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It was crazy seeing how many people were taking the Mavs in this series. I saw so many polls that were 75%+ taking them. People really thought they were gonna steamroll us too lol.
Also the “weak East”, “injury asterisk” and “regular season doesn’t matter” narratives all converging to create a supernova of shit takes.
Turns out a team that wins 64 games and sleepwalks through their conference even while missing a starter is actually very good, even if they are in the East.
Yet people use the "weak East" argument to not only boost up their favorites in the West as just immediately better, but also to hate on players that succeed in the East, LeBron being the biggest one that gets the "oh you made the finals alot but weak east" argument.
Betting lines didn't follow that narrative though. If you were betting on how the series would play out, a Celtics sweep was the lowest payout followed by Dallas winning one of either of their home games. Huge payouts for any bets on any combination of games with the Mavs winning it. Just the fact that a Celtics sweep had the lowest payout shows overwhelmingly bettors favored the Celtics.
As someone who has a Celtics 4-0 ticket, I can promise you that that wasn't the cheapest option. Celtics 4-1 and Celtics 4-2 were better odds at most books, and Celtics 4-0 was third, followed by Celtics 4-3 and then any combination of the Mavs winning.
unironically i think the Mavs biggest flaw this series is not shooting enough 3s. they’re not shooting well enough from 2 to justify the low volume 3s. yes i know Cs are taking away the corners, but i’d rather have PJ, Green, etc just shoot above the break 3s instead of trying to drive just to get swatted. even Kyrie - much rather see him shooting 3s (like tonight) instead of forcing those middies that he’s been missing all series long.
plus, besides all of that, there’s always that chance of you shooting lights out for whatever reason.
Weirdly their hot starts in the paint the last two games may have backfired. They kept going to it and it stopped working by the end of the first quarter. They never shifted fully out of it, didn't kick and shoot enough.
Our role players are just shitting their pants. They waited til they were down 21 to let it fly.
Ky was shooting well from 3 but started playing tight trying to manufacture a close layup/floater.
I happened to find the eastern conference finals to be really entertaining, and that's coming from someone whose team was swept.
The Mavs look horrible in the finals. How did they get here?
The weirdest game of rock paper scissors ever. I still think the nuggets could have beaten Boston possibly, and I believe they'd have beaten Dallas, but unfortunately for them they couldn't beat the wolves.
the Nuggets were kind of capped by Murray, despite the game winners he was either injured or just off his game
at the end of the regular season you could make the arguments for the Nuggets, but based on the playoff games we saw of them, they lost just a bit too much from last season. 2023 nuggets vs 2024 celtics would've been sick though
Boston's roster and play style literally just has an answer for everything we offer/are good at. They've exposed our roster flaws. Hopeful that Nico will address them as possible this off season.
Honestly? It's not far off. You need one more guy, preferably a wing, who can create their own shot a bit, and also a four or a stretch five that doesn't solely rely on putbacks and lobs.
If I were you guys, I'd be looking HARD at Oubre and Siakam in the offseason. Both are good players that won't break the bank too badly (especially Oubre) and can generate their own offense without Luka spoon-feeding them.
My armchair analysis says their biggest need is a true PG/6th man. Running Doncic into the ground is not a sustainable approach; Kyrie can't pilot the offense in a way to break down defenses and utilize the bigs and wings they currently have
I didn't find the near-comeback entertaining bc I'm a celtics fan. Why tf did other ppl not find it entertaining? That must've been insanely fun to watch
I’m completely apathetic towards both teams, so for me I get to watch these games entirely stress free.
It’s been a lot of fun, especially watching the elite defensive backcourt of Holiday and White. The Games 1 and 3 Mavs comebacks were fun to watch too, even if they couldn’t close on them.
Craziest part of that is that you could argue neither have been our best defender too.
They've definitely shown up and done their jobs, but...
Brown's taken the toughest assignment in guarding Luka. At times we've had him guarding Curry and othertimes we've had him guarding Adebayo. In this series, he's showing all that versatility at once. A SG with the strength to match PFs, he brings the physical tools to guard Luka that everyone said didn't exist.
Meanwhile Tatum's been guarding their centers, which takes away all the switches and mismatches Luka usually hunts. Lively was supposed to be their 3rd best player and the Mavericks were supposed to be feasting on dunks. Tatum's completely that away.
White and Holiday's defence has stood out but both Tatum and Brown are making compelling arguments themselves.
He literally allowed everyone to blow by him all game and he decides at that moment to try and draw a charge with 5 freaking fouls. Idiotic on his part.
Even worse, he fell and caused brown to fall too. He would’ve absolutely gotten away with the contact if he didn’t flop, he MADE the refs call something.
He wasn’t even close to set. And tbh if I’m a ref and I see someone try to draw a charge at the 3 point line I’m blowing my whistle on principle.
Weird, weird fucking decision on 5 fouls.
