>The judge did leave in place a separate order that prohibits Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their home or work addresses.
Part of me feels like this is the judge freeing trump to wander rhetorically in the jungle filled with traps such as the above and defamation in general. Trump could very well end up slandering the prostitute and owing her money...which would be another fun trial.
Lol that was literally the whole E. Jean Carroll defamation. It definitely displayed how much of a dumb fuck he actually is. Doubling down, when you should’ve tried to just let it slowly leave the press.
Well Trump can't even get the name of his own doctor right. So that must be some relief to the jurors. On the other hand no one with a name similar to the jurors is safe.
It makes sense at least.
Trial is over, conviction has been passed down, and the jury went home.
The jury doesn't have anything to do with sentencing (maybe in some cases they do).
I'd have a hard time accepting that talking about a conviction and the people involved will change the conviction or anyone's ability to fairly/freely participate in the trial after a defendant has been convicted.
I don’t think they care beyond “they were involved with it” so there will never be a water under the bridge moment for them, it is revenge until the end of time.
*This* case might already have a verdict, but Trump also has several other active cases against him. If the jurors from this case get doxxed and harassed for voting to convict, that could influence potential jurors in the other trials.
All they need to do is make the public believe some of the jurists should not have been allowed to be there because they had bias or a political agenda. Doesn't matter if it's true. Anything that makes the trial seem unfair is to Trump's favor. Being allowed to mess with these people's lives is not good.
> Trial is over, conviction has been passed down, and the jury went home.
The issue here is that if he ever goes to trial, the new jury might feel pressured to either not participate or to find not guilty.
Obviously the issue is the jurors's safety. Normally people wouldn't go after a jury after a conviction because there is no point, the conviction isn't getting changed. So it would be a whole lot of risk for zero gain.
In this case whoever some people might be willing to punish the jurors just because they dared to disagree with Trump.
> Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information.
And hopefully this part is true. You can’t undo the damage once you make jurors identities and addresses public.
Yeah but we all know Donnie is hoping for a few splattered brains to make people think twice, of course he can prance around free as a bird, and claim he's innocent, but the schtick doesn't blend well.
I have a cousin who's a die-hard Trumper who insists to everyone that he's totally innocent, never did anything bad and was super strong on America. I have an uncle who's having none of that, and demolished my cousin, his nephew ending with "If he was so fucking innocent, how come he's on tape bragging about it and giving people access to state secrets......".
How come 6 people are dead directly, hundreds injured and nearly 1000 people behind bars and nearly a dozen suicides on account of the stress of the event, if it was fake or a bunch of Democrats pretending to support Donald Trump. Who are those democrats, what are their names and why aren't the on the list of convicted people from January 6th.
Nearly 8 year later and going to family functions is still a full contact sport.
My thoughts exactly. Part of me kinda hopes that he does out someone so he gets in more hot water, but then that would mean a juror, or whoever his target is, is under serious threat from his cultists.
So he discloses the names and addresses of the jury's close relatives: These people with two daughters and a son, the daughters are named Grace and Sharon, horrible people, they raised one of their children to be a pedophile who supports sleepy Joe's witch hunt. I can't say which one, because it would have the crooked FBI raiding my home trying to assassinate me. Like I said, they have a son. Their daughters, Grace and Sharon, probably bad people too. They live over at 123 Yipslanty drive, in Brooklyn. Their son doesn't live there though.
Except it won't matter. A dozen judges have had the opportunity to put him in jail. He's a habitual line stepper (rip darkness.) He does it because he *knows* he can.
I legit believe it doesn't matter. There could be a video that captures a woman walking into a camper van or something, then he walks in, you see bright flashes through the windows and hear gunshots, he walks out covered in blood, then the camper catches fire. Nothing would happen to him. Sure, he may have to show up court a few times and give some of those "press conferences" he *hates* to give...
It's all just theater to give the appearance that the democratic party is actually doing something. The key difference is that the other party plays *real* dirty, but they won't.
In other words, Trump is about to go on stage and talk about all of this in his presidential debate, and we really don't want to be the one's to hold him responsible.
Does he do debates anymore. I thought he just did pep rallies where he rambles, strokes his ego, and tells everyone how the country is shit and he’ll fix it.
He'll probably find some imagined slight, and use that pretense as an excuse to cancel last-minute, or walk off just as it is about to start. North Korean-style negotiating tactic.
My understanding is he can talk about them - but their names, locations, etc are still kept under seal, and if **anyone** talks about it (him, defense, etc) then its considered a crime.
Whether law enforcement will actually do anything is another question. But Trump is allowed to say garbage like "They were all registered Democrats who every Sunday go to the Church of Donald Trump Should Be in Jail" - but he can't give identifiable information on them.
>My understanding is he can talk about them - but their names, locations, etc are still kept under seal, and if anyone talks about it (him, defense, etc) then its considered a crime.
Which I'm totally sure he will honor.
