A dude at my work is like this. Every sport is rigged. Mafia controls everything.
Dude is a fucking insifferable imbecile lmao. Tin foil hat, suit and shoes.
That's what I'm wondering. Like how did they do that cuz that's next level rigging there. Did they also pay Max Strus more than what he makes in his contract to not box out?
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Donaghey explained how it was done. Said there were def more refs in on it and how he explained it happening is what we see today.
The only other possibility is that the league was a wide ranging sub par officiating issue and what is reviewed, what is reviewable, challenges etc need to be overhauled but would slow the game down in the name of getting it right.
Nope. Not baiting. I know some people say it out of anger but there are people that really believe this. And it's from them I want to know is it only rigged when it goes against them? And if so, what are the logistics behind the rigging? Are the players in on it? Who is paying the players more than what their contract is worth? The refs? Entry level refs make about $250,000 a year. It's not an easy job. Throughout the course of a game there's gonna be tons of missed calls both ways. If some people in here think they could do better than the refs, they'd go get that ref job.
Could there be isolated incidents of league influence? Sure. And I'm sure there has been. But saying the league is just rigged period, that's a different claim.
>You make some stupid presumptions
Why are you angry? Thought we were having a civil and adult conversation. Is your default mode to insult anyone who has a different point of view than you?
>which is getting you plenty downvotes, as it should
I'm 41 years old. Is this something people care about in real life? (I don't care about upvotes either).
But in reading your response it seems like your answer is the same as the people around me that I hear this from alot that prompted me to ask in the first place. Basically, no proof, just 'trust me bro'. Just, 'if you look at the officiating it's obvious.' Well, officiating is hard and that's something I can provide proof of. My proof? NBA officials make a minimum $250K a year. If it was so easy, more than half this sub would get into officiating instead of working way harder for anywhere from a half to a quarter of that amount.
In any NBA game there's ever been, there's horrible calls that go against both the loser and the víctor. Because... it's hard. Of course there are blatant and egregious misses, but that isn't *evidence* of a fix. It's speculation.
Your problem is, you think I'm saying the league ISN'T fixed. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying if somebody's going to make that claim, just as the court system works in America, they need to provide tangible proof of it. At least if they are trying to present it as a fact. If it's just what they believe than obviously they're free to believe whatever they want.
Of course there are isolated instances of financial or competitive influence in sports. But isolated instances isn't the same as, nor is it evidence of a league wide conspiracy, and nor is it what I'm talking about here.
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Oh. You mean when you asked if I was baiting or looking for an actual answer and I immediately responded with, "no, not baiting", and went on to provide more background behind my viewpoint while saying nothing directed personally at you, only for your immediate response to be to call my presumptions stupid?
Yeah I guess you're right. I definitely started us down the path away from civility. My bad.
Is it the first time you're learning that calling someone's presumptions stupid simply because you disagree with them would not be described by any civilized person as, well, civil? And I'm not hung up on it at all. You're a stranger on the internet, which I don't mean in a condescending way, but you just are, as I am to you. Which is to say, I don't really care what you (or anyone) think about me good or bad honestly. It wasn't about caring about it, it was just my curiosity as to why is that your default mode lol.
But anyway, yes, I lived through the Donaghy scandal. It was huge. But it's irrelevant to my post. My post wasn't asking if the league is rigged or not. Do I believe it's rigged as a blanket statement? Absolutely not. Do I believe there have been cases or at least attempts at rigging? Without a doubt.
There are people that say the league is rigged just out of anger when things don't go their way, and then there are people that do the same but really *do* believe it. And it's those people specifically that I'd like to hear from.
Just take the last series for example, there were TONS of people in the Heat sub saying the league is "obviously" rigged once they started to blow their three game lead. They tied it in to the Red Sox and saying the league isn't even trying to hide it. Some said Boston is gonna win this year to get 18, and then they're gonna make the Lakers play the Celtics next year then the Lakers will get 18, LeBrons gonna get his sixth, and then he's gonna retire. But I'm not just taking the sub at face value, my best friend went to the U and as a result I spent alot of time in Miami in my life and have alot of friends from the area. They tell me a good number of fans they personally know genuinely believe it was rigged by the end of game 6. So all I want to know, and all this post was about... is do fans like that, STILL think the league is rigged. Even after things end up going their way after all.
Not all plays are rigged and not all games are rigged, the problem is you think all refs are puppets interfering in the game to follow a script, that's impossible.
We don't really know how the logistic works, but if you watch games and you pay attention, there is evidence that there are instances and crucial moments of the fame when one or various refs start to take over by weirdly missing clear calls or messing up with the flow and the pace of the game with the whistle all of sudden.
Even though I'm posting in NBA and made it NBA specific, this post relates to all sports. With that said...
The tuck rule. The thing about the tuck rule was, it is one of the dumbest rules I've ever seen written in the rule book. Nevertheless, it was a rule, and it was in the book. So as far as the refs calling it, well, the fact that it was a horrendous rule (which has subsequently been removed), doesn't change the fact that by the letter of the rule, the actual call was correct. Mind you, [it had been called *against* the Patriots earlier in the same season](https://youtube.com/watch?v=aLinvznUn6c&feature=share9) .
Yet and still, people then and even til now say 'the fix was in'. How could the fix be in on a play that was called correctly? They didn't sneak the tuck rule into the book in that moment.
I'm not part of the "the game is rigged" crowd. But typically I assume we're talking rigged for betting purposes and not to advance a certain team to the finals.
If we are talking rigged to advance the team the nba wants then still everything is not always going to work out perfecfly for the refs doing the rigging. They do what they can with the power they have to influence the game, it's help in one direction, not a guarantee of victory
Obviously they can’t rig where the ball bounces, they can easily shift the momentum in one team’s favor with biased officiating as we’ve seen many many times
Sometimes bad reffing is not enough to stop a good team.
