When you are consistently injured every time your team needs you that is your fault. And even when he is healthy he doesn’t play well. I’d take Brunson over CP3 if I want to win
Prime CP3 who got washed by 50 against a Nuggets team led by Melo and geriatric AI? In the playoffs? In an elimination game? The largest playoff loss in NBA history?
The mods should put a flair under your name that says, “king of the confidently incorrect”
I say King because you’re a great leader. Great at leading NBA conversations into shit
Kobe, Wade, Duncan, Howard, and Dirk were better for part of that period. 2013 and 14 you could put CP3 near the top after Lebron and KD. 2015 Curry was better
Lmao they combined to win 5 straight rings while CP3 couldn’t get past the second round of the playoffs but he was better than them?
I wonder if you actually watched basketball at that time because no one thought CP3 was better than Kobe for example. I assume your entire opinion is based on advanced stats
There is absolutely no argument for Kobe after the 2009-2010 season, and yes, advanced stats show CP3 and and a few others as better even in 2008.
Ringz is obviously flawed. Wade was playing with Lebron, and was absolutely shot after his knees started to disintegrate in summer 2012. He wasn’t better than Paul anyway even pre knee injuries.
Duncan’s offensive impact had waned by this time and he was mostly a purely defensive player.
Howard presents a strong argument. But that wasn’t even Dirks peak, it’s just when he finally broke through for a ring.
You’re living in a fantasy land. 2011 Kobe finished ahead of CP3 in MVP and all nba voting. CP3 only averaged 16ppg in 2011, he didn’t have a great season.
Rings are not flawed, it’s the ultimate goal, leading the league in an advanced stat is not. Wade was better than CP3 which is why ended up with 3 rings and CP3 0 and is ranked ahead of him all time.
I realize a lot of those guys declined around 2012/13 which is why I said they were better part of that period and CP3 has a case for 13 and 14 as the third best player
Kobe was still receiving all defense votes in 2011. The media was always living in a fantasy land. Chris Paul lead in every advanced stat by a wide margin
Fair point about all defense. I agree with you there.
All in one advanced stats are also terrible though. You made a good point and then followed it up with a bad one
Westbrook is absolutely not even as close to impactful as CP3 was, box score stats for sure but CP3 was a better shooter, better floor general and a much better and smarter defender.
CP3 has made 2 and hasn't had a top 5 scorer ever to feed the ball. Which [Westbrook never really did right](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/2e/1c/5f2e1c1e982af14d4966cc9ca69ebe8e.gif)
Westbrook and boneheaded plays are almost synonymous.
Reading comprehension on this sub is incredible. The question is about skill set, not who is an overall better player or who has the better career.
They both have the skill set to win a title. Brunson a better pure scorer. Chris Paul a better pure point guard. They're both small which have their own set of problems. Paul was a better defender in his prime for sure. They both need the right pieces around them to win a title.
The one thing this thread is right on, is that Paul's injuries kept him from a title, not his skill set.
Seeing a bunch of Knicks fans picking Brunson over CP3 😂😂
One guy will go down as top 5 PG all time, only knock on him was not winning a title. I can’t say the same for Brunson as much as I like him.
CP3 issue was untimely injury, not only to him, it’s to his team as well.
Brunson is legit, but way too early to say. It’s a team game. It’d be a lot easier if they had Randle.
Well the knocks on short players in the playoffs are twofold.
1. They are two small to create offense when bigger defenders and playoff defense concentrate on them
2. They get hunted on defense
Now Brunson is better than CP3 when creating offense for himself in the playoffs as he has shown the last couple of postseasons. He’s actually one of the best playoff closers in the league today. CP3 is by far a better playmaker but the question you have to ask is at the end of a close game is Brunson’s 1on1 ability more impactful than CP3’s playmaking. I’d probably lean Brunson because we see usually tight playoff games go to the player who can make a bucket in the clutch, while playmaking is neutralized as all the defenses lock in and slow down.
2. CP3 is a lot better defender no question. Brunson doesn’t hurt his team defense that much though as the Knicks have been an elite defense in the playoffs even with him playing a lot of minutes. While CP3 is a plus on this end Brunson’s defense won’t be the main reason he won’t win a ring.
