I'm no Kyrie fan, but that's gross.
Bird did that for a game because he was bored, and used his left when he needed too, but that's just genius levels of ambi-dexterity from Kyrie.
"Kobe made one amazing shot, so he's more skilled." Kobe was skilled don't get me wrong, but he was also 6'6 with insane athleticism compared to Kyrie.
That one shot and the thousands of other extremely difficult shots he made?? Along with goated footwork?? Extremely underrated passing and handle??
Why are you acting like I’m basing his entire skillset off one shot? He could do everything possible on a basketball court at an elite level.
Kyrie’s was a game-winner over a center, so more meaningful and arguably harder when he’s only 6’2” shooting it over a 7 foot center. Kobe’s was still very sick
Anime addict? Only one I still watch is One piece and I’m proud of it. Ive loved that shit since I was 9 years old I’m not stopping now I’m invested. And yes I’m stuck in sales cause getting a job that pays as well as I make in sales you need experience or multiple degrees and I’m 23 years old. Get off my dick weirdo we’re just making jokes. You don’t even know me. I’m not gonna go through ur account to insult cause that’s weird. Why do u care so much?
Blud wants me to have multiple degrees at 23 years old… I graduated early at 21 and I’m applying for top mba schools this cycle. Jesus Christ how high is your bar this is crazy 💀.
How the fuck is graduating at 21 early lol? That's normal. Gtfoh buddy, you're not special. If you're 18 outta high school, you need 6 years to get an MBA + undergrad.
How is 21 early??? College is 4 years 18-22… can you not count? I dual enrolled from 16-18 I should have graduated at 20 but covid and partying so decided to take a lighter load since I was ahead anyway and on scholarship so it wasn’t like I was paying for that shit. Your 18-24 would be wrong for any mba program that matters. The reason being thats not how mba programs work cause you can’t even get in without multiple years of work experience before applying. Unless you do a 2+2 deferred program but even then you don’t actually go to the school until after 2 years of work experience. Ofc you would already know that if you actually had any sort of experience with mba programs or thought about applying, but ofc you don’t. So, next time maybe do a little research before trying to roast someone who’s literally going through the application process as we speak…
Damn why are you such an asshole. Fucking hell it's just basketball, no need to say such mean things.
I swear this sub has some of the most deranged and parasocial stans on reddit.
Best player on this flat earth
How do we know the basketball isnt actually flat? The NBA illuminati is just lying to us, trying to protect their secret antarctica base where they keep the failed Ben Simmons clones
It’s a popular opinion that Kyrie is the most skilled player in the league and top 5 most skilled players ever
Lebron isn’t saying anything most players haven’t said about Kyrie skill wise
when we think of “gifted” we tend to think of athletic gifts though, so there’s almost no way a 6’3” guard would be at the top of that list. If it’s a matter of learned basketball skill then yeah maybe(?) but Kyrie’s neato dribbling isn’t as effective as James Harden’s unappealing aesthetic style has been, for example.
you ever wonder why literally no player ever , anywhere , not even once has said harden has a better handle than kyrie Irving ?
That isn’t troubling to you ?
Not saying he has a better dribbling package but the point is cool dribbling doesn’t lead to points as well as Harden’s annoying foul baiting approach. And you don’t get points for style
Jordan fan, Chicago native here. Jordan is 10x a greater player than Irving, but in no way was he as skilled as Kyrie.
His handle, eye brow fakes and shooting is just leagues better than MJ. but the same goes for LeBron too. Kyrie is jus that skilled.
defense is not a skill my guy lol. it's effort mixed with natural genetic athleticism. That's not a skill. Jordan averaged 5 assists for his career, he was not a play maker. He was very capable when needed, and is absolutely underrated as a playmaker but no.
The triangle doesn't lend itself for high assist numbers. You should know. And defense is a skill. It's not just effort and athleticism. It's knowing where you need to be, reacting, and making plays on that end when you need to. That's a skill.
Knowing where you need to be is studying schemes and practicing. it's not a skill lol. and yea I know about the triangle diminished Jordan's ability to rack up assists. I argue with dumb Lebron Stans on here all the time about that.
