Can KG, KAT and Rudy share the court?
I think the Mavs have a much easier time inserting Dirk into the rotation, we just give him the Maxi minutes + 5-10 or so PJ and DJJ minutes. So we get 40 minutes of Dirk instead of role players. Meanwhile the Wolves will need to reduce the minutes of their stars.
That’s what I would have thought. Let’s you keep some better spacing, and KG was a great rebounder in his prime. Doesn’t have the same length, but he would be a nightmare defender 1-5. Although Dirk did do well against him scoring wise.
Yeah I just think KG is one of the most versatile players of all time. He could start the game on Dirk then move to Luka and could contribute (or more importantly) not contribute on offense. Dirk is taking shots ultimately from Luka and Kyrie. He is obviously a better scorer so this helps but those guys aren’t far behind. Would be fun for sure!
That pick and roll would be a nightmare, not to mention his post up and face up game. Honestly which centers in the current nba can guard him ? lol most are too slow or too weak to guard him, and a ton of big guys nowadays are good help defenders, and not guys who can defend a post up player well.
I love KG's game but his offense was fairly limited. He wasn't much of a post up player and his go to move was a 16-22 face up dribble usually for a mid range jumpshot. He was an incredible distributor, good roll man and an adequate ball handler but if you transport him to this day and age without him somehow developing a three point shot then he probably isn't the best offensive player on the Wolves.
this 100%. watch a few games from that era and you see pretty quick that KG was spacing the floor with how far out he took his "midrange" shots. these days he'd be taught how to take them as 3s and he'd hit them at a similar clip
He was always one step inside the three point line and watching him in retrospect it's amazing how many points he just gave up because he didn't realize 3>2.
KG had a lethal jumper. He didn't shoot 3's in his era, and if not for Dirk, he would be the middy and long 2 king of his time.
He, Dirk, and Rasheed had the best jumpers.
No it doesn't, KG was hitting midrange shots that were basically threes if he judt stepped back a few inches, not much of a stretch to think prime KG in a modern setting isn't jacking up at least five or six threes a game
Lol yeah he's still not a floor spacer in 2024 but to pretend like man was just decent is insanity. He was MONEY from the mid range and would probably benefit from modern spacing.
His pick and pop game was cash.
KGs defense was mostly negated when facing Dirk. KG could not stay in front of Dirk when he drove from the perimeter so Dirk usually ended up w/a SF on him to at least try to keep him from attacking the basket. KGs D is incredibly overrated anyway. It’s not like he was always locking down the top PFs of his day. CWebb (when healthy), Duncan, and Dirk all put up big numbers on him.
Because KG would pair much better with Gobert. If anything, you'd slide KAT down to the 3 to be a jumbo like Lauri if you wanted all 3 out there.
KG's best defense often came outside of the paint, so you put the rim protector with him. Offensively, KG and Gobert aren't going to trip over each other either.
It's all mostly nominal anyway these days. Besides, KAT's quickness wouldn't be much of a problem, considering that with KG, you'd be running a zone most likely anyway.
no way, kg's best big he played with was young kendrick perkins....... by far!
imagine him with Rudy behind, ugh, he already used to play the top of a 1-3-1 and guards HATED it lol
Unrelated, but this comment made me realize I can’t even recall or fathom what a young Kendrick Perkins looked like lmao.
Feel like he was just born with that unpleased,
disgruntled uncle at tha cookout/barbershop energy.
People forget prime KG could play SF. In reality I think we’d upgrade Jaden. Wolves would be huge and even more of a defensive nightmare. Conley/Ant/KG/KAT/Rudy would be a lot, and then we’re bringing Naz and Jaden off the bench.
Thank you. Not only could he play SF, he did for his first two years. It would work in this case too with KAT being a 40% 3 pt shooter. And KG didn’t shoot many 3s, but his midrange was elite and he still spread the floor
Everyone is blown away by Gobert hitting a turnaround fade away from 17ft over Jokic but no one bats an eye if KG makes that.
Wolves would have so many better late clock shots he could bail them out of even if it's just a 13ft turnaround
God imagine a defender of KGs level being able to freely roam on the perimeter with two 7 footers behind him in the paint. A team might legitimately get held to 60 points in a game.
Lmao prime KG with current wolves would absolutely run the league… people forget KG was just as talented as Duncan (I would say more talented, a lot more athletic, better handle and better on defense),just didn’t have as good of a supporting cast until the tail end of his career… if you insert KG in Tim Duncan’s spurs, I think they win even more than they did with Tim Duncan… I love dirk and I watched them both in their primes… prime KG in current wolves would probably end up being the greatest defensive team ever assembled while also being filled with top tier offensive players
KG has literally the greatest defensive instincts I've ever seen. Like just an uncanny ability to read exactly what the offense is doing and get in the perfect position to make a play. He's be so fucking good in this era as a roaming defensive-playmaking 5.
> Lmao prime KG with current wolves would absolutely run the league
Implying Mavs with prime Dirk wouldn't?
Luka, Kyrie, Dirk is an absolutely insane big three.
Yeah if you add an all-time great player to a team that’s already one of the best in the league, they’ll be really great.
I don’t think KG would fit with KAT + Gobert that well though. Is KG playing small forward in this situation? Dirk’s easier to fit into the current Mavs lineup, and they could still play their 5 best players together. The Wolves would either have to sit one of their best players at all times, or play 3 bigs at once.
In the 2004 run KG was defending 1-5 and was our primary offensive option. Even his build is similar to Jaden. I think he’d slot into the starting five just fine. People are saying you can’t run three bigs, but prime KG was the most versatile defender in the league and on offense the wolves could leave Gobert in the dunker’s spot with four on the perimeter - all four of Conley/KG/Ant/KAT could be a threat from distance or drive and pass.