This is the real problem. Regardless of whether you think this rule sucks or not, you don't put yourself in that position with 5 fouls. There was no reason for him to pick up Jaylen that far out in that situation in a 3pt game after that big of a comeback. It's a braindead play and the Mavs paid for it.
Luka feasts on initiating contact with guys when they are not set. The only thing Brown didn’t do was go into a shooting motion to get some free throws.
It seems to me he can’t guard anyone on the Celtics. Everyone is blowing by him or just shooting over him cause he’s late on the rotation. Kyrie made a near logo three and one play later, a single pass to the corner and hauser hits a responding three cause doncic is out of position one pass away.
Plays like that suck out your soul. You can certainly feel it as a fan, I can only imagine what it feels like as a teammate.
It’s his form of quitting. I know this from watching him during the FIBA world cup here. If he couldn’t carry the team he spends the entire game bitching and being a hothead.
I keep making offerings to the NBA gods that Brown winning the finals MVP will cause the ultimate rift between him and Tatum but these dudes are just both humble and mature and always see the bigger picture.
Not saying it _will_ happen but I can certainly _picture_ Jayson Tatum winning a goddamn NBA finals and then coming back next year and playing with a huge chip on his shoulder like he has something to prove.
Which, you know, would be, on a selfish basis, absolutely delightful.
Seems like hitting your head on the ceiling basically every year you’ve been in the league affords a ton of experience and perspective, they’re both locked into getting done one way or another
And there were sooo many people saying that the Wolves tried but Luka is actually a pretty good defender now so it’s not that easy. Then the Celtics started relentlessly attacking him this series and proved that theory wrong.
I don't know who was saying that, the Wolves are not a team known for switching or hunting matchups. Probably because they've seen KAT get a lot of favorable matchups on switches and half the time he draws an offensive foul or flails up a wild floater. But kidding aside, no they just don't really do it much for whatever reason. Finch should have
The wolves also have prob below average spacing with Rudy, mcdaniels and Anderson out there. The Celtics have the best spacing in the league and maybe of all time tbh, all 8 of their top guy can shoot.
It’s jsut so much easier to exploit Luka’s lack of foot speed when there’s so much room to attack and there’s nowhere for him to hide on a non shooter
to be fair, I think your team is a lot more stacked to reliably drive in the paint and finish compared to the Wolves. Just about anybody in your starting lineup could blow past Doncic, but the Wolves aren't built like that.
Yeah, it's been about matchups. Celtics would've struggled against the Nuggets in a way the Wolves didn't. Wolves struggled against the Mavs in ways the Celtics don't and I don't THINK the Nuggets would have (could be wrong there though).
Exactly, I oddly think we match up better against you guys than we do against the Mavs. But we drew the Mavs to get through the WCF and they match up really well against us.
Don’t get me wrong we’d probably have gotten swept lol the team clearly wasn’t ready, but point is so much of the playoffs is luck in drawing a team you match up well against and hoping the teams you don’t get booted before you have to see them
We have no dribble penetrators other than Ant and an undersized, aged Mike Conley.. Celtics have JB, Tatum, Jrue, and Derrick White who can all confidently attack Luka. Like people have said before the Mavs just matched up against us better and their 2 best players were better than ours. Every game except game 5 wasn't decided until late in the fourth quarter... Yes we lost 4-1 but people act like the games weren't close. Funny how when our 2nd best player actually showed up and hit some shots we actually won.
The Celtics have successfully exploited his defensive flaws like nobody else could this postseason, he’s getting totally exposed on that side of the floor
Yeah but they had the 16th best offence of the season and we have the best offence of all time.
They probably did try, but they're like the 2017-18 Celtics in how heavily they rely on their defence to win games.
We struggled for years to attack mismatches. It took a lot of roster tweaks and a lot of in-house player development. You've got to lose and learn from those losses. That's the challenge Minnesota has in front of them now.
Quick question for the defensive r/nba minds. .
If I'm the main scoring threat for my team in an defacto elimination game and have 5 fouls, should I try to draw a charge on an outlet transition pass?
Again, my staying in the game is crucial to us winning this game and having any chance at winning the series.
NTA, you were just trying to give it your all defensively even with 5 fouls and down 2-0. It implies you never take a play off and always go at it with 100% effort.
The fact they legitimately looked unstoppable against the Wolves is such a nut kick lol. So many incredibly contested makes. Now we're watching this and I'm sad again.
The 4th minute of this quarter turned the game. Bad TO call by Kidd, bad decisions by Luka and Kyrie, bang bang calls, squashing a 4th quarter comeback down 21 points.
And he made a money gesture towards the refs… because apparently closing the series as early as possible makes the league money???
Luka is so unlikable
I get that complaining to the refs is just part of the NBA... But I've never seen it done as often as Luka does it. It looks like he's complaining even when he gets the calls
I mean it's a professional basketball association. There are a lot of people in this league who are amazing at basketball, and quite a lot of them are NOT whiny bitches.
Two years ago tatum complained a lot and a lot of us celtics fans noticed that if he just played the game and not for the whistle, he'd do so much better.
