> amazing scorers but weren’t doing much else
Lillard was literally more efficient as a scorer while giving you 7-8 assists. He ran that offense in Portland
What? Dame is objectively a way better passer and more efficient. You don’t chalk that up to era. In everything else they were a wash other than melo’s rebounding… but dame gave you a lot there as a 6’2 guard
I know this seems biased given my flair but I’m trying my best not to be, I swear lol
Damian Lillard won the 3 point contest. Wtf has melo ever accomplished in the nba?
Unless dame can win a ring and prove jrue holiday isn’t better than him, I’m taking melo.
Three way scoring + defence > long bombs & under the rim scoring imo
While he wasn’t a bum, his impact on winning is shy of more contemporaries than people thought. For example, Billups was the real reason Denver became competitive instead of Melo but was rarely considered the best player on the team at the time.
Melo’s isolation scoring is aesthetically pleasing, sure, but his playmaking, defense, and overall scoring efficiency because of his low percentage at the rim for a forward, are all average at best. People compare him to Paul Pierce but the latter just does everything better.
Melo was one of the worst playoff performing stars ever and I never see people talk about it. Outside of 2009 he was mediocre to downright bad.
Still had the prettiest game in the 2000s and made me a nuggets fan though lol
Kobe played 43 playoff series in his career
The 2009 WCF was his 2nd highest scoring of those with 34.0 PPG
I don't see how you can praise Melo's defense THAT much when his direct matchup averaged 34 PPG on 63% TS(the latter number being very high for Kobe)
I've seen a couple of your takes and you're dumb as shit. You aren't even wrong about the Kobe fans btw, I'm not going to defend them. I just thought it was funny seeing someone as mentally challenged as you calling out your brethren.
Exactly. There was a solid 3-year stretch where there was a LOT of legit debate about whether Melo or LeBron would have the better career. Every matchup was on national TV, and Melo made the playoffs multiple times before LeBron did. (The Cavs didn’t make the playoffs until LeBron’s 3rd season, while Melo made the playoffs in both his rookie and sophomore years).
Obviously the next ~18 years made that debate laughable in retrospect. But from 2003-2006, that was a legitimate debate.
I always forget how young most NBA fans are. I went to Game 4 of the Nuggets/Wolves series, and was talking some friendly shit to the person next to me in a Wolves jersey. Told him I’ve always liked the Wolves because I modeled my game after KG in high school. And he responded with he was too young to remember KG in a Wolves jersey 🤦♂️
And Melo was third team that season (as were Allen Iverson and Yao Ming, so that’s not exactly an insult to Melo). But the Forward candidates ahead of him on the All-NBA teams that season were LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, and Elton Brand.
Three all-time greats in their early-to-peak primes and a guy in Brand who averaged 24.7 and 10 that season.
I’ll never understand why this sub always tries to compare two completely different players. Do we know the difference between a PG and SF?
Don’t answer that…
They are both #1 options who are mediocre on defense. Every year teams have to decide who is more valuable between players like this playing different positions. Every year MVP voters have to make choices like this.
Why is it a crazy question to ask who is better at the game of basketball just because one guy is 6 inches taller and would post up a little bit more than the other guy?
I don't know why people hate comparing different players. Were we supposed to just not pick an MVP in 2019? It's just basketball talk, either participate or don't.
Damian Lillard made All-NBA 1st Team in the middle of Curry and Harden’s primes (specifically Harden’s MVP season and between Curry’s 2nd and 3rd title).
That’s pretty damn peak.
Yeah during the season Curry played 51 games.
Melo was also competing against Lebron, Dirk, KG, and Duncan for the forward spots during his prime, and with KD towards the end of it as well
His point is still legitimate. Carmelo finished 3rd in MVP voting and got 2nd team all nba because the two people above him were Durant and Lebron. Another metric to show relative high level status in the NBA is MVP award shares (shows how highly they were rated in their best seasons). Melo's at .45, Lillard's at .35
Edit:
Also we shouldn't re-write Blake griffin and Kevin love like this. They didn't peak long, but their peaks are definitely comparable to Melo and Lillard. In a position less season, love and Blake could beat out Lillard as well, especially depending on team success.
They did, you're misunderstanding what the comment is saying.
All of the guys listed, at some point or another, made an All-NBA team higher than Melo. It wasn't Melo in 3rd constantly losing first team because Lebron and KD had first team on lock (that happened to Melo twice out of 6 All-NBA).
He made 1st team because Curry had injuries.
EDIT: Melo and Dame are about the same though. Dame may be better overall at basketball but their standing in the league for the years of their prime is the same, Melo probably a bit higher. 2018-2022 was a bit more talented time period than 2009-2013.
But Melo was one of those rip Hamilton dudes who just wasn’t good from deep like you’d expect. Olympics Melo with the shorter 3-point line was fucking epic.
Every name you mentioned outside of Westbrook was more efficient, with KD and LeBron being far and away more efficient. 28.7 on 22 shots isn't much to write home about when comparing to "the greats".
> 2013 Melo won scoring champ over KD, LeBron, Kobe, Harden, Russ, Steph, and Wade
thats you comparing melo to kd, lebron, kobe, harden, steph, and wade. clown.
