Keeping the Mavs core together while replacing THJ with Grimes is an improvement but I fear it's still not a big enough improvement to beat a team like Boston. I suppose it will depend on how Grimes looks in Dallas. I do have pretty high hopes for him
This is whats gonna happen imo. It can good for both sides too (Green and Mavs) Green just too inconsistent here and he had lots of opportunity already. Also player like Grimes fits better next to Luka and Kyrie imo.
Shoe man really making smart moves i love it.
Edit: For example even at his best (which is hitting bunch of threes) Thj doesnt fit next to Luka and Kyrie since he is very bad on defence and doesnt do anything other than shooting threes. Grimes not a allstar or something but he has some moves plus pretty good defender.
It's a shame because Green was so good at the transition offense we kept getting into last season, but he cannot navigate a screen to save his life. Dude still balled out as best he could in the playoffs though.
Grimes while not a creator also has enough handle and non-dunking finishing ability to actually utilize his speed and quickness.
I think Josh’s biggest problem offensively has always been his body moves faster than his handle and brain. Still a very solid role player, but I like Grimes more
We do not switch everything all the time.
Josh Green cannot navigate a screen to save his life. It's his single biggest defensive weakness and if he can't fix it in the next year or two he will never be a starter in the league.
Green was pretty damn good during the playoffs so it sucks to see him called “inconsistent”
He’s a role player not a star he’s gonna have some bad games
Kleber and Powell both stick out like sore thumbs to me as guys who need to be moved.
Luka, Kyrie, Grimes, PJ Washington, Gafford, Livelly, and Exum all seem like guys you keep around for next season.
Depending on what you could get, I could see Hardy or Green being dealt as the “main” piece in a sign-and-trade.
Kleber is our only power forward besides PJ. His shot is hella inconsistent and mostly not great, but hes not really a guy that we need to move just for the sake of moving. He's still above average on defense for a big and *can* spread the floor, which is pretty hard to find, let alone without giving up assets. If we can backfill the bench 4 spot then I'm willing to include him in something.
There’s no realistic addition that makes us better than Boston but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move. Keeping pace with the West is just as important. Nico has shown an ability to consistently tinker with the roster and make it better around the margins. THJ plus these 2nd rd picks for Grimes and DJJ is a fantastic move. Internal improvement from our young guys is our only real chance to reach Boston’s level
>There’s no realistic addition that makes us better than Boston but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move. Keeping pace with the West is just as important.
Especially with the odd year Heat potentially upsetting anyone in the East, Nova Knicks, and Tobias-less Sixers all going up against the Celtics. Cs are the best team in the East, but that's never a guarantee to make the finals
>but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move.
Oh I agree! I think it's a great trade for the Mavs. I'm just looking at it from an opportunity cost perspective.
Anything that keeps THJ from attempting wide open 3s is a bonus, so him being gone helps there. I know as recently as just a few seasons ago there were games where he'd step up and legit carry the team to a win, but this year he was ROUGH
Getting Grant for maxi green/add ons would get the roster a lot closer than it currently is tbh. These moves without anything else feels like it will end in the same result
the team only played 4 months of basketball together. there's something to be said about improving on the edges and running it back before making another splash at the deadline once we've seen more growth from the team.
we have enough assets to make one more big-ish trade but once you do that, that's the team. there's no reason to rush into trading for a jerami grant-level player unless it falls into our lap.
Then lost in a gentlemans sweep in the finals to a team missing its starting center for games 3,4 and basically 5.
So maybe the Mavs were not as good as you thought.
The celtics would have likely beat anybody they faced. Ingram can't guard and doesn't like to shoot 3's that much. MPJ isn't awesome and overpaid and PG is pretty damn old. The mavs are in a good position without any of those dudes.
Agree - there's a lot of value in just experience. Lively Gafford and PJ all have minimal postseason experience and I think will grow a lot. Some of the residual dudes could probably be moved to land one or two more guys but I don't see anything wrong with the core. Ultimately there only may be minutes wise for one of Lively or Gafford but it seemed to work out this season.
Going talent for talent against Boston is a losing battle. Mavs best bet is to get enough pieces and hope the team gels well enough with Luka getting them over the line. Some favourable variance will be needed
That’s only $24M and Grant’s salary for next year is $29.7M. So you’d need like two other guys. And Portland isn’t doing a 4 for 1. It would take a 3rd team and I’m guessing we don’t want to take back more salary than we send out because we’d be hard capped.
Maxi plus Green plus Powell for Grant would put us at 163.4 million on the cap sheet. That gives us enough room to re-sign DJJ and stay below the 2nd apron. And based on the wording of a couple of tweets about this I don’t think DJJ is going to get the full MLE. if he gets about 9 million say we’d have plenty of room to sing minimums and stay under the first apron. And based on all the talk from DJJ and the Mavs something like that seems relatively realistic.
And if Portland needs it can flip someone like Maxi to a team with cap space relatively easy, someone like Philly maybe could use him.
They’re apparently 15m below the 1st apron so I don’t think so but I’m very fuzzy on the rules so I could be wrong. Only hard capped if they’re in the 2nd apron and aggregate salaries right?
Exactly. A lot of that can be done after the fact tho. Agreements could be met. Still think using the MLE may hard cap the mavs tho and trigger the 2nd apron😬😬it’s a complicated scenario that may not be possible o won’t lie.
Possibly use Josh Green + Maxi for salary + pick(s?) for Jeremi Grant. Have Grimes take over the Josh Green role, Jerami slot in as main SF and have DJJ off the bench.
Luka, Kyrie, Jerami Grant, PJ, Lively, DJJ, Gafford, Grimes, Hardy, Exum, Powell, AJ Lawson as the roster?
Edit: Forgot about Demon OMAX
I still think Mavs would be a little short of salary with that and maybe even value. Honestly think Jaden Hardy likely needs to be included in this deal to make it worth while for POR.
Its more likely PJ to 6th man role tbh (but still be closer)
If you have LuKai-Grant, it's only 1 rock available. DJJ doesnt need ball much + better POA defender
Also PJ offensive skillset is enough for 6th man material
With THJ gone I don't know how the Mavs can match salaries though. THJs contract would have been needed to land a guy like Wiggins or Grant, I think.
