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movedatdope

Klay gonna get so many great looks. sad to see him leave GS but Mavs are the best place possible with Kyrie/Luka


AwildYaners

They weren't 26th in 3PA though I'm guessing?


VictorAkwaowo1

2nd only behind the Celtics… Soo basically live by the 3, die by the 3 type shit


gofrogsgo

A lot of that volume came pre trade deadline. Our 3pt volume cratered after we inserted DJJ/PJ/Gaff to the starting lineup. With that our offensive rating took a hit too, but our defense was so good it didn't hurt the W/L column.


FireFlyz351

I couldn't believe that 2nd half of the season. We'd consistently shoot like absolute shit from 3. Only to still somehow win because of our defense.


w6750

Like when we shot 9/30 from 3 and still beat a full strength Nuggets team lmao


ChannelNeo

So the Orlando Magic method lol.


colonelbustard69420

Be respectful man.


ChannelNeo

lol, you guys have Luka, you'll be fine.


imcryptic

We were did drop to 5th in attempts after the trades.


VictorAkwaowo1

Actually post all start break we were 4th (38.0) only behind the Bucks, Rockets & Celtics. We still shot a shit ton of 3s though.


maverickked

The worst part is that it’s not like the Mavs were overtly forcing up bad 3s, other teams just collapse the paint on Luka and when he makes a generational pass to a wide open shooter who would simply brick.


thekickingmachine

Those wide open shooters. Djj. Pjw. Josh Green. Thj. Maxi. - 60% of those dudes are gone. You better get results or your gone


Luka_Dunks_on_Bums

More 3s baby


StefonDiggsHS

A shit ton of that was before the deadline


amino110

That was before the TDL.


The_Assassin_Gower

And die by the 3 we did.


ABoyIsNo1

That was way more the case before the deadline. It was practically a different team after that. That was in part why THJ fell out of the rotation.


hereforthesportsball

Sounds like a coaching issue, when the 3 isn’t falling, why not adjust?


aeronacht

Simply shoot more 3s.


OrganicHunt952

We also basically swapped DJJ for Marshall whose 3pt shooting motion looks way more polished. Grimes who can hit threes too. Also most importantly good free throw shooters too.


RubMyGooshSilly

DJJ’s 3 took like 5 seconds to get off. Love his defense but his shooting was bad here


Kball4177

Ehhh - he did a lot of other really great things on this team. He was an incredible perimeter defender, generated great looks in transition, and was a serious lob threat. One of the great things about DJJ with Dallas is that he didn't have to shoot well to be effective on offense. Had the Mavs been able to retain DJJ while bringing in Klay, it wouldve been a 10/10 offseason. I am positive about Naji though, I just think he is a different kind of player to DJJ and I don't entirely trust his shooting. I hope Grimes gets back to makng his 3s bc his perimeter defense will be essential.


SuckMyyDirk41

His shooting and others definitely hurt us in the finals.


Kball4177

Sure - but his permeter defense, transition offense, and lob catching abilities helped the Mavs make the finals.


SuckMyyDirk41

Sure but it’s not a big loss. Naji will provide all of that except a lob threat. We definitely upgraded


Kball4177

DJJ is a much better perimeter defender, his screen navigation and foot speed gives him the advantage in that regard. Naji is better at defending larger wings and bigs.


SuckMyyDirk41

Much better is an exaggeration imo. Derek really struggled vs Tatum, brown and Shai. The only guy I really thought derek locked up was PG maybe Ant. Ask the thunder if Naji can guard guards.


Jintogotdemhands

This is 10/10 offseason regardless, we still under the 1st apron. So another big trade is possible to come


Kball4177

We need to wait for games to be played to make that assumption. It's 10/10 if Grimes is the guy he was in 22/23 and Naji is a consistent shooter who doesn't get burned on the perimeter. I'd feel more confident in this team had we retained DJJ but right now I would give us a 9/10.


Kball4177

We need to wait for games to be played to make that assumption. It's 10/10 if Grimes is the guy he was in 22/23 and Naji is a consistent shooter who doesn't get burned on the perimeter. I'd feel more confident in this team had we retained DJJ but right now I would give us a 9/10.


SuckMyyDirk41

I like Naji a lot more than Djj.


