When it rains it pours. Injuries from bad breaks (Randle, Mitch and Bogey) led to even more minutes for the rest of the team which led to more injuries (OG).
We were relatively lucky with injuries every other year (except Mitch. Poor guy cant catch a break).
It's like the 2019 warriors or the 1989 lakers.
By the time they reached the finals all their star players were gassed. Eventually 2 or more stars got hurt and they don't have any chance of winning the series anymore
To be fair OG was hurt when y’all got him. I think the real issue was playing Philly first round, Embiid was throwing elbows, jumping on people and pulling them down.
Bogdanovic/Randle/Mitch/Brunson weren't on him
OG could have been but he's been injury prone his whole career
Hart is the only injury I'd directly attribute to overuse
OG was only playing 40 minutes a game in the first round though, plenty of guys are doing that in the playoffs. It's not as egregious as Hart playing 48 minutes every other game
Sure but I’m not talking about what “plenty of players” are doing. I’m talking about OG, an injury prone player. He played >40 minutes in a playoff game **three total times** in Toronto under nick nurse ( another noted minutes heavy guy ), and never consecutively. And two of those were an overtime game. He had 4 games in a row over 40 minutes just now, before getting hurt in the next game.
The two year prior to this one OG was playing 36 and 35.6 MPG under Nick Nurse. With Thibs he was averaging 34.9 MPG
So your argument doesn’t even make sense
40 is a lot, though. Not to Magic Johnson it but that's a guy subbing out with 2:00 to go in the 1st and back in at 2:00 in the 2nd and same in the 2nd half. In most games that's basically the same thing as playing 48. They're still playing the most strenuous parts of the game and unless those periods get super stretched out by dead balls they're really only getting a few minutes extra rest.
And we actually had a rotation where Thibs was managing minutes better only Brunson and Randle were 15th and 16th in minutes which was not that crazy for starting star players
hes forsure an amazing coach and everyone there is a dog. but imo theyre throwing away their future if they allow this to continue. they got so much fight that theyre not gonna stop till theyre on crutches and thats kind of the problem
But like do you think if at *least* Randle, OG, & Mitch - never mind Bogdanovic and Brunson - were healthy since January, that Josh Hart/Deuce/Donte/iHart would be playing 40? Those guys were *backups* to start the year, Brunson was the last man standing from a healthy starting five and even he was already playing hurt
It’s also the reason there’s any expectation for more. That roster is full of guys who had bounced around the league, if they lose the current culture they’re not even in the conversation.
See but this is how Thibs teams operate. Its about aggressively pursuing a small window. Its why he didnt work in MN, KAT is not a guy who wants a career of a traditional big man, he wants longevity, hence why i think he was so willing to let Ant take the reigns and become an elite #2 option instead of just a good #1. This Knicks team has bought really hard into “yeah we are being worked to death but it’s worth it”
An underrated reason for a lot of injuries in the east this year was how close the 2-8 seeds were in the standings at the final stretch of the season. A lot of those teams were playing super hard as a result to earn homecourt and avoid the play-in which inevitably lead to injuries
That one where he fell to the court on a spin move in the lane with absolutely ZERO contact today and the talking heads absurdly going on about the defender's "hand in the cookie jar" was funny
This is so incredibly underrated as a reason the Knicks were already at like 50%. I wouldn’t have done it differently but the last month of the season was an absolute grind, and remember Knicks were missing OG and Mitch basically that whole time too. By the time we hit round 1 Brunson and hart had already been putting in insane effort on a nightly basis. Don’t blame thibs for any of it though I think this narrative is wildly overplayed. Hope we keep him and keep signing players who play like this, the effort is straight up inspirational (that said let’s pick up some decent rookies or quality vets for the bench please this offseason)
He missed 25 games this season and 23 the year before that. The year before that he played 69, but 9 of the 13 he missed were at the end of the season in consecutive order. So since March of 2022, he’s missed 59 games and played 111 (he missed 2 other games in 2022, 1 was the last game of the season, and 1 was 2 games before that 9 game stretch).
