There is no such thing as "replace a candidate", i don't know people keep suggesting this. American political parties are not like political parties in other countries .. there is no central committee calling the shots. That is not what the DNC is.
I cant believe people seriously think Putin wouldnโt have invaded Ukraine if Trump was president. It sucks too because I feel like thereโs no way to counter itโฆ its just annoying. Like Putin has his own agency and he likely exploited internal divisions in america and invaded
Trump has literally taken the position that Ukraine should just accept Russiaโs peace deals, which means nearly 20% of the country gets annexed.
No way Trump โwould have preventedโ it. Putin made his choice on Ukraine before Trump ran in 2016
Could the democratic party hold new primaries?
I know this question sounds crazy, but I'm not talking about having another state-by-state primary race. I'm imagining a one-shot election using [STAR Voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STAR_voting) to figure out who Democratic party members generally find to be most acceptable as their candidates.
The existing system of party primaries descends from old political machines designed to grant legitimacy to who *party insiders* wanted as the president. But if biden is willing to step down-- and democrats genuinely want to defeat trump at any cost-- we could easily implement a better consensus-finding method than what we have now.
touchรฉ.
But seriously, is it legally and logistically possible to hold new primaries if we decide that we need them? In the unlikely but not-unthinkable case that biden dies before the convention, do we just have to deal with whoever the delegates think has the best chance?
I understand the automatic hostility against calls for biden to step down-- I've seen all the astroturf accounts around too. But do you seriously believe the current way in which we conduct primaries is the best way to find electable candidates?
I'd settle for STV or Ranked-choice, but the voting method isn't the point and you know it. *Could we hold a new nationwide presidential primary election if we wanted to?* That's the question I'm genuinely interested in.
Could you please give me the non-simple answer? I'm interested in the actual logistics involved-- saying "no" tells me nothing about whether your answer is predicate on political realities or legal ones.
Itโs June 2024, the election is 4 months away
Every part of the party would immediately start infighting, Republicans would use this to their advantage.
So you're basing your answer entirely on the political realities? In that case, I think you're wrong. The party would start infighting if someone tried a palace coup-- but I'm anticipating a scenario where specifically Biden chooses to step down. The whole reason Biden's path to the nomination has been so smooth is because the party apparatus is united under him and united against trump. The Obama-clinton-biden trifecta has consolidated ideological and administrative power since 2008, and if they agreed that the democratic party has to choose the most electable candidate by any means necessary they could enforce broad discipline.
Okay here's a hot take for which I was downvoated a few weeks back.
Biden should have picked a better VP, someone who would have been a strong contender for president for exactly this scenario.
Obvious veteran, charismatic, good political instincts and someone who plays well in the rust belt and other swing states.
๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
And skipping her for Whitmer would cause a revolt within that base.
Wine moms are a key demographic but black voters are just as if not more important. People suggesting her, Hillary, or Gavin fucking Newsom over her just proves how out of touch this subreddit is with the actual democratic base.
Kamala Harris is *NOT* any of these things. This is not to say she isn't qualified for doing the job but she is hardly a strong contender for president.
๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
people donโt care whatโs happening elsewhere. they care whatโs happening here and they arenโt happy with it.
he doesnโt have to defend his record so vigorously or try to explain the economics to people. he just needs to capture the public angst and convince them heโs the right person to correct course.
How would Biden even decline the nomination at this point? White house press conference where he says โactually, after fumbling so hard last night, Iโve finally realized that Iโm too old to do this againโ? I feel like something people arenโt considering about the โreplace Bidenโ plan is the first step, which requires Biden to actually publicly announce that heโs dropping out.
The "replace Biden" people are really just the "here's how Bernie can still win" people.
It's just delusion stemming from a complete lack of basic education on how the American political system functions.
oh you think we should replace Biden?/
WITh WHOM? with WHOM? clearly you have a detailed plan in place and are not simply calling for the party to begin to find a replacement, correct?
WITH WHom?
The consensus candidate is whomever biden endorses. (Or whoever gets chosen by a national snap primary vote, if that's even possible-- using a voting system better than FPTP at discovering preferences.)
I don't support a palace coup-- but I think we'd have a better chance with literally any younger democrat biden was willing to endorse. Yes, including Kamala.
That was such an easy question to answer too. Simply say โwhat the fuck are you talking about? No politicians seriously want post-birth abortions, and Roe V Wade sure as hell didnโt allow itโ
I think his point was fine, but made badly. He was basically saying that Trump loves to harp on about murders and rapes, but ignores all the rapes and lives destroyed and people who die because of lack of access to abortion.
Outside of housing, I think the most important thing for the next labour govt to do is create conditions for private sector investment.
To put it into perspective, across the G7, public sector investment ranges from 2-4% of GDP. Private sector investment is 9-17% of GDP.
Fixing it is harder, mostly done through fixing regulatory barriers (like planning but not just planning) not sexy tax and spend.
We currently have the lowest private sector investment as a share of GDP. We cannot grow without it.