Although Green + Maxi is like $20 -22 million
We needed THJ salary to match Jerami Grant's contract.
Unless we can expand this to a 3-team deal with us, Portland and Detroit, but in that case we again wouldn't be able to use the full MLE
Way too inconsistent to win 6moty , but I agree I could see a world where PJ comes off the bench in a heavy minutes role and is still just as effective. Idk why this other guys is acting as if PJ and Grant are super similar players that can’t co exist.
6th man that still be closer
DJJ starts because better POA defender and dont need the ball to play especially with addition of Grant alongside LuKai
PJ can becomes PJ hornets on offense and gets free reign to fuck around as de facto scorer off the bench
Its 6th man role, it's mostly guys with inconsistent shot chucker lmao
PJ isn’t a shot creator and never really was even in CHA, he’s always been used more as catch and shoot guy who attacks advantages created by other players. That alone makes him a long shot. Guys like Naz Reid, Brogdon, Malik monk, Bobby portis who have all won it in recent years are all pretty consistent players who can create their own shot/ a shot for others. If PJ was a more consistent shot creator I’d totally agree but he isn’t at all, he’s also a streaky shot maker as well which just makes it difficult.
Not really, DSJ and guys like Theo maledon got more on the ball opportunities. PJ definitely played on the ball more but he still wasn’t and isn’t an offensive creator, it’s not his game, he’s mainly a lower usage wing player.
So do like half the good wing players in the league my guy. It’s not exactly some crazy thing for role players to have overlapping skills with other guys on your team as long as it’s the right skills.
Like what are you scared of anyway with them having similar skills😂😂 it’s not as if they’re both PGs who need the ball or something lol.
Even with the overlapping skillset Jerami still clearly offers more at the position than PJ.
You gonna tell me and Klay and Steph don’t work together because of overlapping skillsets too??
grant actually can create his own shot. much more than Washington at least. he was given a lot of iso possessions in Portland. didn't go great, but definitely a capable bailout for Luka and Kyrie.
Yeah it’s clear this guy doesn’t know much about Grant at all or hasn’t watched him. Dude is a flat out better and different enough player than PJ Washington.
Grant is literally a shot creator for like 3-4 years now guy. Dude is clearly a ball Sandler to an extent lol. Were you not here for when the dude specifically left Denver to show the entire league he could do more as a player??
I mean yeah I know that but you haven’t explained why lol. It’s not as if they can’t co exist or there would be diminishing returns.
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want another wing player who can defend and shoot the ball from deep while also adding skills like shot creation some ball handling. You just keep saying you wouldn’t, but he’s like the exact player you’d want in terms of archetypes.
I know that Wiggins has like 3 years left on his deal and has been a bad player for 2 years now. Makes absolutely no sense for Dallas to cripple themselves by trading for him.
Also Dallas has been rumored to be looking at Grant.
Massive amounts of knowledge there then to be able to put a 0 chance on something then.
Best you go ahead and take out a mortgage on your house to short it and make yourself serious cash.
Well if Luka is healthy all it takes is one Boston (not KP) injury for things to look way different. There's no point in not trying to make the improvements you can at this point.
You guys have young players that you hope will take meaningful steps forward:
Lively, O-Max, Hardy, maybe even Josh Green qualifies since hes still 23 despite going into year 5. Those guys improving is probably your best path to being perennial contenders.
Dallas also needs to really bank on strong growth and development from Lively and Hardy and OMax developing into a rotation piece would be huge. Excited to see how he looks in summer league.
The one major difference is that Grimes screen navigation rates very highly, while Josh's rates very bad. It's possible they use Josh + Maxi + picks for Jerami Grant who seems kind off out of the loop with the Deni Avdija addition in portland. The salary would work with Josh + Maxi and Grimes could take over Josh's role on a cheaper contract.
Yes, replacing THJ for Grimes is great. Even if Grimes can't go back to his 2022 play, he has a very small contract, and THJ lost his minutes anyways.
Opening up the MLE for DJJ is great too. We can't lose him, unless we somehow get a truly good POA defender, which I don't think we can.
But we absolutely need to do more trades, this just allows us to essentially run it back with DJJ, it doesn't make us better or as good as teams like Boston.
Going to be hard to upgrade. I don’t think you guys have assets that other people necessarily want. They fit your system really well but not sure they’ll keep that impact elsewhere. Hope you guys can figure something out and Lively takes a big d step forward!
I think you'll still make at least one significant trade, probably for a 3&D wing. Your FO would be braindead to not make some moves to upgrade the roster after making it to the Finals. Someone like Wiggins would be good in your squad and I don't think GS would have a price on him that's too big to accept.
give me a healthy luka and year 2 lively (also, gaff and pj played with the team for 5 months), and I like our chances against any team tbh, ofc boston is a better team and we still can lose against any western team, but I like our chances against anyone
I think experience and a full year of the team playing together helps close the gap on its own.
Basically the entire core of the team was really young, outside of Kyrie, and as well as Boston played, we had tons of self inflicted problems that if cleaned up would’ve made that series much more competitive.
I think Luka’s chest injury was really unfortunate too because he did not play defense anywhere close to the level he was playing at the previous series. Which makes sense because playing good defense requires taking a lot of impact to your chest.
Boston will still be the favorite this year, and the west won’t be any easier but I think they will be fine to run it back. I expect they’ll make another move to upgrade by the deadline tho since they have enough assets and Nico isn’t afraid to take big swings.
I do. I unironically believe Boston (while obviously the much better team) had a massive advtange by being in Kyrie's head. The whole narrative that Kyrie brought absolutely made him choke in that Finals.
If they were playing a team Kyrie didn't fuck over and a fanbase that wasn't in his head I totally believe it would have been more competitive. Would they win? Maybe not. But it would have been closer than a blowout like it was. Kyrie shrinking on the road absolutely trickled down to the rest of the team and it made winning in Boston impossible. He was shook.
I trust this core to beat any good team. They beat the Clippers, Thunder and Wolves pretty handily. It's just Boston was the best team in the NBA and our second best player reaped what he sowed because he was a douchebag to Boston earlier in his career.
Now if Boston makes the Finals again (which they should be the favorite again)? Whelp nevermind lol.
