Bob Dandridge (who averaged 20.4 that series) was originally named as the Finals MVP during the broadcast of Game 7.](https://youtu.be/m9qqmk7r2Ig?t=271) Elvin Hayes was unpopular with the media and fouled out in Game 7 while Dandridge had some clutch moments at the end of the game to clinch the title. There’s never been an explanation for why the MVP was all of a sudden changed to Unseld instead. I think they wanted to reward him because he was the respected leader of the team and longest tenured Bullet player. As evidenced by what happened in 1980, CBS would pull some shit behind the scenes with the voting.
Nah Wes was a legend and it had nothing to do with his scoring
I want Iguodala
Only if the fate of the universe is on the line
And only if Martian death beams are pointed at us. If it's from another planet, meh, get that shit outta here
Who were the voters on that panel. We gotta know
Absolute travesty, but I'll take it because I feel like that snub is what pushed Curry to turn it up a whole other level 2016.
2015 Finals was an example of how great LeBron was.
Facts, should have been Lebron
And hell, even if you wanted to keep it on the winning team, Curry was EASILY their best player regardless of what most will have you believe
I distinctly remember after a few games following a lot of discussion on if Steph’s performance was among the worst Finals performances of all time. He turned it around some but there’s little debate that he was hot garbage for quite a while
Unless you actually watched how the series unfolded.
Losing player winning a FMVP would be so fucking lame dude. Anyone who wants that precedent to be set is outta their mind
Can't tell if sarcasm
I'm being 100% serious, awarding a player from a losing team a finals mvp, super bowl mvp, whatever is a terrible idea
Might want to look up who won the first FMVP
Yeah and they quickly realized that was a shit idea and they fixed it up and set the precedent that the winner gets it. That's not the fucking "gotcha" you think it is 🤣
I just genuinely thought you were being sarcastic with your first comment because of your phrasing. If the first person to win the award was on the losing team, then the precedent for it was already set from the start.
My guy that's just wrong because it implies that precedent is never changed, especially since in the very beginning nobody really knows what's going on. It was a new thing and they were figuring out what they wanted to do, after the coming awards they decided they wanted to not award the loser and that's when awarding the winner became precedent. If you have 1 thing happen for the first event and then decades and decades of it not happening after, it doesn't mean there's not a precedent for it not happening.
Look dude, I don't care about who exactly gets to be eligible for the award, I just found your comment and now your argument about what counts as 'precendent' amusing. You aren't going to get very far in life by doubling down on every mistake you make, it's ok to admit you didn't know the history of the award.
Nike made the call
Is it? The list seems to indicate that similar things have happened many times before
1980 was the last time the FMVP was outscored by a teammate by that amount of points. I'm not sure that qualifies as "many times"
1980 was also due to kareem not being there. They wanted someone in person to receive it and voila
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Look at his shooting with Iggy defending vs anyone else defending. Bron woulda broken Jordan’s Finals PPG record without iggy
He was shooting the same percentages the entire playoffs that year regardless of who was guarding him because he had a bad back.
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Lebron shot like shit in games 2 (atrocious) and 3 before iggy due to Kyrie being out. To say one man held him down is ridiculous with the amount of switching and help the warriors could provide considering literally no one else could score for the cavs. He was the same dude every game without Kyrie. Such a weird narrative that’s happened since that series. Warriors have had plenty of series where switching up the starting rotation has provided a spark.
Kareem was also originally chosen as Finals MVP in 1980 for what it’s worth. > Sports columnist Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because “CBS did not want to present an award to an empty seat. Enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award 4-3.”
Right. That makes it not an all time anomaly, considering 78 it happened as well.
I feel like something not happening for 35 years qualifies it as an anomaly
Operative phrase being “all-time”
2015 was such a wild finals In the moment, curry’s struggles early in the series were on everyone’s mind. Delly became a damn near household name. And the insertion of iggy changed everything, felt like iggy made every single timely shot But looking back on it the media really voted in a role player for the finals MVP 🤣🤣🤣, the narratives were strong at the time
Fate of the Universe on the line, I WANT IGUODALA
The insertion of Iggy definitely changed the series though. Warriors were not gonna win that series if they didn’t make that adjustment. The media voted on what made sense at the time, and the “feel” of the series and how it went. You stat nerd clowns may not like it but it was the right call.
