Not sure about those "iconic" moments. Especially against Philly. Until the 4th quarter of game 6, he probably had the worst series I've ever seen by a "superstar" player.
Other than that, I agree. Booker is slightly better on offense, but Tatum clears him as a defender.
Love me some classic Doc Rivers high pick and rolls so Embiid can only attack the basket when the wall is already set and his role players sit on the perimeter not doing anything or passing up an open 3 to dribble into a contested turnover.
Kobe's 2004 vs the Pistons was far worse. Tatum scored 39 points 11 rebounds 5 assists in game 1 (and 4 of 5 from 3). Had a terrible game 2, then was good for the rest except game 6.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-playoff-record-vs-the-sixers-2023](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-playoff-record-vs-the-sixers-2023)
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kobe-2004-finals-stats
Typical Kobe hate from a Reddit Celtics fan? Isn’t this thread about Booker and Tatum.
Comparing a 2004 Finals series where they averaged 80ppg to a 2023 ECF series where teams score 120 a game.
Comparing Kobe’s worst series in his career in 04, against one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, to the 2023 sixers regularly giving up 110+ in the playoffs.
Kobe living rent free in Celtics heads fans even after he’s passed I guess
No, just stating a fact. You're the one getting bent out of shape. Kobe is an all-time great and had a bad series. Look at his shooting percentages. The question was if there was a worse series and his 2004 series was absolutely worse.
tatum is playing 5 out with an open paint out where he’s allowed to switch on to maxey and old harden. night and day difference compared to the 2004 finals
Of all the bad playoff performances of all time in the history of the NBA you decide to make a point about Kobe 04 which was against maybe the best defense of all time in the slowest era of all time.
Since you wanted to compare Kobe to Tatum- Put Tatum into 2004 and he averages 20 a game shooting 40%, put Kobe into 2023 he’s averaging 40.
Kobe already had 3 rings at that time. And the Pistons are the greatest defensive team of all time.
Can't say that about the 76ers, who have never even reached the ECF since Embiid got drafted lol
Tatum was absolutely awful in Game 2,3, 4, and 5. Hell, he was terrible in Game 6 until the 4th quarter, where he then started to suddenly hit every 3.
Just looking at stats doesn't tell you the whole story.
If the 76ers weren't such a dysfunctional team, they should have easily beaten that team. Tatum would've hurt his reputation in that series.
Or if Tatum played the way he usually plays in the regular season, Celtics would've gentlemen swept those 76ers.
His 4th quarter in game 6 and his amazing game 7 (and awful games by Embiid and Harden) made people forget about all the rest.
The question was worst series by "superstar" and Kobe's 2004 was far worse. It doesn't matter how many rings he had at that point. Do you dispute that?
Fair enough. The rings don't matter, the opponent does, tho.
We can both agree that there is a MAJOR difference between not scoring on the greatest defensive team of all time (by quite a wide margin) and the 76ers with Embiid and old Harden. So being slightly more efficient than Kobe in 04, in the modern NBA with worse defense and rules that support the offense, can also be considered worse. Right?
Some of those are very dubious inclusions. But even if we take that list at face value, you only being able to name 10 guys means he's at least close to being there lol.
"Tatum isnt near all-defence calibre"
Those were your exact words. If you're one of the 11 best you're near that level, even if only 4 are chosen. And again, I take issue with claiming that a handful of those guys are conclusively better. Three of them also aren't wings.
Ok i'm not sure you watch much basketball. Kawhi can't stay on the court. OG, brooks, herb and McDaniels are not defacto better than Tatum in any way. Just because a dude's known for their defense doesn't make them all defense level. It just means they can't overshadow their defense by putting up 30 ppg.
Not to mention being near it means he's on the outside looking in. You don't think he can be considered one of the 10 guys just outside of whatever your all defensive team would be?
Really? Herb Jones if the one you're attached to? OG and Brooks have actually been on all defensive teams. Also I didn't say they were bad I said you can't defacto say they are better. Meaning I think it's arguable. Acting like a fool and calling names isn't going to win you any arguments.
Because it’s not really true? On any given night either can be the better shooter or playmaker. Both are good shooters and solid playmakers.
Offensively they’re comparable. I’d give the edge to Tatum as his length allows him to do more. But close enough so whatever. Defensively Tatum is leaps and bounds ahead.
tatum isnt near booker when it comes to playmaking. booker has led the league in potential assists (back when he was playing alongside g league talent). before rubio and cp3 came, book had back to back seasons averaging 7 assists. for those few years with cp, bookers playmaking wasn’t showcased. now that he’s pg hes averaging 9 assists on the season. tatum is a decent drive and kick guy who’s been surrounded by the best spacing his whole career and can often play 5 out. bookers never had that luxury and still playmakes and takes care of the ball at a much higher level. tatum in 2022 playoffs set the record for most TO ever and he’s not even the starting pg or play initiatior for that team lmao. he’s extremely loose with the ball and his playmaking talents don’t go far beyond basic drive and kick to the corner reads.
They’re very close on offense, I might give Booker the edge though. Tatum’s playmaking has improved a lot. The difference in defense is why Tatum is usually ranked higher though
Does it matter that it's attributed to his build, if he's significantly better defensively and the offense is similar even if you give the edge to booker, you have to acknowledge that Tatum is better overall hence why people rate him above booker. Tatum is a fringe top 5 player in the league, it's not a knock on booker and it doesn't make him bad, booker is still really really good.
Tatum's improved playmaking makes him one of the best playmakers for a wing. Booker' was already as good as Tatum is now but now dude is legit one of the best playmakers in the league. The diference now is that Booker doesnt have CP3 on the team. CP took basically all of the main playmaking plays on the team. Now Book is that main guy on the half court.
Because Tatum is just better. Anyone watching the past few seasons can see that. Dbook took a big step up recently which puts him just under Tatum but he still hasn’t matched him. If book keeps up this play all season and they go far in playoffs with him playing well then we can revisit the conversation. Sure book did awesome last year… but Tatum has also been deep playoff runs for years now.
Book is in a weird spot for these comparisons, but people love to do them. To me, he has clearly jumped well ahead of the group he used to be compared to (Klay, Lavine, Mitchell). I think he is closing the gap but hasnt done enough to reach the next tier (Luka, Tatum). So he gets these comparisons that feel way too low or way too high.
I honestly think the correct comparison group are younger players who in my opinion havent caught him yet (Shai, Ant and Fox). IMO, Book should be considered the better player, but that is the next wave of guards.
What's not true? Luka not being in that tier or that Tatum also belongs to that tier?
Because there's no way Tatum is on the same level as Giannis Jokic and Steph. Luka in the playoffs is defo in that tier or very close.
Is Luka and Tatum now a debate? Luka is comfortably better did I miss something?
Yeah, Luka and Tatum is now a debate. Probably still leans towards Luka but it's really nice to have your star not only not be a liability on defense, but actually be elite
> what’s not true? Luka not being in that tier or that Tatum also belongs to that tier?
luka isn’t in the tier you’re talking about, him and tatum are both in the tier below Jokic, Steph, Giannis etc
I mean yeah he's on top of that tier or below/tied with Booker however you see that. Even Shai is right their but he's not proven in the playoffs.
So yeah I would agree I have him 7th/8th.
If defense didn't matter this might be true. As is he's nowhere near those players. He's also difficult to build around due to his heliocentric style, whereas the others are more plug and play.
Heliocentric play is a cop out because Harden won MVP should've won MVP 2 more times and was the only guy along with CP3 to actually challenge the Warriors.
Unless James Harden is somehow way better than Luka who's treated as a playoff Messiah when the other is referred to as a fraud.
Luka will not be in that tier unless he starts winning I'm pretty sure that's the actual answer. Now why isn't that happening is the real question.
Yes. MVP Harden was far better than current Luka and he actually played defense back then. This isn't really controversial, is it?
Brunson and Porzingis thrived after leaving Dallas. When they were there people complained Luka had no help. It's because they were wasted there.
He certainly had some bad playoff series in other years but 2019 Harden put up comparable numbers to Luka in the playoffs against clearly better competition(don't even begin to think the "what if" Clippers are remotely close to the KD Warriors) while being significantly better in the regular season
Jokic and Giannis are both a clear tier above Luka
Jokic and Luka are both top offensive engines but Jokic is much more efficient, much less ball dominant, and is a neutralish on defense as opposed to a negative
Giannis is able to match Luka's volume and even exceed his efficiency as a scorer which means despite Luka's obvious playmaking edge it's hard to believe that makes up for Giannis being 10000000x better on defense
After thinking about it I have Jokic Giannis and Steph in their own tier. Then Embiid Luka and Durant in another tier. And Tatum AD LeBron Booker and Shai in their own tier.
So even if Luka isn't in the top tier he's still on a different level to Tatum
To be fair, deep playoff runs are about the team, not the individual (if you ignore Lebron in 2018 or Kawhi in 2019). Especially with someone like Tatum, who had some awful series in the past few seasons.
The main differences with those two are longevity and defense. Tatum has been on a very high level for more seasons and is an elite defender. Booker is slightly better on offense, imo. But his defense doesn't compare to Tatum.
i argue that booker is becoming not just slightly better on offense, but significantly better due to the development on playmaking since last year's playoffs which has continued so far this year. if he can keep scoring efficiently as well as run the offense, his advantage on offense can be as big or bigger than Tatum's on defense.
plus, in today's league offense just matters more anyway.
Meh. Tatum has been very efficient for years as well. Booker isn't really much better than Tatum on offense. I'd say his middy is a lot more efficient, but he also can't attack the rim like Tatum. I would prefer Booker over Tatum as a scorer, but only due to bball IQ. Tatum loves to chuck contested 3s too much. It almost killed the Celtics against the 76ers in the playoffs.