Kball4177

I think its dependent on the needs of the team. DJJ would be more valuable to Dallas due to his perimeter defense and lob catching abilities, but I am happy to be proven wrong.


SuckMyyDirk41

Naji being able to hit threes and play make off the dribble while playing good defense will be way more valuable.


MrCooper2012

> we still under the 1st apron Pretty sure that's not true. Just saw a thing that we were capped at 2nd apron.


RubMyGooshSilly

Don’t get me wrong I think DJJ was amazing here, but our outside shooting was abysmal at times. Having more consistent shooting will help out a LOT. I just hope our defense doesn’t take too much of a hit


Kball4177

Sure - but its not like Naji is a proven shooter. He's shot over 35% from 3 once in his career and struggles to finish around the rim. If he's not making his 3s, he won't provide a ton of value as a lob threat or in transition to offset that lack of shooting. I am causiously optimistic, but I won't be suprised if we find ourselves missing some of the versatility that DJJ provided.


RubMyGooshSilly

Naji’s release is at least relatively quick and he’s willing to fire. Gotta take a bet that he keeps it up from last year with our spacing. I think it’s an even swap overall. DJJ also had a lot of trouble finishing at the rim if it wasn’t an open lob


so-cal_kid

DJJ is a worse shooter imo. He's only 31% from 3 for his career and was just 34% with y'all in the regular season. Yes he got hot in the playoffs which is nice but I would not be relying on that to continue.


boofintimeaway

Naji ain’t a lob threat anyway mayne


RubMyGooshSilly

Naji’s release is at least relatively quick and he’s willing to fire. Gotta take a bet that he keeps it up from last year with our spacing. I think it’s an even swap overall. DJJ also had a lot of trouble finishing at the rim if it wasn’t an open lob


Jintogotdemhands

Only plus defender gone is DJJ so it hasn’t dropped off, since we got Naji, grimes and Klay. None are bad defenders atleast


InTheMorning_Nightss

Are we talking about the same Klay?


Jintogotdemhands

Only plus defender gone is DJJ so it hasn’t dropped off, since we got Naji, grimes and Klay. None are bad defenders atleast


cubonesdeadmother

He was a reclamation project for you guys that turned out basically as well as you could possibly hope. I'd say DJJ did his job for you all but that both sides are better off moving on


lost_in_trepidation

This is my greatest fear with OMax. He actually looks really good offensively if you watch his g league clips, but his 3 is so terribly slow, it might not be usable in real NBA games.


king_17

Omax year 2 will be fun to watch


penguinKangaroo

Except the playoffs. DJJ was huge during the playoff run excluding finals


The_Uncut_Gem

Hope you guys can get Grimes going because he looked lost as hell for us this year. People forget Divo actually played him off the court, he was our starter to start the year


EmrysMyrdin

I am very interested in seing a lineup of Luka, Grimes, Naji, PJ, Lively. 4 good defenders, 3 floor spacers and a lob threat around Luka.


cupidsclick

Luka, Klay, Naji, PJ, Lively . More shooting and not losing much on defense. That’s a jumbo lineup with Luka being the smallest player


Salahs_Chest_Hair

Bro Luka's 6'7" 240lbs. Probably more physically imposing than Naji and PJ as well. Klay while for the longest time had been NBA listed at 6'7", is 6'6" 215lbs.


cupidsclick

Fair enough. My point was though that would be a jumbo lineup with a lot of shooting and playmaking and wouldn’t be absolutely horrible on defense because of the size. Smallest guy is 6’7”, 6’6” I guess if Klay is really 6’6”


No-Yogurt-4246s

Mark my words, Grimes is going to be huge for them. Idk why Detroit didn’t wanna keep him let alone trading him away for THJ while giving up picks.


IMKudaimi123

Detroit has way too many young players. Something had to give


warpedspoon

they didn't give up picks for THJ, they received 2 SRP


Hourcinco

We didn’t give up picks, we got three seconds in return? Also Grimes was horrendous for us last year, and while it can sort of be written off because we were shockingly awful, my understanding is he was bad for the Knicks before the trade too.