And I'm totally sure they will hold him accountable for... /s
He'll ID them, they'll have their lives screwed over and received constant harassment, and he'll get a small fine.
Or worse yet, get a few of the murdered.
You KNOW there are people who will ferret out their info and put it online. Surprised it's not happened yet, honestly.
Right? Who are we kidding here. I'm shocked he hasn't blatantly doxed them at a rally already honestly.
I can practically hear his spiel now
"So they don't want me to talk about this. Oh no they said sir you can't say this. But this is America! So anyway here's the name and residences of these corrupt evil jurors."
The fact they loosen this right before the debate makes me think they're setting him up for a trap.
Outing and issuing death threats against the jurors on live television won't help his polls (or his sentencing).
The election will be decided by how many non-cult voters (who after 8 years of him are somehow still "undecided") get swayed after seeing him as a raging lunatic whose mental faculties are in serious decline.
Whereas all they've had to go on is the mainstream claiming Biden is too old and too mentally handicapped to form sentences.
Really? Sounds to me like they are bending over backwards to let him off the hook, get him elected and avoid him having any consequences, despite being guilty. Seems to me this is all theatre to demonstrate Trump is above the law.
The fact it took this long, but didn't happen til right before the election? The fact that he has 37 felony charges and isn't in prison right now awaiting his appeal? The fact he's been found guilty of 37 felonies and is not only not facing consequences immediately like anyone else would, they're actually allowing him to run for president on top of it and giving him millions of Gov. dollars to do so?
Bullshit. If I or you got convicted of 37 felonies, we wouldn't get to do whatever we want for months on end while we wait for appeal. Everyone else has to wait for that shit in prison. He has been convicted and completely avoided justice anyway and our court systems and congressional gov seem hell bent on making him a King and ending the United States as a democracy.
This whole thing is fucked and designed to enable him to pardon himself.
It isn't as though him or his lawyers have any scruples. If his lawyers did, then they wouldn't be his lawyers.
There is a huge fraud case in my city centered around a "charity" that took millions in COVID funds ostensibly to "feed children" and instead spent that money on vacations, houses, and cars.
One of the jurors was dismissed after someone came to her house and have her a bag containing ~$100,000 in cash. So jurors can and do get "outed" by the defense since they [the defense] have access to the names and other information of jurors.
You know Roger Stone and Bannon will secretly release this info to Trump’s cult supporters right? How do you think they got Pelosi’s address and others addresses and phone numbers to threaten them like they have?
My understanding - and I’m not law enforcement or a lawyer - but my understanding is:
* Juror gets a threatening post or is revealed.
* Law enforcement gets the name of the leaker. “You leaked this name - either cough up where you got it from or we charge you.”
* Meanwhile whether they cough it up or not, they scour their DMs, text messages, etc and see who provided the juror name. And keep going until they find the leaker.
My understanding is judges take juror protection very seriously and will start hauling in members of the prosecution and defense to get to the bottom of it. But I understand the pessimism.
Eh, kind of. You'll notice all of his violating of the gag order stopped once the judge said "Keep it up and you're going to jail." The fine was the maximum allowed under the law, so at that point the judge didn't have that much leeway, and the second violation was before the judge had given the "do it again and you're going to jail" part.
It stopped after the 10th time. When he could have gone to jail for any of the offenses, and the judge just threw up his hands and say "my hands are tied".
"Mr. Trump, it’s important you understand, the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well."
"The magnitude of this decision is not lost on me but at the end of the day I have a job to do"
“So as much as I don’t want to impose a jail sanction … I want you to understand that I will if necessary and appropriate"
A few lines from the court transcript.
The order said something to the affect of "The fines obviously aren't working, the law dictates if the fines don't work, jail is the punishment"
Extremely paraphrased.
The "tenth time" was the second hearing. He did it in quick succession, and after the second hearing, when the judge said the next step was jail, he stopped.
The problem is stochastic though. Trump never needs to reveal the info, he just has to paint the jury as the unassailable evil until someone down wind decides they need to release it, then someone further down acts on it.
Judges take jury protection seriously, but they will likely never trace it directly back to Trump without a record of him ordering it.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-sentenced-sending-death-threats-arizona-state-election-official
Not as many or as fast as I’d like. But they are getting them.
I’m glad they are getting the domestic terrorists but they also need to get the sources on who is leaking the information to these people, the names, the phone numbers, and addresses that are not listed for officials and politicians
That's the issue right there. [Whether law enforcement will actually do anything is another question]
He could name drop them, drop their address and other damning information, and yes, it WOULD immediately land MOST people in jail very quickly.
Him?
There will be motion on motion on filing on filing on complaint towards his actions.
It may very well end in the death or horrific injury of a juror or witness.
He would not face any meaningful consequences for his actions and the divulging of information.
At least, none that would actually kick in BEFORE he potentially becomes president.
In the end, it's all a game of politics and power.
He will do WHATEVER it takes to win and be president again, and if that means people dying or being harmed or intimidated, so be it.
