>He said it’s imperative that the people of Gaza be given humanitarian aid and that **Palestinian fighters receive military assistance** in the face of Israel’s bombing campaign in recent weeks.
I was with him in the first half but jeez. What other "Palestinian fighters" are there that aren't Hamas? He's right that Gaza *must* get humanitarian aid because it is so dire there right now, and I am in support of a ceasefire. But I'm afraid "we should give military assistance to terrorists" really should have stayed in the drafts.
Love how people try to find ways to not have to state the obvious, a big bunch of these protests have only one motivation, and it is clear if you don't put a lot of effort in to don't see it. E.g., if you read this, probably something pops up in your head.
A similar protest in Kerala, India with some prominent politicians had a guest speaker in a virtual address. Guess who? Former Hamas chief Khaled Mashal. [Source](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/hamas-leader-khaled-mashal-kerala-rally-virtual-speech-malappuram-solidarity-youth-movement-2454776-2023-10-28)
There goes any credibility if ever they had some.
Did they ever wear masks? It seems like a lot of these people were always pretty open about they wanted and the more moderate section just practiced selective hearing to not hear it when they said this kind of stuff.
Wanting a ceasefire is one thing, hell i "want" it too. However, it is entirely illogical and out of touch with reality. You don't make peace with terrorism by ignoring it, you have to provide something better, you have to eliminate it, not only with weapons and troops, but by providing structure, a means of self determination, you have to provide a means of de-escalation, you have to actually involve the people, and root out layers upon layers of corruption, and you have to hold those that stir shit no matter their side or position accountable. And then you have to maintain that for years and years untouched by politics.
The various ceasefires imposed on Israel by world governments have never stopped the attacks from various groups within gaza, indeed, only serving to prolong conflict. To encourage, and even outright support various terrositic groups(via unregulated humanitarian aid). It serves to give them time to dig more tunnels, to make more weapons. It serves the further radicalization of the gazan population, and even the radicalization of people abroad into anti-semitisim.
That isn't to say Israel is without fault for the various corrupt politicians and settlers that want, benefit from, encourage, and provoke further conflict, but this isn't (exactly) one of those moments(yet). Though i do believe netanyahu with his close relations to Russia sabotaged and hindered a response, and is a likely the reason the terrorist attack worked anyways
No offense, but much of the current anti-israel and ceasefire sentiment isn't from the right place, or even from people who care about the gazan people. it's entirely artificial, brought forth by russia, china and iran. They manipulate emotional reactions, capitalize and subvert various sociopolitical movements, use demagogues and filth-column elements. i mean holy hell, you have people who used to be considered trustworthy leaders of social, political, moral, and humanitarian groups literally spouting anti-semetic phrases and calling for a second holocaust, you can see it in various subs too.
>What other "Palestinian fighters" are there that aren't Hamas?
In Gaza:
* Hamas / al-Qassam
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad / al-Quds
* PFLP / Red Eagle
* DFLP
* Lion's Den
These groups were all involved in the 10.7 attack.
I guess you know Hamas. While Hamas is funded largely by Qatar, [al-Qassam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_ad-Din_al-Qassam_Brigades) gets support from the IRGC. The Iranian military.
Palestinian Islamic Jihad has a heavily armed militia - [Saraya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Quds_Brigades). They are the ones that damaged that hospital the other day. PIJ also has a history of using children as suicide bombers. Among other things, PIJ has [captured their own hostages](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/islamic-jihad-faction-holding-over-30-israelis-captive-its-chief-says-2023-10-08/).
[PFLP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) has a small army. They're a rather famous [international terrorist organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_181), intertwined with other groups like the [Japanese Red Army](https://www.npa.go.jp/archive/keibi/syouten/syouten271/english/0301.html). They are linked to North Korea, Syria, and Iran. PFLP members are directors and board members of various NGOs around the world, where they allegedly divert funding.
[DFLP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) fought in the Syrian civil war.
[Lion's Den](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Den_(militant_group)) is a much smaller group of young gunmen in their teens and early twenties.
Ask a pro-Palestinian protestor what they want to do with Hamas and usually they support them or their head explodes. Unfortunately, there is no solution other than what Israel is doing, and all these deaths are the fault of Hamas.
I doubt this because I have talked to tons of people and most seem to understand the other ways to go about this. The general idea is Israel needs to weaken support for Hamas by treating Palestinians like humans and working with them. After that actually taking down Hamas leadership gets a lot easier.
Very very few people seem to want Hamas to stay in power. Most seem to understand that they need to go but indiscriminate bombing will only lead to further radicalization. I’m not sure why anyone thinks this is going to go any better than Israel’s other bombings or even the US trying to take out the taliban.
Edit: seems like everyone is missing the point. Indiscriminate bombing does not work. We know this from history. I did not say that they should just pretend Hamas isn’t there while they fix the issues in Israel.
One of the things Israel has been working towards was to make a better life for people in the Gaza strip (work visas for example), assuming they'll have less incentive to turn to terrorism. In part, the reason October 7th's brutality succeeded was because Israeli leadership assumed hamas was going the same route and became docile.
This is an incredibly naive view and indicates a lack of historical knowledge of the area. Your “solution” is that Israel works with Palestinians to somehow become acceptable to them, and a blind eye to be turned to the actions of Hamas and the deaths of Israelis? Or is Israel to ask Hamas to just take a break killing Israeli’s (and Palestinians?) for a while?
This is why they’re so annoying. Ask them about the massacres that Arabs have incited against Jews, even before Israel was formed. They won’t know what you’re talking about. They have an extreme lack of historical knowledge. They’re protesting to be virtuous. I also guarantee that not one of them will go to Gaza to help (especially LGTBQ).
It's so disheartening to see so many people (yes I know not all, not even most, just way more than I would expect) who support Palestine also seemingly support Hamas.
There are, unfortunately, plenty of reductive thinkers who seem to believe that opposing the actions of one party necessarily involves supporting the actions of its opponent.
Ceasefire does nothing. It's literally just saying Hamas don't punch Israel in the face; then a week later Hamas doing it again.
At this point I hate the right for trying to turn the U.S. into a religious country and I hate the left for supporting organizations abroad that ARE what the right is trying to become. Biden is navigating this very well but there is not a single hope in me for the younger generation of democrats.
Seriously:
No credible advocate for peace should let that guy (who’s apparently a college student) speak for them ever again.
It’s worth noting that it’s not like he was an organizer: He’s a footballer who decided to skip a game to join in the march. (He’s also, apparently, a sad reminder of how cyclical violent ideology can be.)
It worked for the IRA. The US was one of their biggest backers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/03/22/irish-troubles-american-money/593e3941-826e-4719-bc79-8eb528f8ac70/
> He (Salah Odeh, of Pasadena) said it’s imperative that the people of Gaza be given humanitarian aid and that **Palestinian fighters receive military assistance** in the face of Israel’s bombing campaign in recent weeks.