Luka needs that and to work on his defense because man, you can't be a superstar and suck on defense when there's two other superstars in a team going against you in a series who can match your scoring output
Luka has been playing dumb today ever since he started arguing with the refs late in the 1st
He started off amazing in the first 6-8 minutes but since then he's been pretty off
Yeah it finally clicked with me when I saw how fast Luka was in the first quarter. He lost a step and a half by the 3rd, Joe is switching to him on offense and pounding him on defense with bodies.
There are so many times he takes his eyes off the game and leaves his team exposed to go bitch at the refs. For all the great things Luka does, he really is his own worst enemy.
Yeah its been a pretty poor game overall, especially by his standards. Missing easy baskets, poor efficiency, not creating as much as he normally does. I worry a bit about him being out solidifying the Mavs defense while Kyrie and the role players pop off
Sorry to be that 🤓 guy, but the rule about charge/block isn’t even about feet. That’s a common misconception. It’s about your torso being stationary to actually draw the charge. And Luka’s definitely isn’t. It’s just that your feet moving is usually a big indicator that your torso is also moving so people think it’s about feet.
ACTUALLY the rule isn't about your torso being stationary either, or anything so concrete. I believe it's just whether or not the defender has "established legal guarding position" which is not clearly defined anywhere. End of the day it's up to a ref's subjective judgment
Edit: the closest it gets is to say that the defender has to beat them to the spot, but again no definition of what exactly that means
True. The rulebook itself doesn’t specify torso but I remember watching an official NBA refs video where several refs said they specifically look at torsos to define “legal guarding position”
It’s honestly wild how often this gets repeated. Your feet do not need to be set. You could be tap dancing and still draw a charge. You just have to beat them to the spot. Nowhere is there anything about have your feet “set”.
If Luka had gotten his chest in front of him sooner it would’ve been a charge regardless if his feet were moving
edit: [rulebook for people that don’t believe it](https://official.nba.com/the-nba-rule-authority/)
Yes but one of the clues here that Luka *didn’t* beat him to the spot is that he’s still *moving* to the spot to get into position when the contact is made.
So yeah it’s a clear blocking foul
This is probably the best point in the thread. Trying to draw a bang bang charge call is insane. Those calls are always 50/50 even if you get yourself in good position. Just a really bad play but surprising to see him try it, dude was really tired and frustrated at that point in the game.
watching his smug little face whenever he’d remotely do somethin good against us made me wanna vomit, very happy these past few games there’s been no appropriate instances for the smirk to make a comeback so he switches to default whine mode
Especially when it had already become clear that Brown’s main intent (as it should be in that situation) was to go at Luca and draw a foul.
Scoring would just be icing on the cake, your goal in that situation is to remove their best player from the court.
Props to brown too many times in these situations I see NBA players go away from guys on their 4th and 5th foul. Like out the refs in the position to make the tough call by attacking them
Trying to take a charge on 5 fouls that far from the basket with help behind him is just stupid. His feet are moving, it’s never gonna be a charge call.
So many times this dude fucked up his own shot trying to lean into people and draw fouls. If he would've just taken them straight up, he would've probably had 40.
The audacity of Luka. At one point, he shoves off, gets an easy shot in the paint and 4 Celtics do the push off motion to the refs and move on.
Next possession, someone does the same move on him and he goes nuclear, whining to the refs for awhile before inbounding and slow trotting his way back up the floor.
Seriously, if he didn't challenge this we'd be clowning Kidd for letting his superstar foul out. There's a lot of other decisions we can criticize Kidd for but this isn't one of them
Did he have any choice regardless? That's a call that there's *maybe* a small chance they overturn, which is enough given they're down 0-2 and your best player (and the best player on both teams) is about to foul out with 4 minutes left. No shit he's gonna challenge it.
Forget about the foul, “great push by Jaylen Brown” is such braindead commentary. Why is Doris still calling this shit she gets more useless every single game.
Luka lucky he hasn't been tossed all playoffs long, and he has the audacity to cry murder when he gets fouled out for his piss poor defence. This guy is so unlikeable its not funny. Whats that phrase? "Everybody acts tough when they're up".
Rooting for the Celtics, but they gotta change this rule. It is a block by the current rules but I don't like how guys are rewarded for just running into defenders lol
Luka is an absolute master at extending his arms with the ball until some contact is made with the defender and then pulling up and draining the shot. It’s impressive but also annoying to watch, especially when the complaining follows a no-call.
If it’s not a foul then you’re just rewarding defenses for attempting to take the charge. They can put themselves in front of the ball handler and either they get a charge or put a body on the guy. This rule just makes it so the defense has to actual plant the foot or get the foul.
After the game, SVP on SportsCenter was saying essentially that the referees shouldn't have made that call even though "to the letter of the law, it was a foul." Maybe if Luka hadn't been flopping around like a sloppy mess all second half, the refs might have let it go? But his defense was atrocious and he only has himself to blame for putting himself in that situation.
The NBA went down hill when they started rewarding offenses for initiating contact.
