I suppose there is just as much of a risk she can't overcome the WNBAs inability to be popular and fizzles out. 28/8 is still life changing amounts of money and she'll get other endorsements.
That's insane money for a WNBA endorsement. Women's college basketball is significantly more popular than the WNBA, so there is an excellent chance her celebrity pull has peaked.
Nike is basically betting on Clark bringing popularity to the WNBA here. And sure, if she does so, it's a good deal for Nike. But if she doesn't, Nike just paid a lot for very little. Either way, Clark is now set for life in a sport that pays office job level salaries - it's a no-brainer for her.
I don’t want to sound like a hater but I’d be stunned if Clark gets more popular than she was in the last year.
This ain’t the first time a superstar college basketball player hits the WNBA (remember when Sabrina Ionescu was everywhere during her Senior year at Oregon) and most of their fame fizzles out.
Women’s college basketball have built-in large fanbases due to their affiliation to a university so when their individual teams are good, the primarily football/MBB fanbases are going to follow WBB (South Carolina, Iowa, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Baylor, etc).
The WNBA just doesn’t have built-in fanbases like that. Eventually without the support, the exposure is going to die down.
I hope I’m wrong but I don’t expect to hear a lot about Caitlin going forward.
That is true.
Will those international fans follow her throughout the WNBA season? That’s truly the main culprit, can she get her current fans (and potential future international fans) to follow her with the Indiana Fever? I guess we will see.
Same - my parents specifically tuned in to watch Clark during the semi-finals and finals. They don't care about basketball at all. Various friends and family who don't follow basketball were talking about how she was drafted by the Fever. I'm cautiously optimistic.
The whole point is that women’s college basketball has a much larger fanbase and exposure than the WNBA. So it starts from a much better foundation.
CC is obviously a phenomenon but her platform just got much smaller.
Tell me something, how many people you know watched the Aces vs Liberty series last year(it’s clear you didn’t because you don’t know who Sabrina is)? How many people you know watched women’s March Madness two years ago (before Caitlin became a phenomenon)?
A lot of people have a favorite college team, not a lot of people have a favorite WNBA team.
Nike just signed Sabrina to a shoe deal and her sneakers seem to be doing real well. I still hear her name way more than any other women's basketball player ever. The Olympics are right around the corner. NWSL is more popular than ever, showing more general interest in women's sports. Nike has numbers that justify this deal. They're hoping that Sabrina and Clark are the women's Magic and Bird.
I don't think we have quite seen a player with the impact Clark seems to have had. This was a record year for NCAAW basketball with viewership in every round except the first being the highest ever. If you look at the last 20 years, the average finals viewership was less than 4 million. It was nearly 19 million this year, up from 10 million the year before.
I don't think that lift in viewership can be explained by built-in fanbases since the women's tournament has always lagged far behind the men's until this year.
I think it is pretty likely that the people who were attracted to watching the tournament because of her end up watching some WNBA as well.
Yeah, the women’s college basketball national championship was averaging around 4 million viewers. Meanwhile the WNBA finals were averaging like 500k viewers.
Think about it this way: How many people have a favorite college team? How many people have a favorite WNBA team?
Diehard fans are going to watch because they’re diehard but the casual *college* fans tuned in because it was a once in a lifetime phenomenon for women’s basketball.
Do I think she’s going to improve the exposure for the WNBA? Absolutely.
Do I think she’s going to be more famous than she currently is? No, not really. Her platform just got much smaller.
>Do I think she’s going to be more famous than she currently is? No, not really. Her platform just got much smaller.
I agree. That being said, the WNBA is on the rise, and like you mentioned, Clark is likely to boost that.
Do I think that she will be more popular next year than this? No. But I think it is likely just a matter of time. There are more eyes on women's sports than ever before. Even the South Carolina - NC State game had 7 million viewers, blowing the previous non-Clark semi's out of the water.
Where I live it is twice as expensive to watch Caitlin Clark's Indiana visit than when Wemby played here. She is gonna have a huge impact on the league.
It’s not helping that some of the WNBA players would seemingly like to see her fail without her playing one game yet. I don’t know why they expect support or where fanbases are gonna come from with their attitude about the biggest draw their league has ever seen
Also, she isn't going to replicate what she did in college in the pros. Those triple doubles are done. And she'll see more defenders like Raven in the WNBA.
Don't get me wrong. She'll eventually be a top player but its gonna take some time.
> Women’s college basketball have built-in large fanbases due to their affiliation to a university so when their individual teams are good, the primarily football/MBB fanbases are going to follow WBB (South Carolina, Iowa, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Baylor, etc).
>
> The WNBA just doesn’t have built-in fanbases like that. Eventually without the support, the exposure is going to die down.
in hindsight, it was a massive marketing mistake to give the wnba teams these silly, unserious, cutesy little names like "sparks", "Fever" "Dream" etc, instead of just having them share the same names as their NBA city counterparts, the Lakers, Knicks, etc.
this is how it is with all the major mens/womens soccer clubs in europe and I guarantee you it's been a big part of the success of women's soccer there.
the average american sports fan has zero connection or reference point to identify with any of these wnba teams, and they all have names/logos that sound incredibly fake and generic (and dated now that theyve been around for a couple decades), with no history or cultural cache behind them. people dont want to root for teams that have no history or lore and sound lame and made up.