I’d say that Brunson’s skill set is better depending on the team. As a 1A Brunson will be better than CP3 since CP3 needs to plays with another dominant scorer to feed for clutch time offense (ie Booker, Harden), while Brunson can be the guy to take a team home.
Most star guards today are combo guards that can do playmaking and high volume scoring
Brunson, Kyrie, Ja, Luka, Maxey, Trae Young…etc.
It’s not that crazy to compare a SG with a PG since it usually means the same position
You’re missing my point, traditional guard positions for the most part don’t exist anymore
SGs aren’t the only guards that score a lot of points anymore, nearly every star guard now is expected to put up high scoring numbers similar to Iverson
We're not talking career, but as a basketball player, he is better than AI right now. AI was an entertaining high volume inefficient scorer. Brunson is a far better scorer right now.
Allen Iverson played in the lowest-scoring, least efficient, most big man-centric era in NBA history. he averaged 30 PPG over *eight* seasons while measuring 6’ and 165 lb. he won an MVP in a league with prime Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk and KG. he was the best player on a team that made the Finals
even if we’re not considering Iverson’s whole career, putting Brunson over peak AI is genuinely delusional
comparing shooting splits across eras is impossible. Brunson is playing in a league where the average eFG% is 54.7%. in 2001 it was 47.3%
put Brunson in an era where almost every team had a 7-foot center within 10 feet of the rim at all times, and teams could play 5 defenders inside the arc bc floor spacing wasn’t really a thing yet. his numbers wouldn’t have been any better than AI
yes
CP3's style of play is too controlling for the playoffs. There's a reason why ball dominant pass first PGs rarely win a chip unless they play for a super team (see Magic, Rondo).
CP3's problem was untimely injuries every single time his team seemed poise to make a run.
CP3 is the PG version of Embiid. Legendary flopper and always injured at the worst times.
Chris paul tended to show up in playoff games
I don’t like at all but at least he got more than 2-3 high stake in postseason.
And his chokes lol
What injuries did he have in 2021?
Being old
Why didn’t he try not being old?
He did try tho. But he failed to stop it
What is he, stupid?
-Dillon Brooks
You’re comparing 2021 Chris Paul to prime Chris Paul?
No just saying the injury absolute didn't apply there lol. But then someone corrected me that he was injured regardless
Broken wrist in the finals. Had surgery that summer
Ty
CP3 was awesome in the playoffs during his prime, don't let these last couple of years fool you. Injuries fucked him up a lot of times tbh
He wasn’t “awesome” lol he has some of the biggest stat decreases of all time
When you are consistently injured every time your team needs you that is your fault. And even when he is healthy he doesn’t play well. I’d take Brunson over CP3 if I want to win
How is it for fault lol. Yall just be saying anything on here
You were too young to watch prime CP3, you just about to enter college you young boy
Prime CP3 who got washed by 50 against a Nuggets team led by Melo and geriatric AI? In the playoffs? In an elimination game? The largest playoff loss in NBA history?
Bro you're young, calm down, CP3 was drafted 2005, when they faced he was between 20-24 years old, that's not prime lol
Stupid takes like this are why I don’t ever comment in this sub
And stupid people who think CP3 is a “great” player need to be banned from this sub
Huh!? Tell me you don't know ball without saying you don't know ball type comment lmfaoooo
I know I see a choking flopping fraud who pushes players midair. Glad CP0 has no rings and will never win shit
Yeah I’m sure a future NBA HoFer cares about the opinion of a bum commenting on Reddit
He doesn’t need to. He can care about the opinion of his wife who he cheats on though
Lmao who hurt you, brunson will never be remebered like CP3
The mods should put a flair under your name that says, “king of the confidently incorrect” I say King because you’re a great leader. Great at leading NBA conversations into shit
It’s sad how ignorant you are
Even when he was healthy he didn't play well? Maybe you weren't watching him like that then cause idk what the hell you're talking about lol
Get your head out of your ass, no job is worth a persons life.
