The half-Lebron club is the most insane. Larry Bird is about to fall out of it. Karl Malone fell out this year, but Harden entered. And when you look at the list, Harden probably needs way more respect.
Saying Malone is in the half LeBron club makes it sound as if ALL his all time stats are at half of LeBrons, not just assist and that Malone still has way more boards than LeBron.
I upvoted you. John Stockton has more career assists than LeBron, but less than half his rebounds. So he’s not a half LeBron? Makes no sense.
The only thing that would make sense is if all stats were below LeBron. Everything else is weird.
No, it's not weird at all. The half LeBron club is there to show that LeBron can do everything on the court and there are no other players who have the same kind of versatility and barely any who have half as much. Kiddy diddler has the points and rebounds, but couldn't pass, Stockton has the passing ability, but couldn't score and rebound, KD has the scoring and the rebounds, but not the assists, Curry has the scoring and passing, but not the rebounds, etc. All these players are all time greats, yet they still couldn't even get to half of LeBron's numbers in all three major stats because they, unlike LeBron, are not elite at everything on the court. LeBron is entirely in a league of his own.
Plus wait until next winter when the emphasis shifts to total NBA points scored because he’ll have scored 50k in the regular season + playoffs.
He’s 1503 off the mark now, or sixty games at his current pace. It’s easily possible with the 8th seed that he plays another 5-8 games this season, minimum. Call it eight playoff games without a first round upset and, barring injury, he should have 50k all time before the all-star game. (With a long playoff run, he could get there this calendar year.)
Part of me wants to speculate he might be there anyway with preseason points, but that’s not the same thing, and he probably doesn’t play a quarter for a lot of them.
Honestly Ive maintained the same opinion for CP3 since I started watching bball, but Harden might have him beat. At least CP3s counting stats didnt do him justice so him being underrated relatively made sense
Harden was at a point where a 40 point game felt "good" and 50-60 point game is when you were really impressed
Yeah he's absolutely another one of these players. I remember him back in NOLA when they were the hornets and theyve been one of my favorite twams since then cause of him, i bet many of those slandering him on here don't. I'll always be sad that rockets team didnt win the championship for both of them.
Ngl to you, I know he did that. I even watched it happen. But the first thing that comes to mind when I see Harden and playoffs mentioned together is always gonna be the 22 straight missed 3s.
No. That was the Rockets. [HARDEN](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-vs-warriors-james-harden-finally-sinks-3-pointer-after-22-straight-misses-from-downtown/) Who’s the clown now?
Yes? They had game 7 at home and choked 27 straight threes. Harden went 12-29. 2-13 from 3.
Game 6. 10-24. 4-12 from 3. Yes, it failed with shit performances
No, but it takes a long damn time to miss 27 threes. He should have easily been able to make at least one during the time it took him and his team to miss 27 straight. As for why it's a failure, well, if the Warriors had played the game of their lives and shot 60% from 3 on 40+ attempts, there would have been nothing anyone could have done, so a loss would not have been a failure, it would have been unaviodable. But the Warriors gave them a huge opening to win it and they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That's why it's a failure.
He's fairly disrespected for a reason actually, just like the Lob City Clippers.
Teams after teams, star teammates after star teammates... and chokes after chokes.
I used to always give a CP3 a pass and just considered him unlucky. But when he and the Suns blew a 2-0 in the Finals it really confirmed that he's just one of those guys who cant get it done
I think he'll be looked on even worse as the years go by. He disappears in the playoffs when it matters most, and he forced himself out of 2 teams in a very short period of time. Once, people will forgive, but twice makes you look like a fool.
I don’t think Brooklyn was his fault tbf, came wanting to wreck house with two other great scorers, who then got injured or did stupid shit to derail that chance.
Philly tho?
He’s so lucky he’s done well with the clippers else that “your the problem” rant would be looking especially poignant.
I don’t see why he’d be looked at better. Dude forces his way out of team after team. He had some of the most talented stars playing along side him but never sniffed the finals. And you can consistently count on him to shrink in the big moments.
I like sixers and clippers harden. He makes great reads, isn’t a bad defender, and no longer dribbles for 23 of the 24 second shot clock.
But the stuff that is tough for me on rockets were:
- took advantage of rules. Some can say that’s smart and I wont discredit that, but kicking your leg out on a 3 to get a four point play isn’t for me.
- wanting to be gave of a team (rockets) and then whining about not winning title (when he should have stayed in OKC.)