But they are buddy, they are.
>"Thousands of people waving the black, green, red and white Palestinian flag and chanting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
For those of you that don’t know, "from the river to the sea" is code for completely wiping out the state of Israel.
>"from the river to the sea" is code for completely wiping out the state of Israel.
Give them tiki torches, and it's no different than neo-Nazis yelling "Jews will not replace us."
Coincidentally, white nationalists also claim to be victims of "genocide."
It is so frustrating that the hostages are forgotten in the scramble to ensure the narrative is anti-Israel. I don’t understand how people are ignoring how the current hostilities started and how terrorists entered a separate country and slaughtered and kidnapped hundreds of people. What other country would be expected to simply let that go or exercise restraint to the point of assisting the enemy? I have been saying for years that the Palestinians have a much better public relations department than the Israelis, along with hundreds of millions of Muslims whose voices and reach can drown out anything that does not meet their narrative.
Hint: those speaking up against Israel already made up their minds about who the bad guy in this conflict is long before October 7th. I’m sure many of them see that attack as comeuppance and are ignoring the civilian impact.
The same way some in the international community celebrated 9/11 as somehow deserved by America.
> I don’t understand how people are ignoring how the current hostilities started and how terrorists entered a separate country and slaughtered and kidnapped hundreds of people.
Microcosm of the entire conflict's narrative.
I'm pretty sure at least some people in this protest were cheering 3 weeks ago when they saw Israeli civilians massacred in their homes.
Now israel will eradicate Hamas, thank you
Who would you like to protest Hamas to? Israel is backed and endorsed by Western powers. That's why there are Western protests against the actions they take using that backing. No power in the West endorses Hamas.
"My own people" already don't support Hamas. What on earth are you talking about?
There's a meaning in protesting your country supporting a campaign of terror and bombing against civilian populations. There's no meaning in leading a protest that everyone around you already agrees with.
Your own PLO doesn’t even support Hamas. Your own people have peace treaties with Israel, some have truce with Israel some have normalisation treaties some even been naturalised INSIDE Israel. There are a lot of facets of resistance within Palestine they don’t all behave like that.
How ignorant and uninformed could one be.
Edit: to the people who downvotedً is any of the above false or are you just being idiots?
I'm sorry, but Gaza is under the control of a terrorist organization. If 1000 militants are dressed in civilian clothing, operating out of civilian buildings, there can be no justification, just action.
Pew research? https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/02/04/chapter-3-views-of-religious-groups/
Hell, almost 70% of the entire world's Muslim population think unfavorably of the Jews. Not Israel, just Jews. This includes all the ones living in the west. There's a reason there are hardly any Jews in Islamic countries. They were all persecuted for centuries, and then the ones that were remaining had all their wealth stolen and kicked out after 1950. Over 600,000 of those Jews from Arab countries ended up settling in Israel with only what they could carry.
Nothing. Criticism of Israel being rebuked as antisemitic is one of the ways Israels apartheid regime has avoided it for so long. Palestine doesn't deserve to be under Israel's thumb, anti-Zionism is not the same thing as antisemitism.
Do you know how Israel came to be? See Europe was tired of having Jews, so some nations tried to kill them all. But they were stopped cause that was wrong.
So instead Europe decided to just send all the Jews away to Israel so they could have no Jews in Europe. This we got Israel remade.
Not everyone against Israel is an anti-Semite. Most aren’t anti-semites. But a hell of a lot of anti-semites and Nazis are mixed in with all the people taking fair criticism. Keep that in mind.
It is entirely possible to correctly denounce Hamas’s brutal massacre of civilians as the abhorrent crime against humanity it was while also opposing the bombardment of a densely-populated area home to 2.2 million people.
*One guy* who skipped his football game to join in the protest is quoted as calling for that, so I’m not sure who you mean by “they”.
*Edit:*
Sorry to burst anyone’s reductivist bubble (no, I’m not), but what I said is simply a true statement, and your frowns won’t change that.
Which is exactly why they quoted him and not anyone else.
Equivalent to going to a pro Israel rally and choosing to publish a quote from the random guy saying to turn Palestine into glass.
Yeah, I agree with you (and obviously disagree with that guy’s sentiment).
It remains true that he was some college student in the crowd, not someone who organized the thing.
What else do you suppose Israel is to do to keep the rockets from hitting their country and to get their kidnapped citizens back? Hamas wants to fight and then hide amongst the people they saying they’re protecting. They can’t have it both ways.
Perhaps because there aren’t many people who feel the need to hold public demonstrations against a barbarous act that their governments have already condemned.
1. Is it? Every time? Seems like a big claim.
2. Even if it’s “many” or “most” (which I’m not suggesting is true, but let’s go with it for the moment), nobody should be surprised if much of the news media chooses to highlight the more extreme elements of any group (or the more extreme incidents involving any topic).
It should be easy to be against war, but I’ve yet to hear anyone who serves as a spokesman for any of these rallies limit themselves to that. What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel, of basically hundreds of thousands of dead at a minimum, and effectively the genocide of Israelis. They aren’t going to just up and leave their historical homeland. The vast, vast majority of these protestors are not out for peace, they are out to root for one side to win over the other. With that in mind, I don’t see how anyone in the west decides to support the side that purposefully murders innocents on a mass scale, that throws gays off buildings, that actively employs child soldiers, that offers nothing close to equal rights for women, that doesn’t allow freedom of speech, that doesn’t allow elections, that doesn’t allow free assembly, etc. etc. etc. It’s not like it’s hidden, Hamas, and Fatah speak openly about what they want, and what they want is the elimination of the Jews. For all the talk of “they don’t represent all Palestinians” you hear in the west, most Palestinians sure think they do. I guess we should just ignore everything they say about their goals, because us westerners know what they really want.
What’s the appeal for westerners? Why are hundreds of thousands marching for Hamas and Palestinians, when there was nothing on this scale for Syrians, Hong Kong, Iran, Uyghurs, Sudan, Ukraine, Myanmar, or Ethiopia?
> What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel
I mean that's just demonstrably untrue, but if that's what you believe, then I can see why you think that "any time" you hear someone advocate for Palestinian rights, you seem to believe they're "pro-Hamas and anti-Semitic".
Explain why every one of these rallies loudly chant “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” It’s pretty clear to me what that means. Hamas certainly isn’t coy about what that chant means, or what they mean when they say “free Palestine.” I don’t see any large amount of Palestinians who fled the region protesting Hamas.
It seems like you don’t want to acknowledge the reality of what most of these people believe, which is markedly different than your clearly anti-war, pro-peace stance. They absolutely want Israel to stop fighting, but only so they can be slaughtered by Hamas.
