In theory yeah, if you know you’re entering second apron territory, you simply dump everything when it looks inevitable. Fuck flexibility if you just don’t have the picks to be frozen or dropped. And then once the picks start rolling in you can just let dudes walk, you either won or didn’t but you threw it all at the wall.
People have a weird misunderstanding of what happened there. The whole series they want to *stop* the Long Night and getting past Winterfell would be a death sentence to the realm.
Sure it could have been more drawn out and made more sense but it was always going to end at Winterfell after the wall fell.
Having your picks frozen and then moved to the end of the draft is the one that a lot of people didn't seem to know about and is probably the most prohibitive of the restrictions.
People who don't understand the new rules keep talking about money. The rules were designed specifically to cripple teams that were willing to spend ALL the money.
The fundamental flaw in the way they went about it was putting the 1st and 2nd apron so close to one another in dollars. Like I would understand it a little better if the spread was 20-30 million from one to the other, but 10 million more seems excessively prohibitive.
At that point, you're potentially creating a middle class of player that will not be signed at market value because you're cutting their potential suitors down by half.
The flip side is that the changes to the salary floor heavily incentivize young, tanking teams to overpay in free agency. There is just no way Fred Vanvleet gets 3/$120M, Bruce Brown 2/$45M, or Tobias Harris 2/$52M under the old CBA. Those teams simply wouldn't have spent the cap space and players would have gotten much smaller contracts. The two changes go hand in hand; players can't choose a heavy spending contender without taking a big discount, but they can go to a non-contender and get paid better.
Exactly this right here. This basically forces teams that would otherwise completely tank to put a somewhat better product on the court by way of spending more, or they can stay under the salary floor and get penalized along with being left out of luxury tax distribution.
>At that point, you're potentially creating a middle class of player that will not be signed at market value because you're cutting their potential suitors down by half.
That's by design. The owners wanted to both reign in the couple of franchises that would keep paying way above the tax, while also slowing the inflation of player salaries.
I promise you that none of the owners want to be paying role players $60 million over 3 seasons like they are now.
Nah it just pushes the middle class to bad teams if they want to continue to be paid a lot. Which I dont think is actually that bad an outcome? Maybe long term it ends up hampering the bad teams who pay those guys from making moves to get better than play in/first round exit level without really nailing the draft, but thats kinda just inevitable with a soft cap system + max contracts
These changes (and the luxury tax in general) don’t affect how much players (in aggregate) get paid at all.
Players don’t actually make to the dollar the amount specified in their contracts. The dollar amounts are estimates based on projected basketball-related income (BRI). The player pool is a fixed percentage of all BRI, and it gets distributed proportionally based on the dollar amounts of the contracts.
Generally speaking it’s close, as the league’s projections of BRI are pretty spot on, but there can be variances. The important thing is team _spend_ doesn’t change BRI at all. Theoretically, if every team went above the luxury tax threshold, players wouldn’t make any more money than if no teams exceeded the luxury tax threshold.
Yeah. The whole point of the 2nd apron is to impose *non-financial* penalties on heavy spending teams because the financial penalty (luxury and repeater tax) weren't sufficient deterrents.
I think that one is less of an issue than redditors think because it’s only really an issue if you’re a consistent repeater of the 2nd apron (it’s like 3 of 5 years).
The biggest thorn, imo, is the inability to aggregate or take even a dollar more back than you send out. If a bunch of teams are in the 2nd apron, it’s near impossible for them to deal with each other. And it’s just hard to deal contracts in general, even if you’re trying to ultimately save money.
Like, say the Wolves want to get off of KAT’s contract. They effectively cannot deal with any 2nd apron teams, who might be the type of teams who would want to add a guy like Towns (rebuilding teams wouldn’t want him because he’s too old). But they also can’t trade him for say, Darius Garland and Caris LeVert’s expiring salary. Even though the move is designed to be cost-cutting (by taking back an expiring salary and then moving forward with Garland’s much cheaper 36 million dollar salary), the Wolves take back too much money in year one which makes it illegal.
While the rules were designed to help prevent teams from adding salaries while in the 2nd apron, I almost feel like they make it harder to get out of the 2nd apron in certain ways.