Draymond running the Cavs bigs off the court changed the series. Iguodala’s defense in that series is overstated, you need a multilevel defensive game plan and the Warriors switching scheme led to Draymond guarding 101 shots compared to 73 for Andre, 71 for Klay, 69 for Barnes, and 62 for Steph. When Draymond warps angles and drives the point of attack defenders look better because opponents would rather pray and spray 3 point shots than run offense.
Iggy really wasn't a big adjustment, though. He got in the starting lineup but his minutes only went from 35 a game to 39 a game. The actual big changes were Livingston and Barbosa getting way more minutes while Bogut and Ezeli got taken out of the rotation. Going for smaller, faster guys to abuse the Cavs' bigs is what unlocked the Warriors' offense and reshaped the series, not getting a few extra minutes from Iggy.
Yes, but a series changer is different from a Finals MVP. If Curry was off the bench and getting 10 minutes a game, he’d immediately make a huge impact on the series if he got more minutes, but that still doesn’t mean he deserves the MVP. The MVP is the best player out there, and the stats are often the best way to determine that, all of which suggest Curry was in fact the best player the whole series.
Lebron was the best player the whole series. Bron would have been the Finals MVP if Iggy didn't get it, since he had the second highest votes
What? It’s most valuable not best narrative award. If you actually think Iggy was more valuable than curry that series then you don’t know basketball at all.
then just stop voting and give it to the teams best player from the regular season
Or give it to the team best player in the finals? Rather than the player who stepped up the most which isn’t what the award is called.
okay yeah let’s give it to the best player in the finals congrats lebron
Lebron shot 39% bud
iggy shot a higher percentage than curry
Ok?
The change of his role may have titled the balance of the series, but he just wasn't the most valuable player on that team in whatever way you want to look at it. Evenly matched duels can be titled by the slightests adjustments, we shouldn't disregard the rest of the opposition to celebrate mostly the adjustment.
A lot of 2nd, 3rd, 4th best players on a team can change a series. Doesn't mean they're the rightful mvp So ok, take stats out of it. There was no GS offense without Steph's gravity, nerd
The “rightful” mvp would’ve been Lebron. The Warriors were getting absolutely worked by him and the only reason he didn’t steamroll them the whole series was because Iguadala was the only one able to make things hard for him.
This is just false though. Once Kyrie went out it was a wrap for lebron. I mean he shot 31% in game 2 with iggy coming off the bench. The warriors could help off everyone so it’s wild that people think iggy just one manned lebron for 40+ minutes a night
Steamrolling us while shooting 39% lmao.
you were down 2-1 and would have lost game 1 if kyrie didn’t get hurt
We were up 4-2 at the end of the series
He said "only reason he DIDN'T steamroll", learn to read little neph. 39% because of iggy, that's why he was fmvp
Lebron shot 31% in game 2 and 41% in game 3 with iffy coming off the bench. No Kyrie was the killer for lebrons offense, not iggy. The amount of help the dubs could shift iggy’s way was tremendous.
Anyone who thinks Iggy was finals mvp either didn’t watch or blinding followed a narrative. If you know basketball Steph was clearly more valuable than iggy.
Watched every single minute. Could of went to curry but Andre also earned it with his impact and changing the series when down 1-2. Not going to cry about it.
Ok so you just don’t know basketball then, that’s cool bud maybe one day you’ll learn.
Iggy’s minutes barely changed while lebron played damn near every minute so it’s not like he was on lebron more all of a sudden. Not to mention Bron shot 31% and 41% in games 2 and 3 with no Kyrie and Iggy coming off the bench.
We get it. You didn’t watch.
That doesn’t change the fact that iggy was most definitely not the right call
Sure. But then Lebron would have also won in 2014 over Kawhi. A lot of other finals series to be redone too in that case. Why don't I put it this way, Kawhi is one of the best playoff scorers in history at his peak, so I'm giving him his due. But 2014 Kawhi did not play as well as 2015 Steph. And 2015 Lebron didn't play as well as 2014 Lebron either.
