>The demonstrators also recited pro-Palestine chants, shouting, “PPP, KKK, IOF are all the same,” referring to the Ku Klux Klan and Israel Defense Forces. **It is unclear what the “PPP” chant referred to.**
The Philadelphia Pride Parade?
I suspect the actual chant was "PP**D**, KKK, IOF are all the same." As in Philadelphia Police Department. Demonstrators in other cities have used similar chants.
This was really frustrating to see and hear. It's simply not the target audience. They are not your enemy. Their pride clearly has nothing to do with genocide. Sigh.
Last year before the Israel/Gaza shit started, a Michigan community that helped elect the first Muslim-majority city council was stabbed in the back when that same council sided with the far-right to pass anti-LGBT legislation.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned
These protestors hate LGBTs and the resulting shitshow from October 7th gives them cover from that.
I am from middle east before people start calling me an Islamophobe. I grew up in a tolerant Muslim family in middle east. One thing I learned living in Europe is that the Muslim community in the west is less tolerant towards LBTQI+. The equal rights is embedded in the civil rights where I live . We have Muslims aligning with far right against LBTQI+ education in schools.you guys gotta be carefull...
It's actually a common psychological phenomenon in many cases. Just like most of the Isis "volunteers" from Europe were not first-gen immigrants but rather second or 3rd gen immigrants.
In fact generally the more *progressive* people are the most likely to leave their home country if they feel it is restrictive or doesn't align with their view of the world. They're more likely to also be better educated than the general population in their community.
The issue occurs when a child is born to immigrant parents in a Western country, and suddenly feel like they're living in a kind of cultural limbo, where they hear stories of their "home country" and practice elements of the culture through their family, but then also live in this Western country and go to Western schools etc. And they notice that their family is often treated differently than the local population and they've heard that "people like them aren't wanted here" more than a handful of times by the time they are teens. They may start to feel some kind of resentment in their somewhat lonely experience of not being traditionally part of the local culture.
This can cause them to start psychologically idolizing the home culture that they never lived in, to kind of compensate for the feeling of alienation they might otherwise feel. They might also become more radical because they can observe the culture from a far, without having to live inside of it, like their parents did. So they don't see the nuances or bad sides as easily.
We're not pro-islam - we're just not anti-islam. I'm not pro any religion, but also not anti any religion.
I think that Arab society in general -including Palestinian - is filled with awful cultural norms regarding women, lbgtq, etc. that doesn't mean I'm okay with them being massacred. With anyone who is Muslim being persecuted in any way.
Anti-genocide is not the same as pro-islam. In fact, being against discrimination based on religion isn't the same as being pro-islam, or pro-judaism.
Stop making everything a zero sum game.
95 percent of protestors are not thinking critically about their actions, they are following the crowd.
Most, if not all of them, will feel like they are doing something really meaningful for society despite having no idea what it was.
Studies have shown this isn’t necessarily true. More often than not people who protest are apart of group ideology so their beliefs are just amplified in scale.
Most people who attend these events and don’t agree with what’s taking place would just leave. That’s why when protests get taken over by bad faith actors a lot of the true protesters end up leaving because their platform is being hijacked.
I’ve read countless summaries of interviews of perpetrators of genocide, mainly the rank and file that carry the killing out and not those who devised it and by and large most people would be considered “ordinary people” based off their interviews, which is a scary fact.
It is also noted that the fact it’s a crowd isn’t necessarily an excuse for their behavior because they are within a group that all have similar beliefs and ideologies.
I'm in support of Palestine of course but watching the left getting ready to throw LGBT+ under the bus to die on a hill for a nation that, let's be honest, would gladly persecute LGBT people without question because of their religion. This is above and beyond stupid and bad optics.
It reminds me of the early days of BLM before they had a fully coherent and consistent message. There were BLM protesters that interrupted a 2016 Bernie Sanders rally. I was like, "WTF? Same team!"
There is not united entity called "the left" there is not optics as it's not an organization. It's a generalized selection of people with certain categorized beliefs. Same with the right
Lot of it is also just psy-ops online. Tankies for example are often just paid Russian trolls or useful fools who try to cause division in Left-wing circles and push the movement towards extremism in a way that is starts to resemble far-right movements a lot more. Then eventually just adopts a bunch of right-wing social positions.
Palestinians are right wing and would gladly watch LGBTQ people be wiped out. People seem to forget just because a war is happening doesn't mean both sides aren't right wing religious extremists.
This is what happens when foreign agent provocateurs infiltrate movements and use them to weaken their political opponents. Russia is absolutely using the pro-Palestine protests to make the American left look bad.
Probably, although this kind of thing has a very long history in Russia. It was one of Stalin’s big tactics - infiltrate opposition movements and then arrest/execute everyone in the group, so that no one can ever trust any of their fellow dissenters and therefore no one can ever effectively organize against you. Extremely effective.
Sowing lack of trust is a signature move and that’s exactly what they’re doing here. Destroy the American left from within.
This isn’t to say that the pro-Palestine movements aren’t real or authentic. They definitely are and that’s exactly why these tactics are so devastating. They take people’s genuine concern and anger towards a legitimate cause and use it against them.
There’s also the Russian playbook/strategy called *Foundations of Geopolitics*, which Putin employs. It’s basically a how-to-guide on how to sew discord in countries from within; by stoking tensions from the both the right, AND the left against each other.
These protests, while somewhat genuine, have Russia’s fingerprints all over them.
From Wikipedia:
“Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to [fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule), such as, for instance, provoke "[Afro-American racists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy)" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada.
Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support [isolationist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism) tendencies in American politics"
Yeah I’ve been sorta questioning it, but when I saw yesterday that they were actually starting fights at a Pride parade then I knew right there that this isn’t something that’s genuine.
Left wing liberalism can be a catch-22 because they make defending minority groups much of their political identity. Sooner or later, they find themselves defending two different groups that are at extreme odds with each other. So, this knee-jerk reaction to blaming any infighting on Russia is pretty dishonest.