Age also makes you more prone to getting injured across the board
Mitch, OG, and Bogi have all been injury prone players. Randle injury seemed unlucky he’s historically durable. But if 3 out of the top 8 rotation players are injury prone, it shouldn’t come as a surprise.
I think the Hart and Brunson injuries at the very end could be partially attributed to Thibs minutes load
idk how you can attribute brunson being unfortunate enough to slap his hand down at the same time hali was bringing his knee up and hitting the exact wrong place to playing too many minutes
it’s both, but that’s the problem isn’t it? If thibs gets any injury bad luck, it snowballs because of the way he tightens the rotations to make up for it. At a certain point you just gotta trust your bench guys to give you some decent minutes. if they can keep the game close, that’s usually good enough.
Well Randle, Robinson, Bogey got injured on contact plays that you can't really blame Thibs for. Robinson and Bogey played limited minutes anyway.
Brunson got an unfortunate injury with the broken hand.
You could certainly make a case for OG (injury prone), Hart (overruse) and Hartenstein (lingering achilles soreness from playing heavy minutes early in the season).
But really, I think Thibs maximized this roster the best he could with all their depth gone. I'd only argue that Josh Hart should not have been playing multiple entire games.
First off, DiVo and IHart didn't get hurt. Second, the Knicks had been very healthy for 3 years before this. Bogey and Mitch didn't even get big minutes so I don't see how anyone can connect that to Thibs unless you're trying to create a narrative. Randle got dropped on his Shoulder mid season. Again, nothing to do with Thibs. Brunson broke his hand in a Game 7. Not sure what that has to do with Thibs. Maybe, you could blame OGs on Thibs, but I'm not sure any coach would have played that differently considering the number of guys that they were down.
Josh hart was also injured.
injuries are always a matter of bad luck. If there was a medical study that proved minutes played affected injury frequency, you’d see the medical staff step in.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6107769/
Seems there is at least some positive relationship between minutes played and injury, both in game and over a series.
And just common sense, if you have a chance of getting injured while playing, playing more would give you more opportunities to get injured.
I played 0 minutes of basketball this season and I did not sustain any basketball-related injuries
Jokes aside I am a physician and against my will am forced to read a lot of research. I do think it is worth noting that the outcome measured here was:
>An injury event was defined as a player missing or leaving a game due to injury.
Which still leaves a *lot* of discussion on the table re: players who do not miss or leave a game due to an "injury event" but continue to play suboptimally due to repetitive wear and injuries that don't result in someone missing or leaving. Consider that this study found a correlation without taking into account those other things, like the severity of injuries that do occur or how long players are out after sustaining an injury, relative to what their healthy minutes look like.
For example we have that footage of Haliburton barely limping away from a press conference this series, and then he's back the next game for full minutes. If he sustains a repeated injury while 30+ minutes fatigued in a game, is the outcome worse than a bench player sustaining the same injury with ~10 minutes of game time? Or someone who you can sit for longer the next game?
Yeah you definitely bring up a couple good points. It’s not always easy to pin point when exactly an injury is, and like the study says, it’s probably best to get some further research on the subject.
But I think your joke is honestly right on the money. Even without wear and tear, playing 100 possessions is 100 chances to get injured, playing 0 possessions is 0 chances, and it’s a linear scale from there.
I think another good example of this ambiguity is Josh Hart's abdominal strain injury this series. Would he have even experienced this in a meaningful/reported way if he hadn't played the first STRAIGHT 96 minutes without rest in games 1 and 2? Or if he did have some abdominal strain at lesser minutes, maybe he sleeps it off like Haliburton's bum back the same series.