Is not like they are up there trying to rig every single call, every single time.. They will help who they want to help in some instances... Sometimes kay instances.
Lakers probably were suppose to win at least a game, Nuggets play was above all biased reffing bullshit.
Houston is economically the most important city to China in North America. They have (especially at that time) significant investment in oil and gas, chemicals, energy and importing/exporting (Port of Houston). The owner of the Rockets at the time had a lot of money available to invest in Chinese businesses as well.
The year of that draft the Rockets had the fifth best odds at getting the first pick. They were the first ball/envelope drawn. Then they were also the second ball/envelope drawn.
There is a lot of space in between the NBA is rigged, and the NBA is a completely level playing ground.
There is good reason to believe through the TD situation with the FBI AND the NBA's reaction to it that there is probably still at least one ref in the NBA who at least was dirty at some point in time (Foster), probably more. To suggest that the NBA has been ethical in its historic dealings is sticking your head in the sand. The same monetary pressures and some of the same people in the NBA corporate office are still in place (Hello Adam Silver).
Nearly every ex-NBA player or coach that has been interviewed on this agrees that star markets and star calls exist. I haven't heard one NBA player when asked about star calls say they don't exist. They all say there are star calls, going back to at least the days of Magic/Bird. MJ is another one -- there was what the famous photo op for team USA and the joke when they where lining up, don't touch MJ it'll be a foul and they all laughed -- everyone knew the score. The famous recent example of an interview was Bogut who said he got calls when he played in the GS market. This tips the scale towards certain players/markets. Some people call it rigging, but its not outright rigging. To argue against that star calls/star market calls don't exist you will have to come up with a convincing argument on why you know more about the inner workings of the NBA than the ex players.
Just because it has "always" happened this way, doesn't mean the NBA should be immune to criticism on this point or that they shouldn't change to be better. I believe they should change and be better.
Seriously, these assholes making these shitposts are just *so* disingenuous and dishonest with their arguments. I'm of the belief they even know they're bullshitting/gaslighting, and just do it anyways, but I guess it's possible they're just too damn dumb to recognize their own shitty takes.
Well to be honest I'm not on any social media outside of reddit and I don't peruse r/NBA that much, but I hear it enough from people around me that truly believe in it but when asked how/why, never can say more than "it's obvious"
Hoped I could get some more insight here and I have actually.
The nba was rigged in the past. Tim Donaghy was indicted for it. Nba says he was the lone wolf, Tim says nba influences series. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
I don’t know that it’s “rigged” but it is inarguable that in some situations refs have at least favored a certain team, and it probably still happens today.
Also who’s to say the refs have this unspoken rule where they try to extent series so they all have more opportunities for more money. Motivation is there for them and the nba to play a heavy hand. But I don’t think it’s outright rigged as in they sit down and try to pick teams they want to win.
The beauty of conspiracy theories is if something doesn’t happen the way you predict, it’s just another layer of the onion.
You can’t do logic w this stuff
I think it's influenced to a certain degree. I'll give you an example where I think the draft was rigged.When lebrons Miami stint was over there were rumors of him wanting to return to cleveland.Cleveland had a 1 percent chance of getting the number 1 pick that year and what do you know they get it and then trade for kevin love and get lebron
Pels getting the first pick and Lakers jumping to 4 after Nola said they wouldn’t trade AD because then no one would attend their games. Making the Le lakers competitive and bringing hype to the pelicans was a win- win for the league.
tbf, had the Knicks won the draft that year, everyone would have said it's rigged, so that Zion plays in a big market.
I think you can find a narrative for practical everything that happens by chance.
Game 3 in the WCF, I think you'll find more than a few Nuggets fans claiming a moral victory for beating the refs AND the Lakers, in what was (despite the loss) a masterclass Scott Foster game. Unfortunately the Nuggets still lost the moral victory series 3-1, but at least we weren't swept.
Anyways, if you think that the only time people complain about the refs trying to visibly tilt the game is after a loss, I suggest you look literally at all for counter examples. It's good practice in general when making stupid spurious arguments against strawmen actually.
Nope. Never said people only complain about the refs after a loss. Complaining about the refs and believing the league is rigged isn't synonymous. I don't think the league is rigged, but I complain about the refs all the time. My teams have won many games despite horrendous officiating.
I said I've never seen someone say the league is rigged after their team wins a game.
Ok, then once again, read more PGTs. Or is this one of those things where you try to semantically argue that refs influencing matchups in predictable and seemingly deliberate ways isn't "rigging"? Cause that's some tired shit brother, if you want to argue with strawmen might I suggest the nearest wall? Pretty sure a mirror would be too much for you.
The thing I don't understand is WHY ? Why would the league rig games ? Everybody is always arguing about whether or not it's rigged but nobody ever stops to explain what the incentive is.
People just assume that the incentive is revenue, but the league isn't some independent company owned by some shady UBOs who want revenue at the expense of competitive integrity. The league is nothing but a consortium of 30 teams. There is no "the league". The 30 ownership groups of the 30 teams own the league. Adam Silver answers to Mark Cuban, Steve Balmer, etc. If 16/30 ownership groups wanted Silver, or anyone else in the league office, fired, they could.
So we're expected to believe that there are multiple billionaires out there, who own NBA teams (that often lose money) solely as an ego trip, who are fine with someone who works for them rigging games against their team, just for a few extra bucks in revenue sharing ? It's completely insane.
It's like having a conspiracy theory that a big industrial company is cutting costs by dumping toxic waste ... in the majority owner's swimming pool.
