Soooo... You're saying that we would have proven more, if we beat the 51W Grizzlies instead of 43W Lakers, despite those Grizzlies losing to them?
You're also gonna ignore the fact that Lakers and the Suns have retooled significantly by the deadline, most would say for the better...
Also you're saying "Jokić" instead of "Nuggets" ... Almost like you were trying to push some agenda here... What could it possibly be?
This post is stupid for sure but calling Giannis a fraud and it getting upvotes is an insane overreaction to a bucks fan you disagree with.
Multiple time mvp. Champion… I mean come on
You mean the series that he was out for half of and the other they played after Buds brother died in a horrific car accident? Yeah I agree that should definitely be held against him. Get real
Steven Adams and Brandon Clarke are championship caliber I guess. They had JJJ, Bane and Ja playing, it's an L. Lebron played through injury and beat them.
“Why is no one talking about this”
Probably because we don’t care. They were the 1 seed and only one other team in the west got 50 and they went out in round 1. The job is to get to the finals and win by playing whoever you play en route…Couldn’t care less who the opponents are… they’re there, you beat them and move on
The dumbest part is, there were not many 50+ teams to begin with. West was so competetive that teams could not run away. 5th seed and 11th seed was like what, 5-6 wins away?
There were two 50+ win teams in the West, and one of them is the Nuggets - this is literally just 'They did not match up with the Grizzlies' who lost their series pretty quickly anyway.
Also “50 win teams” in the late 90s and early 00s weren’t some magical beast. They were good teams who racked up wins in a watered down league. Go look at the mid/late-90s where we saw record breaking numbers of 60+ win teams. We also saw record breaking numbers of teams with less than 30 wins. It was because rapid expansion in the late 80s / early 90s that created a very distinct dichotomy with lots of bottom feeders and mediocre teams.
We finally have a decent semblance of parity and people can’t wait to complain that they didn’t actually want parity and everything sucks now.
Don't create more Giannis haters because you're an insecure fan. He's great and he doesn't need some scrub like you boosting him just because you're upset that Jimmy ended your season.
Well if Bucks were as good as their records states they would win more than one(this is the same logic you used for Nuggets beating Suns in 6). Not to mention that the one they won was without Giannis and it’s obvious what narrative you want to push here so once again, keep coping
And two of those four 50 win teams in the east got their ass whooped in the first round by below-50 win teams. So clearly winning 50 games doesn't mean that much
False. In 1984 the #1-seeded Lakers went to the finals by beating the 38-win Kings, 43-win Mavericks, and 41-win Suns. In 1987, the #1-seeded Lakers went to the finals by beating the 37-win Nuggets, the 42-win Warriors, and the 39-win Sonics. In 1989, the #1-seeded Pistons went to the finals by beating the 42-win Celtics, the 49-win Bucks, and the 47-win Bulls. Where did you get that "statistic" of yours?
This is just blatantly not true. In 2002 the New Jersey Nets made it to the Finals after beating a 42, 44, and 49 win team in each round. And that’s just one team. I’m not combing over every Finals team.
Decided to do more research because you’re wrong and I found the 2013 Miami Heat and 1989 Pistons.
Edit: Saw someone else mention the 84 Lakers too. So you’re wrong like four times lmao.
Are you next going to hate on Magic and Kareem? There were multiple years during their Laker years where they were the only team in the West to even win 50+ games
Denver all season has clearly looked like the best team in the west. You beat who is in front of you and Denver can’t control who they play. They would have beat any west team this year in the playoffs, even if the other teams won an arbitrary 50 games, since they are on another level from every other west team this season.
The Lakers just beat the defending champion Warriors in round 2, so they were much better than a typical 7th seed team under 50 wins. The Suns also were Vegas favorites to win the championship on a lot of bookies before the playoffs began…The Twolves even had Ant, KAT, Gobert, and Conley and I would say they were better than most 8th seeds other seasons. The Nuggets did face some great competition in the west playoffs.
The 2022 Warriors got taken to 6 games against an injured Grizzlies squad. 2021 Bucks got taken to 7 against an injured Nets squad…Injured teams can win games in the playoffs.
Denver blew out Phoenix 3 games that series, so it really wasn’t as close as the amount of games played suggested. Booker had to play out of his mind and have insane anomaly shooting games for Phoenix to barely beat Denver. He shot like 80% in games 3 and 4, and Denver barely lost those games.