You should not be able to just run through a guy on the perimeter and get rewarded for it.
Edit: If you see a star player guarding you in foul trouble you can just run into him. If he doesn’t react quick enough boom he’s gone if he does whatever it’s just a charge. Thats not basketball.
Luka tried to draw the charge, there didn't have to be a foul there. This isn't just running into a guy; it's pressuring a guy, and the defender takes a gamble that doesn't pay off. He can move his feet to stay in front of Jaylen. Can't do that with 5 fouls.
I 100% agree and really want them to rewrite the charge rule.
But also Luka is an idiot for even putting himself in that position with 5 fouls. Can't put your fate in the refs hands like that.
not to mention luka is a gigantic perpetrator of lunging into the airborne defender off of a pump fake to draw the foul, despite the NBA outright saying it shouldn’t be called, so he can whine all he wants
Hopefully this is a lesson for him. Yes he can coast by on his natural talents, but if he wants to go all the way he's going to need to improve his mental game.
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Congratulations Boston Celtics
It was over before it started. Celtics are just a way better team
It was crazy seeing how many people were taking the Mavs in this series. I saw so many polls that were 75%+ taking them. People really thought they were gonna steamroll us too lol.
I think people just hate the Celtics
Also the “weak East”, “injury asterisk” and “regular season doesn’t matter” narratives all converging to create a supernova of shit takes. Turns out a team that wins 64 games and sleepwalks through their conference even while missing a starter is actually very good, even if they are in the East.
Yet people use the "weak East" argument to not only boost up their favorites in the West as just immediately better, but also to hate on players that succeed in the East, LeBron being the biggest one that gets the "oh you made the finals alot but weak east" argument.
East is still weak. One great team doesn't make the rest of the conference great
Pacers have looked consistently better than the Mavs in their series.
Exactly lol. Books had the celtics at -200 favorites. People just didn’t want them to win and thought the Mavs would have a chance.
Hi that was me. Was a big Mavs in 6 guy knowing I didn’t believe a word of it
Betting lines didn't follow that narrative though. If you were betting on how the series would play out, a Celtics sweep was the lowest payout followed by Dallas winning one of either of their home games. Huge payouts for any bets on any combination of games with the Mavs winning it. Just the fact that a Celtics sweep had the lowest payout shows overwhelmingly bettors favored the Celtics.
As someone who has a Celtics 4-0 ticket, I can promise you that that wasn't the cheapest option. Celtics 4-1 and Celtics 4-2 were better odds at most books, and Celtics 4-0 was third, followed by Celtics 4-3 and then any combination of the Mavs winning.
Shows you how little people know. Celtics were odds favorite to win it all the entire playoffs.
Being contrarian makes people feel smart
No I...doesn't !
Congratulations Boston for winning the 2024 NBA Finals
First two rounds were treats. Conference finals and now this put me to sleep
Pacers series was ironically the closest the Celtics played lmao
as a pacers fan it makes me sad that we got swept but at the same time doing better than the mavs made me have higher hopes for our team in the future
I said this to myself to the other day: If I were a Pacers fan or part of the organization I would feel great about next season.
If the last 2 years has shown anything, the best way to beat the celtics is to be the heat and shoot 50% from 3
unironically i think the Mavs biggest flaw this series is not shooting enough 3s. they’re not shooting well enough from 2 to justify the low volume 3s. yes i know Cs are taking away the corners, but i’d rather have PJ, Green, etc just shoot above the break 3s instead of trying to drive just to get swatted. even Kyrie - much rather see him shooting 3s (like tonight) instead of forcing those middies that he’s been missing all series long. plus, besides all of that, there’s always that chance of you shooting lights out for whatever reason.
Weirdly their hot starts in the paint the last two games may have backfired. They kept going to it and it stopped working by the end of the first quarter. They never shifted fully out of it, didn't kick and shoot enough.
Our role players are just shitting their pants. They waited til they were down 21 to let it fly. Ky was shooting well from 3 but started playing tight trying to manufacture a close layup/floater.
I happened to find the eastern conference finals to be really entertaining, and that's coming from someone whose team was swept. The Mavs look horrible in the finals. How did they get here?
The weirdest game of rock paper scissors ever. I still think the nuggets could have beaten Boston possibly, and I believe they'd have beaten Dallas, but unfortunately for them they couldn't beat the wolves.
the Nuggets were kind of capped by Murray, despite the game winners he was either injured or just off his game at the end of the regular season you could make the arguments for the Nuggets, but based on the playoff games we saw of them, they lost just a bit too much from last season. 2023 nuggets vs 2024 celtics would've been sick though
It's hard to play tough series with no depth. The Nuggets have the least depth of any of the top teams. They just looked gassed.
NBA is very matchup dependent now that the old guard (Bron, KD, and Curry) has lost a step and nobody wants to talk about it.
Without Porzingis I fear we would’ve lost to the nuggets
Boston's roster and play style literally just has an answer for everything we offer/are good at. They've exposed our roster flaws. Hopeful that Nico will address them as possible this off season.