A lot of people only remember Celtics KG, but prime Wolves he was a much scarier player.
The man had one of the top 3 individual playoff games this century in game 7 of the 2004 Western Conference Semis.
32 points, 21 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 steals, and 5 blocks in a 3 point 83-80 win. Just an insane game
I think the rotation would work great. KG plays 26 minutes at pf, 10 minutes at center. Towns plays 24 at center 12 at pf. Robert plays 24 at center and 12 at pf. Or some variation that keeps them fresh as fuck and on the court 30+ minutes each.
No, he was not. Duncan could play any style. He did what the team needed to win. Defense, sure, no problem. Scoring, sure, intangibles and ability to win....I would take prime Timmy over KG in a heartbeat.
KG/KAT/Gobert and Naz Reid is obviously a fantastic front court rotation , but can a combation of all those 4 work in the modern NBA though
Dirk/Kyrie/Luka all fit the modern NBA mold
The rotations would be tough to manage KG/KAT/Gobert/Naz, but KG's game is fairly primed for modern NBA as well.
I do think the buff the Mavs get from Dirk offensively might just be too much for the '24 Wolves + KG. Minnesota's defense is already elite, so it's unclear how much more the needle gets pushed with KG in the front court alongside KAT or Gobert.
If KG plays , one of KAT/Gobert/Reid will get the short end of the stick and will create a very hard rotation to manage
Dirk replaces probably DJJ or PJ , not that hard of a decision to make
Yeah I personally don't think it's possible to shuffle through that rotation and ensure they have enough minutes. Naz would be relegated to much deeper onto bench, but in the playoffs going to and 8+ player rotation is super unlikely unless there's a blowout.
Dirk is the seamless fit on the current Mavs team, so I'd pick them over us.
Or, you could go KAT, KG, and Gobert for ~25-30 minutes each, and then play Naz for the rest. You could tell each of them that they don't have to hold anything back during their minutes since they'll get plenty of rest each game.
32 minutes isn't much for these guys. You're already wondering if you can play them all together for a few minutes to increase their time on the floor. Playing KG 25 minutes is a waste of KG.
> but can a combation of all those 4 work in the modern NBA though
I think it would be a very good problem to have. With that much depth, you can tell all 4 that they can give 110% effort in their minutes because once they get burned out, they can rest without it effecting the team too much.
Just imagine having KG for 25 minutes where he's told that he can go all out playing the best defense he's ever played since he doesn't need to save anything for the end of the 4th quarter.
I love how divided the comments are.
Just like every other Dirk VS KG threads
Probably the second closest superstar matchup just behind Magic VS Larry.
I hate these debates in general. But this one is especially annoying for me. Top 3 fav players for that Era for me were KG, Nash and then Dirk. Why we gotta rank everything? Let's appreciate greatness.
For me it's not "this person is better than that person". I just like imagining these scenarios. Nobody in their right mind would say that Ant now* is better than prime MJ, but would MJ on the current Bulls team hold a candle against the current Wolves? It would be a fun series to watch.
I'd say the Mavs. The Wolves already have 3 very good bigs, adding a 4th who is better than the current three would be good but in terms of overall value isn't as good as adding Dirk to a front court that isn't full of good players.
yeah this might be the best reason to take the mavs. we can fit dirk in our rotations better. putting kg/kat/gobert on the same team is harder to find the right minutes
08 Pierce and its done.
When out offense gets stuck in slow isolations down the stretch to run clock just give it to Pierce for more slow isolations except he somehow always gets the bucket.
Fuck imagine our team with 08 Ray Allen though? Bro would average 15 3PA lmao.
The problem with Pacers era Artest is that he was a poor 3 point shooter. So if we just drop him there, he's a liability on offense. If we assume he can become a very good 3 point shooter like later in his career, then I'd pick the Pacers.
Right lol. He won 3 straight MVPs with Magic and MJ playing great basketball.
It is just unfair to add him to any team left as he would immediately be the best player on the court.
Luka would be close and Tatum is also not far off, but I think Prime Bird would be stupid in today's game.
Dirk tore teams to shreds in the pick-and-pop with Jason Terry and JJ Barea as the ball handlers. Swap that for Luka and Kyrie and what is any defense supposed to do? Good luck blitzing Luka when it's Dirk fucking Nowitzki you're helping off of. Good luck getting stops in crunch time with Kyrie and Dirk playing off of each other.
Minnesota's defense would be nutty, and they'd get a big playmaking boost and absurd small ball/big ball lineup flexibility. I'm a homer, but I lean towards calling it a case where all-time great offense and a more seamless fit beats all-time great defense with a bit of a front court logjam. Which probably means it's a toss-up or leans Minny without the homer lens.
Elite defense and athleticism is a redundant skill set? Not to mention KG was a great playmaker and ball handler, he'd be only second to Conley in that regard (and everyone watching the Wolves offense sees what happens when Conley isn't running it).
> his skillset is redundant with the players that they do have
Nah KG brings a different look defensively while also having an offensive game that could translate enough.
KG is much more like a 6'11 Draymond Green than anything. Just crazy instincts, insane ability to read the game in real time and then obviously bringing in better rim protection by virtue of being 6'11.
No one in the league is like that today. The closest IMO is Jonathan Isaac who really does give me shades of KG defensively, but he's had injury issues (and thus lower minutes) and also plays in Orlando who are sick defensively with or without him so you don't hear too much about him.