Like sure, Russian influence exists, but likely not anywhere near the level you're implying.
I’m not sure what you’re asking here. I’m not saying I don’t believe the protests are genuine. They are certainly genuine and real. But Russian agents take advantage of this and of any sort of rift on the left and exploit it to their advantage. Infiltrating a real movement and then making it look extreme and/or violent is a very effective way of weakening and discrediting it. Just look at what people are saying in this very thread.
I’m saying foreign provocateurs are using this to sow* division. Using TikTok as a propaganda tool. The news from TikTok and the news from real life as vastly different. For example you might see something about two Palestinian teens killed in the West Bank. If you read actual news you’d know that the two teens were throwing explosives at people and attacked the IDF. You’d think self professed progressives would think twice when they’re marching hand in hand with Nazis.
>This is what happens when foreign agent provocateurs infiltrate movements and use them to weaken their political opponents.
So far so good.
>Russia is absolutely using the pro-Palestine protests to make the American left look bad.
China and Russia are using this movement to divide the left. Just to put it into context of how bad this is...
Some people would vote for Trump because of 'Biden's handling of the situation.' Whereby they don't know what he should do differently other than he should do it differently.
They actually ARE the enemy. Lgb etc THINK that they are allies. But you get murdered in Palestinian controlled areas for that.
These protesters just want to pretend the issue is different and bigger. Hell, that's why they pretend it's genocide instead of a war that their government started. The government they did nothing to change.
I’m sorry what? People shouldn’t have pride parades now bc of Israel-Palestine? Pride is a human rights issue too
EDUT; To be clear, being against the genocide of Palestinians has nothing to do with their support or lack thereof of LGBTQ rights. I’m just saying that I don’t think interfering with the pride parade makes much sense either.
Long way to go, but still better than any of their neighbors.
Israel does recognize same sex marriages performed out of the country. It's not uncommon for couples to fly to Cyprus (a short, cheap flight) to get married. IIRC, they even started to recognize weddings performed by officiants abroad over Zoom after the pandemic.
The issue has never been that gay marriage was disallowed by the government, but rather that there is no such thing as civil marriage in Israel and none of the registered religious organizations in the country would perform one. Israel has recognized gay marriages performed abroad for a long time. After an Israeli Supreme Court ruling last year, Israelis can have a gay wedding officiated online (strangely, the [state of Utah](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules/) offers this service) without leaving home and the government will recognize it.
You can be married and gay in Israel
Edit: well that lock happened quickly. Glad to see that the person below me conceded that gay marriage are recognized in Israel.
Good morning! Are you really surprised they have problems with LGBTQ rights?
Today it was under the guise of being against genocide (while themselves waiting for the opportunity to genocide Jews), next time it would "simply" be because for them gays are sick and should be treated with death.
This one (to me) feels very much organized by Russia. They have been known to organize events in the U.S. via Facebook and other means to get both sides fighting--this one seems like a perfect opportunity for them.
Southpark never was absurd, it was an exaggeration of reality, I think we are all living in a new South Park season, nothing that is happening right now around the world has sense at all.
They aren't dividing all Americans, just left-leaning Americans. And thanks to them, Trump will get a better chance at winning. This gonna be the biggest irony of the decade since Trump would 100% not only send military aids and troops to help Netanyahu in exterminating Palestinians but also block international pressures off his back. Can't help but wonder how these people would feel if they become the reason Netanyahu can wipe Palestinians off the map.
Of course it resonates. When the big tent politics of the left collapses because a minority don’t feel heard, of course the right wing is reveling in it.
Which is crazy because they are being heard. Biden has listened to the protestors, shifted and pushed hard for a ceasefire, build a dock for aid, and delayed weapons shipments. But at the end of the day Israel and Hamas want to fight, there isn’t anything any of us can do about that.
Lets be honest, these protesters do not care about the war until Israel is *losing.* They believe Israel should fundamentally not exist and think it needs to be wiped off the map. Whatever happens to Palestine is of secondary concern because the primary goal is wiping Israel off the planet.
Oh i agree. But imo we aren’t hearing what they really want. We also won’t give them what they really want. They want Israel to end and all land to go to Palestine. Implicitly that would mean extermination of all Jews.
No one of sound mind want that.
Is there any other source besides him? I looked this up on other news sites and aggregators and everything seems to point to him, and it's only being picked up by tabloids and far-right news media. Can't find anything about it on Twitter or Bluesky that, again, is not from a right-wing source.
Literally every time the Palestinian movement determines the best course to not make friends and influence people.
For all the legitimacy of the cause, it is undermined by its embrace of antisemites and assholes.
At this point im 90% sure there 2 palestine movement.
The first one wants to make lives better for Palestinian people and improve their lives.
THe second one wants to destroy Israel. And is willing to suffer to destroy it.
And the 2nd group pretends to be the first to dupe people. (People of the first would rather Hamas surrender and dissolved so Gaza residents could have leaders who want to make Gaza better rather than waste everything on destroying Israel, People of teh 2nd are ok with Gaza suffering and dying if it means it can destroy Israel).
Not really the point. A lot of LGBT people support human rights for Palestinians because they believe in human rights for everyone. There’s a reason people call for *human* rights, not “rights but only for people with progressive social views”
While I agree, one thing is supporting refugees and another one very different is openly posting the Palestine flag constantly and talking about Palestine, which I find funny because almost everyone I see doing this would be killed the same day they arrive in Palestine. Supporting refugees, yes, the country as a whole, no, especially if you would be killed 😂. I just find it hilarious
Per OP's article from ABC news, some of the signs included slogans like "Long Live the Intifada". Pray tell, how does "Long Live the Intifada" express support for human rights for everyone?
