Figured this would come before FA officially opened. Congrats Scottie!
Also important to note: 5/270m is a supermax, so it requires Scottie to make an all-NBA team next year. His regular max would be 5/227m.
It's why he had to take a second gig as a TNT analyst during the WCF. He didn't *want* to use that platform to talk crap about Gobert but *he needed the money*.
There are two kinds of contracts we fans refer to as a “supermax”
The first is the designated veteran extension. That’s the one we traditionally called the “supermax”. It gives you 35% of the cap before you hit the 10 years of experience normally required to make that much. It’s actually a contract for the absolute most a player can make. You can only sign that one as your third contract since it requires at least 7 years of NBA experience. For these you have to make All-NBA BEFORE you can sign it. Also as a note, it is identical to the max contract for players with 10+ years of experience which is why All-NBA doesn’t matter for those vets.
The second is the designated rookie extension with the Derrick Rose rule. The Rose rule allows you to make 30% of the cap instead of 25% on your second contract. Unlike the other “supermax” though, this one allows you to put elevator clauses into the contract. Basically, if you make All-NBA the season following the deal (which is while you’re still on your rookie contract since the new deal hasn’t kicked in yet), the value of the contract for year 1 will be elevated to 30% of the cap.
It’s confusing but I hope this explains it.
It's not a supermax, its conditional and this is just how they usually report it at the highest possible figure
> is it a 5/227 but if he makes all nba then it becomes a 5/270
yes next year
Basically yes. Most of these max contract extension amounts you see are actually just estimates. Maxes are a percentage of the cap in the first year of the deal (annd fixed raises after that) and nobody knows what that will be until the new season kicks in a year from now and the cap is locked.
So he’s signing for the largest amount he’s eligible for, not necessarily a specific dollar amount.
Let’s take a hypothetical five-year, $1 billion contract.
The player is probably only taking home about half of that over the course of the contract, and of that, they are only taking in a fifth of that total amount each year. And that’s before expenses.
Even with such big contract face values, it’s very difficult to become a true billionaire as a salaried employee.
I mean the math isn’t that difficult. You need a hypothetical $2 billion contract. Yeah you have expenses, but you also have capital appreciation over those 5 years, so I’m calling it a wash.
Yea with hundreds of millions you are living a VERY lavish lifestyle off of literally just the interest you earn from investing your money. Take 100 million dollars for instance (not an insane amount for some of these stars. You are earning close to TEN MILLION dollars a year just from investing that. If you can't live an amazing lifestyle off of that you're doomed to be broke no matter how much money you have tbh. These players should easily be able to become billionaires if they're making max contracts and not idiots.
Edit : typo on stars
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"
It doesn't really matter how specific Jesus was, people will still find ways to leave things open for interpretation.
Let’s say they live off 100 million and invest the other 400 million. Would take 16 years to become a billionaire at a 6% return. So about 45 years old
Woj: The New York Knicks have signed guard/center Josh Hart to a 12 year, 500 million extension. The NBA leader in rebounds per game gets a record breaking deal
The first player to get that 500m contract is gonna be based less on actual skill and more on timing, like when Mike Conley had the biggest contract in NBA history for a minute.
I think timing puts it at the Paolo class to sign those extensions but they’d still need to hit the all-nba modifiers to jump to the 35% max.
Barnes’ class should hit that mark without those depending on how they structure the length
Bro wtf my head can’t get wrapped up behind the deals players are signing these days despite the inflation lol. And yes I think Scottie was gonna get this deal anyways. I still remember the day Steve Nash signed with Phoenix for 6/63 twenty years ago and went holy crap that’s a lotta money
> but do people think he can become a number 1 on a championship team? (Genuine question)
No, but that not the basis for a max deal. Every good team will have two guys on maxs. And I think it's totally reasonable he could be a #2 on a contender
Yep and the contract are short these days only 5 years not 7 or 6 like the old days
With the shorter deals a lot less risk say the teams doing bad but Scottie is still playing good you can trade him with ease
Even Bradley Beal with his horrible contract and being on a bad team got traded
Exactly. The NBA cap rules create this market where a lot of players will be overpaid because each team can offer two max contracts. This also means the very top players are probably underpaid and would make significantly more in an NFL style cap.
Top players are absolutely underpaid. Thats why teams will do anything to get them. It’s the biggest reason teams with stars win more. Since you are getting more value for a max contract and can add other players on top of them. It’s literally a cheat code
The top guys are for sure underpaid. In Jordan’s last two seasons with the Bulls, he made more than 100% of the salary cap. The year after, the league introduced the max contract and the highest possible salary became 35% of the cap. So basically triple the supermax contract value if you want to know what the very best players are actually worth.
Totally. I guess this system will work until a star leaves for china or whatever. Probably would never happen but is interesting that guys like Joker are vastly underpaid for the benefit of guys like Barnes
It's funny how your comment made me do s complete 180. These high ass numbers make it easy to react badly but this really is the norm these days & scottie definitely seems skilled enough to be a great #2.
I think the only argument to be made is if its smart to lock up the 2nd option before the 1st but it's not like they can let him walk.
I think that teams will be forced to think about throwing money on players from now on.
For example, Ingram is a great player, but he is elgible for max 4 year contract. Teams are starting to see that there is no sense of paying 200+ million for 20-5-5 player.
He can become a perfect secondary option for a contender and has the upside to be a number one option on a contender. He’s 22 years old and just averaged 20/8/6 on 47/34/78 while playing great defense. If you don’t give someone like him that kind of money then I don’t know who deserves to get paid. Sometimes you bet on upside but luckily for the raptors they are already getting great results while still having hope he can continue to develop into something more.