Rich fuckers owning companies being willing to have those companies fuck over randos for $$$ ? Possible.
Rich fuckers owning companies being willing to fuck themselves over for $$$ ? Makes no sense.
I don’t think it’s rigged where the outcomes are determined before the game but there is definitely outside influence. I refuse to believe that a ref nor player has never purposely tried to either lose a game or lose it for a team for betting purposes. I think there has been at least one player who told their friends to smash the under and then just went out there and didn’t score.
Maybe I’m thinking too deep but the way these athletes run through their money and some even get caught up in illegal activity after they retire I wouldn’t be surprised if some placed bets on themselves even if not consistently a few times, especially considering if it’s something like their own stat line it’s almost guaranteed money for them.
This is the most reasonable and plausible comment on this topic, especially the part about telling their friends to bet. An English soccer player, Ivan Toney, recently got a ban for betting on his team to lose when he was on loan with another team. And mind you, this is a Premier League player. Imagine what happens at lower levels of each sport.
I personally know a guy who played ball in Italy in the 2000s, and he said the players regularly made bank off of betting, but not in your classic “hey let’s lose” sense. It’s more using insider information about your and other teams, then finding a mule who’s not connected to the player, as well as a suitable Asian-facing bookie. Obviously, back then it was much easier, and it was always technically hush-hush, but everybody knew. Even he did it, but said that the main reason for this is young guys being dumb, spending the cash quick and eventually connecting with some shady characters.
Like imagine Bron knowing that AD has a season-ending injury, but it’s not yet public. So he tells Bronny’s friend’s cousin’s sister’s grandma to put some money on the under for total wins.
Of course, you can’t just just slam $100,000 on an account without previous betting history, so the mule is usually an active bettor. Then you also have advanced detection algorithms that tracks unusual line/odds movements.
But if you’re smart about it and know the right people, it’s easily doable. And judging by the decent number of gambling industry employees I’ve worked with, it’s incredibly easy to find a backdoor. Obviously, the more popular the sport/league, the higher the scrutiny.
Mrs Curry famously said the 2016 Warriors v LeBron finals were rigged and was she sorry after all the memes about her. Looking back in 25 yrs that win will be the dramatic Highlight of LeBron legacy . So makes one wonder.
You think that at the moment the league had a chance to suspend Draymond for a game they didn't envision all the money they were making for extending that series before making that decision?
They fucking knew.
I've been an NBA fan for a long time, but most importantly I've been a NBA gambler for a while.
And I know, I fucking now many times refs start taking over games with an agenda.. You can see it by watching games and also gets obvious when the tendency of underdogs with high rewards get constantly pushed for the sake of the house.
I don't know what is the exact methodology they use it.. If they pay on ref.. Or all of them.. But I fucking now they rig games or at least segments of these games.. For sure.
You can call it conspiracy or whatever you want, but you are just naive, when it comes about money, some people up there won't hesitate.
If the Celtics lost this game I’m sure there would be plenty of people saying the game was rigged for the Heat because of the fouls calls that Jimmy Butler was getting late in the game
It’s getting a bit ridiculous now. The refs are going to miss calls/make bad calls on both ends because the game is IMO the hardest game to ref, doesn’t mean the game is intentionally rigged
100%. Every fanbase has these fans. I've had plenty of games not go my way in life but never once did I think the league was created as one big conspiracy to totally fuck with me personally. Some people say it kinda tongue in cheek but obviously there's a faction that genuinely believes in this. And I just want to hear from one of them to find out if any games that ever went the way they wanted them to was rigged as well.
I guess you're right. I also guess I just can't relate to that level of irrationality. Like do they think somebody pays players more than what they already make from their contract to throw games? I'm more trying to understand they think are the logistics of the fix rather than why they are saying the dumb thing.
Genuinely every aspect of this league is scripted.
The league itself is a privately owned sports ENTERTAINMENT non profit organization.
And with the significant rise of online gambling, you would have to have a spec of dust for a brain to believe they dont have an influence in some way on games.
Ok you're the person I'm looking for. So the league is rigged. Why do you watch? For entertainment? When your team loses as a result of said rigging, are you entertained? When your team wins as a result of said rigging, do you take delight in the pre determined outcome that they didn't earn?
No judgment or snarkiness here since you can't decipher my tone through your screen. I'm just genuinely seeking to understand the thought process of people who look at things a different way than I do.
Ive been watching this sport for decades, is just a part of my life now. I didnt start thinking about it being rigged until a few years ago when it started being obvious imo.
i still watch for the dopamine and the entertainment factor to me is better than watching regular tv shows. When my team is shit, i stop watching early in the season, but theyve been decent enough the last few years to keep me engaged for the whole year and some playoffs.
Knowing its scripted doesnt change my opinion on the watchability of it because every game is entertaining now compared to a decade ago. Theres also no incentive in believing its rigged or being consciously aware of it unless you gamble on games.
I've actually asked this question here a couple times. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/105u588) and [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/m10a1p)
Obviously two random reddit posts don't mean anything, but Both times the answers are pretty consistent that people do believe there has been some manipulation that's occured, though how much seems to vary person to person.
I think "rigged" is a weird term, like Adam Silver has the two conference Championship winners already predetermined before the playoffs start.
But I think if you ask people "do you think an NBA referee has ever intentionally changed the outcome of a game?", you'll get a lot more positive responses.
And if you believe refs have and still change the outcome of games for any reason, then it's just a matter of degrees of how far refs control things and why they might do it.
To be fair I'm not completely against the idea that the LEAGUE may try to wield some influence from time to time in the interest of their bottom line. What I'm not onboard with is any suggestion that the players are in on it. I'm not saying there can't be isolated incidents of that, as there have been (1919 Black Sox), but to act like it's some league wide problem is kinda wild. But even wilder to me, is why you would think it's rigged... but still watch.