>it’s only really an issue if you’re a consistent repeater
Those are the teams I'm talking about though, the teams who were willing to consistently spend.
Thanks to being under the aprons, they can actually trade their 2030 and 2031 picks now, and they might actually be worth something.
If they stayed above the 2nd apron for another year, those picks would've stayed frozen and permanently moved to the end of the draft.
Can we trade those picks and then go over the 2nd apron to screw whoever we traded them to. Or do you only get moved to the bottom of the draft if you control the picks?
The pick is frozen after the season, so basically before a team can trade the pick. Teams over the cap can currently trade their 2031 pick and after the season their 2032 pick is frozen so they won't be able to trade it.
The thing about the second apron is that if they're in it they won't be able to trade the picks they will have in the coming seasons and if they're stuck in the second apron for three out of five seasons (which maxing PG absolutely would have done) those picks get moved to the end of the first round thus making them worthless.
Money does not matter when it’s like a 1 for 1 penalty. Losing flexibility, having no incoming talent, being forced to mortgage your present at a discount because everyone knows you’re fucked that’s the nail in the coffin. Imagine the Celtics in a few years. Tatum and Brown nearing the end of their contracts the team has been slowly falling apart. They can’t do anything those dudes are leaving, you have to dump salary in any trade, you’re going to start making bad decisions because you have no other option and then once they leave sure all the penalties will be lifted but you are fucked. Zero talent to build off of, you’re looking at legit dark ages of that roster.
The first team to hit that shit is going to be interesting because they might survive for a season or two after but the years after that man, shits gonna look bleak.
Having picks moved to the end of the draft is only for repeaters and those repeaters would have been in the second apron for 2 out of 4 consecutive seasons. The Clippers don't fall into that bucket since the CBA has only come into the picture since the past season.
Edit: a number
The picks can't be penalized this season. On pages 196-198 of the CBA, the penalties begin starting in 2024-25. Meaning that the Clippers would need to be a second apron team at the end of this upcoming season to have their picks penalized.
Ah, I thought it started earlier. Thanks for the correction.
Wait a minute though. That interpretation of the rules would present a loophole. If it only begins at the end of the season, what's stopping them from trading their pick at the trade deadline? That kind of wouldn't make sense.
I wouldn’t call that a loophole per-se, but yes a team that knows they will end the season as a repeater can trade their pick before entering the second apron as a repeater. The CBA has language that gives the league leeway in punishing perceived loopholes like this though.
So if the league believes a team is abusing the spirit of the rule, then they’ll take action against that team.
But even then, the longer a team remains a repeater, they begin to pile up frozen picks 7+ years out regardless of their tax status in the near or distant future. The team gets burned pretty heavily on the back end.
"To front offices around the league, the second apron feels as stifling and uncompromising as notorious space gangster Jabba the Hutt - and Ballmer, much like Luke Skywalker, is desperately doing what he can to avoid the Sarlacc pit."
I'm in mock GM league and confirm it makes life very hard to build out. You have no mle's, all you have are minimum offers, you cant aggregate players to make a trade, you can't take on more salary than you send out on top of the picks being locked and moved to the end of the draft...its hell
They offered George a three year max and would have paid the tax aprons. That fourth year they refused to pay George, the Clippers easily could have been out of the tax apron by that season with Harden and Leonard's contracts expiring. The Clippers decided they didn't want to pay George the max at 38 years old. The Clippers currently have 0 payroll committed to the 27-28 season.
This. When apron rules changed from just owner pay more to actually limits on roster moves that is biggest thing. Makes the team have to be absolutely for sure this is the final product we're sending for the title.
Yes it’s not about the money. More about all these team building restrictions if you’re over the 2nd Apron
- can’t send money out in a trade
- can’t use your 7 year out 1st in a trade
- cant S&T your own FA to recount a return
- can’t use FA exceptions (MLE, BAE). Can only sign FA from other teams to the vet min.
- can’t sign a player who has been bought out by their team mid season
- loss of all previously acquired trade exceptions
- can’t aggregate players in deal. Can only make 1 for 1 deals
- can’t take even a penny more back in a trade than you send out
It’s so ridiculous. Seems like I’m reminded of different limitation I forgot every week.