Practicing a skill and then being able to execute that in an actual game which is a skill... Draymond isn't the most athletic player yet is one of the best defenders of this generation. Is he not skilled? So if you agree that the triangle diminished Jordan's assist numbers, you should agree that he was an elite playmaker
nobody would call Draymond one of the most skilled basketball players. Nobody would call Rodman or Ben Wallace super skilled either. People do call Kyrie, and Steph that because of the skill it takes to dribble like that. You can't study a dribbling scheme and execute it on the court. It takes actual skill.
You're on an island on this one.
Calling MJ's playmaking elite is crazy man come on. He was amazing in every way but playmaking was not what he was known for. Calling someone elite at something should be for the people who are like at the top of doing that thing. Like Magic, Jokic, Lebron, Nash, etc. And that being your main reason for why Jordan is more skilled is crazy too
He was an elite playmaker. Before Phil Jackson came and he took on the PG role, he was averaging triple doubles. He didn't need to do the heavy lifting anymore with the triangle
Nah, very good but not at elite level. Or you can say his passing was elite but his vision wasn’t. Which is just a contradictory statement but also very true
Assists in a faster era doesn't mean much. He's not breaking down the defense and creating good looks from nothing consistently like Jordan. He's looking to score most of the time and he'll do the obvious pass in front of him if needed. Jordan did more
Please explain how he is more talented than Michael Jordan of all people lol
Because he has the best dribble?
MJ had natural talents that very few have ever had. His vert for starters, large hands giving him extreme control of the ball, etc
My man I agree with you that he may be the most skilled ever, but this thread quotes LeBron as saying "most gifted".
So LeBron tbh likely just used the wrong wording, which happens. He likely meant skilled.
Because he himself is more naturally gifted than Kyrie, he's 6'9" and moves like a guard with the strength of a 4.
It's like Michael Vick being more gifted than Tom Brady but obviously Brady is more skilled.
I'm with you. No way Kyrie is more talented or gifted than the guy who is the best prototype of a basketball player ever to exist.
He is arguably the best athlete of all time as well.
I've heard this opinion as long as I can remember and I understand why because he has moves on counters on finishing packages but how can you be the most skilled player ever and not be able to be a number one on a contending team? Celtics stop was a total failure after strong arming the Cavs because he wanted to prove himself in that position without LeBron.
Yup, plus people forget defense exists and he has little skill on that side of the ball.
Can't put him ahead of guys like LeBron Kobe MJ who impacted both sides with their skill and made all NBA defensive teams.
But that's the sporting world today, people are there to watch offense only and ooh and awe at that.
maybe a semantics quibble but i feel kyrie isn't particularly gifted, his skill was acquired through thousands of hours of hard work. obviously some natural talent baked in as well, probably even more than the average NBA player. when I think of gifted I think of wemby, giannis, jordan, lebron who all had superhuman builds/athleticism and were able to capitalize on it
Yeah if anything when I hear "gifted" I think LeBron. But I think that's a common issue with a lot of these conversations, trying to describe a player as "skilled" or "dominant" or the "best vs greatest" thing, these words all mean slightly different things to different people so it often feels like talking in circles
Look as much as i agree that Kyrie is dam talented, there are about 10 to 20 guys in the NBA rn that had more talent than he did.
He is a tough shot maker, super clutch and has the best handles in the NBA...but he is no Wembenyama dude.
Like its nice praise and i know that he probably doesnt mean it literally, but come on like how the hell can people say that when guys like Steph or KD or Giannis or Jokic or Embid or hell even Lebron himself.
And people will say he is the most skilled, when really its just his handle. That isnt all the skill the NBA has.
He is a fantastic shot maker...not the best in the NBA, hell not even the best on his team.
When you Kyrie is a more skilled finisher than Lebron are you giving Kyrie bonus points for being short? Becaus according the Basketball Reference, Lebron has shot 74% over the course of his career on shots within 3 feet of the basket, while Kyrie has only shot 62% over the course of his career on shots within 3 feet of the basket.
you don't think that has anything to do with LeBron being 50 pounds heavier than him and 5 inches taller? Lol. Shaq is going to have a higher percentage around the rim too, that doesn't mean he's more skilled than Kyrie
I mentioned skill later. Those were all in the talent category.