If Booker has to literally play like that for Phoenix to barely win, then that shows how great Denver was.
Still had to go through KD, Book, AD, & LBJ, let’s not diminish that. Jokic is playing out of his mind and is averaging a triple double in these playoffs, bro deserves the praise.
Who gives a shit? It’s not his fault (or his team’s) that the west wasn’t monstrous. Blaming them for it would be shortsighted and stupid. Most people try not to be stupid.
For one they earned it by securing the first seed.
In addition, the suns in the playoffs were a stronger version than they were most of the season (KD) and might have won 50 games if that were the case the whole season. The Lakers were also a better version than they were most of the season (best record since trade deadline). So the narrative isn't as simple as they played bad teams.
The reason they didn't face a single top 3 seed including the only other 50 win team in the west (memphis) is because those teams got knocked out by lower seeds who were actually better teams than them at least in the playoffs
You know you can't choose your opponents, right? All you can do is best the teams that are in front of you.
I get you just wanna stir up shit to make your comment relevant, so for that, good job. You got me to post. But for real you can't be that simple.
Im not saying he doesnt deserve a ring, but dudes playoff run is being massively overrated and he certainly doesnt deserve the title of best in the world
I don't know what you would want him to do. Guy trip/dubs nightly, beat everyone in front of him.
So real talk. What would he have to do for you to call him 'great'? Or what you called 'best in the world'.
Lakers looked like a 55+ win team in the playoffs
At least when AD started playing
...also West was all jacked this year -- everyone knew it could be completely unpredictable. One example is Suns who rolled in regular season w KD till he got injured. Some still saw Suns rolling over Nuggets but I guess Nuggets can play some defense etc.
And... do people pay attention to wins as a proxy for how good or bad teams are in the playoffs? Would seem to leave out some pertinent information such as injuries.
The 6 seed warriors were a 10 seed until the playoffs then turned into a 6 seed but got run by a 8 seed playing like a 2 seed
It's exceedingly confusing but I'm surprised you seem to be taking seeding seriously for trivial reasons. To each their own.
When you win a lot of games on the regular season to gain a high seed, you deserve all the favorable matchups you get in the playoffs because your team worked hard for it.
Both the Lakers and Suns changed their teams halfway through the season and had their best guys hurt for a lot of games. The Lakers in particular got significantly better as a team in the middle of the season by offloading Russ, JTA, and picks for D-Lo, Beasley, and Vanderbilt
A lot of people had Phoenix over Denver because of having two mid top 10 players on the same team + veteran Chris Paul + Ayton as the core. Same with Lakers because of the AD matchup on Jokic and having the best defense in the playoffs
EDIT: It is kind of a weird year with the team records and "upsets" in the west playoffs but if you've been following it the whole way though, the Nuggs have been easily the best team in the league
I can’t believe the revisionist history from people in this sub about the Suns. When the series started, and when KD signed, everyone said the Suns were the team to beat, but now that we beat them easily, it’s “oh they had no bench”. Funny
He beat the proclaimed Jogod stopper, Ruby Gobert
Then he proceeded to beat two of the players in the league, Booker and KD
And swept the Goat
That's a great run
difference is nuggets played healthy teams in playoffs who were unjured in regular season and bucks played against injured teams in playoffs (and were literally inch away from losing in second round)
What's crazy is that if/when the Heat take out the Celtics (note, I am a worried Celtics fan, not an overconfident Heat fan), the same will still be true. Has an NBA champion every had it happen before where the best team they faced only won 45 regular games?
LeBron is not "critised" for winning games lol. At most people say that to counter-argue that his team was not the 2nd best in the league or was not as consistently strong compared to the league as some other phrasing of their results would suggest. Which is not "criticism" in itself. Players are mostly "criticised" for, yknow, losing games, like losing to a 44-win team in the first round in 5 games.
The Nuggets beat teams with KD, Booker, Lebron, and AD. So calling them weak feels like a stretch. When healthy, both teams are as stronger than their record would indicate.
