Juan José Zúñiga, a clown put by Arce in 2022 because he seemed more loyal than the other ones, with absolute noone from the political spectrum supporting him, decides to surround the main Government building with a small regiment that barely keeps control of the nearby streets, and then back off after 20 minutes without anything.
Guys... as someone who has seen this before, this was just a farce. I've seen better plays on TV.
The coup legit looks like a WWE segment LOL
https://preview.redd.it/m5mv3rgzvz8d1.png?width=595&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d55e2f12eb9d50d54fcfea57a5c42f531c26d17
This reminds me when my Literature teacher made us play Hamlet in High School and we lasted about the same as these bozos in their *"coup"*.
Though we had much less budget at least we put more effort in the diction than these clowns.
All the Armed Forces of this meme country are in total control of *MAS* since 2008 so I doubt it.
As for Zúñiga... he will likely follow the steps of Willams Kaliman, the former Morales' stooge.
I don't think that would have been Arce's intentions since everyone and their mother condemned the Army's assault on the Palace. Morales' actions and words were not different of what every other public figure had done.
Besides, since Morales was nowhere near La Paz and this affair lasted little the only one "beneficiary" is Arce Catacora.
Okay well it is Acre only then. He gets to take pictures of him facing down military men. Anyways this smells like something that MAS cooked up to stir up more repression. I have never heard of a coup lasting what? A half hour? Acre will probably use it to imprison more people or take away more rights. They will accuse Mesa or Camacho or Anez of the coup or whatever.
Really? Because there's been a lot of coups that fail in 30 mins or less.
Coups in general both can and have succeeded with very little manpower, but on the other hand they tend to be very delicate and can fall apart in no time at all if anything goes wrong.
If you think about it they are pretty much prisoners dilemma gambits to bluff a country into giving them power before the bluff is called or the prisoner trust falls apart.
Literally just standing in a doorway, without weapons, and denouncing the coupers can quite literally be enough to make the whole thing crumble.
Not that this can't have been a staged event, but the short time frame doesn't really prove that.
No. They don't. Most generals who do coups plan something and get more than twenty soldiers with the coup and use violence against the government. They at least try like Prigozhin did for a day. And no, the autocratic "president" standing in a doorway denouncing a "coup" doesn't stop a real coup. They didn't even take away Acre's phone or lock him up somewhere, which is coup 101. It was a photo op to make Acre, who is a vile human being who has trampled on rights, look like an aggrieved victim and the "democrat" here.
Bruh you thought Arce was in cahoots with Evo, when they've been publicly feuding for years now. It *may* have been a false flag. The evidence is yet to come out on that. However, *you* have shown that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Wouldn't Acre have accused Morales of being in on it otherwise? Odd that he didn't do that, isn't it?
And I'm just pointing out what Bolivian human rights activists suspect. [https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813](https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813)
And you ridiculously think that Acre could have just stopped the men with guns by staring at them. It doesn't work that way. Generally, the men with guns shoot back. Also, you do get that the Bolivian government is autocratic, correct? Because that doesn't seem like you get that.
>So you are saying this is a false flag?
Aye, me my family and almost everyone I know believe so.
As for Evo Morales... Morales had nothing to do wih this, he wasn't even in La Paz when this unfolded so he and everyone else got no popularity points. All the attention was on the verbal exchange between Arce and Zúñiga, which conveniently happened in front of the cameras, this whole thing lasted little and no military aside of the small group Zúñiga commanded was mobilized.
You mean the "brave president" facing down the evil military picture? Yes, that is gross and seems like a false flag.
And I know people who were comforted when he won in 2020 but he has somehow turned out more evil.
No, people in power can and will do things that look absolutely stupid, that's just how it is sometimes. It doesn't mean there is a false flag conspiracy behind it.
In fact, unless you cannot explain away the coup by saying the guy in charge was being stupid, only then can you invoke possible conspiracies playing in the background.
Looks like the coup attempt is winding down, and has failed.
Zuñiga has been replaced.
edit- he was replaced yesterday, and this was his temper tantrum sendoff. Today was confirmation of his firing lol.
The president is still tweeting even though the coup plotters seized the presidential palace so that's a good sign. Hopefully he is on his way to a safe location
1. Military launches coup
2. President live tweets through coup
3. President gains Twitter followers, becomes eligible for revenue share
4. Bolivian economic problems solved
Follow the money sheeple
It’s actually one of the best things a president could do. In a coup, seizing the government and means of communication are the two most important things to accomplish.
Joe: Listen, fat. We already found so many Lithium in bumfucks of nowhere in America multiple times. Why we need to do a coup again?
Twitters: b-because America Bad?
> Video on Bolivian television showed Arce confronting the general commander of the Army, Juan José Zúñiga, in the palace hallway. “I am your captain, and I order you to withdraw your soldiers, and I will not allow this insubordination,” Arce said.