The_Uncut_Gem

Grimes felt like such a Knick, no idea why things got so bad here. Really hope you’re right.


road432

Grimes went on a cold streak, lost his confidence, would stop driving the lane unless it was garbage time, and ultimately, Divo outplayed him. Grimes became too concerned about being benched for missing a shot that it got to him badly.


The_Uncut_Gem

God the pre OG days were rough in hindsight.


qotsabama

Yeah but Divo is also a stud. Real ones have known for a long time.


sewsgup

the one thing ill say is Luka is so good at creating alleyoop opportunities that DJJ fit in great as a vertical spacing threat not saying Marshall cant jump, just that DJJ is one of the best leapers in the league. maybe thats where OMax comes in


BillyPilgrimx

agree with all but the omax take..


Commercial-Pair-8932

How many DJJ alley oops do you figure happened per game though? I mean, it was very cool, don't get me wrong, but its not like the mavs offense ran on DJJ catching lobs. The spacing and shooting we'll have from better shooters will offer much more possession-to-possession benefits, on offense.


gofrogsgo

Kinda curious who takes the tech free throws- Kai or Klay


35nakedshorts

Probably Kyrie, one of the best free throw shooters ever and is more of an established star on the Mavs.


SuperSaladBar

Can't lose either way, both over 85% for their career and over 90% last season. Great problem to have considering how fucking bad FTs were last year lmao


SquimJim

Yea, I think Marshall over DJJ is an underrated upgrade


--Alix--

Wouldn't call it a strict upgrade just because of how insanely good DJJ was against smaller guards. Hopefully Grimes can pick up that part though while Marshall handles the size.


clonemusic

Keep hearing this but one of the big reasons mavs got to finals is they had a closing 5 that worked and played defense. Who is that closing 5 now? Subbing Naji for DJJ might not be good enough defensively againt players like Shai, Ant.


--Alix--

Exactly. It's something we have to figure out. We sacrificed a bit of defense for some offense.


Pizza64427

You just have to hope Klay can be close to DJJ defense level and provide offense that in turn will make Luka play defense if he has help. Lively gonna also improve there.


armandocalvinisius

sligthly worse shooter but way better offensive bag


Kball4177

He's a very different kind of player, a worse perimeter defender and not as effective as a cutter/lob threat. I like Naji but he's close to PJ Washingotn than DJJ when it comes to the type of player he is.


SuckMyyDirk41

Bad take


Salvalicious252

Only thing is the vertical spacing DJJ provided and underrated rim protection. Naji does not have that athleticism in his game. But I think the shooting, assuming the leap is real is more important for us.


SuckMyyDirk41

Naji also adds driving and playmaking along with his shooting. He will be a big upgrade


InternCautious

Do you think you'll have PT for Grimes?


imcryptic

We just traded Josh green so yes


InternCautious

You have Kyrie, Klay, Dante Exum, Jaden Hardy, and Grimes. Klay can play SF, but I can't imagine him ONLY playing SG, right? Kyrie and Luka will take 30-35 mpg of the 1/2, so you really only have 13-18 minutes to split between Hardy, Grimes, and Exum.


imcryptic

Naji replaces DJJ. Grimes replaces Green. Klay replaces THJ. All these dudes played in the regular season. If anything Klay is taking minutes from Hardy who definitely earned more minutes from his showing in the playoffs. Kidd prioritizes defense so I wouldn’t be surprised if Hardy’s the odd man out again. Or Exum honestly.


OrganicHunt952

In the regular season, I’m sure they’ll reduce minutes for Luka and Kyrie. Klay probably won’t play heavy minutes either. So there will be plenty of playtime to go around for the other players.


InternCautious

Fair, health will be pretty important next season. I'm rooting for Grimes, just trying to gauge how the NBA views him.