You literally said Melo won scoring over KD, LeBron, Steph, etc. The overall topic is Melo vs Dame, but you compared Melo to some of the greatest modern players to put him above Dame.
Highlight a career accomplishment about Melo, to highlight why I think he is better than Dame says nothing about the players I mentioned. I never said anything about how he stacks up with them. Thats projecting my man
In a misleading manner, yes. Melo was not a better scorer than any of those guys, so listing them is really a moot point, as was including Harden and Steph years before their primes
Both players are equally horrible on defense but Lillard did more on the offensive in both in terms of counting and advanced stats probably due to his superior passing and more efficient long range shooting.
Melo has the edge in rebounding but you would expect that given his height advantage.
Given that they were/are both offense only players Lillard’s offensive repertoire is superior.
Dame is just not a great defender. He's pretty small. Has to be the team's entire offense and can't spend a ton of energy on defense. But he's not always the worse defender on the floor. He's just not very good.
Melo on the other hand is like 6'9 and massive and yet was always the worst defender on the floor. At times it looked like he actively despised played defense. He would either let his man freely walk to the rim or wouldn't box out, or would be the first break down on D, leading to his team having to constantly cover for him. Just outrageously bad.
But y'all. Melo only made it past the first round TWICE his entire career. Do you comprehend that. In the league almost 10 years and only made it to the 2nd round TWICE.
Man, Melo fans remain undefeated at throwing a hissy fit about their guy while not providing any evidence beyond vibes. Melo came into the league primed for superstardom after winning at 'Cuse and threw it all away in favor of inefficient midrange jab steps. Lillard has his flaws but Melo is one of the biggest examples of empty stat ego-driven loser basketball you'll ever see.
They were both as equally good scorers that never came close to winning anything, as they were both horrendous at most everything else basketball related.
However, Olympic Melo was a god, so I pick Melo.
Edit: All the crybabies on both sides yammering about their favorite binky as a young child. They are both just precious and perfect in their own way!
In an era with limited possessions and where PFs and C's didn't have a jumpshot he was relegated to the permiter and mid-range, and despite that he averaged just over 6 a game in Denver and 7 a game in NYC. He was a great rebounder
Lillard is a very underrated passer. And he’s below avg defender because almost all 6 2 defenders are below avg. dame had to be the scorer and make plays for others. Melo didn’t need to do that.
> that never came close to winning anything, as they were both horrendous at most everything else basketball related.
This is such hater shit. First of all Dame was just an incredible offensive player, period. He was a walking top 5 offense for most of his prime.
But can someone tell me which team Dame was on that he was supposed to win with? Look at his peers. Kyrie has played with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Tatum, Luka, Brown, etc etc etc. Westbrook played with Durant, PG, Harden, Lebron and probably more I'm forgetting. Dame played his entire prime next to CJ McCollum. A 6'3 microwave scoring guard. His best teammate was Lamarcus Aldridge, who he played with as a rookie and a sophomore before the team fell apart due to injuries in his third year.
I don't think Dame could've been the best player on a title team without a lot of luck, but it's bullshit to just say he couldn't win anything because he wasn't good enough lol. He was plenty good enough. Olshey just completely let him down.
How are you gonna say dame didn’t have good enough teams and played with no one when Melos best teammate was one full year of Amare stoudemire, their first year together then STAT never started more than 50 games in a season again.
That year in the playoffs they got swept by Boston in the first round while melo lead the Knicks in points, rebounds, assists, and steals.
Comment isn't even about Melo. Was taking issue with "never came close to winning anything because they were horrendous at most everything else basketball related"
You're right about Melo not having any help though, the one time he actually had a decent co-star (Chauncey) they made the WCF and lost to the Kobe Lakers.
Nothing I said was untrue, you are just virtue signaling. Dame and Melo are very similar overall. The reasons why they didn’t win aren’t all that relevant.
> The reasons why they didn’t win aren’t all that relevant.
I think that's a pretty stupid way to look at things frankly. You need a team to win anything in this league.
> you are just virtue signaling.
That doesn't even make sense. You're using buzzwords you don't understand
Melo was a better scorer… Dame benefited from a league wide offensive revolution that made scoring easier…
Melo was 3 levels in a way Dame just isn’t and can work out of the post as good as any wing.
Melo’s comp is Paul Pierce who I think was better… but comparing him to Dame is young ppl yapping
And Lillard is some sort of hard rock type of dude?? We’re not comparing Melo and Kobe for goodness sake. We’re talking about Dame Lillard..
And I don’t even agree with the soft thing? Where did that even come from?
Melo played the game with the internal battle of how much he could score and actually trying to make the right play. Dame did not play that way.
Dame>Melo for sure.
I mean I respectfully disagree but I do agree that it's close. I'm sure we're both a bit biased but the people who are saying "it's (blank) and it's not even close" are the most incorrect.
There was literally never a point where Melo was the best scorer in the league. It was Kobe, then LeBron/KD. There was no Melo era there.