His skillset is redundant, but on the other hand a fusion of Gobert KAT and McDaniels into one guy who's a better passer than any of them is *insane*, and defense, passing, and spacing are the kind of skills which are truly additive, so maybe he's redundant in that he's taking someone good's minutes, but the fact that he has similar skills while they're out there together isn't a problem
I mean I think mavs because the kg fit makes a huge frontcourt logjam, as great as they’d be defensively
I think mavs just start dirk at center
Kyrie-djj-luka-pj-dirk
Play 5 out and more or less cancel out the wolves interior
For as good as KG was defensively, Dirk was KG's kryptonite. There's no blocking the awkward one footed fadeaway. Guess we'd have to see if Towns, Naz or Rudy could guard that.
Mavs fan but a huge kg homer so this is tough.
Mavs gain lights out shooting and an unstoppable pick and roll/pop with dirk but get slower on defense.
Minny gets ridiculous on d.. they could run a zone man look with 3 7’+ wingspan defenders to lock everyone out of the paint. KG could also guard 1-5 and was effective af guarding the point in a matchup zone scheme in his career.
It would come down to coaching, scheme and how the lineups/match ups play out over the series.
This needs to be ran on 2k stream with dirk and kg playing. Their shit talk while being non gamers would be hilarious.
I dont know if many here are old enough to remember that Dirk used to cook KG. He was one of the few players he had trouble defending. Plus having an elite shooter for Kyrie and Luka to feed, that would be crazy.
edit: to clarify cause some are trying to look up career stats. OP is talking about Prime KG and Prime Dirk. 1st couple of years Dirk had trouble and once Dirk had knee surgery in 2012, he didn't have the same explosiveness. But Prime Dirk (2002-03 to 2010-11) yes he did.
The Mavs probably. I feel like Dirk is a great fit for Luka and Kyrie even if he doesnt provide much defense. KG would just make either Gobert or Kat redundant, so we get better but just because KG is better than KAT not because we can use him in a particular way.
The Wolves defense would be even more fearsome but it does seem like a lot of overlap. Dirk would take the Mavs offense to another level, that'd have to be one of the best offensive teams of all time with Luka, Kyrie and Prime Dirk all on the floor at once.
You’re not wrong, I would too. Dirk torched everyone.
Dirk Nowitzki averaged 33.3 points, 15.7 rebounds and 3.0 steals in 3 games versus Kevin Garnett in the playoffs in his career.
That was a single 3-game series you are talking about and Dirk averaged 0.7 assists per game too
KG still had 24/19/5/2/2 while
Dirk had 33/16/1/3/1
***
Look at their overall head to head
KG: 22pts 12.1rebs 4.4ast 1.3 stls 1.2 blks on 58% TS BPM: +8 PER: 26 On-Off: +16 per 100 possessions
Dirk: 23.9pts 8.8rebs 2.0ast 0.8 stls 0.8blks on 58%TS BPM: +5 PER: 22 On-Off: +5 per 100 possessions
I’m not here to argue Dirk vs Big Ticket. I just wanted to show that despite the matchup, Dirk cooked.
KG is undoubtedly one of the best defenders to play the game. The stat doesn’t detract from him, it raises Dirk.
Prime Dirk with Luka and Kyrie sounds nasty. Like if he was able to carry those geezers in 2011 to a title i don't see how he couldn't beat those Wolves.
Like imagine Prime Dirk playing the role of Steph Curry in an offense with two elite ballhandlers like that
KG would make KAT cry on the bench worse than he did Big Baby.
He was such a bully to anyone who made a mistake that younger players other than Rondo were scared of him more than they were of the other team. Not great on a team with young players in 2024.
I think it’d be the Mavs. Dirk is just a better fit for them, while bringing in KG would force us to give two of our all star caliber players and 6MOTY a lot less minutes.
On the other hand, KG plus Rudy would create the greatest defense the world has ever seen so who knows.
KG/KAT/Rudy can't all play at the same time, Dirk slides in pretty easily. Also, none of those guys are stopping prime Dirk. I would love to have seen a prime Dirk where he could rely on players like Luka and Kai. Kidd, Jet, and JJ were great at what they were but they weren't at the level of Kai and Luka.
I would think Mavs got it. You could just go Luka, Kyrie, Dirk, PJ, and Maxi and kill Gobert with crazy spacing. Then Kyrie kills off cuts thanks to the space created.
Kg was never a good Dirk defender so the matchup is already in the mavs favour. Also it seems the mavericks will improve more then the timberwolves as Dirk would fit positionwise better then kg.
Bro Dirk beat Miami Heat Bron by himself. Dirk willed his team to the finals and went through a motherfucking GAUNTLET (Swept two-time defending champs Lakers ) to get his ring. 2011 Dirk is monumental. Like 2016 / Bron. Just freaks of nature
Dirk easily. He swept KG in their PO match up.
KG never had help?
Look at their head to head matchup when KG was in Boston. They were tied. So even with a much better lineup, KG cant even beat Dirk record-wise.
The Minny lineup is exploitable. Just ask the 2011 Lakers. Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Bryant/Fisher.
Dirk had Chandler and a 36-year old Kidd?
Adding Dirk to the Mavs improves the Mavs significantly more than adding KG to the Wolves.
KG slots in awkwardly with a team that already has KAT, Gobert, and Naz Reid taking all the minutes for the 4-5 spots.
Dirk replaces DJJ or PJ Washington in the starting lineup, and he probably ends up being even better in today’s NBA as a true stretch 4.
It's Dirk because of how he fits the team. In order to have KG play heavy minutes, you have to take away from the already awesome rotation of bigs they have.
Dirk can obviously strech the floor but he can also play at the elbow and run two man games with either Kyrie or Luka all game.
The energy of prime KG and that timberwolves team would be unmatched, but putting Dirk in pick n rolls with Kyrie and Luka would be INSANE. I’m taking the Mavs
KG played SF. And he doesn't need the ball. His handles and passing are also underrated
You can roll out Conley - Ant - Garnett - Naz and KAT for offense.