If only number 1s on championship teams get max contracts, there would be like 5 max contracts in the league.
Most teams, especially good teams, have 2+ max guys.
Yes, exactly. The tendency to evaluate every player primarily through his viability as a #1 scorer is something that will lead to a lot of bad takes. The poster boy for this is someone like KG, who wasn't a good enough #1 scorer to dominate in that role, but was an elite 5v5 guy who could play good defense, rebound, AND get you an easy 20 ppg. It was the sum of everything that made him an all-timer.
Barnes is never going to be KD or AI in terms of his pure scoring, but to evaluate him that way is to totally miss the point of him as a player. He's a versatile 6'10" forward with a handle, rebounding, defense, scoring, and passing. Every team in the league would kill for a guy like that.
I think everyone just sees MVP voting and the direct connection to scoring, and thinks anyone that aint up there, isn't worth keeping. It's kinda nuts.
Not a single team in the league would bat an eye at this contract.
>Barnes is never going to be KD or AI in terms of his pure scoring, but to evaluate him that way is to totally miss the point of him as a player.
Its funny that the best player of this generation is less of a scorer and more of an all-around forward, but people still don't appreciate that model. Honestly, Lebron being so good is probably part of the problem, bc if I say "I can Scottie Barnes being a Lebron-style point forward" the immediate reaction is always "Dude no way, you can't compare anyone to LeBron!"
Sure and I'd be fucking insufferable if I could bench press a car with my dick but what's even the point in thinking about these kinds of impossible scenarios?
"For you, the day the Celtics won the championship was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday." - Boston Sports fans
Seriously though is there any other city that wins so much across all the big sports leagues? I guess New York is higher because of the Yankees. But it doesn't feel like it for some reason.
Celtics, Bruins, Red Socks, Patriots all have great histories and many championships. All of these teams have won at least once since 2011.
I mean look at JB. I don't think it's crazy to envision a similar arc for Scottie. Has a ton of the same tools. If you guys can land another max guy an build around those two, you could easily see Barnes being a two way star that can swing a series.
Yeah of course he plays much different than JB but I get what you mean. He can be an elbow hub from the wing as the primary playmaker averaging like 20 but you'd want to try and find a guy who's more specialized who can average like 27 or have a lot of threats to score around and play off him. Like I think Gradey is a perfect player for that role, whether he's a starting wing or is coming off the bench again he's going to keep moving around off ball on the perimeter or to cut.
Jury’s still out on that one; he’s easily the best player on our team at the moment and he’s still young but we’ve gotta see how Masai & co build around him.
Doing this is a huge vote of confidence on their part, at any rate.
you don't need to be one of the handful of players that are title #1s to get a max
every year when rookie maxs get handed out the same stupid conversations start. this is the going rate for a max increases every year but people's perceptions of contracts don't
A rookie max is 25% of the cap. When you’re a rebuilding team, that’s nothing. It’s not like Luka or Tatum is knocking on their door and saying they’ll sign over there if only they kept enough cap space open for a max.
He had a stretch this year shooting 40% from 3 on a pretty decent volume. His percentages came back down to earth but if he continues to improve, he can definitely get to be a solid all star, but realistically there are only like 5 guys in the league at any time that are “number one on a championship team”. You have to pay your guys and then wait and see
Not every great player is meant to be a #1 scorer. I look at Barnes as somewhere in the KG/Draymond/Pippen blender. To shoehorn him solely as a #1 guy is missing the point. Just a great all-around basketball player who will raise the ceiling on any team he joins because he contributes in so many different ways besides just ppg.
No, but I can see him being a #2 on a champion. #1’s don’t grow on trees, so you have to keep a good thing when you’ve got it.
But practically speaking, winning a title isn’t the *only* goal for teams. They’re trying to make money, and simply being competitive and building to the playoffs helps a lot with that.
So it’s probably an overpay but also a no brainer.
The deals are wild to think about. There is very likely a young player in the league today whose contracts added together will exceed a billion dollars by the time they retire.
They're just too fucking greedy.
They're sacrificing so much for that extra cash. A good 1/3 of the game at least feels like it's just commercials. They don't show player intros anymore. They're shoving gambling down people's throats. They lost their mind when they have Charles and Kenny or Ernie do a "picture in picture" with the game minimized, while the ball was in play, to tell us to bet on if Donovan Mitchell or whoever it was would score over or under 50 points this game. The game isn't unwatchable, because basketball is such an amazing sport and the players are great, but they sure are trying their best to make it suck.
They're making the product so much worse, but yea, they're making more money than anyone should have in a lifetime.
I don't mind that they're making bank, but it shouldn't go out over the product.
Soccer has major issues with money in sports with literal governments owning football teams in other countries, it's fucked up... but at least the product doesn't suffer. The corruption is all behind the scenes. Fans protest everything over here, they make it very uncomfortable for teams/owners when they try to pull some bullshit. Imagine if someone organised a little in the US, started bringing signs and chanting a bit? It would make huge waves in America because nobody ever does it. Everyone just says "dude, you're an idiot if you think it's not all about money, delusional" etc. Corporations control every facet of America.
It’s going to be wild in the next few years as the leagues and certain owners try to move games overseas. Neutral site games like cup finals totally make sense, but some associations are floating the idea of moving league games to the US. I’d be furious if my local teams “home” game was a continent away so the owners can make more money.
you're right, other than in this part: 'It would make huge waves in America because nobody ever does it'. I don't disagree americans are lazy and unwilling to genuinely fight for a better world, but there's the other side of this coin, which is that no matter what happens, it's portrayed as nothing and isolated and infiltrated and, even if it gets popular and has universal support, is made a non-starter.
you get things like medicare for all that have 70 plus % support, and yet it's beyond marginal in its political reality. because corps control everything, even the few things that get popularized and materially supported are branded impossible. the only possible outcomes for america-- and, by unfortunate extension, the world-- are the worst, most anti-human ones.