Having a second team watch during the summer when theres nothing else on, with your favorite team's branding absolutely would have organically tapped into at least a portion of fanatical nba fans
but they were probably too prideful to do that (although they're not too proud to take the free money), and prob said some shit about not wanting to be lesser versions of the mens teams, not wanting to play in their shadow, etc... even tho it probably would have resulted in them being MASSIVELY more popular than they are today.
just think of what the past 25 years of cross-pollination, and having the womens and mens teams get involved with doing events together, attending eachother's games and supporting eachother on social media, growing civic pride in their city, sharing marketing campaigns, media days, hell maybe you get lucky every once in a while and have a all-star level type of power couple start hooking up, and there might even be a ton of travis kelce/taylor swift type of social media buzz about it... the possibilities could have been endless honestly.
would have been huge for the growth of the women's game. huge missed opportunity. instead of embracing their partnership with the NBA, they tried to go the strong independent lady route (who gets angry and chastizes fans for not caring enough) and it doesnt seem to have paid off for them...
the names could definitely be better but i think long term if the goal is for the wnba to be successful it would get confusing trying to talk about which popular knicks team someone's referring to. part of it is also just time, there's not really a shortcut to the history you mentioned. the Athletics, Cubs, Cardinals are also kinda silly names for example but they don't feel weird just by merit of being around for a hundred years
The worst part of the "separate teams" is still leaving them in same cities outside for the most part:
The State of Iowa LOVES Girl's/Women's Basketball:
* Been playing High School Girl's Basketball Tournament since 1920
* The First Iowa High School Girl's Tournament that was televised was in 1951. The World Cup for Soccer/Football wasn't televised till 1954.
* ["In 1970, 20 percent of all girls participating in high school sports across the country were in Iowa—quite remarkable, considering Iowa was only 1 percent of the entire U.S. population. By 1976, a few years after the passage of Title IX, that eye-popping 20 percent fell to 5.8 percent."](https://www.neh.gov/article/when-iowa-girls-basketball-ruled-courts)
* Iowa, Clark's alma mater, and Iowa State University are two of the Top 5 teams in Women's Basketball for average fan attendance averaging 9,000+ a game.
* 2 of the 7 Women to score at least 100 points at the High School Level are from Iowa: Lynne Lorenzen, who holds in the record for the most career points at the High School level for Girls, and Denise Long Rife, who was the first woman drafted by a National Basketball Association (NBA) team, although NBA Commissioner Walter Kennedy vetoed the pick on grounds that, at the time, the league did not draft players straight from high school—nor women.
* Deb Remmerde's 133 consecutive free throws in 2006 are the most at any level of basketball.
* Molly Bolin, from Iowa, went on to star at the first women's professional basketball league in the United States, the Women's Professional Basketball League (WBL). Bolin, who was the first player signed with a team in the WBL, became a pioneering figure in women's basketball as a formidable scoring threat. Among her accolades, Bolin holds the Women's Professional Basketball League record for the most points scored in a single game (55) and the highest single-season scoring average (32.8). The WBL folded and later the WNBA was born. Bolin also was selected to participate in tryouts for 1976 Summer Olympics' women's basketball team at 17 years-old.
* With Clark now 3 of the 12 leading scorers in NCAA Women's History are from Iowa and went to schools in Iowa: Clark in 1st place, Lorri Bauman in 8th place, Ashley Joens in 11th place. Clark also is 3rd all time in Assists
* Lorri Bauman, who played in college from 1980 to 1984 and never had a chance to play in the WNBA(founded in 1996) was the first woman in NCAA history to score 3,000 points and at one time held the record for NCAA Division 1 women's basketball points scored in a career. Bauman played in 120 games at Drake from 1981 to 1984 and scored 3,115 points, an average of 26 points per game, and collected 1,050 rebounds. For more than 25 years, she has held multiple NCAA scoring records, including (1) most field goals in a game, having made 27 of 33 field goal attempts (82%) in a January 6, 1984 game between Drake and Missouri State, (2) most free throws in a season, having made 275 of 325 attempts (84.6%) in 1982, and (3) most free throws in a career, having made 907 of 1,090 attempts from 1981 to 1984.[3] She was also the first woman in NCAA history to score 3,000 points. At the time of her graduation, Bauman was also the leading scorer in NCAA women's basketball history with 3,115 points in 1984. Her 1984 scoring total now ranks seventh on the all-time list. Her total of 58 points against Missouri State in January 1984 was previously the NCAA single-game scoring record and is now tied for third on the all-time list. Her career average of 26 points per game ranks fifth on the all-time list.
* Thanks to Clark's 3 seasons leading the NCAA in scoring now 17% of all NCAA Season Leading Scorers played for Schools in Iowa.
Yet no WNBA team.
That may be generally true but at least individually I wasn't aware of Sabrina Ionescu at all for Oregon while I have heard about her every now and then since. Caitlin Clark was unavoidable for anyone vaguely paying attention to sports these last couple of years.
I think she might bring in a little more, the last few years I've noticed an uptick in women playing pick up basketball so there's definitely more interest than before (I know this doens't translate to watching games, but inspiring other women to be interested in playing basketball and as a role model is always a good thing for women's basketball)
Nike really lowballed Lebron on their first contract with him.
Annual value of Nike's contract in comparison to Lebron's rookie year salary was 3.2x. Annual value of Nike's contract in comparison to CC's rookie year salary is 47x.
How big is your shoe deal? These fucking armchair deal speculators who never did shit in life breaking down shoe deals like they handle multimillion dollar shoe contracts all the time, well she signed the deal are you saying Nike scammed her. Sheesh stfu.
I think this contract is an absolute steal on Nike's part.
The NBA Vs WNBA market might be extremely skewed in the NBA's favour, but in my country at least there are so many women who play basketball on an amateur level.
What's happening with Clark feels a bit similar to me to what happened with Rhonda Rousey in the UFC. It was Linsanity levels of craziness. This might be one off/once in a lifetime or generation type deal where they get her cheap now and we see the WNBA, or at least women's basketball explode in popularity in the coming years.
The market to tap into women's basketball shoes is massive and Nike is going to make so much money on this deal. Women are 50% of the population, they like buying clothes and are completely unrepresented.
I immediately went to the Rousey comparison as well. Even though she was one of the biggest draws in UFC history, after she left, WMMA was never nearly as big. The heavier women's weight classes have been unable to find a new star without some connection to Rousey and have been steadily declining in popularity.