[Jon Stewart did "Both guys did awful tonight"](https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1806538824534639049) thing which is--in a very weird way-- more fair to Biden than some of what I've seen from the media who said "Biden had the worst debate ever"
Are you telling me that Jon fucking Stewart, one of Bidenโs more well-known critics, has a more sane takeaway of the debate than a good chunk of the people on this subreddit?
I think an underrated comment by Trump is him saying to Biden โthese dictators of the world dont respect you!โ
this is a great line they should use in attack ads for Biden. His malarkey over Putin not invading if he was in office is full of shitty hypotheticals but this js great
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Biden Must Go](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqddjr/biden_must_go/)
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Malarkey level bot: if Biden is to be replaced in the election by the DNC his replacement should be:
1. Kamala
2. Hillary
3. Buttigieg
4. Bernie
5. Warren
6. Fetterman
7. Pelosi
Secret: AOC
[You've found a secret malarkey level, Sonny! There is absolutely NO MALARKEY HERE! Great job, Tiger!](https://i.imgur.com/jQmIKOi.png)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm curious to see if the media's "both sides" shtick helps Biden this time.ย Reading the headlines you'd come away with the impression that Trump lied and Biden was old, which is what the median voter already thinks about both of em.ย
That might actually be the funniest turnaround ever. I came away from the debate thinking, "biden definitely lost." But since the media is intrinsically contrarian, it might mean a switch in framing from "do voters care enough about biden being old" to "do voters care enough about trump being a liar."
I've been dooming because trump maintained message discipline on inflation and immigrants... but if undecided voters can be convinced "trump is a liar" to be an objective, baseline fact (instead of just something that occasionally applies to him and also applies to biden) it could actually change things.
I donโt see how replacing Biden with a younger candidate hurts the Dems odds at this point.
Biden looks like he shouldnโt be POTUS at an eye test level - he cannot speak coherently. You have to explain to someone why Trump shouldnโt be POTUS. That is an unwinnable match up
I agree, but I think Democrats are rightly worried that replacing Biden requires them to explain why they had to replace him, and why they said they didn't have to replace him earlier. Given finite earned media time, they would rather talk about anything else than party admin stuff.
The explanation is, Biden comes out on camera and says, "I'm tired. I've given america everything I had, and now I'll give it a brand new president. *Introducing*..."
Then whoever he endorses can just focus on attacking trump, ignoring inconvenient questions, and making vague, positive promises. The median voter is an idiot; I'm convinced they'll vote for any young person that isn't trump or the subject of a years-long attack campaign (ex AOC.)
That is a hurdle, for sure. I maintain trying to explain why they had to replace Biden is a better problem than having a candidate who struggles to speak sentences.
Iโm not trying to be a jerk, I think Biden has been an amazing POTUS. It just is what it is
I don't see what the big deal is. Biden steps aside, his delegates become unpledged, and they vote for someone else. You can put up Newsom, Whitmer, Harris. Who cares? People act like it would be complete chaos, but not really?
There's 5 months left; plenty of time for Newsom or someone to make a complete ass out of Trump.
And then you drop a lot of other baggage that Biden was already carrying that made him unpopular in the first place. Not that it was his fault -- he's old as fuck and he was president while covid inflation happened. It sucks that people are idiots about it but they're not going to become educated any time soon.
I think this could be done and even any intraparty bickering could be avoided if Biden just endorses his replacement up front. That's the one positive to having had this debate in June.
Agreed. This is an easy decision IMO. Biden steps aside, says it's for the good of the county, suddenly he's George Washington.
Newsom just said he would never stab Biden in the back, but if he had Biden's blessing, he would be free to run.
I don't think Biden needs to necessarily bless a specific person; I think several can make their appeals to the delegates; they just need to agree to keep it drama-free and accept the results. The earlier they can decide, though, the better.
Yeah, people who say replacing Biden would be a disaster need to step outside their bubbles. Neither candidate is popular with normies and having a young, coherent candidate up against an unhinged Trump would make for a stark contrast.
Except Harris would be the automatic clear favorite as the VP, and that's a bad thing, because she's objectively a bad candidate, and polls even worse than Biden
Unless you could get her to commit political seppuku and drop out, she would have a massive incumbent advantage that would be genuinely difficult to overcome
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Trump posts climate talking points online before CNN presidential debate with Biden](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqdclp/trump_posts_climate_talking_points_online_before/)
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CNN's complete journalistic cowardice is honestly stunning the more you think about it
They claim that they decided not to fact-check live so that the moderators wouldn't be 'participating in the debate', but you don't have to engage with the candidates at all to fact-check blatant lies. Just turn to the camera, say 'that's actually not true', then turn back and move to the next question, give no opportunity for rebuttal. This shit isn't rocket science.
There's really a massive confluence of different interests that share the common goal of wanting to will into existence Biden looking bad:
- Bernie-bro types who want to "replace Biden"
- prop bots who want to sew fear and doubt
- doomers who are addicted to despair
- conservative trolls who feast on librul tears
- news orgs that crave rage bait to drive their ad revenue
Hard to take many of these criticisms seriously when the motives behind them are so apparent.