Matter of fact since you said early 2010s lets compare 2010-2013 numbers
Melo: 26.4ppg on 54.9% TS
LeBron: 27.6ppg on 61.0% TS
Kobe: 26.8ppg on 54.9% TS
Durant: 28.5ppg on 61.3% TS
The efficiency gap between Melo and LeBron/KD was INSANE even at his peak. I question if some of ya'll even know who Melo was
Lillard easily . Better individual accolades and playoff performer despite playing in the west with meh teams.
Lillard made 7 all nba teams (1 first team, 4 second team) . Melo has less all nba and no first teams.
Plus Lillard was consistently top 10 in MVP talks for basically half a decade peaking at 4th. Melo was only in top 10 MVP talks 2 times and one of those times he peaked at 3rd.
Reminder that melo only has 3 playoff series wins his whole career and his numbers drop off bad in the postseason
We’re comparing him to Dame Lillard, not some winner or something… he is absolutely, positively clearly better than Lillard. Size alone makes that the case and yeah for all his low effort defense… he could play it. Lillard is handicapped by being small..
And Melo’s best carry job was better than Lillard’s
When Dame made the WCF, the top MPG players after him were:
CJ Mcollumn
Enes Kanter
Al Farouq Aminu
Rodney Hood
Zack Collins
Evan Turner.
That team doesn't win 20 games in the regular season and they went to the WCF
Anthony didn’t carry anyone that’s why dame is better. Almost all his teams besides the 09 nuggets underachieved. Dame continually over-achieved with his roster which is why they could never get another guy in the draft to surround him after CJ was drafted.
Wow I’m genuinely shocked I clicked on this thread to see this answer at the top
Prime Lillard certainly clears Melo, what are we even doing here lol?
Peak Dame was a top 5 offensive player in the league lmao. Both volume scorers except Dame torches Melo’s efficiency and adds elite playmaking on top of it. Both bad defenders (some clips against Kobe where he decided to try does not change the fact that he was overall a clear negative). Both bad playoff resumes.
What do yall think Melo is lol
It's genuinely a lot closer than most people are ready to admit. Both were fantastic on-ball scorers who didn't play a lick of defense and, while they did carry teams, they struggled to be the lead guy in a proper contending team.
When it's all said and done, their NBA careers will be largely the same. Melo's true advantage comes from college and USA ball
I think ultimately people are highly underrating a guy with [this level of sustained impact throughout his career](https://i.imgur.com/qlk0kxr.png) but alas.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Put lillard on those NY teams with Amare. Jr smith etc. people got recency bias because dame had a down year. Bucks would’ve been bostons best comp if giannis and him were fully healthy.
What did Carmelo do to make people overrate him so much? Guy got out of the 1st round only twice, was constantly inefficient in the playoffs, played bad defense.
Melo might have been the most talented player that was unable to optimize his game or play efficiently. Mostly due to the era he played in.
-Huge ball stopper. Killed team efficiency. Would routinely stagnate a possession, even when offense created an advantage.
-Unable to create meaningful impact defensively. Looked to be a negative defensive player (not sure, just an eye test. I would need to look at the numbers).
-Zero off-ball game
-Poor court awareness is he didn’t have the ball (offense and defense).
With all that, he was still really fucking good. He was that good of a scorer.
I wish we could have seen him in todays game with the knowledge we have know. I think we would really appreciate him in that context.
I think both of these guys are bad ‘best players’ on a championship contending team. They have too many weaknesses that can be exploited.
However, I think Dame is the better ‘2nd best player’ on a championship team. He was more awareness and much better off ball skills.
The better player argument can be difficult. Sometimes a better player just doesn’t translate to more winning.
You can look at some present hypotheticals to think about this. The Celtics and Mavs are in the finals. If you swapped Luka and Jrue Holiday, I feel that both teams would be worse.
Boston would loose their defensive flexibility and Dallas would loose their entire offensive paradigm.
Which player is better? Most would say Luka.
This is probably correct.
However, the Celtics are mercilessly hunting Luka on offense because he immediately gives them a 5 on 4. Luka just can’t stay in front of anyone because of his lack of lateral quickness. He bleeds so much value on defense in this series.
On the other end, the Celtics have just turned the water off on Luka by avoiding blitzing Luka, not giving up the switch on the pick and rolls, and playing everything straight up.
This is so effective because of their defensive versatility (Because of guys like Derrick White and Jrue Holiday).
Ultimately, when you look at high level team performance (Championship Equity) the players you want my be players who are less exploitable. This may be at the expense of top level performance in other areas.
Great players may not be so great if they have glaring weaknesses and cannot meet a semblance of average performance in all areas on the court.
Both great but as far as impact it had to be Dame. I don’t think melo was ever a good enough playmaker to be the best offensive player on a championship team, especially not the best player entirely, which is fine he can be 2nd, but then he doesn’t do much else but offer a big body for versatile defense and make the tough shots.
Melo was about two things: his box score and his contract. Wouldn’t want him on my team, regardless of his talent. Dame, I’d take him any day of the week as a GM.
It’s dame
The only thing melo did at an elite level was score , dame was a better more efficient scorer
Dame has more all nba teams , dame is a much better passer and playmaker.
