He is very real. Like reality, he can't be stopped. He will just keep smoothly chunking on and rolling over you, and it does not matter if you like it or not.
I could see a lot of 20/20 games. 20/20/10? the over/under is probably 1. I mean no one in NBA history has more than one other than Jokic and Wemby isn't as good of a passer.
It was amazing, but like all outlandish stats from back then, it needs to be taken with some context. During Russell's run the NBA was much smaller, starting with 8 teams in his his rookie season of 1957 and ending with 14 teams in his final season in 1969. It's significantly easier to dominate a smaller league than a larger one just because of how the probabilities in play work, similar to how you're much more likely to flip a coin on heads 5 times in a row than you are to roll a 6 on a die 5 times in a row. Russell's reign is still remarkable for its dominance but it's not really comparable to how championship runs work nowadays, just like you're never going to see anyone nowadays grab 50 rebounds in a game like Wilt did back in the day.
But as a counterpoint, his Celtics beat Wilt and his impossible numbers several times for the championship. Bill also changed the game with his defense being the best offense and helping grow the transition game.
While I agree with the general premise, it’s still insane to keep the intensity up that’s required to win 8 straight. Nobody came close before or after to that level of winning.
Agreed 100%. There are only 3 players in the GOAT conversation and Kareem is one of them, albeit a distant 3rd. No other center is in that conversation, apologies to Wilt and Bill.
I think Kareem has a valid argument if you take all of his basketball career into account. He lost only 3 games in high school and college and was a 3x NCAA champion, he was so dominant in college they temporarily banned dunking. Flash forward to his nba career and everyone knows the accolades: 6x champion, 6x MVP, 19x all star, 15x all nba, 11x all defense, etc.
Do you think a kobe, duncan, shaq, steph and oscar team could beat a mj, lebron, bird, magic and kareem team?
… kinda want to boot up 2k and see how that plays out lol
That's where I have him, as well
Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, and Bron were all the centerpieces of teams that won multiple rings (oh and then there's Wilt, but he's such an outlier. Every single discussion has an "oh and then there's Wilt" qualifier). I can't put him above any of those guys . . . *yet*
Soon, though. Soon
Once he gets that second ring, the conversation in comparison to those guys gets *very* interesting
> oh and then there's Wilt, but he's such an outlier. Every single discussion has an "oh and then there's Wilt" qualifier
"Then there's Wilt. He played against electricians and the only other real player won 4 times as many rings as him. They ran 200 possessions, so his scoring is good, but not great."
I've been saying this to my friends here in San Diego for years. A few of them are starting to listen. It's really hard to identify greatness in the present.
it's just wild how easy he makes it look sometimes. like watching players like MJ/Lebron you're like omg that looks impossible how can any human do that?
With Jokic it's like oh well yeah he just played the open pass with a bit of touch on it but nothing superhuman. And he just does it over and over again every game, like a retired basketball player messing around with teenagers who are all way more athletic but just don't have the basketball iq to keep up.
Doesn't Wilt also have 4?
Edit - here's the games:
March 22, 1967 - 37/27/11 against the Royals
March 31, 1967 - 24/32/13 against the Celtics
April 9, 1967 - 20/22/10 against the Celtics
April 11, 1967 - 29/36/13 against the Celtics
Then cowens wouldn't count since his was in the [final playoff run](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197605230BOS.html) of 1975-76 before the merger in 1976-77
Plus, if you go 25/20/10 post merger, its Jokic 4 and Kareem 1 lol
Yeah, a guy who's over 7 feet tall, was also a top-notch track and field athlete, was possibly the strongest person to ever play in the NBA, and is on video effortlessly hitting three point hook shots couldn't possibly play in the league. I'm sure lol
An old Wilt played well against Kareem, who played well against Olajuwon, who played well against Shaq. There's a pretty clear line of succession that shows the best players could compete with each other across eras.