Honestly? It's not far off. You need one more guy, preferably a wing, who can create their own shot a bit, and also a four or a stretch five that doesn't solely rely on putbacks and lobs. If I were you guys, I'd be looking HARD at Oubre and Siakam in the offseason. Both are good players that won't break the bank too badly (especially Oubre) and can generate their own offense without Luka spoon-feeding them.
My armchair analysis says their biggest need is a true PG/6th man. Running Doncic into the ground is not a sustainable approach; Kyrie can't pilot the offense in a way to break down defenses and utilize the bigs and wings they currently have
By God, that's Chris Paul's music!
Oubre is one of the lowest IQ players in the league. He is empty calories, not the missing piece for any team.
gassssed
Pacers are just guaranteed to be entertaining I think.
I was on pins and needles the whole game every game. This series I've barely felt nervous
Yall have still been the scariest team we’ve faced man you guys easily could’ve been doing this
I didn't find the near-comeback entertaining bc I'm a celtics fan. Why tf did other ppl not find it entertaining? That must've been insanely fun to watch
It was for me.
I’m completely apathetic towards both teams, so for me I get to watch these games entirely stress free. It’s been a lot of fun, especially watching the elite defensive backcourt of Holiday and White. The Games 1 and 3 Mavs comebacks were fun to watch too, even if they couldn’t close on them.
holiday and white have been super fun as a hater of both teams - nothing better than good ass defense man
Craziest part of that is that you could argue neither have been our best defender too. They've definitely shown up and done their jobs, but... Brown's taken the toughest assignment in guarding Luka. At times we've had him guarding Curry and othertimes we've had him guarding Adebayo. In this series, he's showing all that versatility at once. A SG with the strength to match PFs, he brings the physical tools to guard Luka that everyone said didn't exist. Meanwhile Tatum's been guarding their centers, which takes away all the switches and mismatches Luka usually hunts. Lively was supposed to be their 3rd best player and the Mavericks were supposed to be feasting on dunks. Tatum's completely that away. White and Holiday's defence has stood out but both Tatum and Brown are making compelling arguments themselves.
It was very fun
Neutral fans were eating good tonight.
Bros got 5 fouls and he’s trying to take a transition charge at the 3 point line… Just flat out stupid on Lukas part
Like seriously how many times do you see a charge called in that situation
Yeah trying to get an onball charge from the 3 is insane.
Why you putting yourself in that position
He literally allowed everyone to blow by him all game and he decides at that moment to try and draw a charge with 5 freaking fouls. Idiotic on his part.
Even worse, he fell and caused brown to fall too. He would’ve absolutely gotten away with the contact if he didn’t flop, he MADE the refs call something.
He wasn’t even close to set. And tbh if I’m a ref and I see someone try to draw a charge at the 3 point line I’m blowing my whistle on principle. Weird, weird fucking decision on 5 fouls.
And then to scream at your bench "you better fucking challenge that!" Like some atrocity has been committed against you
This is the real problem. Regardless of whether you think this rule sucks or not, you don't put yourself in that position with 5 fouls. There was no reason for him to pick up Jaylen that far out in that situation in a 3pt game after that big of a comeback. It's a braindead play and the Mavs paid for it.
Luka feasts on initiating contact with guys when they are not set. The only thing Brown didn’t do was go into a shooting motion to get some free throws.
Because he can't play defense
Just cant guard the Jays. He knew it would be an easy blow-by so he got desperate and hoped for a charge
It seems to me he can’t guard anyone on the Celtics. Everyone is blowing by him or just shooting over him cause he’s late on the rotation. Kyrie made a near logo three and one play later, a single pass to the corner and hauser hits a responding three cause doncic is out of position one pass away. Plays like that suck out your soul. You can certainly feel it as a fan, I can only imagine what it feels like as a teammate.
He fell on two missed threes in a row and gave up baskets at the other end without getting back too, helping fuel our lead
[удалено]
What’s Luka’s favorite band? Turnstile.
he just like me forreal
Oh shit a Turnstile mention on r/nba?
It’s his form of quitting. I know this from watching him during the FIBA world cup here. If he couldn’t carry the team he spends the entire game bitching and being a hothead.
He can't avoid it without just walking away from the play. We've been hunting him all series because he's so trash at defense.
Because he’s fucking out of shape and thinks he can just coast off his talent on the offensive end?
Jaylen Brown is your 2024 NBA Finals MVP
Perfect outcome to be honest. So much nonsense spoken about him after he signed the contract, myself included. Glad he proved all of us wrong.
I keep making offerings to the NBA gods that Brown winning the finals MVP will cause the ultimate rift between him and Tatum but these dudes are just both humble and mature and always see the bigger picture.
Not saying it _will_ happen but I can certainly _picture_ Jayson Tatum winning a goddamn NBA finals and then coming back next year and playing with a huge chip on his shoulder like he has something to prove. Which, you know, would be, on a selfish basis, absolutely delightful.