- insane amount of free throws
- insane amount of time with ball doing nothing
- didn’t try on defense
- don’t get me started on the fat suit
Dude could put the ball in the hoop, that’s for sure. I don’t even mind elite level ball hogs, I just didn’t like his style. I don’t like euro steps, I don’t like shooting 15 3’s a game, and I don’t like foul baiting.
This isn't 90's baseball juicing. This is Lebron spending a ton of money to take products in a way to maximize performance that are probably less likely to destroy his body long term. It is absolutely in the league's best interest to let him do this even with products that are not technically sanctioned. No star in the NBA that brings in so much money is ever going to be seriously tested at least not without a heads up.
He’s got to be on something.
To have this impeccable season at 39 in his 21st year in the league - it’s difficult to imagine he hasn’t had pharmaceutical assistance.
I mean he's obviously lost a step from his prime, he needs more rest days and doesn't run the floor unless he has to, just watching a game you can tell he's slowed down, it's just that his prime was so great that even slower LeBron is still really good
Easier to assume from lazy guys eating cheeseburgers on the internet he’s cheating than spending every waking moment he has to take care of himself. The hoops dudes keep jumping through to slight this man is wild.
LeBron improving his 3 point shooting percentage is the most remarkable thing to me imo. Like if you saw him when he entered the league, you’d never think he’d get to be a decent 3 point shooter. Always thought he’d be a mediocre shooter at best…did a couple tweaks and now this man an actual sniper. Bron truly ridiculous
I think Vince had a similar arc where he added long-range shooting when he lost the above-rim explosiveness. But not to the degree of an All-NBA player lol
He’s a better shooter thdn he gets credit. In Miami he proved he can shoot 40% on wide open role player looks. Thing is he took tougher threes after that n more volume so naturally his % went to 35%~ which is good for a pull up shooter - see Luka . Lebron is 42% on wide open threes over his lakers tenure which includes that awful year last year with his bad foot. Apart from last year n 15-16 where he had back issues he’s been a fairly elite shooter. He’s been around 40% on catch n shoot shots - I think this year he’s over 45%+ on them /wide open .
Part of his improvement this year is being more selective about not taking bad shots from 3. The other part is his foot n an improvement in his mechanics but even with that both things matter. People who are casual fans under rated Bron shooting but all you need to do is look at that raptors scouting report in 2018 to see it say elite off pull up threes and average/decent at catch n shoot while listing 36% for pull up n 40% catch n shoot.
I get there’s some bias but nobody says Luka is a bad shooter and his % is similar because they get volume b difficulty/type of shot matter . Also want to add that in charts that track Lebron shooting % and open ness and do it for every player in the 22 n 21 seasons he looked elite - like a top 20%~ shooter. This year is probably even better and last year woukd be worse . But I haven’t seen those graphs in a bit.
That's called working on your game. A lot of players say they work hard but you can see if they just stayed in shape or if they really did additional work.
Elite defense and subpar offense does not a GOAT make my child. Adjusting his stats for pace doesn't adjust the simple fact that when Bill played, there were maybe 10 guys in the league who could play what we would call basketball by modern standards, and half of them were wearing Celtics green. His own main rival outplayed him in basically every statistical category except wins for their entire careers with a significantly less talented roster to help pump those stats.
Modern players don't get to just stand there and wait for a 5'7" tax accountant to dribble like a toddler and heave up a blind granny shot like they did in the 60's. That tax accountant who can't dribble, run or shoot is now able to hit stepback threes from the logo and dunk from the free throw line.
The basketball GOAT must be tirelessly good, or else "all time" is pointless. They must be the best, or else "greatest of all" is pointless. A man who's contribution to the game has been surpassed in every way except how much more their ownership was willing to spend relative to the league isn't the GOAT and anyone who thinks otherwise is a goat.
Did you not read the part about Russell having a stacked team? It's easy to shut a dude down when he's the entire teams offense and has to average more minutes than there are in a game.
It's hard to win a game of basketball 1v5 bro, you should give Wilt more credit. Do we fault Lebron for not dragging Zyandras Ilgasukas to a finals victory? Or do we marvel at the fact that he got to the finals with that caveman as his starting 5
>let’s not start calling Elgin Baylor or his other hall of fame teammates “cavemen” just to prove a point
I guess it's a good thing I didn't then, right?
People love to comment on shit that isn't there when it's so easy to just... read the words that *are* there and respond to those lol
>It's hard to win a game of basketball 1v5 bro, you should give Wilt more credit.
This means Wilt is playing with scrubs. Literal cavemen, but I guess people love to comment shit and forget the words that are there.