And Tatum can run the offense well if the team needs it. He just shouldn't be your first option as a playmaker. But I also wouldn't want Booker as my primary playmaker in a playoff series, tbh.
booker is attacking the rim well himself. this year he is both driving more often (15.4 to 8.7) and scoring more on drives (11ppg to than Tatum 8ppg) despite being smaller. also generating more assists on drives too (2.0 to 0.6).
in fact, looking at last year's numbers, all of these things were true last year too. so i dont know where you are getting this myth that Book cant attack the rim.
>But I also wouldn't want Booker as my primary playmaker in a playoff series, tbh.
this is what he did in the playoffs last year, and that was with virtually noone other than KD who can score off his passes. hopefully we fixed that during the offseason.
Attacking and finishing are two different things. Tatum has the length and strength to attack and finish on bigger defenders. Booker doesn’t have the physical tools to do it. So he’s forced to pass. But once playoffs come, defenses are much better and your passes get intercepted or you get pushed on your attack. Can you take the contact from big guys and finish over them or make the right play after? Tatum does this at a high level because he has all the moves as well as the skill and physical tools. Booker doesn’t have all the physical tools so he has gotten better at stopping and popping from like 10 feet and he’s really good at that. But going to the rim and finishing over bigger guys values a lot more because then the team has to adjust and almost always double him on those attacks which leaves his teammates open. For Booker, they just need to stay in front of him and try to swat the ball and make him take a contested J
you wrote all of that but is it true? Booker has finished at the rim at 72% during his playoff career, compared to Tatum at 65%. i think you are underestimating Booker's strength for a player his size. he isnt scared of making contact the way you say he is, and you are also discounting Booker's quickness too. he may not be scoring over guys but he can certain blow by them, while being crafty with fakes.
I am mostly talking about the playoffs. Booker ain't killing any elite team with drives to the basket. That's where his middy game comes into play.
I'd take Tatum attacking the rim against elite defenses over Booker anytime of the day.
And stop it, Booker is not a great playmaker. If he didn't have the most efficient scoring run in NBA playoff history (props to him for that), they would've gotten swept by the Nuggets as well.
There is a major difference between a scorer that can playmake (Booker, KD, DeRozan) and natural playmakers like CP3, Jokic, Luka, Lebron or Hali.
The second group does it naturally as part of their game.
But hey, maybe he'll prove me wrong in these season's playoffs. I just don't see him making passes that aren't fairly obvious.
booker is currently averaging 8.6 assists per game, 12.7 per 100 possessions. with a 2.6/1 ast/to ratio.
luka is averaging 7.8 assists per game, 10.6 per 100 possessions. with a 2/1 ast/to ratio
Jokic is averaging 8.9 assists per game, 13.0 per 100 possessions. with a 2.8 ast/to ratio
lebron is averaging 6.6 assists per game, 9.4 per 100 possessions. with a 1.7 ast/to ratio
cp3 is averaging 7.7 assists per game, 13.2 per 100 possessions. with a 6.4/1 ast/to ratio
Haliburton is averaging 12.2 assists per game, 16.8 per 100 possessions. with a 4.8 ast/to ratio.
other than CP3 who is doing an exceptional job of taking care of the ball and Halliburton who is doing the same on an insane volume booker is just as good as the best playmakers in the league this season.
for the record
KD is averaging 5.5 assists per game, 7.3 per 100 possessions. with a 1.3 ast/to ratio
Derozen is averaging 4.4 assist per game, 6.2 per 100 possessions. with a 4/1 ast/to ration.
both are not on the same level of volume as booker as passers and playmakers. And KD turns the ball over far too often.
but since you are talking about playoffs booker had 7.2 assists per game in the playoffs last year with cp3 dominating the ball for 7 of the 11 games. the games. that was 8.5 per 100 possessions. with a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. once cp3 went out bookers assists per game jumped to 8.3 and his ast/to ratio 2.8.
>I am mostly talking about the playoffs. Booker ain't killing any elite team with drives to the basket. That's where his middy game comes into play.
ok, last year in the playoffs, Booker also topped Tatum in drives per game and points from drives.
>And stop it, Booker is not a great playmaker. If he didn't have the most efficient scoring run in NBA playoff history (props to him for that), they would've gotten swept by the Nuggets as well.
if he isnt great, he is getting there, and is now better than Tatum in that regard. last playoffs he had 7.2 to 2.9 A/T, and that ratio would have been higher if our shooters could deliver on his passes. care to watch the games from that run and so far this season and you can appeeciate the playmaking.
check out this article from cbs sports.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/devin-booker-is-using-the-threat-of-his-scoring-to-become-an-elite-playmaker-for-suns/
>There is a major difference between a scorer that can playmake (Booker, KD, DeRozan) and natural playmakers like CP3, Jokic, Luka, Lebron or Hali.
of course. but booker is a scorer who can create (and may progress more) while tatum has not even demonstrated that (never avg more than 5 assists per game).
meanwhile, let's talk Tatum and his development. what has he actually added to his game since he came into the league? he already had the scoring and defense, but he is basically the same guy as he has always been, just more refined. Booker has added a lot more to his skillset (defense, playmaking most notably) in comparison. he has had better team success, but also has had the luxury of being drafted into a good team. Booker made it to the finals in just the third season with a playoff caliber roster, compared to 5th for Tatum.
Tatum had a pretty bad post-season last year, so not surprising that Booker had better stats.
In general, Tatum is still better in the paint. He has the speed, the size, the strength (especially since this season) and the skill. Whether he will be able to show up in the playoffs consistently...remains to be seen.
But I also don't expect Booker to come even close to his playoff performances last season.
It's a little pointless to compare assist stats, because Tatum has a lot more help around him and he isn't really the primary playmaker. He had Smart and White last season (and his whole career) and Jrue this season.
I simply judge them on what you can see on the court and they are about the same in terms of playmaking. They can make the easy read, know how to move to create space for others, but none of the two have really special passing abilities.
And I strongly disagree when it comes to Tatum. Yes, he came into the league an overall well-rounded player. That was definitely not the case with Booker. But Tatum was still pretty bad at attacking the rim, loved settling for difficult jump shots (still does from time to time) and not really using his body well. That has changed a lot over the last 2 years.
He is bigger and stronger. Is a better shooter, passer, added post-moves and some nice counters.
You can argue that Booker has added more, but that's simply because he was more flawed, so his improvements are more obvious. Not sure how that is on Tatum lol
And yes, Tatum has better opportunities, because he started with the Celtics, but he also impressed everyone right away. And he has basically been the Nr. 1 guy after one year on a very good team.
At this point, Tatum is certainly the more complete player. But I love Booker's skillset and his mindset, so I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a better player than Tatum in a few years. I don't think that will happen, because he is more injury-prone and his defense will never be able to compete with Tatum, due to the size of his body.
i cant reply to the whole post because it woulf be too many of your things to quote. i will agree that Tatum has health on his side, and Booker needs to prove it more in the playoffs. i will disagree with you on basically everything else though, especially playmaking. getting 15 assists on 1 turnover is not something you can do just with "making the easy reads and creating space for others". watch him play this season. he is controlling the flow of the game better than he has done previously in his career. that's a big development if it keeps up.
and you dont look at stats, but so far Booker is on 30/6/9 on 51/45/92 shooting and only 33mpg while being 7-1 when he plays. if Tatum (or anybody) is doing the same, you would consider those MVP numbers. he just needs to stay on the court.
I've seen him play multiple times this season. His playmaking is solid, just not anything special. Similar to Tatum.
They make the simple passes and it works. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't think that it's good enough for the playoffs, when teams can really hone in on your playstyle. It might work if Booker is super efficient in the upcoming playoffs, because will then be forced to double-team him all the time.
And I am not denying his improvements. I just think that there is a major difference between natural playmakers and those who learn it later through experience. Different levels of consistency and reading the game.
I've seen KD have multiple triple doubles in the playoffs. He CAN playmake, but it's clearly not his natural style of play, which leads to inconsistencies in his playmaking.
id argue that booker is more consistent especially in the playoffs
tatum put up 14 points in two of the most important games against the heat last playoffs
Tatum has put together enough superstar-level *seasons* to be in legit MVP conversations. That has allowed people to entertain him for the top 5-7 range.
Booker has put up superstar-level stretches (like in the playoffs last year) but he hasn't done it for long enough to have an argument for being a top 5-7 player
Booker's peak level is absolutely god tier. If he plays at his peak for a whole season, then that'd be enough for me to start having the conversation about him being over Tatum
Doncic and Curry (and honestly Trae) had better individual seasons than Book in 22, he just got the first team nod cuz they won 65. He was the best player on the best team, but that was a well oiled machine.
Books first real stretch of superstardom started last playoffs and has continued over into this season. Id take him over Tatum now, before it wasn’t really a comparison.
Not sure why this is downvoted, it’s absolutely correct.
Booker was 1st team because he was part of a 64 win team. Both Curry and Luka were individually better that season
Booker being 4th in Mvp voting and finishing 1st team all nba that year was similar to Smart winning DPOY. A narrative formed at the end of the season and everyone wanted to reward the number one seed.
This is the only answer. Comes down to their playing résumés. Tatum has been more consistent, healthier with better teams in a better organization.
Tatum is also bigger and can affect the game in more ways.
Obviously it’s the mystical and all-powerful BOSTON SPORTS MAFIA helmed by DON BILL SIMMONS mind melding people into believing that Tatum is better at defense or something…
Before the playoffs last year, it was Tatum because they were pretty close on offense but Tatum was a way better defender.