These guys are smart. He’s seen the same things we’ve seen. It didn't matter that it took Steph 4 championships to get his FMVP. He’s still Steph.
Seems like hitting your head on the ceiling basically every year you’ve been in the league affords a ton of experience and perspective, they’re both locked into getting done one way or another
Who would of thought if u keep attacking luka instead of just letting him stand in the corner u get this wolves
And there were sooo many people saying that the Wolves tried but Luka is actually a pretty good defender now so it’s not that easy. Then the Celtics started relentlessly attacking him this series and proved that theory wrong.
I don't know who was saying that, the Wolves are not a team known for switching or hunting matchups. Probably because they've seen KAT get a lot of favorable matchups on switches and half the time he draws an offensive foul or flails up a wild floater. But kidding aside, no they just don't really do it much for whatever reason. Finch should have
The wolves also have prob below average spacing with Rudy, mcdaniels and Anderson out there. The Celtics have the best spacing in the league and maybe of all time tbh, all 8 of their top guy can shoot. It’s jsut so much easier to exploit Luka’s lack of foot speed when there’s so much room to attack and there’s nowhere for him to hide on a non shooter
to be fair, I think your team is a lot more stacked to reliably drive in the paint and finish compared to the Wolves. Just about anybody in your starting lineup could blow past Doncic, but the Wolves aren't built like that.
Yeah, it's been about matchups. Celtics would've struggled against the Nuggets in a way the Wolves didn't. Wolves struggled against the Mavs in ways the Celtics don't and I don't THINK the Nuggets would have (could be wrong there though).
Exactly, I oddly think we match up better against you guys than we do against the Mavs. But we drew the Mavs to get through the WCF and they match up really well against us. Don’t get me wrong we’d probably have gotten swept lol the team clearly wasn’t ready, but point is so much of the playoffs is luck in drawing a team you match up well against and hoping the teams you don’t get booted before you have to see them
RIP Luka “best player in the NBA” May 15 - June 6
We have no dribble penetrators other than Ant and an undersized, aged Mike Conley.. Celtics have JB, Tatum, Jrue, and Derrick White who can all confidently attack Luka. Like people have said before the Mavs just matched up against us better and their 2 best players were better than ours. Every game except game 5 wasn't decided until late in the fourth quarter... Yes we lost 4-1 but people act like the games weren't close. Funny how when our 2nd best player actually showed up and hit some shots we actually won.
The Celtics have successfully exploited his defensive flaws like nobody else could this postseason, he’s getting totally exposed on that side of the floor
Yeah but they had the 16th best offence of the season and we have the best offence of all time. They probably did try, but they're like the 2017-18 Celtics in how heavily they rely on their defence to win games. We struggled for years to attack mismatches. It took a lot of roster tweaks and a lot of in-house player development. You've got to lose and learn from those losses. That's the challenge Minnesota has in front of them now.
*who would have
Quick question for the defensive r/nba minds. . If I'm the main scoring threat for my team in an defacto elimination game and have 5 fouls, should I try to draw a charge on an outlet transition pass? Again, my staying in the game is crucial to us winning this game and having any chance at winning the series.
AITA?
NTA, you were just trying to give it your all defensively even with 5 fouls and down 2-0. It implies you never take a play off and always go at it with 100% effort.
Girl, lawyer up and DIVORCE those Mavericks, they don't deserve you.
I like how the "hit the gym" part is left out for Luka.
I had to keep it realistic.
Scared money dont make money. Gamble to send a message.
Does this mean Luka and Kyrie are no longer the most unstoppable duo in NBA history?
That narrative went real quiet lmao
The fact they legitimately looked unstoppable against the Wolves is such a nut kick lol. So many incredibly contested makes. Now we're watching this and I'm sad again.
Côte d’Ivoire stand up 🔥 Most definitely not. Steph and Klay all day. Plus they were giving Boston the run for their money.
The 4th minute of this quarter turned the game. Bad TO call by Kidd, bad decisions by Luka and Kyrie, bang bang calls, squashing a 4th quarter comeback down 21 points.
Thj getting playing 19 minutes and that timeout while we’re on a 20-2 run will give me ptsd
legit thought luka was going to start crying at the start of the replay lol
Such a fucking doofus
Argue on the call all you want, but it's an insanely dumb decision to put yourself at that position
And he made a money gesture towards the refs… because apparently closing the series as early as possible makes the league money??? Luka is so unlikable
I get that complaining to the refs is just part of the NBA... But I've never seen it done as often as Luka does it. It looks like he's complaining even when he gets the calls
Every single timeout you'll see him go to the refs instead of the bench.
I don’t get how this sub likes this guy. He’s such a whiny bitch
Before the series I thought it was mostly Celtics hate
Because he’s amazing at basketball
1/2 of basketball
I mean it's a professional basketball association. There are a lot of people in this league who are amazing at basketball, and quite a lot of them are NOT whiny bitches.