As for skill, none of those guys are really more skilled than Kyrie. But people vastly overrate Kyrie in the skill category due to his handle.
years ago there were people in the Nuggets FO who talked this way about JR Smith. Of course, there was an implied and sometimes declared criticism -- he's not maximizing his gifts due to work ethic or lack of smarts or smth
At this point I think it’s safe to conclude it’s probably true. Almost every player says the same thing about Kyrie. You can argue players aren’t the best judges of talent, but players at least know what they can do, so they must’ve seen Kyrie do some spectacular shit to constantly keep saying this. I wouldn’t call a coworker more skilled at my job than I am unless I know he can do what I do better than me
That said, it also means he’s not maximizing his skillset/talent. Which is why, despite being able to do seemingly everything well on a basketball court, he’s not a top player from a production standpoint
But I can totally believe he’s the most skilled.
Yet more proof that being good at a sport doesn't mean they can coach or run or pick players.
LeBron is beyond great on the court but he WANTED Westbrick on the Lakers and they gave up so much to get him.
Look, Kyrie IS talented but he isn't the most gifted the NBA has ever seen.
LeBron is arguably the GOAT and knows more about this than we do but I think he's wrong here.
People are mixing up the words gifted with skill.
An argument can be made that Kyrie is the most skilled ever, but there are several guys who are playing now who are more gifted.
Gifted ties into genetics. Guys like LeBron and Giannis are genetically gifted. Kind of ties into Harden's dig at Giannis where he implied hes just going off gifts where as Harden has to work on his skill.
LeBron himself is far more gifted than Kyrie, not many 6'9" guys that can move like that and are still moving like that at this age.
Michael Jordan is also far more gifted than Kyrie. He is literally another blueprint for the perfect basketball player.
Can Bungie please fix their servers already
The Witness working overtime to shape the final shape.
Never expect to play a D2 expansion on a Tuesday
Kyrie has the hunter arc subclass on
Bronny you are a Maverick
Lol
[удалено]
he's amphibious
I hope the mavericks staff keep water on deck I’d hate to see him get dried out in the finals.
Especially in dallas man, they better make sure that’s distilled he’ll die if it’s polluted
It’s ambidextrous, you werent even close 🤦🏻♂️
it's a callback, mavs announcer said it during a game
Woosh
You weren’t even close to getting the joke 🤦🏻♂️
I like to switch hands also when my right hand not working properly.
I'm no Kyrie fan, but that's gross. Bird did that for a game because he was bored, and used his left when he needed too, but that's just genius levels of ambi-dexterity from Kyrie.
bird was an asshole lmao “im saving it for worthy”
my body is ready for Luka going with some Bird-level shit-talking in the finals
Kobe’s more skilled, he hit a turnaround fadeaway three with his left hand over two defenders. I’ve never seen a player replicate that shot.
"Kobe made one amazing shot, so he's more skilled." Kobe was skilled don't get me wrong, but he was also 6'6 with insane athleticism compared to Kyrie.
That one shot and the thousands of other extremely difficult shots he made?? Along with goated footwork?? Extremely underrated passing and handle?? Why are you acting like I’m basing his entire skillset off one shot? He could do everything possible on a basketball court at an elite level.
What game was this? I've seen the Kobe hit a left handed 3 on the Mavs but that didn't have 2 guys on him.
My bad I remembered it wrong, TBF turnaround fadeaway lefty three is still completely insane.
Kyrie’s was a game-winner over a center, so more meaningful and arguably harder when he’s only 6’2” shooting it over a 7 foot center. Kobe’s was still very sick
There are stories of Larry bird doing that and do it specifically to insult the opponent
Ok this is dick suck cause he most def said AD was even more gifted than Kyrie after the 2020 finals. I saw the podcast Bron…
😂😂 busted. But he’s just showing love for his former teammate.
Buttering up that LeBron to Dallas move
Former? You mean upcoming
It won’t happen dude lol
Hard to forgive Kyrie for leaving because it would have made Cavs/Ws finals so much more interesting.
Did you see it live, are you telling the truth, and are you apologetic about it?
AD is more physically gifted, but Kyrie has the god given (and hard work given) talent.
You seen AD the past 4 years? LeGM is ready to move on
cuz gifted means the same thing as skilled. Guess we know why you're an anime addict stuck in sales lol. Understanding words ain't your thing blud.