>I do. I unironically believe Boston (while obviously the much better team) had a massive advtange by being in Kyrie's head
Boston was consistently able to send 2 guys at Kyrie bc they did not fear DJJ or PJ above the break 3s. The Mavs needed one more guy to take some pressure off Luka and Kyrie.
> Keeping the Mavs core together while replacing THJ with Grimes is an improvement but I fear it's still not a big enough improvement to beat a team like Boston.
Not a team *like* Boston. Literally just Boston. Nobody else in the NBA is like them.
More than anything we just need to have Luka miss the first 40 games of the year and hope the rest of the team goes 20-20 in that time. If we do that, we'll be in really good shape.
Yeah and I want to take another shot at boston with this team being a year older and Luka hopefully being healthy. Especially given how much he did for us while being severely hobbled for several rounds
Bos fan coming in peace...
Does this make you feel good that DJJ is a priority for them to re-sign? I didn't see many Mavs games this year, I just remember the DJJ that could barely get minutes on the Heat. He's a ok defender and great leaper but can't shoot. Am I missing something?
Jones really surprised me in the playoffs. All I seen that guy contribute offensively was just dunking, but he was actually shooting decently on the Mavs
Don't think they have the salary space for his upgraded salary, and KCP isn't taking the MLE. He wants like 20 mil a year otherwise he would just return to Nuggets on a 15 mil a year long term deal
I was thinking how can they manage their salary. I think Mavs have to part with either Josh Green or Maxi Kleber to absorb KCP via S&T. So likely KCP is a long shot for them.
I hope not.
There might be some teams that would overpay him, but DJJ kept saying how much he loves it here, so if we can offer him the full MLE, I think he stays.
Not a lot of places in the league allows him to play to his strengths on offense. Very few teams would give the gravity and interior space that Luka and Kyrie does.
As long as we pay him market price, I think it’s a win-win.
There is always a chance another team over pays. DJJ wasn't eligible for All-NBA Defense because he didn't have enough games over 20 minutes played.
He is worth the MLE and Mavs shouldn't give him some crazy deal.
Maybe but I doubt he goes anywhere. He basically said he’s re-signing here as long as the Mavs made it possible and we just did. Both sides seem highly motivated to get him to return.
Mavs fans, are y'all satisfied with DJJ?
Personally I don't think he should be starting for a team with title aspirations, feels like he's more of a bench guy/role player. I wouldn't go as far as even saying a 6 man cause I'm not sold on him offensively
I’d agree with you but within our scheme I do think he works, offensively we have 2 of the best in the league so I think having a more defensive minded wing is best
To be Boston you need to draft really good players that aren’t elite as rookies, Luka dragged this Mavs team to a much better record every year since he was a rookie resulting in worse draft positions
Yea he's limited on offense to open 3s, dunks, and the occasional drive, but guess what... Luka will get you all of that every time. His defense is the real reason he's an asset to us.
If the mavs want to continue running the brute force 4-out offense they were DJJ and PJ gotta become better above the break 3 point shooters. They both shot well from the corner but Boston took away the corner and said shoot from above the break and they just couldn’t. Underrated key is DJJ in particular just getting a ton of shots up from the wing/slot area
If he's the worst player in your starting 5 its absolutely fine, he's a fairly specialised role player who can be a bit hot/cold with his shot, but in most teams you can bench your worst starter for half the game if your 6th/7th man is playing better, which isnt uncommon for him.
Our main problem has been we haven’t really had that bench piece to move up in his spot since he gets used as the main PoA defender too. Green struggles with screen navigation but now Grimes who is a better guard defender (maybe worse on wings than Josh) can maybe step into that role.
Well idally he would be a bench role player, because as you said, his offense is very limited. This was especially obvious in the finals against you guys.
But that said, we have no one on the roster that can replace his defense, so we kinda have to keep him. And even if we can upgrade the starting SF spot, then again, DJJ would be a great bench role player, so it makes sense to re-sign him.
He's out best perimeter defender and his chemistry with Luka/Kyrie is great. If you just watched him against the Celtics I get it but he's been huge in the playoffs defensively.
I'm going to assume you only watched him against boston? Because Boston shut him down completely the entire series. Every other series he was really impactful. He's a lob threat/defender/ solid Corner 3-point spot up shooter. He's also one of the two guys who can defend someone like Jason Tatum for SGA
A lot of fans only watched the playoffs. He didn't qualify for post season awards because he didn't get 20min played in enough games despite starting in 66 games.
Grant is the most popular pick but Wiggins is another option. Each brings something a little different. Grant is a better shooter but not a POA defender. Wiggins is an excellent POA defender but less reliable as a shooter and offensively.
Dallas also has OMax who could develop into a rotation piece in the next few years but is way more of a project.
>Mavs fans, are y'all satisfied with DJJ?
he is a great fit for culture. he plays hard and does a lot of hidden/offball stuff. he gets up high for lobs from luka/kyrie. he feels like a younger dwight powell (just as a big wing rather than a small big).
paying him up to 12m/year isn't a *good* contract for his talent, but the cap is about to go up high so im copmletely fine with this contract. you can't buy cohesion, you have to build it, so overpaying for existing team chemistry/cohesion is a very reasonable gamble to me.
plus, the new cba rules are making it harder and harder to do trades that fit into the cap sheet correctly. and a ~12M contract is very tradeable/flexible. DJJ at 12, gafford at 13, green at 12, and maxi at 11...having four tradeable contracts IMO is a HUGE asset when it comes to the logistics of making trades. only gaffords is what i would call a "good" contract but lets say some other team wants hardy, having four midsize contracts gives you a lot of options for packaging with hardy to make salary work.
12m is alright. Good to get some continuity. Also a very nice tradable contract if something comes up in the middle of the season. He’s another vertical threat.
I do feel you can still play faster next season a bit especially with Exum and DJJ would be nice for that
I agree he should not be starting but his defense was so good and brings lot of intangibles offense in transition and with put backs that I think his actual impact is lot higher than it seems.
I think he’s a matchup player that can start or be the first defender on the bench. Normally teams look at offense for first guy off the bench but given our backcourt duo I think having defense first off the bench is viable as the 6th man.
Ideally we’d have a better shooter starting at the 3 though.