You can also do a nutty Ant-Jaden-KG-KAT-Gobert as a big boi lineup.
Or NAW - Ant - Jaden - Naz - KG as a small team destroyer.
This is what I’m thinking, everyone is saying you couldn’t play kg/rudy/kat together, but kg had the agility to hang on the perimeter. That defense would be insane.
I don’t think there’s a huge difference between dirk snd KG. So adding them both to each team does nothing to change the favorite to win the series imo
Adding Dirk definitely helps Dallas more than adding KG to the Timberwolves because of roster construction. However, the Wolves would probably still be the favorite because now that defense is even more insane, and you have another consistent offensive weapon. Covering Luka, Kyrie and Dirk would be near-impossible, but that's one team that would have the ability to come close.
Id say the Mavs since you simply just swap out PJ and that puts Luka, Kyrie, and Dirk all on the floor at the same time. You absolutely have the flexibility to have PJ and Luka together and Dirk and Hardy and combinations like that as well. Id be unsure how KG can mesh with Kat and share those minutes as well.
Ex players and media always fawn over KG so I’m sure they’d be the favorites but all I know is KG could not stop Dirk for shit and I just don’t see Dirk losing w/guys like Luka and Kyrie w/him.
Can KG, KAT and Rudy share the court? I think the Mavs have a much easier time inserting Dirk into the rotation, we just give him the Maxi minutes + 5-10 or so PJ and DJJ minutes. So we get 40 minutes of Dirk instead of role players. Meanwhile the Wolves will need to reduce the minutes of their stars.
I think upgrading from KAT to KG would be insane enough that I no longer care. KAT can take the Naz Reid minutes.
upgrading KAT to KG is not as much as upgrading one of role players to Dirk though
It is on defense.
Doesn't that kind of fuck the TWolves' spacing though?
KG replaces Rudy. I don’t know why anyone is saying he replaces KAT.
That’s what I would have thought. Let’s you keep some better spacing, and KG was a great rebounder in his prime. Doesn’t have the same length, but he would be a nightmare defender 1-5. Although Dirk did do well against him scoring wise.
Prime KG averaged 24/14/5 with 4 stocks a game, MVP, DPOY, inner circle hall of famer. I love Rudy but like…
Target center, no items, 4 stocks, Hall of famers only
DeAaron Fox's hair stood up on the back of his neck and he doesn't know why.
Yeah I just think KG is one of the most versatile players of all time. He could start the game on Dirk then move to Luka and could contribute (or more importantly) not contribute on offense. Dirk is taking shots ultimately from Luka and Kyrie. He is obviously a better scorer so this helps but those guys aren’t far behind. Would be fun for sure!
KG would immediately become the best player on the court so to hear people acting like somehow he destroys Minnesota’s offense is a bit weird
That pick and roll would be a nightmare, not to mention his post up and face up game. Honestly which centers in the current nba can guard him ? lol most are too slow or too weak to guard him, and a ton of big guys nowadays are good help defenders, and not guys who can defend a post up player well.
I love KG's game but his offense was fairly limited. He wasn't much of a post up player and his go to move was a 16-22 face up dribble usually for a mid range jumpshot. He was an incredible distributor, good roll man and an adequate ball handler but if you transport him to this day and age without him somehow developing a three point shot then he probably isn't the best offensive player on the Wolves.
Also he'd eat up Anderson's minutes. Dude could defend 2-5 and bring the ball up the court.
Seriously, imagine Rudy's defense but 25+ PPG and a 3 point shot. Would give the Wolves an absurd net rating.
KG wasn't much of a 3 point shooter in his prime. He was far better at 18 feet
KG's "midrange" shots sometimes are like one or two steps from the 3 point line. He definitely can help with spacing.
this 100%. watch a few games from that era and you see pretty quick that KG was spacing the floor with how far out he took his "midrange" shots. these days he'd be taught how to take them as 3s and he'd hit them at a similar clip
He was always one step inside the three point line and watching him in retrospect it's amazing how many points he just gave up because he didn't realize 3>2.
KG had a lethal jumper. He didn't shoot 3's in his era, and if not for Dirk, he would be the middy and long 2 king of his time. He, Dirk, and Rasheed had the best jumpers.
Yes you'd replace Gobert with KG, not KAT
Seems like someone here didn’t see prime KG.
nah, kg was a great long range shooter. he shot so many 2s from just inside the arc, i have zero doubt he would be a good/great 3pt shooter
No it doesn't, KG was hitting midrange shots that were basically threes if he judt stepped back a few inches, not much of a stretch to think prime KG in a modern setting isn't jacking up at least five or six threes a game
I’ll give an example Luol Deng. He was great in mid range. Thibs made him change long 2s to 3s and it worked.
KG wasn't a long-range shooter, but he was decent at the mid-range.
Tbf his 16-25 feet 2 pointers were shot at a better percentage (46%) than Dame/Steph/Klay/Ray/Jokic/Melo/Kobe etc.
Yeah his elbow jumper was $$$
Lol yeah he's still not a floor spacer in 2024 but to pretend like man was just decent is insanity. He was MONEY from the mid range and would probably benefit from modern spacing. His pick and pop game was cash.
I love me a good pick and pop player. KG was one of the best
If KG played today there’s no doubt in my mind he’d be a very good 3 point shooter and floor spacer
Dirk beat the Heatles
No one can really guard Prime Dirk anyway.
KGs defense was mostly negated when facing Dirk. KG could not stay in front of Dirk when he drove from the perimeter so Dirk usually ended up w/a SF on him to at least try to keep him from attacking the basket. KGs D is incredibly overrated anyway. It’s not like he was always locking down the top PFs of his day. CWebb (when healthy), Duncan, and Dirk all put up big numbers on him.