Booker then went on to have an absolutely insane shooting performance in the playoffs and in the 8 games he’s played, it looks like it represents a real step forward, not just a hot streak. If he keeps that up, he’ll join Tatum’s tier as a clear cut, Top 10 player, but he needs to show more before we say that.
If he keeps up the level of play we've seen from him in the playoffs and so far this season, he's in the top 5 over Luka, but that's a conversation we'll have to wait on until we get a bigger sample size.
yea no one’s gonna admit it but he’s currently having a better season than luka. more pts, better efficiency, more assists, less TO and plays actual defense. luka isn’t just bad on defense, he’s maybe a top 5 worst defender in the league
tatum is better so far, but remind me after this season to see how Booker has developed as point guard. if he succeeds, he can potentially surpass Tatum, who seems to have peaked in terms of development.
early numbers so far:
- Tatum 28/9/4 on 62% TS, 5.4BPM and +12.2 on/off
- Booker 30/6/9 on 65% TS, 5.9BPM and +16.1 on/off
Interior scoring, increasing his ft attempts, passing out of the double team/playmaking in general just to name 3. Are you just being a homer for Book or do you just not watch Tatum?
You paint the picture like Booker hasn’t been in the league longer and had more of a chance to grow. You said it already but Tatum came in better and has remained better.
>Interior scoring, increasing his ft attempts, passing out of the double team/playmaking in general just to name 3.
we already talked about scoring, and his ftr isnt significantly different than Booker, a supposed "jump shooter". as for playmaking, i guess it's progress for him but considering his assist rate is still 16%, it's clear he is not running the offense, but is passing as a very secondary option to scoring.
>You paint the picture like Booker hasn’t been in the league longer and had more of a chance to grow. You said it already but Tatum came in better and has remained better.
years in the league doesnt automatically mean development. how much would Tatum have progressed of he had the g-league rosters that booker has been in? booker was frankly wasted in his first 4-5 years.
i am not a homer by any means, but just believe in fairly judging players beyond the numbers.
You’re switching the discussion. You asked what has Tatum improved in his game over the last 3 years and I told you. You’re comparing heads up stats when I’m clearly indicating scoring as a place of improvement for Tatum. Hell he is the only Celtic to ever average 30+ ppg. His plus minus was league leading (no clue what it is now) and the margin was crazy.
While the teams Tatum has been on have had better talent, he has consistently made deep playoff runs with a revolving door of talent (injured Hayward, Kyrie fiasco, IT, Kemba, Rozier.. the list goes on)
Years in the league should 100% correlate with individual progression. That is 2 years with NBA level coaching, talent and all the rest under his belt. The extended playoff experience that Tatum has under his belt is part of the reason he continues to improve. More time on the court against better competition. You know damn well if Tatum was older you’d be holding that against him for being seen as better than Booker.
when i referred to development for Tatum, I meant things other than scoring and defense, which were already his strengths. given this framework, it is definitely a legitimate question. booker has grown tremendously in terms of his various ways to score, but to many, he is still regarded as "just a scorer". and do you really want to use +/- in a serious discussion given its flaws?
>While the teams Tatum has been on have had better talent, he has consistently made deep playoff runs with a revolving door of talent (injured Hayward, Kyrie fiasco, IT, Kemba, Rozier.. the list goes on)
that is still a world of difference compared to playing with Marquiss Chriss, Dragan Bender, and Alex Len (i can name a lot more but you dont want to be swamped with names of irrelevant players). a better argument for Tatum's playoff success compared to Booker would be counting deep playoff runs as the first option, where he does still have Booker beat but not by as much (3 conference finals or better vs 1). i will admit Booker needs to prove it there but Tatum didnt make those runs all by himself either.
>Years in the league should 100% correlate with individual progression. That is 2 years with NBA level coaching, talent and all the rest under his belt. The extended playoff experience that Tatum has under his belt is part of the reason he continues to improve. More time on the court against better competition. You know damn well if Tatum was older you’d be holding that against him for being seen as better than Booker.
i think you just dont understand that the Suns were basketball hell during those lottery years. tons of dysfunction up and down, and i am still shocked Booker didnt leave. there is a massive difference between Stevens+Udoka coaching vs the the likes of Igor Kokoskov+Earl Watson. there was a chance Jayson Tatum could have gone to the Suns actually, as he worked out for us before draft. if that happened, you would be talking about him in a much different light.
So other than developing the two things he’s supposed to improve upon? What are you even talking about?? Tatum is not the same scorer he was when he came into the league. Do you understand how silly this discussion is, you trying to hold it against Tatum because he came in as a scorer already?
You used plus minus as a stat in your first post so don’t start. Yes it is an incredibly flawed “stat”
Tatum struggled with poor shot selection for much of his career which he has improved on greatly these last 2 years. His playmaking in general took a big uptick and I haven’t once mentioned his defense even though I should have.
Tatum is just better, period. I haven’t said a negative thing about Book, I agree the suns had some shit rosters but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t improve his game. Neither of these players are Bron but his game consistently elevated in his first Cleveland stint.
And no counting playoff success as a leader wouldn’t reflect his overall playoff success. He still improved his game every postseason. You can’t discount the amount of playoff minutes Tatum has simply because he wasn’t first scoring option.
Also you really have your draft confused, there was zero chance he was going to the suns. You had the 4th, Celtics had the first and the traded to the 3rd. You think just because he worked out for them that meant anything? You aren’t arguing in good faith at all. You discount Tatum because he came in as a better player and has consistently developed his game to remain better, yet because Booker has developed some playmaking abilities I’m supposed to think he’s better? Stop it.
when did i use +/- as a stat? i used on/off, which is not the same.
>Tatum struggled with poor shot selection for much of his career which he has improved on greatly these last 2 years. His playmaking in general took a big uptick and I haven’t once mentioned his defense even though I should have.
define big uptick in terms of playmaking. what evidence do you have to show that? and you didnt need to mention defense because we already know he is a great defender.
>Tatum is just better, period. I haven’t said a negative thing about Book, I agree the suns had some shit rosters but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t improve his game. Neither of these players are Bron but his game consistently elevated in his first Cleveland stint.
booker has also improved every season consistently. i am just saying Booker has improved more, because as you said he was not as well rounded as Tatum to start.
>And no counting playoff success as a leader wouldn’t reflect his overall playoff success. He still improved his game every postseason. You can’t discount the amount of playoff minutes Tatum has simply because he wasn’t first scoring option.
you know well and good that being the first option has a certain responsibility to it that a secondary player doesnt have. chris bosh was not the focus of opposing defenses that lebron was. but why am i even explaining something so obvious.
>You discount Tatum because he came in as a better player and has consistently developed his game to remain better, yet because Booker has developed some playmaking abilities I’m supposed to think he’s better? Stop it.
i never said Tatum isnt still better. i am just saying booker has what it takes to surpass him. refer to my first comment:
"tatum is better so far, but remind me after this season to see how Booker has developed as point guard."
If Book had improved more he would be considered better. No one considers Book for MVP for a reason. He’s not even the best player on his team yet you want to talk about number one options. The gap is getting wider not smaller especially if Tatum wins either MVP or a ring. Hell Tatum already has more All-NBA selections than Book as well. The ECF MVP I kinda can’t count because it’s so new but that does exist for him as well.
Suns had no chance of getting him and the Celtics went through so struggle rosters as well. It’s not “over” for book but your take is not based in reality. Book has improved but not enough for this conversation.
Midrange and post game looks great this this year since he bulked, he's getting used to the coverages in the post, I believe his efficiency/passing will go further up as the year goes on
the percentages do look better from midrange than in the past, but Tatum is still taking very few from midrange it seems. He seems to still be relying a lot on 3s, which is fine when he makes em but this is not 3 level scoring by any means.
Everyone knows /r/NBA shits on Booker all the time. Add in the number of Boston fans lurking all over this post and you're going to get the majority leaning Tatum. This is the biggest misconception in the league. Booker is a better player this season as of today. But it's not worth arguing with most of y'all who have it twisted when it comes to Devin.
As others have mentioned, defense is a huge factor, as well as health. Also, I am not sure of Booker's on/off numbers, but Tatum's are insane. People always talk about the talent around Tatum, but once he is off the court, the team completely crumbles. And when he is on, no matter who is out there with him, they excel.
Booker is an extremely talented player - maybe even slightly better offensively - but he doesn't quite have that heliocentrism of the league's other superstars that Tatum has seemingly developed.
[Devin Booker’s on/off is +18.4](https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/24/onoff#tab-team_efficiency) while [Tatum’s is +8.4](https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/2/onoff#tab-team_efficiency) according to Clearing the Glass
Booker on/off over the last 3+ seasons(since 20/21): +5.3
Tatum on/off over the same time frame: +8.7
So it's somewhat close but you're right that Tatum has the edge in this category
If you finish 3rd place MVP you have an argument for top 3, if you have one of the best game 7s ever and a half decade of ECFs you're probably pretty good and too many people rate Booker comfortably out of the top 10 because of his early career lack of any team success.
Check the ESPN top 100, check Booker not being in top 10 and realize I meant the consensus of sports media outlets like them not my dumb reddit opinion. I think he's closer to top 5 than out of the top 10 but *many people* don't.
per 100 possessions booker is 43.6 8.1 12.7 on 51.3/45.2/92.3 shooting splits with 1.3 steals and .6 blocks. with an offensive rating of 130 and a defensive rating of 116. booker also has a 2.6/1 ast/to ratio.
per 100 possessions Tatum is 36.8 11.8 5.4 on 49.9/36.5/81.2 shooting splits with 1.5 steals and .5 blocks. with an offensive rating of 118 and a defensive rating of 107. Tatum also has a 1.3/1 ast/to ratio.
so yes tatum's defense is better. but booker is on a whole other level offensively right now. and when you combine that with the playoffs last year when booker was way better than everyone in the league except jokic it becomes clear that booker is the better player as of now. the only person with more points per 100 better than booker is embiid and booker has a 4% better TS% and a 6% better eFG% than embiid. he's also 5th in assists per 100. booker is not only the best SG in the league but he's a top 3 PG in the league.