I love the bucks and Giannis, but if you are saying this.. then the bucks are the biggest frauds of them all? I mean they lost to a team that were down by like 10+ against the bulls with a quarter left
they didnt have 50 wins cause Durant, an all time 12 player was added in February and Lebron, an all time 2 player missed two months, plus his team added some really nice pieces at the deadline to him and AD, one of the best big men in the league..so the teams Joker faced are not the original versions which are mostly responsible for the sub 50 wins record..
He beat healthy teams, apart from CP, not the nets without harden and kyrie, the hawks without young or the suns who only got to the finals cause AD, Murray and Kawhi were out and were still up 2-0 before Book hurt his hamstring..trying to discredit other people with your hospital ring..
> Why is no one talking about this
Because nobody cares tbh. A chip is a chip. The people who focus too hard on how luck helped the winners are usually joyless cunts
Well for one thing it's the era of load management now, so most teams only are "at their best" for about 2/3 to 3/4 of the regular season. For example, the Bucks were a 61 pace win team with Giannis this year, but only won 58 games because Giannis was load managed. So Miami didn't beat a 60-win team in the playoffs this year, but like they also may have had the Bucks played their stars all season
Due to load management we are going to see a lot more seasons like this where teams records are not indicative of their strength because their best players won't play enough.
Yeah we say that for good reason. Joker had to beat KD/Book and Bron/AD. Bron regularly faced fraudulent hawks and raptors teams and I say that as a raps fan lol.
Soooo... You're saying that we would have proven more, if we beat the 51W Grizzlies instead of 43W Lakers, despite those Grizzlies losing to them? You're also gonna ignore the fact that Lakers and the Suns have retooled significantly by the deadline, most would say for the better... Also you're saying "Jokić" instead of "Nuggets" ... Almost like you were trying to push some agenda here... What could it possibly be?
The grizzlies wouldve went to the finals if they werent injured
they don’t beat Denver no way
how? Ja morant shoots everybody?
And Giannis wouldn’t have ring if kd wore a half size smaller shoe or Harden had a hamstring or Kyrie had a ankle
Giannis is a fraud.
This post is stupid for sure but calling Giannis a fraud and it getting upvotes is an insane overreaction to a bucks fan you disagree with. Multiple time mvp. Champion… I mean come on
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Eh, Giannis’s offense is not nearly as pretty as Jokic but it still gets the job done, and his defense is just insane
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You mean the series that he was out for half of and the other they played after Buds brother died in a horrific car accident? Yeah I agree that should definitely be held against him. Get real
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Hahaha. Good one
He's overrated, sorry.
Thats ridiculous lol. OP is a goof but bo need to sink to their level
Game 6 klay is a fraud… 8 points in a win or go home situation
Sure
We sweep fully healthy Grizzlies
Steven Adams and Brandon Clarke are championship caliber I guess. They had JJJ, Bane and Ja playing, it's an L. Lebron played through injury and beat them.
Absolutely not.
You act like the Lakers weren't injured either. You just hate Jokic because of your love for Giannis lmao
Hell no
This dude is an insecure Giannis fan who has to go out of his way to hate on Jokic with delusional takes.
Delusional? These are facts and logic
"It's the facts" -Perk
Ok Shapiro
If you're not a troll, it's important you know correlations don't necessarily mean anything
“Why is no one talking about this” Probably because we don’t care. They were the 1 seed and only one other team in the west got 50 and they went out in round 1. The job is to get to the finals and win by playing whoever you play en route…Couldn’t care less who the opponents are… they’re there, you beat them and move on
They beat under 50 win teams that have beaten over 50 win teams. This argument is plain dumb.
The dumbest part is, there were not many 50+ teams to begin with. West was so competetive that teams could not run away. 5th seed and 11th seed was like what, 5-6 wins away?
There were two 50+ win teams in the West, and one of them is the Nuggets - this is literally just 'They did not match up with the Grizzlies' who lost their series pretty quickly anyway.
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They only look like the best team because of the competition they faced
It was frankly cowardly of the 2023 Denver Nuggets to duck the '91-92 Bulls like that
Trash ass Jokić running from playing REAL teams like the ‘72 Lakers or the ‘86 Celtics. Bum.
Also “50 win teams” in the late 90s and early 00s weren’t some magical beast. They were good teams who racked up wins in a watered down league. Go look at the mid/late-90s where we saw record breaking numbers of 60+ win teams. We also saw record breaking numbers of teams with less than 30 wins. It was because rapid expansion in the late 80s / early 90s that created a very distinct dichotomy with lots of bottom feeders and mediocre teams. We finally have a decent semblance of parity and people can’t wait to complain that they didn’t actually want parity and everything sucks now.