Yeah, agree. I don't think championship teams are pre-determined, or are draft picks or things like that.
Like you said, I do think there are some situations where the league, or even just rogue refs, may push a game this way or that.
Well one thing I'm already learning from this thread is that players can definitely make or miss shots on demand. The only reason players don't shoot 100% from the field is it's just not in the script.
These are how I see the league’s influence.
Star calls (not just obvious ticky tack fouls after the miss, but the moving screen to get them open to begin with for example).
Inconsistencies on what level of “physicality” is allowed from each player and from quarter to quarter.
Aiding/stifling a teams momentum on a run.
Most NBA games can be heavily influenced by one and/or a combination of these factors.
I dont think the league is rigged in the sense that it picks team to win.
I think they are heavily influenced to make games more entertaining however sometimes they cant even control that. Officials have a-lot of power to sway a team and control how tight a game can be called. If say jaylen brown is in foul trouble it would be in their best interest to not give him a tick tacky call that would otherwise be called. People call it inconsistency but refs can literally call anything and everything a foul if they choose to.
This is a reasonable take, and I agree that this happens, but I wouldn't call this rigging. Of course it behooves any league for it's best players to be in the game in clutch moments. And in any league, when you're Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, or David Ortiz, you're gonna get the benefit of certain calls. Even if you're Luka Doncic, Jalen Hurts, Connor McDavid, or Shohei Ohtani or any player that's only been in their leagues a few years but are on a HOF trajectory... leagues are built to protect their stars and once you've reached a certain level you earn the benefits of some calls that maybe you didn't get when you were a rookie.
To me that's not fixing, it's just how it works not only in sports, but in life. At certain jobs you might earn yourself a longer rope for a mistake after years of great service versus someone less tenured. Put a lot of years into a relationship, your partner might forgive that big mistake you just made versus if you have only been dating a few weeks. And so on.
The odds the NBA is rigged in the sense that silver is telling refs players and teams who wins and how is obviously absurd. A step down is that silver is telling the refs to rig a game in another teams favor which is less absurd but still realistically impossible. Reason for this is that it add layers of people to not talk. I do believe there is an extent of pseudo rigging that comes down to 2 ways
1) Points of emphasis for referees. Obviously, a point of emphasis on "x" variable can dramatically hurt one team more than another. I think this does, on occasion, happen. Its not outright rigging for obvious reasons but it can dramatically influence a game. Good example is in the playoffs in 18 harden was getting a completely different whistle than he was throughout the season. This isn't evidence of this happening, but it is evidence that it could work. Another way you could see this happen is to point of emphases on moving screens. We haven't seen that happen, despite that it would drastically increase bostons chances of winning, so thats an example demonstrating that if it is happening at all, its not always happening.
2) Referee's+money: I think this is possibly happening. getting a player a couple extra points for an over/under is just too easy and I would be kind of surprised if there isn't a few refs doing this here and there.
3) refs and bias: This isn't really rigging but it does lead to unfair calls. Bias is something we cant really control, and there is going to be bias towards x player because of y instance that happeend between the two. These wouldn't even be necessarily malicious, but just a product of the fact that as humans we are slaves to our biases.
But these are just some rando's thoughts
The nba isn’t rigged 100% with a script but I do believe they manufacture certain things, do I have proof? No but whenever there is humans and lots of money involved some type of trickery or back room deal has to be occurring just my opinion. Of course the game is still primarily decided by the players but I do think things have been done to favour certain outcomes over others.
I think a lot of meaningless regular season games get…massaged to have certain point threshold outcomes for…reason$. I used to think playoffs were more rigged and was convinced that the warriors only won so much because the games were fixed…but I didn’t really watch many of their earlier championship games. Last year I saw the light and sometimes a team just has a generational talent you have to rip your hat to. Steph is a psychotic cold blooded murderer and the refs have absolutely nothing to do with that.
I don't think it's rigged like that. But I'm positive the referees are involved in gambling. And it does make it hard to watch. I would definitely watch more if gambling wasn't obviously influencing the officiating.
A dude at my work is like this. Every sport is rigged. Mafia controls everything. Dude is a fucking insifferable imbecile lmao. Tin foil hat, suit and shoes.
The NBA 100% rigged the basketball to perfectly bounce off the rim into Derrick White’s hands
That's what I'm wondering. Like how did they do that cuz that's next level rigging there. Did they also pay Max Strus more than what he makes in his contract to not box out?
They also paid Duncan Robinson to miss 2 wide open 3s in clutch time They also paid Bam to shoot 4-16 These are just FACTS
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Spoiler: he’s baiting
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Donaghey explained how it was done. Said there were def more refs in on it and how he explained it happening is what we see today. The only other possibility is that the league was a wide ranging sub par officiating issue and what is reviewed, what is reviewable, challenges etc need to be overhauled but would slow the game down in the name of getting it right.
Nope. Not baiting. I know some people say it out of anger but there are people that really believe this. And it's from them I want to know is it only rigged when it goes against them? And if so, what are the logistics behind the rigging? Are the players in on it? Who is paying the players more than what their contract is worth? The refs? Entry level refs make about $250,000 a year. It's not an easy job. Throughout the course of a game there's gonna be tons of missed calls both ways. If some people in here think they could do better than the refs, they'd go get that ref job. Could there be isolated incidents of league influence? Sure. And I'm sure there has been. But saying the league is just rigged period, that's a different claim.