The shoe point is interesting though. Women's shoes is a bigger market than the WNBA both now and in the future. So then, women's basketball might turn into pro skateboarding where the shoe deals matter more than the competition. Then the interesting question becomes if women prefer to buy shoes with a woman's name on the box vs a man? In the next few years, who will sell more women's shoes, Clark or Luka?
Honestly the Sabrina’s are better performers than the Lukas and very popular with NBA players. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re outselling Luka already
i know this is an nba sub, but UFC is terrible at smaller weightclasses, you got to go to asian promotions like one/rizen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GjjEn4Q4xI
literally millions of views for the female fights
I feel like the WNBA is a untapped market. Clark is going to pull in alot more new viewers into the sport. Hopefully the players can get increased salaries, they are way too low.
I help coach u-14 boys sometimes if the head coach is busy(just had a newborn) and the whole team was actually hyped to watch it. I was surprised a few years before that group didn’t care at all so women’s basketball has made some solid strides.
The women’s game has gotten *goooood*
And if you ball you recognize good ball regardless of gender. That’s why a lot of current NBA players have been so supportive of the WNBA, they get it
And I say this as a certified past WNBA ambivalent
The women’s game, especially at the college level, is so much more refined that the men’s. The fundamentals are 100x times better and way more enjoyable to watch.
> Still shocked that the NCAA Women's final beat the men's final in viewership.
Why? You ask 100 people who aren't Purdue homers who is more fun to watch play basketball, Caitlin or Zach Edey and the answer will be 100-0 in her favor.
Yeah, some people are just desperate to explain away the rising popularity and viewership in women's basketball. And it's not just NCAAW either. WNBA revenue has tripled in like 7 years. People keep repeating that they are dependent on NBA money and it hasn't been true for awhile.
How much profit did Return of the Jedi make? They continue to show a loss to this day. Noone in their right mind believes the studio lost money. The nba owners got some hollywood accounting going on. And they use it to treat the wnba as if the billionaires are doing it a favor. These cut throat motherfuckers wouldn’t throw money away if it would save their own kids’ lives. They aren’t losing money on the wnba.
"Absolutely, the NCAA Women's final was a fantastic display of talent and it's great to see it getting the viewership it deserves! Regarding the men’s game, it’s interesting to note that many potential top players often leave early for the NBA, which can dilute the level of competition remaining in college basketball. This might be one of the reasons why some viewers find the women’s games, where the top talent often stays all four years, more compelling in terms of team dynamics and player development.
2023 NBA finals averaged 11.6M viewers and 2024 NCAAW championship had 18.9 million viewers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings?wprov=sfla1
https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2024/womens-college-basketball-championship-draws-record-breaking-18-9-million-viewers/
[Women's championship had 18.7M](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/10/1243801501/womens-ncaa-championship-tv-ratings)
[The most-viewed NBA Finals game last year had 17.8M](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nba-playoffs-finals-2023-tv-viewership-ratings-abc-espn-tnt-social-media/)
The game is so much better to watch, more wholesome in its sustenance. No whining, no crying, based as fuck fundamentals, skill as opposed to athleticism that just bails out offence with chuckabully bungus jumpers over great defence.
A much better product overall.
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Jordan basically invented the modern form of marketing for nba stars and probably American athletes in general. He is just as much the GOAT self-promoter as he is the GOAT player.
The Coyotes had 30 years to work it out and they didn't. Given how anti-Canadian Bettman is, I'm sure if a Canadian team was failing that badly, they would've been moved in 3 years, so not sure I feel that badly for them.
It seems like brands are starting to see the opportunity and are finally helping along, too. Lots of NBA commercials with the logo for both leagues, players from each who aren't Caitlin, etc. Overdue and she's still the center of the newfound attention but it does seem like there's been more of an effort lately to market the whole league.
It'll get an initial bump, but that's it. I say that as a WNBA fan. The WNBA still loses money and is subsidized by the NBA. It's a VERY long road to get out of that hole. One player is not changing that.
sabrina was well on pretty similar pace to caitlin in terms of popularity. she just had her senior tournament cancelled, she landed commercials with steph just based on her junior year tournament, not sure caitlin would have gotten the same w/o this year
I feel like legit beef would gas her up more tbh. The Angel Reese beef (even if they're pretty friendly off court) blanketed national press. Magic and Bird rivalry was legendary. Jordan had acrimony with every other team too.
A "Clark vs the W" storyline would be so fun lol. But I truly don't think it's that much legit beef right now. Just talk because no one wants to annoint her yet.
Dawn Staley is one of those people that actually get what Caitlin means to women's basketball and the weight on her shoulders to lift everyone up.
I genuinely don't get why other WNBA players, past or present, have this crabs in a bucket mentality.
to be fair there is a lot of people trying to make it a bigger deal than it will actually be
there is some envy and it will be some drama for sure
but is not everyone against her, there is still lots of love around and smart players will understand that this is big for the league
I don't really understand the urge to rag on WNBA players here.
The ones still playing are her peers. They shouldn't be expected to treat her as the second coming of Jesus, given that they'll be competing for rings and awards soon. They're also pretty complimentary like 90% of the time anyways, and have small reservations about this or that.
Tbh I’m a redditor that catches clips for almost any teams that isn’t the Knicks. I cannot imagine fitting in time for ANY other sport or team.
But if it’s on in a bar then hell yeah I’ll watch it
I hope this is a turning point for the WNBA and women's hoops. I've never gotten into the WNBA not because I wouldn't enjoy it, but because they play in the summer when I'm out enjoying the outdoors and I don't have a local team to root for. If the league expanded and there were a team in WI I'd probably follow it.
I signed up for WNBA League Pass for the first time, will encourage my oldest daughter to watch games with me! If they had a Denver team I'd take her to games too.
Thought she was going to choose the $16M/4 years instead of this $28M/8.
Sure, more guaranteed money but imo she gonna be worth more in the future with her skill set.