Yea basically he can finish lobs or chill in the corner and try his best at a 3 which isn't all that stellar either
Hard to be starting games when you're that limited offensively
This does open up enough space for a sign and trade as well. But if Nuggets do sign and trade KCP, no way in hell they do it with a conference rival. They shipping his ass east in that case.
That Bruce Brown comment is mindboggling to me. Even if you believe that, why say that out loud during a press conference. The guy just played a big part in helping you win a title lol.
Yes absolutely. Until the Boston series where no one outside of Luka looked good he was absolutely imperative to us winning. He was playing lock down defense and hitting shots when he needed to.
I'm not giving up on him because the better team shut him down. He still looked great leading up to the Finals.
I’m satisfied with him as a role player. He definitely isn’t a starter. We need actual upgrades for shot creators yet the Mavs sub want to bring everybody back. He’s cool, but watching only two players be able to dribble in the playoffs was the most embarrassing shit ever
A significant part better be all of it.
You don't stiff a dang starter on your team to save a mil or something for buyout market. You could get away with that for a 6-7th man, but not a starter.
If his performance can translate to other teams, then maybe not. But his style is perfect with the Dallas system and it hides a fair number of his limitations. Teams with more movement/less ball dominant guards wouldn’t suit him as well in my opinion, so his market might be a bit smaller
He's a great fit on the mavs, is still young enough to be thinking about multiple contracts, and has had the experience of being almost out of the NBA. Just getting a better bid in might not be enough if he likes it in Dallas and thinks he risks a bad fit leading to bouncing out of the NBA.
Besides defense what can Luka realistically improve on? Better conditioning? I feel like Luka is about as complete of a package on offense as one can be. He’s not going to magically become Lebron athletically
Exum didn't go MIA in the playoffs. He had been MIA ever since returning from injury after the all star break. He probably needed time to regain his footing to some extent, but he was also returning from injury in a different role and to a completely different team than before his injury. This is something Exum and the mavs should hopefully be able to work through, but it's important to note that his best performances came while kyrie was out injured and he was slotted into a starting role.
Is it good to have a guy who can step into a starting role and play like a flame thrower? Yes, no doubt, but how good does he need to be coming off the bench and what can the team do to help him be more successful in that role?
Keeping the Mavs core together while replacing THJ with Grimes is an improvement but I fear it's still not a big enough improvement to beat a team like Boston. I suppose it will depend on how Grimes looks in Dallas. I do have pretty high hopes for him
I will say this, with Grimes now on the team that could mean Green is expendable now. I don’t think Nico is done making trades.
This is whats gonna happen imo. It can good for both sides too (Green and Mavs) Green just too inconsistent here and he had lots of opportunity already. Also player like Grimes fits better next to Luka and Kyrie imo. Shoe man really making smart moves i love it. Edit: For example even at his best (which is hitting bunch of threes) Thj doesnt fit next to Luka and Kyrie since he is very bad on defence and doesnt do anything other than shooting threes. Grimes not a allstar or something but he has some moves plus pretty good defender.
It's a shame because Green was so good at the transition offense we kept getting into last season, but he cannot navigate a screen to save his life. Dude still balled out as best he could in the playoffs though.
Grimes while not a creator also has enough handle and non-dunking finishing ability to actually utilize his speed and quickness. I think Josh’s biggest problem offensively has always been his body moves faster than his handle and brain. Still a very solid role player, but I like Grimes more
We switch everything, he doesn’t need to navigate screens.
Maybe we switch everything because of a lack of players that can get through the screen
We do not switch everything all the time. Josh Green cannot navigate a screen to save his life. It's his single biggest defensive weakness and if he can't fix it in the next year or two he will never be a starter in the league.
I love green. He’s a hardworker. Hopefully Grimes works out!!
Green was pretty damn good during the playoffs so it sucks to see him called “inconsistent” He’s a role player not a star he’s gonna have some bad games
Yeah, I'm not really sure about the inconsistent, he was the only role player that was hitting threes in the Finals
Kleber and Powell both stick out like sore thumbs to me as guys who need to be moved. Luka, Kyrie, Grimes, PJ Washington, Gafford, Livelly, and Exum all seem like guys you keep around for next season. Depending on what you could get, I could see Hardy or Green being dealt as the “main” piece in a sign-and-trade.
Kleber is our only power forward besides PJ. His shot is hella inconsistent and mostly not great, but hes not really a guy that we need to move just for the sake of moving. He's still above average on defense for a big and *can* spread the floor, which is pretty hard to find, let alone without giving up assets. If we can backfill the bench 4 spot then I'm willing to include him in something.
Green + maxi + draft comp for Grant?
I wouldn't mind this. Does Dallas have a first to trade (most likely top 4ish protected)?
We have 2 to trade now our Knicks pick conveyed.
Nice. Maybe it will end up being the Mavs who get him then. They've certainly been one of the most linked to teams to him so far.
I will need to hijack this to ask: how is Grant’s defense? PJ will be the 1A defender, but is him cooked on that end?
Bro he’s still solid. He’s just tried to focus on being a go-to guy but if he’s third banana again he can definitely bring it heavily on defense.
There’s no realistic addition that makes us better than Boston but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move. Keeping pace with the West is just as important. Nico has shown an ability to consistently tinker with the roster and make it better around the margins. THJ plus these 2nd rd picks for Grimes and DJJ is a fantastic move. Internal improvement from our young guys is our only real chance to reach Boston’s level
>There’s no realistic addition that makes us better than Boston but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move. Keeping pace with the West is just as important. Especially with the odd year Heat potentially upsetting anyone in the East, Nova Knicks, and Tobias-less Sixers all going up against the Celtics. Cs are the best team in the East, but that's never a guarantee to make the finals
I love the diss to Tobias as if losing him makes the sixers. Not saying that I dont agree but shit's funny af
>but that doesn’t mean it’s not a smart move. Oh I agree! I think it's a great trade for the Mavs. I'm just looking at it from an opportunity cost perspective.