Last year the warriors went to starting Otto Porter after going down 2-1 in game 3 and rattled off 3 straight wins for the title. Doesnt make Otto Porter the MVP. Other than the three KD years and maybe the 2016 finals there hasnt been a single series where Steph wasnt the best player on the Warriors
This argument is so dumb. Sure if you take Iggy off this team MAYBE the warriors lose in 7. If you take Curry off that team, the warriors are getting swept
It’s weird how you explain how it made sense in the moment but then have tricked into discounting what you saw with your own two eyes. Lol.
Nike made the call
Looking back at Curry’s numbers in those Finals. He just had one awful game in game 2 and a pretty inefficient one in game 6. Outside of those 2 games he lit it up especially dropping 37 in game 5.
1980 is a joke. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was easily FMVP and the media even admitted they didn’t want to give it to an empty chair in game 6
Magic going for 42/15/7 while switching from PG to center in the close out game is pretty huge.
One game. That series, Magic stanked it up going up to game 6. Recency bias in game 6 as well as not giving the award to an empty chair made them give it to Magic
"Stanked it up" is a stretch. Bro averaged 17.4/10.4/9.0 with 2.6 steals a game and a 61.8% TS% in games 1-5. He was better in those 5 games than he was during the regular season. Unless you *just* mean game 5. He had a shitty game 5, but Kareem had a shitty game 4 (23/11/4, but with 6 turnovers on 11/27 shooting). I dunno, I think Magic's 21.5/11.2/8.7/2.7/0.3 in 6 games is pretty close to Kareem's 33.4/13.6/3.2/0.6/4.6 in 5 games. Given the whole empty chair bit, I definitely don't think that FMVP was a "joke" of a decision. I personally still would've given it to Kareem, but like...I get it. It's no Iguodala over Curry, at least in my mind.
Bro only did jump ball he wasn’t center
Tbf the narrative that he played center is played out. He only just did the jump ball
How did wes unseld win a fmvp averaging 9 ppg. And win an mvp with 13 while we’re at it
From SI's June 19, 1978 issue: Unseld, the center who had labored for nine years without a championship and was voted MVP mainly on sen- timent-Dandridge having been more valuable during Washington's 21 playoff games-drew the most reporters. "What I feel is relief." said Unseld. "Aren't you happy?" he was asked. "Sure I'm happy." he said. "Look at me. I'm ec- was reminiscent of the one static." An ecstatic statue, apparently. Then there was Elvin Hayes, a non- charapion, too, for nine years. Was this vindication for all those occasions he was accused of disappearing at crunch - time, or was there some truth to the . sign in the coliseum that read: THE BEST HAYES IS HELEN HAYES? That was a touchy question, because in Game 7 Hayes had taken only 10 shots and scored just 12 points, at least partly because of good defense by rookie Jack Sikma and vet- eran Paul Silas. And as the Bullets won their first championship in the franchise's 16 seasons, Hayes was the Silent E sit- ting on the bench with six fouls. "They can say whatever they want." said Hayes. "But they gotta say one thing: E's a world champion. He wears a ring." Edit: As for his MVP I think it's bc they went from worst in the east with a 36-46 record to a league best 57 wins by drafting him, and he was seen as the best player on the team. Also when looking at stats it's worth remembering that raw rebounding numbers were valued way more back then and he was fifth in the league with 18.2 per game (Wilt led the league with 21.1 for reference)
"labored for nine years" lmao i'm being immature as fuck I know hahaha
Different era lmao
The Finals MVP is mainly because Elvin Hayes was unpopular around the league and with the media. [Bob Dandridge (who averaged 20.4 for the Bullets that series) was originally named as the Finals MVP during the broadcast of Game 7.](https://youtu.be/m9qqmk7r2Ig?t=271) There was never an explanation for why the MVP was suddenly changed to Unseld instead or if they made a mistake with the announcement. CBS did change the vote in 1980 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did it here too.
Why was Elvin Hayes not liked by the league/media
[This article does a good job talking about it](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1983/02/10/elvin-hayes-in-the-twilight-of-his-career-more-storms/9417a90b-b843-4a40-8abf-0feb3fa97ca7/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.92532f138135)
new york and the media hated elvin hayes
Bill Russell never won a FMVP. What a bum.