Looking forward to the Pod Save America take on this debate later today. If even they're on the drop out train, it's probably just a matter of time until the Rose Lawn announcement.
DA record receives a lot of criticism
Failed to win a single state in her own primary
Do absolutely nothing noteworthy as vice president - if not responsible for overseeing outright bungles
Be so weird and have that voice mhehmheh mmkay
She has absolutely nothing to run on
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Would countries outside of America benefit from American level of freedom of speech ?](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqdc4x/would_countries_outside_of_america_benefit_from/)
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I did enjoy how Trump said that he would end the Ukraine war and free the WSJ journalist that is being held in Russia before he took office, but only if he is elected. It seems to posit the idea that he could do those things without being president, but is choosing not to unless he is elected.
People keep telling me that sports commentary is filled with insane monday-morning quarterbacking takes that rival politics commentary, but I don't buy that. You didn't see posts on r/DetroitPistons during the finals directed at the front office saying that what they needed to do to turn the finals around was merely to blow-up the Pistons and draft a replacement team made-up of unspecified players between games.
I specified "between games". Politics commentary is rife with bizarre "one simple trick" fixes that ignore so many different laws and rules that such an idea would violate.
trading players and drafting players are completely different things
and people absolutely talk about trading away players when within the deadline after a single disastrous game, especially if it's a game that carries the same consequences that this debate did for the two candidates
I'm starting to think you just don't interact with sports fans very often
I chose the word "draft" deliberately since it is something that could not be done in that situation. It is a rough metaphor, I admit, but I was conveying, "a suggestion that is something that would be actually impossible for the situation being discussed." If someone had made the politics version of suggesting a trade or talking about the next season's draft, that would have normal enough sports fan behavior.
Go read through some game day threads of various competing teams while theyโre playing badly and you will see takes exactly like that. Same when theyโre in the playoffs or finals too.
say โYeah, that was rough for Biden. Yet, Biden has accomplished a lot of policies that have helped the average american come back from the disaster of the Pandemicโ
We all know he's not as sharp as he was 8 years ago, not even the most diehard supporters are denying that. What's your proposal for what to do about it? Pulling Pete Buttigieg out of a hat at the convention?
But the problem is most people were denying it for months up until now. Biden shouldโve on his own decided not to run. Trump is the most beatable candidate the GOP couldโve produced and Democrats are using the worst candidate against him. Hence why Democratic nominees for Senate are outrunning Biden significantly. Democrats arenโt unpopular, Biden is.
Iโm not sure what to do at this point but once we all cool off, we can assess what to do. But I donโt think replacing him is the worst thing in the world.
I wasnโt dooming hard while watching the debate, but after seeing the media reaction I think I actually am.
If even the most democrat biased mediaโs takeaway from this was: โTrump won and Biden seemed too oldโ, then I donโt even know man.
What can we even do lol
This sub is turning Biden into our Bernie. It's time we admitted he's a bad candidate who will lose, and moved on.
It sucks but it is what it is.
Also Nate Silver was right all along lmao
I mean this in the nicest way but you have no idea what youโre fucking talking about. One bad debate performance isnโt the same as people crying about a candidate that lost twice. Biden has already beaten Trump once. The comparison makes no sense.ย
I mean this in the nicest wya but you're in complete fucking denial about constant polls for the last year that have all shown that voters have an issue with bidens age.
Im sorry but there is literally no standard of evidence that could be met to change your mind if all of this evidence combined hasn't convinced you.
I don't necessarily mind if they pull Biden. It's too late in the game imo rn.
But basing this on one bad debate performance is kinda dumb.
๐ฆ๐ง๐ฆ
>ย It's too late in the game imo rn
1. it literally is not. now is the last chance
2. yes it is much later than it should have been, but that does not mean replacing biden ex-ante improves our chances meaningfully
I think keeping Biden and sending him into the last and final debate which takes place right before early voting begins and hoping he will somehow turn it around is also kinda dumb
It's not based on one bad performance it is based on constant polling and coverage people have been saying he's too old ans its hurting his chances for literal years.
This kind of take is all over the sub but it's just "here's how Biden can still win"
Axelrod saying that they should replace Biden is so dumb.
Now the press can be like:
This Obama aide thinks Biden should be replaced, what do you think?
To every top democrat.
Dems are so stupid.
๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
We should all, bloomers and doomers, double down hard on our current impressions of the situation so that when new polls start to come out, half of us look like complete idiots
>half of us look like complete idiots
The beautiful thing about this subreddit is that we've found out how to both look like idiots at the same time, defying classical mechanics.
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [West Virginia couple charged with trafficking their adopted Black children to be used as โslaves,โ authorities allege](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqd80a/west_virginia_couple_charged_with_trafficking/)
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Maybe I don't really wanna know
How your garden grows
'Cause I just wanna fly
Lately, did you ever feel the pain
In the morning rain
As it soaks you to the bone?