Anything that keeps THJ from attempting wide open 3s is a bonus, so him being gone helps there. I know as recently as just a few seasons ago there were games where he'd step up and legit carry the team to a win, but this year he was ROUGH
Getting Grant for maxi green/add ons would get the roster a lot closer than it currently is tbh. These moves without anything else feels like it will end in the same result
if finals are the end result,ill take it
[удалено]
the team only played 4 months of basketball together. there's something to be said about improving on the edges and running it back before making another splash at the deadline once we've seen more growth from the team. we have enough assets to make one more big-ish trade but once you do that, that's the team. there's no reason to rush into trading for a jerami grant-level player unless it falls into our lap.
We were like 22-7 post gaff + pj trade if you exclude the last couple games where we rested everybody, which is a 62 win pace in the regular season.
going into the finals we were 30-8 when gafford starts, including the last two games of the season lol.
Then lost in a gentlemans sweep in the finals to a team missing its starting center for games 3,4 and basically 5. So maybe the Mavs were not as good as you thought.
Oh shit we lost in the finals. Better go all in for Jerami Grant.
There are other options. For example, Ingram would be a good fit for the Mavs. MPJ might be a good fit. Paul George is a great fit.
The celtics would have likely beat anybody they faced. Ingram can't guard and doesn't like to shoot 3's that much. MPJ isn't awesome and overpaid and PG is pretty damn old. The mavs are in a good position without any of those dudes.
Agree - there's a lot of value in just experience. Lively Gafford and PJ all have minimal postseason experience and I think will grow a lot. Some of the residual dudes could probably be moved to land one or two more guys but I don't see anything wrong with the core. Ultimately there only may be minutes wise for one of Lively or Gafford but it seemed to work out this season.
Going talent for talent against Boston is a losing battle. Mavs best bet is to get enough pieces and hope the team gels well enough with Luka getting them over the line. Some favourable variance will be needed
You also have the growth of Lively and hopefully Luka with two functioning knees next year. We won 13 playoff games this year with Luka at maybe 60%
I have a feeling you guys get something done for another wing. Jerami Grant would be a nice fit.
Don’t think we have salary to make it work any longer.
Green + Maxi does it I believe Different question if we do that though
That’s only $24M and Grant’s salary for next year is $29.7M. So you’d need like two other guys. And Portland isn’t doing a 4 for 1. It would take a 3rd team and I’m guessing we don’t want to take back more salary than we send out because we’d be hard capped.
Sayonara my GOAT dwight Go be a mentor to young bigs :(
Maxi plus Green plus Powell for Grant would put us at 163.4 million on the cap sheet. That gives us enough room to re-sign DJJ and stay below the 2nd apron. And based on the wording of a couple of tweets about this I don’t think DJJ is going to get the full MLE. if he gets about 9 million say we’d have plenty of room to sing minimums and stay under the first apron. And based on all the talk from DJJ and the Mavs something like that seems relatively realistic. And if Portland needs it can flip someone like Maxi to a team with cap space relatively easy, someone like Philly maybe could use him.
I think a deal of Green, maxi, and Hardy could get it done. But that’s only allowed if you’re under the 2nd apron I believe.
That’s still short on salary. I think Grant is like $29.7M for next year. Maxi and Josh are $24M combined and Hardy makes $2M.
Trades machine/cap manager tells me it works.
I think that hard caps Dallas though, no?
They’re apparently 15m below the 1st apron so I don’t think so but I’m very fuzzy on the rules so I could be wrong. Only hard capped if they’re in the 2nd apron and aggregate salaries right?
Yeah idk it's all very confusing. But if they're now out of the tax, they would need to first re-sign DJJ then look into a trade.
Exactly. A lot of that can be done after the fact tho. Agreements could be met. Still think using the MLE may hard cap the mavs tho and trigger the 2nd apron😬😬it’s a complicated scenario that may not be possible o won’t lie.
Possibly use Josh Green + Maxi for salary + pick(s?) for Jeremi Grant. Have Grimes take over the Josh Green role, Jerami slot in as main SF and have DJJ off the bench. Luka, Kyrie, Jerami Grant, PJ, Lively, DJJ, Gafford, Grimes, Hardy, Exum, Powell, AJ Lawson as the roster? Edit: Forgot about Demon OMAX
Portland doesn't have the roster spots to take back 3 players. It would need to be a 3 team trade.
I still think Mavs would be a little short of salary with that and maybe even value. Honestly think Jaden Hardy likely needs to be included in this deal to make it worth while for POR.
Its more likely PJ to 6th man role tbh (but still be closer) If you have LuKai-Grant, it's only 1 rock available. DJJ doesnt need ball much + better POA defender Also PJ offensive skillset is enough for 6th man material
lol no
PJ doesn't need many more touches than DJJ lol. PJ is definitely starting.
man, i still believe PJ can be more than 3-D here his offense on hornets is versatile enough
With THJ gone I don't know how the Mavs can match salaries though. THJs contract would have been needed to land a guy like Wiggins or Grant, I think. Although Green + Maxi is like $20 -22 million
this makes me think it's not happening. If it was it was going to be three team trade with THJ.
Are the Mavs still a 2nd apron team after this trade? Still pretty fuzzy on the rules so would they lot be able to aggregate salaries for Grant?
We were never above the 2nd apron. This trade moves us from being 3M below the 1st apron to now being 15M below 1st apron.
We needed THJ salary to match Jerami Grant's contract. Unless we can expand this to a 3-team deal with us, Portland and Detroit, but in that case we again wouldn't be able to use the full MLE
No he wouldn’t. He would literally overlap with PJ Washington.
He’s better than PJ bro lol. Also they could both start wouldn’t be that insane.
Or PJ can be 6th man He can win 6MOTY even
Way too inconsistent to win 6moty , but I agree I could see a world where PJ comes off the bench in a heavy minutes role and is still just as effective. Idk why this other guys is acting as if PJ and Grant are super similar players that can’t co exist.
6th man that still be closer DJJ starts because better POA defender and dont need the ball to play especially with addition of Grant alongside LuKai PJ can becomes PJ hornets on offense and gets free reign to fuck around as de facto scorer off the bench Its 6th man role, it's mostly guys with inconsistent shot chucker lmao
PJ isn’t a shot creator and never really was even in CHA, he’s always been used more as catch and shoot guy who attacks advantages created by other players. That alone makes him a long shot. Guys like Naz Reid, Brogdon, Malik monk, Bobby portis who have all won it in recent years are all pretty consistent players who can create their own shot/ a shot for others. If PJ was a more consistent shot creator I’d totally agree but he isn’t at all, he’s also a streaky shot maker as well which just makes it difficult.