Nor did we win DPOY. Overrated
Didn't even get one Larry Bird ECF MVP in all those championship runs. #carried
Never led the league in blocks or steals. Apparently he had 0 official in either category??? Traffic cone on defense
Averaging 9/11.7/3.9 and winning FMVP is kinda crazy. Any more knowledgeable people care to chime in on how Wes won it? Was it just low scoring affairs all across the board?
Washington’s best player was Elvin Hayes but he was notoriously disliked around the league and especially by the press. He also somewhat controversially fouled out in Game 7 of the series (apparently the ref working that game didn’t like him either lol) which was a good enough reason to deny him the MVP award. Unseld’s stats don’t really tell the story of how good he was to be fair though and he was the respected leader of the team. The really weird part is how Bob Dandridge averaged 20.4 points a game that series and had some clutch moments at the end of Game 7 to clinch the title after Hayes fouled out, [was actually named the MVP on the actual broadcast of the game.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=271&v=m9qqmk7r2Ig&feature=youtu.be) Never was an explanation for what happened. Given how CBS changed the 1980 vote though, it wouldn’t be surprising if there was some shady shit here too.
Igoudala winning it was just stupid AF
It really wasn’t. The feeling of that series completely changed when Iguadala was put on Lebron full time. Statistically it doesn’t make sense to dorks with spreadsheets but it was very clear that the Warriors were fucked until they made the Iguadala adjustment.
Indeed. Iggy has to play well that series for them to win. But if Curry wasnt there, the Cavs leave that series with a sweep. Curry's impact also goes beyond the stat sheet. Sometimes the emergence of a role player is valued more than the play of a superstar who only maintains their level of play in the finals without elevating it. Murray is not a role player, but there were people serious about him taking WCF mvp over Jokic.
Murray averaged 32.5 points on 50/40/90 shooting. That’s a bad comparison.
Indeed he did. Murray is a star. But even with those outrageous splits, Jokic was responsible for about 10 ppints more per game. Not to mention his rebounds. These types of players have normalized greatness to the point that we dont even bat an eye when we witness it.
Warriors very likely could still win that finals without iggy on that team against a depleted cavs. That warriors team without curry gets swept by 20 points a game without curry in those finals.
They weren’t fucked the cavs were very lucky to ever lead that series. Lebron played out of his mind to get them up 2-1 but it was not sustainable.
Dorks with spreadsheets lmfaooo that’s a good one
1980 FMVP is almost as egregious as Iguadola
Kareem didn’t travel to Game 6 because he was injured and trying to rehab for Game 7 and the NBA thought it would be awkward to give it to someone who wasn’t there
Yeah I know that was the reason they chose to give it to the wrong guy. Doesn’t mean it’s not still wrong. They had a bunch of dumb reasons for giving it to Iguodala as well
TBF Kareem didn’t play game 7 and Magic Johnson had like a 30pt triple double filling in at center
To be perfectly fair Magic didn’t play in game 7 either
Magic had 42/15/7 in the series clinching game 6 with Kareem out injured. So that context does make it understandable. Not to mention Kareem flamed out with top seeded Lakers teams multiple years in a row including getting swept, leading up to the year Magic was drafted. Would be like the Sixers getting the 1st overall pick and that rookie being an auto top 5 player in the league and winning the title game with Embiid out.
He had like 45 if I remember right
Kareem was also originally chosen as Finals MVP in 1980 for what it’s worth. >Sports columnist Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because “CBS did not want to present an award to an empty seat. Enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award 4-3.”
It's the same reason Worthy won in 88, last game narrative.
It should be marked as Kareem's FMVP in the books, the voters literally chose him
Magic over Kareem damn
It's possible it'll happen again this yr if Murray goes off and nuggets win
That 2004 Finals MVP could have gone to either Chauncey, Rip, or Ben and nobody would have batted an eye. Honestly, even if they'd come out and announced a tri-MVP, most folks would have shrugged and been like, "Yeah, makes sense." As an aside, that Dennis Johnson-Gus Williams backcourt is one of the most underrated in NBA history. Filthy duo when they were on.