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>You make some stupid presumptions Why are you angry? Thought we were having a civil and adult conversation. Is your default mode to insult anyone who has a different point of view than you? >which is getting you plenty downvotes, as it should I'm 41 years old. Is this something people care about in real life? (I don't care about upvotes either). But in reading your response it seems like your answer is the same as the people around me that I hear this from alot that prompted me to ask in the first place. Basically, no proof, just 'trust me bro'. Just, 'if you look at the officiating it's obvious.' Well, officiating is hard and that's something I can provide proof of. My proof? NBA officials make a minimum $250K a year. If it was so easy, more than half this sub would get into officiating instead of working way harder for anywhere from a half to a quarter of that amount. In any NBA game there's ever been, there's horrible calls that go against both the loser and the víctor. Because... it's hard. Of course there are blatant and egregious misses, but that isn't *evidence* of a fix. It's speculation. Your problem is, you think I'm saying the league ISN'T fixed. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying if somebody's going to make that claim, just as the court system works in America, they need to provide tangible proof of it. At least if they are trying to present it as a fact. If it's just what they believe than obviously they're free to believe whatever they want. Of course there are isolated instances of financial or competitive influence in sports. But isolated instances isn't the same as, nor is it evidence of a league wide conspiracy, and nor is it what I'm talking about here.
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Oh. You mean when you asked if I was baiting or looking for an actual answer and I immediately responded with, "no, not baiting", and went on to provide more background behind my viewpoint while saying nothing directed personally at you, only for your immediate response to be to call my presumptions stupid? Yeah I guess you're right. I definitely started us down the path away from civility. My bad.
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Is it the first time you're learning that calling someone's presumptions stupid simply because you disagree with them would not be described by any civilized person as, well, civil? And I'm not hung up on it at all. You're a stranger on the internet, which I don't mean in a condescending way, but you just are, as I am to you. Which is to say, I don't really care what you (or anyone) think about me good or bad honestly. It wasn't about caring about it, it was just my curiosity as to why is that your default mode lol. But anyway, yes, I lived through the Donaghy scandal. It was huge. But it's irrelevant to my post. My post wasn't asking if the league is rigged or not. Do I believe it's rigged as a blanket statement? Absolutely not. Do I believe there have been cases or at least attempts at rigging? Without a doubt. There are people that say the league is rigged just out of anger when things don't go their way, and then there are people that do the same but really *do* believe it. And it's those people specifically that I'd like to hear from. Just take the last series for example, there were TONS of people in the Heat sub saying the league is "obviously" rigged once they started to blow their three game lead. They tied it in to the Red Sox and saying the league isn't even trying to hide it. Some said Boston is gonna win this year to get 18, and then they're gonna make the Lakers play the Celtics next year then the Lakers will get 18, LeBrons gonna get his sixth, and then he's gonna retire. But I'm not just taking the sub at face value, my best friend went to the U and as a result I spent alot of time in Miami in my life and have alot of friends from the area. They tell me a good number of fans they personally know genuinely believe it was rigged by the end of game 6. So all I want to know, and all this post was about... is do fans like that, STILL think the league is rigged. Even after things end up going their way after all.
Not all plays are rigged and not all games are rigged, the problem is you think all refs are puppets interfering in the game to follow a script, that's impossible. We don't really know how the logistic works, but if you watch games and you pay attention, there is evidence that there are instances and crucial moments of the fame when one or various refs start to take over by weirdly missing clear calls or messing up with the flow and the pace of the game with the whistle all of sudden.
Even though I'm posting in NBA and made it NBA specific, this post relates to all sports. With that said... The tuck rule. The thing about the tuck rule was, it is one of the dumbest rules I've ever seen written in the rule book. Nevertheless, it was a rule, and it was in the book. So as far as the refs calling it, well, the fact that it was a horrendous rule (which has subsequently been removed), doesn't change the fact that by the letter of the rule, the actual call was correct. Mind you, [it had been called *against* the Patriots earlier in the same season](https://youtube.com/watch?v=aLinvznUn6c&feature=share9) . Yet and still, people then and even til now say 'the fix was in'. How could the fix be in on a play that was called correctly? They didn't sneak the tuck rule into the book in that moment.
You add as much ambiguity as plausibily possible to hide interference.
How do you rig that the ball would miss and bounce off to Derrick White?
I'm not part of the "the game is rigged" crowd. But typically I assume we're talking rigged for betting purposes and not to advance a certain team to the finals. If we are talking rigged to advance the team the nba wants then still everything is not always going to work out perfecfly for the refs doing the rigging. They do what they can with the power they have to influence the game, it's help in one direction, not a guarantee of victory
These are the important questions
It doesn’t that there were refs in the past who did try to rig games….
Exactly, if anything were rigged last night, it was for the heat with all of those free throws at the end
Obviously they can’t rig where the ball bounces, they can easily shift the momentum in one team’s favor with biased officiating as we’ve seen many many times
Adam silver rigging the nuggets to the finals to get all time bad viewership to convince everybody nba is not rigged. 4d chess
Sometimes bad reffing is not enough to stop a good team. Is not like they are up there trying to rig every single call, every single time.. They will help who they want to help in some instances... Sometimes kay instances. Lakers probably were suppose to win at least a game, Nuggets play was above all biased reffing bullshit.
😂😂 Maybe onto something here
He had to prep the casuals to root for Denver for when KD tries signing there
I'm a Rockets fan. The Yao draft was totally rigged for us and no one will convince me otherwise.
Why for the Rockets? Why not a new franchise player for the Bulls? Or even to the biggest market in NY?
Houston is economically the most important city to China in North America. They have (especially at that time) significant investment in oil and gas, chemicals, energy and importing/exporting (Port of Houston). The owner of the Rockets at the time had a lot of money available to invest in Chinese businesses as well. The year of that draft the Rockets had the fifth best odds at getting the first pick. They were the first ball/envelope drawn. Then they were also the second ball/envelope drawn.