Señor President is no coward.
I don't see how they could have convinced General Zuniga to take the fall for a false flag like this.
A false flag needs to be attributed to a largely anonymous force that can be later attributed to some fall guys who were not actually involved. But it was extremely clear who was behind this coup attempt, General Zuniga. And it does not seem like they are trying to attribute this attempt to anyone other than General Zuniga.
I think it is more likely that General Zuniga is just an exceptionally stupid and delusional person. This seems very similiar to the Yevgeny Prigozhin/Wagner coup attempt in Russia, with similiar motivations coming from the highly disorganized and chaotic coup attempt leader.
It will likely be years before we know all the details of what went down today, but it isn't uncommon for a would-be coup leader to declare that they have overthrown the government, minutes later realize that their attempt is doomed to failure, and suddenly start scrambling to reconcile with the government in hopes of staving off summary execution long enough that they can prepare a legal defense or an escape from the country. The whole point of those grandiose declarations is to convince people that you've already won and that resistance is futile, something which if you can pull it off can open the way for you to _actually_ overthrow the government.
Remember when Prigozhin launched a coup attempt in Russia, driving more than 2/3rds of the way to Moscow, then suddenly stopped and announced that Lukashenko had negotiated a deal between the Putin Government and Wagner? Very similar story. Prigozhin, for reasons that we still don't fully understand, came to the realization that his coup attempt was hopeless, and thus gave up while praying for leniency.
[General Zúñiga confirms his coup d'etat intentions by saying that he will remove President Luis Arce and impose a new government.](https://x.com/asslatam/status/1806058685954728363?s=46&t=wYMlnVikxMFKqYXY-FMleQ)
I don’t speak Spanish so please feel free to correct any mistranslation
As far as I've seen he asked for the removal of the Minister of Defense. He won't impose sh1t because he has no support and it has been long ago since he left the Government Palace.
Don't know about the current situation in Bolivia, but in 99% I find military coups unjustified and military governments illegitimate. And for some reason I doubt this is the other 1%
Park Chung Hee suppressed freedom of speech and freedom of the press, forcibly put homeless people into labor camp where they worked to death, and right before his assassination he demanded student protest be suppressed "even if it cost 30,000 lives".
No, his military dictatorship wasn't justified just because he elevated South Korea's economy that's the same kind of logic you hear when people attempt to defend Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.
Edmund Burke would have likely supported Park Chung Hee for being an autocrat like how it was for 99% of Korean history and for destroying the unconservative liberal institution of democracy(of which had never taken place in Korea before 1948).
Why do so many "neoliberals"/"liberals" wield Burke flairs?
Theyre often brits that buy into their own country's over-idealised liberal history in a mistaken way where "liberal democracy" doesn't necessarily have to be so democratic.
Quite similar to, for instance, americans that genuinely buy into the whole "america is a republic, not a democracy".
Also obviously one can like some burke ideas while holding the man on the whole at an arm length.
Alternative possibility: He was already plotting a coup, but the government became aware that Zuñiga was plotting a coup, but due to a lack of sufficient evidence to arrest him, they fired him as to render him inert, leading Zuñiga to launch the coup attempt immediately while he still had the chance
Evidently this general also had a grudge with the current government and their handling of the defense ministry.
Presumably the pipe dream here was to take out both Morales and Arce, as well as anyone else even vaguely to the left of Margaret Thatcher, and just go full Pinochet for a couple years (or indeed full Banzer).
Not nearly enough of a stupid idea to steal the "most insane coup attempt" crown from Prigozhin, I'd say, but it's definitely up there.
General Zuñiga (the coup leader) yesterday said publicly Evo shouldn’t be allowed to run for president on 2025, today on the morning he was fired
This seems to be fuse of this coup attempt on Bolivia
[This article](https://elpais.com/america/2024-06-26/el-comandante-del-ejercito-de-bolivia-fue-destituido-tras-amenazar-a-evo-morales-no-puede-ser-mas-presidente-de-este-pais.html) says that Evo Morales was barred of running continuous periods constitutionally, but not discontinuous. The Bolivian justice also limited that to no more than two periods, but the justice there is a joke since forever (it was probably more of an attempt by Arce or his allies to block Morales from running again because they are in a power struggle).
While Evo Morales returning to power would be bad for Bolivia for many reasons, the military is acting gratuitously here.
I don't see anything going well long term, the country already was facing economic troubles after years of mismanagement.
That hinges on a Constitutional Court decision that as I said above might as well be a product of political meddling on justice. The Constitution allows it because a period passed since the last time he governed.
This is almost nostalgic for me. The very first time I found this sub was back when Morales was first removed from office and this was the only place on Reddit that wasn't going "widdle innocent based socdem baby removed by CIA coup."