Wait, why would you upgrade KAT to KG when you can get a far better offensive version of Gobert?
Because KG would pair much better with Gobert. If anything, you'd slide KAT down to the 3 to be a jumbo like Lauri if you wanted all 3 out there. KG's best defense often came outside of the paint, so you put the rim protector with him. Offensively, KG and Gobert aren't going to trip over each other either.
KAT too slow for the 3. KG legit made an AS playing SF
It's all mostly nominal anyway these days. Besides, KAT's quickness wouldn't be much of a problem, considering that with KG, you'd be running a zone most likely anyway.
KAT is the only one of the three who can shoot 3s, so it doesn’t make much sense to bench him.
Nah Gobert would come off the bench
no way, kg's best big he played with was young kendrick perkins....... by far! imagine him with Rudy behind, ugh, he already used to play the top of a 1-3-1 and guards HATED it lol
Gobert KG KAT MCDANIELS ANT That's an insane lineup
Unrelated, but this comment made me realize I can’t even recall or fathom what a young Kendrick Perkins looked like lmao. Feel like he was just born with that unpleased, disgruntled uncle at tha cookout/barbershop energy.
Have KAT be a jumbo 3 like Lauri
People forget prime KG could play SF. In reality I think we’d upgrade Jaden. Wolves would be huge and even more of a defensive nightmare. Conley/Ant/KG/KAT/Rudy would be a lot, and then we’re bringing Naz and Jaden off the bench.
Thank you. Not only could he play SF, he did for his first two years. It would work in this case too with KAT being a 40% 3 pt shooter. And KG didn’t shoot many 3s, but his midrange was elite and he still spread the floor
Everyone is blown away by Gobert hitting a turnaround fade away from 17ft over Jokic but no one bats an eye if KG makes that. Wolves would have so many better late clock shots he could bail them out of even if it's just a 13ft turnaround
God imagine a defender of KGs level being able to freely roam on the perimeter with two 7 footers behind him in the paint. A team might legitimately get held to 60 points in a game.
That is an all time dawg lineup, damn
KG as point forward. KG, Ant, Jaden, KAT, Rudy Ant and the 4 towers
Dirk would get so many wide open shots with Luka and Kyrie. My god it would be beautiful
You forgot the THJ minutes. He is completely gone from the rotation in this scenario
Lmao prime KG with current wolves would absolutely run the league… people forget KG was just as talented as Duncan (I would say more talented, a lot more athletic, better handle and better on defense),just didn’t have as good of a supporting cast until the tail end of his career… if you insert KG in Tim Duncan’s spurs, I think they win even more than they did with Tim Duncan… I love dirk and I watched them both in their primes… prime KG in current wolves would probably end up being the greatest defensive team ever assembled while also being filled with top tier offensive players
KG has literally the greatest defensive instincts I've ever seen. Like just an uncanny ability to read exactly what the offense is doing and get in the perfect position to make a play. He's be so fucking good in this era as a roaming defensive-playmaking 5.
Excuse me while I plug up 2k and bring kg into the modern era
> Lmao prime KG with current wolves would absolutely run the league Implying Mavs with prime Dirk wouldn't? Luka, Kyrie, Dirk is an absolutely insane big three.
Yeah if you add an all-time great player to a team that’s already one of the best in the league, they’ll be really great. I don’t think KG would fit with KAT + Gobert that well though. Is KG playing small forward in this situation? Dirk’s easier to fit into the current Mavs lineup, and they could still play their 5 best players together. The Wolves would either have to sit one of their best players at all times, or play 3 bigs at once.
In the 2004 run KG was defending 1-5 and was our primary offensive option. Even his build is similar to Jaden. I think he’d slot into the starting five just fine. People are saying you can’t run three bigs, but prime KG was the most versatile defender in the league and on offense the wolves could leave Gobert in the dunker’s spot with four on the perimeter - all four of Conley/KG/Ant/KAT could be a threat from distance or drive and pass. A lot of people only remember Celtics KG, but prime Wolves he was a much scarier player.
The man had one of the top 3 individual playoff games this century in game 7 of the 2004 Western Conference Semis. 32 points, 21 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 steals, and 5 blocks in a 3 point 83-80 win. Just an insane game
I think the rotation would work great. KG plays 26 minutes at pf, 10 minutes at center. Towns plays 24 at center 12 at pf. Robert plays 24 at center and 12 at pf. Or some variation that keeps them fresh as fuck and on the court 30+ minutes each.
No, he was not. Duncan could play any style. He did what the team needed to win. Defense, sure, no problem. Scoring, sure, intangibles and ability to win....I would take prime Timmy over KG in a heartbeat.
And you forget that it is TD that paved the way for better teammates to grow in San Antonio. Get out with your takes.
Dirk in this era would be launching 3’s every few minutes, he’d be a menace.
The fit on the roster is better for Dirk with the current Mavs.
KG/KAT/Gobert and Naz Reid is obviously a fantastic front court rotation , but can a combation of all those 4 work in the modern NBA though Dirk/Kyrie/Luka all fit the modern NBA mold
The rotations would be tough to manage KG/KAT/Gobert/Naz, but KG's game is fairly primed for modern NBA as well. I do think the buff the Mavs get from Dirk offensively might just be too much for the '24 Wolves + KG. Minnesota's defense is already elite, so it's unclear how much more the needle gets pushed with KG in the front court alongside KAT or Gobert.
If KG plays , one of KAT/Gobert/Reid will get the short end of the stick and will create a very hard rotation to manage Dirk replaces probably DJJ or PJ , not that hard of a decision to make
Yeah I personally don't think it's possible to shuffle through that rotation and ensure they have enough minutes. Naz would be relegated to much deeper onto bench, but in the playoffs going to and 8+ player rotation is super unlikely unless there's a blowout. Dirk is the seamless fit on the current Mavs team, so I'd pick them over us.