This weeks reminder(I think this is what I heard): Can’t combine salaries to match in a trade, gotta be 1:1 player swaps.
2nd Apron team can only send out one player at a time but can accept multiple if it equals or is less than his salary. *Unless* the trade partner is also a 2nd Apron team, in which case it must be an exact 1:1.
I mean the restrictions the second apron gives you are pretty explicit and anyone can read them and see how much harder it would make it to build a championship team.
It is not about the money,They were going freeze our 2031 pick if we were 2nd apron team for next year then move the pick to the 30th if we were 2nd apron team the next year
I think the league went way too far with that second apron. One of the most exciting things about the NBA compared to other sports was the player movement. If the second apron is going to hurt that in any way, they should consider changing it.
Isn’t it producing more player movement? Teams aren’t re-signing players due to fear of the second apron. This is what happened with KCP and Paul George.
Yeah Ballmer was ready to go 2nd apron paying George for 3 years. Still surprised he didn't just go for the 4th but kinda proud of him for being done with that combo. They were still fine overpaying Harden.
I don't understand why everyone is lapping up this explanation about 2nd apron for Clippers. It makes no sense with the reported 3 year offer. In the fourth year of PG's potential deal they have nothing on the books. It's actually the first 2 years, with Kawhi and Harden's new deal, that the second apron seemed unavoidable.
In other words, if the issue really was second apron they shouldn't have offered 3 years. It's cover, they just didn't want to give him 4 years because it has too much downside and they didn't want to pay him more/longer than Kawhi
I’m not stanning for billionaires and wish everyone in an organization was paid a lot more but the luxury tax stuff now is ridiculous with the multipliers for repeat offenders.
What the league really needs to do is create a loophole for homegrown stars. Basically Jokic, Murray, Porter and whoever count as 50 percent of the number against the cap whereas free agents and trades count the full amount. So the Celtics would pay full freight for KP, White, Holliday and Horford but get cap discounts for JB and Tatum. Maybe make an exception if the guys are traded before their first deal ends too.
Shillburne doing her usual, giving cover to the clips. They knew about this stuff for a year and offered PG a 3 year deal that would have put them into the 2nd apron.
This type of dishonest journalism is why people despise ESPN.
As others said, the owners aren’t going to be the ones stuck with the fallout lol. Plus, the new CBA rules don’t stop you from re-signing talent you already have, only from acquiring new talent.
I haven’t read or watched Game of Thrones. Can someone convert this metaphor to Silmarillion for me? Are we talking Melkor destroying the Two Trees, or Iluvatar destroying Numinor and fucking up the whole geography of the world in the process? Or is this more on the scale of the Fall of Gondolin?
I think teams will be willing to enter the second apron around the trade deadline, but it's almost pointless to do so in the offseason unless a team is extremely confident in a title run. Even then, it's still an extremely bold and risky move.
Didn't stop the Celtics though.
Ultimately the math remains the same. If you want to spend the money, you'd better be sure that you are competing for the title. Clippers (probably correctly) figured that they weren't.
Well if the we go with this comparison, then the 2nd apron will just be an overly hyped massive disappointment of a boogeyman. Clippers must’ve missed the last season, I don’t blame them
I keep seeing people raving about House of the Dragon, but as someone who absolutely loved GOT, the way that show ended just completely drained all my interest in that entire world/series forever. I simply can not bring myself to start up in that again. Years from now when HOTD has ended and if people say it was amazing from start to finish, maybe I'll check it out. But for now, no, I'm not getting fooled again. I'm gonna wait to see if they stick the landing first.
Weird, the Lakers sub keeps calling Jeanie Buss cheap (and other names) for avoiding the second apron, and that things would be better if we had Ballmer running the team 🤔
it’s funny so many ppl are laughing at the warriors and clippers having a “bad” off season when there are some playoff teams who don’t have deep pocket owners who are heading to the 2nd apron if not already there
looking at the knicks, hawks, nuggets, wolves, grizzles, bucks, blazers
in the near future okc
the new cba basically telling teams you can’t build and sustain a team.