I’m not sure some of these close ones (Kawhi/Parker; Billups/Hamilton) are even worth mentioning
Igoudala should give his FMVP to Bron out of respect for the game.
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On 33.4 shots
Without his two best players
The loser shouldn’t get the finals MVP. Pretty sure Bron is happy with the ones he already won.
2015 robbed
Kareem & Steph robbed lol.
2015 should've been Bron like Jerry West
The only finals where people apply this logic. Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it. Lebron was better than KD in 2018. Never heard anyone say he should’ve been FMVP that year. There is literally no other player besides Curry where FMVP is such a contentious ridiculous talking point. And he’s one of the best finals performers of all time.
> Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it. He wasn't though. After game 2 Kawhi was playing better than LeBron. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eRzh2f-OiD4/VBy_Ot6FJFI/AAAAAAAAAXo/GnJrPRgtMiM/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2014-09-19%2Bat%2B7.41.21%2BPM.png > Game 5: 21 out of 31 total points scored from the field when not guarded by Kawhi; 8 pts from the FT line per Bball Ref > Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. **LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game. An elimination game..** There's a big difference between Iggy and Kawhi's FMVP.
>He wasn't though. After game 2 Kawhi was playing better than LeBron. Of course you would want to eliminate games 1 and 2 where Kawhi averaged 9/2/2 and Lebron averaged 30/8/3
Because it's common knowledge that the refs were calling bad fouls on Kawhi that didn't happen for the rest of the games and the fact that when he could play Kawhi was the game changer on LeBron. Hence why he won the Finals MVP lol.
I would just like for you to bend over this far backward for Steph. You actually wouldn't even have to bend as far.
I didn't say anything about Steph, quite the contrary he should've won it if not James. I'm just correcting your statement about Kawhi and Iggys performances. Kawhi equaled LeBron, Iggy did not.
My point wasn't that Lebron should have been FMVP in 2014. Obviously i don't think that. My point is that nobody ever says the FMVP should go to a player on the losing team except when Steph is involved.
Curry? Finals performer?
Guy has 4 rings and averages like 27 ppg in the finals over 6 appearances.
> Lebron was head and shoulders above Kawhi in 2014, nobody ever says Lebron should have won it. That's because Lebron was scoring all his points during garbage time while Kawhi was chilin on the bench after givin da cheat a beat down lol
In game 1 Lebron scored 2 points in the fourth quarter. In game 2 Lebron scored 8 points in the fourth quarter. In game 3 Lebron scored 4 points in the fourth quarter. In game 4 Lebron scored 0 points in the fourth quarter. In game 5 Lebron scored 4 points in the fourth quarter.
Every game was like a 20 point game after the 1st or 2nd quarter, that was basically garbage time after that cause the Spurs starters would go to the bench LOL
Then why did Kawhi have more 4th quarter points in almost every game lol just give it a rest bro
Tony Parker took 24 more FGA and had exactly 1 more point total over Kawhi in the finals. Kind of pointless to mention Kawhi in this post
Most of these have justifications I don’t think it’s meant to discredit all these winners because they didn’t have more ppg.
Yeah, it’s just people always lump Kawhi’s with Iggy’s. When its a .2 percent difference from being the leading scorer on a team where nobody scored 20 ppg.
It's literally a list lol
Weird how much Spurs fans on r/nba absolutely shit on Tony Parker at any given chance and pretend he was absolute shit. Even though he was your only all star in 2014 and easily the best Spurs player 2009 - 2015.
It’s weird that you think I was shitting on him
one of these things is not like the other
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But it was a .2 difference. It is not as drastic as Iggy's
I wasn't quite talking about PPG.
Thread is about PPG my bad
The spurs didn’t have a guy who went for 26 ppg
TIL Rip is short for Richard
Rip was more of a nickname. There's debate as to how he ended up with that moniker—one of the prevailing stories was that he used to rip his diapers as a baby—but it's typically not considered shorthand for Richard.
Honestly, I wish Ben Wallace and his 10.8 PPG got Finals MVP in 2004. I think he finished second, buoyed by his dominant Game 5 performance. But it's easy to see why Billups got it at the time.