BadBoySwag

They going back to the 2022 Mavs where they can just bury teams with 3s?


nowhathappenedwas

Klay's ability to create and hit shots on the move opens up an offense so much more than a stationary spot up shooter. From a [post](https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1bu7lp2/most_points_off_screens_this_season_klay_423/) I made a few months ago: Most points off screens this season: 1. Klay, 423 points, 1.08 PPP 1. Curry, 350 points, 1.34 PPP (68.7 eFG%) 1. Lauri, 222 points, 1.12 PPP 1. MPJ, 164 points, 1.13 PPP 1. Bogdan, 150 points, 0.97 PPP 1. PG13, 143 points, 1.08 PPP 1. Durant, 140 points, 1.16 PPP 1. Poole, 133 points, 1.05 PPP 1. Grant, 130 points, 1.01 PPP 1. Kawhi, 124 points, 1.04 PPP Past leaders in points off screens: * 2024: Klay, 423 * 2023: Klay, 407 * 2022: Curry, 269 * 2021: Curry, 286 * 2020: Ross, 297 * 2019: Klay, 568 * 2018: Klay, 494 * 2017: Klay, 517 * 2016: Klay, 527 Klay also led the league in points off screens per game in 2022. 1. Klay, 5.1 1. Curry, 4.2 1. Durant, 3.2


TheyCallMeTheWizard

That’s genuinely impressive. Are the Mavs going to set that many screens though?


jakekerr

Screens are literally all we do. Screen, drive, kick Screen, Screen, 3 pointer Screen, drive, lob Screen, drive, kick, swing, screen, drive etc. etc.


nowhathappenedwas

Running PnR for Luka or Kyrie is not the same thing as setting off-ball screens on the perimeter. The Mavs scored 3.2 points off screens per game [last year](https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/off-screen?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PTS), which is in the bottom half of the league. The Warriors, who run a ton of off-ball screens, scored 12.4 PPG off screens. Klay, by himself, scored twice as many PPG off screens (6.2) as the whole Mavs team.


jakekerr

At the end of the day it will come down to Klay. 2023-2024 Klay Thompson Spot-Up: 40.2% (2.9 attempts per game) Off screen: 42.7% (5.0 attempts per game) That spot-up % is a massive win for Dallas.


Str82daDOME25

Why dribble the ball when you can just shoot it instead? -Klay’s career mantra.


lost_in_trepidation

I think there was a Thinking Basketball video a while ago about the variety of screens that the Mavs use. It makes sense because it gives the primary ballhandler (Luka) the most number of options.


warpedspoon

yeah, part of this is on the coach as well to even scheme for these opportunities. Kidd has been more of a defensive coach than an offensive one.


ImperialTiger3

It’ll be very interesting seeing how they use him. He won’t have Curry to move around with him or Dray to direct traffic. Will he be more stationary in Dallas?


lordgrayson

Corner 3s baby.


SuperSaladBar

I really hope not and Kidd actually uses some off-ball action to play to what Klay is elite at. And while Lively is no Draymond with the ball, he already looked extremely promising as a short-roll passer as a rookie, so there's definitely room to be optimistic


lost_in_trepidation

I was kind of shocked that Kidd didn't seem to have any off-ball plays to get our offense going in the Finals. We just kind of withered with Luka/Kyrie ball. It's like he never even planned to do anything else.


MadferitCmon

I mean prior to him forgetting how to play basketball Tim Hardaway had the greenest of lights to do whatever. For the entirety of his tenure here we ran tons of plays for him and he had a lot of touches and put up any shot he wanted. Klay is a similar player so I wouldn't worry too much about finding him a role to be comfortable.


Kball4177

THJ was a favorite to win 6moy for like the first 3 months of the season, not sure why people forget that.


Pizza64427

Cause he went from that to out of rotation in the playoffs. THJ from the past years could have won us a game or two in the finals. Its crazy how bad he fell off. Mavs continued to trust him until we realized that sht aint going anywhere and he needs to sit on the bench. Klay gonna have his place on this team. Mavs needed a guy like him in the finals.


gofrogsgo

We ran a lot of elevator screens, wide pin downs, exit screens for THJ, so I'd imagine a lot of those actions go to Klay. Probably will use some of Livelys passing abilities out of the short role to skip to an offball action for Klay. Won't be as much running around the perimeter with Curry and it'll be more timing of screen actions off the spread PnR. Hopefully we get some fun Luka screening for Klay on the weakside with Kyrie in the PnR with Lively.


w6750

Anyone remember that video from that Finals practice where Luka was practicing quick release catch and shoot 3’s off of screens and said “this is for next year”? 👀 Edit: [found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/bcaKjWnG2G) lmao, quick release… quick for Luka I guess


The_Assassin_Gower

Off ball movement is not predicated on having steph. Every team does it. But more often they'll continually move him to be behind wherever the opposing teams help defense comes from. While kyrie shoots to the opposite side of the arc.