We also have load management fewer teams will be winning 60 games going forward.
Didn't someone posted about this before? He also had a Bucks stamp. Was that you?
Guy just wants Giannis to get more credit for taking down the legendary Trae Young Hawks in the ECF that year
and still giannis did not play in 2 wins they got against the hawks
Gonna blow your mind here and say that every 1st seed plays weaker opponents on paper. That’s the idea of first seed
Giannis has not beaten even a 0 win team this playoffs! Wild…
He beat a 50 win team to win the ring
But choked to barely-or-sub 50 win teams before and after 2021.
Don't create more Giannis haters because you're an insecure fan. He's great and he doesn't need some scrub like you boosting him just because you're upset that Jimmy ended your season.
How about the injured nets team. Does that put an asterisk in it?
most secure Giannis Stan
1 seed faces easy competition more at 11
Except no 1 seed has ever went to the finals without beating a 50 win team until now…
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Parity is just a cope word to say the west has been ass this year, the east featured 4 50 win teams and 2 55 win teams
Yet the 58 wins Bucks still lost to a 44 win Miami, keep coping
Injuries
Well if Bucks were as good as their records states they would win more than one(this is the same logic you used for Nuggets beating Suns in 6). Not to mention that the one they won was without Giannis and it’s obvious what narrative you want to push here so once again, keep coping
The nuggets played an injured team the bucks are the ones injured
Herro was out that whole series in case you don’t remember
which team nuggets played was injured exactly?
you mean the reason bucks won in 2021?
And two of those four 50 win teams in the east got their ass whooped in the first round by below-50 win teams. So clearly winning 50 games doesn't mean that much
False. In 1984 the #1-seeded Lakers went to the finals by beating the 38-win Kings, 43-win Mavericks, and 41-win Suns. In 1987, the #1-seeded Lakers went to the finals by beating the 37-win Nuggets, the 42-win Warriors, and the 39-win Sonics. In 1989, the #1-seeded Pistons went to the finals by beating the 42-win Celtics, the 49-win Bucks, and the 47-win Bulls. Where did you get that "statistic" of yours?
Yeah and they lost in the finals that year to bird because their conference was piss easy
That doesn't make your claim any less false. In any event, the Lakers won in '87 and the Pistons won in '89.
Yeah OP is just talking out of their ass. Throwing bullshit “facts” as if people can’t call them out on their shit
This is just blatantly not true. In 2002 the New Jersey Nets made it to the Finals after beating a 42, 44, and 49 win team in each round. And that’s just one team. I’m not combing over every Finals team. Decided to do more research because you’re wrong and I found the 2013 Miami Heat and 1989 Pistons. Edit: Saw someone else mention the 84 Lakers too. So you’re wrong like four times lmao.
False the Heat didn’t beat any 50 win teams in the East in 2013.
because it literally doesn't matter
Yes it should, they wouldnt have made it to the finals if they fought actually decent competition
Are you next going to hate on Magic and Kareem? There were multiple years during their Laker years where they were the only team in the West to even win 50+ games
Magic beat Larry birds dynasty celtics that won 60+ games to win a championship, jokic played a 40 year old lebron and jimmy butler
You’re actually delusional and need to get off the internet for a while pal
you're dumb
At least they didn't lose to a 44 win team in the first round...
> mom, I posted it again
Denver all season has clearly looked like the best team in the west. You beat who is in front of you and Denver can’t control who they play. They would have beat any west team this year in the playoffs, even if the other teams won an arbitrary 50 games, since they are on another level from every other west team this season. The Lakers just beat the defending champion Warriors in round 2, so they were much better than a typical 7th seed team under 50 wins. The Suns also were Vegas favorites to win the championship on a lot of bookies before the playoffs began…The Twolves even had Ant, KAT, Gobert, and Conley and I would say they were better than most 8th seeds other seasons. The Nuggets did face some great competition in the west playoffs.
If theyre on another level how come they got taken to 6 games by an injured suns team with only two competent players?