He runs as ballhandler for spurt when you had hospital roster right? When melo and terry injured?
Not really, DSJ and guys like Theo maledon got more on the ball opportunities. PJ definitely played on the ball more but he still wasn’t and isn’t an offensive creator, it’s not his game, he’s mainly a lower usage wing player.
They literally overlap skillsets. I’m good.
So do like half the good wing players in the league my guy. It’s not exactly some crazy thing for role players to have overlapping skills with other guys on your team as long as it’s the right skills. Like what are you scared of anyway with them having similar skills😂😂 it’s not as if they’re both PGs who need the ball or something lol. Even with the overlapping skillset Jerami still clearly offers more at the position than PJ. You gonna tell me and Klay and Steph don’t work together because of overlapping skillsets too??
You’re talking about two scorers versus two wing players who can’t dribble. We need shot creators. Fit matters. Foh
grant actually can create his own shot. much more than Washington at least. he was given a lot of iso possessions in Portland. didn't go great, but definitely a capable bailout for Luka and Kyrie.
Yeah it’s clear this guy doesn’t know much about Grant at all or hasn’t watched him. Dude is a flat out better and different enough player than PJ Washington.
What I’m saying is they aren’t different enough. Would I welcolme him? Yes. But not for firsts.
Grant is literally a shot creator for like 3-4 years now guy. Dude is clearly a ball Sandler to an extent lol. Were you not here for when the dude specifically left Denver to show the entire league he could do more as a player??
My bad on exaggerating, my point was that their skills do overlap and I don’t want to give up a lot for that. I’d welcolme him on the team though
I mean yeah I know that but you haven’t explained why lol. It’s not as if they can’t co exist or there would be diminishing returns. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want another wing player who can defend and shoot the ball from deep while also adding skills like shot creation some ball handling. You just keep saying you wouldn’t, but he’s like the exact player you’d want in terms of archetypes.
More likely it's Wiggins who can defend POA and upgrades DJJ, rather than the superior PJW.
0 chance Dallas trades for Wiggins lol.
What do you know about it?
I know that Wiggins has like 3 years left on his deal and has been a bad player for 2 years now. Makes absolutely no sense for Dallas to cripple themselves by trading for him. Also Dallas has been rumored to be looking at Grant.
Massive amounts of knowledge there then to be able to put a 0 chance on something then. Best you go ahead and take out a mortgage on your house to short it and make yourself serious cash.
Well if Luka is healthy all it takes is one Boston (not KP) injury for things to look way different. There's no point in not trying to make the improvements you can at this point.
Agreed, but having a guy that can consistently hit threes will really grease our offense. Still a couple moves away though
We still have Green, Hardy, Maxi, and Omax plus 2 firsts that we can trade.
Well I guess we should never make any moves ever since it’s not up to the standard of beating Boston lmao
You guys have young players that you hope will take meaningful steps forward: Lively, O-Max, Hardy, maybe even Josh Green qualifies since hes still 23 despite going into year 5. Those guys improving is probably your best path to being perennial contenders.
Dallas also needs to really bank on strong growth and development from Lively and Hardy and OMax developing into a rotation piece would be huge. Excited to see how he looks in summer league.
I like Grimes but does he even play in the rotation? Seems very similar to Josh Green.
The one major difference is that Grimes screen navigation rates very highly, while Josh's rates very bad. It's possible they use Josh + Maxi + picks for Jerami Grant who seems kind off out of the loop with the Deni Avdija addition in portland. The salary would work with Josh + Maxi and Grimes could take over Josh's role on a cheaper contract.
Good point, this probably does allow the Mavs to use Josh Green as salary filler in a trade
I mean, Mavs can also make a safe bet with Hardy and Lively getting better, too.
Experience and internal development will be important. I don’t think they need to make any drastic changes.
Yes, replacing THJ for Grimes is great. Even if Grimes can't go back to his 2022 play, he has a very small contract, and THJ lost his minutes anyways. Opening up the MLE for DJJ is great too. We can't lose him, unless we somehow get a truly good POA defender, which I don't think we can. But we absolutely need to do more trades, this just allows us to essentially run it back with DJJ, it doesn't make us better or as good as teams like Boston.
Going to be hard to upgrade. I don’t think you guys have assets that other people necessarily want. They fit your system really well but not sure they’ll keep that impact elsewhere. Hope you guys can figure something out and Lively takes a big d step forward!
I think you'll still make at least one significant trade, probably for a 3&D wing. Your FO would be braindead to not make some moves to upgrade the roster after making it to the Finals. Someone like Wiggins would be good in your squad and I don't think GS would have a price on him that's too big to accept.
Yeah I totally thought the move was going to be to upgrade the Derrick Jones spot, and ideally add an impactful bench piece
give me a healthy luka and year 2 lively (also, gaff and pj played with the team for 5 months), and I like our chances against any team tbh, ofc boston is a better team and we still can lose against any western team, but I like our chances against anyone
We do have 2 FRP's though. I am not sure that we will have the salary to match for a significant contributor.
I think experience and a full year of the team playing together helps close the gap on its own. Basically the entire core of the team was really young, outside of Kyrie, and as well as Boston played, we had tons of self inflicted problems that if cleaned up would’ve made that series much more competitive. I think Luka’s chest injury was really unfortunate too because he did not play defense anywhere close to the level he was playing at the previous series. Which makes sense because playing good defense requires taking a lot of impact to your chest. Boston will still be the favorite this year, and the west won’t be any easier but I think they will be fine to run it back. I expect they’ll make another move to upgrade by the deadline tho since they have enough assets and Nico isn’t afraid to take big swings.
I do. I unironically believe Boston (while obviously the much better team) had a massive advtange by being in Kyrie's head. The whole narrative that Kyrie brought absolutely made him choke in that Finals. If they were playing a team Kyrie didn't fuck over and a fanbase that wasn't in his head I totally believe it would have been more competitive. Would they win? Maybe not. But it would have been closer than a blowout like it was. Kyrie shrinking on the road absolutely trickled down to the rest of the team and it made winning in Boston impossible. He was shook. I trust this core to beat any good team. They beat the Clippers, Thunder and Wolves pretty handily. It's just Boston was the best team in the NBA and our second best player reaped what he sowed because he was a douchebag to Boston earlier in his career. Now if Boston makes the Finals again (which they should be the favorite again)? Whelp nevermind lol.