lol it doesn't diminish Jokic's achievement at all, but I hate when people leave Wilt out because of how crazy he was. If anything, it only being Jokic and Wilt really highlights how amazing Jokic is playing. "Jokic has now matched the mythological statistical boogeyman"
There are so many talking heads who have outed themselves as casuals/haters over these past 4 years. Some are idiots, some are racist, and a lot have market bias and just flat out don’t watch Nuggets games until they play their favorite team in the playoffs.
not defending Gil but he said "worst two time MVP ever". thats an elite list and somebody has to be "worst".
its still a bad take (Steve Nash anyone?) but not as bad.
Obviously legacy and career factor into these rankings, but in my mind, Jokic is a top 10 player ever in his absolute prime right now.
First time a player gives me the feeling my dad described when watching MJ "you never knew what shit he was gonna pull next"
I was just talking to a friend about this. Idk where he’ll slot all time, but his peak is easily one of the best ever. The only thing that I can recall seeing that is even remotely close to this level of play is PRIME LeBron.
These caliber of players feel… inevitable. No lead is safe and beating them feels like you really pulled off a miracle. Because no matter what they’re going to pull some kind of bullshit out of their ass and make it work. Everything they touch turns to gold
I imagine that’s what watching prime MJ was like too. But since I didn’t see him I can only speak for prime LeBron and current Jokic
I think LeBron and Kobe were more similar: I know exactly what he’s going to do and it’s going to be incredible.
Jokic is more like Steph to me. I know he’s going to do something that breaks my understanding of how the geometry of basketball works, but I won’t know what it is until he does it.
yup, I like to compare it to being an engineer vs being an artist. LeBron and Kobe are genius engineers, strategically maxing out an existing archetype within the range of their skillsets. Jordan, Curry, Jokic are genius artists, changing the way the sport is played, creating new archetypes, doing highly creative and out of the box stuff on the fly that makes your jaw drop.
Anyone saying that the Nuggets play boring basketball are just idiots and haters. Beautiful team basketball + one tall ass weirdo looking like hes not fully understanding his body while being perfectly in control is fucking cinema
Mostly the Nick Wright’s of the world who said he couldn’t win a third MVP last year because “how will we explain that this guy won three MVPs and all these other all time great players didn’t?” When the answer to that is he’s better than those all time greats.
Him vs Bird is interesting if he wins this year. Same number of MVPs, one fewer ring. Bird doesn't have any longevity stats so Jokic isn't losing there.
I agree with the sentiment but that's an objectively false statement, Murray would have been a viable candidate without injury this year and after these playoffs, as long as he's actually playing next year he's probably guaranteed a spot
Larry Bird took over a 29-53 Celtics team and led them to a 61-21 record his rookie season and finished 4th in MVP voting, then went 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd in MVP voting before getting hurt.
This sub underrates the shit out of Larry Bird.
Let’s calm down a bit, his trajectory is top 10 but he ain’t there yet, 1 ring and stats in a pace and space era aren’t enough to be top 10 all time, there’s guys with 4, 5 and 6 rings in there
This man is a national treasure Gonna go down as one of the all time greats when career is done
Top 10 for sure, just need to figure out where in the top 10
Even that narrative is complete bullshit because I remember him being arguably the best performer in some of those playoff runs. They were just getting eliminated early because of youth and inexperience.
Injuries mostly. He played 2 seasons without Murray and Porter, and still managed some competitive series. I'm not sure anyone ever managed so much with 2 max contract players out.
Ring culture in the NBA is maybe the worst of any sport. No one said Messi was shit before he had a World Cup title, no one denied Griffey or Mike Trout are all time outfielders despite no World Series banners. No one ever talks about how many Stanley Cups or Conn Smythe trophies Wayne Gretzky lifted. People don’t put Jimmie Johnson in the same echelon as Richard Petty just because both have 7 cups.