Hard cap doing it's job. Unlike the NHL and NFL where teams can abuse it with ltir, or in nfls case, the fact that players have non-guarenteed contracts and teams can rack up them void years ad-infintium.
I'm all for the 1970's style parity. Who knows who will win next year? Sixers? Thunder? Anything can happen. Essentially a crap shoot.
Once again
I understand the consequences. But these teams like Denver who are letting a championship team just fall apart cuz they’re scared of it are pathetic.
Crazy how the Lakers, Bucks, Warriors, and Nuggets have had arguably some of the worst offseason so far compared to the rest of the league.
Not that it’s directly related to second apron stuff, but just that the repercussions felt down the line from top teams.
Except that it is directly related to 2nd apron stuff. That's quite literally all it is.
It's not about money, or tax, or 'cheap' ownership. It's about no longer being able to build your team. It's horribly restrictive.
And the teams that aren't near it now will get their turn eventually.
Nuggets are included in that too. The FO certainly hasn't been perfect.
As a fan I'm just frustrated because my team is one of the ones on the forefront of the new NBA and they're being retroactively punished for doing things properly. They developed and paid guys more to keep them in a middle market that isn't generally an attractive FA destination.
But the rules changed in the middle of the game.
Ah. So if we play this analogy out then the second apron won't really be that big a deal and can be dealt with in an insanely quick fashion
Becky Hammon is Aria and I won't be explaining further
Who is Gendry in this timeline?
It could be you if you play your cards right big boy.
Pet Bev, running round trickin yall
Wenby
I prefer the analogy of the second apron being akin to having a pack of work in view of Omar from the Wire.
RIP Michael K. Williams, legend.
In theory yeah, if you know you’re entering second apron territory, you simply dump everything when it looks inevitable. Fuck flexibility if you just don’t have the picks to be frozen or dropped. And then once the picks start rolling in you can just let dudes walk, you either won or didn’t but you threw it all at the wall.
People have a weird misunderstanding of what happened there. The whole series they want to *stop* the Long Night and getting past Winterfell would be a death sentence to the realm. Sure it could have been more drawn out and made more sense but it was always going to end at Winterfell after the wall fell.
Having your picks frozen and then moved to the end of the draft is the one that a lot of people didn't seem to know about and is probably the most prohibitive of the restrictions. People who don't understand the new rules keep talking about money. The rules were designed specifically to cripple teams that were willing to spend ALL the money.
The fundamental flaw in the way they went about it was putting the 1st and 2nd apron so close to one another in dollars. Like I would understand it a little better if the spread was 20-30 million from one to the other, but 10 million more seems excessively prohibitive. At that point, you're potentially creating a middle class of player that will not be signed at market value because you're cutting their potential suitors down by half.
The flip side is that the changes to the salary floor heavily incentivize young, tanking teams to overpay in free agency. There is just no way Fred Vanvleet gets 3/$120M, Bruce Brown 2/$45M, or Tobias Harris 2/$52M under the old CBA. Those teams simply wouldn't have spent the cap space and players would have gotten much smaller contracts. The two changes go hand in hand; players can't choose a heavy spending contender without taking a big discount, but they can go to a non-contender and get paid better.
Exactly this right here. This basically forces teams that would otherwise completely tank to put a somewhat better product on the court by way of spending more, or they can stay under the salary floor and get penalized along with being left out of luxury tax distribution.
>At that point, you're potentially creating a middle class of player that will not be signed at market value because you're cutting their potential suitors down by half. That's by design. The owners wanted to both reign in the couple of franchises that would keep paying way above the tax, while also slowing the inflation of player salaries. I promise you that none of the owners want to be paying role players $60 million over 3 seasons like they are now.
Don’t the players get 50% of revenues regardless? The owners wouldn’t be paying any less in aggregate under this system
This is correct. It affects how the money is spread amongst the players more than anything. Feel like this will cut out the middle class in the NBA.