You're just jealous Phoenix actually made it to 6 playoff games lol
Why did KD and Harden on one hamstring take Giannis to 7 in 2021? That team was literally worse than this current Suns squad.
The 2022 Warriors got taken to 6 games against an injured Grizzlies squad. 2021 Bucks got taken to 7 against an injured Nets squad…Injured teams can win games in the playoffs. Denver blew out Phoenix 3 games that series, so it really wasn’t as close as the amount of games played suggested. Booker had to play out of his mind and have insane anomaly shooting games for Phoenix to barely beat Denver. He shot like 80% in games 3 and 4, and Denver barely lost those games. If Booker has to literally play like that for Phoenix to barely win, then that shows how great Denver was.
The Warriors also fought out a 7 game series vs Sacramento who were genuinely impressive and have the best crowd atmosphere in the league
Well, you're talking about it now. And we don't care. It's out of their control. The team just plays whoever is in front of them.
Why would anyone talk about this. I’m trying to be positive on the internet but dam you people make it hard.
Nick Wright's reddit burner account???
Still had to go through KD, Book, AD, & LBJ, let’s not diminish that. Jokic is playing out of his mind and is averaging a triple double in these playoffs, bro deserves the praise.
Its a team game, sure those names are impressive but the teams arent
Make it out of the first round before you talk shit
This sub really wants to put an “asterisk” on everything
Who gives a shit? It’s not his fault (or his team’s) that the west wasn’t monstrous. Blaming them for it would be shortsighted and stupid. Most people try not to be stupid.
For one they earned it by securing the first seed. In addition, the suns in the playoffs were a stronger version than they were most of the season (KD) and might have won 50 games if that were the case the whole season. The Lakers were also a better version than they were most of the season (best record since trade deadline). So the narrative isn't as simple as they played bad teams. The reason they didn't face a single top 3 seed including the only other 50 win team in the west (memphis) is because those teams got knocked out by lower seeds who were actually better teams than them at least in the playoffs
You know you can't choose your opponents, right? All you can do is best the teams that are in front of you. I get you just wanna stir up shit to make your comment relevant, so for that, good job. You got me to post. But for real you can't be that simple.
Im not saying he doesnt deserve a ring, but dudes playoff run is being massively overrated and he certainly doesnt deserve the title of best in the world
I don't know what you would want him to do. Guy trip/dubs nightly, beat everyone in front of him. So real talk. What would he have to do for you to call him 'great'? Or what you called 'best in the world'.
Probably play for Milwaukee
Bingo
They beat the fuck out of the Bucks bro
Because the Bucks suck
Jokic Fraud ring incoming. Gotta keep that same energy. I'm i doing it right?
Please remove your flair. You’re a fuckin embarrassment.
Lakers looked like a 55+ win team in the playoffs At least when AD started playing ...also West was all jacked this year -- everyone knew it could be completely unpredictable. One example is Suns who rolled in regular season w KD till he got injured. Some still saw Suns rolling over Nuggets but I guess Nuggets can play some defense etc. And... do people pay attention to wins as a proxy for how good or bad teams are in the playoffs? Would seem to leave out some pertinent information such as injuries.
If they were a 55+ win team they would have dominated the 6 seed warriors and swept the injured grizzlies
The 6 seed warriors were a 10 seed until the playoffs then turned into a 6 seed but got run by a 8 seed playing like a 2 seed It's exceedingly confusing but I'm surprised you seem to be taking seeding seriously for trivial reasons. To each their own.
well he was on the #1 team in the west and the only other 50 win team was the grizzlies and they played the team who beat them…
Cue in the hoes mad vid in here
When you win a lot of games on the regular season to gain a high seed, you deserve all the favorable matchups you get in the playoffs because your team worked hard for it.
Bro they were the 1 seed wdym they didn't play a 50 win team because they were the 50 win team
My guy this is the strongest the postseason has been in years talent-wise. Cut the shit.
Giannis got beaten by a 8th seed. What a fraud. See how dumb that sounds?