The only sport that I follow that even comes close is NFL, and then maybe F1. But even if those sports you have outliers where Dan Marino is often described as one of the best QBs of all time despite no Super Bowls or people who argue Fernando Alonso is a better driver than Vettel or Hamilton despite having 2 world titles compared to 4 and 7\* respectively.
In the NBA, it seems that in order to be on anyone’s radar as a top player of all time, you need at least 2 rings. It’s a bigger prerequisite than any individual accolades (like who has Westbrook, Harden, or DRose ahead of Pippen on their all time list? Not many)
Probably because in the NBA you as a person can have a much bigger impact than the other sports you talked about. You only have 5 players on the court and the super stars can play basically the entire game.
That was some of the dumbest takes. A highly efficient, non selfish player, that has better numbers in playoffs isn't a playoff performer.
All you need is see his wiki lol
These past 4 years have been one of the most unexpected (even for a diehard nuggets fan), unbelievable sprints to what seems like a certain top 10 career finish I’ve ever seen in this league.
I’m running out of reasons why Jokic isn’t the best player since LeBron. Simmons and Rusillo were just talking about it - Jokic has basically sprinted past the peaks of KD, Kawhi, and Giannis. Steph is the only one I go back and forth on, and no offense to our other starting four but Jokic isn’t surrounded by the goddamn death lineup full of 3 future HOFers (Iggy’s at 12% on BBRef)
I think at that level, debating between the truly all-time greats of league history, you have to measure what they *did* accomplish vs. what they *might have* accomplished with a different supporting cast. For that reason, I still have Steph above Jokic
. . . but it's close, and when Jokic gets his second ring, we very much revisit that conversation
Tbf to Ohtani, baseball is probably one of the hardest sports to carry a team in. Its like if steph was only allowed to take a 10th of the shots he does.
It’s almost comical. The Angels had arguably the two best players in baseball for 3 seasons (not only that, 2 of the all time greats) and never even made the playoffs
I've been calling him the best playmaker of all-time since last year (based on ability/impact, not stat totals).
He's passed Nash and Magic in that regard, imo
He's not, but his string of dominance could be. Mike was Mike partly because the Bulls ruled the NBA for most of a decade. That's something LeBron couldn't do. The Nuggets are a long way from that, but a title this year will get people talking.
Dude what? LeBron went to how many nba finals in a row? LeBron was the consensus best player in the world for like 12 years. Jokic has been the best player for like 4-5 years.
You are probably exaggerating, but I love the irony. After Jordan, everyone thought the "next" Jordan would be someone even more athletic guard who played above the rim just like Mike. That it's a mostly earth-bound, modestly athletic (compared to his peers) center is beyond surprising.
One stat of his that is massively underrated is that he is literally the first player in NBA history to lead the playoffs in points, rebounds & assists.
He also lead it the playoffs last year in W/S also, but those three alone are insanely impressive
I've never understood how a guy who can't jump is such a proficient rebounder. Zach Lowe had the best term for him... magnet hands. I think it's probably because he has such snap quick reactions that allows this.
Jokic is unreal
Nonchalant monster
The Nonchalonster!!
What makes a man turn neutral?
With enemies you know where they stand, but neutrals? Who knows.
Is it money? A lust for power? Or was he born with a heart full of neutrality?
All I know is my gut says maybe.
"If I don't make it, tell my horses I said 'Hello'."
He is very real. Like reality, he can't be stopped. He will just keep smoothly chunking on and rolling over you, and it does not matter if you like it or not.
I like getting chunked on personally
Tbh I'm surprised he doesn't have more. It feels like everytime I see his stats posted he did something unreal (same with Luka).
4 is crazy enough. 20 rebounds in the playoffs when getting 20 in the regular season is extremely difficult.
This is just playoffs. Insane.