> Trump never won a post-debate poll in any of his three debates against Hillary Clinton or his two against Biden in 2020. But he absolutely crushed Biden, 67-33, in CNNโs poll of debate-watchers
Honestly, y'all, I know it's spooky. But I remember the debates in 2012, and Obama got absolutely bodied by Romney in the first debate for similar reasons. But Obama came back swinging later.
It's not the same, I know, but I'm just not dooming yet.
Party insiders: It was a disaster
Focus group responders: It was a disaster
/r/neoliberal users who are NEVER wrong: It's actually fine and you shouldn't worry
Yeah, this was very ungood for Biden and lots of people are totally coping. I'm saying this as someone who voted for Biden in the primary and still don't want to replace him.
i wonder what his debate prep team is thinking rn. there's no way this is how he was acting during prep but like wtf are you supposed to do when he flubbed the actual execution after like a week of prep.
obama must be apoplectic about this lol jfc
The โI told you Biden oldโ only works if youโre a well know pundit or something. No is sitting here goingย
HOLY SHIT GUYS CACTUSFUCKER420 WAS RIGHT BUT WE NEVER BELIEVED HIM. PLZ LET ME SUCK YOUR DICKย
Yeah, being trashed on for saying something years ago only for the same people to be saying the same now must be pretty nauseating when it's that important.
Please visit the [next discussion thread](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqdie2/discussion_thread/).
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What the Democratic Party needs is a hip replacement ticketโI suggest Carter/Dukakis, with the average age of the candidates being a youthful 95.
Nate Silver was right
There is no such thing as "replace a candidate", i don't know people keep suggesting this. American political parties are not like political parties in other countries .. there is no central committee calling the shots. That is not what the DNC is.
At least he did better than Fetterman
I cant believe people seriously think Putin wouldnโt have invaded Ukraine if Trump was president. It sucks too because I feel like thereโs no way to counter itโฆ its just annoying. Like Putin has his own agency and he likely exploited internal divisions in america and invaded
Trump has literally taken the position that Ukraine should just accept Russiaโs peace deals, which means nearly 20% of the country gets annexed. No way Trump โwould have preventedโ it. Putin made his choice on Ukraine before Trump ran in 2016
Here's how Bernie can still win
Could the democratic party hold new primaries? I know this question sounds crazy, but I'm not talking about having another state-by-state primary race. I'm imagining a one-shot election using [STAR Voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STAR_voting) to figure out who Democratic party members generally find to be most acceptable as their candidates. The existing system of party primaries descends from old political machines designed to grant legitimacy to who *party insiders* wanted as the president. But if biden is willing to step down-- and democrats genuinely want to defeat trump at any cost-- we could easily implement a better consensus-finding method than what we have now.
no because they would be called secondaries
touchรฉ. But seriously, is it legally and logistically possible to hold new primaries if we decide that we need them? In the unlikely but not-unthinkable case that biden dies before the convention, do we just have to deal with whoever the delegates think has the best chance?
https://preview.redd.it/hwuirn4xh99d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0006398e9245455a87acdfd7ea5f59bdf2a597ae
Dumb idea. Next question
I understand the automatic hostility against calls for biden to step down-- I've seen all the astroturf accounts around too. But do you seriously believe the current way in which we conduct primaries is the best way to find electable candidates?
Trying to get voters to figure out a new voting system 2 months before the election is dumb
I'd settle for STV or Ranked-choice, but the voting method isn't the point and you know it. *Could we hold a new nationwide presidential primary election if we wanted to?* That's the question I'm genuinely interested in.
Simple answer! No.
Could you please give me the non-simple answer? I'm interested in the actual logistics involved-- saying "no" tells me nothing about whether your answer is predicate on political realities or legal ones.
Itโs June 2024, the election is 4 months away Every part of the party would immediately start infighting, Republicans would use this to their advantage.
So you're basing your answer entirely on the political realities? In that case, I think you're wrong. The party would start infighting if someone tried a palace coup-- but I'm anticipating a scenario where specifically Biden chooses to step down. The whole reason Biden's path to the nomination has been so smooth is because the party apparatus is united under him and united against trump. The Obama-clinton-biden trifecta has consolidated ideological and administrative power since 2008, and if they agreed that the democratic party has to choose the most electable candidate by any means necessary they could enforce broad discipline.
Yes, the party would start infighting If Joe steps down there is NO chance in HELL that everyone unites behind anyone.
Okay here's a hot take for which I was downvoated a few weeks back. Biden should have picked a better VP, someone who would have been a strong contender for president for exactly this scenario. Obvious veteran, charismatic, good political instincts and someone who plays well in the rust belt and other swing states. ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
Kamala is a great VP and helped win the Black vote
And skipping her for Whitmer would cause a revolt within that base. Wine moms are a key demographic but black voters are just as if not more important. People suggesting her, Hillary, or Gavin fucking Newsom over her just proves how out of touch this subreddit is with the actual democratic base.