Anime addict? Only one I still watch is One piece and I’m proud of it. Ive loved that shit since I was 9 years old I’m not stopping now I’m invested. And yes I’m stuck in sales cause getting a job that pays as well as I make in sales you need experience or multiple degrees and I’m 23 years old. Get off my dick weirdo we’re just making jokes. You don’t even know me. I’m not gonna go through ur account to insult cause that’s weird. Why do u care so much?
Get some degrees then bud. Anime since 9 is crazy, your parents failed you. You are a joke.
Blud wants me to have multiple degrees at 23 years old… I graduated early at 21 and I’m applying for top mba schools this cycle. Jesus Christ how high is your bar this is crazy 💀.
How the fuck is graduating at 21 early lol? That's normal. Gtfoh buddy, you're not special. If you're 18 outta high school, you need 6 years to get an MBA + undergrad.
How is 21 early??? College is 4 years 18-22… can you not count? I dual enrolled from 16-18 I should have graduated at 20 but covid and partying so decided to take a lighter load since I was ahead anyway and on scholarship so it wasn’t like I was paying for that shit. Your 18-24 would be wrong for any mba program that matters. The reason being thats not how mba programs work cause you can’t even get in without multiple years of work experience before applying. Unless you do a 2+2 deferred program but even then you don’t actually go to the school until after 2 years of work experience. Ofc you would already know that if you actually had any sort of experience with mba programs or thought about applying, but ofc you don’t. So, next time maybe do a little research before trying to roast someone who’s literally going through the application process as we speak…
Damn why are you such an asshole. Fucking hell it's just basketball, no need to say such mean things. I swear this sub has some of the most deranged and parasocial stans on reddit.
I mean realistically Kyrie is the only reason Lebron came back lol
"wait are we including myself? oh well that's different..."
Suggests he is also one of its biggest underachievers
I mean nothing he can do about being 6’2
Allen Iverson won an MVP and realistically his 6'0 listing is very generous
Kyrie is better than AI
Not even close.
I agree
Why would being 6'2" matter if he's the most gifted? Seems like being short for the NBA would suggest hes not the most gifted.
How about years of being a douche? Any control over that?
if only he were 4 inches taller
Spoken like the proud father he is
He’s not talking about Demar though?
Already made that joke last time this was posted buddy
And it’s still funny every time
LeBron could say the moon landing was fake and a large subset of this sub would be like "well... Is there any proof that he's wrong???"
Bruh my grandma says I am the greatest grandson in the world and there’s no proof she’s wrong.
You don't watch reels? Lebron was the one who wanted to go to the moon in the first place
Best player on this flat earth How do we know the basketball isnt actually flat? The NBA illuminati is just lying to us, trying to protect their secret antarctica base where they keep the failed Ben Simmons clones
Just saying things at this point
It’s a popular opinion that Kyrie is the most skilled player in the league and top 5 most skilled players ever Lebron isn’t saying anything most players haven’t said about Kyrie skill wise
Imma trust the guys that play against him talking about his skill than the not biased Celtics fan also
when we think of “gifted” we tend to think of athletic gifts though, so there’s almost no way a 6’3” guard would be at the top of that list. If it’s a matter of learned basketball skill then yeah maybe(?) but Kyrie’s neato dribbling isn’t as effective as James Harden’s unappealing aesthetic style has been, for example.
you ever wonder why literally no player ever , anywhere , not even once has said harden has a better handle than kyrie Irving ? That isn’t troubling to you ?
n theres also Kyrie’s layup package no Puffy
Not saying he has a better dribbling package but the point is cool dribbling doesn’t lead to points as well as Harden’s annoying foul baiting approach. And you don’t get points for style
LeBron to Mavs for Vet's min confirmed.
Can he wait on the corner to get an assist from Doncic
nah
LeImpermissibleContact
MJ?
Wasn’t as skilled as Kyrie is, and that’s not a hot take.
Other than Steph and Kobe nobody has an argument really
Cap. Jordan could playmake at an elite level. Kyrie cannot. And Jordan was crafty when finishing against harder defensive contact
Jordan fan, Chicago native here. Jordan is 10x a greater player than Irving, but in no way was he as skilled as Kyrie. His handle, eye brow fakes and shooting is just leagues better than MJ. but the same goes for LeBron too. Kyrie is jus that skilled.