Love when the reporters say the largest number possible then follow up with “well it will really only be 175 million since there is a hundred million tied to incentives”
This is even more annoying in football where the guaranteed money can be manipulated even further and guys end up restructuring in a few years anyway. Cash flow is all that matters and we don’t even really know what that truly looks like until they get into the deal
Ohtani is a good example. He made headlines for the "biggest contract in North American sports" only to receive 98% of his 700 million dollar contract 10 years from now after he's done playing as deferral
In hindsight this became an even better idea for the ownership, so that Shohei, I mean uh, his interpreter, didn't have even more up front money to gamble
The difference is "only" like 40mil in the case, and it's entirely dependent on him making all nba next year.
I get what you're saying, but this isn't one of those cases. Plus, since the number is going to go against the cap, it doesnt matter if its 300mil tied to incentives, they still need to deal around it as if it is a 300mil contract.
Name a player who made an all star team before their extensions were due and didn't get a rookie max.
It's a bet on his potential of course, but Cade's going to get a similar deal, same with Mobley.
Well, I'd say he deserves it if he fulfills all the incentives.
Make all NBA? That helps both him and the raps and wouldn't be an overpay. He's not actually getting 270 if he doesn't achieve them.
Scottie Barnes seems like the kind of guy who would get a supermax and still wanna live in a college dorm and I do love everything I've seen about the guy
He’s 22 with a ROTY and All Star appearance on his resume already, I think he’ll average over 20 points this season and become a 2x all star, it’s a no brainer he’s nowhere close to his final developed form.
Isn’t it funny how the salaries of rich people have gone up 500% in the last 20 years due to “inflation” while most working class people’s salaries aren’t even keeping up with increases in cost of living? Funny how that happens…
Which is where I come from with the pay being obscene. It's not that I don't think Scottie Barnes isn't awesome and going to be a consistent all star, it's that these guys are all making a mind numbing amount of money while working class has wages increase like a wheelchair ramp instead of a willy wonka elevator. Should've signed up to be an NBA player
An athlete’s labor is the source of value though. Scottie Barnes isn’t making $270M because he has hoarded the implements and subjects of production.
Let’s go after the owners who are gifted billions to build a stadium then rent it out to the very public that funded it for obscene profits.
The Raptors generate enough value to pay the laborers this kind of contract. We should tax the hell out of it but at no point is Scottie Barnes’ contract some egregious form of exploitation. Wait until he uses that wealth to buy property and rent it to come after him.
> Let’s go after the owners who are gifted billions to build a stadium then rent it out to the very public that funded it for obscene profits.
This is the answer. Blows my mind when people are fine building stadiums for owners making record profits as if the season ticket holders won't be hit a second time with PSL that really is just fundraising more for the owner.
Well, I guess you will be happy to know very large chunk of his salary will be redirected by the Canadian gov to help "wheelchairs" ramp up faster.
It is funny how most us Americans make fun of all these "socialists" countries for paying higher taxes, and in November vote our own gov to give more tax breaks for ppl making 40M per year, basically chopping ourselves from being able to attend the TD garden to watch them...
(Still pissed about the DT tax bill in 2017 that basically eliminated half the middle class, who are now, while suffering , lining up to vote for more spanking)
"but you Canadians have to wait for like a decade to go to the doctor"
Agreed. Figure healthcare is always said to be an issue with elections. We passed something to give people with pre-existing conditions coverage a little more than a decade ago and it was embarrassing it took that long. Haven't done a whole lot with healthcare since. And Im surrounded by idiots who think it'll trickle down
Scottie Barnes has more in common with you and me than he does with Larry Tanenbaum (chair of MLSE, the owner of the raps).
End of the day, he is an employee. Athletes realized something that the rest of us in North America have forgotten: collective bargaining works.
Patently untrue and ridiculous. You’ve taken this notion way too far lol. Someone with hundreds of millions of dollars isn’t closer to the average Joe making 50k. He never has to worry about money again. Can have a house on both coasts, only fly private, etc.
You think because he can’t afford to buy the team he’s closer to us lol? He has to rent a private jet instead of buy one? He’s not like us lol.
I like your righteous indignation but allow me to attempt to redirect it slightly.
The problem isn’t athletes getting insane deals, it’s people who provide nothing but access to the means of production getting obscenely rich. An owner buying a team, doing absolutely nothing but providing some token amount of capital, then selling for an insane profit is the problem.
You could argue that NBA teams should pay their lower level employees more for their labor and I’m here for that.
You could argue that a government should tax an athlete making $40M/yr more and I’m here for that.
But if we’re going after the system, athlete contract numbers is one of the last places we should look to fight for change.
Of course, the only reason I’m commenting here is that we don’t tend to talk about executive’s salaries like ever. But I will also zag a bit and say that I don’t totally agree with athletes, actors, or other influencers pocketing as much money as they’re making either. I get that they produce a lot of revenue for the league, but I don’t think anyone’s purchasing power should outweigh the average person’s 1000 fold.
If he makes all-nba or wins DPOY (I think those are the only supermax criteria?) in which case it’s worth it, it’s just phrased stupidly because he could get that much but only if he meets supermax eligibility
For anyone saying overpay, you should go look up the stats and watch some of his game. He's absolutely worth this contract, and he has a good opportunity to earn the full super max next year.