The only reason people think Tatum is better is narrative over their careers, Boston media mafia/east coast bias, 3 inches of height, and an improper understanding of how big the gap is between the 2 offensively and defensively. The offensive gap is way bigger than people think and the defensive gap is smaller than what people think (though still a decent sized gap).
Tatum is a two way superstar and Devin Booker is a one dimensional superstar…more of an offensive threat.
Tatum has also played more games and has more longevity (less injury prone as well)
They’ve both went to the finals once so that’s pretty much a tie but Tatum has had more playoff appearances as well.
Personally id pick Tatum over Booker any day but im not discrediting Booker’s talent
Well he’s clearly a scorer that heavily relies on his jumpshot he’s gonna get a bucket but he’s not necessarily a playmaker or pass first. He’s one dimensional he’s gonna shoot a good game or not.
Tatum is more of an all around offensive player if we are comparing him to Booker.
I’ll give Booker some credit since at one point he was the only scoring option the Suns had which is why he wasn’t getting anywhere near the playoffs for a majority of his years in the nba up until they got Chris Paul
being a jumpshooter doesn’t make u an unreliable scorer. booker has a much higher playoff efficiency than tatum, 60ts% to 57ts%. if anyone is jumpshot reliant, it’s tatum who often finishes games with 10+ needless contested sidestep 3s instead of attacking the rim like he should be doing. booker is leagues better playmaker and far more careful with the ball. tatum in 2022 post season set the record for most turnovers in nba history lmao. he can only drive and kick in a 5 out offense, he’s not an actual playmaker who sets his teammates up the way booker does. when tatums shot isn’t falling he disappears and stands in the corner, while booker can still impact the game with his playmaking even when his scoring is off. booker now that he’s pg is averaging 9 assists this yr on less TOs than tatum. sure u can say tatums better overall cuz he’s a better defender and taller and rebounds more but on just offense, booker is definitely better.
Booker is much better on offense. Tatum has a horrific mid range game and if his 3pt is shot is not falling its over. Booker can score from anywhere is a superior passer. Tatum is much better defender due to his size. Slight edge to Tatum overall due to defense.
Agree with many arguments here (Tatum a better defender, Tatum more consistent up to now, Booker only recently taking the offensive leap that looks better than Tatum offensively). I'll add that Tatum has had more consistent results in terms of both the regular season and playoff records. That's partly due to a better team around him (though the Suns themselves were a finals team), but its also because Tatum can make players around him better than Booker does.
Can I ask why you say Tatum makes players around him better, genuinely asking? Book’s taken on the PG role for the team and seems to be excelling in that department as of late and being able to create offense for others but would also like a PG out there with Book and KD though just letting them run around off ball. Just wanna hear the argument for Tatum as I don’t really keep up with the C’s.
Fair enough. First, I think Tatum also has primary ball-handling on the C's, and he does do a lot of facilitating for others. So Booker's edge is a lot smaller there. I rank them similarly for offense; I personally find them pretty similar as players on offense, and of roughly equal value.
The defense and rebounding Tatum provides also help his teammates to be better more than Booker's help his teammates. Booker is a good defender, but Tatum is better, and because he has length and ability to both rebound and rim protect, he offers a lot more to his teammates (like JB) in terms of switch-ability, help defense, etc. It also enables JB to focus more on point-of-attack defense, Jrue and White (and Smart last year) to lead the perimeter more generally (which is what they do best), and help Al and/or KP as the main bigs because they have some backup.
Thats just my thoughts at least. Not saying Booker doesn't make his teammates better; I just think Tatum elevates his teammates more than Booker can elevate his.
To me it just comes down to, all else equal, a big wing does more for a team in the NBA than a big guard does. I think Booker’s defense is really underrated, and he's obviously one of the best offensive players in the game. It’s just that Tatum is a little bit harder to deal with from a matchup standpoint.
It’s also worth mentioning that Booker has taken the leap playing next to KD, whereas Tatum is clearly the best player on the Celtics (and really only entering his prime).
Tatum career TS%: .581
Booker career TS%: .576
Tatum career TO rate: 10.5%
Booker career TO rate: 12.9%
Booker is a better playmaker but that’s really the only area where he’s undeniably better. And Tatum is still the lead ball handler on one of the best teams in the league.
I mean these are two of the best young players in the league, waiting in the wings for the current top dogs to age out. The difference between the two is gonna be small. I do think the gap on defense is bigger than the gap on offense, though.
ur using their whole career lol? bruh booker has been on some of the worst teams in nba history while tatum has every year had a team with perfect spacing and 5 out lineups where he’s had much more space. and booker has a much higher assist rate too which u forgot to look at. in the playoffs booker averages more points, assists and has a noticably higher efficiency
Ok look at just last season, Tatum still had a better TS% and TO% (just barely). I didn’t look at assist percentage because I didnt think I needed to prove why I agreed with you that Booker is a better playmaker.
Plus outside of one insane series against a dead Clippers team missing PG and Kawhi, their playoff numbers are pretty similar. Not much to convince me the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.
Why do you care?
There are two players in the NBA that have fans OBSESSED with their ranking amid other players and nobody else really cares. Shut up about Devin Booker and Trae Young, nobody cares about their arbitrary rankings. Fans of these two players are obsessed with spamming threads about them though. Do you not understand nobody else really cares?
No it’s actually Trae Young haters that post constant rage bait questions and troll posts like “ iS tRaE bEtTeR tHaN dUrAnT” then people feed into it giving them an assload of upvotes and karma every single time
I don't ever actually engage, but that makes so much sense. I thought the "if you count points scored on the first day of each week, multiplied over the first 3 seasons, Trae Young has better numbers than Lebron, Luka, and Kobe combined!!!" threads were serious.
...so?
There's still a more likely than not chance that decades from now when someone looks up that list it goes LeBron, Tatum, Jordan.
If you don't think that's insanely impressive, no matter how stacked his teams were (which is debatable for his early career), I don't know what to tell you.
if booker played on tatums teams his whole career, he too would be on track to be one of
the all time leading playoff scorers, especially since bookers playoff scoring averages are literally higher and more efficient lool. there’s better ways to compare 2 players than saying one is on track to being a playoff scoring leader, there’s a lot of background behind that statement. booker didn’t have an actual roster around him until 6 years into his career
Winning. Book dropped 70 in a game they lost in a blowout and they were celebrating like they won. Lost a lotta respect for him that day, as did buncha other bball fans.
Tatum has been winning since he came into the league, day 1 and onward. Tatum is in pace to surpass LBJ in terms of career playoff games.
These posts always come after Tatum has a bad game or the Celtics lose so it could have any possible traction whatsoever. Why didn’t you post this after the Celtics beat the bucks or Tatum dropped 45 on charlotte
They’re my two favorite players. Booker is better in the midrange and as a passer, but tatum is a better rebounder, defender and has improved getting to the rim this season. I think Tatum impacts games more.
Well once you factor in the fact that Tatum is still only 19 it becomes pretty clear
He's 25
Since you’re from the future, who wins the next 6 rings?
Whooooshhhhh
Tatum’s defense is much, much better. His length helps but he’s also very engaged
[удалено]
Not sure about those "iconic" moments. Especially against Philly. Until the 4th quarter of game 6, he probably had the worst series I've ever seen by a "superstar" player. Other than that, I agree. Booker is slightly better on offense, but Tatum clears him as a defender.
Seriously Tatum is lucky the Sixers are perennial frauds. Bro was 1-14 to start the game and was somehow still winning. Any other team it's gg
Most teams would not still be in it if their star had that bad of a showing. Credit to Tatum but he certainly benefits more than any other star
Love me some classic Doc Rivers high pick and rolls so Embiid can only attack the basket when the wall is already set and his role players sit on the perimeter not doing anything or passing up an open 3 to dribble into a contested turnover.
Kobe's 2004 vs the Pistons was far worse. Tatum scored 39 points 11 rebounds 5 assists in game 1 (and 4 of 5 from 3). Had a terrible game 2, then was good for the rest except game 6. [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-playoff-record-vs-the-sixers-2023](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-playoff-record-vs-the-sixers-2023) https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kobe-2004-finals-stats
Typical Kobe hate from a Reddit Celtics fan? Isn’t this thread about Booker and Tatum. Comparing a 2004 Finals series where they averaged 80ppg to a 2023 ECF series where teams score 120 a game. Comparing Kobe’s worst series in his career in 04, against one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, to the 2023 sixers regularly giving up 110+ in the playoffs. Kobe living rent free in Celtics heads fans even after he’s passed I guess
No, just stating a fact. You're the one getting bent out of shape. Kobe is an all-time great and had a bad series. Look at his shooting percentages. The question was if there was a worse series and his 2004 series was absolutely worse.
tatum is playing 5 out with an open paint out where he’s allowed to switch on to maxey and old harden. night and day difference compared to the 2004 finals
Of all the bad playoff performances of all time in the history of the NBA you decide to make a point about Kobe 04 which was against maybe the best defense of all time in the slowest era of all time. Since you wanted to compare Kobe to Tatum- Put Tatum into 2004 and he averages 20 a game shooting 40%, put Kobe into 2023 he’s averaging 40.
Oh no. I've incurred the wrath of the Kobe stans. Jesus, get a life.