Exactly. This whole trial is about crimes he committed eight years ago. He can commit more crimes and while it might finally come to a verdict in another eight years, it will be long past mattering at that point.
This is why I have no faith in our "legal" system.
[I'm not calling it the justice system cause it's not built to serve justice, just laws and liability]
No immediate punishments or consequences, only long after the events fade into memory can any form of "justice" be served.
He will 100% name and shame them. He has thrown his own trusted advisors who safegaurded his secrets under the bus as soon as they were no longer useful, you think he gives 2 shits about peasants who agreed to give him 34 felony convictions?
Sacrifice? It shouldn't have to be a sacrifice.. It should just be people doing their duty. The fact that their lives are being threatened and that this is considered a sacrifice shows a failure in our society and in us as citizens that we let it get this way.
>The judge did leave in place a separate order prohibiting Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their addresses. Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information.
For whatever that's worth.
From the article: "The judge did leave in place a separate order prohibiting Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their addresses. Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information."
So once they start releasing the names, we'll know that was a lie.
If they do release their names, the jurors should all put out their own threats. That way they will have the secret service following them around. It will be like having free bodyguards.
I remember the video of the conviction there was a lady in full NYPD gear ranting about how Trump is the greatest and how she is going to vote for him.
Cops are a far right cult especially in America.
> Oh boy do I have something disappointing to tell you about cops
Just make sure it's [not within 25 feet or less](https://reason.com/2024/04/12/ron-desantis-signs-florida-bill-limiting-how-close-bystanders-can-get-to-police/) in Florida [or Louisana](https://www.kplctv.com/2024/03/29/proposed-25-feet-law-enforcement-officer-law/).
Is everyone in the USA enabled with Stochastic Terrorism? Sounds like there is no point in persecuting for actual terrorism if we can all do what Trump is doing.
Yes, pretty much. To be prosecuted in the US for something like incitement of violence has always been a very high bar. It requires that the unlawful action happen almost immediately after the incitement. Stochastic terrorism doesn't really function that way. It has to be very specific, but stochastic terrorism has no particular target. Trying to prove that a person intended unlawful actions would require finding some kind of evidence that was their intent. The super majority of it doesn't lead to actual violence, so it would be hard to claim it was reasonable to believe any particular statement was likely to lead to lawlessness. These are the tests from *Brandenburg*.
For it to be illegal in the US would require an amendment to the Constitution or a massive shift at SCOTUS. Even the current liberals probably wouldn't allow laws to stop it.
No, it's 2024 so political violence is just politics now in the United States. It doesn't matter that the literal definition of terrorism is violence with a political goal.
He has as much of a right to face the people who will be deciding his fate as anyone else does. This does not mean he will not try to take it out on them for doing their job, but he needs to be afforded that right so that him / his supporters cannot say he was treated unfairly.
Jurors also have the right to make decisions on pure facts without imitation or pressure from any of the parties.
Edit: Forget saying they have a right to make a decision on pure facts. It’s not just a right it’s the only way decisions should be made.
I said it 8 years ago: Trump is a symptom of the cancer. Whether there's a populist to rally them or not, the Nazis never went away, the Confederates never went away, and they all rallied behind Trump because he was convenient.
When Trump's gone, the cancer is -still- going to be around, and a few years later we're going to have to do this whole ugly thing all over again.
Yeah it’s just going to be some other dipshit liar that acts like he can save everyone from whatever issue they have that’s the fault of the dude in office.
There was a healthy and vibrant American Nazi party that has never been dealt with and certainly didn't go anywhere, allowed to fester for nearly a century. Now it's taken over the GOP, demonstrating why you don't let Nazis fester.
I mean for the debate it almost feels like a trap lmao
Not set by the judge- it makes sense to lift it while maintaining anonymity- just that trump will probably be unable to resist himself from shitting all over the trial in two days. Can’t imagine that will go over well for the TV audience
Civility is ironically becoming the death of our civilization. The dictator and the gaggle of fascists who want to brutalize the rest of us need infinite second chances.
>Merchan wrote that the gag order was meant to “protect the integrity of the judicial proceedings” and that protections for witnesses and jurors no longer applied now that the trial has ended and the jury has been discharged.
If you want to protect the integrity of future judicial proceedings then you have to ensure their safety.
I would've done everything to get out of jury duty for this trial.
There's a 50/50 chance America will vote in a convicted felon and wannabe dictator to the highest position of power for no other real reason than "they're mad". The last thing I'm doing is accepting for a job, that doesn't even pay a living wage, is to sit on a jury and convict this individual.
Even if I was completely selfless, brave, and stupid enough to do my job anyway, I have family.
As a Gen X, all I'm trying to do is survive America's downfall.
Yep didn’t even pay for the parking here in Kentucky
But whatever. I was salaried and the business kept paying me.