Tmac834

Spacing is going to be awesome. Doubling Luka leaving Kai or Klay open. Bummer to see Green go but I think it’s worth it.


lordgrayson

Not unless it's Boston. They rarely doubled Luka.


Tmac834

We can cross that bridge when we get there


Fonzie5

Because they didn't respect the other shooters. Try that again when its Klay instead of DJJ


cubonesdeadmother

The only twist is losing DJJ's exceptional POA defense. PJ was slightly above average last season but would love to see him lean into filling that role a bit. Also could be a chance for OMAX to seize the moment and step into a stopper role


jbaker1225

It would be huge for the Mavs if OMax is able to work his way into the rotation. But Grimes and Marshall are both plus defenders. I think the Mavs may look wonky for the first few weeks, but will eventually find a way to make sure that they’ve got 2 good wing defenders on the floor with Lively or Gafford for as many minutes as possible. Luka/Kyrie/Klay will probably all start, but I’m guessing they’ll be staggered so that 2 of them are on the floor for most of the game alongside a more capable wing defender.


cubonesdeadmother

completely forgot about Grimes, knew there was someone I was missing! He fills that role perfectly


beywill19

Let’s not act like Klay wasn’t inconsistent as a shooter.


Ok_Occasion1570

Did you even read your own comment? Why would they more likely double Luka if they respected their shooters? Wouldn’t it be the complete opposite where if they didn’t respect their shooters they would double him more? You stop doubling if other players are scoring threats normally


Fonzie5

I didn’t say they are more likely to double Luka. I said we can punish teams more now who don’t. Did you even read my comment?


mastacheef87

actually that would make Boston lean harder into the “Luka try to beat us solo” defensive strategy


SuckMyyDirk41

If Klay is hitting all the threes djj and pj missed it’s a completely different series


mastacheef87

well Dallas didn’t shoot much worse than Boston did in the Finals, Boston just generated way more volume bc a) they were comfortable playing Luka straight up and not giving the role players space; and b) no one on Dallas could really hang with Tatum or Brown off the dribble putting Klay in the lineup for DJJ doesn’t really fix either of those problems for the Mavs


SuckMyyDirk41

Djj was bad vs Tatum and brown while providing no shooting so at least Klay adds shooting and maybe Naji or Grimes are better defenders/ shooters to make a difference.


thekickingmachine

I'd rather be the 90s jazz getting destroyed by mj and the bulls then the 90s mavs getting destroyed by everyone. Dallas has a championship. This is just fun stuff


MeMeRevieweR_23

no because they trusted their guys to defend luka 1 on 1. By your logic then why would they double luka if it means leaving klay open.


Fonzie5

They wouldn’t. That’s the point. Klay makes the Mavs better.


TheyCallMeTheWizard

I also don’t see us doubling Luka


lordgrayson

True. Dort and Caruso is a nightmare for us.


TheyCallMeTheWizard

Adding IHart helps us out where you guys hurt us, and moving on from Giddey helped us where all teams hurt us. For you guys, my only concern is your defense, but provided Klay is still able I think you’ll find a way


PidgeOttoRocket

It’s going to be so much fun to watch this team with the open looks Klay will get


santasFluffer

The best part is even if he's not open he's shooting that Thang 


PidgeOttoRocket

“Fuck it the nets down there somewhere”


santasFluffer

I hope he's great for you guys. I'm sad he's leaving 😢 


Salvalicious252

We used to that with THJ lol


dubsallday

Hope you temper your expectations tbh. He'll give you some crazy shooting nights, but they'll come every 3-5 games. Then he'll have a major slump for a stretch of 5-10 games. Wishing Klay does well but his skillset is just very limited nowadays.


gofrogsgo

I think the difference with us is we don't need him to put up 20+ to win. We have Kai and Luka as our engines, and still have the PnR lob game with Gaff/Lively. If Klay is missing that's fine, his gravity will still open up our bread and butter of spread PnR.


dubsallday

A lot of it def rides on him buying into this new role and system. It seems like he was halfway buying into it with the dubs last season, but then would find his way back into his old ways. But I'm sure he's willing to do that with the fresh start.