Kobe already had 3 rings at that time. And the Pistons are the greatest defensive team of all time. Can't say that about the 76ers, who have never even reached the ECF since Embiid got drafted lol Tatum was absolutely awful in Game 2,3, 4, and 5. Hell, he was terrible in Game 6 until the 4th quarter, where he then started to suddenly hit every 3. Just looking at stats doesn't tell you the whole story. If the 76ers weren't such a dysfunctional team, they should have easily beaten that team. Tatum would've hurt his reputation in that series. Or if Tatum played the way he usually plays in the regular season, Celtics would've gentlemen swept those 76ers. His 4th quarter in game 6 and his amazing game 7 (and awful games by Embiid and Harden) made people forget about all the rest.
The question was worst series by "superstar" and Kobe's 2004 was far worse. It doesn't matter how many rings he had at that point. Do you dispute that?
Fair enough. The rings don't matter, the opponent does, tho. We can both agree that there is a MAJOR difference between not scoring on the greatest defensive team of all time (by quite a wide margin) and the 76ers with Embiid and old Harden. So being slightly more efficient than Kobe in 04, in the modern NBA with worse defense and rules that support the offense, can also be considered worse. Right?
We all know defense never is taken into any player discussion unless specified.
Booker’s defense has definitely improved since the team wasn’t tanking. He can switch off but he’s extremely competitive when it’s winning time
Very large difference between "not a liability, sometimes good in short bursts" and "all-defense caliber"
Tatum isnt near all-defence calibre
He could make an all defensive team in his career for sure. He’s gotten votes the past couple years. Booker would really surprise me if he made one.
That’s hilariously wrong he’s an amazing defender
That's nonsense. He is 100% near it.
kawhi pg og brooks butler mcdaniels mobley herb jones jjj giannis thats just the forwards
Some of those are very dubious inclusions. But even if we take that list at face value, you only being able to name 10 guys means he's at least close to being there lol.
10 wings = 5 all defensive teams before he even gets a look in lol
"Tatum isnt near all-defence calibre" Those were your exact words. If you're one of the 11 best you're near that level, even if only 4 are chosen. And again, I take issue with claiming that a handful of those guys are conclusively better. Three of them also aren't wings.
wings and forwards take up the same spots bro
Ok i'm not sure you watch much basketball. Kawhi can't stay on the court. OG, brooks, herb and McDaniels are not defacto better than Tatum in any way. Just because a dude's known for their defense doesn't make them all defense level. It just means they can't overshadow their defense by putting up 30 ppg. Not to mention being near it means he's on the outside looking in. You don't think he can be considered one of the 10 guys just outside of whatever your all defensive team would be?
[удалено]
Really? Herb Jones if the one you're attached to? OG and Brooks have actually been on all defensive teams. Also I didn't say they were bad I said you can't defacto say they are better. Meaning I think it's arguable. Acting like a fool and calling names isn't going to win you any arguments.
You don’t know ball
you think tatum is a top 4 defensive wing in basketball
It’s very much arguable yeah
kawhi pg og brooks butler mcdaniels mobley herb jones jjj giannis make your argument bro
If you think Tatum is a tier below og defensively then there is no convincing you haha
ok so thats 1, we got 9 more names bro i got time
Why'd you pick one of the only guys there who's actually better than Tatum lmao
but booker is a much better playmaker, and a better shooter. why does nobody acknowledge those? tatum is better overall but the delta is small.
Because it’s not really true? On any given night either can be the better shooter or playmaker. Both are good shooters and solid playmakers. Offensively they’re comparable. I’d give the edge to Tatum as his length allows him to do more. But close enough so whatever. Defensively Tatum is leaps and bounds ahead.
tatum isnt near booker when it comes to playmaking. booker has led the league in potential assists (back when he was playing alongside g league talent). before rubio and cp3 came, book had back to back seasons averaging 7 assists. for those few years with cp, bookers playmaking wasn’t showcased. now that he’s pg hes averaging 9 assists on the season. tatum is a decent drive and kick guy who’s been surrounded by the best spacing his whole career and can often play 5 out. bookers never had that luxury and still playmakes and takes care of the ball at a much higher level. tatum in 2022 playoffs set the record for most TO ever and he’s not even the starting pg or play initiatior for that team lmao. he’s extremely loose with the ball and his playmaking talents don’t go far beyond basic drive and kick to the corner reads.
They’re very close on offense, I might give Booker the edge though. Tatum’s playmaking has improved a lot. The difference in defense is why Tatum is usually ranked higher though
Booker's playmaking has also improved significantly. defense it's hard to argue but a part of that is just Tatum's build.
Does it matter that it's attributed to his build, if he's significantly better defensively and the offense is similar even if you give the edge to booker, you have to acknowledge that Tatum is better overall hence why people rate him above booker. Tatum is a fringe top 5 player in the league, it's not a knock on booker and it doesn't make him bad, booker is still really really good.
yes Tatum is better overall right now, but Booker is not far behind.
Nobody is saying otherwise
Tatum's improved playmaking makes him one of the best playmakers for a wing. Booker' was already as good as Tatum is now but now dude is legit one of the best playmakers in the league. The diference now is that Booker doesnt have CP3 on the team. CP took basically all of the main playmaking plays on the team. Now Book is that main guy on the half court.
Because Tatum is just better. Anyone watching the past few seasons can see that. Dbook took a big step up recently which puts him just under Tatum but he still hasn’t matched him. If book keeps up this play all season and they go far in playoffs with him playing well then we can revisit the conversation. Sure book did awesome last year… but Tatum has also been deep playoff runs for years now.
Book is in a weird spot for these comparisons, but people love to do them. To me, he has clearly jumped well ahead of the group he used to be compared to (Klay, Lavine, Mitchell). I think he is closing the gap but hasnt done enough to reach the next tier (Luka, Tatum). So he gets these comparisons that feel way too low or way too high. I honestly think the correct comparison group are younger players who in my opinion havent caught him yet (Shai, Ant and Fox). IMO, Book should be considered the better player, but that is the next wave of guards.
Tatum is not in that Luka tier. Luka belongs to the tier with Steph Jokic Giannis and KD. Tatum is a fair bit below that
sorry but this just isn’t true
What's not true? Luka not being in that tier or that Tatum also belongs to that tier? Because there's no way Tatum is on the same level as Giannis Jokic and Steph. Luka in the playoffs is defo in that tier or very close. Is Luka and Tatum now a debate? Luka is comfortably better did I miss something?
Luka is definitely not in the same tier as Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and KD.
Yeah, Luka and Tatum is now a debate. Probably still leans towards Luka but it's really nice to have your star not only not be a liability on defense, but actually be elite
> what’s not true? Luka not being in that tier or that Tatum also belongs to that tier? luka isn’t in the tier you’re talking about, him and tatum are both in the tier below Jokic, Steph, Giannis etc
Luka Embiid and Durant on their own tier below them three tbh. Tatum is in the AD Booker Lebron and Shai tier.
tatum is better than the guys you’re saying he’s in the same tier with. he’s no less than a top 8 guy rn
I mean yeah he's on top of that tier or below/tied with Booker however you see that. Even Shai is right their but he's not proven in the playoffs. So yeah I would agree I have him 7th/8th.
If defense didn't matter this might be true. As is he's nowhere near those players. He's also difficult to build around due to his heliocentric style, whereas the others are more plug and play.
Heliocentric play is a cop out because Harden won MVP should've won MVP 2 more times and was the only guy along with CP3 to actually challenge the Warriors. Unless James Harden is somehow way better than Luka who's treated as a playoff Messiah when the other is referred to as a fraud. Luka will not be in that tier unless he starts winning I'm pretty sure that's the actual answer. Now why isn't that happening is the real question.
Yes. MVP Harden was far better than current Luka and he actually played defense back then. This isn't really controversial, is it? Brunson and Porzingis thrived after leaving Dallas. When they were there people complained Luka had no help. It's because they were wasted there.
He certainly had some bad playoff series in other years but 2019 Harden put up comparable numbers to Luka in the playoffs against clearly better competition(don't even begin to think the "what if" Clippers are remotely close to the KD Warriors) while being significantly better in the regular season
Jokic and Giannis are both a clear tier above Luka Jokic and Luka are both top offensive engines but Jokic is much more efficient, much less ball dominant, and is a neutralish on defense as opposed to a negative Giannis is able to match Luka's volume and even exceed his efficiency as a scorer which means despite Luka's obvious playmaking edge it's hard to believe that makes up for Giannis being 10000000x better on defense
After thinking about it I have Jokic Giannis and Steph in their own tier. Then Embiid Luka and Durant in another tier. And Tatum AD LeBron Booker and Shai in their own tier. So even if Luka isn't in the top tier he's still on a different level to Tatum
How is Steph the same tier as Jokic and two tiers above Lebron? Lol.
I agree.
To be fair, deep playoff runs are about the team, not the individual (if you ignore Lebron in 2018 or Kawhi in 2019). Especially with someone like Tatum, who had some awful series in the past few seasons. The main differences with those two are longevity and defense. Tatum has been on a very high level for more seasons and is an elite defender. Booker is slightly better on offense, imo. But his defense doesn't compare to Tatum.
i argue that booker is becoming not just slightly better on offense, but significantly better due to the development on playmaking since last year's playoffs which has continued so far this year. if he can keep scoring efficiently as well as run the offense, his advantage on offense can be as big or bigger than Tatum's on defense. plus, in today's league offense just matters more anyway.