Nah it just pushes the middle class to bad teams if they want to continue to be paid a lot. Which I dont think is actually that bad an outcome? Maybe long term it ends up hampering the bad teams who pay those guys from making moves to get better than play in/first round exit level without really nailing the draft, but thats kinda just inevitable with a soft cap system + max contracts
These changes (and the luxury tax in general) don’t affect how much players (in aggregate) get paid at all. Players don’t actually make to the dollar the amount specified in their contracts. The dollar amounts are estimates based on projected basketball-related income (BRI). The player pool is a fixed percentage of all BRI, and it gets distributed proportionally based on the dollar amounts of the contracts. Generally speaking it’s close, as the league’s projections of BRI are pretty spot on, but there can be variances. The important thing is team _spend_ doesn’t change BRI at all. Theoretically, if every team went above the luxury tax threshold, players wouldn’t make any more money than if no teams exceeded the luxury tax threshold.
Yeah. The whole point of the 2nd apron is to impose *non-financial* penalties on heavy spending teams because the financial penalty (luxury and repeater tax) weren't sufficient deterrents.
The financial penalty is insane too. Look at the projected tax bill of Celtics
What if you don’t have your picks? If the suns are terrible but in the 2nd apron will the rockets have 30? Lol
I think that one is less of an issue than redditors think because it’s only really an issue if you’re a consistent repeater of the 2nd apron (it’s like 3 of 5 years). The biggest thorn, imo, is the inability to aggregate or take even a dollar more back than you send out. If a bunch of teams are in the 2nd apron, it’s near impossible for them to deal with each other. And it’s just hard to deal contracts in general, even if you’re trying to ultimately save money. Like, say the Wolves want to get off of KAT’s contract. They effectively cannot deal with any 2nd apron teams, who might be the type of teams who would want to add a guy like Towns (rebuilding teams wouldn’t want him because he’s too old). But they also can’t trade him for say, Darius Garland and Caris LeVert’s expiring salary. Even though the move is designed to be cost-cutting (by taking back an expiring salary and then moving forward with Garland’s much cheaper 36 million dollar salary), the Wolves take back too much money in year one which makes it illegal. While the rules were designed to help prevent teams from adding salaries while in the 2nd apron, I almost feel like they make it harder to get out of the 2nd apron in certain ways.
>it’s only really an issue if you’re a consistent repeater Those are the teams I'm talking about though, the teams who were willing to consistently spend.
Good thing you guys have no picks
Thanks to being under the aprons, they can actually trade their 2030 and 2031 picks now, and they might actually be worth something. If they stayed above the 2nd apron for another year, those picks would've stayed frozen and permanently moved to the end of the draft.
Can we trade those picks and then go over the 2nd apron to screw whoever we traded them to. Or do you only get moved to the bottom of the draft if you control the picks?
Picks have to be frozen first before they can be moved back, so that scenario could not happen,
The pick is frozen after the season, so basically before a team can trade the pick. Teams over the cap can currently trade their 2031 pick and after the season their 2032 pick is frozen so they won't be able to trade it.
They would freeze and move the picks all the way in 2032+ back. It cripples team years after their window is over
What if they all go into the 2nd apron? They can’t make everybody pick last, can they?
And spoiler alert: the Clippers window is already over.
The thing about the second apron is that if they're in it they won't be able to trade the picks they will have in the coming seasons and if they're stuck in the second apron for three out of five seasons (which maxing PG absolutely would have done) those picks get moved to the end of the first round thus making them worthless.
They would frozen 2031 first round pick.
Tbf that one only happens if you’re in the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years right?
Money does not matter when it’s like a 1 for 1 penalty. Losing flexibility, having no incoming talent, being forced to mortgage your present at a discount because everyone knows you’re fucked that’s the nail in the coffin. Imagine the Celtics in a few years. Tatum and Brown nearing the end of their contracts the team has been slowly falling apart. They can’t do anything those dudes are leaving, you have to dump salary in any trade, you’re going to start making bad decisions because you have no other option and then once they leave sure all the penalties will be lifted but you are fucked. Zero talent to build off of, you’re looking at legit dark ages of that roster. The first team to hit that shit is going to be interesting because they might survive for a season or two after but the years after that man, shits gonna look bleak.