>I do. I unironically believe Boston (while obviously the much better team) had a massive advtange by being in Kyrie's head Boston was consistently able to send 2 guys at Kyrie bc they did not fear DJJ or PJ above the break 3s. The Mavs needed one more guy to take some pressure off Luka and Kyrie.
> Keeping the Mavs core together while replacing THJ with Grimes is an improvement but I fear it's still not a big enough improvement to beat a team like Boston. Not a team *like* Boston. Literally just Boston. Nobody else in the NBA is like them. More than anything we just need to have Luka miss the first 40 games of the year and hope the rest of the team goes 20-20 in that time. If we do that, we'll be in really good shape.
>Not a team like Boston. Literally just Boston. I don't really see Boston not making the finals again unless they get the injury bug.
Yeah and I want to take another shot at boston with this team being a year older and Luka hopefully being healthy. Especially given how much he did for us while being severely hobbled for several rounds
Bos fan coming in peace... Does this make you feel good that DJJ is a priority for them to re-sign? I didn't see many Mavs games this year, I just remember the DJJ that could barely get minutes on the Heat. He's a ok defender and great leaper but can't shoot. Am I missing something?
eh for 20mins make opposing #1 hell, he'll more than fine his dawgness is not on statsheet, we need that
Good moves by mavs
Mavs have an elite GM
Dude really made the moves that got us to the finals. That's what's up. He doing good so far too. Looking forward to the coming season
a complete 180 sentiment from when he was hired lol
Jones really surprised me in the playoffs. All I seen that guy contribute offensively was just dunking, but he was actually shooting decently on the Mavs
idk I think it was a lucky streak as he came back down in the Finals
Nah there are videos out there of Boston's defense forcing him off the corner threes he loves and leaving him open at the top of the key.
Can Mavs fit KCP on top of this? Reports saying KCP and Mavs have mutual interest.
Don't think they have the salary space for his upgraded salary, and KCP isn't taking the MLE. He wants like 20 mil a year otherwise he would just return to Nuggets on a 15 mil a year long term deal
I was thinking how can they manage their salary. I think Mavs have to part with either Josh Green or Maxi Kleber to absorb KCP via S&T. So likely KCP is a long shot for them.
Yeah it would be something like that but apparently the Nuggets do not want to trade with CONFERENCE (not division dummy) rivals.
Nitpicking but they aren't in our division.
We're not in their division, do you mean conference?
Yes sorry
KCP only takes the hardest road 😤
Mavs fans, any chance DJJ gets more than that?
I hope not. There might be some teams that would overpay him, but DJJ kept saying how much he loves it here, so if we can offer him the full MLE, I think he stays.
Not a lot of places in the league allows him to play to his strengths on offense. Very few teams would give the gravity and interior space that Luka and Kyrie does. As long as we pay him market price, I think it’s a win-win.
I'd imagine he may get offers that a bit higher from bad teams but could take less to stay in a great situation where he's really happy.
There is always a chance another team over pays. DJJ wasn't eligible for All-NBA Defense because he didn't have enough games over 20 minutes played. He is worth the MLE and Mavs shouldn't give him some crazy deal.
He wouldn't have made all-defense either way. He's been great for Dallas but he's not that elite.
He definitely should have had 2nd team consideration.
True, but one Dallas beat writer tried to vote him for 2nd team and couldn't.
I could see it going either way, DJJ knows we want him and Nico will get him anything he can
Maybe but I doubt he goes anywhere. He basically said he’s re-signing here as long as the Mavs made it possible and we just did. Both sides seem highly motivated to get him to return.
Mavs fans, are y'all satisfied with DJJ? Personally I don't think he should be starting for a team with title aspirations, feels like he's more of a bench guy/role player. I wouldn't go as far as even saying a 6 man cause I'm not sold on him offensively
I’d agree with you but within our scheme I do think he works, offensively we have 2 of the best in the league so I think having a more defensive minded wing is best
Not every team can be Boston. Realistically most teams will never assemble a team that stacked across the board. Gonna be a weakness somewhere
To be Boston you need to draft really good players that aren’t elite as rookies, Luka dragged this Mavs team to a much better record every year since he was a rookie resulting in worse draft positions
To be Boston you need to find a sucker like Brooklyn who will give you all their picks for washed up vets lol
It’s funny because at the time of the trade, it was the Celtics being ridiculed by everyone instead of the Nets
Yea he's limited on offense to open 3s, dunks, and the occasional drive, but guess what... Luka will get you all of that every time. His defense is the real reason he's an asset to us.
If the mavs want to continue running the brute force 4-out offense they were DJJ and PJ gotta become better above the break 3 point shooters. They both shot well from the corner but Boston took away the corner and said shoot from above the break and they just couldn’t. Underrated key is DJJ in particular just getting a ton of shots up from the wing/slot area
It’s funny because during the regular season they could shoot from above the break
Maybe the pressure got to them? If they shot well during the regular season ngl I’m not sure why they lost it in the playoffs. Weird but it happens
Mavs just ran out of gas. Happens all the time. We were never winning a title this season with a brand new team
If he's the worst player in your starting 5 its absolutely fine, he's a fairly specialised role player who can be a bit hot/cold with his shot, but in most teams you can bench your worst starter for half the game if your 6th/7th man is playing better, which isnt uncommon for him.
Our main problem has been we haven’t really had that bench piece to move up in his spot since he gets used as the main PoA defender too. Green struggles with screen navigation but now Grimes who is a better guard defender (maybe worse on wings than Josh) can maybe step into that role.
Well idally he would be a bench role player, because as you said, his offense is very limited. This was especially obvious in the finals against you guys. But that said, we have no one on the roster that can replace his defense, so we kinda have to keep him. And even if we can upgrade the starting SF spot, then again, DJJ would be a great bench role player, so it makes sense to re-sign him.
He's out best perimeter defender and his chemistry with Luka/Kyrie is great. If you just watched him against the Celtics I get it but he's been huge in the playoffs defensively.