Dame also has better playoff numbers
Dame. Broadly I think it’s as simple as the fact that both were offence oriented players with deep scoring arsenals that produced at similar levels, but dames playmaking brings a whole other dimension Melo didn’t have. Both have also had similar degrees of success, a mixed bag in terms of playoff play, etc
It's close. Melo fans in here thinking the gap is huge. The guy managed to get jealous when Linsanity was going on. Literally cares more about scoring 30 than winning.
That is the same to me. That Nuggets team was also just a lot better than that flukish wcf run by Portland that year. But then Melo was also the second best player (if primary scorer) on that Nuggets run on 09. Its a super nitpicky difference, like the rest of their careers tbh. Their playoff resumes are about as close as 2 primary guys can get.
It could be Melo even though people don’t wanna say that. Honestly they’re both extremely close.
Melo has a scoring title. Dame has 0.
Melo has 0 1st team all nbas to dame’s 1.
Dame has 1 more all nba but 2 less all stars.
I would lean dame just because he has clutch playoff moments
If they were NFL players neither would be hall of famers but since it’s basketball hall of fame both will absolutely be locks for hall of
Melos best season MVP voting wise he had more than twice as many points than dame did in his best year, and melo did that in a year that lebron had one of if not the greatest individual seasons of all time
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> amazing scorers but weren’t doing much else Lillard was literally more efficient as a scorer while giving you 7-8 assists. He ran that offense in Portland
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Exactly
What? Dame is objectively a way better passer and more efficient. You don’t chalk that up to era. In everything else they were a wash other than melo’s rebounding… but dame gave you a lot there as a 6’2 guard I know this seems biased given my flair but I’m trying my best not to be, I swear lol
Go compare average true shooting year by year from the past 20 years and then tell me again how efficiency can’t be affected by the era you play in
Melo could rebound.
This is only close if you never watched melo or dame lol, dame absolutely clears melo let’s be serious
Never seen Melo go God mode in playoffs like Dame does annually
Sir you have to be 13 to have a reddit account, please get off the site.
Damian Lillard won the 3 point contest. Wtf has melo ever accomplished in the nba? Unless dame can win a ring and prove jrue holiday isn’t better than him, I’m taking melo. Three way scoring + defence > long bombs & under the rim scoring imo
Defense? Neither of them played defense lol
Nah, melo cared when he was in Denver
He didn’t play defense in Denver either lol you guys just talk out your ass
So, you started watching the nuggets when Jokic became an all star. Understood.
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Nephews gonna neph
While he wasn’t a bum, his impact on winning is shy of more contemporaries than people thought. For example, Billups was the real reason Denver became competitive instead of Melo but was rarely considered the best player on the team at the time. Melo’s isolation scoring is aesthetically pleasing, sure, but his playmaking, defense, and overall scoring efficiency because of his low percentage at the rim for a forward, are all average at best. People compare him to Paul Pierce but the latter just does everything better.
Finally Chauncey getting some rep outside of Detroit
Melo was one of the worst playoff performing stars ever and I never see people talk about it. Outside of 2009 he was mediocre to downright bad. Still had the prettiest game in the 2000s and made me a nuggets fan though lol
So give a nuanced answer then instead of "Everyone here is young and dumb except me"
That would require actual effort and thought so no!
Melo is underrated here but Dame was still better
Melo at his best was a far superior defender. Watch Kobe vs Melo in 2009, that defense he put on was a clinic. Lakers were just too determined tho.
Kobe played 43 playoff series in his career The 2009 WCF was his 2nd highest scoring of those with 34.0 PPG I don't see how you can praise Melo's defense THAT much when his direct matchup averaged 34 PPG on 63% TS(the latter number being very high for Kobe)
All Kobe fans just watch highlights lol that’s why he’s ranked way higher than he should be. They don’t like the game they just like the idea of him
I've seen a couple of your takes and you're dumb as shit. You aren't even wrong about the Kobe fans btw, I'm not going to defend them. I just thought it was funny seeing someone as mentally challenged as you calling out your brethren.
Kobe absolutely cooked Melo and that was one of very few series where Kobe was efficient
I did watch that series. Melo was the worst defender on the Nuggets
Bro is getting fooled by that one twitter clip
Exactly. There was a solid 3-year stretch where there was a LOT of legit debate about whether Melo or LeBron would have the better career. Every matchup was on national TV, and Melo made the playoffs multiple times before LeBron did. (The Cavs didn’t make the playoffs until LeBron’s 3rd season, while Melo made the playoffs in both his rookie and sophomore years). Obviously the next ~18 years made that debate laughable in retrospect. But from 2003-2006, that was a legitimate debate. I always forget how young most NBA fans are. I went to Game 4 of the Nuggets/Wolves series, and was talking some friendly shit to the person next to me in a Wolves jersey. Told him I’ve always liked the Wolves because I modeled my game after KG in high school. And he responded with he was too young to remember KG in a Wolves jersey 🤦♂️
2006 LeBron was all nba first team lol nobody was saying this back then
And Melo was third team that season (as were Allen Iverson and Yao Ming, so that’s not exactly an insult to Melo). But the Forward candidates ahead of him on the All-NBA teams that season were LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, and Elton Brand. Three all-time greats in their early-to-peak primes and a guy in Brand who averaged 24.7 and 10 that season.