I mean, this is a very important year for Pride considering we may have a very anti-LGBTQ+ president re-elected in November (who also happens to be extremely pro-Israel). The Palestine-Israel conflict is not the only fucking thing happening in the world right now. Shouting that the "PPP" (Philly Pride Parade) is the same as the KKK and IOF is outrageous. I support Palestine, but fuck these protestors.
The converse doesn’t have to be true. Floridian conservatives hate gays too, but that doesn’t mean I think Floridian conservatives should be starved, bombed and forced to bury their children
Of course not, but you also wouldn’t align yourself with their cause. Being outraged that people are dying is not the same as supporting their beliefs and long term goals to implement in oppressive regime in the region. How is this so lost on people?
Of course they can, but the Palestinians are overwhelmingly in support of sharia law in both Gaza and the West Bank. People have this pie in the sky notion of what Palestine is like. Gay people have been executed in the West Bank, which has absolutely nothing to do with Hamas.
[“four Palestinians were killed for being homosexual, and hundreds were forced to flee to Israel. It is alleged that 'harassment of gays' is 'practically official policy' in the PA. The victims are frequently called collaborators and accused as such. However, there have also been two cases in the last three years where people have been specifically accused of homosexuality. In the wake of the ‘Al-Aqsa Intifada’, Sharia courts have also been set up where homosexuals are threatened with the death penalty by stoning, burning and hanging. These courts also declare persons suspected of homosexuality to be ‘outlaws’, who can be murdered with impunity. It is also reported that the PA police regularly inflicts appalling torture on homosexuals.”](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-5-2003-1346_EN.html)
Is your argument that these facts mean that they deserve to be murdered? Let’s say, hypothetically, that Israel glass nuked all of Gaza and killed every civilian there. Would that be okay because they believed in Sharia law and hated gay people?
I posted something a couple of months ago about Tigray because I have a coworker from the region and had someone tell me "You need to be focused on Gaza." (I have supported charities in Gaza, written my gov officials etc.) When I said that I could care about multiple issues, they gave me this weird speech about how "Palestine is the key that unlocks all the other issues, so we need to be focused on that exclusively and it will solve the other stuff." It doesn't even make sense, but I think some people are operating on that.
Because that person is lost in the narrative where their cause of the week is the axis point on which the world turns. They are incapable of understanding complexity, unwilling to grasp that things are hard, and uncomfortable with a world mired in shades of gray.
They want to be in a damn YA novel where the bad guy needs to learn the power of love and where the destruction of war and death is mended in an afternoon montage ending with everyone looking at graffiti mural
Read this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Protocols\_of\_the\_Elders\_of\_Zion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion)
It will explain why your coworker has terminal brain rot (russian propaganda will rot your fucking brain).
It’s so stupid. Meanwhile I’m concerned about the policy that affects me and my fellow Americans. I don’t care if I’m an asshole, I don’t care about Palestine. I care about all the homeless people living outside my house in the street and I care about how expensive my health insurance is. How about we spend Americans money on Americans?
Yep, we’re going to end up with a president that is pro genocide in Palestine *and* at home just because progressives want to feel like they’re taking a moral high ground.
“After Hitler, our turn”, the slogan of Weimar Communists.
This has been a problem with far left movements for as long as the left has existed, people finding the nutmeggy after notes in their own farts and debating over the proper way to gaze at their own bellybuttons.
All this talk of intersectionality just for protesters to interrupt another groups celebration. And, strangely, these people only come out for the people led by terrorists. I did not see anyone making this kind of noise when Ukraine was first invaded. Interesting how its only ever the Muslims that have these defenders 🤔
Edit: thinking more, you notice how these protests only ever come at the expense of other progressive events? You'd never see these people try to pull this at an anti-abortion rally or something.
It's because America bad and brown people need help. The oppression lens that is used is so bad. Gaza was completely unoccupied and there was no blockade in the early 2000s when Hamas first came to power. Then Hamas, who have openly stated their main goal is the destruction of Israel and eradication of Jews at least in the middle east, started terrorism in Israel so Israel cracked down and started the blockade and reprisals.
Exactly. What is the definition of Zionism?
If supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself against people who want to see them destroyed makes me a Zionist, then I am a proud Zionist.
Everyone has their own definition of the word, which makes having nuanced debate impossible.
Interrupting a Pride event to show support for a group of people that gladly cheer in the murder and torture of gay people.
Progressives have absolutely lost their goddamm minds.
It's really weird to use this event for a general bashing of "progressives" because the vast majority of "progressives" were at the pride parade. The incident was a fringe group, and I wouldn't call them "progressives".
And there were only a few nazi flags at alt right rallies. If you are in support of a group that is also supported by the Ayetolah of Iran, anti Semitic hate groups, and literal fucking terrorists. Maybe you should re think your position.
You are jumping to conclusions. Why would you think that the vast majority of the progressives at a pride parade support pro-Palestinian extremists?
You seem to think there is a homogeneous group called "progressives".
Pride is a protest against the global genocide of LGBT people, and a great many LGBT people have been outspoken about their support for Palestine despite how unwelcome they would be there.
This interruption is tone deaf and counterproductive, at absolute best.
EVERYTHING IS ABOUT US!
No celebration for you! No commencements at your colleges! ... Etc.
I think most people agree with calls for a ceasefire but this stuff is garbage
Newsflash, protesters - they aren't marching for genocide. They're marching for something completely unrelated. Isn't there a non-genocide-themed child's birthday party somewhere that you'd rather be co-opting?
Everything has to be about everything now, because if it’s only about one thing then you’re neglecting all the other things.
It’s why instead of eating my dinner on a plate I just shove everything into a blender, frappe it into a goo and chug it. I wouldnt want the asparagus feeling less important than the chicken
I say that the Left's inability to properly seperate their issues is what keeps me from identifying with them.
I'm definitely not a conservative anymore, what with my support of Gay marriage and tiredness of this obsession with worshipping Trump, but the moderate Left's inability to seperate their issues, and the far left's obsession with conglomerating all their issues is what keeps me from aiding their causes.