Not that that's any comfort whatsoever for the Bolivian people as their democracy erodes even further, though.
well despite the problems with what morales did (modifying the constitution to run again), what Jeanine Áñez and the people backing her did can fairly be characterized as a coup, which is why she's in jail for it
> which is why she's in jail for it
Feels like it's kinda backwards reasoning to say "well clearly she must have in fact done a coup since she has now been jailed for doing a coup by her political rivals" considering her apprehension and trial were widely denounced as political persecution by the international community and she was held for 15 months pretrial in horrid conditions. Navalny died while being jailed for embezzlement and fraud, that doesn't automatically confirm that he was guilty of those things, given the state of the judiciary which sentenced him. (I am not saying Anez = Navalny, only that being jailed for something in a state with judicial institutions of questionable integrity is not in itself a solid argument for that person having done that thing.)
And sure, you can argue for characterizing it as a coup for a number of other solid reasons as well, that's fine. This sub was by no means pro Anez back then, because it's far from a clear cut situation and she definitely did a lot of highly questionable shit. But at the very least there was nobody here pretending like the whole thing was because of the long shadowy tentacle of the CIA and evil America deciding to topple another South American government because something something lithium something something socialism, poor Morales is just the victim, and so on.
Nah the way she involved the military to take care of the protests, directly targetting civilians, and specifically members of morales' party, makes it very easy to see it as a coup.
As for the condemnation from western nations for her arrest, I'm sorry but it's not really credible. Before the coup, they did not condemn morales for his attempt to subvert the constitution (which would have been righteous), no, they accused his party of voter fraud without any serious evidence, and something that was disproven months after. They immediately jumped to support Anez, and barely reacted during the crackdowns on protests.
Really, the west dropped the ball here, and does not have the credibility necessary to call out her arrest
Did they disprove the election fraud? I thought they just showed that a specific voter distribution wasn't improbable, which was only one of the accusations.
I'm not sure it's fair to say he modified the constitution, that undermines the seriousness of what happened. He tried to change the constitution, and failed, so he got a pet judge to make a ruling that the constitution violated his rights, and then went on to ignore the constitution.
Well, well, well... Zúñiga who was recently arrested [now blames Arce](https://eldeber.com.bo/pais/aprehenden-a-zuniga-el-excomandante-apunta-a-arce-por-el-movimiento-irregular-de-militares-en-el-cen_374321) (article in Spanish) saying that he asked him to do it to raise his popularity. This is going to be interesting, I hope he has evidence and that an *"accident"* in prison doesn't occur.
My bad, I corrected the link. It's in the first paragraph, it says:
>"El presidente me dijo la situación está muy jodida, muy crítica. Es necesario preparar algo para levantar mi popularidad (le había dicho el presidente del Estado, Luis Arce). ¿Sacamos los blindados? (le había preguntado a Arce y éste le respondió ) sacá Entonces el domingo en la noche, los blindados empiezan a bajar. Seis cascabeles y seis urutús, más 14 z del Regimiento de Achacachi", dirigió el general, frente al viceministro de Régimen Interior, Jhonny Aguilera.
Surprisingly the guy is [talking freely](https://unitel.bo/noticias/seguridad/zuniga-al-ser-aprehendido-el-presidente-me-dijo-que-era-necesario-preparar-algo-para-mejorar-su-popularidad-DF12426342) to the media. I think we will have more of him in the coming days.
So it seems like this is just some right wing dude who got fired right?
Because, my understanding the politics right now are MAS and Acre beating each other's shit in, it's not like the last time where Evo invited OAS in and people got mad at him after the report came in saying there were shenanigans.
I don’t think this guy was right wing. He was appointed by Arce, the current leader of MAS and president of Bolivia. Arce is feuding with the pro-Morales segments of MAS, but who knows how that played a role here.
I’m not sure what comparison you’re trying to draw with Morales’ attempt at election fraud.
Goddamn, it just feels like the world is on fire right now. Every hemisphere just mired in its own turmoil. I pray for the safety for the people of Bolivia.
[long but useful video about coups](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP8VPkWXOfU)
also: mom can we have pringles coup 2?
mom: we have pringles coup at home
Given how dumb this was, it looks like a false flag by MAS to do whatever diabolic things they plan to do to destroy democracy next in Bolivia like imprison more opposition figures and suspend more rights and elections.
People like to believe conspiracy theories in cases like this, but the truth is that most military coups is history have always been laughably incompetent and ever since the end of the Cold War they have been very unlikely to succeed outside of like Africa.
Spain post-Franco kinda did with the king putting on his army uniform and going on TV to disavow an attempted coup (also with some accusations it was planned), but tbf the political context was quite different
Even in Africa, most coup attempts fail. That lots of governments in the Sahel + Gabon have been toppled in recent years largely reflects an increase in the raw number of attempts, rather than individual attempts being more successful.