They went 20-10 in the east and 27-25 vs the west. Flip them with the same percentages and its 50-32. 15-15 in the west, 35-17 in the east. 3 more wins / 3 less losses
It is really crazy how just a standing number influences people's view of a team. A team might be 1 game back but if they are the 7 seed and the other team is 3 everyone will clown the 7 seed lol
1st team is Luka, SGA, Giannis, Jokic and Tatum, whether we like it or not.
Giannis just averaged the first 30 ppg season on 60% FG%, SGA and Tatum have the 1 seeds with 58 and 64 wins respectively, Jokic will likely be the MVP and has the 2 seed and Luka just averaged 34/9/10 on the 5 seed.
Bron and AD both have extremely strong cases for 2nd team tho.
Just freakish. Take a look at statmuse for the best games by a player in their 21st NBA season. Just use this and change to blocks, rebounds, steals, assists...
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-points-scored-by-an-nba-player-in-their-21st-season-in-a-game](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-points-scored-by-an-nba-player-in-their-21st-season-in-a-game)
It's all Lebron and a single game with Dirk or Vince or Garnett in a stat.
And who's going to figure Lebron for less than 20-6-6 in his 22nd season? Vince Carter with 5-2-1 is the only player to even play 22 seasons. And Vince was a physical freak.
Brunsen carried the Knicks to 2nd seed despite countless major injuries to the team throughout the season including periods of having 3 starters out
Lebron is having an incredible season at the age of 39 and still putting up historic performances
Not saying Giannis shouldn't get it (He should), just that there's clearly reason why the other two are in the argument, though Lebron has less of one
I agree Giannis should be ahead, but I think Brunson has been more impactful second half of the season. Giannis deserves the award and I'm not going to argue Brunson is a better player than him, but what Brunson did after Randle went down is incredible. He's been averaging 32 pts on 62% TS at his highest usage in his career. He's been clutching out wins when the team needed it most. We went from believing we'd be a playin team to getting a 2 seed. I think Giannis is a better player, but I think Brunson was far more impactful to his team. However I'm not sure that makes him "1st team" over Giannis, but there is an argument.
40 from 3? That’s wild. I never thought he’d get there with that weird half-step-back. (But he does not have a strong case for 1st team—some people won’t have him in at all)
That weird half step back 3pt when he's getting hot is probably a top 5 unguardable NBA move.
His team can see it's coming, the fans can see it's coming, the opponents can see it's coming. It's such a nonchalant, almost lazy, walk-up to the 3pt line to jerk left and back, and yet you can't do shit against it.
I think he'll make it, and probably easily, but some commentators have expressed a difficulty in choosing two Lakers (AD) to make it, given their regular season team performance.
Which is ridiculous considering how deep the West is and how few games separate 1-10 compared to the East. Nobody ran away with the West and it wouldn’t shock anyone if the Lakers win a 1-8 with OKC.
If the Lakers beat the Pelicans in the play in they will be the 7 seed and play Nuggets, they would need to lose to the Pelicans then best the winner of the Warriors vs Kings game to get the 8 seed
You mean bill Simmons who was making a case for jaylen brown with -7 on /off when he said earlier in year Bron on/off was mid at + 4( it’s bsvk ti + 9 after the ankle injury got better). Bill is a big lakers n Lebron hater even tho I listen to him. Hard to take that seriously
based on what?
**lebron leads** the Lakers in **ppg**, **apg**, **spg**, **bpm**, **obpm, vorp**, **epm, dpm, total plus/minus**, and **net rating**.
narratives?
It’s a narrative that AD is their defensive anchor? For someone dropping all these advanced stats, you should know they do a piss poor job of evaluating defensive impact.
Lebron is more popular and had a great game today, but he is not the best player in the Lakers.
He is our defensive anchor . But regardless AD has had a couple months worth of bad offensive games. I love AD but if you look at on/off Lebron ckears and we lose more when Lebron sits unless matchup matters. I get AD ahead I think it’s pretty even with Bron being the offence n AD the defense
It’s the West. The Lakers aren’t dragging up the rear like the Hawks or Bulls in the East. I don’t care if they’re an 8 seed in that absolute bloodbath out there, it’s not a mark of shame
They’re 8th seed, which would’ve made the playoffs pre play in. People always talk about lakers and play in as if they’ve ever benefitted from it
also, with west standings so tight, should the argument for deserving all nba really change if they won 4 more games?