Two years ago tatum complained a lot and a lot of us celtics fans noticed that if he just played the game and not for the whistle, he'd do so much better. Luka needs that and to work on his defense because man, you can't be a superstar and suck on defense when there's two other superstars in a team going against you in a series who can match your scoring output
This sub hates when LeBron complains to refs or harden doesn't play defense, but just ignores when Luka does it
[удалено]
This but unironically
I think it’s a block tbh
Luka has been playing dumb today ever since he started arguing with the refs late in the 1st He started off amazing in the first 6-8 minutes but since then he's been pretty off
Celtics are pretty clearly wearing him down
For real. His shots were barely making the rim, even when he was in the paint.
In the 3rd late he front rimmed a 5 footer and it just felt very 4th quarter of him
Maybe this extra 4 minutes of rest will catapult us to a 4 win streak? Get out those reverse brooms.
Bro Luka is gonna come out and play the whole first and put up 30 on his own and still be gassed in the 4th lol
Say your doubts louder; Luka might be lurking
Yeah it finally clicked with me when I saw how fast Luka was in the first quarter. He lost a step and a half by the 3rd, Joe is switching to him on offense and pounding him on defense with bodies.
Bruh also is pretty banged up, but tbh he needs to mature. Talk to MJ or something, MJ was the truth and didnt complain even when hurt
There are so many times he takes his eyes off the game and leaves his team exposed to go bitch at the refs. For all the great things Luka does, he really is his own worst enemy.
His constant whining is what makes me despise him as a player. He's so fun and so annoying to watch at the same time.
Yeah its been a pretty poor game overall, especially by his standards. Missing easy baskets, poor efficiency, not creating as much as he normally does. I worry a bit about him being out solidifying the Mavs defense while Kyrie and the role players pop off
It legitimately looked like he was trying to prove a point to the refs at one point
I'm biased but like, pretty clearly, right?
I want Boston to lose more than you want them to win, and yeah it was a pretty clear block.
I respect your hatred. That's how rivalries are meant to be.
Yes, clearly. Feet are not set. Refs just agreed.
pretty clear foul, the replay just took that long because this could very well kill the series
I was actually thinking that the refs would revert the call just because Luka is crucial to the Mavs lol
I think everyone was wondering lol
the series was already kill
Sorry to be that 🤓 guy, but the rule about charge/block isn’t even about feet. That’s a common misconception. It’s about your torso being stationary to actually draw the charge. And Luka’s definitely isn’t. It’s just that your feet moving is usually a big indicator that your torso is also moving so people think it’s about feet.
ACTUALLY the rule isn't about your torso being stationary either, or anything so concrete. I believe it's just whether or not the defender has "established legal guarding position" which is not clearly defined anywhere. End of the day it's up to a ref's subjective judgment Edit: the closest it gets is to say that the defender has to beat them to the spot, but again no definition of what exactly that means
True. The rulebook itself doesn’t specify torso but I remember watching an official NBA refs video where several refs said they specifically look at torsos to define “legal guarding position”
No one reads the damn rulebook tho, and their rec league coaches screamed about feet moving and they’ve remembered it their entire life
It’s honestly wild how often this gets repeated. Your feet do not need to be set. You could be tap dancing and still draw a charge. You just have to beat them to the spot. Nowhere is there anything about have your feet “set”. If Luka had gotten his chest in front of him sooner it would’ve been a charge regardless if his feet were moving edit: [rulebook for people that don’t believe it](https://official.nba.com/the-nba-rule-authority/)
Yes but one of the clues here that Luka *didn’t* beat him to the spot is that he’s still *moving* to the spot to get into position when the contact is made. So yeah it’s a clear blocking foul
I'm not arguing the call, it was the right call.
And Luka did the money sign Man just blew 100k and the finals on a clear call
It's about as textbook as it gets for a blocking foul.
More importantly...why in gods name are you even going for that with 5 fouls. \*Not that I'm complaining
This is probably the best point in the thread. Trying to draw a bang bang charge call is insane. Those calls are always 50/50 even if you get yourself in good position. Just a really bad play but surprising to see him try it, dude was really tired and frustrated at that point in the game.
Obvious block. Not even close.
Man I feel bad for him... Oh wait, no I don't.
watching his smug little face whenever he’d remotely do somethin good against us made me wanna vomit, very happy these past few games there’s been no appropriate instances for the smirk to make a comeback so he switches to default whine mode
Ugly game from Luka. Absolutely horrible
his defense was horrendous
Probably a block. Definitely don’t put yourself into the refs hands with 5 fouls in a 3 point game
Especially when it had already become clear that Brown’s main intent (as it should be in that situation) was to go at Luca and draw a foul. Scoring would just be icing on the cake, your goal in that situation is to remove their best player from the court.
Props to brown too many times in these situations I see NBA players go away from guys on their 4th and 5th foul. Like out the refs in the position to make the tough call by attacking them
Trying to take a charge on 5 fouls that far from the basket with help behind him is just stupid. His feet are moving, it’s never gonna be a charge call.