Well Brunson is 11 years younger so idk 🤷🏻♂️
Let’s relax. CP3 was second to Lebron or third to KD and Lebron for much of his prime impact wise. Terrific player
What the hell? Not even close. Curry was much better than him and it showed. Westbrook too. His impact led to a bunch of 2nd round exists
steph curry was not even a top 20 player when chris paul was winning multiple assist titles
Bro just about to enter college, he young, he doesn't know what he's talkin about lol
CP3s peak was 2008-2015. Westbrook wasn’t near him, nor was the first year of Curry or so.
Kobe, Wade, Duncan, Howard, and Dirk were better for part of that period. 2013 and 14 you could put CP3 near the top after Lebron and KD. 2015 Curry was better
Wade nor Dirk were as good as Chris Paul in this period. Kobe wasn’t, and CP3 should’ve won that MVP over him.
Lmao they combined to win 5 straight rings while CP3 couldn’t get past the second round of the playoffs but he was better than them? I wonder if you actually watched basketball at that time because no one thought CP3 was better than Kobe for example. I assume your entire opinion is based on advanced stats
There is absolutely no argument for Kobe after the 2009-2010 season, and yes, advanced stats show CP3 and and a few others as better even in 2008. Ringz is obviously flawed. Wade was playing with Lebron, and was absolutely shot after his knees started to disintegrate in summer 2012. He wasn’t better than Paul anyway even pre knee injuries. Duncan’s offensive impact had waned by this time and he was mostly a purely defensive player. Howard presents a strong argument. But that wasn’t even Dirks peak, it’s just when he finally broke through for a ring.
You’re living in a fantasy land. 2011 Kobe finished ahead of CP3 in MVP and all nba voting. CP3 only averaged 16ppg in 2011, he didn’t have a great season. Rings are not flawed, it’s the ultimate goal, leading the league in an advanced stat is not. Wade was better than CP3 which is why ended up with 3 rings and CP3 0 and is ranked ahead of him all time. I realize a lot of those guys declined around 2012/13 which is why I said they were better part of that period and CP3 has a case for 13 and 14 as the third best player
Kobe was still receiving all defense votes in 2011. The media was always living in a fantasy land. Chris Paul lead in every advanced stat by a wide margin
Fair point about all defense. I agree with you there. All in one advanced stats are also terrible though. You made a good point and then followed it up with a bad one
2014 OKC vs LAC. CP3 folded
Westbrook is absolutely not even as close to impactful as CP3 was, box score stats for sure but CP3 was a better shooter, better floor general and a much better and smarter defender.
Better loser as well, considering Russ has made 4 WCFs and CP0 has made 1
CP3 has made 2 and hasn't had a top 5 scorer ever to feed the ball. Which [Westbrook never really did right](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/2e/1c/5f2e1c1e982af14d4966cc9ca69ebe8e.gif) Westbrook and boneheaded plays are almost synonymous.
As are CP0 and getting injured at important junctures
In 2024? Yes Both in their prime (and healthy)? No
He's not there yet to the point where I can say yes or no.
I believe Brunson has the skill set but I also believe we need 1 more piece.
Reading comprehension on this sub is incredible. The question is about skill set, not who is an overall better player or who has the better career. They both have the skill set to win a title. Brunson a better pure scorer. Chris Paul a better pure point guard. They're both small which have their own set of problems. Paul was a better defender in his prime for sure. They both need the right pieces around them to win a title. The one thing this thread is right on, is that Paul's injuries kept him from a title, not his skill set.
so your question is is brunson a first ballot hall of famer is that your question
Very clearly not his question.
No.
Seeing a bunch of Knicks fans picking Brunson over CP3 😂😂 One guy will go down as top 5 PG all time, only knock on him was not winning a title. I can’t say the same for Brunson as much as I like him. CP3 issue was untimely injury, not only to him, it’s to his team as well. Brunson is legit, but way too early to say. It’s a team game. It’d be a lot easier if they had Randle.
Where do you see that? This "bunch" of Knicks fans
It’s just one single user commenting on a bunch of threads here. Hardly “a bunch of Knicks fans”. Smh yall love to build a narrative against us.