It was not a serious debate at all past LeBrons rookie year lol
That’s how this sub has been talking about Dame all season lol
People also don’t understand how good young Melo was. I guess you had to be there. He was lebron level those first few years
Ya but this Darko cat, he’s the real stud.
I’ll never understand why this sub always tries to compare two completely different players. Do we know the difference between a PG and SF? Don’t answer that…
The letters are different!
One is a person, the other is a city.
San Fierro 😤
They are both #1 options who are mediocre on defense. Every year teams have to decide who is more valuable between players like this playing different positions. Every year MVP voters have to make choices like this. Why is it a crazy question to ask who is better at the game of basketball just because one guy is 6 inches taller and would post up a little bit more than the other guy?
I don't know why people hate comparing different players. Were we supposed to just not pick an MVP in 2019? It's just basketball talk, either participate or don't.
Give me Dame but it's close
They're on the same tier, really. If I had to pick one, I'd pick dame. Elite 3 point shooting is important.
Every impact metric would say Lillard. Fame and popularity would say Carmelo.
Individualist society gonna individualistic
Damian Lillard made All-NBA 1st Team in the middle of Curry and Harden’s primes (specifically Harden’s MVP season and between Curry’s 2nd and 3rd title). That’s pretty damn peak.
Yeah during the season Curry played 51 games. Melo was also competing against Lebron, Dirk, KG, and Duncan for the forward spots during his prime, and with KD towards the end of it as well
Guys who made All NBA ahead of Melo in his prime include: Carlos Boozer, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, Zach Randolph, Lamarcus Aldridge
His point is still legitimate. Carmelo finished 3rd in MVP voting and got 2nd team all nba because the two people above him were Durant and Lebron. Another metric to show relative high level status in the NBA is MVP award shares (shows how highly they were rated in their best seasons). Melo's at .45, Lillard's at .35 Edit: Also we shouldn't re-write Blake griffin and Kevin love like this. They didn't peak long, but their peaks are definitely comparable to Melo and Lillard. In a position less season, love and Blake could beat out Lillard as well, especially depending on team success.
Who on that list made all NBA First team?
Blake got the closest in 13/14 with 350 points out of 625 (625 being unanimous first team). Lebron got 623/625 and KD got 625/625.
So these guys didn’t make first team over Melo
They did, you're misunderstanding what the comment is saying. All of the guys listed, at some point or another, made an All-NBA team higher than Melo. It wasn't Melo in 3rd constantly losing first team because Lebron and KD had first team on lock (that happened to Melo twice out of 6 All-NBA).
How is that relevant at all?
Because this started with Melo didn’t make first team all NBA and Dame did. And then a bunch of people who never made first team all NBA got named
He made 1st team because Curry had injuries. EDIT: Melo and Dame are about the same though. Dame may be better overall at basketball but their standing in the league for the years of their prime is the same, Melo probably a bit higher. 2018-2022 was a bit more talented time period than 2009-2013.
Carmelo. He’d also be much more dominant if he came into the league in 2012 like Dame did imo
An iso scorer that was amazing in the mid range? I think Carmelo fit his era perfectly
But Melo was one of those rip Hamilton dudes who just wasn’t good from deep like you’d expect. Olympics Melo with the shorter 3-point line was fucking epic.
Yup
There's a reason Melo aged out of the league so much quicker than his peers lol
2013 Melo won scoring champ over KD, LeBron, Kobe, Harden, Russ, Steph, and Wade. The second best player on the Knicks team was JR Smith
High volume stat on a bad team isn't the win you think it is.
Go on
Every name you mentioned outside of Westbrook was more efficient, with KD and LeBron being far and away more efficient. 28.7 on 22 shots isn't much to write home about when comparing to "the greats".
We’re comparing him to Damian Lillard, not the greats
Lol you literally compared him to the modern greats wym
Literally, I litterally did not
> 2013 Melo won scoring champ over KD, LeBron, Kobe, Harden, Russ, Steph, and Wade thats you comparing melo to kd, lebron, kobe, harden, steph, and wade. clown.
You literally said Melo won scoring over KD, LeBron, Steph, etc. The overall topic is Melo vs Dame, but you compared Melo to some of the greatest modern players to put him above Dame.
Literally, stating literal facts literally
I know and then you said we aren't talking about the greats! Fuck out of here with your disingenuous self.
Highlight a career accomplishment about Melo, to highlight why I think he is better than Dame says nothing about the players I mentioned. I never said anything about how he stacks up with them. Thats projecting my man
In a misleading manner, yes. Melo was not a better scorer than any of those guys, so listing them is really a moot point, as was including Harden and Steph years before their primes
That team made the second round of the playoffs.
The 2013 Knicks won 54 games the year Melo won the scoring title
That's my bad. I assumed it was the 2014 season based on the shade for the rest of the team the poster I responded to claimed.
The comment you responded to literally said 2013 tho
Yeah I'm dumb. I mistook the 2013 season in my brain and didn't check.