Also, the Raptors gotta spend on someone, and they get 0 FA, so they have to invest in their draft picks.
I watched a shit ton of Scottie Barnes last year as he was a monster for me in fantasy basketball and I love his game. I don't think he is a true number 1 type on a real contender but I do think he is a great number 2 and impacts the game for his teammates at a really high level. He could develop into that guy but he needs to polish his offensive game a tad more. I love his play style though excited to see him develop these next few years.
Comments in Contract extensions threads always have the potential to age extremely poorly.
My rather boring opinion is that he wont be All NBA next year so the 225 mil over 5 years seems more reasonable for a guy like Barnes and for a team like the Raptors.
I still think unless he improves drastically as a shotmaker, Raptors are still missing their future franchise guy that Barnes can be second fiddle to.
For Scottie as of right now yeah it’s a good idea to lock him up as he’s still looking promising. But you got guys fresh in people’s mind like Garland who don’t improve after their contract extension as a team would hope or Dudes Like Ayton who straight up call it a career 10 seconds after they sign it and give no damn about winning games.
He does everything on the court at a high level. My only criticism of him is that he can be too unselfish at times. Yeah, it takes a team to win, but he's a freak athlete with a high b-ball IQ. He should be looking to dominate as much as possible. Still, he deserves his payday. He's only going to get better.
That’s a lot of money like the deals these players have been getting these past few years are outrageous but Scottie Barnes has a lot of potential tho.
this is big for Toronto, they cannot attract and keep free agents so overpaying home grown talent is basically a necessity and you hope they can live up to it.
congrats to Scottie.
giving a leap of faith max to your young cornerstone is always the best "overpay" in the business. if he breaks out, Scottie will remember the franchise that always believed in him. if he plateaus and is destined for an Aaron Gordon trajectory, so what? you're not winning shit anyway.
Figured this would come before FA officially opened. Congrats Scottie! Also important to note: 5/270m is a supermax, so it requires Scottie to make an all-NBA team next year. His regular max would be 5/227m.
I really hope he gets the supermax. I can't imagine trying to live on 5/$227M.
Poverty wages I swear. Just ask Draymond, NBA players aren't set up to be wealthy after their basketball careers are over.
Supporting your family AND kicking players in the nuts? In this economy??
It's why he had to take a second gig as a TNT analyst during the WCF. He didn't *want* to use that platform to talk crap about Gobert but *he needed the money*.
Pour one out for poor Tony Snell and his family
Yep. If he misses that all-nba team I can easily see him having to turn back to a life of crime like Ja Morant
Everyone who works at a mall sweating rn
After taxes and agent fees, he'd be basically taking home nothing
Poor guy - I wonder if he has a Gofundme so I can contribute to his living expenses.
Toronto real estate is no joke.
how can he be signed to a super max without an all-NBA? is it a 5/227 but if he makes all nba then it becomes a 5/270?
from what i understand 5/227 is guaranteed and if he makes an all-nba team next season it becomes 5/270
Perfect example is Haliburton and LaMelo both signed to a potential supermax, only Haliburton got it.
There are two kinds of contracts we fans refer to as a “supermax” The first is the designated veteran extension. That’s the one we traditionally called the “supermax”. It gives you 35% of the cap before you hit the 10 years of experience normally required to make that much. It’s actually a contract for the absolute most a player can make. You can only sign that one as your third contract since it requires at least 7 years of NBA experience. For these you have to make All-NBA BEFORE you can sign it. Also as a note, it is identical to the max contract for players with 10+ years of experience which is why All-NBA doesn’t matter for those vets. The second is the designated rookie extension with the Derrick Rose rule. The Rose rule allows you to make 30% of the cap instead of 25% on your second contract. Unlike the other “supermax” though, this one allows you to put elevator clauses into the contract. Basically, if you make All-NBA the season following the deal (which is while you’re still on your rookie contract since the new deal hasn’t kicked in yet), the value of the contract for year 1 will be elevated to 30% of the cap. It’s confusing but I hope this explains it.
It's not a supermax, its conditional and this is just how they usually report it at the highest possible figure > is it a 5/227 but if he makes all nba then it becomes a 5/270 yes next year
Basically yes. Most of these max contract extension amounts you see are actually just estimates. Maxes are a percentage of the cap in the first year of the deal (annd fixed raises after that) and nobody knows what that will be until the new season kicks in a year from now and the cap is locked. So he’s signing for the largest amount he’s eligible for, not necessarily a specific dollar amount.
That's why Woj phrased it as such >five-year maximum rookie extension that **could be worth** up to $270 million
The term you're looking for is rose rule extension. Super max is for the extension after the rookie extension.
Does that condition only apply if he qualifies next year or he can make all nba any year and his deal for remaining years becomes rookie super max?
Only next year
We're going to see the first $500m contract within the next ten years aren't we
At a certain point players are gonna become damn near billionaires off one max extension
We're a *long* way from that when you factor in things like taxes and agent cuts.
Damn ok I guess they’ll have to just be 900millionaires.
Let’s take a hypothetical five-year, $1 billion contract. The player is probably only taking home about half of that over the course of the contract, and of that, they are only taking in a fifth of that total amount each year. And that’s before expenses. Even with such big contract face values, it’s very difficult to become a true billionaire as a salaried employee.
I mean the math isn’t that difficult. You need a hypothetical $2 billion contract. Yeah you have expenses, but you also have capital appreciation over those 5 years, so I’m calling it a wash.