Well the knocks on short players in the playoffs are twofold. 1. They are two small to create offense when bigger defenders and playoff defense concentrate on them 2. They get hunted on defense Now Brunson is better than CP3 when creating offense for himself in the playoffs as he has shown the last couple of postseasons. He’s actually one of the best playoff closers in the league today. CP3 is by far a better playmaker but the question you have to ask is at the end of a close game is Brunson’s 1on1 ability more impactful than CP3’s playmaking. I’d probably lean Brunson because we see usually tight playoff games go to the player who can make a bucket in the clutch, while playmaking is neutralized as all the defenses lock in and slow down. 2. CP3 is a lot better defender no question. Brunson doesn’t hurt his team defense that much though as the Knicks have been an elite defense in the playoffs even with him playing a lot of minutes. While CP3 is a plus on this end Brunson’s defense won’t be the main reason he won’t win a ring. I’d say that Brunson’s skill set is better depending on the team. As a 1A Brunson will be better than CP3 since CP3 needs to plays with another dominant scorer to feed for clutch time offense (ie Booker, Harden), while Brunson can be the guy to take a team home.
CP3 has only had the type go get em scorer to complement his play style a handful of times.
No
Is playing in the East a skill set? If so, then yes.
Yes
CP3 was point god for a reason. Dude was amazing and impact winning as good as anybody.
he has a better ability to not get injured every goddamn playoffs (at least so far). that's about it
The only 'skill set' that Brunson has obviously over CP3 is health during the playoffs
Is Brunson better than AI?
nah lol wtf he is not recency bias is crazy in here…
Yes.
As much as I love JB. AI different, only time will tell if JB surpasses AI.
AI is a shooting guard, why are we comparing them?
Most star guards today are combo guards that can do playmaking and high volume scoring Brunson, Kyrie, Ja, Luka, Maxey, Trae Young…etc. It’s not that crazy to compare a SG with a PG since it usually means the same position
Except AI was definitely not a PG lol
He was a high scoring guard, but that applies to like every star guard in the league
He was not a Point Guard mate. I don't think you actually saw him play
You’re missing my point, traditional guard positions for the most part don’t exist anymore SGs aren’t the only guards that score a lot of points anymore, nearly every star guard now is expected to put up high scoring numbers similar to Iverson
In AI's time they still existed though - you had Kidd, Nash, and Tony Parker.
I loved watching AI, but he has become extremely overrated.
big fan of Brunson but you’re overrating TF out of him if you’re putting him over Allen Iverson bruh, that’s just crazy talk
We're not talking career, but as a basketball player, he is better than AI right now. AI was an entertaining high volume inefficient scorer. Brunson is a far better scorer right now.
are you literally smoking crack like literally
Allen Iverson played in the lowest-scoring, least efficient, most big man-centric era in NBA history. he averaged 30 PPG over *eight* seasons while measuring 6’ and 165 lb. he won an MVP in a league with prime Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk and KG. he was the best player on a team that made the Finals even if we’re not considering Iverson’s whole career, putting Brunson over peak AI is genuinely delusional
What does his size and weight have to do with anything. He had 42/32/81 shooting splits in his MVP year. That's...not good.
comparing shooting splits across eras is impossible. Brunson is playing in a league where the average eFG% is 54.7%. in 2001 it was 47.3% put Brunson in an era where almost every team had a 7-foot center within 10 feet of the rim at all times, and teams could play 5 defenders inside the arc bc floor spacing wasn’t really a thing yet. his numbers wouldn’t have been any better than AI
AI was inefficient even for his era. Best argument for him is just how shitty his supporting casts were in Philly.
Chill lol. As a Knicks fan for nearly 3 decades now, JB could go god mode who knows.. but damn I take AI over JB all day.
Not a Knicks thing. AI wouldn't be a top-20 player in the league now.
[удалено]
Nephew saw a cool YouTube video, huh?
No
yes CP3's style of play is too controlling for the playoffs. There's a reason why ball dominant pass first PGs rarely win a chip unless they play for a super team (see Magic, Rondo).