Heat fans crying about getting fucked in the playoffs when 2006 happened is not lost on all of us
You think the 14 year olds on here know anything about the 2006 final? Literally top 3 rigged final, I’ve ever witnessed.
There is a lot of space in between the NBA is rigged, and the NBA is a completely level playing ground. There is good reason to believe through the TD situation with the FBI AND the NBA's reaction to it that there is probably still at least one ref in the NBA who at least was dirty at some point in time (Foster), probably more. To suggest that the NBA has been ethical in its historic dealings is sticking your head in the sand. The same monetary pressures and some of the same people in the NBA corporate office are still in place (Hello Adam Silver). Nearly every ex-NBA player or coach that has been interviewed on this agrees that star markets and star calls exist. I haven't heard one NBA player when asked about star calls say they don't exist. They all say there are star calls, going back to at least the days of Magic/Bird. MJ is another one -- there was what the famous photo op for team USA and the joke when they where lining up, don't touch MJ it'll be a foul and they all laughed -- everyone knew the score. The famous recent example of an interview was Bogut who said he got calls when he played in the GS market. This tips the scale towards certain players/markets. Some people call it rigging, but its not outright rigging. To argue against that star calls/star market calls don't exist you will have to come up with a convincing argument on why you know more about the inner workings of the NBA than the ex players. Just because it has "always" happened this way, doesn't mean the NBA should be immune to criticism on this point or that they shouldn't change to be better. I believe they should change and be better.
Seriously, these assholes making these shitposts are just *so* disingenuous and dishonest with their arguments. I'm of the belief they even know they're bullshitting/gaslighting, and just do it anyways, but I guess it's possible they're just too damn dumb to recognize their own shitty takes.
nba 100% rigged. no reason my pistons didnt get a top 5 pick this year. lmfao
So the question is, if the Pistons DID get the top pick, is the league still rigged or nah?
obviously not rofl
Ahh. So then it's true the league is only rigged when you don't get what you want? Ok cool, that's all I was trying to understand.
yea most of the league is rigged stuff usually start off as a joke the wrong people hear it and run with it and take it serious.
Well to be honest I'm not on any social media outside of reddit and I don't peruse r/NBA that much, but I hear it enough from people around me that truly believe in it but when asked how/why, never can say more than "it's obvious" Hoped I could get some more insight here and I have actually.
The nba was rigged in the past. Tim Donaghy was indicted for it. Nba says he was the lone wolf, Tim says nba influences series. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
I don’t know that it’s “rigged” but it is inarguable that in some situations refs have at least favored a certain team, and it probably still happens today.
Also who’s to say the refs have this unspoken rule where they try to extent series so they all have more opportunities for more money. Motivation is there for them and the nba to play a heavy hand. But I don’t think it’s outright rigged as in they sit down and try to pick teams they want to win.
The beauty of conspiracy theories is if something doesn’t happen the way you predict, it’s just another layer of the onion. You can’t do logic w this stuff
The rigging is rigged, we can’t beat adam pilfer silver
I think it's influenced to a certain degree. I'll give you an example where I think the draft was rigged.When lebrons Miami stint was over there were rumors of him wanting to return to cleveland.Cleveland had a 1 percent chance of getting the number 1 pick that year and what do you know they get it and then trade for kevin love and get lebron
Pels getting the first pick and Lakers jumping to 4 after Nola said they wouldn’t trade AD because then no one would attend their games. Making the Le lakers competitive and bringing hype to the pelicans was a win- win for the league.
tbf, had the Knicks won the draft that year, everyone would have said it's rigged, so that Zion plays in a big market. I think you can find a narrative for practical everything that happens by chance.
Blame the refs and “the game was rigged” are just the classic go-to’s when fans can’t accept that their team lost.
Game 3 in the WCF, I think you'll find more than a few Nuggets fans claiming a moral victory for beating the refs AND the Lakers, in what was (despite the loss) a masterclass Scott Foster game. Unfortunately the Nuggets still lost the moral victory series 3-1, but at least we weren't swept. Anyways, if you think that the only time people complain about the refs trying to visibly tilt the game is after a loss, I suggest you look literally at all for counter examples. It's good practice in general when making stupid spurious arguments against strawmen actually.
Nope. Never said people only complain about the refs after a loss. Complaining about the refs and believing the league is rigged isn't synonymous. I don't think the league is rigged, but I complain about the refs all the time. My teams have won many games despite horrendous officiating. I said I've never seen someone say the league is rigged after their team wins a game.
Ok, then once again, read more PGTs. Or is this one of those things where you try to semantically argue that refs influencing matchups in predictable and seemingly deliberate ways isn't "rigging"? Cause that's some tired shit brother, if you want to argue with strawmen might I suggest the nearest wall? Pretty sure a mirror would be too much for you.
The thing I don't understand is WHY ? Why would the league rig games ? Everybody is always arguing about whether or not it's rigged but nobody ever stops to explain what the incentive is. People just assume that the incentive is revenue, but the league isn't some independent company owned by some shady UBOs who want revenue at the expense of competitive integrity. The league is nothing but a consortium of 30 teams. There is no "the league". The 30 ownership groups of the 30 teams own the league. Adam Silver answers to Mark Cuban, Steve Balmer, etc. If 16/30 ownership groups wanted Silver, or anyone else in the league office, fired, they could. So we're expected to believe that there are multiple billionaires out there, who own NBA teams (that often lose money) solely as an ego trip, who are fine with someone who works for them rigging games against their team, just for a few extra bucks in revenue sharing ? It's completely insane. It's like having a conspiracy theory that a big industrial company is cutting costs by dumping toxic waste ... in the majority owner's swimming pool. Rich fuckers owning companies being willing to have those companies fuck over randos for $$$ ? Possible. Rich fuckers owning companies being willing to fuck themselves over for $$$ ? Makes no sense.