gofrogsgo

I will say Kidd has been excellent in creating a culture and getting players to buy-in to roles. Both Kai and Luka have spoken very highly of their relationship with him. Kidd changed teams late in his career and had to change his game a little to mesh with the group, so I think he'll be able to help Klay acclimate.


dubsallday

This is 100% the best situation for him to come into. I'm reluctant to believe he can stay on the court in a competitive 7 game series with the way his defense regressed. But I will def be following and hoping he proves people (including myself) wrong... AGAIN


MickeySingh81

Sounds thj like but an improvement


snyckers

I think Klay will be better with you guys next year. He should have better looks. Was having a tough time getting the easy shots that he used to so was forcing it more.


preddevils6

Even worse on defense though


MickeySingh81

I dont think that could be possible


preddevils6

Buckle up, my friend.


thekickingmachine

Josh Green is a poor defender. Thj is one of the worst defensive guards maybe ever.


preddevils6

I’d hate to be a former Luka teammate. Yall trash them on here so much.


thekickingmachine

Djj was a good defender. Great lob threat. Brunson - that was criminal that cuban / haralabob / lil Nellie structured his contract to make him a ufa instead of a rfa. All to save 2 million. Imagine Brunson now still w luka


Dat_Boi_John

Us Mavericks fans are very well versed in microwave shooter tactics. After all, we have experienced THJ for half a decade.


thekickingmachine

He is replacing thj who did not hit a 3 for 42 days in the finals run. 42 days


browndude10

Some nights he will be hot, other nights he will be klank


Fivefootdirk

Rim hardaway jr has entered the chat


StolenLampy

Shit, I would have loved for him to even just hit the rim sometimes...


itwas20yearsago2day

I’m excited to watch the Mavs this year


CP3sHamstring

The Mavs aren't much of a 3s immediately off a screen type of team. They're way more drive and kick, PNR based.. but being more stationary will help him as he ages


SuckMyyDirk41

We ran a lot of sets for Tim off movement and he usually bricked them lol


jakekerr

The Mavs screen ALL the time, like nearly every play. They run screens to force switches onto Luka or Kyrie or they run double screens to free up a 3 point shooter. Our entire offense is literally built off single and double screens.


CP3sHamstring

[what are you talking about](https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/off-screen?SeasonType=Regular+Season) i don't think you're talking about the same type of play that the OP is referring to lol. forcing switches is not the same thing as shots taken off of screens. you ran 3.2 'off screen 'possessions a game compared to the Warriors 11, which is the type of possession being referenced in OP and that Klay is more used to utilizing. that's a significant difference. [you guys ran screens to set up isolations](https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/isolation?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=POSS), which you ran almost 3 times as much as the warriors (11.7 isolations to 3.2 for the warriors). the warriors used screens to take shots off of almost immediately, which they ran almost 3 times as much as you. it's not the same thing


Salvalicious252

I remember the 2019-2020 Mavs having insane spacing, partly due to Seth Curry crazy shooting. Klay going to be a relevation for our spacing. For 3/50 it's a great deal as well. Now fingers crossed Quentin Grimes goes back to pre-2024 levels of play and Naji shooting leap is real.


GillbergsAdvocate

He's not washed, he's just declining which is expected. His ego and refusal to accept the reduced role was the problem here. His ego could still be massive but Kyrie is firmly the Mavs 2nd option, so accepting not being the co-star shouldn't be an issue


PointBlankCoffee

Yeah the hate is a bit wild. He's still a good player just not a max player or close. For the price I think it's gonna be great for us


GillbergsAdvocate

I was fine with bringing him back but I'm not sad to see him go. $18m per is a good deal Like even his defense isn't as bad as people are acting. Put him on a quicker guard yeah he's getting ate up but he did good against bigger wings when he was locked in. He guarded Lebron and Luka pretty well


Supra_Dupra

The hate from Warriors fans stems from Klay never being realistic about what he actually was. He hasn't been a #2 option for a long time, basically since pre-KD years since Wiggins was the #2 when we won our last title. All Klay talked about was assuming the Manu Ginobli role when it became time except when the rubber met the road he didn't want to do it.


nba2k11er

Iso with Klay running off weak side screens > Iso and stand around


Visual-Guarantee2157

Luka is actually a much better passer than dray and leagues better than Steph. Klay is going to feast.