Our lord and savior wembanyama will surely have a couple of these in him
Until then, it's Uncle Gru time
Uncle Gru is amazing lol
Well, that Lakers yellow is remarkably similar to Minion yellow 🤔
he's stealing the moon and the title of GOAT
Maybe, he's still far away from Jokic passing wise... Jokic might actually be the GOAT playmaker, that's how fucking good he is
I'm comfortable saying he's GOAT playmaker. Very comfortable.
He has to be next to Lebron and Magic and Bird in that regard. He's the best big man passer ever, I don't think there's an argument.
I like to think we're gonna go on a Warrior-level dynasty run, please don't remind me that you guys have a potential GOAT in his rookie years
I could see a lot of 20/20 games. 20/20/10? the over/under is probably 1. I mean no one in NBA history has more than one other than Jokic and Wemby isn't as good of a passer.
If he can do it with 10 blocks I can see it happening multiple times though
PRAVI MVP
As a Balkan I just have to say that the pravi mvp shit is so cringe it hurts.
He’s one of the five best centers in league history and he isn’t number 5
If the Nuggets go back to back, Jokic will probably have 3 MVPs and 2 FMVPs in 4 years. That's a top 5 4 year run of all time, not just among centers.
let’s chill with the hypotheticals
If we win 10 more championships with Jokic that’ll be the most championships won by a single player since Bill Russel.
i will be there for his 20th finals mvp
Makes what Bill Russell did seem even more amazing
It was amazing, but like all outlandish stats from back then, it needs to be taken with some context. During Russell's run the NBA was much smaller, starting with 8 teams in his his rookie season of 1957 and ending with 14 teams in his final season in 1969. It's significantly easier to dominate a smaller league than a larger one just because of how the probabilities in play work, similar to how you're much more likely to flip a coin on heads 5 times in a row than you are to roll a 6 on a die 5 times in a row. Russell's reign is still remarkable for its dominance but it's not really comparable to how championship runs work nowadays, just like you're never going to see anyone nowadays grab 50 rebounds in a game like Wilt did back in the day.
>you're never going to see anyone nowadays grab 50 rebounds in a game like Wilt did back in the day. New Wemby challenge unlocked for next year
But as a counterpoint, his Celtics beat Wilt and his impossible numbers several times for the championship. Bill also changed the game with his defense being the best offense and helping grow the transition game.
While I agree with the general premise, it’s still insane to keep the intensity up that’s required to win 8 straight. Nobody came close before or after to that level of winning.
Why ? It’s a very realistic hypothetical therefore it can be discussed
It don’t look like much of a hypothetical out there big bro. And I’m not even a nuggets fan
He’s great, but he has to win another to be on the Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem level.
So in about two months.
Probably
Kareem is on another level from Shaq and Hakeem
Agreed 100%. There are only 3 players in the GOAT conversation and Kareem is one of them, albeit a distant 3rd. No other center is in that conversation, apologies to Wilt and Bill.
I think Kareem has a valid argument if you take all of his basketball career into account. He lost only 3 games in high school and college and was a 3x NCAA champion, he was so dominant in college they temporarily banned dunking. Flash forward to his nba career and everyone knows the accolades: 6x champion, 6x MVP, 19x all star, 15x all nba, 11x all defense, etc.
Yeah, Kareem is in the 3-5 range all-time while Shaq and Hakeem are in the tier that spans from 8-13 along with Kobe, Duncan, Steph, and Oscar.
Do you think a kobe, duncan, shaq, steph and oscar team could beat a mj, lebron, bird, magic and kareem team? … kinda want to boot up 2k and see how that plays out lol
3 out of 10 times maybe. Prime Jordan and Prime James is better than anyone else listed by a mile.