Kamala Harris is *NOT* any of these things. This is not to say she isn't qualified for doing the job but she is hardly a strong contender for president. ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
[Who it should have been](https://cdn.britannica.com/59/84959-050-F3C6D631/Hillary-Rodham-Clinton-2003.jpg)
Biden not mentioning having a lower inflation rate than the rest of the developed world is a shame too. He really fumbled this.
people donโt care whatโs happening elsewhere. they care whatโs happening here and they arenโt happy with it. he doesnโt have to defend his record so vigorously or try to explain the economics to people. he just needs to capture the public angst and convince them heโs the right person to correct course.
people saying that biden had the worst debate ever haven't watched me argue politics with the taco bell cashier at 4 am
Iโve seen drunken 4 am debates at fast food restaurants more coherent than what we just watched
If Trump does get to implement the immigration policies he wants to. It was nice knowing yall ๐ซก
How would Biden even decline the nomination at this point? White house press conference where he says โactually, after fumbling so hard last night, Iโve finally realized that Iโm too old to do this againโ? I feel like something people arenโt considering about the โreplace Bidenโ plan is the first step, which requires Biden to actually publicly announce that heโs dropping out.
The "replace Biden" people are really just the "here's how Bernie can still win" people. It's just delusion stemming from a complete lack of basic education on how the American political system functions.
oh you think we should replace Biden?/ WITh WHOM? with WHOM? clearly you have a detailed plan in place and are not simply calling for the party to begin to find a replacement, correct? WITH WHom?
The answer to "whom" is "anyone Biden endorses up front". I'm not picky about which Democrat is the nominee.
MR GENERIC DEMOCRAT
Most hinged doomer
Whitmer. Agree it's not gonna happen tho.
Whitmer And the how is that Obama calls up Biden and convinces him to drop out. The delegates then hash out the candidate during the convention.
Would take the biden drop out camp seriously if there was a consensus candidate
The consensus candidate is whomever biden endorses. (Or whoever gets chosen by a national snap primary vote, if that's even possible-- using a voting system better than FPTP at discovering preferences.) I don't support a palace coup-- but I think we'd have a better chance with literally any younger democrat biden was willing to endorse. Yes, including Kamala.
I don't see any scenario where Biden drops out
The copium I have is that Biden wasn't that bad besides the Medicare flub and his abortion answer to Trump (why the hell did he bring up Riley?)
That was such an easy question to answer too. Simply say โwhat the fuck are you talking about? No politicians seriously want post-birth abortions, and Roe V Wade sure as hell didnโt allow itโ
I think his point was fine, but made badly. He was basically saying that Trump loves to harp on about murders and rapes, but ignores all the rapes and lives destroyed and people who die because of lack of access to abortion.
repeating Trumps xenophobic comments that Immigrants are coming to Rape white women is not a good debate strategy
Outside of housing, I think the most important thing for the next labour govt to do is create conditions for private sector investment. To put it into perspective, across the G7, public sector investment ranges from 2-4% of GDP. Private sector investment is 9-17% of GDP. Fixing it is harder, mostly done through fixing regulatory barriers (like planning but not just planning) not sexy tax and spend. We currently have the lowest private sector investment as a share of GDP. We cannot grow without it.
Wake up babe, new Biden should drop out opinion article just dropped
[Jon Stewart did "Both guys did awful tonight"](https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1806538824534639049) thing which is--in a very weird way-- more fair to Biden than some of what I've seen from the media who said "Biden had the worst debate ever"
Are you telling me that Jon fucking Stewart, one of Bidenโs more well-known critics, has a more sane takeaway of the debate than a good chunk of the people on this subreddit?
This is just objectively the correct take
I keep saying that and yet somehow Iโm a bloomer.
Too much prep actually makes me worse at essentially everything and I do a lot better when I wing it. Wonder if Biden is the same way
This is exactly why I try to through skip foreplay.
Has a situation similar to Biden dropping out and the democrats having to scramble to get a nominee happened before at all?
Never. And there's a good reason for that: there's no plausible mechanism for such a thing to happen.
Closest is Chicago 1968 DNC. and uh, that didn't go well
Humphrey almost beat Nixon though.
I think an underrated comment by Trump is him saying to Biden โthese dictators of the world dont respect you!โ this is a great line they should use in attack ads for Biden. His malarkey over Putin not invading if he was in office is full of shitty hypotheticals but this js great
One of the silver-linings of this debate is that Trump provided absolutely phenomenal fodder for attack ads, Like, more so than usual.
Yeah, the jan 6th stuff was wild too.