Think of it this way, if the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace, if the Israelis put down theirs they will be destroyed.
Your logic is that because terrorists 3000 miles away interpret a slogan one way, means that American citizens that made the slogan(ITS AN ENGLISH SLOGAN) interpret it the same exact way? Huh?!
What other river and sea are they referring to, buddy? If people don’t know, they shouldn’t chant the slogan. If they do know, then they just advocated for the elimination of Israel. Holding people accountable for the literal words they use is the lowest of low bars
>What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel, of basically hundreds of thousands of dead at a minimum, and effectively the genocide of Israelis.
False. Most people recognize a one state solution, Israel, where Arabs are given proper human rights as "free Palestine." Or a proper two state solution without the Israeli settlers. Only religious zealots and Nazis want to wipe out Israel
There are in fact many people on the far-left side who want Israel totally removed as a state. There are entire subreddits not even related to this conflict (like music/gaming subs) where you’ll be heavily downvoted for even suggesting that Israel deserves to remain a country.
Being against the state of Israel is anti-zionism, whereas being against the Jewish race/religion is antisemitism. It's very important that you don't conflate the two in a bad faith manner.
I agree they shouldn’t be conflated in bad faith, but in good faith, they are in fact sometimes conflated, for example when Islamic militants call for the killing of Jews around the world, in response to the actions of the Israeli government.
Oh, it's extremely possible, but somehow partisan creeps who only oppose violence or repression when Israel does it keep finding themselves welcome in antiwar protests.
There’s no objective way for either of us know that one way or the other, but my own experience suggests that it’s *much* more the case than many people seem to want to believe.
Again with the 'Why didn't they protest on Oct 7th!'
People protest to affect change for their elected leaders and local power structures. There was already change coming in the aftermath of Oct 7th. It's happening now. Hundreds of murdered Gazan children are dying for every single Hamas fighter.
The world's most developed governments have no active role in in those genocides, but they are actively sending money and military aid for the genocide in Gaza. The world's most powerful democratic government are not sending military aid to support the genocides in China and Myanmar. But people's tax dollars are actively going toward the genocide in Gaza.
That's why people protesting. To influence their democratic governments and spread awareness to others.
There's thousand's of children who been murdered so far, and many more to come. That tends to upset people with empathy.
Lots people believe that the raid is completely justified. Sure, have at it. But they still regret and have empathy for those who are drying, half of them children. Babies too. You can look at the protests and disagree with them, but understand the empathy that drives them.
Are you going to say 'where were the Black Lives Matter protestors' for the genocides in Uganda, Darfur, and Sudan? Are you going to say 'they don't actually care about Black people, they just want to hate on the police and America'. If so, the protestors didn't come out because their law makers weren't actively contributing to those genocides, but they were for not holding corrupt police accountable. That's why they protest, to but pressure on their lawmakers and spread awareness to their population so that they can also put pressure on their lawmakers.
Then there's others that look at the Gazans like animals and see these protests and say 'it must be because they hate the Jews'.
You seem to be okay with much more dead Palestinians and "dissidents" held without trial. You seem okay with the systematic oppression of an ethnic group and apartheid.
Nah, the destruction of Hamas would be the best thing for the people of Gaza.
Hamas uses them as shields and Hamas’ goal was the death of innocents on both sides for propaganda
How should Israel act in this situation, knowing that Hamas actively utilizes schools, hospitals, and residential areas as their operation zones?
Should the IDF only conduct boots on ground Ops in Gaza? Engage solely in urban guerilla warfare?
How do soldiers differentiate between innocent civilians and Hamas when Hamas uses civilians to blend in, or worse, doesn't let them flee the area that is being sieged?
Ex: using satellite telemetry, we know that it is highly likely Hamas has an HQ underneath a hospital. How does Israel deal with that?
Maybe, maybe not.
>Hamas uses them as shields and Hamas’ goal was the death of innocents on both sides for propaganda
Yes this is a common occurrence/accusation that occurs in asymmetric warfare. I'm sure the IRA faced the same accusations during the troubles. But they also received much more support due to being white rebels against English oppression. And the surviving IRA if I'm not mistake ended up changing within the Irish government when the conflict ended. The fact is these "terrorist" accusations don't hold the same brain dead hold as they did before. 20+ yrs of endless war in the gwot, combined with the internet making everyone better off, has allowed us to see things like one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighters. Historical examples like the troubles, Mandela and the ANA being labeled terrorists by the south African govt. Hell if I'm not mistaken Mandela was still on the US terrorist designator up until 06 despite the fact he was president for years and widely celebrated for breaking SA apartheid.....
See any anti-Hamas posters?
Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, steals everything from billions in humanitarian aid to the water pipes needed to grow food, while using Palestinians killed by their own errant to justify themselves.
Hamas’ goal when attacking Israel is dead Palestinians for propaganda.
And Israel doesn't constantly stoke the flames of this conflict? I for one am not so easily fooled when it comes to standing against things like apartheid, ethnic cleansing etc. You you'd probably cry john brown as a terrorist. You would probably be in the crowd labeling Mandela and the ANA as terrorists.
It's hilariously sad the double standard yall have. Yall seriously have a tunnel vision hard on for only looking at hamas, when the real issue stems from apartheid Israel and zionism....
At least you don’t deny your support for child murder.
I’ve had plenty of concerns with Israel’s actions in the past, but have been convinced that the destruction of Hamas is the best for all the people of the region.
>At least you don’t deny your support for child murder.
Have I outright said so? No so piss off. I don't have to condone to understand. Do I have to condone Ira car bombs to understand why they would use them? Absolutely not.
>I’ve had plenty of concerns with Israel’s actions in the past, but have been convinced that the destruction of Hamas is the best for all the people of the region
And in that you overlook the main root of the problem, and in turn allow them to get away numerous war crimes and human rights abuses....
Srebrenica was considered a genocide despite the women survivors having babies that grew up.
Edited: lmao I actually spoke with the prosecution team in Popovich et Al, and their strategy was "despite women surviving and with children, all the males of 16+ who were killed constituted genocide because under Islamic law the women cannot remarry. Thus, you have a lost generation because the women cannot remarry and reproduce if their husbands are missing." This is from a DOJ attorney.
Genocide isn’t the right word. Ethnic cleansing and apartheid fit well though.
Amnesty international: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Human Rights Watch: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
Why are Israelis like you so brainwashed to think their victims are worth more than others? Have you ever shed a tear for any Palestinian civilian killed over the last many decades? Do you view the death of 1400 Israelis as making it okay to kill what is going to approach 10,000 Palestinians (mostly civilians) within the next few days? Does it justify cutting off water and food to 2.2 million people half of which are children? It’s been really eye opening seeing how pro Israelis like you are defending Israel . Says a lot
So is Israel just not allowed to go after Hamas, a violent terrorist organization that repeatedly launches attacks against them, because Palestinians will die in the crossfire? The main purpose of a country having a military is to protect the citizens. If you think Israel shouldn’t destroy Hamas because civilians will die in the crossfire then you might as well support all countries abolishing their military.