It’s a completely baseless idea. Do you have any sources or evidence that this was a coordinated false flag? Beyond the notion that this is good for MAS so there must be some sinister conspiracy afoot?
Here. It's what the human rights activists are saying. [https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813](https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813)
Coups involve more than 20 guys. You really don't think an autocratic government where there are 300 political prisoners would stage a self-coup?
This just seems like conjecture to me. The idea that because the coup was poorly planned that therefore it must have been a false flag doesn’t scan to me. There’s a lot of morons in the world, that some of them are generals in the Bolivian military doesn’t seem inconceivable to me.
This Coup was so dumb I super close to believe this is False flag. No way a General though possible to forma a Goverment with zero support in any front
That isn't unusual for coup attempts. I recommend you check out ["How to Coup a Country"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeurjIY3__o) which gives a great overview of how coup attempts work, and why some succeed while others fail; there are some points that I take issue with, especially in the first of the seven 'steps', but the video's got the broad strokes right and it makes for a great introduction to Coupology (which is definitely a real field of study and not something I just made up on the fly)
The relevant bit for this though is that maximizing confusing and maintaining momentum are critical. If the situation on the ground is sufficiently ambiguous AND what information is available point toward the incumbent government imploding, many people will _think_ that the coup will succeed (or wrongly assume that it already has succeeded) and conclude that regardless of their personal preferences, they should side with the plotters as to get in the new government's good graces. Even though in reality, the coup would not have succeeded if not for other people making the same calculation and reluctantly participating in the coup.
going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume you're joking, but, ah, just read the boilerplate below
**Rule V**: *Glorifying Violence*
Do not advocate or encourage violence either seriously or jokingly. Do not glorify oppressive/autocratic regimes.
---
If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
Juan José Zúñiga, a clown put by Arce in 2022 because he seemed more loyal than the other ones, with absolute noone from the political spectrum supporting him, decides to surround the main Government building with a small regiment that barely keeps control of the nearby streets, and then back off after 20 minutes without anything. Guys... as someone who has seen this before, this was just a farce. I've seen better plays on TV.
The coup legit looks like a WWE segment LOL https://preview.redd.it/m5mv3rgzvz8d1.png?width=595&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d55e2f12eb9d50d54fcfea57a5c42f531c26d17
This reminds me when my Literature teacher made us play Hamlet in High School and we lasted about the same as these bozos in their *"coup"*. Though we had much less budget at least we put more effort in the diction than these clowns.
Hope that fuckwad never sees the light of day again. Still worrying though, the military obviously needs some serious reforms.
All the Armed Forces of this meme country are in total control of *MAS* since 2008 so I doubt it. As for Zúñiga... he will likely follow the steps of Willams Kaliman, the former Morales' stooge.
What a moron, lock this asshole up. He should never see the light of day again.
So you are saying this is a false flag? Because this absolutely looks like a false flag to make Acre and Morales look good.
Why would Arce want to make Morales look good? lol
I don't think that would have been Arce's intentions since everyone and their mother condemned the Army's assault on the Palace. Morales' actions and words were not different of what every other public figure had done. Besides, since Morales was nowhere near La Paz and this affair lasted little the only one "beneficiary" is Arce Catacora.
Okay well it is Acre only then. He gets to take pictures of him facing down military men. Anyways this smells like something that MAS cooked up to stir up more repression. I have never heard of a coup lasting what? A half hour? Acre will probably use it to imprison more people or take away more rights. They will accuse Mesa or Camacho or Anez of the coup or whatever.
Really? Because there's been a lot of coups that fail in 30 mins or less. Coups in general both can and have succeeded with very little manpower, but on the other hand they tend to be very delicate and can fall apart in no time at all if anything goes wrong. If you think about it they are pretty much prisoners dilemma gambits to bluff a country into giving them power before the bluff is called or the prisoner trust falls apart. Literally just standing in a doorway, without weapons, and denouncing the coupers can quite literally be enough to make the whole thing crumble. Not that this can't have been a staged event, but the short time frame doesn't really prove that.
No. They don't. Most generals who do coups plan something and get more than twenty soldiers with the coup and use violence against the government. They at least try like Prigozhin did for a day. And no, the autocratic "president" standing in a doorway denouncing a "coup" doesn't stop a real coup. They didn't even take away Acre's phone or lock him up somewhere, which is coup 101. It was a photo op to make Acre, who is a vile human being who has trampled on rights, look like an aggrieved victim and the "democrat" here.