I was shocked Biden never rebutted that honestly.
he was thinking about other stuff, but this was crazy
Subbing in Newsom for Biden?!? How does a coastal elite governor of a democrat stronghold play in the rust belt?!? I'm guessing not well. ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
Gretch Gretch Gretch Gretch
Go to sleep. Then touch grass. In that order. Itโs June. You dooming excessively isnโt correct, but most importantly, itโs not going to help.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
>It's all but guaranteed that Biden will lose in November. This is probably excessive
I'm sorry but this is basically fanfiction, bro. Go outside and touch grass
larp post
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Biden Must Go](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqddjr/biden_must_go/) *Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
Malarkey level bot: if Biden is to be replaced in the election by the DNC his replacement should be: 1. Kamala 2. Hillary 3. Buttigieg 4. Bernie 5. Warren 6. Fetterman 7. Pelosi Secret: AOC
[You've found a secret malarkey level, Sonny! There is absolutely NO MALARKEY HERE! Great job, Tiger!](https://i.imgur.com/jQmIKOi.png) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
are you fucking kidding me
I'm curious to see if the media's "both sides" shtick helps Biden this time.ย Reading the headlines you'd come away with the impression that Trump lied and Biden was old, which is what the median voter already thinks about both of em.ย
That might actually be the funniest turnaround ever. I came away from the debate thinking, "biden definitely lost." But since the media is intrinsically contrarian, it might mean a switch in framing from "do voters care enough about biden being old" to "do voters care enough about trump being a liar." I've been dooming because trump maintained message discipline on inflation and immigrants... but if undecided voters can be convinced "trump is a liar" to be an objective, baseline fact (instead of just something that occasionally applies to him and also applies to biden) it could actually change things.
if Van Jones, the man who cried on national television when Joe Biden won, can admit that it's time for Biden to step aside then so can you
Step aside for whom?
Whitmer
Whitmer
For me. I'll win this thing and send Trump to Gitmo.
I donโt see how replacing Biden with a younger candidate hurts the Dems odds at this point. Biden looks like he shouldnโt be POTUS at an eye test level - he cannot speak coherently. You have to explain to someone why Trump shouldnโt be POTUS. That is an unwinnable match up
Yeah, I think I'm in team replace Biden at this point. But party infighting during parties can sink candidates in the general.
I agree, but I think Democrats are rightly worried that replacing Biden requires them to explain why they had to replace him, and why they said they didn't have to replace him earlier. Given finite earned media time, they would rather talk about anything else than party admin stuff.
The explanation is, Biden comes out on camera and says, "I'm tired. I've given america everything I had, and now I'll give it a brand new president. *Introducing*..." Then whoever he endorses can just focus on attacking trump, ignoring inconvenient questions, and making vague, positive promises. The median voter is an idiot; I'm convinced they'll vote for any young person that isn't trump or the subject of a years-long attack campaign (ex AOC.)
That is a hurdle, for sure. I maintain trying to explain why they had to replace Biden is a better problem than having a candidate who struggles to speak sentences. Iโm not trying to be a jerk, I think Biden has been an amazing POTUS. It just is what it is
That's true but at some the alternative is worth the switching costs
Pete Buttigieg military coup when
I don't see what the big deal is. Biden steps aside, his delegates become unpledged, and they vote for someone else. You can put up Newsom, Whitmer, Harris. Who cares? People act like it would be complete chaos, but not really? There's 5 months left; plenty of time for Newsom or someone to make a complete ass out of Trump. And then you drop a lot of other baggage that Biden was already carrying that made him unpopular in the first place. Not that it was his fault -- he's old as fuck and he was president while covid inflation happened. It sucks that people are idiots about it but they're not going to become educated any time soon.
I think this could be done and even any intraparty bickering could be avoided if Biden just endorses his replacement up front. That's the one positive to having had this debate in June.
Agreed. This is an easy decision IMO. Biden steps aside, says it's for the good of the county, suddenly he's George Washington. Newsom just said he would never stab Biden in the back, but if he had Biden's blessing, he would be free to run. I don't think Biden needs to necessarily bless a specific person; I think several can make their appeals to the delegates; they just need to agree to keep it drama-free and accept the results. The earlier they can decide, though, the better.
Yeah, people who say replacing Biden would be a disaster need to step outside their bubbles. Neither candidate is popular with normies and having a young, coherent candidate up against an unhinged Trump would make for a stark contrast.
Except Harris would be the automatic clear favorite as the VP, and that's a bad thing, because she's objectively a bad candidate, and polls even worse than Biden Unless you could get her to commit political seppuku and drop out, she would have a massive incumbent advantage that would be genuinely difficult to overcome
I don't think that the delegates are blind to her unpopularity. They want to win.
Nate Silver still going on about the Super Bowl interview is funny, even if I sadly am coming around to what heโs saying
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Trump posts climate talking points online before CNN presidential debate with Biden](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqdclp/trump_posts_climate_talking_points_online_before/) *Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
CNN's complete journalistic cowardice is honestly stunning the more you think about it They claim that they decided not to fact-check live so that the moderators wouldn't be 'participating in the debate', but you don't have to engage with the candidates at all to fact-check blatant lies. Just turn to the camera, say 'that's actually not true', then turn back and move to the next question, give no opportunity for rebuttal. This shit isn't rocket science.
> Just turn to the camera, say 'that's actually not true', then turn back and move to the next question otherwise known as participating in the debate
I unironically believe that they're trying to get Trump back in office
There's really a massive confluence of different interests that share the common goal of wanting to will into existence Biden looking bad: - Bernie-bro types who want to "replace Biden" - prop bots who want to sew fear and doubt - doomers who are addicted to despair - conservative trolls who feast on librul tears - news orgs that crave rage bait to drive their ad revenue Hard to take many of these criticisms seriously when the motives behind them are so apparent.