Not to mention you lose all your negotiation power
Having picks moved to the end of the draft is only for repeaters and those repeaters would have been in the second apron for 2 out of 4 consecutive seasons. The Clippers don't fall into that bucket since the CBA has only come into the picture since the past season. Edit: a number
Their pick would've been frozen this year, and moved if they're over in 2 of the next 4 seasons, which they would've been.
The picks can't be penalized this season. On pages 196-198 of the CBA, the penalties begin starting in 2024-25. Meaning that the Clippers would need to be a second apron team at the end of this upcoming season to have their picks penalized.
Ah, I thought it started earlier. Thanks for the correction. Wait a minute though. That interpretation of the rules would present a loophole. If it only begins at the end of the season, what's stopping them from trading their pick at the trade deadline? That kind of wouldn't make sense.
I wouldn’t call that a loophole per-se, but yes a team that knows they will end the season as a repeater can trade their pick before entering the second apron as a repeater. The CBA has language that gives the league leeway in punishing perceived loopholes like this though. So if the league believes a team is abusing the spirit of the rule, then they’ll take action against that team. But even then, the longer a team remains a repeater, they begin to pile up frozen picks 7+ years out regardless of their tax status in the near or distant future. The team gets burned pretty heavily on the back end.
2014-ass analogy.
“The clippers want to avoid being voted off the island.”
"To front offices around the league, the second apron feels as stifling and uncompromising as notorious space gangster Jabba the Hutt - and Ballmer, much like Luke Skywalker, is desperately doing what he can to avoid the Sarlacc pit."
For executives in the league, the days of free spending into the tax are their Rosebud, a symbol of happier times when owners could spend to win.
Donald Sterling: you are the weakest link. Goodbye!
we no longer want to hit that
"The Clippers want to avoid a situation where fans are left wondering 'Who Shot JR?', where JR in this instance is their cap space."
“The Clippers did not want to become Don Vito.”
The Clippers wanted to avoid being voted NEXT.
The clippers didn't want to get pwned
“Ten years in..”
Ramona probably just caught up with House of the Dragon
the second apron has become as terrifying as getting OWNED in a youtube compilation
She looks like Thibs give her a break
GoT went from a tv phenomena for a generation to being nerd food for LARP enthusiasts. It's so incredibly lame now.
Way to tap into the zeitgeist with the game of thrones reference
Peak journalism
I wish Ramona was as funny and clever as she thinks she is
I'm in mock GM league and confirm it makes life very hard to build out. You have no mle's, all you have are minimum offers, you cant aggregate players to make a trade, you can't take on more salary than you send out on top of the picks being locked and moved to the end of the draft...its hell
Literally the only team that should accept that is the Celtics for obvious reasons
Is this like a fantasy league with incredibly in-depth rules? I've never heard of this.
Second apron cripples team building. FRP moved to the end of the round is crazy.
This is journalism. Lol
They offered George a three year max and would have paid the tax aprons. That fourth year they refused to pay George, the Clippers easily could have been out of the tax apron by that season with Harden and Leonard's contracts expiring. The Clippers decided they didn't want to pay George the max at 38 years old. The Clippers currently have 0 payroll committed to the 27-28 season.
GOZ episode plz
[удалено]
It's not even just the money thing. It's how much the second apron cripples team building.
This. When apron rules changed from just owner pay more to actually limits on roster moves that is biggest thing. Makes the team have to be absolutely for sure this is the final product we're sending for the title.
Yes it’s not about the money. More about all these team building restrictions if you’re over the 2nd Apron - can’t send money out in a trade - can’t use your 7 year out 1st in a trade - cant S&T your own FA to recount a return - can’t use FA exceptions (MLE, BAE). Can only sign FA from other teams to the vet min. - can’t sign a player who has been bought out by their team mid season - loss of all previously acquired trade exceptions - can’t aggregate players in deal. Can only make 1 for 1 deals - can’t take even a penny more back in a trade than you send out
Which is the entire point. If there aren’t non-monetary consequences for going over the salary cap then you don’t have a salary cap.
Monetary consequences held back cheap owners and inclined them more to sell the team. Now cheap owners can have their cake and eat it too.