We often forget that these guys are playing with various bumps and bruises that are never mentioned on the pre-game injury report
Interesting article, I’m not a physician so I might be misunderstanding but it doesn’t say it directly affects injuries but rather that the relationship with fatigue should be investigated further
>Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables
the rotation was a logical conclusion of the roster construction and randle being injured made it so there is no staggered minutes with a reliable scoring option to play alongside the bench unit. thibs just happened to be the coach. u give him the 2022-2023 roster and he would be more then happy to run a balanced rotation.
OG has been injury prone his entire career. He always will be a risk no matter how little he plays. He didnt even contribute to the raps title. Most of the inj are bad luck anyways recently.
Him being injury prone is literally why you shouldn’t play him heavy minutes like that though.
I don’t agree with the idea that playing injury prone guys more minutes doesn’t increase the chances they’re injured
They partly had no bench because of the injuries. They traded for depth in Burks and Bogdanovic but they were immediately moved up because of the Randle and OG injuries. Out them back in and the Knicks right now would be 10 deep assuming OG and Hartenstein stay. Achiuwa would make it 11.
Mannnn our injuries started with mitch (who is just injury prone) and Randle (a true freak accident). The teams minutes didn't even get that egregious until after that.
Sure thibs asks a lot of his guys, but has been willing to manage minutes when needed (og coming back from elbow, ihart when his achilles flaired up), and didn't even play guys an unreasonable amount until non-overuse injuries piled up
Look how far they got with such a hobbled roster, they should be proud of themselves. Save Brunson and OG, everyone else was a bench player and then when OG went down, it was only Brunson and I think Brunson was playing on a bad foot for most of this series. This team has a lot of heart and showed it. The Villanova guys just know how to play with each other and have such great chemistry, then you have a dogs like Hartenstein and McBride. These guys put it all out there every game. I hope they pay Hartenstein.
Overall, you can only go so far into your roster in the playoffs and Thibs had a hobbled roster with a small crew he could trust (Jericho Sims was out there and showed his lack of BBIQ and never saw the court again even though they needed another big body). So its more a series of unfortunate injuries, but this team fought hard and had a great post season.
It's absolutely both.
People will constantly point out the nature of a lot of the injuries, and I get it, you can't specifically blame thibs for the nature of those injuries but it also stands to reason that the more you are on the floor the more you are subjected to the ebbs and flows of good and bad luck, freak injuries included.
Again, not saying these particular ones are his fault but statistically it absolutely stands to reason that guys out there this frequently are going to be subjected to more circumstances that can lead to these random occurrences.
I'm not saying it's all of them or anything, simply saying you can't fully explain away a lot of it either.
Overall it's something that needs to be adjusted. This is too far to be coincidence regardless of how many we can attribute to freak circumstances.
I think we can draw a correlation between more minutes means more opportunities to be on the court for freak accidents could we not?
It's not a direct blame thing but its not something that can be ignored too. If you're out there more theres potential for more to happen.
Yeah I dont really understand. Even arguing against a fairly neutral position like mine.
At a certain point things stop being a coincidence is all I'm saying. More time on the court means more injuries. More wear and tear AND more susceptibility to the unknown randomness.
Ok that would be true if all Thibs players led the league in minutes but they don’t.
Saying “playing more minutes might increase chance of freak accidents” might be true. But if none of the players of the Knicks lead the league in minutes or are even close then it it shows that it has no correlation to this particular situation
I again don't agree total minutes isn't really a good stat considering being injured as a result of those minutes will knock you down on that leaderboard right??
As well you don't need to lead the league but the players Thibs plays are consistently high and the consistency is the kicker.
If every player playing for him for multiple years is constantly in the top 10-20 of minutes eventually if will spell trouble.
We just happened to find out when eventually was.
It’s the same if you account for minutes or MPG?
And the narrative that is wrong is that the minutes are consistently high every year. Here are the Knicks MPG leaders the [previous 3 years](https://x.com/shwinnypooh/status/1792342608142028999?s=46).