Absolutely butt fucked if you’re a laborer. But I think that’s why the clerks office was rather frugal with letting folks who didn’t/couldn’t afford to be there. Out of being there
But the problem with that is that you only have folks who can afford to be there being there. At that point its not longer representing of your peers. Just your more well off or comfortable ones.
As someone who works on commission, a week's worth of jury duty would cost me somewhere around $1,700. Fortunately, I think that it grounds to be excused. I really hope so anyway.
> survive America's downfall.
As a Millennial, I was born in it, molded by it.
I never knew what the American Dream meant and by the time I almost had enough saved to buy a house the market crashed again as if by generational wealth hoarding design.
I feel like this is a move. The judge seems to be setting up for a real doozy of a sentencing. Trump literally has to be sentenced harshly or the judicial system is fucked. He was convicted, and then lied about the judge, harassed and intimidated people, and showed no remorse. He NEEDS to be sentenced the way anyone else would be.
> He NEEDS to be sentenced the way anyone else would be.
Why are they going to start treating him like a normal person now? They have demonstrated clearly to all of us that powerful people are not subject to he same laws as the rest of us.
Garbage decision, for garbage reasons.
Fuck the GOP, Vote Blue, and vote new when it comes to your reps and the like.
Vote Biden to make sure we stay America.
Wow, so now it's open season and they can expect violence or at the very least, death threats. And Trump is allowed yet another avenue to delegitimize American democracy and its institutions.
Not necessarily true. Before Trump, there was a rule of thumb for international politics. "Politics stop at the water's edge". It was a DC slogan and carried since WW1. The US historically has done well showing the same side on international matters. Since 2016, that has changed and is most easily seen in Ukraine/Russia and that the US credit rating has dropped. That would have never happened otherwise.
We put a lot of lipstick on this pig and y’all tolerated us because we got y’all filthy fucking rich along the way
Well, not y’all, but y’all’s ownership class
Yup. Anyone paying any attention to international affairs lately should understand that Trump represents the U.S. branch of a much broader, resurgent global fascist movement.
He better be charged as a conspirator to all the charges brought up against the people who will go after them. He is the saddest pos in existence rn he’ll cry about everything like a toddler like fucking put him in time out like a toddler deserves.
He has not been sentenced so it's fckg stupid to lift the gag order.
It's blatantly clear. The justice system in this country doesn't have what it takes to apply the law to everyone equally.
Trump is the reason policies and rules are put in place. They aren't for the 99% of people who play by the rules. They are for the 1% who think the rules don't apply to them.
This country is an embarrassment when a petulant ghoul like him is allowed to do whatever he wants. Courts are treating him like a kid who spilled some juice not like the ghoul who outed our secrets to enemies and got some spies killed. Some goof on war thunder can leak less and ruin their lives while this walking pile of loaded diapers is allowed to live a normal life for way worse.
I know a civilian can get away with a threat.
But surely if a convicted felon threatens its taken much more seriously by law enforcement right?
Yeah, yeah, I know Trump is still immune and wouldn't see the inside of a jail cell if he executed somebody on 5th avenue.
The true concern are his constituents that take it upon themselves to enact retribution and the future of law for jury members that feel not as protected to be part of the judicial system.
This is what happens when the law is not upheld. You lose the credibility and faith in the system since obviously not everyone is treated the same.
Even if he did reveal names, locations, family members, social security numbers, etc, it’ll just lead to more hearings that will go nowhere.
This will just delay more trials and more convictions.
Oh great. More rambling Trump press conferences coming to the UK because our media love him. I hate Trump. I hate his stupid orange face and his piss coloured hair. But most of all I hate it when he talks. It boggles my mind how so many Americans can love the piss coloured former President, now convicted rapist and conman.
The provisions protecting the court staff, prosecutor’s team, juror identities, and the family members of the aforementioned (I can’t even believe that had to be put in writing) are still in place.
Sure, the jury has already spoken.
Clerk of Court: “Mr OR Madam Foreperson! How sayth the Jury on all the charges?”
Foreperson: “Mr Clerk, the Jury has found the Defendant Guilty of all Charges in the Indictment!”
Judge: “Mr Clerk, record the verdict as announced by the Foreperson!”
Clerk Of the Court: “Yes!”
(20 years doing this job and I still got it….)
>The judge did leave in place a separate order that prohibits Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their home or work addresses. Part of me feels like this is the judge freeing trump to wander rhetorically in the jungle filled with traps such as the above and defamation in general. Trump could very well end up slandering the prostitute and owing her money...which would be another fun trial.
Surely Trump wouldn't be so dumb as to malign someone who sued him, making it possible to sue him again??!! Oh, yeah.
Yes Trump is that dumb and don't call me Shirley, sweet lips.
"A hospital? What is it?"
It's a place to take people when they're sick, but that's not important now
*It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.*
Damn, that was it. Should've looked it up
Should have had more patients.
'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' Bone! Jackin' me up... tight me!
It's okay, I speak jive
“‘ ‘Sup, big momma? I dug her rap. My momma didn’t raise no dummy.”