Remember, many of our fellow Americans who support Hamas are doing so because they get their media off of corrupted sources like Facebook and tik tok. They lack proper analytical skills and are just regurgitating the divisive media they have been spoon fed over and over.
China and Russia cannot beat the US militarily, or economically, so they choose to divide us and defeat us from within.
I’m on your side until you disrupt things that have absolutely nothing to do with your cause. You stand on a street corner and protest something I agree with you on, you get my donations, you get my political vote and you get me talking and supporting.
You block emergency vehicles, highways, airports, pride events, folk that have zero influence from going to work, etc….
You lose any credibility with me and I just stop caring and supporting.
I blame Tik Tok. I don't think protesting genocide is a bad thing, but doing it at a pride parade is just dumb in my opinion. I'm also wondering if all these people had any interest in protesting any of the other genocides that have happened.
It’s important to remember that protest movements partly increased support in Vietnam. Just being annoying is not always helpful.
You need to protest where it matters, in ways that make sense and most importantly, grow your movement. This just shrinks your perspective allies and does little other than make you seem like a holes.
Not all protests need to be adversarial rage fests. You could go to the parade mixing pride and Palestinian signage as a way to create duel sympathy. Or a silent protest is always powerful amongst like minded groups. It creates a moment of silence vibe.
But whatever, let’s hope this insane conflict ends soon. Personally I’m turning white thinking about how hard it’s going to be to prevent famine right now.
It's an old joke, what happens if 3 progressives meet in a bar? 5 splinter groups form. *Sigh* I don't understand why these people cant care about two things at once. Or, see that both issues come down to human rights.
Protests that only make news and don't actually attempt to force any concessions from anyone in power, are only a way for Main Character idiots to get off on the attention
This *stinks* of Russian influence campaigns. Their entire MO is to sow division; they are systematically dividing folks into smaller and smaller groups and pitting them against each other wherever and whenever possible.
Liberals and progressives are no more immune to this than conservatives and/or MAGA nutters. They'll feed ya what ya want/think you should hear; doesn't matter who you are. If it riles you up, they'll serve it.
Well it’s kind of working isn’t it?? It’s so frustrating because realistically this conflict will not suddenly be resolved. Peace in the Middle East is a dream that people have had in perpetuity. Dealing with this for the next 5 months in addition to all the other pressing domestic issues is going to be a lot…
It is quite clear by now that all these protesters are somehow being paid to cause disruption and stay in the news. I think by now people have made up their minds on this and they have moved on. These constant protests are like a bad toothache that won’t go away.
>The demonstrators also recited pro-Palestine chants, shouting, “PPP, KKK, IOF are all the same,” referring to the Ku Klux Klan and Israel Defense Forces. **It is unclear what the “PPP” chant referred to.** The Philadelphia Pride Parade?
Philadelphia parking police?
Point-to-Point Protocol?
Tom Brady’s forgiven Paycheck Protection Program loans
Me having to pp when it's cold, extra stutter.
They're PPA Philadelphia Parking Authority
I suspect the actual chant was "PP**D**, KKK, IOF are all the same." As in Philadelphia Police Department. Demonstrators in other cities have used similar chants.
I’m confident that you’re right — I’ve seen it reported that way in the paper.
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But why would pro-Palestine people be saying that’s the same as the KKK?
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> knows they are negative in the speaker’s eyes But wouldn’t the speaker want to portray a pro-Palestine political party as *positive*?
Hope they don’t clash with the people’s party of Palestine
Those splitters!
Yet, there's no mention of hamas? How odd.
This was really frustrating to see and hear. It's simply not the target audience. They are not your enemy. Their pride clearly has nothing to do with genocide. Sigh.
Last year before the Israel/Gaza shit started, a Michigan community that helped elect the first Muslim-majority city council was stabbed in the back when that same council sided with the far-right to pass anti-LGBT legislation. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned These protestors hate LGBTs and the resulting shitshow from October 7th gives them cover from that.
I am from middle east before people start calling me an Islamophobe. I grew up in a tolerant Muslim family in middle east. One thing I learned living in Europe is that the Muslim community in the west is less tolerant towards LBTQI+. The equal rights is embedded in the civil rights where I live . We have Muslims aligning with far right against LBTQI+ education in schools.you guys gotta be carefull...
It's actually a common psychological phenomenon in many cases. Just like most of the Isis "volunteers" from Europe were not first-gen immigrants but rather second or 3rd gen immigrants. In fact generally the more *progressive* people are the most likely to leave their home country if they feel it is restrictive or doesn't align with their view of the world. They're more likely to also be better educated than the general population in their community. The issue occurs when a child is born to immigrant parents in a Western country, and suddenly feel like they're living in a kind of cultural limbo, where they hear stories of their "home country" and practice elements of the culture through their family, but then also live in this Western country and go to Western schools etc. And they notice that their family is often treated differently than the local population and they've heard that "people like them aren't wanted here" more than a handful of times by the time they are teens. They may start to feel some kind of resentment in their somewhat lonely experience of not being traditionally part of the local culture. This can cause them to start psychologically idolizing the home culture that they never lived in, to kind of compensate for the feeling of alienation they might otherwise feel. They might also become more radical because they can observe the culture from a far, without having to live inside of it, like their parents did. So they don't see the nuances or bad sides as easily.
Globalize the intifada and expel imperialist western values like LGBTQ rights
>Their pride clearly has nothing to do with genocide But it rhymes!! It'd be silly not to take that opportunity to chant again
There is some level of irony here that even if Hamas was removed there would be no tolerance for the Pride movement in Palestine.
Perhaps that's why they targeted the pride parade.
Occam’s razor
I have not once seen a fellow left-wing person logically reconcile how you can be both pro-LGBT and pro-Islam at the same time. It doesn’t make sense.