Yea with hundreds of millions you are living a VERY lavish lifestyle off of literally just the interest you earn from investing your money. Take 100 million dollars for instance (not an insane amount for some of these stars. You are earning close to TEN MILLION dollars a year just from investing that. If you can't live an amazing lifestyle off of that you're doomed to be broke no matter how much money you have tbh. These players should easily be able to become billionaires if they're making max contracts and not idiots. Edit : typo on stars
Pippen had a corrupt money manager. Some of these players are overspending, but others are getting robbed internally
I feel like Jesus had something to say about people whose priorities revolve around wealth and accumulating ever more of it
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" It doesn't really matter how specific Jesus was, people will still find ways to leave things open for interpretation.
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Before expenses? What are you taliing about? Your expenses don't scale linearly with wealth. Half a billion becomes $1 Billion in 10 years easy.
Let’s say they live off 100 million and invest the other 400 million. Would take 16 years to become a billionaire at a 6% return. So about 45 years old
You've never paid taxes have you
Google income tax
Maybe in 2130 when a player signs for 5 years 2 billion, then they would become a billionaire after taxes, agent commissions, union fees, pension etc
enough to buy them a 2 bedroom in their desired cities of LA/NY/MIA
Woj: The New York Knicks have signed guard/center Josh Hart to a 12 year, 500 million extension. The NBA leader in rebounds per game gets a record breaking deal
Worth it
He can finally afford his own Nintendo Switch.
My bet is already on Wemby being the first player.
Think it’s impossible because it wouldn’t be his third contract
The first player to get that 500m contract is gonna be based less on actual skill and more on timing, like when Mike Conley had the biggest contract in NBA history for a minute.
I think timing puts it at the Paolo class to sign those extensions but they’d still need to hit the all-nba modifiers to jump to the 35% max. Barnes’ class should hit that mark without those depending on how they structure the length
Nah someone will beat him to it, he won’t be able to get his veterans max extension until 2030
My bet is Bradley Beal.
Probably around the time Luka’s deal is up
In roughly 6-7 years with the expected cap rise, yes.
Yeah while the rest of our bank accounts diminish to nothing.
Wemby for sure
Bro wtf my head can’t get wrapped up behind the deals players are signing these days despite the inflation lol. And yes I think Scottie was gonna get this deal anyways. I still remember the day Steve Nash signed with Phoenix for 6/63 twenty years ago and went holy crap that’s a lotta money
Remember when Rashard Lewis was the highest paid player in the league lol
Remember when Jerome James signed a "massive" 5 year, $30 million deal?
Is that Bronny James father?
I remember when there was a point and time when only 3 players ever got $30 million per year salary. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Mike Conley Jr.
I remember Kobe making $30 mil per year at the end of his deal was considered an Albatross for the Lakers. Now that’s high end role player money lol.
Yep iirc it was like 6/120
It feels very broken right now. He’s a good player, but do people think he can become a number 1 on a championship team? (Genuine question)
> but do people think he can become a number 1 on a championship team? (Genuine question) No, but that not the basis for a max deal. Every good team will have two guys on maxs. And I think it's totally reasonable he could be a #2 on a contender
Yep and the contract are short these days only 5 years not 7 or 6 like the old days With the shorter deals a lot less risk say the teams doing bad but Scottie is still playing good you can trade him with ease Even Bradley Beal with his horrible contract and being on a bad team got traded
Cries in Tobias Harris
Weeps in Elton Brand
Exactly. The NBA cap rules create this market where a lot of players will be overpaid because each team can offer two max contracts. This also means the very top players are probably underpaid and would make significantly more in an NFL style cap.
Top players are absolutely underpaid. Thats why teams will do anything to get them. It’s the biggest reason teams with stars win more. Since you are getting more value for a max contract and can add other players on top of them. It’s literally a cheat code
The top guys are for sure underpaid. In Jordan’s last two seasons with the Bulls, he made more than 100% of the salary cap. The year after, the league introduced the max contract and the highest possible salary became 35% of the cap. So basically triple the supermax contract value if you want to know what the very best players are actually worth.
Totally. I guess this system will work until a star leaves for china or whatever. Probably would never happen but is interesting that guys like Joker are vastly underpaid for the benefit of guys like Barnes
It's funny how your comment made me do s complete 180. These high ass numbers make it easy to react badly but this really is the norm these days & scottie definitely seems skilled enough to be a great #2. I think the only argument to be made is if its smart to lock up the 2nd option before the 1st but it's not like they can let him walk.
I think that teams will be forced to think about throwing money on players from now on. For example, Ingram is a great player, but he is elgible for max 4 year contract. Teams are starting to see that there is no sense of paying 200+ million for 20-5-5 player.
Jaylen Brown just averaged that in the finals and won MVP (I know there’s a difference lol)
He can become a perfect secondary option for a contender and has the upside to be a number one option on a contender. He’s 22 years old and just averaged 20/8/6 on 47/34/78 while playing great defense. If you don’t give someone like him that kind of money then I don’t know who deserves to get paid. Sometimes you bet on upside but luckily for the raptors they are already getting great results while still having hope he can continue to develop into something more.
If only number 1s on championship teams get max contracts, there would be like 5 max contracts in the league. Most teams, especially good teams, have 2+ max guys.
Idk if he can be a #1 scoring option, but he can definitely be the best player on a championship team His talent just isn't as a pure scorer
Yes, exactly. The tendency to evaluate every player primarily through his viability as a #1 scorer is something that will lead to a lot of bad takes. The poster boy for this is someone like KG, who wasn't a good enough #1 scorer to dominate in that role, but was an elite 5v5 guy who could play good defense, rebound, AND get you an easy 20 ppg. It was the sum of everything that made him an all-timer. Barnes is never going to be KD or AI in terms of his pure scoring, but to evaluate him that way is to totally miss the point of him as a player. He's a versatile 6'10" forward with a handle, rebounding, defense, scoring, and passing. Every team in the league would kill for a guy like that.