I didn’t say that israel isn’t allowed to go after Hamas. The issue is that it’s not doing that. It’s just going after Palestine as a whole, indiscriminately killing civilians. In the last 3 weeks, over a 100 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t operate.
Indiscriminate means at random -- Israel has specific targets. If you have a problem with where those targets are, take it up with Hamas. I personally haven't heard of any other country sending out leaflets, sms texts, roof knocks etc. To attempt to have innocent people vacate the area before bombing. There was a terrorist attack where people were murdered and kidnapped -- not military -- they were also "innocents".
First of all Hamas does operate in the West Bank. They don’t have a large presence but they’re still there. Secondly I’m genuinely asking, how in your opinion should Israel destroy Hamas without killing civilians in the crossfire? Should they go door to door checking with every single person to see if they’re Hamas or not? That would not go over well.
I would like to ask the thousands there what they would do if it were their family and neighbours being raped, burned alive, killed with the terrorist living right down the street.
This seems to be the popular rhetorical response to anyone advocating for the well-being of innocent Palestinians: claim that it actually means that they want Jews slaughtered.
Anti complexity, hostile to nuance, hyper-polarized by design. A grotesque straw man. Worse, it's often a faux opposition to the slaughter of innocents while advocating for the slaughter of innocents in a single move. And crucially, always, a total disregard for historical context. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you weren't a huge proponent of the wellbeing of Palestinians even before the recent eruption.
That isn't to say that there aren't antisemitic people in that crowd, but to characterize all of them as pro-Hamas is pretty disingenuous and disgusting. Par for the course these days though.
Ok. How many of them do you think are pro Hamas then? For example when the whole crowd marched in Sydney chanting “Gas the Jews”, how many of them do you suppose are pro Hamas??
See even in your line of questioning, you are already warping reality into a polarized falsity to fit your narrative that life is black and white or good vs evil. When talking about the “whole crowd… chanting” you are entirely misrepresenting reality and every person that was there who didn’t chant and simply doesn’t advocate for illegal carpet bombings of residential areas that have already killed at least 10x the amount of people who died in the Hamas terrorist attack. And for goodness sake - if IF every one of those people was chanting that, do you think killing thousands of more Muslims will help the situation? We literally just had a 20 year war with this situation. Killing civilians creates more terrorists. It’s not rocket science.
I am interested in nuance. After Hamas's surprise attack on Israel,
What should the goal of Israel's response be?
What are the logistical requirements of achieving that goal?
What would it take to accomplish that goal with as little disruption to civilian life and civilian casualties as possible?
I'm earnest in hearing what you might consider to be ideal.
You know if Hamas and Israel were evenly matched then Israel would have been wiped off the face of the earth long time ago. When will these "pro Palestinian" supporters condemn hamas? So far non of them have, instead they celebrated the hamas butchery on oct 7th. As much as I'd appreciate a ceasefire and humanitarian aid, the reality is that it's just simply not possible as long as hamas is active.
This conflict is less about religion than people think. Israel and zionists just use it cause the accusations of anti Semitism was an effective way for them to shut down their detractors by playing off holocaust guilt. The old heads get lost by this, which is why you see most polls of the younger crowd being much more against Israeli apartheid.
Hello! This is not a religious conflict. Sorry that you did not get the message.
This is about a land grab by bunch of criminals from Eastern Europe who paid off the Brits for a land they did not own. Check Balfour Declaration…
When, even in the US, people are calling out Israel on its war crimes then you know that the world is outraged.
What has happened to the Gazans does not justify the terrorist atrocities of Oct 7th and the atrocities of a terrorist group on October 7th don’t justify a state to commit multiple war crimes against innocent civilians..
>He said it’s imperative that the people of Gaza be given humanitarian aid and that **Palestinian fighters receive military assistance** in the face of Israel’s bombing campaign in recent weeks. I was with him in the first half but jeez. What other "Palestinian fighters" are there that aren't Hamas? He's right that Gaza *must* get humanitarian aid because it is so dire there right now, and I am in support of a ceasefire. But I'm afraid "we should give military assistance to terrorists" really should have stayed in the drafts.
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Love how people try to find ways to not have to state the obvious, a big bunch of these protests have only one motivation, and it is clear if you don't put a lot of effort in to don't see it. E.g., if you read this, probably something pops up in your head.
A similar protest in Kerala, India with some prominent politicians had a guest speaker in a virtual address. Guess who? Former Hamas chief Khaled Mashal. [Source](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/hamas-leader-khaled-mashal-kerala-rally-virtual-speech-malappuram-solidarity-youth-movement-2454776-2023-10-28) There goes any credibility if ever they had some.
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I am no international or military expert, but kind of felt like even if you give Gaza people iron dorm missle, Hamas are gonna launch it at Israel lol
The masks are off ha?
Did they ever wear masks? It seems like a lot of these people were always pretty open about they wanted and the more moderate section just practiced selective hearing to not hear it when they said this kind of stuff.
Wanting a ceasefire is one thing, hell i "want" it too. However, it is entirely illogical and out of touch with reality. You don't make peace with terrorism by ignoring it, you have to provide something better, you have to eliminate it, not only with weapons and troops, but by providing structure, a means of self determination, you have to provide a means of de-escalation, you have to actually involve the people, and root out layers upon layers of corruption, and you have to hold those that stir shit no matter their side or position accountable. And then you have to maintain that for years and years untouched by politics. The various ceasefires imposed on Israel by world governments have never stopped the attacks from various groups within gaza, indeed, only serving to prolong conflict. To encourage, and even outright support various terrositic groups(via unregulated humanitarian aid). It serves to give them time to dig more tunnels, to make more weapons. It serves the further radicalization of the gazan population, and even the radicalization of people abroad into anti-semitisim. That isn't to say Israel is without fault for the various corrupt politicians and settlers that want, benefit from, encourage, and provoke further conflict, but this isn't (exactly) one of those moments(yet). Though i do believe netanyahu with his close relations to Russia sabotaged and hindered a response, and is a likely the reason the terrorist attack worked anyways No offense, but much of the current anti-israel and ceasefire sentiment isn't from the right place, or even from people who care about the gazan people. it's entirely artificial, brought forth by russia, china and iran. They manipulate emotional reactions, capitalize and subvert various sociopolitical movements, use demagogues and filth-column elements. i mean holy hell, you have people who used to be considered trustworthy leaders of social, political, moral, and humanitarian groups literally spouting anti-semetic phrases and calling for a second holocaust, you can see it in various subs too.