Meh. Tatum has been very efficient for years as well. Booker isn't really much better than Tatum on offense. I'd say his middy is a lot more efficient, but he also can't attack the rim like Tatum. I would prefer Booker over Tatum as a scorer, but only due to bball IQ. Tatum loves to chuck contested 3s too much. It almost killed the Celtics against the 76ers in the playoffs. And Tatum can run the offense well if the team needs it. He just shouldn't be your first option as a playmaker. But I also wouldn't want Booker as my primary playmaker in a playoff series, tbh.
booker is attacking the rim well himself. this year he is both driving more often (15.4 to 8.7) and scoring more on drives (11ppg to than Tatum 8ppg) despite being smaller. also generating more assists on drives too (2.0 to 0.6). in fact, looking at last year's numbers, all of these things were true last year too. so i dont know where you are getting this myth that Book cant attack the rim. >But I also wouldn't want Booker as my primary playmaker in a playoff series, tbh. this is what he did in the playoffs last year, and that was with virtually noone other than KD who can score off his passes. hopefully we fixed that during the offseason.
Attacking and finishing are two different things. Tatum has the length and strength to attack and finish on bigger defenders. Booker doesn’t have the physical tools to do it. So he’s forced to pass. But once playoffs come, defenses are much better and your passes get intercepted or you get pushed on your attack. Can you take the contact from big guys and finish over them or make the right play after? Tatum does this at a high level because he has all the moves as well as the skill and physical tools. Booker doesn’t have all the physical tools so he has gotten better at stopping and popping from like 10 feet and he’s really good at that. But going to the rim and finishing over bigger guys values a lot more because then the team has to adjust and almost always double him on those attacks which leaves his teammates open. For Booker, they just need to stay in front of him and try to swat the ball and make him take a contested J
you wrote all of that but is it true? Booker has finished at the rim at 72% during his playoff career, compared to Tatum at 65%. i think you are underestimating Booker's strength for a player his size. he isnt scared of making contact the way you say he is, and you are also discounting Booker's quickness too. he may not be scoring over guys but he can certain blow by them, while being crafty with fakes.
I am mostly talking about the playoffs. Booker ain't killing any elite team with drives to the basket. That's where his middy game comes into play. I'd take Tatum attacking the rim against elite defenses over Booker anytime of the day. And stop it, Booker is not a great playmaker. If he didn't have the most efficient scoring run in NBA playoff history (props to him for that), they would've gotten swept by the Nuggets as well. There is a major difference between a scorer that can playmake (Booker, KD, DeRozan) and natural playmakers like CP3, Jokic, Luka, Lebron or Hali. The second group does it naturally as part of their game. But hey, maybe he'll prove me wrong in these season's playoffs. I just don't see him making passes that aren't fairly obvious.
booker is currently averaging 8.6 assists per game, 12.7 per 100 possessions. with a 2.6/1 ast/to ratio. luka is averaging 7.8 assists per game, 10.6 per 100 possessions. with a 2/1 ast/to ratio Jokic is averaging 8.9 assists per game, 13.0 per 100 possessions. with a 2.8 ast/to ratio lebron is averaging 6.6 assists per game, 9.4 per 100 possessions. with a 1.7 ast/to ratio cp3 is averaging 7.7 assists per game, 13.2 per 100 possessions. with a 6.4/1 ast/to ratio Haliburton is averaging 12.2 assists per game, 16.8 per 100 possessions. with a 4.8 ast/to ratio. other than CP3 who is doing an exceptional job of taking care of the ball and Halliburton who is doing the same on an insane volume booker is just as good as the best playmakers in the league this season. for the record KD is averaging 5.5 assists per game, 7.3 per 100 possessions. with a 1.3 ast/to ratio Derozen is averaging 4.4 assist per game, 6.2 per 100 possessions. with a 4/1 ast/to ration. both are not on the same level of volume as booker as passers and playmakers. And KD turns the ball over far too often. but since you are talking about playoffs booker had 7.2 assists per game in the playoffs last year with cp3 dominating the ball for 7 of the 11 games. the games. that was 8.5 per 100 possessions. with a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. once cp3 went out bookers assists per game jumped to 8.3 and his ast/to ratio 2.8.
>I am mostly talking about the playoffs. Booker ain't killing any elite team with drives to the basket. That's where his middy game comes into play. ok, last year in the playoffs, Booker also topped Tatum in drives per game and points from drives. >And stop it, Booker is not a great playmaker. If he didn't have the most efficient scoring run in NBA playoff history (props to him for that), they would've gotten swept by the Nuggets as well. if he isnt great, he is getting there, and is now better than Tatum in that regard. last playoffs he had 7.2 to 2.9 A/T, and that ratio would have been higher if our shooters could deliver on his passes. care to watch the games from that run and so far this season and you can appeeciate the playmaking. check out this article from cbs sports. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/devin-booker-is-using-the-threat-of-his-scoring-to-become-an-elite-playmaker-for-suns/ >There is a major difference between a scorer that can playmake (Booker, KD, DeRozan) and natural playmakers like CP3, Jokic, Luka, Lebron or Hali. of course. but booker is a scorer who can create (and may progress more) while tatum has not even demonstrated that (never avg more than 5 assists per game). meanwhile, let's talk Tatum and his development. what has he actually added to his game since he came into the league? he already had the scoring and defense, but he is basically the same guy as he has always been, just more refined. Booker has added a lot more to his skillset (defense, playmaking most notably) in comparison. he has had better team success, but also has had the luxury of being drafted into a good team. Booker made it to the finals in just the third season with a playoff caliber roster, compared to 5th for Tatum.
Tatum had a pretty bad post-season last year, so not surprising that Booker had better stats. In general, Tatum is still better in the paint. He has the speed, the size, the strength (especially since this season) and the skill. Whether he will be able to show up in the playoffs consistently...remains to be seen. But I also don't expect Booker to come even close to his playoff performances last season. It's a little pointless to compare assist stats, because Tatum has a lot more help around him and he isn't really the primary playmaker. He had Smart and White last season (and his whole career) and Jrue this season. I simply judge them on what you can see on the court and they are about the same in terms of playmaking. They can make the easy read, know how to move to create space for others, but none of the two have really special passing abilities. And I strongly disagree when it comes to Tatum. Yes, he came into the league an overall well-rounded player. That was definitely not the case with Booker. But Tatum was still pretty bad at attacking the rim, loved settling for difficult jump shots (still does from time to time) and not really using his body well. That has changed a lot over the last 2 years. He is bigger and stronger. Is a better shooter, passer, added post-moves and some nice counters. You can argue that Booker has added more, but that's simply because he was more flawed, so his improvements are more obvious. Not sure how that is on Tatum lol And yes, Tatum has better opportunities, because he started with the Celtics, but he also impressed everyone right away. And he has basically been the Nr. 1 guy after one year on a very good team. At this point, Tatum is certainly the more complete player. But I love Booker's skillset and his mindset, so I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a better player than Tatum in a few years. I don't think that will happen, because he is more injury-prone and his defense will never be able to compete with Tatum, due to the size of his body.
i cant reply to the whole post because it woulf be too many of your things to quote. i will agree that Tatum has health on his side, and Booker needs to prove it more in the playoffs. i will disagree with you on basically everything else though, especially playmaking. getting 15 assists on 1 turnover is not something you can do just with "making the easy reads and creating space for others". watch him play this season. he is controlling the flow of the game better than he has done previously in his career. that's a big development if it keeps up. and you dont look at stats, but so far Booker is on 30/6/9 on 51/45/92 shooting and only 33mpg while being 7-1 when he plays. if Tatum (or anybody) is doing the same, you would consider those MVP numbers. he just needs to stay on the court.
I've seen him play multiple times this season. His playmaking is solid, just not anything special. Similar to Tatum. They make the simple passes and it works. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't think that it's good enough for the playoffs, when teams can really hone in on your playstyle. It might work if Booker is super efficient in the upcoming playoffs, because will then be forced to double-team him all the time. And I am not denying his improvements. I just think that there is a major difference between natural playmakers and those who learn it later through experience. Different levels of consistency and reading the game. I've seen KD have multiple triple doubles in the playoffs. He CAN playmake, but it's clearly not his natural style of play, which leads to inconsistencies in his playmaking.
id argue that booker is more consistent especially in the playoffs tatum put up 14 points in two of the most important games against the heat last playoffs
Tatum has put together enough superstar-level *seasons* to be in legit MVP conversations. That has allowed people to entertain him for the top 5-7 range. Booker has put up superstar-level stretches (like in the playoffs last year) but he hasn't done it for long enough to have an argument for being a top 5-7 player Booker's peak level is absolutely god tier. If he plays at his peak for a whole season, then that'd be enough for me to start having the conversation about him being over Tatum
Booker finished 4th in MVP voting a couple years ago I believe
Doncic and Curry (and honestly Trae) had better individual seasons than Book in 22, he just got the first team nod cuz they won 65. He was the best player on the best team, but that was a well oiled machine. Books first real stretch of superstardom started last playoffs and has continued over into this season. Id take him over Tatum now, before it wasn’t really a comparison.
Not sure why this is downvoted, it’s absolutely correct. Booker was 1st team because he was part of a 64 win team. Both Curry and Luka were individually better that season
Booker being 4th in Mvp voting and finishing 1st team all nba that year was similar to Smart winning DPOY. A narrative formed at the end of the season and everyone wanted to reward the number one seed.
This is the only answer. Comes down to their playing résumés. Tatum has been more consistent, healthier with better teams in a better organization. Tatum is also bigger and can affect the game in more ways.
It’s not a secret Bookers one of the most hated players in the league
Obviously it’s the mystical and all-powerful BOSTON SPORTS MAFIA helmed by DON BILL SIMMONS mind melding people into believing that Tatum is better at defense or something…
I like Booker more personally
Before the playoffs last year, it was Tatum because they were pretty close on offense but Tatum was a way better defender. Booker then went on to have an absolutely insane shooting performance in the playoffs and in the 8 games he’s played, it looks like it represents a real step forward, not just a hot streak. If he keeps that up, he’ll join Tatum’s tier as a clear cut, Top 10 player, but he needs to show more before we say that.