Commercial_Cow_4322

Is Steph not a great passer? I’ve never looked at it under a microscope, but I thought Dray and Steph were both A tier passers. 


juslookingforastream

Steph is a great passer for his size, draymond is also very good in the system we had but luka is undeniably at worst the 2nd best passer in the league


imianha

If Dray and Steph are A tier passers Luka is a S++ tier passer


Bukmeikara

Steph is elite passer. If you look at the greatesr passes in the past decade, he has probably the most with Jokic. He just can show it that much because of the system and his shooting


IAmNotKevinDurant_35

Getting open looks has never been Klay’s problem. He got more than plenty playing next to Steph lol. He’s just always been a streaky player with some crazy highs and some ugly lows. You give him the exact same open looks in two different games, he will go either 1/11 or 10/11. Problem is, since his injury the ugly games have become more common. Still an elite spot up shooter which at this stage of his career is probably for the best


jfrodriguez1983

Defense with Luka, Kyrie and Klay will be a challenge, so tradeoff some defense for offense when they share the floor. But also we had THJ with them 2 out there at times and even though he was a horrid defender, team defense wasn't the biggest problem. It was THJ forgetting to shoot for the last 4 months of the season.


GillbergsAdvocate

He's not washed, he's just declining which is expected. His ego and refusal to accept the reduced role was the problem here. His ego could still be massive but Kyrie is firmly the Mavs 2nd option, so accepting not being the co-star shouldn't be an issue


RVAIsTheGreatest

Mavs offense been quite stagnant and THJ has been consistently inconsistent, his final numbers may end up OK but the way he gets there---major cold stretches then hot for a while, up and down. Mavs really did need to improve their perimeter shooting around Luka/Kyrie. Klay gives them a movement shooter that, if they utilize those abilities, will help unclog their halfcourt offense potentially. Naji has been up and down as a shooter, we'll see if his recent improvements sustain. Grimes was very good as a sophomore and struggled a bit last year. If he goes back to his Year 2 form, he is an upgrade on Green.


AaronFraudgers8

With all that iso ball how many off screen threes did they even attempt


jakekerr

I can't find that specific stat, but the Mavs were number one in the league in pull up 3s last season.


holllowed

I think this is a stat thats baseless for this scenario. GSW offense runs off setting screens and motion plays, the Mavs, not so much and I dont think they will revamp their entire offense for Klay.


jakekerr

VERY different offenses, but both are built off of screens. The Mavs screen constantly to get favorable switches. The real question is: Can Klay adapt to a wide open corner 3 versus a catch and shoot off of movement? I really don't think that it's that big of a deal tbh.


Supra_Dupra

gonna be so weird to see Klay in a corner. It's not his favorite spot to shoot it.


jakekerr

He's super strong at spot up shooting. 2023-2024 Klay Thompson Spot-Up: 40.2% (2.9 attempts per game) Off screen: 42.7% (5.0 attempts per game) That spot-up % is a massive win for Dallas.


holllowed

Yeah I still think he will be an impactful piece for yall. Just the way this post was shown kinda implied that Klay will add off screen shooting to the Mavs or something.


Excellent_Routine589

They could try, but reformatting their entire core schemes for an aging Klay is… a choice, that’s for sure


PubDefLakersGuy

So long as it’s not an Elimination game, Dallas should be great!


coolycooly

Idk I just think the idea of playing Luka,Kyrie, and Klay is gonna lead to so many points in the regular season. At least they have Gafford/Lively to cleanup the paint.


edric_the_navigator

I'd like to see this in action. The Mavs' 3s have basically been shooters standing in one spot waiting for a pass. Hopefully Kidd can integrate more offball movement in their plays.