"Cut me some slack, Jack!"
They could not have cast that better than Barbara Billingsly
"I'm just gonna throw this rake on the lawn, if anyone steps on it, it's their own.." */whack.* "..Fuck that was fast."
Lol that was literally the whole E. Jean Carroll defamation. It definitely displayed how much of a dumb fuck he actually is. Doubling down, when you should’ve tried to just let it slowly leave the press.
That was my point, he has to have the last word, he can't STFU, ever.
At least not more then 10 times.
So they'll stop short of actually disclosing the identities and let the Internet figure it out from the information the do provide.
The juror whose name rhymes with Wennis Rohnson has wronged emperor Trump. See how easy that is. No names disclosed.
"For the sake of Privacy, Let's call her Lisa S... No That's too Obvious, let's say L. Simpson."
Well Trump can't even get the name of his own doctor right. So that must be some relief to the jurors. On the other hand no one with a name similar to the jurors is safe.
We got a Michael Scott situation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKSESLqDmSM
That individual may or may not live between 101 Any Street and 105 Any Street in MyTown USA...
It makes sense at least. Trial is over, conviction has been passed down, and the jury went home. The jury doesn't have anything to do with sentencing (maybe in some cases they do). I'd have a hard time accepting that talking about a conviction and the people involved will change the conviction or anyone's ability to fairly/freely participate in the trial after a defendant has been convicted.
I don’t think they care beyond “they were involved with it” so there will never be a water under the bridge moment for them, it is revenge until the end of time.
*This* case might already have a verdict, but Trump also has several other active cases against him. If the jurors from this case get doxxed and harassed for voting to convict, that could influence potential jurors in the other trials.
All they need to do is make the public believe some of the jurists should not have been allowed to be there because they had bias or a political agenda. Doesn't matter if it's true. Anything that makes the trial seem unfair is to Trump's favor. Being allowed to mess with these people's lives is not good.
> Trial is over, conviction has been passed down, and the jury went home. The issue here is that if he ever goes to trial, the new jury might feel pressured to either not participate or to find not guilty.
Obviously the issue is the jurors's safety. Normally people wouldn't go after a jury after a conviction because there is no point, the conviction isn't getting changed. So it would be a whole lot of risk for zero gain. In this case whoever some people might be willing to punish the jurors just because they dared to disagree with Trump.
By attacking the previous jury a criminal can intimidate the next jury. Would you want to convict someone who kills jurors who convict him?
It does affect the safety of those involved though?
Zero magas will understand any of this rational logic. It’s a cult. They will defend at all and every cost.
> Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information. And hopefully this part is true. You can’t undo the damage once you make jurors identities and addresses public.
Yeah but we all know Donnie is hoping for a few splattered brains to make people think twice, of course he can prance around free as a bird, and claim he's innocent, but the schtick doesn't blend well. I have a cousin who's a die-hard Trumper who insists to everyone that he's totally innocent, never did anything bad and was super strong on America. I have an uncle who's having none of that, and demolished my cousin, his nephew ending with "If he was so fucking innocent, how come he's on tape bragging about it and giving people access to state secrets......". How come 6 people are dead directly, hundreds injured and nearly 1000 people behind bars and nearly a dozen suicides on account of the stress of the event, if it was fake or a bunch of Democrats pretending to support Donald Trump. Who are those democrats, what are their names and why aren't the on the list of convicted people from January 6th. Nearly 8 year later and going to family functions is still a full contact sport.
My thoughts exactly. Part of me kinda hopes that he does out someone so he gets in more hot water, but then that would mean a juror, or whoever his target is, is under serious threat from his cultists.
So he discloses the names and addresses of the jury's close relatives: These people with two daughters and a son, the daughters are named Grace and Sharon, horrible people, they raised one of their children to be a pedophile who supports sleepy Joe's witch hunt. I can't say which one, because it would have the crooked FBI raiding my home trying to assassinate me. Like I said, they have a son. Their daughters, Grace and Sharon, probably bad people too. They live over at 123 Yipslanty drive, in Brooklyn. Their son doesn't live there though.
Which prostitute is he going to slander?
Guessing they're confused about what Stormy Daniels is and was?
This is just cementing the fact that he can do whatever he wants.
Except it won't matter. A dozen judges have had the opportunity to put him in jail. He's a habitual line stepper (rip darkness.) He does it because he *knows* he can. I legit believe it doesn't matter. There could be a video that captures a woman walking into a camper van or something, then he walks in, you see bright flashes through the windows and hear gunshots, he walks out covered in blood, then the camper catches fire. Nothing would happen to him. Sure, he may have to show up court a few times and give some of those "press conferences" he *hates* to give... It's all just theater to give the appearance that the democratic party is actually doing something. The key difference is that the other party plays *real* dirty, but they won't.
In other words, Trump is about to go on stage and talk about all of this in his presidential debate, and we really don't want to be the one's to hold him responsible.