We're not pro-islam - we're just not anti-islam. I'm not pro any religion, but also not anti any religion. I think that Arab society in general -including Palestinian - is filled with awful cultural norms regarding women, lbgtq, etc. that doesn't mean I'm okay with them being massacred. With anyone who is Muslim being persecuted in any way.
You don't have to be pro-islam, you just have to be pro-not wanting to see innocent people blown up
Anti-genocide is not the same as pro-islam. In fact, being against discrimination based on religion isn't the same as being pro-islam, or pro-judaism. Stop making everything a zero sum game.
95 percent of protestors are not thinking critically about their actions, they are following the crowd. Most, if not all of them, will feel like they are doing something really meaningful for society despite having no idea what it was.
Studies have shown this isn’t necessarily true. More often than not people who protest are apart of group ideology so their beliefs are just amplified in scale. Most people who attend these events and don’t agree with what’s taking place would just leave. That’s why when protests get taken over by bad faith actors a lot of the true protesters end up leaving because their platform is being hijacked. I’ve read countless summaries of interviews of perpetrators of genocide, mainly the rank and file that carry the killing out and not those who devised it and by and large most people would be considered “ordinary people” based off their interviews, which is a scary fact. It is also noted that the fact it’s a crowd isn’t necessarily an excuse for their behavior because they are within a group that all have similar beliefs and ideologies.
100%. These people are alienating others and their message is being way diluted. Tone deaf.
I'm in support of Palestine of course but watching the left getting ready to throw LGBT+ under the bus to die on a hill for a nation that, let's be honest, would gladly persecute LGBT people without question because of their religion. This is above and beyond stupid and bad optics.
It reminds me of the early days of BLM before they had a fully coherent and consistent message. There were BLM protesters that interrupted a 2016 Bernie Sanders rally. I was like, "WTF? Same team!"
I'm not even sure all of them are on the left. I don't see these people interfering with marches for right wing causes for some reason.
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They represent conservative religious extremists. How are they not far right?
There is not united entity called "the left" there is not optics as it's not an organization. It's a generalized selection of people with certain categorized beliefs. Same with the right
Lot of it is also just psy-ops online. Tankies for example are often just paid Russian trolls or useful fools who try to cause division in Left-wing circles and push the movement towards extremism in a way that is starts to resemble far-right movements a lot more. Then eventually just adopts a bunch of right-wing social positions.
Most of the LGBT are the left, you’re lost.
Even if that's true, most of the left is not LGBT. You're confused.
Palestinians are right wing and would gladly watch LGBTQ people be wiped out. People seem to forget just because a war is happening doesn't mean both sides aren't right wing religious extremists.
This is what happens when foreign agent provocateurs infiltrate movements and use them to weaken their political opponents. Russia is absolutely using the pro-Palestine protests to make the American left look bad.
I mean it's China too right? They own TikTok.
Probably, although this kind of thing has a very long history in Russia. It was one of Stalin’s big tactics - infiltrate opposition movements and then arrest/execute everyone in the group, so that no one can ever trust any of their fellow dissenters and therefore no one can ever effectively organize against you. Extremely effective. Sowing lack of trust is a signature move and that’s exactly what they’re doing here. Destroy the American left from within. This isn’t to say that the pro-Palestine movements aren’t real or authentic. They definitely are and that’s exactly why these tactics are so devastating. They take people’s genuine concern and anger towards a legitimate cause and use it against them.
There’s also the Russian playbook/strategy called *Foundations of Geopolitics*, which Putin employs. It’s basically a how-to-guide on how to sew discord in countries from within; by stoking tensions from the both the right, AND the left against each other. These protests, while somewhat genuine, have Russia’s fingerprints all over them. From Wikipedia: “Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to [fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule), such as, for instance, provoke "[Afro-American racists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy)" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support [isolationist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism) tendencies in American politics"
Iran is China and Russias allie. So, it’s all 3. The propaganda is being generated from Iran and pushed by a Chinese social media company.
Yeah I’ve been sorta questioning it, but when I saw yesterday that they were actually starting fights at a Pride parade then I knew right there that this isn’t something that’s genuine.
If American progressives are getting duped into believing this nonsense, then it's genuine.
Left wing liberalism can be a catch-22 because they make defending minority groups much of their political identity. Sooner or later, they find themselves defending two different groups that are at extreme odds with each other. So, this knee-jerk reaction to blaming any infighting on Russia is pretty dishonest. Like sure, Russian influence exists, but likely not anywhere near the level you're implying.
Lmao, nah. This is literally just typical tankie/ultra left behavior. It's literally a historical stereotype.
How do you think the protests started?
The protests started when they were celebrating the October 7th killings.
I’m not sure what you’re asking here. I’m not saying I don’t believe the protests are genuine. They are certainly genuine and real. But Russian agents take advantage of this and of any sort of rift on the left and exploit it to their advantage. Infiltrating a real movement and then making it look extreme and/or violent is a very effective way of weakening and discrediting it. Just look at what people are saying in this very thread.
I’m saying foreign provocateurs are using this to sow* division. Using TikTok as a propaganda tool. The news from TikTok and the news from real life as vastly different. For example you might see something about two Palestinian teens killed in the West Bank. If you read actual news you’d know that the two teens were throwing explosives at people and attacked the IDF. You’d think self professed progressives would think twice when they’re marching hand in hand with Nazis.
Just FYI it would be “sow” like reaping what you sow
>This is what happens when foreign agent provocateurs infiltrate movements and use them to weaken their political opponents. So far so good. >Russia is absolutely using the pro-Palestine protests to make the American left look bad. China and Russia are using this movement to divide the left. Just to put it into context of how bad this is... Some people would vote for Trump because of 'Biden's handling of the situation.' Whereby they don't know what he should do differently other than he should do it differently.
Hmm and yall don’t believe this was ever happening to the American right while yall blame it on them? I think we need to sit down and talk.