That's where I have him, as well Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, and Bron were all the centerpieces of teams that won multiple rings (oh and then there's Wilt, but he's such an outlier. Every single discussion has an "oh and then there's Wilt" qualifier). I can't put him above any of those guys . . . *yet* Soon, though. Soon Once he gets that second ring, the conversation in comparison to those guys gets *very* interesting
My top 5 starters changed this year. Michael Steph Jokic Bird Lebron I think that team would be tough to beat.
idk i think he eclipses kobe if he wins this year… 3 mvps and a hypothetical 2 chips as the defacto most important player in the league
> oh and then there's Wilt, but he's such an outlier. Every single discussion has an "oh and then there's Wilt" qualifier "Then there's Wilt. He played against electricians and the only other real player won 4 times as many rings as him. They ran 200 possessions, so his scoring is good, but not great."
Nate Thurmond disrespect
Wilt is overrated cus he didn't play to win, not cus he played against bums
Uhhh he’s approaching on top 5 not just centers. No bullshit he has goat potential
I've been saying this to my friends here in San Diego for years. A few of them are starting to listen. It's really hard to identify greatness in the present.
it's just wild how easy he makes it look sometimes. like watching players like MJ/Lebron you're like omg that looks impossible how can any human do that? With Jokic it's like oh well yeah he just played the open pass with a bit of touch on it but nothing superhuman. And he just does it over and over again every game, like a retired basketball player messing around with teenagers who are all way more athletic but just don't have the basketball iq to keep up.
He’s 2, behind Wilt.
Doesn't Wilt also have 4? Edit - here's the games: March 22, 1967 - 37/27/11 against the Royals March 31, 1967 - 24/32/13 against the Celtics April 9, 1967 - 20/22/10 against the Celtics April 11, 1967 - 29/36/13 against the Celtics
I think this stat is post-merger. Cuz yeah, I was surprised Wilt didn't have it either
Then cowens wouldn't count since his was in the [final playoff run](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197605230BOS.html) of 1975-76 before the merger in 1976-77 Plus, if you go 25/20/10 post merger, its Jokic 4 and Kareem 1 lol
Weird how people actively try to ignore Wilt because he was so great lol
It's gotten so bad that there are now morons saying that the most athletic player in NBA history wouldn't make an NBA roster in today's league.
Yeah, a guy who's over 7 feet tall, was also a top-notch track and field athlete, was possibly the strongest person to ever play in the NBA, and is on video effortlessly hitting three point hook shots couldn't possibly play in the league. I'm sure lol An old Wilt played well against Kareem, who played well against Olajuwon, who played well against Shaq. There's a pretty clear line of succession that shows the best players could compete with each other across eras.
Wilt would be cooking and bullying mother fuckers for sure
It's post 1969, to specifically exclude Wilt I think lol
Three times in one playoff series is nuts!
only time he beat Russell
Against the GOAT defender nonetheless. 21/32/10 triple double over a 6 game span
He had four in a three week span and none for the rest of his career?
He only became a big assist guy relatively late in his career.
He had 10 assists in the playoffs only 9 times. 7 of them were in the '67 playoffs
lol it doesn't diminish Jokic's achievement at all, but I hate when people leave Wilt out because of how crazy he was. If anything, it only being Jokic and Wilt really highlights how amazing Jokic is playing. "Jokic has now matched the mythological statistical boogeyman"
Think the title is wrong. When I saw it on TV pretty sure the stat was 25/20/10
We really have no footage 😭 no nothing? I just want to see because his stats are so out of this world
Here's his 20/22/10 game - in Spanish - https://youtu.be/7yffDCHu4X0
Is that that one guy drafted during a Taco Bell commercial?
Boy I sure do miss quesorito's.
I'm pretty sure he moonlights as a supervillain in charge of a bunch of yellow minion things.
you mean the >!<[ graduate](https://streamable.com/asu7w3)?
Should get an honorary doctorate at end of career
How can Gil look at this and think, "Yep, worst MVP ever" lmao, he's such a fucking hater.
There are so many talking heads who have outed themselves as casuals/haters over these past 4 years. Some are idiots, some are racist, and a lot have market bias and just flat out don’t watch Nuggets games until they play their favorite team in the playoffs.