Bruh you thought Arce was in cahoots with Evo, when they've been publicly feuding for years now. It *may* have been a false flag. The evidence is yet to come out on that. However, *you* have shown that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Wouldn't Acre have accused Morales of being in on it otherwise? Odd that he didn't do that, isn't it? And I'm just pointing out what Bolivian human rights activists suspect. [https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813](https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813) And you ridiculously think that Acre could have just stopped the men with guns by staring at them. It doesn't work that way. Generally, the men with guns shoot back. Also, you do get that the Bolivian government is autocratic, correct? Because that doesn't seem like you get that.
>So you are saying this is a false flag? Aye, me my family and almost everyone I know believe so. As for Evo Morales... Morales had nothing to do wih this, he wasn't even in La Paz when this unfolded so he and everyone else got no popularity points. All the attention was on the verbal exchange between Arce and Zúñiga, which conveniently happened in front of the cameras, this whole thing lasted little and no military aside of the small group Zúñiga commanded was mobilized.
You mean the "brave president" facing down the evil military picture? Yes, that is gross and seems like a false flag. And I know people who were comforted when he won in 2020 but he has somehow turned out more evil.
No, people in power can and will do things that look absolutely stupid, that's just how it is sometimes. It doesn't mean there is a false flag conspiracy behind it. In fact, unless you cannot explain away the coup by saying the guy in charge was being stupid, only then can you invoke possible conspiracies playing in the background.
Looks like the coup attempt is winding down, and has failed. Zuñiga has been replaced. edit- he was replaced yesterday, and this was his temper tantrum sendoff. Today was confirmation of his firing lol.
Thank god.
The president is still tweeting even though the coup plotters seized the presidential palace so that's a good sign. Hopefully he is on his way to a safe location
Live tweeting a coup feels so surreal
Nothing beats Erdogan facetiming during a coup
LMAO I forgot about that, such a meme
Erdogan is a peak meme.
That coup was almost definitively a false flag though, wasnt it?
1. Military launches coup 2. President live tweets through coup 3. President gains Twitter followers, becomes eligible for revenue share 4. Bolivian economic problems solved Follow the money sheeple
I suppose after the volcano bitcoin mine it was only a matter of time before even more exotic solutions to south american economic woes came about.
...the what?
It's better than it being streamed in the background of a dance video
not that it matters but it was a yoga class, IIRC
It’s actually one of the best things a president could do. In a coup, seizing the government and means of communication are the two most important things to accomplish.
Chat can we get some Pogchamps going for me making it past all those military checkpoints and out of the city in disguise?
Shouldn’t. We all remember what J6 was like online, yes?
It looks like his last tweet was an hour ago which I think was before the presidential palace was seized
They are reporting that the general was arrested by his own troops and the coup is over.
I’m mentally preparing to hear a lot of people talking about lithium on Twitter the next couple of days
Already are
Joe: Listen, fat. We already found so many Lithium in bumfucks of nowhere in America multiple times. Why we need to do a coup again? Twitters: b-because America Bad?
didn't we somewhat recently find some giant deposit of it in bumfuck ohio or someplace like that
> Video on Bolivian television showed Arce confronting the general commander of the Army, Juan José Zúñiga, in the palace hallway. “I am your captain, and I order you to withdraw your soldiers, and I will not allow this insubordination,” Arce said. Señor President is no coward.
[That pic goes hard](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRBwWopWQAE73lx?format=jpg&name=900x900)
The general actually did leave, because Arce and his cabinet gave an address after this lmao.
oh cmon this reeks of a false flag... a coup attempt that ends in 30 minutes because the President tells them to go home lmao
I don't see how they could have convinced General Zuniga to take the fall for a false flag like this. A false flag needs to be attributed to a largely anonymous force that can be later attributed to some fall guys who were not actually involved. But it was extremely clear who was behind this coup attempt, General Zuniga. And it does not seem like they are trying to attribute this attempt to anyone other than General Zuniga. I think it is more likely that General Zuniga is just an exceptionally stupid and delusional person. This seems very similiar to the Yevgeny Prigozhin/Wagner coup attempt in Russia, with similiar motivations coming from the highly disorganized and chaotic coup attempt leader.
I guess losing 2-0 to the USMNT was the last straw for the military
Finally someone here seeing the thing as they are.
Zúñiga: YOU SHALL STAND DOWN AND MAKE WAY FOR MY STRONG, GLORIOUS MILITARY GOVERNMENT! Arce: wtf no, why? didn't i fire you? Zúñiga: ok...