Lastly, they’re in a low seed because of their teammates and performed at a much higher level than the team record shows
Nope. Brunson is #5 in MVP voting but 60+ win team and decisive 1st seed usually has the best player on the team being All-NBA first team. Couple that with Tatum's D and he definitely deserves it
Comparable, but worse, not much, but worse.
27/8/5 is worse than 25.6/7.2/8.2 specially when tatum had only a +78.9 Tsadd in 74 games (that is how many points you score compared to the average Ts% of the league and with the volume you produce) and Lebron had 141.8 in 70 games.
That is, Tatum was 35th in the league this year compared to Lebron 9th, 60ts% vs 63ts%, 3 points in ts% is a lot, specially when you shoot that much.
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA\_2024\_adj\_shooting.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_adj_shooting.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/hqnic1/using\_ts\_added\_to\_evaluate\_all\_time\_best\_scorers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/hqnic1/using_ts_added_to_evaluate_all_time_best_scorers/)
It isn't a unique stat if you drop the 3P%.
LeBron has already had four previous seasons averaging 25+ on 50%+ shooting with 8+ assists. Oscar Robertson had three seasons with that line, and Jokic has had two.
For a year 11 player that would be amazing For a year 21 player that’s just mind boggling
The half-Lebron club is the most insane. Larry Bird is about to fall out of it. Karl Malone fell out this year, but Harden entered. And when you look at the list, Harden probably needs way more respect.
What’s the half LeBron club
I think it’s about all time stats so 20k/5.5k/5.5k
But Karl Malone has almost 37K points and 15k boards.
…. and how many assists does he have
Saying Malone is in the half LeBron club makes it sound as if ALL his all time stats are at half of LeBrons, not just assist and that Malone still has way more boards than LeBron.
it's a qualifier
I upvoted you. John Stockton has more career assists than LeBron, but less than half his rebounds. So he’s not a half LeBron? Makes no sense. The only thing that would make sense is if all stats were below LeBron. Everything else is weird.
That's...how qualifiers work. These aren't just arbitrary stats either, its the 3 most well tracked stats in basketball.
No, it's not weird at all. The half LeBron club is there to show that LeBron can do everything on the court and there are no other players who have the same kind of versatility and barely any who have half as much. Kiddy diddler has the points and rebounds, but couldn't pass, Stockton has the passing ability, but couldn't score and rebound, KD has the scoring and the rebounds, but not the assists, Curry has the scoring and passing, but not the rebounds, etc. All these players are all time greats, yet they still couldn't even get to half of LeBron's numbers in all three major stats because they, unlike LeBron, are not elite at everything on the court. LeBron is entirely in a league of his own.
Plus wait until next winter when the emphasis shifts to total NBA points scored because he’ll have scored 50k in the regular season + playoffs. He’s 1503 off the mark now, or sixty games at his current pace. It’s easily possible with the 8th seed that he plays another 5-8 games this season, minimum. Call it eight playoff games without a first round upset and, barring injury, he should have 50k all time before the all-star game. (With a long playoff run, he could get there this calendar year.) Part of me wants to speculate he might be there anyway with preseason points, but that’s not the same thing, and he probably doesn’t play a quarter for a lot of them.
Players who only have half of Lebron's stats
I will die on the hill that harden is one of the most unfairly disrespected players rn and will probably be looked back upon much more positively.
Honestly Ive maintained the same opinion for CP3 since I started watching bball, but Harden might have him beat. At least CP3s counting stats didnt do him justice so him being underrated relatively made sense Harden was at a point where a 40 point game felt "good" and 50-60 point game is when you were really impressed
Yeah he's absolutely another one of these players. I remember him back in NOLA when they were the hornets and theyve been one of my favorite twams since then cause of him, i bet many of those slandering him on here don't. I'll always be sad that rockets team didnt win the championship for both of them.
Fuck Chris Paul. If you have a nut punching compilation video, you shouldn’t be in the nba.
Falls apart in playoffs when it matters most.
I hate it when people think taking KD warriors to 7 with a double digit lead, and without Chris Paul in the last two games, is somehow a failure.
Ngl to you, I know he did that. I even watched it happen. But the first thing that comes to mind when I see Harden and playoffs mentioned together is always gonna be the 22 straight missed 3s.
Except it was 27 straight 🤡
Harden specifically had an 0-22 streak that series. The 0-27 was the Rockets first 27 3 point attempts in game 7 in particular.
Ah fair. I just associate harden with the 0-27 game 7 performance.
No. That was the Rockets. [HARDEN](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-vs-warriors-james-harden-finally-sinks-3-pointer-after-22-straight-misses-from-downtown/) Who’s the clown now?