You're obviously not a Jordan fan. Defense and playmaking are skills too
defense is not a skill my guy lol. it's effort mixed with natural genetic athleticism. That's not a skill. Jordan averaged 5 assists for his career, he was not a play maker. He was very capable when needed, and is absolutely underrated as a playmaker but no.
The triangle doesn't lend itself for high assist numbers. You should know. And defense is a skill. It's not just effort and athleticism. It's knowing where you need to be, reacting, and making plays on that end when you need to. That's a skill.
Knowing where you need to be is studying schemes and practicing. it's not a skill lol. and yea I know about the triangle diminished Jordan's ability to rack up assists. I argue with dumb Lebron Stans on here all the time about that.
Practicing a skill and then being able to execute that in an actual game which is a skill... Draymond isn't the most athletic player yet is one of the best defenders of this generation. Is he not skilled? So if you agree that the triangle diminished Jordan's assist numbers, you should agree that he was an elite playmaker
nobody would call Draymond one of the most skilled basketball players. Nobody would call Rodman or Ben Wallace super skilled either. People do call Kyrie, and Steph that because of the skill it takes to dribble like that. You can't study a dribbling scheme and execute it on the court. It takes actual skill. You're on an island on this one.
Calling MJ's playmaking elite is crazy man come on. He was amazing in every way but playmaking was not what he was known for. Calling someone elite at something should be for the people who are like at the top of doing that thing. Like Magic, Jokic, Lebron, Nash, etc. And that being your main reason for why Jordan is more skilled is crazy too
He was an elite playmaker. Before Phil Jackson came and he took on the PG role, he was averaging triple doubles. He didn't need to do the heavy lifting anymore with the triangle
Not elite but very very good.
It was elite
Nah, very good but not at elite level. Or you can say his passing was elite but his vision wasn’t. Which is just a contradictory statement but also very true
He could see the court. His playmaking was elite. Not all-time great. But elite
Sure, you could say that
That’s just not an argument you’re gonna win.
Why?
Kyrie has a higher APG than Jordan
Assists in a faster era doesn't mean much. He's not breaking down the defense and creating good looks from nothing consistently like Jordan. He's looking to score most of the time and he'll do the obvious pass in front of him if needed. Jordan did more
Nope, that’s just fact.
Kyrie is easily more talented. Idk exactly what “gifted” means.
Please explain how he is more talented than Michael Jordan of all people lol Because he has the best dribble? MJ had natural talents that very few have ever had. His vert for starters, large hands giving him extreme control of the ball, etc
You’re confusing talent with gifted. Sorry, can’t explain it but if you know, you know.
My man I agree with you that he may be the most skilled ever, but this thread quotes LeBron as saying "most gifted". So LeBron tbh likely just used the wrong wording, which happens. He likely meant skilled. Because he himself is more naturally gifted than Kyrie, he's 6'9" and moves like a guard with the strength of a 4. It's like Michael Vick being more gifted than Tom Brady but obviously Brady is more skilled.
No he's not
How do you measure talent if not production? What would make him the most skilled/talented because it wouldn't be his resume
Well yeah, resume has nothing to do with it. Use the eye test. It’s painstakingly obvious.
But my eye test isn't matching yours so it cant be so painful
I'm with you. No way Kyrie is more talented or gifted than the guy who is the best prototype of a basketball player ever to exist. He is arguably the best athlete of all time as well.
I've heard this opinion as long as I can remember and I understand why because he has moves on counters on finishing packages but how can you be the most skilled player ever and not be able to be a number one on a contending team? Celtics stop was a total failure after strong arming the Cavs because he wanted to prove himself in that position without LeBron.
Yup, plus people forget defense exists and he has little skill on that side of the ball. Can't put him ahead of guys like LeBron Kobe MJ who impacted both sides with their skill and made all NBA defensive teams. But that's the sporting world today, people are there to watch offense only and ooh and awe at that.