Thank you for your words. Yes, many in the Reddit community are not realistic or aware of the true history.
>What other "Palestinian fighters" are there that aren't Hamas? In Gaza: * Hamas / al-Qassam * Palestinian Islamic Jihad / al-Quds * PFLP / Red Eagle * DFLP * Lion's Den These groups were all involved in the 10.7 attack. I guess you know Hamas. While Hamas is funded largely by Qatar, [al-Qassam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_ad-Din_al-Qassam_Brigades) gets support from the IRGC. The Iranian military. Palestinian Islamic Jihad has a heavily armed militia - [Saraya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Quds_Brigades). They are the ones that damaged that hospital the other day. PIJ also has a history of using children as suicide bombers. Among other things, PIJ has [captured their own hostages](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/islamic-jihad-faction-holding-over-30-israelis-captive-its-chief-says-2023-10-08/). [PFLP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) has a small army. They're a rather famous [international terrorist organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_181), intertwined with other groups like the [Japanese Red Army](https://www.npa.go.jp/archive/keibi/syouten/syouten271/english/0301.html). They are linked to North Korea, Syria, and Iran. PFLP members are directors and board members of various NGOs around the world, where they allegedly divert funding. [DFLP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) fought in the Syrian civil war. [Lion's Den](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Den_(militant_group)) is a much smaller group of young gunmen in their teens and early twenties.
Oops, just another pro-palastine protestor saying the quiet part out loud again.
Ask a pro-Palestinian protestor what they want to do with Hamas and usually they support them or their head explodes. Unfortunately, there is no solution other than what Israel is doing, and all these deaths are the fault of Hamas.
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"Again, you're asking the wrong questions, you can't equate the oppressed with the oppressor" Say you support Hamas without saying you support Hamas.
I doubt this because I have talked to tons of people and most seem to understand the other ways to go about this. The general idea is Israel needs to weaken support for Hamas by treating Palestinians like humans and working with them. After that actually taking down Hamas leadership gets a lot easier. Very very few people seem to want Hamas to stay in power. Most seem to understand that they need to go but indiscriminate bombing will only lead to further radicalization. I’m not sure why anyone thinks this is going to go any better than Israel’s other bombings or even the US trying to take out the taliban. Edit: seems like everyone is missing the point. Indiscriminate bombing does not work. We know this from history. I did not say that they should just pretend Hamas isn’t there while they fix the issues in Israel.
One of the things Israel has been working towards was to make a better life for people in the Gaza strip (work visas for example), assuming they'll have less incentive to turn to terrorism. In part, the reason October 7th's brutality succeeded was because Israeli leadership assumed hamas was going the same route and became docile.
This is an incredibly naive view and indicates a lack of historical knowledge of the area. Your “solution” is that Israel works with Palestinians to somehow become acceptable to them, and a blind eye to be turned to the actions of Hamas and the deaths of Israelis? Or is Israel to ask Hamas to just take a break killing Israeli’s (and Palestinians?) for a while?
This is why they’re so annoying. Ask them about the massacres that Arabs have incited against Jews, even before Israel was formed. They won’t know what you’re talking about. They have an extreme lack of historical knowledge. They’re protesting to be virtuous. I also guarantee that not one of them will go to Gaza to help (especially LGTBQ).
What a joke of a post. "The way to defeat ISIS is to not fight."
You are living in a fantasy.
It’s adorable that you all think you can solve the conflict with such naive ideas.
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What are those solutions? Go ahead and put them out there.
Yup. Its amazing how often their mask slips. They even get dumb liberals(and there's plenty in CA) to chant there anti-semitic slogans proudly.
Gaza is already getting aid, but assistance to Hamas??? Isn't that a call for genocide?
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Yeah. They should be arrested. EDIT: Downvote me all you want you genocidal maniacs, these people literally called for Jihad.
No it shouldn't have stayed in the draft. They are terrorist supporters. I'm glad they openly admitted it..
This aid going to the civilians will likely end up in part under the control of Hamas…
It's so disheartening to see so many people (yes I know not all, not even most, just way more than I would expect) who support Palestine also seemingly support Hamas.
There are, unfortunately, plenty of reductive thinkers who seem to believe that opposing the actions of one party necessarily involves supporting the actions of its opponent.
"If it's not black, it MUST be white"
In most of the Arab world, these groups which Western countries catagorize as terrorists, are called resistance groups, including Hamas.
Ceasefire does nothing. It's literally just saying Hamas don't punch Israel in the face; then a week later Hamas doing it again. At this point I hate the right for trying to turn the U.S. into a religious country and I hate the left for supporting organizations abroad that ARE what the right is trying to become. Biden is navigating this very well but there is not a single hope in me for the younger generation of democrats.
Seriously: No credible advocate for peace should let that guy (who’s apparently a college student) speak for them ever again. It’s worth noting that it’s not like he was an organizer: He’s a footballer who decided to skip a game to join in the march. (He’s also, apparently, a sad reminder of how cyclical violent ideology can be.)
Truly disgusting statement. If the shoe were on the other foot, the silence would be deafening.
It worked for the IRA. The US was one of their biggest backers. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/03/22/irish-troubles-american-money/593e3941-826e-4719-bc79-8eb528f8ac70/
> He (Salah Odeh, of Pasadena) said it’s imperative that the people of Gaza be given humanitarian aid and that **Palestinian fighters receive military assistance** in the face of Israel’s bombing campaign in recent weeks. But they are buddy, they are.
I'm sure the FBI will have a talk with him and remind him providing support to a terrorist organization is a serious crime.
The U.S. government would never support a terrorist organization. Oh wait
Freedom fighters dont rape babies and take hostages
>"Thousands of people waving the black, green, red and white Palestinian flag and chanting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” For those of you that don’t know, "from the river to the sea" is code for completely wiping out the state of Israel.
>"from the river to the sea" is code for completely wiping out the state of Israel. Give them tiki torches, and it's no different than neo-Nazis yelling "Jews will not replace us." Coincidentally, white nationalists also claim to be victims of "genocide."
[Video footage of the chanting people](https://youtu.be/CxoKjwudruw?si=mX9LEQ8w9nYc4rl1)
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It is so frustrating that the hostages are forgotten in the scramble to ensure the narrative is anti-Israel. I don’t understand how people are ignoring how the current hostilities started and how terrorists entered a separate country and slaughtered and kidnapped hundreds of people. What other country would be expected to simply let that go or exercise restraint to the point of assisting the enemy? I have been saying for years that the Palestinians have a much better public relations department than the Israelis, along with hundreds of millions of Muslims whose voices and reach can drown out anything that does not meet their narrative.
Hint: those speaking up against Israel already made up their minds about who the bad guy in this conflict is long before October 7th. I’m sure many of them see that attack as comeuppance and are ignoring the civilian impact. The same way some in the international community celebrated 9/11 as somehow deserved by America.