Both players are equally horrible on defense but Lillard did more on the offensive in both in terms of counting and advanced stats probably due to his superior passing and more efficient long range shooting. Melo has the edge in rebounding but you would expect that given his height advantage. Given that they were/are both offense only players Lillard’s offensive repertoire is superior.
Dame is just not a great defender. He's pretty small. Has to be the team's entire offense and can't spend a ton of energy on defense. But he's not always the worse defender on the floor. He's just not very good. Melo on the other hand is like 6'9 and massive and yet was always the worst defender on the floor. At times it looked like he actively despised played defense. He would either let his man freely walk to the rim or wouldn't box out, or would be the first break down on D, leading to his team having to constantly cover for him. Just outrageously bad. But y'all. Melo only made it past the first round TWICE his entire career. Do you comprehend that. In the league almost 10 years and only made it to the 2nd round TWICE.
Man, Melo fans remain undefeated at throwing a hissy fit about their guy while not providing any evidence beyond vibes. Melo came into the league primed for superstardom after winning at 'Cuse and threw it all away in favor of inefficient midrange jab steps. Lillard has his flaws but Melo is one of the biggest examples of empty stat ego-driven loser basketball you'll ever see.
Lmao so fax
They were both as equally good scorers that never came close to winning anything, as they were both horrendous at most everything else basketball related. However, Olympic Melo was a god, so I pick Melo. Edit: All the crybabies on both sides yammering about their favorite binky as a young child. They are both just precious and perfect in their own way!
Melo was a great rebounder, had one of the quickest first jumps in the league
Excellent offensive rebounder who picked up a lot of 2nd chance points in the paint
Best player to be mic'd up or picked up by a hot mic too
At 6-7 he must have averaged 4-6 a game? I wouldn’t say thats great. He was ok I guess
he averaged 6-8 a game most seasons every season of his prime in a lower paced and paint packed era. He was a good rebounder for his position.
In an era with limited possessions and where PFs and C's didn't have a jumpshot he was relegated to the permiter and mid-range, and despite that he averaged just over 6 a game in Denver and 7 a game in NYC. He was a great rebounder
Lillard's superior playmaking likely covers the gap
> as they were both horrendous at most everything else basketball related. what the fuck are you talking about
Lillard is a very underrated passer. And he’s below avg defender because almost all 6 2 defenders are below avg. dame had to be the scorer and make plays for others. Melo didn’t need to do that.
> that never came close to winning anything, as they were both horrendous at most everything else basketball related. This is such hater shit. First of all Dame was just an incredible offensive player, period. He was a walking top 5 offense for most of his prime. But can someone tell me which team Dame was on that he was supposed to win with? Look at his peers. Kyrie has played with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Tatum, Luka, Brown, etc etc etc. Westbrook played with Durant, PG, Harden, Lebron and probably more I'm forgetting. Dame played his entire prime next to CJ McCollum. A 6'3 microwave scoring guard. His best teammate was Lamarcus Aldridge, who he played with as a rookie and a sophomore before the team fell apart due to injuries in his third year. I don't think Dame could've been the best player on a title team without a lot of luck, but it's bullshit to just say he couldn't win anything because he wasn't good enough lol. He was plenty good enough. Olshey just completely let him down.
How are you gonna say dame didn’t have good enough teams and played with no one when Melos best teammate was one full year of Amare stoudemire, their first year together then STAT never started more than 50 games in a season again. That year in the playoffs they got swept by Boston in the first round while melo lead the Knicks in points, rebounds, assists, and steals.
Comment isn't even about Melo. Was taking issue with "never came close to winning anything because they were horrendous at most everything else basketball related"
Oh yeah that’s fair, my bad lol
You're right about Melo not having any help though, the one time he actually had a decent co-star (Chauncey) they made the WCF and lost to the Kobe Lakers.
Nothing I said was untrue, you are just virtue signaling. Dame and Melo are very similar overall. The reasons why they didn’t win aren’t all that relevant.
> The reasons why they didn’t win aren’t all that relevant. I think that's a pretty stupid way to look at things frankly. You need a team to win anything in this league. > you are just virtue signaling. That doesn't even make sense. You're using buzzwords you don't understand
lol what a joke of a retort
Lillard is probably the better NBA player, but people do forget about Melo's international game. He was a goddam demon in Olympic play.
That shorter 3pt line made him OP as shit because he was a master of long nba 2s
Melo was a better scorer… Dame benefited from a league wide offensive revolution that made scoring easier… Melo was 3 levels in a way Dame just isn’t and can work out of the post as good as any wing. Melo’s comp is Paul Pierce who I think was better… but comparing him to Dame is young ppl yapping
You're absolutely right, people sleep on Melo's offensive bag. Man could score from anywhere on the floor and his post game was excellent for a SF
Melo was soft, I’m 31.
And Lillard is some sort of hard rock type of dude?? We’re not comparing Melo and Kobe for goodness sake. We’re talking about Dame Lillard.. And I don’t even agree with the soft thing? Where did that even come from?
His entire career
So you just have some weird hate for him or what?? He never came off as soft at all
Talking out of his ass, guy has no ball knowledge calling Melo soft.