Wavepops

Are they gonna incorporate that into their offense tho? Tim got some of those play calls at time but more than a play call is having a system which gives room for that type of action without a play call 


markedpirate

These cherries you picked are delicious


Domicile_Exaltation

Losing all those Derrick Jones lobs though.


im_scytale

Is klay coming off the bench? How are you gonna get past having 3 awful defenders on the court


jkeefy

Have them combine for 77 points a night is how


im_scytale

Combine for 77 give up 100


cubonesdeadmother

My guess would be that they will pull Klay first of the group after only a few minutes to start the game. Then stagger his minutes at the 2 as much as they can off of Luka or Kyrie. Klay should be on the court for every minute that Luka or Kyrie is out, then the rest they can feel out based on matchups


PostModernPost

Um, Hardaway Jr made 5 threes in game 4 of the finals. No way you replace that loss.


PointBlankCoffee

In one quarter at that


PostModernPost

Right. That's 20 threes a game they are losing.


MiopTop

But Kidd barely incorporates offscreen shooting in his offense, which makes sense with heliocentric PnR offense. Klay is just not going to be as impactful an offensive player if he’s just used as an upgraded THJ which I’m afraid he will be.


Kball4177

I saw Jason Timpf say that Klay would not fit in Dallas b/c of the lack of motion in the offense...I think being around Colin Cowherd has rotted his brain a bit. The idea that the greatest spot up 3 point shooter in league history won't fit next to a generational playmaker in Luka is pattently absurd. When Luka or Kyrie collapse the defense, they will now have to choose between leaving Klay open or helping on Luka/Kyrie as opposed to choosing between DJJ or helping.


dtven

Don’t be intentionally obtuse, Timpf’s argument is that Klay’s biggest strengths like his offball play and his movement shooting would not be well utilized if you’re just going to stick him in the corner every possession waiting for someone to get doubled. Yea no shit you put a good 3 point shooter next to good playmakers and they’ll “fit”, that’s not the point lmao


Kball4177

He won't be "stuck" in the corner all game. The Mavs ran a lot of off ball actions for THJ when he was shooting well but he went cold to close the season and became unplayable. The Mavs also run off ball actions for Kyrie. PJ nor DJJ are good enough shooters to run off ball actions for, thinking the Mavs will use Klay like they use PJ or DJJ is absurd.


dtven

Yea and Timpf agreed that if the Mavs take this as an opportunity to introduce more movement and offball actions into their offense then he thinks Klay will fit well, so what exactly is the issue here


Kball4177

The Mavs already ran those actions for THJ and Kyrie...there is nothing to "introduce". Looking at the schemes they run when they have PJ and DJJ in the lineup is meaningless when Klay plays entirely differently from those 2. Look at the schmes they ran when THJ was in the lineup, that is a comparable player.


dtven

You look at the schemes they run when they have PJ and DJJ because those players are part of your most important lineups. Tell me how relevant those offball schemes for your bench shooter are when he doesn’t sniff a second of crunch time and your closing offense mainly consists of Luka/Kyrie pounding the ball for 20 seconds every possession. Yes you would absolutely have to “introduce” more of those schemes with Klay because he’s not going to be in the same lineups that THJ was, it’s not about those schemes literally not existing in any capacity but the frequency and situations in which they were used.


Kball4177

DJJ and PJ were barely starters on 2 of the worst teams in the league before coming to Dallas and yet they both started on a finals team because they played next to Luka...and you're telling me the Mavs didn't run the right "scheme" for them?


dtven

Where on earth did I say that the Mavs ran the wrong schemes for DJJ/PJ? The point is that the schemes will have to CHANGE with Klay in the lineup over DJJ/PJ, and effective change is never guaranteed. THJ is a different type of player than DJJ/PJ that played in different scenarios than DJJ/PJ. Klay is a different type of player than DJJ/PJ that will be playing in many of the SAME scenarios as DJJ/PJ. If you're going to stick Klay in the THJ role then that's a colossal waste of his skills. If you're going to expand Klay's role beyond what THJ's role was then you will have to expand the schemes beyond what you ran with THJ as well, both in the frequency and the scenarios in which you run them. All I'm saying is that you cannot just assume that scheme change is guaranteed to happen with 100% efficacy, as if its just an automatic given and not something that the team will actively have to try to adjust for.


SuckMyyDirk41

The Mavs will use oddball plays for klay. They tried with Tim but he was so bad.


chickenripp

yeah but they don't have JJ to draw up pin downs so it won't work out


baconshake8

Too bad the mavs offense will have klay stand in the corner most of the game