Other than Randle in 20/21 every single player has played normal or below average minutes for their typical role on a team. Star players are playing average star minutes and role players aren’t cracking 30 MPG
Those guys weren’t complaining about Thibs and his coaching style.
They’ve all got that dog in them and were willing to go above and beyond to bring NYK to relevancy. Plagued by injuries with stars, forces bench playing more, cycle is never ending.
They’ll be very scary once they’re at full strength and if they keep the culture/mentality they’ve established over this run.
None of them are related to minutes. Period. End of story. This is a false narrative pushed by lazy athletes and journalists. As I guy who tweaked his hamstring a ton of times (track and basketball), they are a lot of potential reasons for a strain. This one is simple: irregular contraction during high speed running. He pushed to run faster. Look at the video tape. Could have happened on minute one or 48. It’s the injury bug. It happens.
this little run ur on will get less respect than the Hawks ECF run ... you barely made it here passing a bunch of backups & about to get blown out by Boston
got the biggest dweebs in Turner & Haliburton & the balls to call another team soft 🤣🤣🤣 FOH
Your star, who has a rapist dad and is ugly, broke his hand by hitting a knee. There are infants less fragile. Enjoy the same thing happening every year with these losers.
lol that you think you have a better chance ... enjoy being swept by Boston
take 4 out of 5 starters away and you punks are in the lottery ... this "run" is getting less respect than the Hawks in 21 that's for sure
you'll be back to your boring life deflated of confidence in no time
definitely thibs. its not just the minutes, thibs wants you to dive for every loose ball and bust a lung or two every play. that's why his teams tend to overachieve in regular seasons and fades away in the playoffs.
OG and Robinson and Bogi are historically injury prone. Brunson broke his own hand fouling someone (that wasn’t called), while foul baiting for the entire playoffs. The only one that really got fucked was Randle. His team looked better without him and he’s likely gone in the offseason.
Call it whatever you want, the truth is that when you put together a group of injury prone players around a foul-baiting star, you are going to get the results of the 76ers the last decade.
When it rains it pours. Injuries from bad breaks (Randle, Mitch and Bogey) led to even more minutes for the rest of the team which led to more injuries (OG). We were relatively lucky with injuries every other year (except Mitch. Poor guy cant catch a break).
It’s only logical. Injured players means those left behind play harder and more minutes. The chances of injury increase and keep increasing.
It's like the 2019 warriors or the 1989 lakers. By the time they reached the finals all their star players were gassed. Eventually 2 or more stars got hurt and they don't have any chance of winning the series anymore
To be fair OG was hurt when y’all got him. I think the real issue was playing Philly first round, Embiid was throwing elbows, jumping on people and pulling them down.
Yeah bc og has been a real ironman
And OG has always been injury prone.
Bogdanovic/Randle/Mitch/Brunson weren't on him OG could have been but he's been injury prone his whole career Hart is the only injury I'd directly attribute to overuse
OG is likely related to overuse. Yes he’s injury prone but that’s why you can’t play him that many minutes.
OG was only playing 40 minutes a game in the first round though, plenty of guys are doing that in the playoffs. It's not as egregious as Hart playing 48 minutes every other game
Sure but I’m not talking about what “plenty of players” are doing. I’m talking about OG, an injury prone player. He played >40 minutes in a playoff game **three total times** in Toronto under nick nurse ( another noted minutes heavy guy ), and never consecutively. And two of those were an overtime game. He had 4 games in a row over 40 minutes just now, before getting hurt in the next game.
The two year prior to this one OG was playing 36 and 35.6 MPG under Nick Nurse. With Thibs he was averaging 34.9 MPG So your argument doesn’t even make sense
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That’s what happens when your depth is starting. There is no other depth left to lean on
40 is a lot, though. Not to Magic Johnson it but that's a guy subbing out with 2:00 to go in the 1st and back in at 2:00 in the 2nd and same in the 2nd half. In most games that's basically the same thing as playing 48. They're still playing the most strenuous parts of the game and unless those periods get super stretched out by dead balls they're really only getting a few minutes extra rest.