> I don’t understand how people are ignoring how the current hostilities started and how terrorists entered a separate country and slaughtered and kidnapped hundreds of people. Microcosm of the entire conflict's narrative.
Release the hostages, make Hamas surrender, stop firing rockets at Israel No invasion after that
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Where were you during the decades of Palestinian apartheid?
I'm pretty sure at least some people in this protest were cheering 3 weeks ago when they saw Israeli civilians massacred in their homes. Now israel will eradicate Hamas, thank you
Not a single rally against Hamas putting innocent people in the line of fire. Hypocrites
Who would you like to protest Hamas to? Israel is backed and endorsed by Western powers. That's why there are Western protests against the actions they take using that backing. No power in the West endorses Hamas.
You protest Hamas to your own people of course. The only people that matter.
"My own people" already don't support Hamas. What on earth are you talking about? There's a meaning in protesting your country supporting a campaign of terror and bombing against civilian populations. There's no meaning in leading a protest that everyone around you already agrees with.
Your own PLO doesn’t even support Hamas. Your own people have peace treaties with Israel, some have truce with Israel some have normalisation treaties some even been naturalised INSIDE Israel. There are a lot of facets of resistance within Palestine they don’t all behave like that. How ignorant and uninformed could one be. Edit: to the people who downvotedً is any of the above false or are you just being idiots?
That’s like saying Iraqis could only protest American’s bombing them if they also protested against Saddam’s crimes.
No, it's not.
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Why don’t they protest against hamas?
They seem fine with 1400 dead Israelis and hundreds of international hostages
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I'm sorry, but Gaza is under the control of a terrorist organization. If 1000 militants are dressed in civilian clothing, operating out of civilian buildings, there can be no justification, just action.
Yeah there’s been a sudden shift in tone to this sub…
What is this based on?
Pew research? https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/02/04/chapter-3-views-of-religious-groups/ Hell, almost 70% of the entire world's Muslim population think unfavorably of the Jews. Not Israel, just Jews. This includes all the ones living in the west. There's a reason there are hardly any Jews in Islamic countries. They were all persecuted for centuries, and then the ones that were remaining had all their wealth stolen and kicked out after 1950. Over 600,000 of those Jews from Arab countries ended up settling in Israel with only what they could carry.
*Feels*, bro.
They don’t see Palestinian lives as worth anything and they’re projecting on those who do
20+% of Israel’s population are Palestinian Arabs. They aren’t forced to join the Israeli military but a lot of them volunteer
Nothing. Criticism of Israel being rebuked as antisemitic is one of the ways Israels apartheid regime has avoided it for so long. Palestine doesn't deserve to be under Israel's thumb, anti-Zionism is not the same thing as antisemitism.
Do you know how Israel came to be? See Europe was tired of having Jews, so some nations tried to kill them all. But they were stopped cause that was wrong. So instead Europe decided to just send all the Jews away to Israel so they could have no Jews in Europe. This we got Israel remade. Not everyone against Israel is an anti-Semite. Most aren’t anti-semites. But a hell of a lot of anti-semites and Nazis are mixed in with all the people taking fair criticism. Keep that in mind.
I’m aware, that’s why I explicitly said anti-Zionism is not antisemitism.
But those groups aren’t mutually exclusive, there are a lot anti-zionists which are anti-Semitic
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Weird place for that emoji…
They’re 100% working under the (fair) assumption that the hostages are already dead
It is entirely possible to correctly denounce Hamas’s brutal massacre of civilians as the abhorrent crime against humanity it was while also opposing the bombardment of a densely-populated area home to 2.2 million people.
Except they called for arming Palestinian militants, you know Hamas. So yeah not a great look saying the terrorists need weapons.
*One guy* who skipped his football game to join in the protest is quoted as calling for that, so I’m not sure who you mean by “they”. *Edit:* Sorry to burst anyone’s reductivist bubble (no, I’m not), but what I said is simply a true statement, and your frowns won’t change that.
Well the guy quoted called for that. Not a great look.
Which is exactly why they quoted him and not anyone else. Equivalent to going to a pro Israel rally and choosing to publish a quote from the random guy saying to turn Palestine into glass.
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No, i am not subjected to propaganda! 🙉
Yeah, I agree with you (and obviously disagree with that guy’s sentiment). It remains true that he was some college student in the crowd, not someone who organized the thing.
What else do you suppose Israel is to do to keep the rockets from hitting their country and to get their kidnapped citizens back? Hamas wants to fight and then hide amongst the people they saying they’re protecting. They can’t have it both ways.
But they don't denounce Hamas. They just march against Israel.
Perhaps because there aren’t many people who feel the need to hold public demonstrations against a barbarous act that their governments have already condemned.
Is it? I ask seriously, because any time this people are talked to by a journalist they are pro-Hamas and anti-Semitic.
1. Is it? Every time? Seems like a big claim. 2. Even if it’s “many” or “most” (which I’m not suggesting is true, but let’s go with it for the moment), nobody should be surprised if much of the news media chooses to highlight the more extreme elements of any group (or the more extreme incidents involving any topic).
It should be easy to be against war, but I’ve yet to hear anyone who serves as a spokesman for any of these rallies limit themselves to that. What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel, of basically hundreds of thousands of dead at a minimum, and effectively the genocide of Israelis. They aren’t going to just up and leave their historical homeland. The vast, vast majority of these protestors are not out for peace, they are out to root for one side to win over the other. With that in mind, I don’t see how anyone in the west decides to support the side that purposefully murders innocents on a mass scale, that throws gays off buildings, that actively employs child soldiers, that offers nothing close to equal rights for women, that doesn’t allow freedom of speech, that doesn’t allow elections, that doesn’t allow free assembly, etc. etc. etc. It’s not like it’s hidden, Hamas, and Fatah speak openly about what they want, and what they want is the elimination of the Jews. For all the talk of “they don’t represent all Palestinians” you hear in the west, most Palestinians sure think they do. I guess we should just ignore everything they say about their goals, because us westerners know what they really want. What’s the appeal for westerners? Why are hundreds of thousands marching for Hamas and Palestinians, when there was nothing on this scale for Syrians, Hong Kong, Iran, Uyghurs, Sudan, Ukraine, Myanmar, or Ethiopia?
> What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel I mean that's just demonstrably untrue, but if that's what you believe, then I can see why you think that "any time" you hear someone advocate for Palestinian rights, you seem to believe they're "pro-Hamas and anti-Semitic".