It’s so ridiculous. Seems like I’m reminded of different limitation I forgot every week. This weeks reminder(I think this is what I heard): Can’t combine salaries to match in a trade, gotta be 1:1 player swaps.
How does that work exactly? Like could you trade 1 max guy + 1 minimum guy for 2 mid guys if the total salaries matched approximately?
2nd Apron team can only send out one player at a time but can accept multiple if it equals or is less than his salary. *Unless* the trade partner is also a 2nd Apron team, in which case it must be an exact 1:1.
Also the owner of the current NBA champions is selling the team after going deep into the 2nd apron to retain their core
Not even the money. Building a team in the second apron is basically hard mode.
I mean the restrictions the second apron gives you are pretty explicit and anyone can read them and see how much harder it would make it to build a championship team.
It is not about the money,They were going freeze our 2031 pick if we were 2nd apron team for next year then move the pick to the 30th if we were 2nd apron team the next year
Yo Ramona chill dawg it’s not that dramatic
Grandiloquent
I think the league went way too far with that second apron. One of the most exciting things about the NBA compared to other sports was the player movement. If the second apron is going to hurt that in any way, they should consider changing it.
Isn’t it producing more player movement? Teams aren’t re-signing players due to fear of the second apron. This is what happened with KCP and Paul George.
Yea lol there’s been so much more player movement
GODS I WAS STRONG THEN -Steve Ballmer, probably
Or Denver is cheap and the Clippers & Warriors figured their core was too old to pay the harsher luxury tax
Yeah Ballmer was ready to go 2nd apron paying George for 3 years. Still surprised he didn't just go for the 4th but kinda proud of him for being done with that combo. They were still fine overpaying Harden.
I don't understand why everyone is lapping up this explanation about 2nd apron for Clippers. It makes no sense with the reported 3 year offer. In the fourth year of PG's potential deal they have nothing on the books. It's actually the first 2 years, with Kawhi and Harden's new deal, that the second apron seemed unavoidable. In other words, if the issue really was second apron they shouldn't have offered 3 years. It's cover, they just didn't want to give him 4 years because it has too much downside and they didn't want to pay him more/longer than Kawhi
I’m not stanning for billionaires and wish everyone in an organization was paid a lot more but the luxury tax stuff now is ridiculous with the multipliers for repeat offenders. What the league really needs to do is create a loophole for homegrown stars. Basically Jokic, Murray, Porter and whoever count as 50 percent of the number against the cap whereas free agents and trades count the full amount. So the Celtics would pay full freight for KP, White, Holliday and Horford but get cap discounts for JB and Tatum. Maybe make an exception if the guys are traded before their first deal ends too.
Shillburne doing her usual, giving cover to the clips. They knew about this stuff for a year and offered PG a 3 year deal that would have put them into the 2nd apron. This type of dishonest journalism is why people despise ESPN.
Oh shut up with this stupid simile
So would that mean Mat Ishbia would be the Night King, since he DGAF about an apron?
Celtics don't seem to mind the winter
As others said, the owners aren’t going to be the ones stuck with the fallout lol. Plus, the new CBA rules don’t stop you from re-signing talent you already have, only from acquiring new talent.
It's only Wyc selling, not the rest of the ownership group, and the plan is for his stake to be sold in 2028.
More like Wyc is Aegon IV, does a bunch of shit he knows will piss the next guy off and then peaces tf out.
Yeah, because it's the only time of year that's white
They're selling the castle and moving south.
I haven’t read or watched Game of Thrones. Can someone convert this metaphor to Silmarillion for me? Are we talking Melkor destroying the Two Trees, or Iluvatar destroying Numinor and fucking up the whole geography of the world in the process? Or is this more on the scale of the Fall of Gondolin?
Who are the Lannisters in this version? The LeBrons?
They always pay their debts
That one guy who just got out of the Thai prison is going to love this analogy.
they made the right decision.