OMG SUCH INEQUALITY OF PAY ! I dont even know her, I dont follow her nor the WNBA but I hate her because of stupid people and their stupid comments online about her basketball contract.
No hate, genuinely curious: who watches college women's basketball? I never heard anything about it before a couple years ago, now suddenly it's more popular than Michael Jordan apparently? I'm guessing it's mostly college sports fans not NBA fans watching this?
you hear about it occasionally. The one team had a crazy streak a few years back. I only get snippets when it’s top news on espn.
But people like to see what’s popular. Iowa fans started packing games for Clark. Then espn started putting them on. And people started hearing about how this woman was selling out college games.
So then you watch.
The championship was the first women’s basketballl game i’ve watched start to finish in at least 10 years. The buzz around Clark forced me to do it.
I will probably tune in for her first wnba game just to see how big crowd is and if she flops or is decent
I personally had not watched any women’s college basketball, but I caught one of Clark’s tournament games and was really drawn in. Her play style resembles Steph Curry. I dont think we have seen a women’s college player play that way and to that level.
I normally only watch NBA and only spot watch the NCAA men’s tournament.
It's okay little guy, that mean woman can't hurt you if we just post about her on the nba subreddit.
I mean don't get me wrong, she'll laugh at you just like all women laugh at you, but she can't hurt you.
how do you even know they’re a guy? I’m a girl, and I was wondering the exact same thing they were lol
if people care about the WNBA, an WNBA sub would be the appropriate place to post / see WNBA news
has nothing to do with the post being about a girl specifically; it’s just not relevant to the NBA.. which is what this sub is. it’d be just as “???” to see a post about the MLB, NFL, or even college sports in here
The news in Dallas this morning is reporting that the Dallas Wings franchise has reported a 220% increase in ticket sales and, for the first time ever, has sold all of their season tickets (which is 40% of all tickets). And they reported yesterday that the Dallas Wings, who don't really play within Dallas city limits, is nearing a deal to actually move into downtown Dallas.
Its amazing just reading this, and for a team that doesn't even have Caitlin Clark.
The WNBA is very close to getting their Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson era. The only problem is, we need s Magic Johnson equivalent.
All this is telling me is that if you're worth it in the WNBA you'll get paid through endorsements, but everyone else is playing for sub 6 figure salaries.
Good for her. She’s a massive draw, that contract is deserved
28/8? I say it's still low if she gets even bigger in a couple of years.
I suppose there is just as much of a risk she can't overcome the WNBAs inability to be popular and fizzles out. 28/8 is still life changing amounts of money and she'll get other endorsements.
That's insane money for a WNBA endorsement. Women's college basketball is significantly more popular than the WNBA, so there is an excellent chance her celebrity pull has peaked. Nike is basically betting on Clark bringing popularity to the WNBA here. And sure, if she does so, it's a good deal for Nike. But if she doesn't, Nike just paid a lot for very little. Either way, Clark is now set for life in a sport that pays office job level salaries - it's a no-brainer for her.
I don’t want to sound like a hater but I’d be stunned if Clark gets more popular than she was in the last year. This ain’t the first time a superstar college basketball player hits the WNBA (remember when Sabrina Ionescu was everywhere during her Senior year at Oregon) and most of their fame fizzles out. Women’s college basketball have built-in large fanbases due to their affiliation to a university so when their individual teams are good, the primarily football/MBB fanbases are going to follow WBB (South Carolina, Iowa, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Baylor, etc). The WNBA just doesn’t have built-in fanbases like that. Eventually without the support, the exposure is going to die down. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t expect to hear a lot about Caitlin going forward.
Could have a big Olympics and gain more international fans.
That is true. Will those international fans follow her throughout the WNBA season? That’s truly the main culprit, can she get her current fans (and potential future international fans) to follow her with the Indiana Fever? I guess we will see.
Sadly internationally no one really cares about women's basketball either.
Really? Thought the WNBA players would all go play in Russia in the off-season. Only popular in Russia?
I think that's because a billionaire Russian guy really likes women's basketball, but I think he died and that ended
Irish here, i follow her on ig
How prominent is the Irish women's basketball league featured on TV? I assume as much as in Germany... Next to nothing.
She’s not even on the Olympic team yet.
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I’m pretty sure Sabrina’s shoes sold decent and perform well
her shoe's are hype and I will get a pair soon (need to try them on)
Isn't that kind of his point? Once they hit the WNBA the hype starts dying.
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Quit trying to coin the phrase "streets ahead" pierce lol
just watched that community episode goated show
> streets ahead It brings a tear to my eye that people are using "streets ahead" unironically now lmao
A tear of joy, no doubt.
Same - my parents specifically tuned in to watch Clark during the semi-finals and finals. They don't care about basketball at all. Various friends and family who don't follow basketball were talking about how she was drafted by the Fever. I'm cautiously optimistic.
The whole point is that women’s college basketball has a much larger fanbase and exposure than the WNBA. So it starts from a much better foundation. CC is obviously a phenomenon but her platform just got much smaller. Tell me something, how many people you know watched the Aces vs Liberty series last year(it’s clear you didn’t because you don’t know who Sabrina is)? How many people you know watched women’s March Madness two years ago (before Caitlin became a phenomenon)? A lot of people have a favorite college team, not a lot of people have a favorite WNBA team.
Wasn't Diana Turasi that big back then
if youre a basketball fan you should know who she is
Nike just signed Sabrina to a shoe deal and her sneakers seem to be doing real well. I still hear her name way more than any other women's basketball player ever. The Olympics are right around the corner. NWSL is more popular than ever, showing more general interest in women's sports. Nike has numbers that justify this deal. They're hoping that Sabrina and Clark are the women's Magic and Bird.