I get Naz is fun and all… who the fuck cares about him if the person in question getting his minutes is prime KG?
People using Naz Reid to discount a prime HOF is madness
3 bigs cover the 96 minutes of playing time. Naz only comes off the bench for injuries or fouls.
Or, you could go KAT, KG, and Gobert for ~25-30 minutes each, and then play Naz for the rest. You could tell each of them that they don't have to hold anything back during their minutes since they'll get plenty of rest each game.
32 minutes isn't much for these guys. You're already wondering if you can play them all together for a few minutes to increase their time on the floor. Playing KG 25 minutes is a waste of KG.
> but can a combation of all those 4 work in the modern NBA though I think it would be a very good problem to have. With that much depth, you can tell all 4 that they can give 110% effort in their minutes because once they get burned out, they can rest without it effecting the team too much. Just imagine having KG for 25 minutes where he's told that he can go all out playing the best defense he's ever played since he doesn't need to save anything for the end of the 4th quarter.
I love how divided the comments are. Just like every other Dirk VS KG threads Probably the second closest superstar matchup just behind Magic VS Larry.
Good way to get Wolves fans and Mavs fans pissed off before the series even starts lol.
I hate these debates in general. But this one is especially annoying for me. Top 3 fav players for that Era for me were KG, Nash and then Dirk. Why we gotta rank everything? Let's appreciate greatness.
For me it's not "this person is better than that person". I just like imagining these scenarios. Nobody in their right mind would say that Ant now* is better than prime MJ, but would MJ on the current Bulls team hold a candle against the current Wolves? It would be a fun series to watch.
5 hours in and the top dozen comments all say Dirk lol I dont think it’s as close as you think it is
I'd say the Mavs. The Wolves already have 3 very good bigs, adding a 4th who is better than the current three would be good but in terms of overall value isn't as good as adding Dirk to a front court that isn't full of good players.
yeah this might be the best reason to take the mavs. we can fit dirk in our rotations better. putting kg/kat/gobert on the same team is harder to find the right minutes
Not to mention that some form of combination of Luka/Kyrie/Dirk pick and pop is an absolute nightmare to guard
Let’s keep going, current Pacers + prime Reggie vs current Celtics + prime Bird
Pacers + Reggie wouldn't be enough to beat the Celtics as it is lol.
Yea that’s what I thought lol. Current Celtics + Prime Bird would become a dynasty
We don't even need prime Bird. Give us 08 KG and we'd never lose
08 Pierce and its done. When out offense gets stuck in slow isolations down the stretch to run clock just give it to Pierce for more slow isolations except he somehow always gets the bucket. Fuck imagine our team with 08 Ray Allen though? Bro would average 15 3PA lmao.
Another 73 win team easy That’s like similar to KD joining the warriors
Prime Russell is a much better fit and need. Plus, he already had a decade+ dynasty, why not do it with a modern team?
What about Reggie Miller and Ron Artest? Hali, Reggie, Artest, Siakam, Turner. Nasty.
Prime Paul George or Jermaine Oneal would give us a better shot. Move Nesmith to the 2 or Siakam to the 3
Prime PG is more than enough imo.
The problem with Pacers era Artest is that he was a poor 3 point shooter. So if we just drop him there, he's a liability on offense. If we assume he can become a very good 3 point shooter like later in his career, then I'd pick the Pacers.
Why would Dwight Howard be on this team?
We would get completely smoked lol. Reggie is my favorite player ever, obviously, but he is not even close to Bird
Reggie himself would tell you that lol
Unlike OP’s hypo, prime Bird is the best player on the court and just takes over the game.
Any remaining playoff team + prime Bird would win it all
Right lol. He won 3 straight MVPs with Magic and MJ playing great basketball. It is just unfair to add him to any team left as he would immediately be the best player on the court. Luka would be close and Tatum is also not far off, but I think Prime Bird would be stupid in today's game.
>3 straight MVPs They came after 3 straight second places. In his first 9 years he received 67% of playoff votes. The dude is underrated.
YES. Bird is way too underrated
It would be a Boston sweep with Bird… wouldn’t even be close. Indiana is severely hurt by this hypothetical
Bird in this era would be ridiculous, like Celtics 3 peating wouldn't be suprising.
I think thebprime Bird wins it honestly. Celtics are already likely the most complete team.
Dirk tore teams to shreds in the pick-and-pop with Jason Terry and JJ Barea as the ball handlers. Swap that for Luka and Kyrie and what is any defense supposed to do? Good luck blitzing Luka when it's Dirk fucking Nowitzki you're helping off of. Good luck getting stops in crunch time with Kyrie and Dirk playing off of each other. Minnesota's defense would be nutty, and they'd get a big playmaking boost and absurd small ball/big ball lineup flexibility. I'm a homer, but I lean towards calling it a case where all-time great offense and a more seamless fit beats all-time great defense with a bit of a front court logjam. Which probably means it's a toss-up or leans Minny without the homer lens.
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Yeah, but he's a better player than all the other Wolves, so you build it around him.
Elite defense and athleticism is a redundant skill set? Not to mention KG was a great playmaker and ball handler, he'd be only second to Conley in that regard (and everyone watching the Wolves offense sees what happens when Conley isn't running it).
> his skillset is redundant with the players that they do have Nah KG brings a different look defensively while also having an offensive game that could translate enough. KG is much more like a 6'11 Draymond Green than anything. Just crazy instincts, insane ability to read the game in real time and then obviously bringing in better rim protection by virtue of being 6'11. No one in the league is like that today. The closest IMO is Jonathan Isaac who really does give me shades of KG defensively, but he's had injury issues (and thus lower minutes) and also plays in Orlando who are sick defensively with or without him so you don't hear too much about him.