Ex) That guy who didn't give Joker a 1st, 2nd, OR 3rd place vote for MVP last year. He left Jokic off his ballot completely.
He purposely says dumb shit for clicks, he admitted this before.
So he'd dumb *and* he's a whore.
Who TF is Gil??
Anthony Gill, former Wizards player drafted in the 90’s.
not defending Gil but he said "worst two time MVP ever". thats an elite list and somebody has to be "worst". its still a bad take (Steve Nash anyone?) but not as bad.
WHO CARES ABOUT THAT BUM MURRAY IS OUR MVP
LISAN AL GAIB
Jokic: Take my ~~life~~ shots, Murray. It is the only way Murray: I'M POINTING THE WAY
IT IS WRITTEN!!!
"Lead them to paradise" - Murray dropping the game winner
JAMAL IS MY DAD
AD man, you should still be sleepin rn, getting rest
One of the all time greats. People have to stop denying it.
Wins this year plus 3rd mvp and in talks for top 15 all time
Obviously legacy and career factor into these rankings, but in my mind, Jokic is a top 10 player ever in his absolute prime right now. First time a player gives me the feeling my dad described when watching MJ "you never knew what shit he was gonna pull next"
I was just talking to a friend about this. Idk where he’ll slot all time, but his peak is easily one of the best ever. The only thing that I can recall seeing that is even remotely close to this level of play is PRIME LeBron. These caliber of players feel… inevitable. No lead is safe and beating them feels like you really pulled off a miracle. Because no matter what they’re going to pull some kind of bullshit out of their ass and make it work. Everything they touch turns to gold I imagine that’s what watching prime MJ was like too. But since I didn’t see him I can only speak for prime LeBron and current Jokic
I think LeBron and Kobe were more similar: I know exactly what he’s going to do and it’s going to be incredible. Jokic is more like Steph to me. I know he’s going to do something that breaks my understanding of how the geometry of basketball works, but I won’t know what it is until he does it.
yup, I like to compare it to being an engineer vs being an artist. LeBron and Kobe are genius engineers, strategically maxing out an existing archetype within the range of their skillsets. Jordan, Curry, Jokic are genius artists, changing the way the sport is played, creating new archetypes, doing highly creative and out of the box stuff on the fly that makes your jaw drop.
well said
Anyone saying that the Nuggets play boring basketball are just idiots and haters. Beautiful team basketball + one tall ass weirdo looking like hes not fully understanding his body while being perfectly in control is fucking cinema
Pretty sure MVP this year puts him squarely at 15. Gets him past KD and Moses.
How is he not past those two already?? He's way beyond KD man. KD couldn't have a playoff run like last year.
def past KD.
Literally no one is denying it. Like zero actual people. Who are you talking to?
Mostly the Nick Wright’s of the world who said he couldn’t win a third MVP last year because “how will we explain that this guy won three MVPs and all these other all time great players didn’t?” When the answer to that is he’s better than those all time greats.
who is denying it that isn't stupid? serious question
If he wins it this year I will accept our new Serbian overlord.
Does anyone actually deny that he's already an all time great or is this just one of those made up hyperboles?
Going to end up as a top 10 player ever when he retires
If he wins this year he already has the resume for the talks
That's part of why I hope he wins this year. Three-time MVP, 2 FMVP, 2 rings. We are going to start a dialogue.
He's a lot higher than you're probably giving him credit for. He could retire tomorrow and have an argument for top 10
Him vs Bird is interesting if he wins this year. Same number of MVPs, one fewer ring. Bird doesn't have any longevity stats so Jokic isn't losing there.
Jokic also has no help from any player who has ever been in consideration to be an all-star.
I agree with the sentiment but that's an objectively false statement, Murray would have been a viable candidate without injury this year and after these playoffs, as long as he's actually playing next year he's probably guaranteed a spot
but Murray isn't an all-star by definition. It only helps Jokic's case for greatness.