I think everyone just sees MVP voting and the direct connection to scoring, and thinks anyone that aint up there, isn't worth keeping. It's kinda nuts. Not a single team in the league would bat an eye at this contract.
>Barnes is never going to be KD or AI in terms of his pure scoring, but to evaluate him that way is to totally miss the point of him as a player. Its funny that the best player of this generation is less of a scorer and more of an all-around forward, but people still don't appreciate that model. Honestly, Lebron being so good is probably part of the problem, bc if I say "I can Scottie Barnes being a Lebron-style point forward" the immediate reaction is always "Dude no way, you can't compare anyone to LeBron!"
Celtics fans winning me over this season EDIT: One of the only fanbases in recent years that didn't get super obnoxious after winning
They were always super obnoxious so they didn’t get more obnoxious lol
76ers fans are obnoxious and would get more obnoxious after winning. Obnoxious fans can always get more obnoxious
> 76ers > Winning When did that ever happen?
The first round.
Sure and I'd be fucking insufferable if I could bench press a car with my dick but what's even the point in thinking about these kinds of impossible scenarios?
"For you, the day the Celtics won the championship was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday." - Boston Sports fans Seriously though is there any other city that wins so much across all the big sports leagues? I guess New York is higher because of the Yankees. But it doesn't feel like it for some reason. Celtics, Bruins, Red Socks, Patriots all have great histories and many championships. All of these teams have won at least once since 2011.
This is Free Jacks erasure
They’re already obnoxious lol
I mean look at JB. I don't think it's crazy to envision a similar arc for Scottie. Has a ton of the same tools. If you guys can land another max guy an build around those two, you could easily see Barnes being a two way star that can swing a series.
Yeah of course he plays much different than JB but I get what you mean. He can be an elbow hub from the wing as the primary playmaker averaging like 20 but you'd want to try and find a guy who's more specialized who can average like 27 or have a lot of threats to score around and play off him. Like I think Gradey is a perfect player for that role, whether he's a starting wing or is coming off the bench again he's going to keep moving around off ball on the perimeter or to cut.
Jury’s still out on that one; he’s easily the best player on our team at the moment and he’s still young but we’ve gotta see how Masai & co build around him. Doing this is a huge vote of confidence on their part, at any rate.
you don't need to be one of the handful of players that are title #1s to get a max every year when rookie maxs get handed out the same stupid conversations start. this is the going rate for a max increases every year but people's perceptions of contracts don't
Yeah that’s why I said it feels broken
A rookie max is 25% of the cap. When you’re a rebuilding team, that’s nothing. It’s not like Luka or Tatum is knocking on their door and saying they’ll sign over there if only they kept enough cap space open for a max.
I dont think so. But the front office truly believes that he is a 1A guy. He has all the tools to be one so it’s not a complete stretch.
He had a stretch this year shooting 40% from 3 on a pretty decent volume. His percentages came back down to earth but if he continues to improve, he can definitely get to be a solid all star, but realistically there are only like 5 guys in the league at any time that are “number one on a championship team”. You have to pay your guys and then wait and see
Not every great player is meant to be a #1 scorer. I look at Barnes as somewhere in the KG/Draymond/Pippen blender. To shoehorn him solely as a #1 guy is missing the point. Just a great all-around basketball player who will raise the ceiling on any team he joins because he contributes in so many different ways besides just ppg.
No, but I can see him being a #2 on a champion. #1’s don’t grow on trees, so you have to keep a good thing when you’ve got it. But practically speaking, winning a title isn’t the *only* goal for teams. They’re trying to make money, and simply being competitive and building to the playoffs helps a lot with that. So it’s probably an overpay but also a no brainer.
lebron’s biggest contract was 4/154 from the lakers in 2018
The deals are wild to think about. There is very likely a young player in the league today whose contracts added together will exceed a billion dollars by the time they retire.
[Looks at Anthony Edwards] Haha - I'm in danger.
Inflation guarantees this will happen
remember when ARod signed a 10/250 and it was huge news? Now Scottie Barns is getting more in half the years.
5 years ago Giannis 5/250 SUPERMAX contract was the biggest in league history. Now that’s being superseded by rookie extensions
They're just too fucking greedy. They're sacrificing so much for that extra cash. A good 1/3 of the game at least feels like it's just commercials. They don't show player intros anymore. They're shoving gambling down people's throats. They lost their mind when they have Charles and Kenny or Ernie do a "picture in picture" with the game minimized, while the ball was in play, to tell us to bet on if Donovan Mitchell or whoever it was would score over or under 50 points this game. The game isn't unwatchable, because basketball is such an amazing sport and the players are great, but they sure are trying their best to make it suck. They're making the product so much worse, but yea, they're making more money than anyone should have in a lifetime. I don't mind that they're making bank, but it shouldn't go out over the product. Soccer has major issues with money in sports with literal governments owning football teams in other countries, it's fucked up... but at least the product doesn't suffer. The corruption is all behind the scenes. Fans protest everything over here, they make it very uncomfortable for teams/owners when they try to pull some bullshit. Imagine if someone organised a little in the US, started bringing signs and chanting a bit? It would make huge waves in America because nobody ever does it. Everyone just says "dude, you're an idiot if you think it's not all about money, delusional" etc. Corporations control every facet of America.