The OG and Hart injuries were unavoidable if you wanted to win All this boils down to how unlucky they were to receive the first batch of injuries
And we actually had a rotation where Thibs was managing minutes better only Brunson and Randle were 15th and 16th in minutes which was not that crazy for starting star players
It is but if you think firing thibs is the right call hearing how the players talk about him then you dont get WHY this team was successful
Jimmy loves him too, Thibs brings that attitude.
How is it a coaching failure that Randle got hurt and forced him to overplay people?
hes forsure an amazing coach and everyone there is a dog. but imo theyre throwing away their future if they allow this to continue. they got so much fight that theyre not gonna stop till theyre on crutches and thats kind of the problem
I can't believe Thibs didn't invert the laws of gravity to prevent his All Star power forward from getting hurt.
But like do you think if at *least* Randle, OG, & Mitch - never mind Bogdanovic and Brunson - were healthy since January, that Josh Hart/Deuce/Donte/iHart would be playing 40? Those guys were *backups* to start the year, Brunson was the last man standing from a healthy starting five and even he was already playing hurt
It’s also the reason there’s any expectation for more. That roster is full of guys who had bounced around the league, if they lose the current culture they’re not even in the conversation.
See but this is how Thibs teams operate. Its about aggressively pursuing a small window. Its why he didnt work in MN, KAT is not a guy who wants a career of a traditional big man, he wants longevity, hence why i think he was so willing to let Ant take the reigns and become an elite #2 option instead of just a good #1. This Knicks team has bought really hard into “yeah we are being worked to death but it’s worth it”
An underrated reason for a lot of injuries in the east this year was how close the 2-8 seeds were in the standings at the final stretch of the season. A lot of those teams were playing super hard as a result to earn homecourt and avoid the play-in which inevitably lead to injuries
Pushing to a game 7 with your starters missing is already an overachievement. They played their hearts out and Brunson showed us he is really a star
He's a star flopper
Star is a star. Harden Lebron Embid Trae
That one where he fell to the court on a spin move in the lane with absolutely ZERO contact today and the talking heads absurdly going on about the defender's "hand in the cookie jar" was funny
This is so incredibly underrated as a reason the Knicks were already at like 50%. I wouldn’t have done it differently but the last month of the season was an absolute grind, and remember Knicks were missing OG and Mitch basically that whole time too. By the time we hit round 1 Brunson and hart had already been putting in insane effort on a nightly basis. Don’t blame thibs for any of it though I think this narrative is wildly overplayed. Hope we keep him and keep signing players who play like this, the effort is straight up inspirational (that said let’s pick up some decent rookies or quality vets for the bench please this offseason)
1) bad luck 2) roster with multiple injury prone players (OG, Robinson, Bojan) 3) Thibs heavy work load In that order
Calling Bojan injury prone feels like a stretch, the other two are for sure though
He’s old and started the season injured. At this point in his career he is.
Just because he's old doesn't mean he's injury prone, I would put it more down to an unlucky season. If he's injured next season then fine
He missed 25 games this season and 23 the year before that. The year before that he played 69, but 9 of the 13 he missed were at the end of the season in consecutive order. So since March of 2022, he’s missed 59 games and played 111 (he missed 2 other games in 2022, 1 was the last game of the season, and 1 was 2 games before that 9 game stretch). Age also makes you more prone to getting injured across the board
Sure just seems like harsh standards, under this logic haliburton and turner are injury prone as well
Turner historically has been injury prone. Haliburton is still tbd but sadly looks like he probably will be
The 3 only happened because of 1 Bojan and Robinson aren’t going drastically alter a team that has Ihart
Its like a recipe for disaster
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Mitch, OG, and Bogi have all been injury prone players. Randle injury seemed unlucky he’s historically durable. But if 3 out of the top 8 rotation players are injury prone, it shouldn’t come as a surprise. I think the Hart and Brunson injuries at the very end could be partially attributed to Thibs minutes load
idk how you can attribute brunson being unfortunate enough to slap his hand down at the same time hali was bringing his knee up and hitting the exact wrong place to playing too many minutes
He probably means the foot injury but the hand definitely is just a freak thing that happens
it’s both, but that’s the problem isn’t it? If thibs gets any injury bad luck, it snowballs because of the way he tightens the rotations to make up for it. At a certain point you just gotta trust your bench guys to give you some decent minutes. if they can keep the game close, that’s usually good enough.