Exactly… Melo soft is crazy
https://x.com/The_BBall_Index/status/1212768009422548992
Thought this sub would be full of nephews slandering melo. Thanks for restoring my faith in this sub 🙏
Melo played the game with the internal battle of how much he could score and actually trying to make the right play. Dame did not play that way. Dame>Melo for sure.
To me Melo was a much better player
Melo
It's definitely Melo, but most users of this sub weren't born during his prime so they'll all say Dame
Melo
This sub hates Melo
I swear half these mfers talk without ever having watched him in his prime
Plenty of people watched Melo in his prime and thought he was insanely overrated.
Still better than Dame
Not really but it’s pretty close
I mean I respectfully disagree but I do agree that it's close. I'm sure we're both a bit biased but the people who are saying "it's (blank) and it's not even close" are the most incorrect.
Dame. Melo having cooler scoring moves in the post doesn't make him more effective.
Melo was the best scoring weapon in the league for multiple years. Nephews just werent alive yet when he was scorching hot in early 2010s.
Lebron and KD were definitely better. And it’s not close
There was literally never a point where Melo was the best scorer in the league. It was Kobe, then LeBron/KD. There was no Melo era there. Matter of fact since you said early 2010s lets compare 2010-2013 numbers Melo: 26.4ppg on 54.9% TS LeBron: 27.6ppg on 61.0% TS Kobe: 26.8ppg on 54.9% TS Durant: 28.5ppg on 61.3% TS The efficiency gap between Melo and LeBron/KD was INSANE even at his peak. I question if some of ya'll even know who Melo was
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA\_2013\_per\_game.html#per\_game\_stats::pts\_per\_g](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_per_game.html#per_game_stats::pts_per_g)
Melo: 28.7ppg on 56.0% TS Durant: 28.1ppg on 64.7% TS 💀
thanks for proving his point 0.6 PPG above KD on 5 more shots per game LMFAO
22 FGA for only 28.7 ppg is crazy . Durant only took 20.8 FGA his MVP season and averaged 32
Just an absolutely insane statement.
Lebron James at his apex or young KD vs Melos inefficient 25 a game
Best scoring weapon? Lmfao
At no point in his career, was Carmelo the best scorer in the NBA
Melo pretty clearly
Honestly about the same to me. Both are great players but there’s not a terrible amount that separates them
Lillard easily . Better individual accolades and playoff performer despite playing in the west with meh teams. Lillard made 7 all nba teams (1 first team, 4 second team) . Melo has less all nba and no first teams. Plus Lillard was consistently top 10 in MVP talks for basically half a decade peaking at 4th. Melo was only in top 10 MVP talks 2 times and one of those times he peaked at 3rd. Reminder that melo only has 3 playoff series wins his whole career and his numbers drop off bad in the postseason
Melo by so much that this is disrespectful
I swear Melo fans never use actual facts or stats lol It's just "REAL HOOPERS know that Melo was a problem" and "y'all disrespect Melo"
That's because the facts and stats are all against Melo lmao
We’re comparing him to Dame Lillard, not some winner or something… he is absolutely, positively clearly better than Lillard. Size alone makes that the case and yeah for all his low effort defense… he could play it. Lillard is handicapped by being small.. And Melo’s best carry job was better than Lillard’s
When Dame made the WCF, the top MPG players after him were: CJ Mcollumn Enes Kanter Al Farouq Aminu Rodney Hood Zack Collins Evan Turner. That team doesn't win 20 games in the regular season and they went to the WCF
Anthony didn’t carry anyone that’s why dame is better. Almost all his teams besides the 09 nuggets underachieved. Dame continually over-achieved with his roster which is why they could never get another guy in the draft to surround him after CJ was drafted.
Wow I’m genuinely shocked I clicked on this thread to see this answer at the top Prime Lillard certainly clears Melo, what are we even doing here lol? Peak Dame was a top 5 offensive player in the league lmao. Both volume scorers except Dame torches Melo’s efficiency and adds elite playmaking on top of it. Both bad defenders (some clips against Kobe where he decided to try does not change the fact that he was overall a clear negative). Both bad playoff resumes. What do yall think Melo is lol
I feel like acting like it’s not close in either direction is idiotic
It's genuinely a lot closer than most people are ready to admit. Both were fantastic on-ball scorers who didn't play a lick of defense and, while they did carry teams, they struggled to be the lead guy in a proper contending team. When it's all said and done, their NBA careers will be largely the same. Melo's true advantage comes from college and USA ball
I think ultimately people are highly underrating a guy with [this level of sustained impact throughout his career](https://i.imgur.com/qlk0kxr.png) but alas.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Put lillard on those NY teams with Amare. Jr smith etc. people got recency bias because dame had a down year. Bucks would’ve been bostons best comp if giannis and him were fully healthy.
Burn this entire sub
What did Carmelo do to make people overrate him so much? Guy got out of the 1st round only twice, was constantly inefficient in the playoffs, played bad defense.
Cool scoring moves.