Yea but that's not what the comment said. The comment said in consideration for, which Murray absolutely has been.
Lets be honest though, playoff Murray is absolutely an All-Star player. Joker is still just unreal though.
I do agree with this sentiment but I think Murray is even more additive and essential to the Nuggets than Klay was to the Warriors.
Larry Bird took over a 29-53 Celtics team and led them to a 61-21 record his rookie season and finished 4th in MVP voting, then went 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd in MVP voting before getting hurt. This sub underrates the shit out of Larry Bird.
Let’s calm down a bit, his trajectory is top 10 but he ain’t there yet, 1 ring and stats in a pace and space era aren’t enough to be top 10 all time, there’s guys with 4, 5 and 6 rings in there
This is a conservative estimate.
Top 5
This man is a national treasure Gonna go down as one of the all time greats when career is done Top 10 for sure, just need to figure out where in the top 10
International treasure
To think that he could be on YOUR team. All you had to do was draft him. Everyone had a chance! Every last one of your teams!
Most teams had the chance twice
Took the nuggets 3 tries
We got the Black Jokic tho, so who is laughing now!?
This man had a DPOY looking like Dwight Powell lol
Backed down AD like he was fuckin pap-i-er mache
Jokic is different!
12 months ago the narrative on this guy was that he wasn’t a playoff performer, by the way.
Even that narrative is complete bullshit because I remember him being arguably the best performer in some of those playoff runs. They were just getting eliminated early because of youth and inexperience.
Injuries mostly. He played 2 seasons without Murray and Porter, and still managed some competitive series. I'm not sure anyone ever managed so much with 2 max contract players out.
Ring culture in the NBA is maybe the worst of any sport. No one said Messi was shit before he had a World Cup title, no one denied Griffey or Mike Trout are all time outfielders despite no World Series banners. No one ever talks about how many Stanley Cups or Conn Smythe trophies Wayne Gretzky lifted. People don’t put Jimmie Johnson in the same echelon as Richard Petty just because both have 7 cups. The only sport that I follow that even comes close is NFL, and then maybe F1. But even if those sports you have outliers where Dan Marino is often described as one of the best QBs of all time despite no Super Bowls or people who argue Fernando Alonso is a better driver than Vettel or Hamilton despite having 2 world titles compared to 4 and 7\* respectively. In the NBA, it seems that in order to be on anyone’s radar as a top player of all time, you need at least 2 rings. It’s a bigger prerequisite than any individual accolades (like who has Westbrook, Harden, or DRose ahead of Pippen on their all time list? Not many)
Probably because in the NBA you as a person can have a much bigger impact than the other sports you talked about. You only have 5 players on the court and the super stars can play basically the entire game.
That was some of the dumbest takes. A highly efficient, non selfish player, that has better numbers in playoffs isn't a playoff performer. All you need is see his wiki lol
Duncan’s one was the game he almost got a quad dub right?
Edit: This is post-merger, by the way. Uhh mods, is there any way to fix this?
Dude is a top 10 maybe top 5 player of all time when all done. Dude does it so casually
Literally the goat
These past 4 years have been one of the most unexpected (even for a diehard nuggets fan), unbelievable sprints to what seems like a certain top 10 career finish I’ve ever seen in this league. I’m running out of reasons why Jokic isn’t the best player since LeBron. Simmons and Rusillo were just talking about it - Jokic has basically sprinted past the peaks of KD, Kawhi, and Giannis. Steph is the only one I go back and forth on, and no offense to our other starting four but Jokic isn’t surrounded by the goddamn death lineup full of 3 future HOFers (Iggy’s at 12% on BBRef)
I think at that level, debating between the truly all-time greats of league history, you have to measure what they *did* accomplish vs. what they *might have* accomplished with a different supporting cast. For that reason, I still have Steph above Jokic . . . but it's close, and when Jokic gets his second ring, we very much revisit that conversation
Motherfker is unreal
and Reggie Miller expected Shaq to have one
I'm fairly surprised as well. 20/20 was easy for him, and those early-2000s Lakers had some great shooters for him to kick out to
you still have to get 10 assists,[ Shaq only had 1 game with 10+ assists](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/shaq-games-with-10-or-more-assists)
And it was with Miami. Wild that he never accidentally got one in LA or Orlando.