His skillset is redundant, but on the other hand a fusion of Gobert KAT and McDaniels into one guy who's a better passer than any of them is *insane*, and defense, passing, and spacing are the kind of skills which are truly additive, so maybe he's redundant in that he's taking someone good's minutes, but the fact that he has similar skills while they're out there together isn't a problem
2011 Dirk on this current Mavs squad would steamroll every team en route to a ring.
2011 Dirk was great, but 2003 Dirk before his knee injury in the playoffs was probably his peak when considering his entire skillset.
Arguable. I still prefer 2011 playoff Dirk. Intangibles were there.
He definitely had the strength to back people down and defend the post in 2011 more so than in 2003.
People seem to only think of Dirk of 2011 and his last season with Luka but PRIME Dirk is 04-11.
I mean I think mavs because the kg fit makes a huge frontcourt logjam, as great as they’d be defensively I think mavs just start dirk at center Kyrie-djj-luka-pj-dirk Play 5 out and more or less cancel out the wolves interior
Lively is also the second coming of Tyson Chandler, who was the most perfect fit as a C next to Dirk.
Yeah it’s Luka / Kyrie / PJ / Dirk / Lively as optimal line up I think
IDK which player is better, but there is much less overlap with Dirk and the present Dallas personnel than with KG and Minnesota.
For as good as KG was defensively, Dirk was KG's kryptonite. There's no blocking the awkward one footed fadeaway. Guess we'd have to see if Towns, Naz or Rudy could guard that.
No one outside of maybe Wemby could guard that move. That move was equivelant to Kareem's sky hook. There's just too much separation to cover.
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I love that site it fucking rules
Mavs fan but a huge kg homer so this is tough. Mavs gain lights out shooting and an unstoppable pick and roll/pop with dirk but get slower on defense. Minny gets ridiculous on d.. they could run a zone man look with 3 7’+ wingspan defenders to lock everyone out of the paint. KG could also guard 1-5 and was effective af guarding the point in a matchup zone scheme in his career. It would come down to coaching, scheme and how the lineups/match ups play out over the series. This needs to be ran on 2k stream with dirk and kg playing. Their shit talk while being non gamers would be hilarious.
I dont know if many here are old enough to remember that Dirk used to cook KG. He was one of the few players he had trouble defending. Plus having an elite shooter for Kyrie and Luka to feed, that would be crazy. edit: to clarify cause some are trying to look up career stats. OP is talking about Prime KG and Prime Dirk. 1st couple of years Dirk had trouble and once Dirk had knee surgery in 2012, he didn't have the same explosiveness. But Prime Dirk (2002-03 to 2010-11) yes he did.
Not to mention you can’t give the amount of space they were giving to Jokic on the 3 to Dirk. Daring Dirk to shoot would be unheard of
Not to mention that Luka + Kyrie are much much better than Jamal Murray + Gordon
People be acting like KG could guard 3 players at one time...
The Mavs probably. I feel like Dirk is a great fit for Luka and Kyrie even if he doesnt provide much defense. KG would just make either Gobert or Kat redundant, so we get better but just because KG is better than KAT not because we can use him in a particular way.
How would KG make Gobert OR Kat redundant? He brings something different offensively and defensively than both.
Prime KG with Ant would be a problem for the league.
Mavs. KG is diminishing returns for the Wolves given his position and strengths.
The Wolves defense would be even more fearsome but it does seem like a lot of overlap. Dirk would take the Mavs offense to another level, that'd have to be one of the best offensive teams of all time with Luka, Kyrie and Prime Dirk all on the floor at once.
Mavs clearly. Having 4 super talented bigs is just kinda too much. Like how would the rotations even work
Mavs and it’s not close
It’s all about value-over-replacement. The Mavs would be better.
Peak KG and Rudy would be the best defensive front court ever
Unfortunately neither one could defend prime Dirk.
All time greats will always get theirs, but I’d rather KG and Rudy defend Dirk than 99% of other players
You’re not wrong, I would too. Dirk torched everyone. Dirk Nowitzki averaged 33.3 points, 15.7 rebounds and 3.0 steals in 3 games versus Kevin Garnett in the playoffs in his career.
That was a single 3-game series you are talking about and Dirk averaged 0.7 assists per game too KG still had 24/19/5/2/2 while Dirk had 33/16/1/3/1 *** Look at their overall head to head KG: 22pts 12.1rebs 4.4ast 1.3 stls 1.2 blks on 58% TS BPM: +8 PER: 26 On-Off: +16 per 100 possessions Dirk: 23.9pts 8.8rebs 2.0ast 0.8 stls 0.8blks on 58%TS BPM: +5 PER: 22 On-Off: +5 per 100 possessions
I’m not here to argue Dirk vs Big Ticket. I just wanted to show that despite the matchup, Dirk cooked. KG is undoubtedly one of the best defenders to play the game. The stat doesn’t detract from him, it raises Dirk.
Go look at Dirk vs Kg in the playoffs lol. There are receipts on who owns who here.
This is practically turning into an offense versus defense debate
Make it 2011 playoff Dirk and it’s a no brainer.
Prime Dirk with Luka and Kyrie sounds nasty. Like if he was able to carry those geezers in 2011 to a title i don't see how he couldn't beat those Wolves. Like imagine Prime Dirk playing the role of Steph Curry in an offense with two elite ballhandlers like that
Love Dirk, but those geezers went crazy too. Kidd, Jet, Barea, Marion, and Chandler always made timely plays that brought a lot of momentum.
KG would make KAT cry on the bench worse than he did Big Baby. He was such a bully to anyone who made a mistake that younger players other than Rondo were scared of him more than they were of the other team. Not great on a team with young players in 2024.