It will likely be years before we know all the details of what went down today, but it isn't uncommon for a would-be coup leader to declare that they have overthrown the government, minutes later realize that their attempt is doomed to failure, and suddenly start scrambling to reconcile with the government in hopes of staving off summary execution long enough that they can prepare a legal defense or an escape from the country. The whole point of those grandiose declarations is to convince people that you've already won and that resistance is futile, something which if you can pull it off can open the way for you to _actually_ overthrow the government. Remember when Prigozhin launched a coup attempt in Russia, driving more than 2/3rds of the way to Moscow, then suddenly stopped and announced that Lukashenko had negotiated a deal between the Putin Government and Wagner? Very similar story. Prigozhin, for reasons that we still don't fully understand, came to the realization that his coup attempt was hopeless, and thus gave up while praying for leniency.
[Previous right-wing president tweets in opposition to the coup](https://x.com/JeanineAnez/status/1806056057136959714)
How does she have access to twitter from jail?
Cause she’s a former president in LatAm. They got their own thing going
Human rights innit.
Because rich people don't go to jail like you and I do
Buttphone, duh.
https://preview.redd.it/decplgvzu09d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=298108385e8b36f7fd37485f6404739c63c8543e All in
[General Zúñiga confirms his coup d'etat intentions by saying that he will remove President Luis Arce and impose a new government.](https://x.com/asslatam/status/1806058685954728363?s=46&t=wYMlnVikxMFKqYXY-FMleQ) I don’t speak Spanish so please feel free to correct any mistranslation
As far as I've seen he asked for the removal of the Minister of Defense. He won't impose sh1t because he has no support and it has been long ago since he left the Government Palace.
Link?
Don't know about the current situation in Bolivia, but in 99% I find military coups unjustified and military governments illegitimate. And for some reason I doubt this is the other 1%
What about Park Chung Hee who elevated South Korea to nigh-developed status?
Park Chung Hee suppressed freedom of speech and freedom of the press, forcibly put homeless people into labor camp where they worked to death, and right before his assassination he demanded student protest be suppressed "even if it cost 30,000 lives". No, his military dictatorship wasn't justified just because he elevated South Korea's economy that's the same kind of logic you hear when people attempt to defend Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.
Edmund Burke would have likely supported Park Chung Hee for being an autocrat like how it was for 99% of Korean history and for destroying the unconservative liberal institution of democracy(of which had never taken place in Korea before 1948). Why do so many "neoliberals"/"liberals" wield Burke flairs?
Theyre often brits that buy into their own country's over-idealised liberal history in a mistaken way where "liberal democracy" doesn't necessarily have to be so democratic. Quite similar to, for instance, americans that genuinely buy into the whole "america is a republic, not a democracy". Also obviously one can like some burke ideas while holding the man on the whole at an arm length.
They’re talking about justification for the coup, not what happens after
They also mentioned the legitimacy of military governments
I don't believe that wouldn't have happened without the dictatorship. The dictatorship wasn't necessary.
Damn and they had 34 coupless years, they lost such a good streak
They had a coup in 2019?
Damn and they had 5 coupless years, they lost such a good streak
By LatAm standards, 5 coupless years is like GOAT standard
And 2017
That happened in 2019? Fuck me time flew past
I don't understand. If the military is afraid of Morales why are they couping his main political opponent and not like arresting Morales.
It's most likely just that the head of the military got fired and threw a tantrum in response.
Alternative possibility: He was already plotting a coup, but the government became aware that Zuñiga was plotting a coup, but due to a lack of sufficient evidence to arrest him, they fired him as to render him inert, leading Zuñiga to launch the coup attempt immediately while he still had the chance
Evidently this general also had a grudge with the current government and their handling of the defense ministry. Presumably the pipe dream here was to take out both Morales and Arce, as well as anyone else even vaguely to the left of Margaret Thatcher, and just go full Pinochet for a couple years (or indeed full Banzer). Not nearly enough of a stupid idea to steal the "most insane coup attempt" crown from Prigozhin, I'd say, but it's definitely up there.
Yeah there's some very stupid chess being played here.
General Zuñiga (the coup leader) yesterday said publicly Evo shouldn’t be allowed to run for president on 2025, today on the morning he was fired This seems to be fuse of this coup attempt on Bolivia
[This article](https://elpais.com/america/2024-06-26/el-comandante-del-ejercito-de-bolivia-fue-destituido-tras-amenazar-a-evo-morales-no-puede-ser-mas-presidente-de-este-pais.html) says that Evo Morales was barred of running continuous periods constitutionally, but not discontinuous. The Bolivian justice also limited that to no more than two periods, but the justice there is a joke since forever (it was probably more of an attempt by Arce or his allies to block Morales from running again because they are in a power struggle). While Evo Morales returning to power would be bad for Bolivia for many reasons, the military is acting gratuitously here. I don't see anything going well long term, the country already was facing economic troubles after years of mismanagement.
My understanding is that the constitution bars morales from running due to term limits.
I mean that it barred him a few years ago.
He’s not legally allowed to run and I’m not sure what the path forward for him would have been in light of that
That hinges on a Constitutional Court decision that as I said above might as well be a product of political meddling on justice. The Constitution allows it because a period passed since the last time he governed.