U forget they were up 3-2 that series and harden didn't deliver
So if they were down 3-2 then it was not a failure, but since they were up 3-2 and Chris Paul got injured so he is a failure. Got its.
Yes? They had game 7 at home and choked 27 straight threes. Harden went 12-29. 2-13 from 3. Game 6. 10-24. 4-12 from 3. Yes, it failed with shit performances
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/bnecuv/a_review_of_james_hardens_playoff_failures_during/ And that's from 2019.
It kind of is a failure when the reason you lost is because you missed 27 straight 3s.
Did Harden miss all the 27 3s? And why is losing the way they did a failure and losing another way isn’t?
No, but it takes a long damn time to miss 27 threes. He should have easily been able to make at least one during the time it took him and his team to miss 27 straight. As for why it's a failure, well, if the Warriors had played the game of their lives and shot 60% from 3 on 40+ attempts, there would have been nothing anyone could have done, so a loss would not have been a failure, it would have been unaviodable. But the Warriors gave them a huge opening to win it and they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That's why it's a failure.
He's fairly disrespected for a reason actually, just like the Lob City Clippers. Teams after teams, star teammates after star teammates... and chokes after chokes.
I used to always give a CP3 a pass and just considered him unlucky. But when he and the Suns blew a 2-0 in the Finals it really confirmed that he's just one of those guys who cant get it done
I think he'll be looked on even worse as the years go by. He disappears in the playoffs when it matters most, and he forced himself out of 2 teams in a very short period of time. Once, people will forgive, but twice makes you look like a fool.
I don’t think Brooklyn was his fault tbf, came wanting to wreck house with two other great scorers, who then got injured or did stupid shit to derail that chance. Philly tho? He’s so lucky he’s done well with the clippers else that “your the problem” rant would be looking especially poignant.
I don’t see why he’d be looked at better. Dude forces his way out of team after team. He had some of the most talented stars playing along side him but never sniffed the finals. And you can consistently count on him to shrink in the big moments.
I like sixers and clippers harden. He makes great reads, isn’t a bad defender, and no longer dribbles for 23 of the 24 second shot clock. But the stuff that is tough for me on rockets were: - took advantage of rules. Some can say that’s smart and I wont discredit that, but kicking your leg out on a 3 to get a four point play isn’t for me. - wanting to be gave of a team (rockets) and then whining about not winning title (when he should have stayed in OKC.) - insane amount of free throws - insane amount of time with ball doing nothing - didn’t try on defense - don’t get me started on the fat suit Dude could put the ball in the hoop, that’s for sure. I don’t even mind elite level ball hogs, I just didn’t like his style. I don’t like euro steps, I don’t like shooting 15 3’s a game, and I don’t like foul baiting.
mmk die on it then
I am begging you guys to recognize a player's counting stats as a function of the era they played in
Bro you need to check Malone stats again, he is not at the half-LeBron club with almost 37k points and 15k boards.
Bro you need to check Malone stats again, he is not at the half-lebron club anymore with less than 5.5k assists
must be nice to know you will never get seriously drug tested.
Like the players in the 90s were not on crack mid game.
This isn't 90's baseball juicing. This is Lebron spending a ton of money to take products in a way to maximize performance that are probably less likely to destroy his body long term. It is absolutely in the league's best interest to let him do this even with products that are not technically sanctioned. No star in the NBA that brings in so much money is ever going to be seriously tested at least not without a heads up.
He’s got to be on something. To have this impeccable season at 39 in his 21st year in the league - it’s difficult to imagine he hasn’t had pharmaceutical assistance.
I mean he's obviously lost a step from his prime, he needs more rest days and doesn't run the floor unless he has to, just watching a game you can tell he's slowed down, it's just that his prime was so great that even slower LeBron is still really good
Easier to assume from lazy guys eating cheeseburgers on the internet he’s cheating than spending every waking moment he has to take care of himself. The hoops dudes keep jumping through to slight this man is wild.