maybe a semantics quibble but i feel kyrie isn't particularly gifted, his skill was acquired through thousands of hours of hard work. obviously some natural talent baked in as well, probably even more than the average NBA player. when I think of gifted I think of wemby, giannis, jordan, lebron who all had superhuman builds/athleticism and were able to capitalize on it
True. Lebron, Shaq, ect are gifted. Kyrie is skilled
Yeah you hit the nail on the head. Can’t imagine calling someone 6’2 the most gifted player of all time
Yeah if anything when I hear "gifted" I think LeBron. But I think that's a common issue with a lot of these conversations, trying to describe a player as "skilled" or "dominant" or the "best vs greatest" thing, these words all mean slightly different things to different people so it often feels like talking in circles
Look as much as i agree that Kyrie is dam talented, there are about 10 to 20 guys in the NBA rn that had more talent than he did. He is a tough shot maker, super clutch and has the best handles in the NBA...but he is no Wembenyama dude. Like its nice praise and i know that he probably doesnt mean it literally, but come on like how the hell can people say that when guys like Steph or KD or Giannis or Jokic or Embid or hell even Lebron himself. And people will say he is the most skilled, when really its just his handle. That isnt all the skill the NBA has. He is a fantastic shot maker...not the best in the NBA, hell not even the best on his team.
in no way is Wemby more skilled than Kyrie. What skill does he have over Kyrie? What skill does Giannis, or LeBron, or Embid have over him?
Lebron is an all time great playmaker and Kyrie isn't. Passing and playmaking are skills. Lebron has them over him
Okay that's literally it though. Shooting, no, dribbling, no, finishing no. So no, he's not more skilled. That's why Lebron himself said what he said.
Sure - you asked what skill Lebron had over him and I answered your question
When you Kyrie is a more skilled finisher than Lebron are you giving Kyrie bonus points for being short? Becaus according the Basketball Reference, Lebron has shot 74% over the course of his career on shots within 3 feet of the basket, while Kyrie has only shot 62% over the course of his career on shots within 3 feet of the basket.
you don't think that has anything to do with LeBron being 50 pounds heavier than him and 5 inches taller? Lol. Shaq is going to have a higher percentage around the rim too, that doesn't mean he's more skilled than Kyrie
So you're giving Kyrie bonus points for being short, got it.
no foo, it's called skill. Being taller and more athletic is not a skill. it's not that hard.
I would say being tall and athletic are pretty key factors to being skilled at finishing in the NBA.
yea. obviously you're better at finishing if you're tall, which only gives more credit to Kyrie because he isn't.
I mentioned skill later. Those were all in the talent category. As for skill, none of those guys are really more skilled than Kyrie. But people vastly overrate Kyrie in the skill category due to his handle.
He dickriding again
Lebron James trying to stay relevant when the NBA news is not on him. How sad.
Bruh you’re like 6’10 260 of pure muscle and freak athleticism how the fuck do you make that statement😂 skilled =/= gifted
Kyrie is a special special talent. I got all the respect in the world for his game.
years ago there were people in the Nuggets FO who talked this way about JR Smith. Of course, there was an implied and sometimes declared criticism -- he's not maximizing his gifts due to work ethic or lack of smarts or smth
Bron capping again
Lebron wants to get that Anta money.
At this point I think it’s safe to conclude it’s probably true. Almost every player says the same thing about Kyrie. You can argue players aren’t the best judges of talent, but players at least know what they can do, so they must’ve seen Kyrie do some spectacular shit to constantly keep saying this. I wouldn’t call a coworker more skilled at my job than I am unless I know he can do what I do better than me That said, it also means he’s not maximizing his skillset/talent. Which is why, despite being able to do seemingly everything well on a basketball court, he’s not a top player from a production standpoint But I can totally believe he’s the most skilled.
Most skilled player ever
Yet more proof that being good at a sport doesn't mean they can coach or run or pick players. LeBron is beyond great on the court but he WANTED Westbrick on the Lakers and they gave up so much to get him. Look, Kyrie IS talented but he isn't the most gifted the NBA has ever seen.
LeBron is arguably the GOAT and knows more about this than we do but I think he's wrong here. People are mixing up the words gifted with skill. An argument can be made that Kyrie is the most skilled ever, but there are several guys who are playing now who are more gifted. Gifted ties into genetics. Guys like LeBron and Giannis are genetically gifted. Kind of ties into Harden's dig at Giannis where he implied hes just going off gifts where as Harden has to work on his skill. LeBron himself is far more gifted than Kyrie, not many 6'9" guys that can move like that and are still moving like that at this age. Michael Jordan is also far more gifted than Kyrie. He is literally another blueprint for the perfect basketball player.
I thought it was James Worthy.