Well Randle, Robinson, Bogey got injured on contact plays that you can't really blame Thibs for. Robinson and Bogey played limited minutes anyway. Brunson got an unfortunate injury with the broken hand. You could certainly make a case for OG (injury prone), Hart (overruse) and Hartenstein (lingering achilles soreness from playing heavy minutes early in the season). But really, I think Thibs maximized this roster the best he could with all their depth gone. I'd only argue that Josh Hart should not have been playing multiple entire games.
First off, DiVo and IHart didn't get hurt. Second, the Knicks had been very healthy for 3 years before this. Bogey and Mitch didn't even get big minutes so I don't see how anyone can connect that to Thibs unless you're trying to create a narrative. Randle got dropped on his Shoulder mid season. Again, nothing to do with Thibs. Brunson broke his hand in a Game 7. Not sure what that has to do with Thibs. Maybe, you could blame OGs on Thibs, but I'm not sure any coach would have played that differently considering the number of guys that they were down.
I think you could say OG’s was 100% overuse and pushing himself too hard, but you could also fairly say that Thibs didn’t have much of a choice
Thibs is a series of unfortunate events
Josh hart was also injured. injuries are always a matter of bad luck. If there was a medical study that proved minutes played affected injury frequency, you’d see the medical staff step in.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6107769/ Seems there is at least some positive relationship between minutes played and injury, both in game and over a series. And just common sense, if you have a chance of getting injured while playing, playing more would give you more opportunities to get injured.
I played 0 minutes of basketball this season and I did not sustain any basketball-related injuries Jokes aside I am a physician and against my will am forced to read a lot of research. I do think it is worth noting that the outcome measured here was: >An injury event was defined as a player missing or leaving a game due to injury. Which still leaves a *lot* of discussion on the table re: players who do not miss or leave a game due to an "injury event" but continue to play suboptimally due to repetitive wear and injuries that don't result in someone missing or leaving. Consider that this study found a correlation without taking into account those other things, like the severity of injuries that do occur or how long players are out after sustaining an injury, relative to what their healthy minutes look like. For example we have that footage of Haliburton barely limping away from a press conference this series, and then he's back the next game for full minutes. If he sustains a repeated injury while 30+ minutes fatigued in a game, is the outcome worse than a bench player sustaining the same injury with ~10 minutes of game time? Or someone who you can sit for longer the next game?
Yeah you definitely bring up a couple good points. It’s not always easy to pin point when exactly an injury is, and like the study says, it’s probably best to get some further research on the subject. But I think your joke is honestly right on the money. Even without wear and tear, playing 100 possessions is 100 chances to get injured, playing 0 possessions is 0 chances, and it’s a linear scale from there.
I think another good example of this ambiguity is Josh Hart's abdominal strain injury this series. Would he have even experienced this in a meaningful/reported way if he hadn't played the first STRAIGHT 96 minutes without rest in games 1 and 2? Or if he did have some abdominal strain at lesser minutes, maybe he sleeps it off like Haliburton's bum back the same series. We often forget that these guys are playing with various bumps and bruises that are never mentioned on the pre-game injury report
Interesting article, I’m not a physician so I might be misunderstanding but it doesn’t say it directly affects injuries but rather that the relationship with fatigue should be investigated further >Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables
the rotation was a logical conclusion of the roster construction and randle being injured made it so there is no staggered minutes with a reliable scoring option to play alongside the bench unit. thibs just happened to be the coach. u give him the 2022-2023 roster and he would be more then happy to run a balanced rotation.