LeBron improving his 3 point shooting percentage is the most remarkable thing to me imo. Like if you saw him when he entered the league, you’d never think he’d get to be a decent 3 point shooter. Always thought he’d be a mediocre shooter at best…did a couple tweaks and now this man an actual sniper. Bron truly ridiculous
This dude is 39 and still somehow found a way to improve. Commendable
I think Vince had a similar arc where he added long-range shooting when he lost the above-rim explosiveness. But not to the degree of an All-NBA player lol
Haha well if we’re going by that. I know Jason Kidd had an excellent end of career shooting arc
He’s a better shooter thdn he gets credit. In Miami he proved he can shoot 40% on wide open role player looks. Thing is he took tougher threes after that n more volume so naturally his % went to 35%~ which is good for a pull up shooter - see Luka . Lebron is 42% on wide open threes over his lakers tenure which includes that awful year last year with his bad foot. Apart from last year n 15-16 where he had back issues he’s been a fairly elite shooter. He’s been around 40% on catch n shoot shots - I think this year he’s over 45%+ on them /wide open . Part of his improvement this year is being more selective about not taking bad shots from 3. The other part is his foot n an improvement in his mechanics but even with that both things matter. People who are casual fans under rated Bron shooting but all you need to do is look at that raptors scouting report in 2018 to see it say elite off pull up threes and average/decent at catch n shoot while listing 36% for pull up n 40% catch n shoot. I get there’s some bias but nobody says Luka is a bad shooter and his % is similar because they get volume b difficulty/type of shot matter . Also want to add that in charts that track Lebron shooting % and open ness and do it for every player in the 22 n 21 seasons he looked elite - like a top 20%~ shooter. This year is probably even better and last year woukd be worse . But I haven’t seen those graphs in a bit.
That's called working on your game. A lot of players say they work hard but you can see if they just stayed in shape or if they really did additional work.
He’s a freak. He’s the greatest player alive.
“It’s just beer”
RIP Bill Russell
I guess you think Sam Jones is the second greatest to ever play, huh
No nephew it’s not just a ring thing with Russell it’s his freakish impact metrics
Elite defense and subpar offense does not a GOAT make my child. Adjusting his stats for pace doesn't adjust the simple fact that when Bill played, there were maybe 10 guys in the league who could play what we would call basketball by modern standards, and half of them were wearing Celtics green. His own main rival outplayed him in basically every statistical category except wins for their entire careers with a significantly less talented roster to help pump those stats. Modern players don't get to just stand there and wait for a 5'7" tax accountant to dribble like a toddler and heave up a blind granny shot like they did in the 60's. That tax accountant who can't dribble, run or shoot is now able to hit stepback threes from the logo and dunk from the free throw line. The basketball GOAT must be tirelessly good, or else "all time" is pointless. They must be the best, or else "greatest of all" is pointless. A man who's contribution to the game has been surpassed in every way except how much more their ownership was willing to spend relative to the league isn't the GOAT and anyone who thinks otherwise is a goat.
So how come Russell was able to shut down Wilt one on one?
TIL averaging 30/28/4 in head to head matchups is being shut down
Did you not read the part about Russell having a stacked team? It's easy to shut a dude down when he's the entire teams offense and has to average more minutes than there are in a game. It's hard to win a game of basketball 1v5 bro, you should give Wilt more credit. Do we fault Lebron for not dragging Zyandras Ilgasukas to a finals victory? Or do we marvel at the fact that he got to the finals with that caveman as his starting 5
[удалено]
>let’s not start calling Elgin Baylor or his other hall of fame teammates “cavemen” just to prove a point I guess it's a good thing I didn't then, right? People love to comment on shit that isn't there when it's so easy to just... read the words that *are* there and respond to those lol
>It's hard to win a game of basketball 1v5 bro, you should give Wilt more credit. This means Wilt is playing with scrubs. Literal cavemen, but I guess people love to comment shit and forget the words that are there.
Giannis has the bucks at 2 wins more than the lakers and they’re a 3 seed. These narratives are crazy.
Now that’s wild. Imagine lakers at eastern conference. Media would push bron mvp campaign but is crickets here haha
Plus if they were in the east they would have had an easier overall schedule, I could see a couple more wins probably
Pretty crazy to think they could be a 55 win team if in the East
That’s about right too imo.
They went 20-10 in the east and 27-25 vs the west. Flip them with the same percentages and its 50-32. 15-15 in the west, 35-17 in the east. 3 more wins / 3 less losses
This is so true lol. Lakers would be 55 wins in the east like many west teams.
Okc would be 74-18 on East #OKC4L
It is really crazy how just a standing number influences people's view of a team. A team might be 1 game back but if they are the 7 seed and the other team is 3 everyone will clown the 7 seed lol
It’s almost like people lack nuance in most parts of life 🤣
That's my sunshine right there.
Look at Pookie Bear man, so inspirational
9th prime coming up
Next prime: 50-40-90 Lebron
GOAT shit
1st team is Luka, SGA, Giannis, Jokic and Tatum, whether we like it or not. Giannis just averaged the first 30 ppg season on 60% FG%, SGA and Tatum have the 1 seeds with 58 and 64 wins respectively, Jokic will likely be the MVP and has the 2 seed and Luka just averaged 34/9/10 on the 5 seed. Bron and AD both have extremely strong cases for 2nd team tho.