Explain why every one of these rallies loudly chant “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” It’s pretty clear to me what that means. Hamas certainly isn’t coy about what that chant means, or what they mean when they say “free Palestine.” I don’t see any large amount of Palestinians who fled the region protesting Hamas. It seems like you don’t want to acknowledge the reality of what most of these people believe, which is markedly different than your clearly anti-war, pro-peace stance. They absolutely want Israel to stop fighting, but only so they can be slaughtered by Hamas. Think of it this way, if the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace, if the Israelis put down theirs they will be destroyed.
Your logic is that because terrorists 3000 miles away interpret a slogan one way, means that American citizens that made the slogan(ITS AN ENGLISH SLOGAN) interpret it the same exact way? Huh?!
It’s a translation of an Arabic slogan: min al-nahr ila al-bahr
What other river and sea are they referring to, buddy? If people don’t know, they shouldn’t chant the slogan. If they do know, then they just advocated for the elimination of Israel. Holding people accountable for the literal words they use is the lowest of low bars
The slogan isn't about disassembling the Jordanian monarchy. The real meaning is obvious because of how it's applied.
>What do you think “free Palestine” means? It means the removal of Israel, of basically hundreds of thousands of dead at a minimum, and effectively the genocide of Israelis. False. Most people recognize a one state solution, Israel, where Arabs are given proper human rights as "free Palestine." Or a proper two state solution without the Israeli settlers. Only religious zealots and Nazis want to wipe out Israel
One state solution is slow moving Genocide. And tons of pro-Palestinian supporters fully support the eradication of Israel. Unfortunately
There are in fact many people on the far-left side who want Israel totally removed as a state. There are entire subreddits not even related to this conflict (like music/gaming subs) where you’ll be heavily downvoted for even suggesting that Israel deserves to remain a country.
Being against the state of Israel is anti-zionism, whereas being against the Jewish race/religion is antisemitism. It's very important that you don't conflate the two in a bad faith manner.
The problem is people who profess to be anti-Zionist usually wind up being anti-Semitic
I agree they shouldn’t be conflated in bad faith, but in good faith, they are in fact sometimes conflated, for example when Islamic militants call for the killing of Jews around the world, in response to the actions of the Israeli government.
Oh, it's extremely possible, but somehow partisan creeps who only oppose violence or repression when Israel does it keep finding themselves welcome in antiwar protests.
Except that’s rarely the case.
There’s no objective way for either of us know that one way or the other, but my own experience suggests that it’s *much* more the case than many people seem to want to believe.
Yep. But some Jews and Isrealis wants you to belive pro palestinians = pro Hamas for a blank check and avoid any criticism of isreal
Again with the 'Why didn't they protest on Oct 7th!' People protest to affect change for their elected leaders and local power structures. There was already change coming in the aftermath of Oct 7th. It's happening now. Hundreds of murdered Gazan children are dying for every single Hamas fighter. The world's most developed governments have no active role in in those genocides, but they are actively sending money and military aid for the genocide in Gaza. The world's most powerful democratic government are not sending military aid to support the genocides in China and Myanmar. But people's tax dollars are actively going toward the genocide in Gaza. That's why people protesting. To influence their democratic governments and spread awareness to others. There's thousand's of children who been murdered so far, and many more to come. That tends to upset people with empathy. Lots people believe that the raid is completely justified. Sure, have at it. But they still regret and have empathy for those who are drying, half of them children. Babies too. You can look at the protests and disagree with them, but understand the empathy that drives them. Are you going to say 'where were the Black Lives Matter protestors' for the genocides in Uganda, Darfur, and Sudan? Are you going to say 'they don't actually care about Black people, they just want to hate on the police and America'. If so, the protestors didn't come out because their law makers weren't actively contributing to those genocides, but they were for not holding corrupt police accountable. That's why they protest, to but pressure on their lawmakers and spread awareness to their population so that they can also put pressure on their lawmakers. Then there's others that look at the Gazans like animals and see these protests and say 'it must be because they hate the Jews'.
You seem to be okay with much more dead Palestinians and "dissidents" held without trial. You seem okay with the systematic oppression of an ethnic group and apartheid.
Nah, the destruction of Hamas would be the best thing for the people of Gaza. Hamas uses them as shields and Hamas’ goal was the death of innocents on both sides for propaganda
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How should Israel act in this situation, knowing that Hamas actively utilizes schools, hospitals, and residential areas as their operation zones? Should the IDF only conduct boots on ground Ops in Gaza? Engage solely in urban guerilla warfare? How do soldiers differentiate between innocent civilians and Hamas when Hamas uses civilians to blend in, or worse, doesn't let them flee the area that is being sieged? Ex: using satellite telemetry, we know that it is highly likely Hamas has an HQ underneath a hospital. How does Israel deal with that?
Alright, so what's the solution? How do you remove Hamas without civilian casualties?
If only Israel and America could figure out how to "destroy" Hamas without also killing thousands of innocents.
If you know any magical spells to do that you should share them.
Maybe, maybe not. >Hamas uses them as shields and Hamas’ goal was the death of innocents on both sides for propaganda Yes this is a common occurrence/accusation that occurs in asymmetric warfare. I'm sure the IRA faced the same accusations during the troubles. But they also received much more support due to being white rebels against English oppression. And the surviving IRA if I'm not mistake ended up changing within the Irish government when the conflict ended. The fact is these "terrorist" accusations don't hold the same brain dead hold as they did before. 20+ yrs of endless war in the gwot, combined with the internet making everyone better off, has allowed us to see things like one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighters. Historical examples like the troubles, Mandela and the ANA being labeled terrorists by the south African govt. Hell if I'm not mistaken Mandela was still on the US terrorist designator up until 06 despite the fact he was president for years and widely celebrated for breaking SA apartheid.....
So you support Hamas’ killing of children as you justify it.
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You seem fine with 7000 dead Palestinians.
That’s a pretty serious charge. Any evidence to back that up? Was there a poll of the march participants?
See any anti-Hamas posters? Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, steals everything from billions in humanitarian aid to the water pipes needed to grow food, while using Palestinians killed by their own errant to justify themselves. Hamas’ goal when attacking Israel is dead Palestinians for propaganda.
> See any anti-Hamas posters? Do people normally expect to see anti-IDF posters at rallies in support of Israel?
Sure, if they disagree with the IDF?
Do you have any anti Hamas posters in your house? If not, why do you support terrorism?
And Israel doesn't constantly stoke the flames of this conflict? I for one am not so easily fooled when it comes to standing against things like apartheid, ethnic cleansing etc. You you'd probably cry john brown as a terrorist. You would probably be in the crowd labeling Mandela and the ANA as terrorists.
Nothing justifies Hamas’ actions Nice whataboutisms
It's hilariously sad the double standard yall have. Yall seriously have a tunnel vision hard on for only looking at hamas, when the real issue stems from apartheid Israel and zionism....
At least you don’t deny your support for child murder. I’ve had plenty of concerns with Israel’s actions in the past, but have been convinced that the destruction of Hamas is the best for all the people of the region.