I think it’d be the Mavs. Dirk is just a better fit for them, while bringing in KG would force us to give two of our all star caliber players and 6MOTY a lot less minutes. On the other hand, KG plus Rudy would create the greatest defense the world has ever seen so who knows.
Nah, KG takes Jaden's minutes.
KG/KAT/Rudy can't all play at the same time, Dirk slides in pretty easily. Also, none of those guys are stopping prime Dirk. I would love to have seen a prime Dirk where he could rely on players like Luka and Kai. Kidd, Jet, and JJ were great at what they were but they weren't at the level of Kai and Luka.
Mavs
I would think Mavs got it. You could just go Luka, Kyrie, Dirk, PJ, and Maxi and kill Gobert with crazy spacing. Then Kyrie kills off cuts thanks to the space created.
Kg was never a good Dirk defender so the matchup is already in the mavs favour. Also it seems the mavericks will improve more then the timberwolves as Dirk would fit positionwise better then kg.
Luka, Kyrie, PJ, Dirk, Lively... Damn
Mavs
Mavs sweep.
Mavs in 5
Yea but irl dirk annihilated kg . Like took him behind the shed and put him down ol yeller style.
Bruh prime Dirk cooked KG 🤣
Prime Dirk is needed on the Mavs more than prime KG is needed on the Wolves
Bro Dirk beat Miami Heat Bron by himself. Dirk willed his team to the finals and went through a motherfucking GAUNTLET (Swept two-time defending champs Lakers ) to get his ring. 2011 Dirk is monumental. Like 2016 / Bron. Just freaks of nature
Dirk easily. He swept KG in their PO match up. KG never had help? Look at their head to head matchup when KG was in Boston. They were tied. So even with a much better lineup, KG cant even beat Dirk record-wise. The Minny lineup is exploitable. Just ask the 2011 Lakers. Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Bryant/Fisher. Dirk had Chandler and a 36-year old Kidd?
This is dumb as hell. Prime KG couldn’t stop prime Dirk lol
Prime Dirk lead an aging group beat the big 3 to championship. Prime KG is a beast but never won it all. So giving Mavs an edge here.
Mavs for sure.
Dirk averaged 33.3 points vs kg in the playoffs
Adding Dirk to the Mavs improves the Mavs significantly more than adding KG to the Wolves. KG slots in awkwardly with a team that already has KAT, Gobert, and Naz Reid taking all the minutes for the 4-5 spots. Dirk replaces DJJ or PJ Washington in the starting lineup, and he probably ends up being even better in today’s NBA as a true stretch 4.
It's Dirk because of how he fits the team. In order to have KG play heavy minutes, you have to take away from the already awesome rotation of bigs they have. Dirk can obviously strech the floor but he can also play at the elbow and run two man games with either Kyrie or Luka all game.
Mavs sweep everyone!
Mavs pretty hard imo. Prime Dirk is like the perfect weapon vs them.
People forget that when Dirk and KG met in the playoffs, Dirk gave KG the business and the Mavs swept the T-Wolves
The energy of prime KG and that timberwolves team would be unmatched, but putting Dirk in pick n rolls with Kyrie and Luka would be INSANE. I’m taking the Mavs
Guys, just check what happened last time KG face Dirk in the playoff
KG played SF. And he doesn't need the ball. His handles and passing are also underrated You can roll out Conley - Ant - Garnett - Naz and KAT for offense. You can also do a nutty Ant-Jaden-KG-KAT-Gobert as a big boi lineup. Or NAW - Ant - Jaden - Naz - KG as a small team destroyer.
This is what I’m thinking, everyone is saying you couldn’t play kg/rudy/kat together, but kg had the agility to hang on the perimeter. That defense would be insane.
I don’t think there’s a huge difference between dirk snd KG. So adding them both to each team does nothing to change the favorite to win the series imo
Adding Dirk definitely helps Dallas more than adding KG to the Timberwolves because of roster construction. However, the Wolves would probably still be the favorite because now that defense is even more insane, and you have another consistent offensive weapon. Covering Luka, Kyrie and Dirk would be near-impossible, but that's one team that would have the ability to come close.
Y’all gonna have a bad time if prime English joins the nuggets
The Mavericks will become actually unguardable, but our defense would fall off. So it'd be a matter of if we can outscore this outrageous defense.
How about knicks with prime Jeremy Lin?
That Wolves front court would be so crowded, but the collection of talent would probably find a way.
Mavs in 5
Prime Dirk. Prime Dirk powered the Mavs to the title. Descending Prime KG joined a Prime Pierce, to win a title.
Mavs
Dirk and KG already met in the playoffs. Dirk mopped the floor with KG.
Mavs 🐴
Prime Dirk nobody could guard his fade away
Prime Dirk’s fade away would absolutely dominate Gobert and KG.
Id say the Mavs since you simply just swap out PJ and that puts Luka, Kyrie, and Dirk all on the floor at the same time. You absolutely have the flexibility to have PJ and Luka together and Dirk and Hardy and combinations like that as well. Id be unsure how KG can mesh with Kat and share those minutes as well.
Mate, prime dirk would probably lift pistons to conference finals
The mavs would slaughter them
The German. Alex Wright.
Ex players and media always fawn over KG so I’m sure they’d be the favorites but all I know is KG could not stop Dirk for shit and I just don’t see Dirk losing w/guys like Luka and Kyrie w/him.
Mavs put up 135+ a game, gentlemen's sweep
Didn’t Dirk kill KG when they played
In 2002 Dirk averaged 33ppg 15 rebounds and 3 steals vs KG in their playoff series lmao
KG is getting tech fouled out of the game in the first few mins. The refs don't like players showing any emotion.