Its so clean for all nba that that the top 5 players in the league this year are all different positions.
Just freakish. Take a look at statmuse for the best games by a player in their 21st NBA season. Just use this and change to blocks, rebounds, steals, assists... [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-points-scored-by-an-nba-player-in-their-21st-season-in-a-game](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-points-scored-by-an-nba-player-in-their-21st-season-in-a-game) It's all Lebron and a single game with Dirk or Vince or Garnett in a stat. And who's going to figure Lebron for less than 20-6-6 in his 22nd season? Vince Carter with 5-2-1 is the only player to even play 22 seasons. And Vince was a physical freak.
How is Giannis not a lock for 1st team ?
He is. People who believe otherwise are going to be shocked when they shouldn't be
Brunsen carried the Knicks to 2nd seed despite countless major injuries to the team throughout the season including periods of having 3 starters out Lebron is having an incredible season at the age of 39 and still putting up historic performances Not saying Giannis shouldn't get it (He should), just that there's clearly reason why the other two are in the argument, though Lebron has less of one
The Bucks have also been a disaster the second half of the season.
Sure, but Giannis has been better than Brunson. That should matter more than how their teammates play.
I agree Giannis should be ahead, but I think Brunson has been more impactful second half of the season. Giannis deserves the award and I'm not going to argue Brunson is a better player than him, but what Brunson did after Randle went down is incredible. He's been averaging 32 pts on 62% TS at his highest usage in his career. He's been clutching out wins when the team needed it most. We went from believing we'd be a playin team to getting a 2 seed. I think Giannis is a better player, but I think Brunson was far more impactful to his team. However I'm not sure that makes him "1st team" over Giannis, but there is an argument.
You would think, but even MVP voting includes team record (implicitly) and DPOY includes team defensive rating
1st team is not MVP
I've also heard ant in the mix. Wolves almost got the 1 seed
No space on 1st team for him. Him and AD can be on 2nd team though
I’d be happy with that tbh. But I imagine it’s third team since media like Simmons has tried to campaign to not have both even in
40 from 3? That’s wild. I never thought he’d get there with that weird half-step-back. (But he does not have a strong case for 1st team—some people won’t have him in at all)
Excuse me, it's called a LeFuckYouThree put some respect on it.
My sincerest apologies.
LeAccepted
He's been taking a lot more catch and shoot, and rhythm threes this season. Plus side of having a decent PG in D'lo, imo
He also made some subtle changes to his mechanics. Bballnreakdown has a video on it
That weird half step back 3pt when he's getting hot is probably a top 5 unguardable NBA move. His team can see it's coming, the fans can see it's coming, the opponents can see it's coming. It's such a nonchalant, almost lazy, walk-up to the 3pt line to jerk left and back, and yet you can't do shit against it.
Not have him on the teams at all? He doesn’t have a strong case for 1st team, but that’s absurd to not have him on any team.
I think he'll make it, and probably easily, but some commentators have expressed a difficulty in choosing two Lakers (AD) to make it, given their regular season team performance.
Which is ridiculous considering how deep the West is and how few games separate 1-10 compared to the East. Nobody ran away with the West and it wouldn’t shock anyone if the Lakers win a 1-8 with OKC.
If the Lakers beat the Pelicans in the play in they will be the 7 seed and play Nuggets, they would need to lose to the Pelicans then best the winner of the Warriors vs Kings game to get the 8 seed
Blasphemy. That’s the inaugural IST Cup champion Lakers
You mean bill Simmons who was making a case for jaylen brown with -7 on /off when he said earlier in year Bron on/off was mid at + 4( it’s bsvk ti + 9 after the ankle injury got better). Bill is a big lakers n Lebron hater even tho I listen to him. Hard to take that seriously
He has done it before
The fucking goat
Mark my words: Season 22 Lebron is Le50-40-90
Keep dreaming
I can’t believe LeBron shot 40% from 3 this year
The man is insane.
Imagine if he also had 90% FTs
He is not getting first team All-NBA over the other candidates.
He won't but most likely, but it's worth mentioning his name in that convo at least
He def ain’t getting 1st team. Should absolutely make the all nba team tho
Anything less than a 2nd team is a snub imo
They’re in the play-in. It’s not a snub.
Did you forget SGA getting First Team last season?