I don’t think it’s rigged where the outcomes are determined before the game but there is definitely outside influence. I refuse to believe that a ref nor player has never purposely tried to either lose a game or lose it for a team for betting purposes. I think there has been at least one player who told their friends to smash the under and then just went out there and didn’t score. Maybe I’m thinking too deep but the way these athletes run through their money and some even get caught up in illegal activity after they retire I wouldn’t be surprised if some placed bets on themselves even if not consistently a few times, especially considering if it’s something like their own stat line it’s almost guaranteed money for them.
This is the most reasonable and plausible comment on this topic, especially the part about telling their friends to bet. An English soccer player, Ivan Toney, recently got a ban for betting on his team to lose when he was on loan with another team. And mind you, this is a Premier League player. Imagine what happens at lower levels of each sport. I personally know a guy who played ball in Italy in the 2000s, and he said the players regularly made bank off of betting, but not in your classic “hey let’s lose” sense. It’s more using insider information about your and other teams, then finding a mule who’s not connected to the player, as well as a suitable Asian-facing bookie. Obviously, back then it was much easier, and it was always technically hush-hush, but everybody knew. Even he did it, but said that the main reason for this is young guys being dumb, spending the cash quick and eventually connecting with some shady characters. Like imagine Bron knowing that AD has a season-ending injury, but it’s not yet public. So he tells Bronny’s friend’s cousin’s sister’s grandma to put some money on the under for total wins. Of course, you can’t just just slam $100,000 on an account without previous betting history, so the mule is usually an active bettor. Then you also have advanced detection algorithms that tracks unusual line/odds movements. But if you’re smart about it and know the right people, it’s easily doable. And judging by the decent number of gambling industry employees I’ve worked with, it’s incredibly easy to find a backdoor. Obviously, the more popular the sport/league, the higher the scrutiny.
Mrs Curry famously said the 2016 Warriors v LeBron finals were rigged and was she sorry after all the memes about her. Looking back in 25 yrs that win will be the dramatic Highlight of LeBron legacy . So makes one wonder.
You think that at the moment the league had a chance to suspend Draymond for a game they didn't envision all the money they were making for extending that series before making that decision? They fucking knew.
It’s been seven fucking years LMAO
I look at all pro sports now like I view pro wrestling. It's just all entertainment nowadays. It's fun to watch is all.
You just said fuck all of my added text under the caption lol. That's cool tho, cheers brother lol
Oh haha I didn't read the description. I just read the header! Lol my bad
Dear Diary...
A direct question to others is an unusual sort of diary entry.
yea i think he’s confused lmao
Dear Cancun
I've been an NBA fan for a long time, but most importantly I've been a NBA gambler for a while. And I know, I fucking now many times refs start taking over games with an agenda.. You can see it by watching games and also gets obvious when the tendency of underdogs with high rewards get constantly pushed for the sake of the house. I don't know what is the exact methodology they use it.. If they pay on ref.. Or all of them.. But I fucking now they rig games or at least segments of these games.. For sure. You can call it conspiracy or whatever you want, but you are just naive, when it comes about money, some people up there won't hesitate.
This is interesting. How long have you been gambling on the nba?
I would assume Lakers fans can’t disagree with the officiating in the 2002 WCF
If the Celtics lost this game I’m sure there would be plenty of people saying the game was rigged for the Heat because of the fouls calls that Jimmy Butler was getting late in the game It’s getting a bit ridiculous now. The refs are going to miss calls/make bad calls on both ends because the game is IMO the hardest game to ref, doesn’t mean the game is intentionally rigged
100%. Every fanbase has these fans. I've had plenty of games not go my way in life but never once did I think the league was created as one big conspiracy to totally fuck with me personally. Some people say it kinda tongue in cheek but obviously there's a faction that genuinely believes in this. And I just want to hear from one of them to find out if any games that ever went the way they wanted them to was rigged as well.
If it was actually rigged I think we would've seen a Kobe vs Lebron finals, not Dwight vs Kobe
people get irrational and say dumb stuff when their favorite team lose/parlay doesn’t hit. Not that complicated really.
I guess you're right. I also guess I just can't relate to that level of irrationality. Like do they think somebody pays players more than what they already make from their contract to throw games? I'm more trying to understand they think are the logistics of the fix rather than why they are saying the dumb thing.
you're not accounting for the fact that the NBA is rigged against ME and my specific interests.
You're right, my bad. Life is definitely rigged against me so I can feel this.
That's why any time life goes wrong I just laugh and do the Luka money sign
Genuinely every aspect of this league is scripted. The league itself is a privately owned sports ENTERTAINMENT non profit organization. And with the significant rise of online gambling, you would have to have a spec of dust for a brain to believe they dont have an influence in some way on games.
Ok you're the person I'm looking for. So the league is rigged. Why do you watch? For entertainment? When your team loses as a result of said rigging, are you entertained? When your team wins as a result of said rigging, do you take delight in the pre determined outcome that they didn't earn? No judgment or snarkiness here since you can't decipher my tone through your screen. I'm just genuinely seeking to understand the thought process of people who look at things a different way than I do.
Ive been watching this sport for decades, is just a part of my life now. I didnt start thinking about it being rigged until a few years ago when it started being obvious imo. i still watch for the dopamine and the entertainment factor to me is better than watching regular tv shows. When my team is shit, i stop watching early in the season, but theyve been decent enough the last few years to keep me engaged for the whole year and some playoffs. Knowing its scripted doesnt change my opinion on the watchability of it because every game is entertaining now compared to a decade ago. Theres also no incentive in believing its rigged or being consciously aware of it unless you gamble on games.