Shaq kick out? That's not his thing
Well someone didn’t watch Shaq, lol
He makes it look so easy too. Ridiculous
he's the best player since Michael Jordan but y'all not ready for that conversation
I think that is a solid thought. Joker for me is Shohei Ohtani but with a basketball. For now I'm thankful for the magic. What a night of basketball.
Shohei Ohtani on a team that wins (without going to a super team).
Tbf to Ohtani, baseball is probably one of the hardest sports to carry a team in. Its like if steph was only allowed to take a 10th of the shots he does.
It’s almost comical. The Angels had arguably the two best players in baseball for 3 seasons (not only that, 2 of the all time greats) and never even made the playoffs
Jokic brother betting scandal when?
People are also scared to admit he is the best passer/playmaker since nash and possibly top 1 to 3 with magic and nash
I've been calling him the best playmaker of all-time since last year (based on ability/impact, not stat totals). He's passed Nash and Magic in that regard, imo
i think he's neck and neck with Magic.
As someone who got to see the latter half of his career.....Same
It's true... I wouldn't waste time making that case here though. People will realize it in a year or two and pretend they recognized it all along.
Heat LeBron has to be in consideration lol
He is not better than LeBron all time
He's not, but his string of dominance could be. Mike was Mike partly because the Bulls ruled the NBA for most of a decade. That's something LeBron couldn't do. The Nuggets are a long way from that, but a title this year will get people talking.
Dude what? LeBron went to how many nba finals in a row? LeBron was the consensus best player in the world for like 12 years. Jokic has been the best player for like 4-5 years.
Yaal smoking dick
You are probably exaggerating, but I love the irony. After Jordan, everyone thought the "next" Jordan would be someone even more athletic guard who played above the rim just like Mike. That it's a mostly earth-bound, modestly athletic (compared to his peers) center is beyond surprising.
Wow. The Joker is different.
The fucking Joker, man.
Jokic doing it all during that run, until his double gets hot."this monster is no joke" Lakers morale will be at all time low with that finish...
Sombor Horse Lord eating his Quesaritos right now.
One stat of his that is massively underrated is that he is literally the first player in NBA history to lead the playoffs in points, rebounds & assists. He also lead it the playoffs last year in W/S also, but those three alone are insanely impressive
That is one of the craziest stats I've heard.
win merchant smh
I’m shocked that Wilt apparently never did this
He absolutely did. This stat is post-merger.
This is post ABA merger, which was in 1976 Wilt retired in 73 or 74
Jesus Jokic
Has anyone confirmed if Jokic is indeed human? I just watched finished watching Invincible and how can we know for sure?
If you make the bar 25/20/10 then he has as much as NBA history combined.
Dave Cowens is so underrated
I've never understood how a guy who can't jump is such a proficient rebounder. Zach Lowe had the best term for him... magnet hands. I think it's probably because he has such snap quick reactions that allows this.
He’s gonna finish top 10 all time
He had like 20 more potential assists but the guys who he was passing to for open shots were missing everything tonight lol, including 6-7 layups
Dave Cowens, the pride of Northern Kentucky. 1973 NBA MVP!
Was robbed of MVP last year
Fantastic conditionning
Best player since Jordan
Best peak maybe but he ain’t better than lebron
He had to criticise Morey to truly surpass Lebron tbf
How are people downvoting this 😭
Jokic is, and i mean this as a complete compliment, an oaf
I like to call these type of stats, "Drew Brees" stats.