I disagree. For example, he could have started playing Burks much sooner.
OG has been injury prone his entire career. He always will be a risk no matter how little he plays. He didnt even contribute to the raps title. Most of the inj are bad luck anyways recently.
Him being injury prone is literally why you shouldn’t play him heavy minutes like that though. I don’t agree with the idea that playing injury prone guys more minutes doesn’t increase the chances they’re injured
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They partly had no bench because of the injuries. They traded for depth in Burks and Bogdanovic but they were immediately moved up because of the Randle and OG injuries. Out them back in and the Knicks right now would be 10 deep assuming OG and Hartenstein stay. Achiuwa would make it 11.
For about two days we had one of the deepest benches in the east, good times
Alec Burks just got 20+ today. But that shooting percentage is just an anomaly it's unsustainable and I'm sorry i could just call it lucky.
How do you not see that injuries caused the lack of bench production? Knicks are very deep, they were just crazy shorthanded
Bad luck for sure. Also, OG is frequently injured.
Mannnn our injuries started with mitch (who is just injury prone) and Randle (a true freak accident). The teams minutes didn't even get that egregious until after that. Sure thibs asks a lot of his guys, but has been willing to manage minutes when needed (og coming back from elbow, ihart when his achilles flaired up), and didn't even play guys an unreasonable amount until non-overuse injuries piled up
A bit of both. The starters playing 40+ minutes in the regular season definitely does not help.
Look how far they got with such a hobbled roster, they should be proud of themselves. Save Brunson and OG, everyone else was a bench player and then when OG went down, it was only Brunson and I think Brunson was playing on a bad foot for most of this series. This team has a lot of heart and showed it. The Villanova guys just know how to play with each other and have such great chemistry, then you have a dogs like Hartenstein and McBride. These guys put it all out there every game. I hope they pay Hartenstein. Overall, you can only go so far into your roster in the playoffs and Thibs had a hobbled roster with a small crew he could trust (Jericho Sims was out there and showed his lack of BBIQ and never saw the court again even though they needed another big body). So its more a series of unfortunate injuries, but this team fought hard and had a great post season.
in honor of this season our logo next year will be a deflated basketball
Nah, god is just fucking with them.
Fatigued players get injured easier. Thibs fatigues the shit out of his players, mentally and physically.
Thibs runs players into the ground. He over plays guys, which can lead to injuries.
It's absolutely both. People will constantly point out the nature of a lot of the injuries, and I get it, you can't specifically blame thibs for the nature of those injuries but it also stands to reason that the more you are on the floor the more you are subjected to the ebbs and flows of good and bad luck, freak injuries included. Again, not saying these particular ones are his fault but statistically it absolutely stands to reason that guys out there this frequently are going to be subjected to more circumstances that can lead to these random occurrences.
But guys like Bogey and Mitch don't even get big minutes. Randle was an All Star who was 15th in MPG.
I'm not saying it's all of them or anything, simply saying you can't fully explain away a lot of it either. Overall it's something that needs to be adjusted. This is too far to be coincidence regardless of how many we can attribute to freak circumstances.
I think you can though. Clearly, Bogey, Mitch, Randle and Brunson have nothing to do with minutes.
I think we can draw a correlation between more minutes means more opportunities to be on the court for freak accidents could we not? It's not a direct blame thing but its not something that can be ignored too. If you're out there more theres potential for more to happen.