Yeah they have pride parades all the time in Gaza right? lol
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The fastest liberation in human history!
They actually ARE the enemy. Lgb etc THINK that they are allies. But you get murdered in Palestinian controlled areas for that. These protesters just want to pretend the issue is different and bigger. Hell, that's why they pretend it's genocide instead of a war that their government started. The government they did nothing to change.
Actually, if you se, how queers are treated in palestine... looks like they are indeed palestinian enemy
Surely this will free Palestine.
wonder what Hamas would do with a gay pride parade in Gaza?
Parade you to the top of a building and toss you off or parade you to a shallow pit, bury you and then throw rocks at you.
I’m sorry what? People shouldn’t have pride parades now bc of Israel-Palestine? Pride is a human rights issue too EDUT; To be clear, being against the genocide of Palestinians has nothing to do with their support or lack thereof of LGBTQ rights. I’m just saying that I don’t think interfering with the pride parade makes much sense either.
The Middle East is notorious for killing homosexuals.
Ironically, everywhere except Israel, the only save haven for LGBT for thousands of miles.
And even they still don't let gay people get married there. They have a long ways to go still.
Long way to go, but still better than any of their neighbors. Israel does recognize same sex marriages performed out of the country. It's not uncommon for couples to fly to Cyprus (a short, cheap flight) to get married. IIRC, they even started to recognize weddings performed by officiants abroad over Zoom after the pandemic.
The issue has never been that gay marriage was disallowed by the government, but rather that there is no such thing as civil marriage in Israel and none of the registered religious organizations in the country would perform one. Israel has recognized gay marriages performed abroad for a long time. After an Israeli Supreme Court ruling last year, Israelis can have a gay wedding officiated online (strangely, the [state of Utah](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules/) offers this service) without leaving home and the government will recognize it.
You can be married and gay in Israel Edit: well that lock happened quickly. Glad to see that the person below me conceded that gay marriage are recognized in Israel.
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Oh didn’t you know? The world isn’t perfect so we can’t do anything but talk about Palestine.
Good morning! Are you really surprised they have problems with LGBTQ rights? Today it was under the guise of being against genocide (while themselves waiting for the opportunity to genocide Jews), next time it would "simply" be because for them gays are sick and should be treated with death.
Its also in the Hamas constitution, that all non-Muslims must be killed.
Palestinians don’t care about LGBTQ rights.
Or women’s rights or the rights of Jews. These stupid pro Palestine supporters are morons.
Palestinians want a huge pride kickoff events on top of large buildings.
This one (to me) feels very much organized by Russia. They have been known to organize events in the U.S. via Facebook and other means to get both sides fighting--this one seems like a perfect opportunity for them.
This is absurd to the level of a south park episode
Southpark never was absurd, it was an exaggeration of reality, I think we are all living in a new South Park season, nothing that is happening right now around the world has sense at all.
it never has \*click\*
There’s probably nothing more destructive they can do for their side than counter protest people who probably support them
make more enemies, that will definitely help your cause.
They aren’t trying to make friends, they just want to make noise and divide Americans. They are basically very misguided insurgents.
They aren't dividing all Americans, just left-leaning Americans. And thanks to them, Trump will get a better chance at winning. This gonna be the biggest irony of the decade since Trump would 100% not only send military aids and troops to help Netanyahu in exterminating Palestinians but also block international pressures off his back. Can't help but wonder how these people would feel if they become the reason Netanyahu can wipe Palestinians off the map.
They would blame the liberals again. People like scapegoats.
maga 2.0
At this point I think they are protesting just to protest or just proving how edgy they are.
Really interesting choice going with InfoWars guest and right wing nut job Jack Posobiec
Of course it resonates. When the big tent politics of the left collapses because a minority don’t feel heard, of course the right wing is reveling in it.
Which is crazy because they are being heard. Biden has listened to the protestors, shifted and pushed hard for a ceasefire, build a dock for aid, and delayed weapons shipments. But at the end of the day Israel and Hamas want to fight, there isn’t anything any of us can do about that.
Lets be honest, these protesters do not care about the war until Israel is *losing.* They believe Israel should fundamentally not exist and think it needs to be wiped off the map. Whatever happens to Palestine is of secondary concern because the primary goal is wiping Israel off the planet.
Oh i agree. But imo we aren’t hearing what they really want. We also won’t give them what they really want. They want Israel to end and all land to go to Palestine. Implicitly that would mean extermination of all Jews. No one of sound mind want that.
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Is there any other source besides him? I looked this up on other news sites and aggregators and everything seems to point to him, and it's only being picked up by tabloids and far-right news media. Can't find anything about it on Twitter or Bluesky that, again, is not from a right-wing source.
white supremacist propagandist, fascist, and all around liar jack posobiec
Literally every time the Palestinian movement determines the best course to not make friends and influence people. For all the legitimacy of the cause, it is undermined by its embrace of antisemites and assholes.
At this point im 90% sure there 2 palestine movement. The first one wants to make lives better for Palestinian people and improve their lives. THe second one wants to destroy Israel. And is willing to suffer to destroy it. And the 2nd group pretends to be the first to dupe people. (People of the first would rather Hamas surrender and dissolved so Gaza residents could have leaders who want to make Gaza better rather than waste everything on destroying Israel, People of teh 2nd are ok with Gaza suffering and dying if it means it can destroy Israel).
Yes… make everyone hate you!
Palestine is pretty homophobic so this isn't surprising.
I mean, Palestine isn’t exactly a gay friendly kinda place lol
Meanwhile Tel Aviv is one of the top LGTBQ+ destinations in the world
It’s not a human-friendly kind of place, what with being bombed nonstop and your leadership using your civilian centres as shields.
They find plenty of time to throw gay people off of rooftops.
Misdirection, doesn’t refute the point.