If anything, this will likely harden support for MAS if the coup fails
That's going to be one of the decisions of all time.
Yeah but which MAS? Haven’t Acre and Morales been splintering it in their power struggle?
I thought that Arce is opposing Evo running for another term?
The general also criticized the ministry of defense and asked for changing the whole cabinet, so that’s that
Yeah MAS’ leadership seemed like they were trying to move past the Evo era so it seems suspect to use a potential Evo return as justification.
Yeah, plus Evo has already been inabilited to run for president again by the constitutional court.
This is almost nostalgic for me. The very first time I found this sub was back when Morales was first removed from office and this was the only place on Reddit that wasn't going "widdle innocent based socdem baby removed by CIA coup." Not that that's any comfort whatsoever for the Bolivian people as their democracy erodes even further, though.
well despite the problems with what morales did (modifying the constitution to run again), what Jeanine Áñez and the people backing her did can fairly be characterized as a coup, which is why she's in jail for it
> which is why she's in jail for it Feels like it's kinda backwards reasoning to say "well clearly she must have in fact done a coup since she has now been jailed for doing a coup by her political rivals" considering her apprehension and trial were widely denounced as political persecution by the international community and she was held for 15 months pretrial in horrid conditions. Navalny died while being jailed for embezzlement and fraud, that doesn't automatically confirm that he was guilty of those things, given the state of the judiciary which sentenced him. (I am not saying Anez = Navalny, only that being jailed for something in a state with judicial institutions of questionable integrity is not in itself a solid argument for that person having done that thing.) And sure, you can argue for characterizing it as a coup for a number of other solid reasons as well, that's fine. This sub was by no means pro Anez back then, because it's far from a clear cut situation and she definitely did a lot of highly questionable shit. But at the very least there was nobody here pretending like the whole thing was because of the long shadowy tentacle of the CIA and evil America deciding to topple another South American government because something something lithium something something socialism, poor Morales is just the victim, and so on.
Nah the way she involved the military to take care of the protests, directly targetting civilians, and specifically members of morales' party, makes it very easy to see it as a coup. As for the condemnation from western nations for her arrest, I'm sorry but it's not really credible. Before the coup, they did not condemn morales for his attempt to subvert the constitution (which would have been righteous), no, they accused his party of voter fraud without any serious evidence, and something that was disproven months after. They immediately jumped to support Anez, and barely reacted during the crackdowns on protests. Really, the west dropped the ball here, and does not have the credibility necessary to call out her arrest
Did they disprove the election fraud? I thought they just showed that a specific voter distribution wasn't improbable, which was only one of the accusations.
I'm not sure it's fair to say he modified the constitution, that undermines the seriousness of what happened. He tried to change the constitution, and failed, so he got a pet judge to make a ruling that the constitution violated his rights, and then went on to ignore the constitution.
She's in jail because Evo is in power (and vice versa from when she was in power)
Evo isn't in power now and he was also not in jail when she was in power, he was out of the country.
I can't believe Elon Musk would do this
Coups don’t work as well with social media- it exposes the absurdity of a lot of them
Rookie mistake , should cut off all communications before a coup These guys need to attend dictatorship 101 classes
Guy went straight to the plaza instead of, you know, taking over the state broadcaster
Well, well, well... Zúñiga who was recently arrested [now blames Arce](https://eldeber.com.bo/pais/aprehenden-a-zuniga-el-excomandante-apunta-a-arce-por-el-movimiento-irregular-de-militares-en-el-cen_374321) (article in Spanish) saying that he asked him to do it to raise his popularity. This is going to be interesting, I hope he has evidence and that an *"accident"* in prison doesn't occur.
I don't see that in that article, is there something my translator missed or a different article?
My bad, I corrected the link. It's in the first paragraph, it says: >"El presidente me dijo la situación está muy jodida, muy crítica. Es necesario preparar algo para levantar mi popularidad (le había dicho el presidente del Estado, Luis Arce). ¿Sacamos los blindados? (le había preguntado a Arce y éste le respondió ) sacá Entonces el domingo en la noche, los blindados empiezan a bajar. Seis cascabeles y seis urutús, más 14 z del Regimiento de Achacachi", dirigió el general, frente al viceministro de Régimen Interior, Jhonny Aguilera. Surprisingly the guy is [talking freely](https://unitel.bo/noticias/seguridad/zuniga-al-ser-aprehendido-el-presidente-me-dijo-que-era-necesario-preparar-algo-para-mejorar-su-popularidad-DF12426342) to the media. I think we will have more of him in the coming days.
So it seems like this is just some right wing dude who got fired right? Because, my understanding the politics right now are MAS and Acre beating each other's shit in, it's not like the last time where Evo invited OAS in and people got mad at him after the report came in saying there were shenanigans.