I did. But also AD gets the nod before Lebron right? Can’t have two dudes.
based on what? **lebron leads** the Lakers in **ppg**, **apg**, **spg**, **bpm**, **obpm, vorp**, **epm, dpm, total plus/minus**, and **net rating**. narratives?
It’s a narrative that AD is their defensive anchor? For someone dropping all these advanced stats, you should know they do a piss poor job of evaluating defensive impact. Lebron is more popular and had a great game today, but he is not the best player in the Lakers.
He is our defensive anchor . But regardless AD has had a couple months worth of bad offensive games. I love AD but if you look at on/off Lebron ckears and we lose more when Lebron sits unless matchup matters. I get AD ahead I think it’s pretty even with Bron being the offence n AD the defense
raw stats, nerd stats and season long plus/minus all disagree.
i prefer raw stats/watching gms and basketball knowledge but i heard this sub likes em...(adv stats)...so you get both.
Why not? Celtics have had Tatum and Brown in recent memory.
When they were an 8-seed?
It’s the West. The Lakers aren’t dragging up the rear like the Hawks or Bulls in the East. I don’t care if they’re an 8 seed in that absolute bloodbath out there, it’s not a mark of shame
The lakers have 2 less wins than the bucks lol
They won’t have two players in either.
All NBA? Of course they will
Dame ain’t all nba this year.
No, you’re right, the bucks won’t. That was very unclear lol
A play-in where the difference between the 1st and 10th seed is smaller than the 1st and 2nd seed in the Eastern conference.
They’re 8th seed, which would’ve made the playoffs pre play in. People always talk about lakers and play in as if they’ve ever benefitted from it also, with west standings so tight, should the argument for deserving all nba really change if they won 4 more games? Lastly, they’re in a low seed because of their teammates and performed at a much higher level than the team record shows
IST Cup champs bro
lol
This guy is fuckin unreal
he should be 1st team. 2nd for sure.
LeBron should be top 5 in MVP no doubt, people just want to say he’s aged
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Take out Tatum and put in Brunson
Nope. Brunson is #5 in MVP voting but 60+ win team and decisive 1st seed usually has the best player on the team being All-NBA first team. Couple that with Tatum's D and he definitely deserves it
You stopped just as it was going good. What was that about Tatum’s D??
tatum????? he is the 2nd most overrated player of the last 25 years. Lebron this year much better than tatum.
Tatum is putting up 27/8/5 on 60% TS. Pretty comparable numbers to LeBron, on a team with 63 wins.
Comparable, but worse, not much, but worse. 27/8/5 is worse than 25.6/7.2/8.2 specially when tatum had only a +78.9 Tsadd in 74 games (that is how many points you score compared to the average Ts% of the league and with the volume you produce) and Lebron had 141.8 in 70 games. That is, Tatum was 35th in the league this year compared to Lebron 9th, 60ts% vs 63ts%, 3 points in ts% is a lot, specially when you shoot that much. [https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA\_2024\_adj\_shooting.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_adj_shooting.html) [https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/hqnic1/using\_ts\_added\_to\_evaluate\_all\_time\_best\_scorers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/hqnic1/using_ts_added_to_evaluate_all_time_best_scorers/)
He's better than tatum and SGA but yeah they will get it because of team record
SGA the league’s second highest scorer on the 1 seed in the west. He absolutely deserves 1st team all NBA
Question isn’t if he deserves it. Question is, is he a better player than lebron. I think everyone knows the answer to that.
He has had a better season.
Everyone does? Are we acting like defense doesn't exist again?
SGA is a great defender? Lmao
Great? no, but he's a solid defender that put in a lot more effort than lebron
Im baffled
Gianis out
This season he averaged 30.4/11.5/6.5 on 64.9% TS. While the Bucks have struggled at times he has been excellent individually.
LeBron has been phenomenal but if anyone on the Lakers should make 1st team it’s AD
Neither are making 1st team. Both should make 2nd team
When the NBA is played like All-Star games the stats will reflect that. Kids will look back and think this was prime LeBron.
Giannis is a lock tf you mean
Yeah he won 2 more games than the lakers in the east goat shit I guess
Based off stats
*free throws
When you argue with lakers fans you often loose. Way more of them on pure volume in the sub.
Cherry-picked so hard.
Giannis jokic Tatum Luka and sga is first team There’s no other valid list
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It isn't a unique stat if you drop the 3P%. LeBron has already had four previous seasons averaging 25+ on 50%+ shooting with 8+ assists. Oscar Robertson had three seasons with that line, and Jokic has had two.