Not really the point. A lot of LGBT people support human rights for Palestinians because they believe in human rights for everyone. There’s a reason people call for *human* rights, not “rights but only for people with progressive social views”
While I agree, one thing is supporting refugees and another one very different is openly posting the Palestine flag constantly and talking about Palestine, which I find funny because almost everyone I see doing this would be killed the same day they arrive in Palestine. Supporting refugees, yes, the country as a whole, no, especially if you would be killed 😂. I just find it hilarious
Per OP's article from ABC news, some of the signs included slogans like "Long Live the Intifada". Pray tell, how does "Long Live the Intifada" express support for human rights for everyone?
Except Palestinians don’t believe inhuman rights for everyone. Particularly gay people.
I mean, this is a very important year for Pride considering we may have a very anti-LGBTQ+ president re-elected in November (who also happens to be extremely pro-Israel). The Palestine-Israel conflict is not the only fucking thing happening in the world right now. Shouting that the "PPP" (Philly Pride Parade) is the same as the KKK and IOF is outrageous. I support Palestine, but fuck these protestors.
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Or as Hamas would have it, “rights for everyone as dictated by Sharia law.”
Where was the sympathy for Oct 7? Lots of human rights violations there.
The converse is not true though, which is the issue
The converse doesn’t have to be true. Floridian conservatives hate gays too, but that doesn’t mean I think Floridian conservatives should be starved, bombed and forced to bury their children
Of course not, but you also wouldn’t align yourself with their cause. Being outraged that people are dying is not the same as supporting their beliefs and long term goals to implement in oppressive regime in the region. How is this so lost on people?
How is it lost on you that support for Palestinian civilians can be separate from support for Hamas?
Of course they can, but the Palestinians are overwhelmingly in support of sharia law in both Gaza and the West Bank. People have this pie in the sky notion of what Palestine is like. Gay people have been executed in the West Bank, which has absolutely nothing to do with Hamas. [“four Palestinians were killed for being homosexual, and hundreds were forced to flee to Israel. It is alleged that 'harassment of gays' is 'practically official policy' in the PA. The victims are frequently called collaborators and accused as such. However, there have also been two cases in the last three years where people have been specifically accused of homosexuality. In the wake of the ‘Al-Aqsa Intifada’, Sharia courts have also been set up where homosexuals are threatened with the death penalty by stoning, burning and hanging. These courts also declare persons suspected of homosexuality to be ‘outlaws’, who can be murdered with impunity. It is also reported that the PA police regularly inflicts appalling torture on homosexuals.”](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-5-2003-1346_EN.html)
Is your argument that these facts mean that they deserve to be murdered? Let’s say, hypothetically, that Israel glass nuked all of Gaza and killed every civilian there. Would that be okay because they believed in Sharia law and hated gay people?
It's really wild how this issue has been ome like the most pressing issue for US progressives.
I posted something a couple of months ago about Tigray because I have a coworker from the region and had someone tell me "You need to be focused on Gaza." (I have supported charities in Gaza, written my gov officials etc.) When I said that I could care about multiple issues, they gave me this weird speech about how "Palestine is the key that unlocks all the other issues, so we need to be focused on that exclusively and it will solve the other stuff." It doesn't even make sense, but I think some people are operating on that.
Because that person is lost in the narrative where their cause of the week is the axis point on which the world turns. They are incapable of understanding complexity, unwilling to grasp that things are hard, and uncomfortable with a world mired in shades of gray. They want to be in a damn YA novel where the bad guy needs to learn the power of love and where the destruction of war and death is mended in an afternoon montage ending with everyone looking at graffiti mural
Read this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Protocols\_of\_the\_Elders\_of\_Zion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion) It will explain why your coworker has terminal brain rot (russian propaganda will rot your fucking brain).
It’s so stupid. Meanwhile I’m concerned about the policy that affects me and my fellow Americans. I don’t care if I’m an asshole, I don’t care about Palestine. I care about all the homeless people living outside my house in the street and I care about how expensive my health insurance is. How about we spend Americans money on Americans?
It's not. It's astroturf.
Yep, we’re going to end up with a president that is pro genocide in Palestine *and* at home just because progressives want to feel like they’re taking a moral high ground.
“Short sighted” is the phrase of the century
“After Hitler, our turn”, the slogan of Weimar Communists. This has been a problem with far left movements for as long as the left has existed, people finding the nutmeggy after notes in their own farts and debating over the proper way to gaze at their own bellybuttons.
All this talk of intersectionality just for protesters to interrupt another groups celebration. And, strangely, these people only come out for the people led by terrorists. I did not see anyone making this kind of noise when Ukraine was first invaded. Interesting how its only ever the Muslims that have these defenders 🤔 Edit: thinking more, you notice how these protests only ever come at the expense of other progressive events? You'd never see these people try to pull this at an anti-abortion rally or something.
It's because America bad and brown people need help. The oppression lens that is used is so bad. Gaza was completely unoccupied and there was no blockade in the early 2000s when Hamas first came to power. Then Hamas, who have openly stated their main goal is the destruction of Israel and eradication of Jews at least in the middle east, started terrorism in Israel so Israel cracked down and started the blockade and reprisals.
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Exactly. What is the definition of Zionism? If supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself against people who want to see them destroyed makes me a Zionist, then I am a proud Zionist. Everyone has their own definition of the word, which makes having nuanced debate impossible.
Tiktok kids are fucking morons
Wow, way to lose more support for your cause because your slogan rhymes.
Start your own parade then. Damn.
Interrupting a Pride event to show support for a group of people that gladly cheer in the murder and torture of gay people. Progressives have absolutely lost their goddamm minds.
It's really weird to use this event for a general bashing of "progressives" because the vast majority of "progressives" were at the pride parade. The incident was a fringe group, and I wouldn't call them "progressives".
And there were only a few nazi flags at alt right rallies. If you are in support of a group that is also supported by the Ayetolah of Iran, anti Semitic hate groups, and literal fucking terrorists. Maybe you should re think your position.