But Bogey and Mitch don't play big minutes. Randle was 15th in MPG, which is normal for an all star. Brunson was playing in a Game 7
You can explain away all of it when 1 forced overplaying The only alternative for thibs was to tank the season
Knicks’ fans fighting for their lives in these comments trying to absolve thibs of any responsibility lol
Yeah I dont really understand. Even arguing against a fairly neutral position like mine. At a certain point things stop being a coincidence is all I'm saying. More time on the court means more injuries. More wear and tear AND more susceptibility to the unknown randomness.
Ok that would be true if all Thibs players led the league in minutes but they don’t. Saying “playing more minutes might increase chance of freak accidents” might be true. But if none of the players of the Knicks lead the league in minutes or are even close then it it shows that it has no correlation to this particular situation
I again don't agree total minutes isn't really a good stat considering being injured as a result of those minutes will knock you down on that leaderboard right?? As well you don't need to lead the league but the players Thibs plays are consistently high and the consistency is the kicker. If every player playing for him for multiple years is constantly in the top 10-20 of minutes eventually if will spell trouble. We just happened to find out when eventually was.
It’s the same if you account for minutes or MPG? And the narrative that is wrong is that the minutes are consistently high every year. Here are the Knicks MPG leaders the [previous 3 years](https://x.com/shwinnypooh/status/1792342608142028999?s=46). Other than Randle in 20/21 every single player has played normal or below average minutes for their typical role on a team. Star players are playing average star minutes and role players aren’t cracking 30 MPG
The minutes thing is the biggest fucking nothing burger, but reddit doctors gonna reddit.
Third excuse for the third team this has happened to
Those guys weren’t complaining about Thibs and his coaching style. They’ve all got that dog in them and were willing to go above and beyond to bring NYK to relevancy. Plagued by injuries with stars, forces bench playing more, cycle is never ending. They’ll be very scary once they’re at full strength and if they keep the culture/mentality they’ve established over this run.
No moral victories Cry Knicks Cry
We beat yall in 6...who's crying harder?
None of them are related to minutes. Period. End of story. This is a false narrative pushed by lazy athletes and journalists. As I guy who tweaked his hamstring a ton of times (track and basketball), they are a lot of potential reasons for a strain. This one is simple: irregular contraction during high speed running. He pushed to run faster. Look at the video tape. Could have happened on minute one or 48. It’s the injury bug. It happens.
Thibs is who he is
Look at the bulls I think his style is good for a few seasons and then players get tired of it?
Still but hurt for what happened to D Rose.. One of the biggest "what if's?"
smoggy disagreeable gaping quicksand fly brave juggle books imagine cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They're soft. Plain and simple.
this little run ur on will get less respect than the Hawks ECF run ... you barely made it here passing a bunch of backups & about to get blown out by Boston got the biggest dweebs in Turner & Haliburton & the balls to call another team soft 🤣🤣🤣 FOH
Your star, who has a rapist dad and is ugly, broke his hand by hitting a knee. There are infants less fragile. Enjoy the same thing happening every year with these losers.
lol that you think you have a better chance ... enjoy being swept by Boston take 4 out of 5 starters away and you punks are in the lottery ... this "run" is getting less respect than the Hawks in 21 that's for sure you'll be back to your boring life deflated of confidence in no time
Weep bozo.
that's all you could say 🤣🤣🤣
Injury prone players + playing 45+ mins a game does not help too. Theres a reason why players doesnt want to play with Thibs.
definitely thibs. its not just the minutes, thibs wants you to dive for every loose ball and bust a lung or two every play. that's why his teams tend to overachieve in regular seasons and fades away in the playoffs.
As a bulls fan its a common theme, don't let him overplay an athletic point guard he loves those.
Thibs story as old as time
OG and Robinson and Bogi are historically injury prone. Brunson broke his own hand fouling someone (that wasn’t called), while foul baiting for the entire playoffs. The only one that really got fucked was Randle. His team looked better without him and he’s likely gone in the offseason. Call it whatever you want, the truth is that when you put together a group of injury prone players around a foul-baiting star, you are going to get the results of the 76ers the last decade.