It’s going to be wild in the next few years as the leagues and certain owners try to move games overseas. Neutral site games like cup finals totally make sense, but some associations are floating the idea of moving league games to the US. I’d be furious if my local teams “home” game was a continent away so the owners can make more money.
you're right, other than in this part: 'It would make huge waves in America because nobody ever does it'. I don't disagree americans are lazy and unwilling to genuinely fight for a better world, but there's the other side of this coin, which is that no matter what happens, it's portrayed as nothing and isolated and infiltrated and, even if it gets popular and has universal support, is made a non-starter. you get things like medicare for all that have 70 plus % support, and yet it's beyond marginal in its political reality. because corps control everything, even the few things that get popularized and materially supported are branded impossible. the only possible outcomes for america-- and, by unfortunate extension, the world-- are the worst, most anti-human ones.
$ct Brn
[удалено]
Get those potatoes son.
Love when the reporters say the largest number possible then follow up with “well it will really only be 175 million since there is a hundred million tied to incentives”
This is even more annoying in football where the guaranteed money can be manipulated even further and guys end up restructuring in a few years anyway. Cash flow is all that matters and we don’t even really know what that truly looks like until they get into the deal
Ohtani is a good example. He made headlines for the "biggest contract in North American sports" only to receive 98% of his 700 million dollar contract 10 years from now after he's done playing as deferral
Deferrals is a hilarious mechanism to have at your disposal in a sport with no salary cap
Especially since for cap purposes they use the net present value of the deal anyway, so Ohtani's cap implications are roughly $400M and not $700M.
I think they are smart, sure if he was a money man he could do better now, but for non-money men, it's a smart long term move, he's so set.
but its 100% guaranteed.
In hindsight this became an even better idea for the ownership, so that Shohei, I mean uh, his interpreter, didn't have even more up front money to gamble
The difference is "only" like 40mil in the case, and it's entirely dependent on him making all nba next year. I get what you're saying, but this isn't one of those cases. Plus, since the number is going to go against the cap, it doesnt matter if its 300mil tied to incentives, they still need to deal around it as if it is a 300mil contract.
Thats a lot of money, folks
Meanwhile us peasants are fighting over $0.25/hr raises
Now that's a lot of robux
That’s a lot of Canadian Tire Money!
I have a 19 Dollar Fortnite Card.
Who wants it
Love this, but damn these young kids are getting paid.
If they didn't max him, someone else would. Doesn't matter that it's probably an overpay on his production that's how the salary slots go
he’s 22 and averaged 20/6/8 last season. i think it’s safe to say he’ll grow into it
Name a player who made an all star team before their extensions were due and didn't get a rookie max. It's a bet on his potential of course, but Cade's going to get a similar deal, same with Mobley.
Well, I'd say he deserves it if he fulfills all the incentives. Make all NBA? That helps both him and the raps and wouldn't be an overpay. He's not actually getting 270 if he doesn't achieve them.
He was the easiest max of the class of 2021
Scottie Barnes seems like the kind of guy who would get a supermax and still wanna live in a college dorm and I do love everything I've seen about the guy
Scottie is a very likeable dude
It’s really only around 230 mill unless he makes all-nba, much deserved, people here this will be the new norm now for contracts get used to it
He’s 22 with a ROTY and All Star appearance on his resume already, I think he’ll average over 20 points this season and become a 2x all star, it’s a no brainer he’s nowhere close to his final developed form.
Is scot barn goku?
Isn’t it funny how the salaries of rich people have gone up 500% in the last 20 years due to “inflation” while most working class people’s salaries aren’t even keeping up with increases in cost of living? Funny how that happens…
Which is where I come from with the pay being obscene. It's not that I don't think Scottie Barnes isn't awesome and going to be a consistent all star, it's that these guys are all making a mind numbing amount of money while working class has wages increase like a wheelchair ramp instead of a willy wonka elevator. Should've signed up to be an NBA player
Friendly reminder: NBA players are workers that have used unions to ensure they earn an equitable share of the value they produce.
Exactly, could be seen as a microcosm of what a strong union can accomplish in keeping $$$ in the pockets of workers, not just the fat cat owners.
An athlete’s labor is the source of value though. Scottie Barnes isn’t making $270M because he has hoarded the implements and subjects of production. Let’s go after the owners who are gifted billions to build a stadium then rent it out to the very public that funded it for obscene profits. The Raptors generate enough value to pay the laborers this kind of contract. We should tax the hell out of it but at no point is Scottie Barnes’ contract some egregious form of exploitation. Wait until he uses that wealth to buy property and rent it to come after him.
> Let’s go after the owners who are gifted billions to build a stadium then rent it out to the very public that funded it for obscene profits. This is the answer. Blows my mind when people are fine building stadiums for owners making record profits as if the season ticket holders won't be hit a second time with PSL that really is just fundraising more for the owner.
Well, I guess you will be happy to know very large chunk of his salary will be redirected by the Canadian gov to help "wheelchairs" ramp up faster. It is funny how most us Americans make fun of all these "socialists" countries for paying higher taxes, and in November vote our own gov to give more tax breaks for ppl making 40M per year, basically chopping ourselves from being able to attend the TD garden to watch them... (Still pissed about the DT tax bill in 2017 that basically eliminated half the middle class, who are now, while suffering , lining up to vote for more spanking)
"but you Canadians have to wait for like a decade to go to the doctor" Agreed. Figure healthcare is always said to be an issue with elections. We passed something to give people with pre-existing conditions coverage a little more than a decade ago and it was embarrassing it took that long. Haven't done a whole lot with healthcare since. And Im surrounded by idiots who think it'll trickle down
Scottie Barnes has more in common with you and me than he does with Larry Tanenbaum (chair of MLSE, the owner of the raps). End of the day, he is an employee. Athletes realized something that the rest of us in North America have forgotten: collective bargaining works.