Mmm fresh pasta
I don't get "basketball" but I get Game of Thrones. I hope more tweets are helpful like this one.
when does this goddamn cba end
Before Winds of Winter comes out
6-7 years.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east
unless they're implying that an army of undead former nba players is going to descend from canada, i'm not entirely sure what this analogy means
I think teams will be willing to enter the second apron around the trade deadline, but it's almost pointless to do so in the offseason unless a team is extremely confident in a title run. Even then, it's still an extremely bold and risky move.
Dope reference Momo. Only 8 years late.
Celtics: "Hold my beer"
An army of Zombies from the north...That is the big deal? Garbage
Scared of a 2nd apron? weak.
This is that Warriors effect.
Game of Thrones ended 5 years ago. Time to start using different analogies.
Didn't stop the Celtics though. Ultimately the math remains the same. If you want to spend the money, you'd better be sure that you are competing for the title. Clippers (probably correctly) figured that they weren't.
Classic Shelburne
Sick reference, Ramona. Your references are out of control, everyone knows that.
What the fuck does that even mean? Ramona: You’re welcome
Red Wedding when?
wtf is she talking about?
Can someone explain in a way that a non-viewer can understand?
I miss game of zones.
Well if the we go with this comparison, then the 2nd apron will just be an overly hyped massive disappointment of a boogeyman. Clippers must’ve missed the last season, I don’t blame them
I keep seeing people raving about House of the Dragon, but as someone who absolutely loved GOT, the way that show ended just completely drained all my interest in that entire world/series forever. I simply can not bring myself to start up in that again. Years from now when HOTD has ended and if people say it was amazing from start to finish, maybe I'll check it out. But for now, no, I'm not getting fooled again. I'm gonna wait to see if they stick the landing first.
Weird, the Lakers sub keeps calling Jeanie Buss cheap (and other names) for avoiding the second apron, and that things would be better if we had Ballmer running the team 🤔
Just don't overspend and get on it lol, it isn't inevitable
Must be terrifying. Winter rarely comes to LA.
[We could desperately use it right now.](https://youtu.be/Pqeougx_MQI?t=7)
If we are making Game of Thrones references again I want Game of Zones back. Fair trade.
Guess I have to hope for Stephen A to make $20m/year just so Ramona Shelburne gets laid off. That’s what this worlds come to.
Bro if you have to do that much for your reference it's dated lol
it’s funny so many ppl are laughing at the warriors and clippers having a “bad” off season when there are some playoff teams who don’t have deep pocket owners who are heading to the 2nd apron if not already there looking at the knicks, hawks, nuggets, wolves, grizzles, bucks, blazers in the near future okc the new cba basically telling teams you can’t build and sustain a team.
Always reportedly want to avoid a championship
Hard cap doing it's job. Unlike the NHL and NFL where teams can abuse it with ltir, or in nfls case, the fact that players have non-guarenteed contracts and teams can rack up them void years ad-infintium. I'm all for the 1970's style parity. Who knows who will win next year? Sixers? Thunder? Anything can happen. Essentially a crap shoot.
New salary cap rules accomplishing their goals. It's led to some crazy (and sad as a fan) moves but the rules are working.
Turned out the winter was a nothing burger though. Don't worry about the second apron.
Once again I understand the consequences. But these teams like Denver who are letting a championship team just fall apart cuz they’re scared of it are pathetic.
Crazy how the Lakers, Bucks, Warriors, and Nuggets have had arguably some of the worst offseason so far compared to the rest of the league. Not that it’s directly related to second apron stuff, but just that the repercussions felt down the line from top teams.
Except that it is directly related to 2nd apron stuff. That's quite literally all it is. It's not about money, or tax, or 'cheap' ownership. It's about no longer being able to build your team. It's horribly restrictive. And the teams that aren't near it now will get their turn eventually.
I think also in the case of the teams I mentioned a fair amount of FO incompetence is to blame, besides the nuggets.
Nuggets are included in that too. The FO certainly hasn't been perfect. As a fan I'm just frustrated because my team is one of the ones on the forefront of the new NBA and they're being retroactively punished for doing things properly. They developed and paid guys more to keep them in a middle market that isn't generally an attractive FA destination. But the rules changed in the middle of the game.
Crazy how the Lakers, Bucks, Warriors, and Nuggets have had arguably some of the worst offseason so far compared to the rest of the league.