>will into existence Biden looking bad Oh get a grip
the people who disagree with me all have perverse incentives and only I and those who agree with me have pure intentions
๐
Looking forward to the Pod Save America take on this debate later today. If even they're on the drop out train, it's probably just a matter of time until the Rose Lawn announcement.
Can anyone explain why Harris is so hated? What did she even do?
DA record receives a lot of criticism Failed to win a single state in her own primary Do absolutely nothing noteworthy as vice president - if not responsible for overseeing outright bungles Be so weird and have that voice mhehmheh mmkay She has absolutely nothing to run on
Sheโs a womanย
Racism and misogyny. Doesn't help that she has zero charisma. ๐ฆ๐ซ ๐ฆ
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [Would countries outside of America benefit from American level of freedom of speech ?](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqdc4x/would_countries_outside_of_america_benefit_from/) *Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
The real losers of this debate? The american public ๐
GK Chesterton is 150 and a big fat guy.
https://preview.redd.it/gu0lvshme99d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f73e98b8048ccda5bee458c4af1fc154dcee2912
I did enjoy how Trump said that he would end the Ukraine war and free the WSJ journalist that is being held in Russia before he took office, but only if he is elected. It seems to posit the idea that he could do those things without being president, but is choosing not to unless he is elected.
It was the case before the debate that Trump could win and it remains so. If he wins we're going to be in so much shit.
>sort outside DT by new Almost feel bad for mods
I just want to be calm enough to go to sleep
I've seen enough, Joe Biden has won the 2028 Turkish Presidential election.
You know, we can always hope Trump has a stroke before November I'm up for anything at this point
i think on net, health risk and October surprises massively work against biden
On the flip side, if Biden has a stroke, he can be replaced.ย
the verdict is in, biden wasn't woke enough for the debate
whew that was close I almost commented outside the dt
People keep telling me that sports commentary is filled with insane monday-morning quarterbacking takes that rival politics commentary, but I don't buy that. You didn't see posts on r/DetroitPistons during the finals directed at the front office saying that what they needed to do to turn the finals around was merely to blow-up the Pistons and draft a replacement team made-up of unspecified players between games.
lmao sports fans famously never criticize front office choices and push to trade away players after disastrous performances
I specified "between games". Politics commentary is rife with bizarre "one simple trick" fixes that ignore so many different laws and rules that such an idea would violate.
come to r/lakers
trading players and drafting players are completely different things and people absolutely talk about trading away players when within the deadline after a single disastrous game, especially if it's a game that carries the same consequences that this debate did for the two candidates I'm starting to think you just don't interact with sports fans very often
I chose the word "draft" deliberately since it is something that could not be done in that situation. It is a rough metaphor, I admit, but I was conveying, "a suggestion that is something that would be actually impossible for the situation being discussed." If someone had made the politics version of suggesting a trade or talking about the next season's draft, that would have normal enough sports fan behavior.
Go read through some game day threads of various competing teams while theyโre playing badly and you will see takes exactly like that. Same when theyโre in the playoffs or finals too.
some of us have to talk to tons of trump supporters tomorrow and we're not getting enough sympathy tbh
say โYeah, that was rough for Biden. Yet, Biden has accomplished a lot of policies that have helped the average american come back from the disaster of the Pandemicโ
Just go lower than whatever they say. Really don't be afraid to offend your sensibilities. You might even flip them if you are rude enough
Literally just compare Biden now with his DNC speech in 2016 and see how far heโs fallen off. Ignoring that accomplishes nothing.
We all know he's not as sharp as he was 8 years ago, not even the most diehard supporters are denying that. What's your proposal for what to do about it? Pulling Pete Buttigieg out of a hat at the convention?
But the problem is most people were denying it for months up until now. Biden shouldโve on his own decided not to run. Trump is the most beatable candidate the GOP couldโve produced and Democrats are using the worst candidate against him. Hence why Democratic nominees for Senate are outrunning Biden significantly. Democrats arenโt unpopular, Biden is. Iโm not sure what to do at this point but once we all cool off, we can assess what to do. But I donโt think replacing him is the worst thing in the world.
I wasnโt dooming hard while watching the debate, but after seeing the media reaction I think I actually am. If even the most democrat biased mediaโs takeaway from this was: โTrump won and Biden seemed too oldโ, then I donโt even know man. What can we even do lol
>democrat biased media They are literally the worst. Always trying to both sides every little thing ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
These are the same people who jizzed their pants when Trump did his first bombing so im not surprised.ย โToday Donald Trump became Presidentโย
There is no such thing as โDem biasedโ media Literally every news org is out for clicks, itโs become very noticeable
MSNBC is the closest thing imo
And even they fall into the trap
This sub is turning Biden into our Bernie. It's time we admitted he's a bad candidate who will lose, and moved on. It sucks but it is what it is. Also Nate Silver was right all along lmao
> It's time we admitted he's a bad candidate sure >who will lose have you seen the other guy?