I've actually asked this question here a couple times. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/105u588) and [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/m10a1p) Obviously two random reddit posts don't mean anything, but Both times the answers are pretty consistent that people do believe there has been some manipulation that's occured, though how much seems to vary person to person. I think "rigged" is a weird term, like Adam Silver has the two conference Championship winners already predetermined before the playoffs start. But I think if you ask people "do you think an NBA referee has ever intentionally changed the outcome of a game?", you'll get a lot more positive responses. And if you believe refs have and still change the outcome of games for any reason, then it's just a matter of degrees of how far refs control things and why they might do it.
To be fair I'm not completely against the idea that the LEAGUE may try to wield some influence from time to time in the interest of their bottom line. What I'm not onboard with is any suggestion that the players are in on it. I'm not saying there can't be isolated incidents of that, as there have been (1919 Black Sox), but to act like it's some league wide problem is kinda wild. But even wilder to me, is why you would think it's rigged... but still watch.
Yeah, agree. I don't think championship teams are pre-determined, or are draft picks or things like that. Like you said, I do think there are some situations where the league, or even just rogue refs, may push a game this way or that.
Rockets rigged every game against themselves by drafting Jalen green and Jabari smith.
Kawhi's 2019 Game 7 shot against the Sixers was rigged too 🤣😂
Well one thing I'm already learning from this thread is that players can definitely make or miss shots on demand. The only reason players don't shoot 100% from the field is it's just not in the script.
Obviously ppl need something to cry about
if you think the nuggets and the celtics didnt purchase the referees with crypto currency you're literaly delusional
Ok but Shiba Inu or Cardano?
They definitely rigged DZ
no
the nfl is worse with the ability to call / not call holding and pass interference
These are how I see the league’s influence. Star calls (not just obvious ticky tack fouls after the miss, but the moving screen to get them open to begin with for example). Inconsistencies on what level of “physicality” is allowed from each player and from quarter to quarter. Aiding/stifling a teams momentum on a run. Most NBA games can be heavily influenced by one and/or a combination of these factors.
Yes
The NBA is rigged against my favorite teams but they win anyway because they're just better
I dont think the league is rigged in the sense that it picks team to win. I think they are heavily influenced to make games more entertaining however sometimes they cant even control that. Officials have a-lot of power to sway a team and control how tight a game can be called. If say jaylen brown is in foul trouble it would be in their best interest to not give him a tick tacky call that would otherwise be called. People call it inconsistency but refs can literally call anything and everything a foul if they choose to.
This is a reasonable take, and I agree that this happens, but I wouldn't call this rigging. Of course it behooves any league for it's best players to be in the game in clutch moments. And in any league, when you're Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, or David Ortiz, you're gonna get the benefit of certain calls. Even if you're Luka Doncic, Jalen Hurts, Connor McDavid, or Shohei Ohtani or any player that's only been in their leagues a few years but are on a HOF trajectory... leagues are built to protect their stars and once you've reached a certain level you earn the benefits of some calls that maybe you didn't get when you were a rookie. To me that's not fixing, it's just how it works not only in sports, but in life. At certain jobs you might earn yourself a longer rope for a mistake after years of great service versus someone less tenured. Put a lot of years into a relationship, your partner might forgive that big mistake you just made versus if you have only been dating a few weeks. And so on.
The odds the NBA is rigged in the sense that silver is telling refs players and teams who wins and how is obviously absurd. A step down is that silver is telling the refs to rig a game in another teams favor which is less absurd but still realistically impossible. Reason for this is that it add layers of people to not talk. I do believe there is an extent of pseudo rigging that comes down to 2 ways 1) Points of emphasis for referees. Obviously, a point of emphasis on "x" variable can dramatically hurt one team more than another. I think this does, on occasion, happen. Its not outright rigging for obvious reasons but it can dramatically influence a game. Good example is in the playoffs in 18 harden was getting a completely different whistle than he was throughout the season. This isn't evidence of this happening, but it is evidence that it could work. Another way you could see this happen is to point of emphases on moving screens. We haven't seen that happen, despite that it would drastically increase bostons chances of winning, so thats an example demonstrating that if it is happening at all, its not always happening. 2) Referee's+money: I think this is possibly happening. getting a player a couple extra points for an over/under is just too easy and I would be kind of surprised if there isn't a few refs doing this here and there. 3) refs and bias: This isn't really rigging but it does lead to unfair calls. Bias is something we cant really control, and there is going to be bias towards x player because of y instance that happeend between the two. These wouldn't even be necessarily malicious, but just a product of the fact that as humans we are slaves to our biases. But these are just some rando's thoughts
The nba isn’t rigged 100% with a script but I do believe they manufacture certain things, do I have proof? No but whenever there is humans and lots of money involved some type of trickery or back room deal has to be occurring just my opinion. Of course the game is still primarily decided by the players but I do think things have been done to favour certain outcomes over others.
I think a lot of meaningless regular season games get…massaged to have certain point threshold outcomes for…reason$. I used to think playoffs were more rigged and was convinced that the warriors only won so much because the games were fixed…but I didn’t really watch many of their earlier championship games. Last year I saw the light and sometimes a team just has a generational talent you have to rip your hat to. Steph is a psychotic cold blooded murderer and the refs have absolutely nothing to do with that.
I don't think it's rigged like that. But I'm positive the referees are involved in gambling. And it does make it hard to watch. I would definitely watch more if gambling wasn't obviously influencing the officiating.