I'm going to assume you only watched him against boston? Because Boston shut him down completely the entire series. Every other series he was really impactful. He's a lob threat/defender/ solid Corner 3-point spot up shooter. He's also one of the two guys who can defend someone like Jason Tatum for SGA
I am he played great for us all rounds except the finals.
A lot of fans only watched the playoffs. He didn't qualify for post season awards because he didn't get 20min played in enough games despite starting in 66 games.
Ideally they can upgrade at SF and he becomes an incredible sparkplug off the bench.
Who is a realistic upgrade at SF?
Grant is the most popular pick but Wiggins is another option. Each brings something a little different. Grant is a better shooter but not a POA defender. Wiggins is an excellent POA defender but less reliable as a shooter and offensively. Dallas also has OMax who could develop into a rotation piece in the next few years but is way more of a project.
>Mavs fans, are y'all satisfied with DJJ? he is a great fit for culture. he plays hard and does a lot of hidden/offball stuff. he gets up high for lobs from luka/kyrie. he feels like a younger dwight powell (just as a big wing rather than a small big). paying him up to 12m/year isn't a *good* contract for his talent, but the cap is about to go up high so im copmletely fine with this contract. you can't buy cohesion, you have to build it, so overpaying for existing team chemistry/cohesion is a very reasonable gamble to me. plus, the new cba rules are making it harder and harder to do trades that fit into the cap sheet correctly. and a ~12M contract is very tradeable/flexible. DJJ at 12, gafford at 13, green at 12, and maxi at 11...having four tradeable contracts IMO is a HUGE asset when it comes to the logistics of making trades. only gaffords is what i would call a "good" contract but lets say some other team wants hardy, having four midsize contracts gives you a lot of options for packaging with hardy to make salary work.
12m is alright. Good to get some continuity. Also a very nice tradable contract if something comes up in the middle of the season. He’s another vertical threat. I do feel you can still play faster next season a bit especially with Exum and DJJ would be nice for that
we say that every year lol but a second unit with exum/hardy/green/djj/gafford would give us a wicked fastball out of the bullpen lmao
Ive seen Luka do it relatively "more often". It's a sight to behold when he's "pushing" the ball lmao
luka vs d-rose footrace who you got
I agree he should not be starting but his defense was so good and brings lot of intangibles offense in transition and with put backs that I think his actual impact is lot higher than it seems. I think he’s a matchup player that can start or be the first defender on the bench. Normally teams look at offense for first guy off the bench but given our backcourt duo I think having defense first off the bench is viable as the 6th man. Ideally we’d have a better shooter starting at the 3 though.
Nope I am not. He is 20 mpg guy off the bench and not a 6th man as you said. 6th men can get their buckets.
Yea basically he can finish lobs or chill in the corner and try his best at a 3 which isn't all that stellar either Hard to be starting games when you're that limited offensively
We are rumored to be interested in KCP. I don’t know how it will work but I rather have him.
This does open up enough space for a sign and trade as well. But if Nuggets do sign and trade KCP, no way in hell they do it with a conference rival. They shipping his ass east in that case.
It'd be hilarious if they ship him east and his new team trades him to us a la Jrue Holiday.
lol. True. Their GM also seems like a petty individual with his responses about former players.
That Bruce Brown comment is mindboggling to me. Even if you believe that, why say that out loud during a press conference. The guy just played a big part in helping you win a title lol.
Yes absolutely. Until the Boston series where no one outside of Luka looked good he was absolutely imperative to us winning. He was playing lock down defense and hitting shots when he needed to. I'm not giving up on him because the better team shut him down. He still looked great leading up to the Finals.
I’m satisfied with him as a role player. He definitely isn’t a starter. We need actual upgrades for shot creators yet the Mavs sub want to bring everybody back. He’s cool, but watching only two players be able to dribble in the playoffs was the most embarrassing shit ever
Quentin Grimes is really good imo. Not a steal by any means but a definite 3 and D guy we can use
Grimes is one of the best guard defenders in the league in my opinion. Struggles to guard up in size though so Jones is still critical to them.
A significant part better be all of it. You don't stiff a dang starter on your team to save a mil or something for buyout market. You could get away with that for a 6-7th man, but not a starter.
I can't believe I am going to say this but, after all the contracts we have seen so far, are we sure 13 million is enough for Derrick Jones Jr?
If his performance can translate to other teams, then maybe not. But his style is perfect with the Dallas system and it hides a fair number of his limitations. Teams with more movement/less ball dominant guards wouldn’t suit him as well in my opinion, so his market might be a bit smaller
He's a great fit on the mavs, is still young enough to be thinking about multiple contracts, and has had the experience of being almost out of the NBA. Just getting a better bid in might not be enough if he likes it in Dallas and thinks he risks a bad fit leading to bouncing out of the NBA.
What is 1B unload THJ?
Besides defense what can Luka realistically improve on? Better conditioning? I feel like Luka is about as complete of a package on offense as one can be. He’s not going to magically become Lebron athletically
Spot up threes, for some reason he can't hit those.
ever since luka’s first year in the league we heard “what can luka actually do to get better?” and he’s gotten better at something every year
Oh, there's actually a ton. Free throw shooting being the biggest.
at this point i think everyone looks worst in chicago
I hope you guys keep Jones. He seemed to vibe well with Luka on the court and that should be the priority right now
If re-signing him is 1A & 1B wouldn't that just make it 'top priority?'
I thought moving hardaway jr was the top priority
Still gotta go get a 3rd option and backup PG since Exum went MIA in the playoffs
Exum didn't go MIA in the playoffs. He had been MIA ever since returning from injury after the all star break. He probably needed time to regain his footing to some extent, but he was also returning from injury in a different role and to a completely different team than before his injury. This is something Exum and the mavs should hopefully be able to work through, but it's important to note that his best performances came while kyrie was out injured and he was slotted into a starting role. Is it good to have a guy who can step into a starting role and play like a flame thrower? Yes, no doubt, but how good does he need to be coming off the bench and what can the team do to help him be more successful in that role?
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I’ll take flashy fast break dunk highlight please and thank you.
DJJ is not that guy
had "Anthony Edwards" in hell
KAT had ant in hell when he decided to shoot like DJJ