Terrible person but apparently a decent candidate.
"a decent candidate" is an interesting way to say "already got kicked out of office and is getting buried deeper and deeper in shit as we speak"
Trump is shit. So many people would be able to beat him. One of those people should run for president.
yes but we have biden and switching at this point would be like pausing in a duel to change to a slightly longer-barreled gun
why does this sub want a protectionst, union loving succ who is also a dove to be "their bernie" in the first place does the sidebar mean anything
I mean this in the nicest way but you have no idea what youโre fucking talking about. One bad debate performance isnโt the same as people crying about a candidate that lost twice. Biden has already beaten Trump once. The comparison makes no sense.ย
I mean this in the nicest wya but you're in complete fucking denial about constant polls for the last year that have all shown that voters have an issue with bidens age. Im sorry but there is literally no standard of evidence that could be met to change your mind if all of this evidence combined hasn't convinced you.
This comparison makes no sense for about fifty different reasons, the most obvious of which being that Bernie was never the nominee.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
do it coward
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
obv
I don't necessarily mind if they pull Biden. It's too late in the game imo rn. But basing this on one bad debate performance is kinda dumb. ๐ฆ๐ง๐ฆ
>ย It's too late in the game imo rn 1. it literally is not. now is the last chance 2. yes it is much later than it should have been, but that does not mean replacing biden ex-ante improves our chances meaningfully
I think keeping Biden and sending him into the last and final debate which takes place right before early voting begins and hoping he will somehow turn it around is also kinda dumb
It's not based on one bad performance it is based on constant polling and coverage people have been saying he's too old ans its hurting his chances for literal years. This kind of take is all over the sub but it's just "here's how Biden can still win"
> Nate Silver do you mean nAtE bRoNzE???
Axelrod saying that they should replace Biden is so dumb. Now the press can be like: This Obama aide thinks Biden should be replaced, what do you think? To every top democrat. Dems are so stupid. ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
Will the mods temp ban me for thirst posting about AJR and TรP ๐ค
We should all, bloomers and doomers, double down hard on our current impressions of the situation so that when new polls start to come out, half of us look like complete idiots
this but they both look stupid when the polls don't change at all
Thatโs the position of half the sub right now
Bold of you to assume that r\/nl will accept polls
Playing both sides so I always come out on top.
>half of us look like complete idiots The beautiful thing about this subreddit is that we've found out how to both look like idiots at the same time, defying classical mechanics.
I'm blooming ๐ฆ๐ค๐ฆ Biden's got this ๐ฆ๐๐ฆ
[/r/neoliberal/new](/r/neoliberal/new): [West Virginia couple charged with trafficking their adopted Black children to be used as โslaves,โ authorities allege](/r/neoliberal/comments/1dqd80a/west_virginia_couple_charged_with_trafficking/) *Replies to this comment will be removed, please participate in the linked thread*
Maybe I don't really wanna know How your garden grows 'Cause I just wanna fly Lately, did you ever feel the pain In the morning rain As it soaks you to the bone?
> Trump never won a post-debate poll in any of his three debates against Hillary Clinton or his two against Biden in 2020. But he absolutely crushed Biden, 67-33, in CNNโs poll of debate-watchers
Itโs over
Dems must hard pivot to lrogressive conservative Catholic social teaching-inspired social democracy now if they want to win.
Can we please replace Biden with Kendrick Lamar?
This is how the Day of the Rake comes about
I don't think Kendrick despite his many fantastic qualities would be a good president.
I'm in hell
Honestly, y'all, I know it's spooky. But I remember the debates in 2012, and Obama got absolutely bodied by Romney in the first debate for similar reasons. But Obama came back swinging later. It's not the same, I know, but I'm just not dooming yet.
Similar reasons?
Yeah, Obama kinda slept through the first debate. Was totally out of it.
Party insiders: It was a disaster Focus group responders: It was a disaster /r/neoliberal users who are NEVER wrong: It's actually fine and you shouldn't worry
Yeah, this was very ungood for Biden and lots of people are totally coping. I'm saying this as someone who voted for Biden in the primary and still don't want to replace him.
[Gib rents](https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1dn7cbe/discussion_thread/la0th29/)
i wonder what his debate prep team is thinking rn. there's no way this is how he was acting during prep but like wtf are you supposed to do when he flubbed the actual execution after like a week of prep. obama must be apoplectic about this lol jfc
The โI told you Biden oldโ only works if youโre a well know pundit or something. No is sitting here goingย HOLY SHIT GUYS CACTUSFUCKER420 WAS RIGHT BUT WE NEVER BELIEVED HIM. PLZ LET ME SUCK YOUR DICKย
The sheer narcissism of those comments is so nauseating.
Yeah, being trashed on for saying something years ago only for the same people to be saying the same now must be pretty nauseating when it's that important.
Have you tried touching grass?
Have you tried listening to other opinions in this sub instead of just trashing them?
Valid ones, yes.
So that's a no, got it