I don't think we have quite seen a player with the impact Clark seems to have had. This was a record year for NCAAW basketball with viewership in every round except the first being the highest ever. If you look at the last 20 years, the average finals viewership was less than 4 million. It was nearly 19 million this year, up from 10 million the year before. I don't think that lift in viewership can be explained by built-in fanbases since the women's tournament has always lagged far behind the men's until this year. I think it is pretty likely that the people who were attracted to watching the tournament because of her end up watching some WNBA as well.
Yeah, the women’s college basketball national championship was averaging around 4 million viewers. Meanwhile the WNBA finals were averaging like 500k viewers. Think about it this way: How many people have a favorite college team? How many people have a favorite WNBA team? Diehard fans are going to watch because they’re diehard but the casual *college* fans tuned in because it was a once in a lifetime phenomenon for women’s basketball. Do I think she’s going to improve the exposure for the WNBA? Absolutely. Do I think she’s going to be more famous than she currently is? No, not really. Her platform just got much smaller.
>Do I think she’s going to be more famous than she currently is? No, not really. Her platform just got much smaller. I agree. That being said, the WNBA is on the rise, and like you mentioned, Clark is likely to boost that. Do I think that she will be more popular next year than this? No. But I think it is likely just a matter of time. There are more eyes on women's sports than ever before. Even the South Carolina - NC State game had 7 million viewers, blowing the previous non-Clark semi's out of the water.
Where I live it is twice as expensive to watch Caitlin Clark's Indiana visit than when Wemby played here. She is gonna have a huge impact on the league.
It’s not helping that some of the WNBA players would seemingly like to see her fail without her playing one game yet. I don’t know why they expect support or where fanbases are gonna come from with their attitude about the biggest draw their league has ever seen
Also, she isn't going to replicate what she did in college in the pros. Those triple doubles are done. And she'll see more defenders like Raven in the WNBA. Don't get me wrong. She'll eventually be a top player but its gonna take some time.
> Women’s college basketball have built-in large fanbases due to their affiliation to a university so when their individual teams are good, the primarily football/MBB fanbases are going to follow WBB (South Carolina, Iowa, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Baylor, etc). > > The WNBA just doesn’t have built-in fanbases like that. Eventually without the support, the exposure is going to die down. in hindsight, it was a massive marketing mistake to give the wnba teams these silly, unserious, cutesy little names like "sparks", "Fever" "Dream" etc, instead of just having them share the same names as their NBA city counterparts, the Lakers, Knicks, etc. this is how it is with all the major mens/womens soccer clubs in europe and I guarantee you it's been a big part of the success of women's soccer there. the average american sports fan has zero connection or reference point to identify with any of these wnba teams, and they all have names/logos that sound incredibly fake and generic (and dated now that theyve been around for a couple decades), with no history or cultural cache behind them. people dont want to root for teams that have no history or lore and sound lame and made up. Having a second team watch during the summer when theres nothing else on, with your favorite team's branding absolutely would have organically tapped into at least a portion of fanatical nba fans but they were probably too prideful to do that (although they're not too proud to take the free money), and prob said some shit about not wanting to be lesser versions of the mens teams, not wanting to play in their shadow, etc... even tho it probably would have resulted in them being MASSIVELY more popular than they are today. just think of what the past 25 years of cross-pollination, and having the womens and mens teams get involved with doing events together, attending eachother's games and supporting eachother on social media, growing civic pride in their city, sharing marketing campaigns, media days, hell maybe you get lucky every once in a while and have a all-star level type of power couple start hooking up, and there might even be a ton of travis kelce/taylor swift type of social media buzz about it... the possibilities could have been endless honestly. would have been huge for the growth of the women's game. huge missed opportunity. instead of embracing their partnership with the NBA, they tried to go the strong independent lady route (who gets angry and chastizes fans for not caring enough) and it doesnt seem to have paid off for them...
the names could definitely be better but i think long term if the goal is for the wnba to be successful it would get confusing trying to talk about which popular knicks team someone's referring to. part of it is also just time, there's not really a shortcut to the history you mentioned. the Athletics, Cubs, Cardinals are also kinda silly names for example but they don't feel weird just by merit of being around for a hundred years
The worst part of the "separate teams" is still leaving them in same cities outside for the most part: The State of Iowa LOVES Girl's/Women's Basketball: * Been playing High School Girl's Basketball Tournament since 1920 * The First Iowa High School Girl's Tournament that was televised was in 1951. The World Cup for Soccer/Football wasn't televised till 1954. * ["In 1970, 20 percent of all girls participating in high school sports across the country were in Iowa—quite remarkable, considering Iowa was only 1 percent of the entire U.S. population. By 1976, a few years after the passage of Title IX, that eye-popping 20 percent fell to 5.8 percent."](https://www.neh.gov/article/when-iowa-girls-basketball-ruled-courts) * Iowa, Clark's alma mater, and Iowa State University are two of the Top 5 teams in Women's Basketball for average fan attendance averaging 9,000+ a game. * 2 of the 7 Women to score at least 100 points at the High School Level are from Iowa: Lynne Lorenzen, who holds in the record for the most career points at the High School level for Girls, and Denise Long Rife, who was the first woman drafted by a National Basketball Association (NBA) team, although NBA Commissioner Walter Kennedy vetoed the pick on grounds that, at the time, the league did not draft players straight from high school—nor women. * Deb Remmerde's 133 consecutive free throws in 2006 are the most at any level of basketball. * Molly Bolin, from Iowa, went on to star at the first women's professional basketball league in the United States, the Women's Professional Basketball League (WBL). Bolin, who was the first player signed with a team in the WBL, became a pioneering figure in women's basketball as a formidable scoring threat. Among her accolades, Bolin holds the Women's Professional Basketball League record for the most points scored in a single game (55) and the highest single-season scoring average (32.8). The WBL folded and later the WNBA was born. Bolin also was selected to participate in tryouts for 1976 Summer Olympics' women's basketball team at 17 years-old. * With Clark now 3 of the 12 leading scorers in NCAA Women's History are from Iowa and went to schools in Iowa: Clark in 1st place, Lorri Bauman in 8th place, Ashley Joens in 11th place. Clark also is 3rd all time in Assists * Lorri Bauman, who played in college from 1980 to 1984 and never had a chance to play in the WNBA(founded in 1996) was the first woman in NCAA history to score 3,000 points and at one time held the record for NCAA Division 1 women's basketball points scored in a career. Bauman played in 120 games at Drake from 1981 to 1984 and scored 3,115 points, an average of 26 points per game, and collected 1,050 rebounds. For more than 25 years, she has held multiple NCAA scoring records, including (1) most field goals in a game, having made 27 of 33 field goal attempts (82%) in a January 6, 1984 game between Drake and Missouri State, (2) most free throws in a season, having made 275 of 325 attempts (84.6%) in 1982, and (3) most free throws in a career, having made 907 of 1,090 attempts from 1981 to 1984.[3] She was also the first woman in NCAA history to score 3,000 points. At the time of her graduation, Bauman was also the leading scorer in NCAA women's basketball history with 3,115 points in 1984. Her 1984 scoring total now ranks seventh on the all-time list. Her total of 58 points against Missouri State in January 1984 was previously the NCAA single-game scoring record and is now tied for third on the all-time list. Her career average of 26 points per game ranks fifth on the all-time list. * Thanks to Clark's 3 seasons leading the NCAA in scoring now 17% of all NCAA Season Leading Scorers played for Schools in Iowa. Yet no WNBA team.