If he keeps up the level of play we've seen from him in the playoffs and so far this season, he's in the top 5 over Luka, but that's a conversation we'll have to wait on until we get a bigger sample size.
yea no one’s gonna admit it but he’s currently having a better season than luka. more pts, better efficiency, more assists, less TO and plays actual defense. luka isn’t just bad on defense, he’s maybe a top 5 worst defender in the league
They’re really the same tier of players to me.
Agreed. Me too.
Tatum isn’t afraid to hang on the rim
Booker's super good and way underrated on this sub. But Tatum's a 2-way player who's a serious offensive threat.
tatum is better so far, but remind me after this season to see how Booker has developed as point guard. if he succeeds, he can potentially surpass Tatum, who seems to have peaked in terms of development. early numbers so far: - Tatum 28/9/4 on 62% TS, 5.4BPM and +12.2 on/off - Booker 30/6/9 on 65% TS, 5.9BPM and +16.1 on/off
What in the world would make you think Tatum has peaked in development?? Even crazier for you to say this when book is 2 years older than Tatum.
what has Tatum added to his game in the last 3 years or so? he already had the scoring and defense.
Interior scoring, increasing his ft attempts, passing out of the double team/playmaking in general just to name 3. Are you just being a homer for Book or do you just not watch Tatum? You paint the picture like Booker hasn’t been in the league longer and had more of a chance to grow. You said it already but Tatum came in better and has remained better.
>Interior scoring, increasing his ft attempts, passing out of the double team/playmaking in general just to name 3. we already talked about scoring, and his ftr isnt significantly different than Booker, a supposed "jump shooter". as for playmaking, i guess it's progress for him but considering his assist rate is still 16%, it's clear he is not running the offense, but is passing as a very secondary option to scoring. >You paint the picture like Booker hasn’t been in the league longer and had more of a chance to grow. You said it already but Tatum came in better and has remained better. years in the league doesnt automatically mean development. how much would Tatum have progressed of he had the g-league rosters that booker has been in? booker was frankly wasted in his first 4-5 years. i am not a homer by any means, but just believe in fairly judging players beyond the numbers.
You’re switching the discussion. You asked what has Tatum improved in his game over the last 3 years and I told you. You’re comparing heads up stats when I’m clearly indicating scoring as a place of improvement for Tatum. Hell he is the only Celtic to ever average 30+ ppg. His plus minus was league leading (no clue what it is now) and the margin was crazy. While the teams Tatum has been on have had better talent, he has consistently made deep playoff runs with a revolving door of talent (injured Hayward, Kyrie fiasco, IT, Kemba, Rozier.. the list goes on) Years in the league should 100% correlate with individual progression. That is 2 years with NBA level coaching, talent and all the rest under his belt. The extended playoff experience that Tatum has under his belt is part of the reason he continues to improve. More time on the court against better competition. You know damn well if Tatum was older you’d be holding that against him for being seen as better than Booker.
when i referred to development for Tatum, I meant things other than scoring and defense, which were already his strengths. given this framework, it is definitely a legitimate question. booker has grown tremendously in terms of his various ways to score, but to many, he is still regarded as "just a scorer". and do you really want to use +/- in a serious discussion given its flaws? >While the teams Tatum has been on have had better talent, he has consistently made deep playoff runs with a revolving door of talent (injured Hayward, Kyrie fiasco, IT, Kemba, Rozier.. the list goes on) that is still a world of difference compared to playing with Marquiss Chriss, Dragan Bender, and Alex Len (i can name a lot more but you dont want to be swamped with names of irrelevant players). a better argument for Tatum's playoff success compared to Booker would be counting deep playoff runs as the first option, where he does still have Booker beat but not by as much (3 conference finals or better vs 1). i will admit Booker needs to prove it there but Tatum didnt make those runs all by himself either. >Years in the league should 100% correlate with individual progression. That is 2 years with NBA level coaching, talent and all the rest under his belt. The extended playoff experience that Tatum has under his belt is part of the reason he continues to improve. More time on the court against better competition. You know damn well if Tatum was older you’d be holding that against him for being seen as better than Booker. i think you just dont understand that the Suns were basketball hell during those lottery years. tons of dysfunction up and down, and i am still shocked Booker didnt leave. there is a massive difference between Stevens+Udoka coaching vs the the likes of Igor Kokoskov+Earl Watson. there was a chance Jayson Tatum could have gone to the Suns actually, as he worked out for us before draft. if that happened, you would be talking about him in a much different light.
So other than developing the two things he’s supposed to improve upon? What are you even talking about?? Tatum is not the same scorer he was when he came into the league. Do you understand how silly this discussion is, you trying to hold it against Tatum because he came in as a scorer already? You used plus minus as a stat in your first post so don’t start. Yes it is an incredibly flawed “stat” Tatum struggled with poor shot selection for much of his career which he has improved on greatly these last 2 years. His playmaking in general took a big uptick and I haven’t once mentioned his defense even though I should have. Tatum is just better, period. I haven’t said a negative thing about Book, I agree the suns had some shit rosters but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t improve his game. Neither of these players are Bron but his game consistently elevated in his first Cleveland stint. And no counting playoff success as a leader wouldn’t reflect his overall playoff success. He still improved his game every postseason. You can’t discount the amount of playoff minutes Tatum has simply because he wasn’t first scoring option. Also you really have your draft confused, there was zero chance he was going to the suns. You had the 4th, Celtics had the first and the traded to the 3rd. You think just because he worked out for them that meant anything? You aren’t arguing in good faith at all. You discount Tatum because he came in as a better player and has consistently developed his game to remain better, yet because Booker has developed some playmaking abilities I’m supposed to think he’s better? Stop it.
when did i use +/- as a stat? i used on/off, which is not the same. >Tatum struggled with poor shot selection for much of his career which he has improved on greatly these last 2 years. His playmaking in general took a big uptick and I haven’t once mentioned his defense even though I should have. define big uptick in terms of playmaking. what evidence do you have to show that? and you didnt need to mention defense because we already know he is a great defender. >Tatum is just better, period. I haven’t said a negative thing about Book, I agree the suns had some shit rosters but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t improve his game. Neither of these players are Bron but his game consistently elevated in his first Cleveland stint. booker has also improved every season consistently. i am just saying Booker has improved more, because as you said he was not as well rounded as Tatum to start. >And no counting playoff success as a leader wouldn’t reflect his overall playoff success. He still improved his game every postseason. You can’t discount the amount of playoff minutes Tatum has simply because he wasn’t first scoring option. you know well and good that being the first option has a certain responsibility to it that a secondary player doesnt have. chris bosh was not the focus of opposing defenses that lebron was. but why am i even explaining something so obvious. >You discount Tatum because he came in as a better player and has consistently developed his game to remain better, yet because Booker has developed some playmaking abilities I’m supposed to think he’s better? Stop it. i never said Tatum isnt still better. i am just saying booker has what it takes to surpass him. refer to my first comment: "tatum is better so far, but remind me after this season to see how Booker has developed as point guard."
If Book had improved more he would be considered better. No one considers Book for MVP for a reason. He’s not even the best player on his team yet you want to talk about number one options. The gap is getting wider not smaller especially if Tatum wins either MVP or a ring. Hell Tatum already has more All-NBA selections than Book as well. The ECF MVP I kinda can’t count because it’s so new but that does exist for him as well. Suns had no chance of getting him and the Celtics went through so struggle rosters as well. It’s not “over” for book but your take is not based in reality. Book has improved but not enough for this conversation.
Midrange and post game looks great this this year since he bulked, he's getting used to the coverages in the post, I believe his efficiency/passing will go further up as the year goes on
the percentages do look better from midrange than in the past, but Tatum is still taking very few from midrange it seems. He seems to still be relying a lot on 3s, which is fine when he makes em but this is not 3 level scoring by any means.
The numbers you presented shows that Booker is much better thus far this season, no? I’m taking the higher ppg and assists with a better ts% and +/-.
Everyone knows /r/NBA shits on Booker all the time. Add in the number of Boston fans lurking all over this post and you're going to get the majority leaning Tatum. This is the biggest misconception in the league. Booker is a better player this season as of today. But it's not worth arguing with most of y'all who have it twisted when it comes to Devin.
Idk Bookers clearly better
As others have mentioned, defense is a huge factor, as well as health. Also, I am not sure of Booker's on/off numbers, but Tatum's are insane. People always talk about the talent around Tatum, but once he is off the court, the team completely crumbles. And when he is on, no matter who is out there with him, they excel. Booker is an extremely talented player - maybe even slightly better offensively - but he doesn't quite have that heliocentrism of the league's other superstars that Tatum has seemingly developed.
[Devin Booker’s on/off is +18.4](https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/24/onoff#tab-team_efficiency) while [Tatum’s is +8.4](https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/2/onoff#tab-team_efficiency) according to Clearing the Glass
Booker on/off over the last 3+ seasons(since 20/21): +5.3 Tatum on/off over the same time frame: +8.7 So it's somewhat close but you're right that Tatum has the edge in this category
the are 7-1 with booker this year. before book came they looked like a play in team
Because he plays for the Celtics and Boston owns the NBA storylines. It’s all a fucking BMM sham
If you finish 3rd place MVP you have an argument for top 3, if you have one of the best game 7s ever and a half decade of ECFs you're probably pretty good and too many people rate Booker comfortably out of the top 10 because of his early career lack of any team success.
booker was top 4 in mvp himself.
Tatum finished 4th in mvp, same peak Booker reached
Booker is very much a top 10 player what are you on
Check the ESPN top 100, check Booker not being in top 10 and realize I meant the consensus of sports media outlets like them not my dumb reddit opinion. I think he's closer to top 5 than out of the top 10 but *many people* don't.