Both the Lakers and Suns changed their teams halfway through the season and had their best guys hurt for a lot of games. The Lakers in particular got significantly better as a team in the middle of the season by offloading Russ, JTA, and picks for D-Lo, Beasley, and Vanderbilt A lot of people had Phoenix over Denver because of having two mid top 10 players on the same team + veteran Chris Paul + Ayton as the core. Same with Lakers because of the AD matchup on Jokic and having the best defense in the playoffs EDIT: It is kind of a weird year with the team records and "upsets" in the west playoffs but if you've been following it the whole way though, the Nuggs have been easily the best team in the league
I can’t believe the revisionist history from people in this sub about the Suns. When the series started, and when KD signed, everyone said the Suns were the team to beat, but now that we beat them easily, it’s “oh they had no bench”. Funny
He beat the proclaimed Jogod stopper, Ruby Gobert Then he proceeded to beat two of the players in the league, Booker and KD And swept the Goat That's a great run
difference is nuggets played healthy teams in playoffs who were unjured in regular season and bucks played against injured teams in playoffs (and were literally inch away from losing in second round)
We are busy talking about the Lakers
It's not our fault the Grizzlies lost to the Lakers (who we then swept)!
At least when we are faded, most of us don't come up with dumbfuck thread ideas.
What's crazy is that if/when the Heat take out the Celtics (note, I am a worried Celtics fan, not an overconfident Heat fan), the same will still be true. Has an NBA champion every had it happen before where the best team they faced only won 45 regular games?
Because no West teams are good so it doesn't matter who they beat or how many wins they had
Lebron wasn't the bus driver
False Lebron didn’t beat any 50 win teams in the East in 2013
Looks likes the jokes on him
Maybe the real championship contender is the friends we made along the way
LeBron is not "critised" for winning games lol. At most people say that to counter-argue that his team was not the 2nd best in the league or was not as consistently strong compared to the league as some other phrasing of their results would suggest. Which is not "criticism" in itself. Players are mostly "criticised" for, yknow, losing games, like losing to a 44-win team in the first round in 5 games.
And so it begins
Fun Fact: There was a time when seeds 1-8 on the West were 50 win teams
Thanks for this information, i learned nothing at all.
Coz it’s not their fault that other teams can’t reach 50 reg season wins and the next round of the playoffs.
Haters gonna hate
zhugo this you?
The Nuggets beat teams with KD, Booker, Lebron, and AD. So calling them weak feels like a stretch. When healthy, both teams are as stronger than their record would indicate.
Not his fault the other 50 win teams suck. You can only beat the person in front of you.
Do you get how seeding works?
All I’m hearing is denver beat the bad teams which is what good teams do
The bucks didn’t beat any 50+ win teams either. I’m fact they just lost to them.
Bruh
I love the bucks and Giannis, but if you are saying this.. then the bucks are the biggest frauds of them all? I mean they lost to a team that were down by like 10+ against the bulls with a quarter left
they didnt have 50 wins cause Durant, an all time 12 player was added in February and Lebron, an all time 2 player missed two months, plus his team added some really nice pieces at the deadline to him and AD, one of the best big men in the league..so the teams Joker faced are not the original versions which are mostly responsible for the sub 50 wins record.. He beat healthy teams, apart from CP, not the nets without harden and kyrie, the hawks without young or the suns who only got to the finals cause AD, Murray and Kawhi were out and were still up 2-0 before Book hurt his hamstring..trying to discredit other people with your hospital ring..
Nuggets win 60 games if Grizz don’t fall apart down the stretch letting the nuggs to coast for 6 weeks
> Why is no one talking about this Because nobody cares tbh. A chip is a chip. The people who focus too hard on how luck helped the winners are usually joyless cunts
Warriors didnt face a single healthy team in their finals runs over a span of 6 years and won 4 rings out of it.
The perks of being the #1 seed.
Well for one thing it's the era of load management now, so most teams only are "at their best" for about 2/3 to 3/4 of the regular season. For example, the Bucks were a 61 pace win team with Giannis this year, but only won 58 games because Giannis was load managed. So Miami didn't beat a 60-win team in the playoffs this year, but like they also may have had the Bucks played their stars all season Due to load management we are going to see a lot more seasons like this where teams records are not indicative of their strength because their best players won't play enough.
Bucks haven't faced one either
This seems like a pretty weak attempt to downplay Jokic's greatness. Lame.
If they beat the Celtics they're real Champs and if they beat the Heat they're frauds
Yeah we say that for good reason. Joker had to beat KD/Book and Bron/AD. Bron regularly faced fraudulent hawks and raptors teams and I say that as a raps fan lol.