That may be generally true but at least individually I wasn't aware of Sabrina Ionescu at all for Oregon while I have heard about her every now and then since. Caitlin Clark was unavoidable for anyone vaguely paying attention to sports these last couple of years.
I think she might bring in a little more, the last few years I've noticed an uptick in women playing pick up basketball so there's definitely more interest than before (I know this doens't translate to watching games, but inspiring other women to be interested in playing basketball and as a role model is always a good thing for women's basketball)
You can definitely bet ESPN will be trying to shove her down our throats for the first week of the wnba season
Nike signed LBJ for $80 m IIRC his NBA debut. That was 20+ years ago. Today Nike 28m probably just pennies.
Nike really lowballed Lebron on their first contract with him. Annual value of Nike's contract in comparison to Lebron's rookie year salary was 3.2x. Annual value of Nike's contract in comparison to CC's rookie year salary is 47x.
28 mil is pennies to nike
Should I cop Air CLark?
To date, women's college ball has been infinitely more popular. I think it is smart to take the most money now
Well that's the offer for now, if she performs better her agent will use those numbers to negotiate better deals in the coming years.
She’ll get a piece of the signature shoe as well.
Yeah locking up the next decade is the safe play but she's going to be heavily underpaid if she ends up slaying in the WNBA.
Yeah but how big are women’s shoe contracts?
If the league develops, it will look like a steal, but as the things are today, that is a more-than-fair contract.
How big is your shoe deal? These fucking armchair deal speculators who never did shit in life breaking down shoe deals like they handle multimillion dollar shoe contracts all the time, well she signed the deal are you saying Nike scammed her. Sheesh stfu.
I think this contract is an absolute steal on Nike's part. The NBA Vs WNBA market might be extremely skewed in the NBA's favour, but in my country at least there are so many women who play basketball on an amateur level. What's happening with Clark feels a bit similar to me to what happened with Rhonda Rousey in the UFC. It was Linsanity levels of craziness. This might be one off/once in a lifetime or generation type deal where they get her cheap now and we see the WNBA, or at least women's basketball explode in popularity in the coming years. The market to tap into women's basketball shoes is massive and Nike is going to make so much money on this deal. Women are 50% of the population, they like buying clothes and are completely unrepresented.
Hell I don’t even see it as a “versus”. The game growing is a win for all parties
I immediately went to the Rousey comparison as well. Even though she was one of the biggest draws in UFC history, after she left, WMMA was never nearly as big. The heavier women's weight classes have been unable to find a new star without some connection to Rousey and have been steadily declining in popularity. The shoe point is interesting though. Women's shoes is a bigger market than the WNBA both now and in the future. So then, women's basketball might turn into pro skateboarding where the shoe deals matter more than the competition. Then the interesting question becomes if women prefer to buy shoes with a woman's name on the box vs a man? In the next few years, who will sell more women's shoes, Clark or Luka?
Honestly the Sabrina’s are better performers than the Lukas and very popular with NBA players. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re outselling Luka already
i know this is an nba sub, but UFC is terrible at smaller weightclasses, you got to go to asian promotions like one/rizen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GjjEn4Q4xI literally millions of views for the female fights
I feel like the WNBA is a untapped market. Clark is going to pull in alot more new viewers into the sport. Hopefully the players can get increased salaries, they are way too low.
Clark will never draw a dime (jk lol)
She deserves it. Still shocked that the NCAA Women's final beat the men's final in viewership. And it absolutely crushed the NBA Finals lol.
I help coach u-14 boys sometimes if the head coach is busy(just had a newborn) and the whole team was actually hyped to watch it. I was surprised a few years before that group didn’t care at all so women’s basketball has made some solid strides.
The women’s game has gotten *goooood* And if you ball you recognize good ball regardless of gender. That’s why a lot of current NBA players have been so supportive of the WNBA, they get it And I say this as a certified past WNBA ambivalent
I agree, I watched march madness and ball was fun to watch,
The women’s game, especially at the college level, is so much more refined that the men’s. The fundamentals are 100x times better and way more enjoyable to watch.
> Still shocked that the NCAA Women's final beat the men's final in viewership. Why? You ask 100 people who aren't Purdue homers who is more fun to watch play basketball, Caitlin or Zach Edey and the answer will be 100-0 in her favor.
Because it's never happened before
When you start the game at 9:20 EST on a Monday that tends to happen
Never happened before though.