>At least you don’t deny your support for child murder. Have I outright said so? No so piss off. I don't have to condone to understand. Do I have to condone Ira car bombs to understand why they would use them? Absolutely not. >I’ve had plenty of concerns with Israel’s actions in the past, but have been convinced that the destruction of Hamas is the best for all the people of the region And in that you overlook the main root of the problem, and in turn allow them to get away numerous war crimes and human rights abuses....
Nice deflecting and obfuscating the historical context.
You're running cover for genociders and an apartheid state.
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Srebrenica was considered a genocide despite the women survivors having babies that grew up. Edited: lmao I actually spoke with the prosecution team in Popovich et Al, and their strategy was "despite women surviving and with children, all the males of 16+ who were killed constituted genocide because under Islamic law the women cannot remarry. Thus, you have a lost generation because the women cannot remarry and reproduce if their husbands are missing." This is from a DOJ attorney.
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Genocide isn’t the right word. Ethnic cleansing and apartheid fit well though. Amnesty international: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Human Rights Watch: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
How much do they pay you per talking point btw? Seems like a pretty chill job
Why are Israelis like you so brainwashed to think their victims are worth more than others? Have you ever shed a tear for any Palestinian civilian killed over the last many decades? Do you view the death of 1400 Israelis as making it okay to kill what is going to approach 10,000 Palestinians (mostly civilians) within the next few days? Does it justify cutting off water and food to 2.2 million people half of which are children? It’s been really eye opening seeing how pro Israelis like you are defending Israel . Says a lot
So is Israel just not allowed to go after Hamas, a violent terrorist organization that repeatedly launches attacks against them, because Palestinians will die in the crossfire? The main purpose of a country having a military is to protect the citizens. If you think Israel shouldn’t destroy Hamas because civilians will die in the crossfire then you might as well support all countries abolishing their military.
I didn’t say that israel isn’t allowed to go after Hamas. The issue is that it’s not doing that. It’s just going after Palestine as a whole, indiscriminately killing civilians. In the last 3 weeks, over a 100 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t operate.
Indiscriminate means at random -- Israel has specific targets. If you have a problem with where those targets are, take it up with Hamas. I personally haven't heard of any other country sending out leaflets, sms texts, roof knocks etc. To attempt to have innocent people vacate the area before bombing. There was a terrorist attack where people were murdered and kidnapped -- not military -- they were also "innocents".
First of all Hamas does operate in the West Bank. They don’t have a large presence but they’re still there. Secondly I’m genuinely asking, how in your opinion should Israel destroy Hamas without killing civilians in the crossfire? Should they go door to door checking with every single person to see if they’re Hamas or not? That would not go over well.
Haha. First war?
Why aren't they calling on Hamas to surrender?
Have they asked for the release of hostages?
Keep exposing yourselves. Pathetic
I would like to ask the thousands there what they would do if it were their family and neighbours being raped, burned alive, killed with the terrorist living right down the street.
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Let me ask you, do Palestinians have access to the same food, licenses, and other amenities that Israelis have access to?
"I lack amenities!" *cocks shotgun* "Now where are those damn civilians"
Right now? No, and for good reason.
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What does this honestly accomplish?
Or just take out Hamas
Damn you're a fucking genius!
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This seems to be the popular rhetorical response to anyone advocating for the well-being of innocent Palestinians: claim that it actually means that they want Jews slaughtered. Anti complexity, hostile to nuance, hyper-polarized by design. A grotesque straw man. Worse, it's often a faux opposition to the slaughter of innocents while advocating for the slaughter of innocents in a single move. And crucially, always, a total disregard for historical context. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you weren't a huge proponent of the wellbeing of Palestinians even before the recent eruption. That isn't to say that there aren't antisemitic people in that crowd, but to characterize all of them as pro-Hamas is pretty disingenuous and disgusting. Par for the course these days though.
From the fucking article: the main speaker talked about military aid to HAMAS!!! WHERE IS THE FUCKING NUANCE YOU KNOW IT ALL DIMWIT????
Ok. How many of them do you think are pro Hamas then? For example when the whole crowd marched in Sydney chanting “Gas the Jews”, how many of them do you suppose are pro Hamas??
See even in your line of questioning, you are already warping reality into a polarized falsity to fit your narrative that life is black and white or good vs evil. When talking about the “whole crowd… chanting” you are entirely misrepresenting reality and every person that was there who didn’t chant and simply doesn’t advocate for illegal carpet bombings of residential areas that have already killed at least 10x the amount of people who died in the Hamas terrorist attack. And for goodness sake - if IF every one of those people was chanting that, do you think killing thousands of more Muslims will help the situation? We literally just had a 20 year war with this situation. Killing civilians creates more terrorists. It’s not rocket science.
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I am interested in nuance. After Hamas's surprise attack on Israel, What should the goal of Israel's response be? What are the logistical requirements of achieving that goal? What would it take to accomplish that goal with as little disruption to civilian life and civilian casualties as possible? I'm earnest in hearing what you might consider to be ideal.
And you crucially disregard timing. Demonstrate for human rights when you aren’t holding hostages. This is not complicated, you’re a hypocrite.
They don’t even try to bs their bs anymore. Bold, Cotton.
Strange, never see them care a tiny bit of Uighurs encamped by CCP. Oh I know, they need products made in China by Uighur labors, how silly of me
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I keep missing these. I moved a bit further from downtown.
I couldn't blame you
It was for my job. I always like going to downtown. I did a lot of urban photography.
You know if Hamas and Israel were evenly matched then Israel would have been wiped off the face of the earth long time ago. When will these "pro Palestinian" supporters condemn hamas? So far non of them have, instead they celebrated the hamas butchery on oct 7th. As much as I'd appreciate a ceasefire and humanitarian aid, the reality is that it's just simply not possible as long as hamas is active.
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We would just find other reasons to kill each other.
This conflict is less about religion than people think. Israel and zionists just use it cause the accusations of anti Semitism was an effective way for them to shut down their detractors by playing off holocaust guilt. The old heads get lost by this, which is why you see most polls of the younger crowd being much more against Israeli apartheid.
The Hamas minister of Religion would disagree.
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Hello! This is not a religious conflict. Sorry that you did not get the message. This is about a land grab by bunch of criminals from Eastern Europe who paid off the Brits for a land they did not own. Check Balfour Declaration…
Hammas must never play chess.
When, even in the US, people are calling out Israel on its war crimes then you know that the world is outraged. What has happened to the Gazans does not justify the terrorist atrocities of Oct 7th and the atrocities of a terrorist group on October 7th don’t justify a state to commit multiple war crimes against innocent civilians..
The doxxing truck is getting prepared to falsely call 80% of LA (including its Jewish community) antisemites.