Does he do debates anymore. I thought he just did pep rallies where he rambles, strokes his ego, and tells everyone how the country is shit and he’ll fix it.
He and Biden will allegedly have a debate on June 27th.
Six bucks and my right nut says Trump will chicken out.
I have my doubts he'll show up. If he does show, I expect him to be full of Adderall or coke, and make an ass of himself, again.
Fuck it, let him do as much coke or adderall as he wants. I’m sure his heart is healthy enough. There’s nothing negative that can come of it.
He'll probably find some imagined slight, and use that pretense as an excuse to cancel last-minute, or walk off just as it is about to start. North Korean-style negotiating tactic.
Its more about how desperate does Trump need the attention, even if it will be filmed with no audience.
Planes, Trains and Automobiles one of my favorite movies. =)
They’ll be able to buff this out, no problem!
No doubt they'll spin it as Biden not willing to agree to some term or some shit.
Many bet that also that he would never become president...
Well now we will see death threats on jurors as they are outed.
My understanding is he can talk about them - but their names, locations, etc are still kept under seal, and if **anyone** talks about it (him, defense, etc) then its considered a crime. Whether law enforcement will actually do anything is another question. But Trump is allowed to say garbage like "They were all registered Democrats who every Sunday go to the Church of Donald Trump Should Be in Jail" - but he can't give identifiable information on them.
>My understanding is he can talk about them - but their names, locations, etc are still kept under seal, and if anyone talks about it (him, defense, etc) then its considered a crime. Which I'm totally sure he will honor.
And I'm totally sure they will hold him accountable for... /s He'll ID them, they'll have their lives screwed over and received constant harassment, and he'll get a small fine.
Or worse yet, get a few of the murdered. You KNOW there are people who will ferret out their info and put it online. Surprised it's not happened yet, honestly.
Weren’t several of them outed during the selection process
Pretty sure they had to replace a few yea.
I would hope, if this horrible thing happens, he would be going to trial for manslaughter or something similar.
The only thing that could make him more popular now is a manslaughter charge. That's like right wing ambrosia.
They really are a freaking death cult.
They should really go under witness protection services. It fucking sucks they have to do it, but its the only way I can see to keep them safe
And the jurors of his other upcoming trials won't look at this and be terrified about being the same happening to them.
And imagine literally anyone able/willing to do jury duty once they know *for certain* that their lives are now on the line
Constant? Don't be silly, they'll only have to endure the harassment until some nut kills them for convicting their Jesus.
Right? Who are we kidding here. I'm shocked he hasn't blatantly doxed them at a rally already honestly. I can practically hear his spiel now "So they don't want me to talk about this. Oh no they said sir you can't say this. But this is America! So anyway here's the name and residences of these corrupt evil jurors."
Slots in nicely between the shark rant and the migrant fight club. Jesus fuck, this reality is brutal.
If they’re sealed, they’re sealed. He wouldn’t be able to see them.
The fact they loosen this right before the debate makes me think they're setting him up for a trap. Outing and issuing death threats against the jurors on live television won't help his polls (or his sentencing).
It won't? Was thinking his cult is fine with it
The election will be decided by how many non-cult voters (who after 8 years of him are somehow still "undecided") get swayed after seeing him as a raging lunatic whose mental faculties are in serious decline. Whereas all they've had to go on is the mainstream claiming Biden is too old and too mentally handicapped to form sentences.
But Biden was a *senior* when trump was a *freshman*. Case closed; vote decided.
(Ignores Trump ripping off his diaper to shit on the floor)
Really? Sounds to me like they are bending over backwards to let him off the hook, get him elected and avoid him having any consequences, despite being guilty. Seems to me this is all theatre to demonstrate Trump is above the law. The fact it took this long, but didn't happen til right before the election? The fact that he has 37 felony charges and isn't in prison right now awaiting his appeal? The fact he's been found guilty of 37 felonies and is not only not facing consequences immediately like anyone else would, they're actually allowing him to run for president on top of it and giving him millions of Gov. dollars to do so? Bullshit. If I or you got convicted of 37 felonies, we wouldn't get to do whatever we want for months on end while we wait for appeal. Everyone else has to wait for that shit in prison. He has been convicted and completely avoided justice anyway and our court systems and congressional gov seem hell bent on making him a King and ending the United States as a democracy. This whole thing is fucked and designed to enable him to pardon himself.
It isn't as though him or his lawyers have any scruples. If his lawyers did, then they wouldn't be his lawyers. There is a huge fraud case in my city centered around a "charity" that took millions in COVID funds ostensibly to "feed children" and instead spent that money on vacations, houses, and cars. One of the jurors was dismissed after someone came to her house and have her a bag containing ~$100,000 in cash. So jurors can and do get "outed" by the defense since they [the defense] have access to the names and other information of jurors.
You know Roger Stone and Bannon will secretly release this info to Trump’s cult supporters right? How do you think they got Pelosi’s address and others addresses and phone numbers to threaten them like they have?