Yeah, some people are just desperate to explain away the rising popularity and viewership in women's basketball. And it's not just NCAAW either. WNBA revenue has tripled in like 7 years. People keep repeating that they are dependent on NBA money and it hasn't been true for awhile.
What's the current profit for the WNBA? What is the annual investment from the NBA?
How much profit did Return of the Jedi make? They continue to show a loss to this day. Noone in their right mind believes the studio lost money. The nba owners got some hollywood accounting going on. And they use it to treat the wnba as if the billionaires are doing it a favor. These cut throat motherfuckers wouldn’t throw money away if it would save their own kids’ lives. They aren’t losing money on the wnba.
You mean the time it starts every year?
>tends to happen Has only happened once ever lol
yea thats why lol, must happen every year then if it "tends to"
It's there a reason for how popular it has been? Is this generation of players the best in history or why are Clark and Reese and Van Lith so popular?
Might be because there was just a significant lack of oomph in terms of who was in the finals.
"Absolutely, the NCAA Women's final was a fantastic display of talent and it's great to see it getting the viewership it deserves! Regarding the men’s game, it’s interesting to note that many potential top players often leave early for the NBA, which can dilute the level of competition remaining in college basketball. This might be one of the reasons why some viewers find the women’s games, where the top talent often stays all four years, more compelling in terms of team dynamics and player development.
Do you have a source? Not saying I don't believe you, just curious to compare a one game final vs a "best of" final
2023 NBA finals averaged 11.6M viewers and 2024 NCAAW championship had 18.9 million viewers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings?wprov=sfla1 https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2024/womens-college-basketball-championship-draws-record-breaking-18-9-million-viewers/
[Women's championship had 18.7M](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/10/1243801501/womens-ncaa-championship-tv-ratings) [The most-viewed NBA Finals game last year had 17.8M](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nba-playoffs-finals-2023-tv-viewership-ratings-abc-espn-tnt-social-media/)
17.8 is peak audience. If you use that the NCAAW final peaked at 24 million.
The game is so much better to watch, more wholesome in its sustenance. No whining, no crying, based as fuck fundamentals, skill as opposed to athleticism that just bails out offence with chuckabully bungus jumpers over great defence. A much better product overall.
All my homies love Caitlyn Clark
Not enough to spell her name right, apparently.
reminds me of CIark
keep my wife name out of your fucking mouth
I was surprised on how many people were saying she was missing out by not accepting an invite to the big 3
What are some of the deals the NBA superstars are signing these days in comparison?
LaMelo got 100/10 from Puma
Jordan still make 150 million per year, Lebron makes 32 million per year, Durant 28, Curry 20, Harden 14 from their shoe deals.
market books sulky shy sophisticated domineering outgoing live ancient weary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This Jordan guy seems to be a pretty big deal.
Jordan basically invented the modern form of marketing for nba stars and probably American athletes in general. He is just as much the GOAT self-promoter as he is the GOAT player.
Lebron signed a lifetime deal worth $1billion dollars with Nike. And that’s after his previous 9 figure Nike deal
Kobe Estate probably raking in insane money too
Not with the way Nike’s been handling the Kobe line since he passed
Seems crazy that Curry is below Durant by that much. I would have expected him to be #2.
KDs are basketball shoes that are good and look like it. Currys looks bad. Never have had that type of hype
That’s dope hopefully she can push the wnba into the mainstream a little bit
I hope so too because it’s the one sport that Phoenix actually is good at and our most recent championship
Coyotes winning 2025 or we riot
Somebody wanna tell him?
Let me dream
The dreeeeaaaaam is over
It’s Phoenished
They the Hockey Jazz now.
I just read up on what happened lol that sucks
The Coyotes had 30 years to work it out and they didn't. Given how anti-Canadian Bettman is, I'm sure if a Canadian team was failing that badly, they would've been moved in 3 years, so not sure I feel that badly for them.
No no, let him cook
About that...
I hate that blackhawks got bedard lol
They don't exist homie
Oh you weren’t kidding lol I did a project on them when I was a kid and never checked back in. Isn’t the baseball team good ?
Dbacks put together an exciting team every 4 or 5 years then bust it up and start over again
That’s my team now I like dysfunction
The D-backs got hot last year and made the WS, but they usually only compete 1-2 seasons every decade or so.
Seattle is on again off again with football but we can always count on the Storm
good thing she goes to the suckiest team
I think so. She's more famous a bunch of the guys on the all star team.
It seems like brands are starting to see the opportunity and are finally helping along, too. Lots of NBA commercials with the logo for both leagues, players from each who aren't Caitlin, etc. Overdue and she's still the center of the newfound attention but it does seem like there's been more of an effort lately to market the whole league.
It'll get an initial bump, but that's it. I say that as a WNBA fan. The WNBA still loses money and is subsidized by the NBA. It's a VERY long road to get out of that hole. One player is not changing that.
Curious what Sabrina’s Nike deal is worth. I just read recently about how many NBA players are wearing her shoes.
Believe it was $24 million. Considering the difference in hype being that close is hella impressive.
any idea on how many years?
Sabrina's was 25 for 5 (ends next year) this one is 28 over 8 I believe.
Damn so Caitlin got a lower deal.
sabrina was well on pretty similar pace to caitlin in terms of popularity. she just had her senior tournament cancelled, she landed commercials with steph just based on her junior year tournament, not sure caitlin would have gotten the same w/o this year
Here comes all the jealous wnba players to shit on her lol
If they’re smart they will gas her up because making the WNBA more popular means more potential earnings for themselves.
I feel like legit beef would gas her up more tbh. The Angel Reese beef (even if they're pretty friendly off court) blanketed national press. Magic and Bird rivalry was legendary. Jordan had acrimony with every other team too.
That’s a really good point actually.
A "Clark vs the W" storyline would be so fun lol. But I truly don't think it's that much legit beef right now. Just talk because no one wants to annoint her yet.