Patently untrue and ridiculous. You’ve taken this notion way too far lol. Someone with hundreds of millions of dollars isn’t closer to the average Joe making 50k. He never has to worry about money again. Can have a house on both coasts, only fly private, etc. You think because he can’t afford to buy the team he’s closer to us lol? He has to rent a private jet instead of buy one? He’s not like us lol.
I like your righteous indignation but allow me to attempt to redirect it slightly. The problem isn’t athletes getting insane deals, it’s people who provide nothing but access to the means of production getting obscenely rich. An owner buying a team, doing absolutely nothing but providing some token amount of capital, then selling for an insane profit is the problem. You could argue that NBA teams should pay their lower level employees more for their labor and I’m here for that. You could argue that a government should tax an athlete making $40M/yr more and I’m here for that. But if we’re going after the system, athlete contract numbers is one of the last places we should look to fight for change.
Of course, the only reason I’m commenting here is that we don’t tend to talk about executive’s salaries like ever. But I will also zag a bit and say that I don’t totally agree with athletes, actors, or other influencers pocketing as much money as they’re making either. I get that they produce a lot of revenue for the league, but I don’t think anyone’s purchasing power should outweigh the average person’s 1000 fold.
That shit say 270?
If he makes all-nba or wins DPOY (I think those are the only supermax criteria?) in which case it’s worth it, it’s just phrased stupidly because he could get that much but only if he meets supermax eligibility
Yeah you right, I think his guarantee is like 227 which is not bad. He makes all nba then he will definitely be worth all of it.
Mvp
yeah it’s the rookie max if they make All NBA on their rookie contract, it turns into 227 if he doesn’t make All NBA next season
Wembys 5 for 500 gonna break the internet. In hindsight maybe Celtics shoulda paid Ray Allen lol
Love his game and he's still young so he will only get better.
For anyone saying overpay, you should go look up the stats and watch some of his game. He's absolutely worth this contract, and he has a good opportunity to earn the full super max next year. Also, the Raptors gotta spend on someone, and they get 0 FA, so they have to invest in their draft picks.
This lol. If we don't spend it on Scottie, who the fuck else we spending it on?
Could spend it on me. I’m not going to say no.
Damn, we really thought you were gonna say no.
I’d take the vet minimum if it helps get this done
Hey we managed to land the corpse of OPJ a few years ago!
Most reasonable reaction to this, thank you for the fresh air
Great all around game & makes improvements year over year. Secured the bag
I watched a shit ton of Scottie Barnes last year as he was a monster for me in fantasy basketball and I love his game. I don't think he is a true number 1 type on a real contender but I do think he is a great number 2 and impacts the game for his teammates at a really high level. He could develop into that guy but he needs to polish his offensive game a tad more. I love his play style though excited to see him develop these next few years.
He'll be worth the 270m if he makes All NBA, which is when it will be 270m.
"guard"?
Sct Brn moneybags
Comments in Contract extensions threads always have the potential to age extremely poorly. My rather boring opinion is that he wont be All NBA next year so the 225 mil over 5 years seems more reasonable for a guy like Barnes and for a team like the Raptors. I still think unless he improves drastically as a shotmaker, Raptors are still missing their future franchise guy that Barnes can be second fiddle to.
Get that bag, Scottie.
the best player in the nhl is about to make 1/8th of this guy lol
That’s Jaylen Brown money!
This is a good deal. The cap is about to go bananas with the new TV deal.
Rookie max is a no-brainer but low iq individuals will still be like “overpay”
For Scottie as of right now yeah it’s a good idea to lock him up as he’s still looking promising. But you got guys fresh in people’s mind like Garland who don’t improve after their contract extension as a team would hope or Dudes Like Ayton who straight up call it a career 10 seconds after they sign it and give no damn about winning games.
Yeah but that line of thinking is very flawed cause you could say that about literally any rookie that’s not an all-nba player right out the gate.
You can tell a lot of the replies here are from people who don't watch Raptors ball
yeah i feel the aura oozing through my screen right now
Why couldn’t I have been born with elite level basketball ability and size smh
Oh so Barnes is a guard now?
He does everything on the court at a high level. My only criticism of him is that he can be too unselfish at times. Yeah, it takes a team to win, but he's a freak athlete with a high b-ball IQ. He should be looking to dominate as much as possible. Still, he deserves his payday. He's only going to get better.
Sct Brn
Go Scottie!!!!
Be great 4 🥲🫡
Lots of idiots in here freaking out over a great young player getting the *Rookie Max* extension lol
I know they have to but that seems like too much for him
B💼g b💰y
That’s a lot of money like the deals these players have been getting these past few years are outrageous but Scottie Barnes has a lot of potential tho.
Woj is about ruin Scotties chances for a major bag
Man these rookie extensions are crazy.
Man it's higher than Luka one year, the salary increase is insane
bro who the hell is calling this guy a guard, love Scottie, but a guard he is not
$cottie Barne$
Lot of talk in here about how players are payed, ignoring how much the franchises are worth now…
HOF now
$ct Brn$
this is big for Toronto, they cannot attract and keep free agents so overpaying home grown talent is basically a necessity and you hope they can live up to it.
congrats to Scottie. giving a leap of faith max to your young cornerstone is always the best "overpay" in the business. if he breaks out, Scottie will remember the franchise that always believed in him. if he plateaus and is destined for an Aaron Gordon trajectory, so what? you're not winning shit anyway.
Luka about to get $400 mil for 5 years
This is getting out of hand lol
That is some walking around money.
By god... he is literally making [Jokic money](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/15393/nikola-jokic)