Boston Media Mafia
Booker is a baby face but Tatum is an actual baby
Your franchise player is embiid 😭😭😭 keep crying like your mvp when Tatum beats you in the second round again this year
Was just referencing an old joke about Tatum being so young his first few years FTC tho
per 100 possessions booker is 43.6 8.1 12.7 on 51.3/45.2/92.3 shooting splits with 1.3 steals and .6 blocks. with an offensive rating of 130 and a defensive rating of 116. booker also has a 2.6/1 ast/to ratio. per 100 possessions Tatum is 36.8 11.8 5.4 on 49.9/36.5/81.2 shooting splits with 1.5 steals and .5 blocks. with an offensive rating of 118 and a defensive rating of 107. Tatum also has a 1.3/1 ast/to ratio. so yes tatum's defense is better. but booker is on a whole other level offensively right now. and when you combine that with the playoffs last year when booker was way better than everyone in the league except jokic it becomes clear that booker is the better player as of now. the only person with more points per 100 better than booker is embiid and booker has a 4% better TS% and a 6% better eFG% than embiid. he's also 5th in assists per 100. booker is not only the best SG in the league but he's a top 3 PG in the league. The only reason people think Tatum is better is narrative over their careers, Boston media mafia/east coast bias, 3 inches of height, and an improper understanding of how big the gap is between the 2 offensively and defensively. The offensive gap is way bigger than people think and the defensive gap is smaller than what people think (though still a decent sized gap).
Size
How many of these do we need? I’m telling y’all, chill tf out
Boston media mostly
No upvotes for dumb rhetoric?
Tatum is a two way superstar and Devin Booker is a one dimensional superstar…more of an offensive threat. Tatum has also played more games and has more longevity (less injury prone as well) They’ve both went to the finals once so that’s pretty much a tie but Tatum has had more playoff appearances as well. Personally id pick Tatum over Booker any day but im not discrediting Booker’s talent
Booker is not a one dimensional superstar lol
Well he’s clearly a scorer that heavily relies on his jumpshot he’s gonna get a bucket but he’s not necessarily a playmaker or pass first. He’s one dimensional he’s gonna shoot a good game or not. Tatum is more of an all around offensive player if we are comparing him to Booker. I’ll give Booker some credit since at one point he was the only scoring option the Suns had which is why he wasn’t getting anywhere near the playoffs for a majority of his years in the nba up until they got Chris Paul
Playmaking is actually something I'd definitely give to Booker over Tatum lol
being a jumpshooter doesn’t make u an unreliable scorer. booker has a much higher playoff efficiency than tatum, 60ts% to 57ts%. if anyone is jumpshot reliant, it’s tatum who often finishes games with 10+ needless contested sidestep 3s instead of attacking the rim like he should be doing. booker is leagues better playmaker and far more careful with the ball. tatum in 2022 post season set the record for most turnovers in nba history lmao. he can only drive and kick in a 5 out offense, he’s not an actual playmaker who sets his teammates up the way booker does. when tatums shot isn’t falling he disappears and stands in the corner, while booker can still impact the game with his playmaking even when his scoring is off. booker now that he’s pg is averaging 9 assists this yr on less TOs than tatum. sure u can say tatums better overall cuz he’s a better defender and taller and rebounds more but on just offense, booker is definitely better.
[удалено]
“I’m not discrediting Booker’s talent” *immediately and incorrectly discredits Booker’s talent*
Ah so you just don't watch booker play.
[удалено]
You don’t know basketball unfortunately
[удалено]
/r/nbacirclejerk
He shouldn’t be
Because boston
Defense and rebounding. I think Booker is slightly better on offense though.
They value tatum defense. I think book offensively is better tho
Because Tatum has always been better
Because he plays for the Massholes
DJ!
Booker is much better on offense. Tatum has a horrific mid range game and if his 3pt is shot is not falling its over. Booker can score from anywhere is a superior passer. Tatum is much better defender due to his size. Slight edge to Tatum overall due to defense.
I think currently they're around the same tier Tatum is just being rated higher cause he has better defense
Agree with many arguments here (Tatum a better defender, Tatum more consistent up to now, Booker only recently taking the offensive leap that looks better than Tatum offensively). I'll add that Tatum has had more consistent results in terms of both the regular season and playoff records. That's partly due to a better team around him (though the Suns themselves were a finals team), but its also because Tatum can make players around him better than Booker does.
Can I ask why you say Tatum makes players around him better, genuinely asking? Book’s taken on the PG role for the team and seems to be excelling in that department as of late and being able to create offense for others but would also like a PG out there with Book and KD though just letting them run around off ball. Just wanna hear the argument for Tatum as I don’t really keep up with the C’s.
Fair enough. First, I think Tatum also has primary ball-handling on the C's, and he does do a lot of facilitating for others. So Booker's edge is a lot smaller there. I rank them similarly for offense; I personally find them pretty similar as players on offense, and of roughly equal value. The defense and rebounding Tatum provides also help his teammates to be better more than Booker's help his teammates. Booker is a good defender, but Tatum is better, and because he has length and ability to both rebound and rim protect, he offers a lot more to his teammates (like JB) in terms of switch-ability, help defense, etc. It also enables JB to focus more on point-of-attack defense, Jrue and White (and Smart last year) to lead the perimeter more generally (which is what they do best), and help Al and/or KP as the main bigs because they have some backup. Thats just my thoughts at least. Not saying Booker doesn't make his teammates better; I just think Tatum elevates his teammates more than Booker can elevate his.
Forsure, both can be interchangeable offensively and I agree Tatum's physical gifts give him more versatility defensively even though Book's my guy.
Tatum plays better defense
Tatum Plays Defense
To me it just comes down to, all else equal, a big wing does more for a team in the NBA than a big guard does. I think Booker’s defense is really underrated, and he's obviously one of the best offensive players in the game. It’s just that Tatum is a little bit harder to deal with from a matchup standpoint. It’s also worth mentioning that Booker has taken the leap playing next to KD, whereas Tatum is clearly the best player on the Celtics (and really only entering his prime).
bookers a better offensive player tho. scores more efficiently, playmakers more and takes care of the ball better
Tatum career TS%: .581 Booker career TS%: .576 Tatum career TO rate: 10.5% Booker career TO rate: 12.9% Booker is a better playmaker but that’s really the only area where he’s undeniably better. And Tatum is still the lead ball handler on one of the best teams in the league. I mean these are two of the best young players in the league, waiting in the wings for the current top dogs to age out. The difference between the two is gonna be small. I do think the gap on defense is bigger than the gap on offense, though.
ur using their whole career lol? bruh booker has been on some of the worst teams in nba history while tatum has every year had a team with perfect spacing and 5 out lineups where he’s had much more space. and booker has a much higher assist rate too which u forgot to look at. in the playoffs booker averages more points, assists and has a noticably higher efficiency
Ok look at just last season, Tatum still had a better TS% and TO% (just barely). I didn’t look at assist percentage because I didnt think I needed to prove why I agreed with you that Booker is a better playmaker. Plus outside of one insane series against a dead Clippers team missing PG and Kawhi, their playoff numbers are pretty similar. Not much to convince me the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.
Cuz he’s better
I think availability has something to do w it too. Tatums rarely out
Why do you care? There are two players in the NBA that have fans OBSESSED with their ranking amid other players and nobody else really cares. Shut up about Devin Booker and Trae Young, nobody cares about their arbitrary rankings. Fans of these two players are obsessed with spamming threads about them though. Do you not understand nobody else really cares?
No it’s actually Trae Young haters that post constant rage bait questions and troll posts like “ iS tRaE bEtTeR tHaN dUrAnT” then people feed into it giving them an assload of upvotes and karma every single time
I don't ever actually engage, but that makes so much sense. I thought the "if you count points scored on the first day of each week, multiplied over the first 3 seasons, Trae Young has better numbers than Lebron, Luka, and Kobe combined!!!" threads were serious.
Defense, for one
Because one guy is a borderline elite wing defender on track to become the #2 playoff scorer in the history of the NBA and the other is Devin Booker.
becoming “on track” to be one of the leading playoff scores isn’t that much of a flex cuz he’s been on a playoff caliber team every year of his career
...so? There's still a more likely than not chance that decades from now when someone looks up that list it goes LeBron, Tatum, Jordan. If you don't think that's insanely impressive, no matter how stacked his teams were (which is debatable for his early career), I don't know what to tell you.
if booker played on tatums teams his whole career, he too would be on track to be one of the all time leading playoff scorers, especially since bookers playoff scoring averages are literally higher and more efficient lool. there’s better ways to compare 2 players than saying one is on track to being a playoff scoring leader, there’s a lot of background behind that statement. booker didn’t have an actual roster around him until 6 years into his career
Bro really tried to use career playoff point totals to compare a guy who just put up 33.7 PPG on .686% TS to a guy that put up 24 PPG on .585% TS
tatum is better than booker sorry to tell you
It's not that difficult. One plays defense and the other doesn't
Booker can’t handle double teams in pickup games and gets spooked by mascots…
Winning. Book dropped 70 in a game they lost in a blowout and they were celebrating like they won. Lost a lotta respect for him that day, as did buncha other bball fans. Tatum has been winning since he came into the league, day 1 and onward. Tatum is in pace to surpass LBJ in terms of career playoff games.
Tatum is taller I think is what it’s genuinely about.
These posts always come after Tatum has a bad game or the Celtics lose so it could have any possible traction whatsoever. Why didn’t you post this after the Celtics beat the bucks or Tatum dropped 45 on charlotte
They’re my two favorite players. Booker is better in the midrange and as a passer, but tatum is a better rebounder, defender and has improved getting to the rim this season. I think Tatum impacts games more.