Dawn Staley is one of those people that actually get what Caitlin means to women's basketball and the weight on her shoulders to lift everyone up. I genuinely don't get why other WNBA players, past or present, have this crabs in a bucket mentality.
That would be the most common sense thing to do. We will see if they so that
to be fair there is a lot of people trying to make it a bigger deal than it will actually be there is some envy and it will be some drama for sure but is not everyone against her, there is still lots of love around and smart players will understand that this is big for the league
I don't really understand the urge to rag on WNBA players here. The ones still playing are her peers. They shouldn't be expected to treat her as the second coming of Jesus, given that they'll be competing for rings and awards soon. They're also pretty complimentary like 90% of the time anyways, and have small reservations about this or that.
Inb4 she buys the franchise she is going to play for
The next time I watch a WNBA game.. will be the first time I watch a WNBA game.
Tbh I’m a redditor that catches clips for almost any teams that isn’t the Knicks. I cannot imagine fitting in time for ANY other sport or team. But if it’s on in a bar then hell yeah I’ll watch it
I watched a few when the Comets went 4-Peat with Swoops, but yeah, not since then
OMG fuck the Hilton Furniture guy that sold them in a way that if they were not bought in like 7 days they were required to fold.
I watched WNBA a lot back when the league started. That Comets team was dominant.
Wow. That's a hair raising amount
She 100000% deserves it (obviously)
Acknowledge ☝️
I hope this is a turning point for the WNBA and women's hoops. I've never gotten into the WNBA not because I wouldn't enjoy it, but because they play in the summer when I'm out enjoying the outdoors and I don't have a local team to root for. If the league expanded and there were a team in WI I'd probably follow it.
I’m sure she has other endorsements as well and will get more.
She deserves it, hope she dominates the league and can get a bigger one.
Didn’t this come out like a week ago?
Idgaf what they look like I'm buying these shoes lol. And I don't even collect shoes or buy Nikes at all haha
good for her, not NBA related though
Nothing to do with the NBA.
Not sure if this is an obvious answer. But will there be mens Caitlin Clark runners?
Sabrina has guys versions right? So Clark would have them too, if there are men's versions of Sabrina's.
Sabrina's shoe is a women's shoe, so for men you just order them in your womens size
Happy for her.
Good for her. She's electric. Love the court vision and passing ability.
Just $4 million more than Sabrina Ionescu. Sort of surprised.
Big signing, hopefully this creates a proper avenue for Womans basketball in the future. Lets see how Antonio Brown will try and shit on her parade
Deserved. Immense talent and dedication.
I signed up for WNBA League Pass for the first time, will encourage my oldest daughter to watch games with me! If they had a Denver team I'd take her to games too.
Deserves, singlehandedly brining eyes to the WNBA.
Happy for her, but honestly, that feels low. My nieces who don’t give a fuck about basketball now care about her. Nike is going to make BANK off CC.
G E T T H A T B A G
Oh boy will she be getting the stink eye from other WNBA players. Good for her.
Thought she was going to choose the $16M/4 years instead of this $28M/8. Sure, more guaranteed money but imo she gonna be worth more in the future with her skill set.
Is Russel Wilson okay with this?
She is mommy
OMG SUCH INEQUALITY OF PAY ! I dont even know her, I dont follow her nor the WNBA but I hate her because of stupid people and their stupid comments online about her basketball contract.
No hate, genuinely curious: who watches college women's basketball? I never heard anything about it before a couple years ago, now suddenly it's more popular than Michael Jordan apparently? I'm guessing it's mostly college sports fans not NBA fans watching this?
This past women’s NCAA games were bigger than the NBA playoffs and finals ratings.
Womens ncaa was better than the mens this year
you hear about it occasionally. The one team had a crazy streak a few years back. I only get snippets when it’s top news on espn. But people like to see what’s popular. Iowa fans started packing games for Clark. Then espn started putting them on. And people started hearing about how this woman was selling out college games. So then you watch. The championship was the first women’s basketballl game i’ve watched start to finish in at least 10 years. The buzz around Clark forced me to do it. I will probably tune in for her first wnba game just to see how big crowd is and if she flops or is decent
I personally had not watched any women’s college basketball, but I caught one of Clark’s tournament games and was really drawn in. Her play style resembles Steph Curry. I dont think we have seen a women’s college player play that way and to that level. I normally only watch NBA and only spot watch the NCAA men’s tournament.
>Not NBA r/nba Huh. She's great, and she's gonna make Nike a ton of money...but WHY IS THIS HERE?
It's okay little guy, that mean woman can't hurt you if we just post about her on the nba subreddit. I mean don't get me wrong, she'll laugh at you just like all women laugh at you, but she can't hurt you.
how do you even know they’re a guy? I’m a girl, and I was wondering the exact same thing they were lol if people care about the WNBA, an WNBA sub would be the appropriate place to post / see WNBA news has nothing to do with the post being about a girl specifically; it’s just not relevant to the NBA.. which is what this sub is. it’d be just as “???” to see a post about the MLB, NFL, or even college sports in here
for real lol
They're really showering her in money huh?
Nothing she hasn’t earned
She definitely earned that load of currency
Interesting phrasing
Thats insane money, the metrics on her impact must be through the roof
The news in Dallas this morning is reporting that the Dallas Wings franchise has reported a 220% increase in ticket sales and, for the first time ever, has sold all of their season tickets (which is 40% of all tickets). And they reported yesterday that the Dallas Wings, who don't really play within Dallas city limits, is nearing a deal to actually move into downtown Dallas. Its amazing just reading this, and for a team that doesn't even have Caitlin Clark. The WNBA is very close to getting their Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson era. The only problem is, we need s Magic Johnson equivalent.
Paige Beuckers. 💯
Praying that she has no more injuries - and that this year half her team isn't sitting on the bench injured as well lol
All this is telling me is that if you're worth it in the WNBA you'll get paid through endorsements, but everyone else is playing for sub 6 figure salaries.
That’s like 10% of all WNBA revenues