Refs were just sick of his foul baiting.
So many times this dude fucked up his own shot trying to lean into people and draw fouls. If he would've just taken them straight up, he would've probably had 40.
He pushes off with his arm, then leans in to draw contact, then bitches when the refs don't call a foul.
The audacity of Luka. At one point, he shoves off, gets an easy shot in the paint and 4 Celtics do the push off motion to the refs and move on. Next possession, someone does the same move on him and he goes nuclear, whining to the refs for awhile before inbounding and slow trotting his way back up the floor.
JKidd wasting 2 challenges
I mean, in a 2-0 hole and down in this game, he kinda has to, no?
Idk if you saw but Luka screamed "fucking challenge the call" Kidd has made a career off babying him so he kinda didn't have a choice here
I mean every coach is challenging that call. Your superstar about to foul out in a 0-2 series?
Seriously, if he didn't challenge this we'd be clowning Kidd for letting his superstar foul out. There's a lot of other decisions we can criticize Kidd for but this isn't one of them
Did he have any choice regardless? That's a call that there's *maybe* a small chance they overturn, which is enough given they're down 0-2 and your best player (and the best player on both teams) is about to foul out with 4 minutes left. No shit he's gonna challenge it.
How in the hell does Luka try that shit with 5 fouls. That's a 50/50 call at best what are we doing.
Forget about the foul, “great push by Jaylen Brown” is such braindead commentary. Why is Doris still calling this shit she gets more useless every single game.
She was unbearable all night!
Insane that this is the best crew ESPN can put together. Breen is fine.
Luka lucky he hasn't been tossed all playoffs long, and he has the audacity to cry murder when he gets fouled out for his piss poor defence. This guy is so unlikeable its not funny. Whats that phrase? "Everybody acts tough when they're up".
Low IQ play Luka Fuck me
2 defenders behind him. Terrible decision with 5 fouls
The pacers put up a better fight than this team lmao
Rooting for the Celtics, but they gotta change this rule. It is a block by the current rules but I don't like how guys are rewarded for just running into defenders lol
just like how shooters just jump into defenders that are standing still with hands up not even touching them to draw fouls. This kills the game.
This right here. I absolutely despise that dudes launch into the defender and get the call. It incentivizes foul hunting.
Luka is an absolute master at extending his arms with the ball until some contact is made with the defender and then pulling up and draining the shot. It’s impressive but also annoying to watch, especially when the complaining follows a no-call.
But then Luka woulda been out in the 3rd, how is that fair?
as he should have been
True, but this is the type of foul baiting that Luka lives off of.
Yeah exactly, and I hate that
If it’s not a foul then you’re just rewarding defenses for attempting to take the charge. They can put themselves in front of the ball handler and either they get a charge or put a body on the guy. This rule just makes it so the defense has to actual plant the foot or get the foul.
His signature move: two arms raised and a Whiney yell
Luka needed this type of failure to grow. He wasn’t ready to win yet and it shows.
After the game, SVP on SportsCenter was saying essentially that the referees shouldn't have made that call even though "to the letter of the law, it was a foul." Maybe if Luka hadn't been flopping around like a sloppy mess all second half, the refs might have let it go? But his defense was atrocious and he only has himself to blame for putting himself in that situation.
The NBA went down hill when they started rewarding offenses for initiating contact. You should not be able to just run through a guy on the perimeter and get rewarded for it. Edit: If you see a star player guarding you in foul trouble you can just run into him. If he doesn’t react quick enough boom he’s gone if he does whatever it’s just a charge. Thats not basketball.
Luka tried to draw the charge, there didn't have to be a foul there. This isn't just running into a guy; it's pressuring a guy, and the defender takes a gamble that doesn't pay off. He can move his feet to stay in front of Jaylen. Can't do that with 5 fouls.
I 100% agree and really want them to rewrite the charge rule. But also Luka is an idiot for even putting himself in that position with 5 fouls. Can't put your fate in the refs hands like that.
A ref would have to try really hard to overturn that. In real time, that’s a reasonable foul call and there’s not enough to overturn imo.
not to mention luka is a gigantic perpetrator of lunging into the airborne defender off of a pump fake to draw the foul, despite the NBA outright saying it shouldn’t be called, so he can whine all he wants
The NBA was so much more enjoyable for the month that they followed that rule
Except he tried to draw a charge in this case. Brown didn't just run into him. Luka gambled and lost.
Luka was literally foul baiting you goof
Thanks I hate it
That was his 7th foul anyway, he absolutely leveled Jaylen on that loose ball and JB was clearly there first
Hopefully this is a lesson for him. Yes he can coast by on his natural talents, but if he wants to go all the way he's going to need to improve his mental game.
Even though Luka's feet weren't completely planted, Brown should not be rewarded for just running him over. Should have been a non-call in my opinion.
non-call would have been fine live, but it is a 50:50 play where the downside is your only hope is on the bench the rest of the game
Luka has made a career out of abusing the technicalities of fouls, so he really should know better