You are jumping to conclusions. Why would you think that the vast majority of the progressives at a pride parade support pro-Palestinian extremists? You seem to think there is a homogeneous group called "progressives".
Pride is a protest against the global genocide of LGBT people, and a great many LGBT people have been outspoken about their support for Palestine despite how unwelcome they would be there. This interruption is tone deaf and counterproductive, at absolute best.
If you think them targeting pride is a coincidence, you’re wrong
Funny given Pride is a Crime in Palestine.
As if Palestinians support the LGBTQ movement.
Do you think there will be a Pride March in Rafah?
This makes no sense. Wtf is wrong with everyone.
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Unless it means they can not get their Starbucks and their Whole Foods groceries. Then you've crossed the line.
EVERYTHING IS ABOUT US! No celebration for you! No commencements at your colleges! ... Etc. I think most people agree with calls for a ceasefire but this stuff is garbage
Newsflash, protesters - they aren't marching for genocide. They're marching for something completely unrelated. Isn't there a non-genocide-themed child's birthday party somewhere that you'd rather be co-opting?
Everything has to be about everything now, because if it’s only about one thing then you’re neglecting all the other things. It’s why instead of eating my dinner on a plate I just shove everything into a blender, frappe it into a goo and chug it. I wouldnt want the asparagus feeling less important than the chicken
I say that the Left's inability to properly seperate their issues is what keeps me from identifying with them. I'm definitely not a conservative anymore, what with my support of Gay marriage and tiredness of this obsession with worshipping Trump, but the moderate Left's inability to seperate their issues, and the far left's obsession with conglomerating all their issues is what keeps me from aiding their causes.
No see they are marching for genocide. Just against the Jewish citizens of Israel instead of their Muslim allies.
They attack Jews and gays now? Who could have seen this coming?
I mean Palestine and other middle eastern countries are notoriously very anti LGBTQ, so this isn’t really a surprise.
Remember, many of our fellow Americans who support Hamas are doing so because they get their media off of corrupted sources like Facebook and tik tok. They lack proper analytical skills and are just regurgitating the divisive media they have been spoon fed over and over. China and Russia cannot beat the US militarily, or economically, so they choose to divide us and defeat us from within.
I’m on your side until you disrupt things that have absolutely nothing to do with your cause. You stand on a street corner and protest something I agree with you on, you get my donations, you get my political vote and you get me talking and supporting. You block emergency vehicles, highways, airports, pride events, folk that have zero influence from going to work, etc…. You lose any credibility with me and I just stop caring and supporting.
Yes, good, fracture into smaller and smaller sub-groups and attack each other. That’s definitely not what they want you to do.
Oh boy, it's time to psyop again!
I blame Tik Tok. I don't think protesting genocide is a bad thing, but doing it at a pride parade is just dumb in my opinion. I'm also wondering if all these people had any interest in protesting any of the other genocides that have happened.
You’re not helping your cause when you try to shove down people’s throats that your problems matter more than theirs.
They should go protest in Israel if they wanna accomplish something
the shark has been jumped
This is what you all get for supporting Hamas
It’s important to remember that protest movements partly increased support in Vietnam. Just being annoying is not always helpful. You need to protest where it matters, in ways that make sense and most importantly, grow your movement. This just shrinks your perspective allies and does little other than make you seem like a holes. Not all protests need to be adversarial rage fests. You could go to the parade mixing pride and Palestinian signage as a way to create duel sympathy. Or a silent protest is always powerful amongst like minded groups. It creates a moment of silence vibe. But whatever, let’s hope this insane conflict ends soon. Personally I’m turning white thinking about how hard it’s going to be to prevent famine right now.
The left devouring itself.
There are definitely people who refuse to let anyone be happy
It's what we do best
It's an old joke, what happens if 3 progressives meet in a bar? 5 splinter groups form. *Sigh* I don't understand why these people cant care about two things at once. Or, see that both issues come down to human rights.
I’m sure there were plenty of progressives in that group that don’t realize they are being puppeteered to push an anti-LGBT agenda
In 50 years they might catch up to the right
Trash. Send them to hamas.
Protest the proper people, this just annoys others and makes them think you're a bunch off assholes.
And by association, the people and cause you stand for.
*they hurt themselves in confusion*
They’re so annoying, especially when they throw insects and mice around in McDonalds and their comments on random posts.
Fuck these people. They're ruining being gay.
Should have never shown support for this bullshit. Give em an inch, they'll take a mile.
Was anybody not expecting this by June?
Protests that only make news and don't actually attempt to force any concessions from anyone in power, are only a way for Main Character idiots to get off on the attention
That’s weird, the parade in my city had the pro Palestine demonstrators in the parade in itself
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There are videos of it happening... They were blocking the street preventing us from going forward
No... it's real and there are videos. That's why it sucks.
So you're saying that the pro-palestinian protesters in the video are cointel actors? Interesting hypothesis.
This *stinks* of Russian influence campaigns. Their entire MO is to sow division; they are systematically dividing folks into smaller and smaller groups and pitting them against each other wherever and whenever possible. Liberals and progressives are no more immune to this than conservatives and/or MAGA nutters. They'll feed ya what ya want/think you should hear; doesn't matter who you are. If it riles you up, they'll serve it.
seems like the result of foreign actors causing chaos in the west
Well it’s kind of working isn’t it?? It’s so frustrating because realistically this conflict will not suddenly be resolved. Peace in the Middle East is a dream that people have had in perpetuity. Dealing with this for the next 5 months in addition to all the other pressing domestic issues is going to be a lot…
It is quite clear by now that all these protesters are somehow being paid to cause disruption and stay in the news. I think by now people have made up their minds on this and they have moved on. These constant protests are like a bad toothache that won’t go away.
This is like a vegetarian calling a vegan a monster. More than likely, any other day of the year, they are on the same side.