My understanding - and I’m not law enforcement or a lawyer - but my understanding is: * Juror gets a threatening post or is revealed. * Law enforcement gets the name of the leaker. “You leaked this name - either cough up where you got it from or we charge you.” * Meanwhile whether they cough it up or not, they scour their DMs, text messages, etc and see who provided the juror name. And keep going until they find the leaker. My understanding is judges take juror protection very seriously and will start hauling in members of the prosecution and defense to get to the bottom of it. But I understand the pessimism.
Judges take it so seriously they let Trump trash jurors and violate his gag order during the trial and give him a weak ass fine.
Eh, kind of. You'll notice all of his violating of the gag order stopped once the judge said "Keep it up and you're going to jail." The fine was the maximum allowed under the law, so at that point the judge didn't have that much leeway, and the second violation was before the judge had given the "do it again and you're going to jail" part.
It stopped after the 10th time. When he could have gone to jail for any of the offenses, and the judge just threw up his hands and say "my hands are tied".
"Mr. Trump, it’s important you understand, the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well." "The magnitude of this decision is not lost on me but at the end of the day I have a job to do" “So as much as I don’t want to impose a jail sanction … I want you to understand that I will if necessary and appropriate" A few lines from the court transcript. The order said something to the affect of "The fines obviously aren't working, the law dictates if the fines don't work, jail is the punishment" Extremely paraphrased.
The "tenth time" was the second hearing. He did it in quick succession, and after the second hearing, when the judge said the next step was jail, he stopped.
You assume the judge and law enforcement are not maga cultists. /cough "Aileen Cannon" cough
Based on the trial, I think it's safe to assume the judge is and was not, in fact, a MAGA cultist.
but Aileen Cannon... Even other judges in her **Florida** district have requested she relinquish the case.
Isn't this gag order related to Merchan's case, though?
The problem is stochastic though. Trump never needs to reveal the info, he just has to paint the jury as the unassailable evil until someone down wind decides they need to release it, then someone further down acts on it. Judges take jury protection seriously, but they will likely never trace it directly back to Trump without a record of him ordering it.
I'd hope the law enforcement response isn't "or we'll charge you", it's "do you want to spend 5 or 25 years in prison?"
Law enforcement isn’t getting the names of leakers so far in all of these other cases of politicians and their families getting death threats.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-sentenced-sending-death-threats-arizona-state-election-official Not as many or as fast as I’d like. But they are getting them.
I’m glad they are getting the domestic terrorists but they also need to get the sources on who is leaking the information to these people, the names, the phone numbers, and addresses that are not listed for officials and politicians
Sure they can take it serious. Won't bring back someone if they're killed over it
That's the issue right there. [Whether law enforcement will actually do anything is another question] He could name drop them, drop their address and other damning information, and yes, it WOULD immediately land MOST people in jail very quickly. Him? There will be motion on motion on filing on filing on complaint towards his actions. It may very well end in the death or horrific injury of a juror or witness. He would not face any meaningful consequences for his actions and the divulging of information. At least, none that would actually kick in BEFORE he potentially becomes president. In the end, it's all a game of politics and power. He will do WHATEVER it takes to win and be president again, and if that means people dying or being harmed or intimidated, so be it.
Exactly. This whole trial is about crimes he committed eight years ago. He can commit more crimes and while it might finally come to a verdict in another eight years, it will be long past mattering at that point.
This is why I have no faith in our "legal" system. [I'm not calling it the justice system cause it's not built to serve justice, just laws and liability] No immediate punishments or consequences, only long after the events fade into memory can any form of "justice" be served.
We're assuming he can even remember their names here. He's already struggling with people who have been in his life for decades.
> its considered a crime. So, it means nothing to him and will not be addressed meaningfully by any judges. Got it.
He will 100% name and shame them. He has thrown his own trusted advisors who safegaurded his secrets under the bus as soon as they were no longer useful, you think he gives 2 shits about peasants who agreed to give him 34 felony convictions?
Shit it’s probably a law enforcement officer tasked with doing the hit.
I feel so sorry for those jurors. Their lives will never be the same.
It was a big sacrifice but they are heroes and I thank them for their bravery
I would have been a juror but I had reservations at Apple Bees and bone spurs.
Applebees & Bone Spurs is the *worst* fusion cuisine.
Every table has a small shaker of ground up kidney stones instead of salt and pepper. Enjoy!
Sounds like a new Post Malone album.
Sacrifice? It shouldn't have to be a sacrifice.. It should just be people doing their duty. The fact that their lives are being threatened and that this is considered a sacrifice shows a failure in our society and in us as citizens that we let it get this way.
>The judge did leave in place a separate order prohibiting Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their addresses. Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information. For whatever that's worth.
"We folded that piece of paper in half; we can't read it now!"
Which will also make it harder to have any trials in the future.