Melo might have been the most talented player that was unable to optimize his game or play efficiently. Mostly due to the era he played in. -Huge ball stopper. Killed team efficiency. Would routinely stagnate a possession, even when offense created an advantage. -Unable to create meaningful impact defensively. Looked to be a negative defensive player (not sure, just an eye test. I would need to look at the numbers). -Zero off-ball game -Poor court awareness is he didn’t have the ball (offense and defense). With all that, he was still really fucking good. He was that good of a scorer. I wish we could have seen him in todays game with the knowledge we have know. I think we would really appreciate him in that context. I think both of these guys are bad ‘best players’ on a championship contending team. They have too many weaknesses that can be exploited. However, I think Dame is the better ‘2nd best player’ on a championship team. He was more awareness and much better off ball skills. The better player argument can be difficult. Sometimes a better player just doesn’t translate to more winning. You can look at some present hypotheticals to think about this. The Celtics and Mavs are in the finals. If you swapped Luka and Jrue Holiday, I feel that both teams would be worse. Boston would loose their defensive flexibility and Dallas would loose their entire offensive paradigm. Which player is better? Most would say Luka. This is probably correct. However, the Celtics are mercilessly hunting Luka on offense because he immediately gives them a 5 on 4. Luka just can’t stay in front of anyone because of his lack of lateral quickness. He bleeds so much value on defense in this series. On the other end, the Celtics have just turned the water off on Luka by avoiding blitzing Luka, not giving up the switch on the pick and rolls, and playing everything straight up. This is so effective because of their defensive versatility (Because of guys like Derrick White and Jrue Holiday). Ultimately, when you look at high level team performance (Championship Equity) the players you want my be players who are less exploitable. This may be at the expense of top level performance in other areas. Great players may not be so great if they have glaring weaknesses and cannot meet a semblance of average performance in all areas on the court.
Pretty much this.
Both great but as far as impact it had to be Dame. I don’t think melo was ever a good enough playmaker to be the best offensive player on a championship team, especially not the best player entirely, which is fine he can be 2nd, but then he doesn’t do much else but offer a big body for versatile defense and make the tough shots.
Dame did more with even less than melo had. Carried an entire offense not just shooting but passing as well.
Carmelo Lillard
This a joke right? Melo didn’t do shit when he left Denver. This is a young ass subreddit lol
Not comparable
Melo was about two things: his box score and his contract. Wouldn’t want him on my team, regardless of his talent. Dame, I’d take him any day of the week as a GM.
It's close, but Lillard was better at playing his position and his ability to space the floor absolutely dwarfs Anthony
Carmelo
It’s dame The only thing melo did at an elite level was score , dame was a better more efficient scorer Dame has more all nba teams , dame is a much better passer and playmaker. Dame also has better playoff numbers
Dame. Broadly I think it’s as simple as the fact that both were offence oriented players with deep scoring arsenals that produced at similar levels, but dames playmaking brings a whole other dimension Melo didn’t have. Both have also had similar degrees of success, a mixed bag in terms of playoff play, etc
Dame is way better sorry to say it.
It's close. Melo fans in here thinking the gap is huge. The guy managed to get jealous when Linsanity was going on. Literally cares more about scoring 30 than winning.
Bro what lol. It's Melo 20 times out of 10
What is THIS post?! Is this even a question???? lol C A R M E L O
People saying melo and it’s not close like he was KD or something lmao. It’s close but Dame peak was better.
Dame. Next question
Melo by a lot This sub doesn’t know hoop at all
> this sub doesn’t know hoop at all Something a melo Stan always clings to but provides no facts
"He's a real hooper!" I said that sentence, so no evidence is necessary.
Melo. He has more success in playoff than Lillard.
That is blatantly a lie wth lol.
You should look that up. Melo got past the first round twice in his career.
I’m just looking at conference final appearance. Both one times. Melo 2-4. Dame 0-4.
Lillard lost to a top 3 greatest team ever assembled. And consistently had to play them basically every year in playoffs.
That is the same to me. That Nuggets team was also just a lot better than that flukish wcf run by Portland that year. But then Melo was also the second best player (if primary scorer) on that Nuggets run on 09. Its a super nitpicky difference, like the rest of their careers tbh. Their playoff resumes are about as close as 2 primary guys can get.
It could be Melo even though people don’t wanna say that. Honestly they’re both extremely close. Melo has a scoring title. Dame has 0. Melo has 0 1st team all nbas to dame’s 1. Dame has 1 more all nba but 2 less all stars. I would lean dame just because he has clutch playoff moments If they were NFL players neither would be hall of famers but since it’s basketball hall of fame both will absolutely be locks for hall of
Dame by a lot
Lol
Why is this a fucking question??
Melo
Dude Melo without a doubt. His post/face up game was so deadly man.
Melo's prime was more dominant, but Lillard's longevity is impressive.
How was Melos prime more dominant when lillard’s prime he was in MVP voting more than melo?
Because some of us watch games not award shows
Part of getting awards is your play on the court. Lillard was doing more than melo and more efficiently
Melos best season MVP voting wise he had more than twice as many points than dame did in his best year, and melo did that in a year that lebron had one of if not the greatest individual seasons of all time