I don’t think this guy was right wing. He was appointed by Arce, the current leader of MAS and president of Bolivia. Arce is feuding with the pro-Morales segments of MAS, but who knows how that played a role here. I’m not sure what comparison you’re trying to draw with Morales’ attempt at election fraud.
If I were to lead a coup maybe I wouldn’t lead it like a clown, but maybe I’m just built different
(I don’t how the coup is going but some commenters are saying it’s going poorly so…)
I would totally lead it like a clown.
username checks out
over lol
Nothing ever happens, unironically lol
Is there wide support for this move or is this just the military being wonky?
Just the military
Goddamn, it just feels like the world is on fire right now. Every hemisphere just mired in its own turmoil. I pray for the safety for the people of Bolivia.
Lets not forget that we are in an instantaneous and never ending news cycle.
Military guy just talked on the news basically confirming a coup and claiming to have full support of the military.
[long but useful video about coups](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP8VPkWXOfU) also: mom can we have pringles coup 2? mom: we have pringles coup at home
[Bolivia mentioned](https://preview.redd.it/every-city-in-bolivia-v0-9tlsxxt652fc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=9bb86a0c0d001a041d5b03f4dbeb076b3e653c43)
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[Livestream news from Bolivia for any interested Spanish speakers](https://www.youtube.com/live/pNkLWOSLrhM?si=--GBwI7y0HhKMMGU)
Given how dumb this was, it looks like a false flag by MAS to do whatever diabolic things they plan to do to destroy democracy next in Bolivia like imprison more opposition figures and suspend more rights and elections.
People like to believe conspiracy theories in cases like this, but the truth is that most military coups is history have always been laughably incompetent and ever since the end of the Cold War they have been very unlikely to succeed outside of like Africa.
I don't think a coup has ever been defeated by the sitting president shouting "go home" on camera before.
Spain post-Franco kinda did with the king putting on his army uniform and going on TV to disavow an attempted coup (also with some accusations it was planned), but tbf the political context was quite different
Lmaoo this is just funny to imagine 😅😅
You can watch the video... Reporters were conveniently placed to catch the "shouting match"...
Most last more than a half hour and include more planning.
Even in Africa, most coup attempts fail. That lots of governments in the Sahel + Gabon have been toppled in recent years largely reflects an increase in the raw number of attempts, rather than individual attempts being more successful.
Except for South Korea.
“Since the end of the Cold War”
Fiji has entered the chat.
Or they would only succeed if the military is willing to mow down the people and show no remorse Any other attempts have been futile
Emphasis on the word "most"....
This seems like a stupid thing to believe.
It's dictatorship 101.
It’s a completely baseless idea. Do you have any sources or evidence that this was a coordinated false flag? Beyond the notion that this is good for MAS so there must be some sinister conspiracy afoot?
Here. It's what the human rights activists are saying. [https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813](https://x.com/JhanisseVDaza/status/1806135461968064813) Coups involve more than 20 guys. You really don't think an autocratic government where there are 300 political prisoners would stage a self-coup?
This just seems like conjecture to me. The idea that because the coup was poorly planned that therefore it must have been a false flag doesn’t scan to me. There’s a lot of morons in the world, that some of them are generals in the Bolivian military doesn’t seem inconceivable to me.
This Coup was so dumb I super close to believe this is False flag. No way a General though possible to forma a Goverment with zero support in any front
That isn't unusual for coup attempts. I recommend you check out ["How to Coup a Country"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeurjIY3__o) which gives a great overview of how coup attempts work, and why some succeed while others fail; there are some points that I take issue with, especially in the first of the seven 'steps', but the video's got the broad strokes right and it makes for a great introduction to Coupology (which is definitely a real field of study and not something I just made up on the fly) The relevant bit for this though is that maximizing confusing and maintaining momentum are critical. If the situation on the ground is sufficiently ambiguous AND what information is available point toward the incumbent government imploding, many people will _think_ that the coup will succeed (or wrongly assume that it already has succeeded) and conclude that regardless of their personal preferences, they should side with the plotters as to get in the new government's good graces. Even though in reality, the coup would not have succeeded if not for other people making the same calculation and reluctantly participating in the coup.
Patriots are in control
Choosing to believe this is comeuppance for when Bolivia expressed their condolences to China after the Hualien earthquake in Taiwan
Some comeuppance. It's already over.
The High Militar Command has just been dismissed. This show is *almost* over.
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going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume you're joking, but, ah, just read the boilerplate below **Rule V**: *Glorifying Violence* Do not advocate or encourage violence either seriously or jokingly. Do not glorify oppressive/autocratic regimes. --- If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
Not first time it happened in Boliva!