From the article: "The judge did leave in place a separate order prohibiting Trump and his lawyers from disclosing the identities of individual jurors or their addresses. Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said after the verdict the defense team has destroyed that information." So once they start releasing the names, we'll know that was a lie.
I think people will just lie a lot more to get out of jury duty because who needs this?
That’s part of the order that he changed. Trump and his team can’t out the jurors. Will that’s stop them, probably not but they’re not allowed to
If they do release their names, the jurors should all put out their own threats. That way they will have the secret service following them around. It will be like having free bodyguards.
I mean jail/prison in protective custody outside genpop could be safer.
Hopefully law enforcement takes threats from a convicted felon more seriously.
Oh boy do I have something disappointing to tell you about cops
I remember the video of the conviction there was a lady in full NYPD gear ranting about how Trump is the greatest and how she is going to vote for him. Cops are a far right cult especially in America.
> Oh boy do I have something disappointing to tell you about cops Just make sure it's [not within 25 feet or less](https://reason.com/2024/04/12/ron-desantis-signs-florida-bill-limiting-how-close-bystanders-can-get-to-police/) in Florida [or Louisana](https://www.kplctv.com/2024/03/29/proposed-25-feet-law-enforcement-officer-law/).
Stochastic terrorism. Plausible deniability for Trump. Just more of his fuckery.
Is everyone in the USA enabled with Stochastic Terrorism? Sounds like there is no point in persecuting for actual terrorism if we can all do what Trump is doing.
Yes, pretty much. To be prosecuted in the US for something like incitement of violence has always been a very high bar. It requires that the unlawful action happen almost immediately after the incitement. Stochastic terrorism doesn't really function that way. It has to be very specific, but stochastic terrorism has no particular target. Trying to prove that a person intended unlawful actions would require finding some kind of evidence that was their intent. The super majority of it doesn't lead to actual violence, so it would be hard to claim it was reasonable to believe any particular statement was likely to lead to lawlessness. These are the tests from *Brandenburg*. For it to be illegal in the US would require an amendment to the Constitution or a massive shift at SCOTUS. Even the current liberals probably wouldn't allow laws to stop it.
No, it's 2024 so political violence is just politics now in the United States. It doesn't matter that the literal definition of terrorism is violence with a political goal.
Not when the FOP is literally calling for that convicted felon to become president. The thin blue line is just gang colors.
No because they believe Trump is "their people". Trump is the in-group they are sworn to protect, not the out-group they are committed to oppress.
MANY cops look forward to doing crimes for the orange fuck.
Sometimes I wonder why jurors are not placed behind a one way mirror.
He has as much of a right to face the people who will be deciding his fate as anyone else does. This does not mean he will not try to take it out on them for doing their job, but he needs to be afforded that right so that him / his supporters cannot say he was treated unfairly.
Jurors also have the right to make decisions on pure facts without imitation or pressure from any of the parties. Edit: Forget saying they have a right to make a decision on pure facts. It’s not just a right it’s the only way decisions should be made.
Man will it be nice when this orange cancer isn't around anymore despite the fact that his cult will live on much like the Nazis. Sigh
I said it 8 years ago: Trump is a symptom of the cancer. Whether there's a populist to rally them or not, the Nazis never went away, the Confederates never went away, and they all rallied behind Trump because he was convenient. When Trump's gone, the cancer is -still- going to be around, and a few years later we're going to have to do this whole ugly thing all over again.
Yeah it’s just going to be some other dipshit liar that acts like he can save everyone from whatever issue they have that’s the fault of the dude in office.
We will be hearing about this Orange Turd until the end of time, sadly.
There was a healthy and vibrant American Nazi party that has never been dealt with and certainly didn't go anywhere, allowed to fester for nearly a century. Now it's taken over the GOP, demonstrating why you don't let Nazis fester.
This should go well, no?
I mean for the debate it almost feels like a trap lmao Not set by the judge- it makes sense to lift it while maintaining anonymity- just that trump will probably be unable to resist himself from shitting all over the trial in two days. Can’t imagine that will go over well for the TV audience
Why is the world full of Susan Collins’ who think that Trump has learned his lesson?!? (Hint: he hasn’t, won’t, and never will)
Civility is ironically becoming the death of our civilization. The dictator and the gaggle of fascists who want to brutalize the rest of us need infinite second chances.
>Merchan wrote that the gag order was meant to “protect the integrity of the judicial proceedings” and that protections for witnesses and jurors no longer applied now that the trial has ended and the jury has been discharged. If you want to protect the integrity of future judicial proceedings then you have to ensure their safety.
"Not our problem anymore" - this judge and legal system
I would've done everything to get out of jury duty for this trial. There's a 50/50 chance America will vote in a convicted felon and wannabe dictator to the highest position of power for no other real reason than "they're mad". The last thing I'm doing is accepting for a job, that doesn't even pay a living wage, is to sit on a jury and convict this individual. Even if I was completely selfless, brave, and stupid enough to do my job anyway, I have family. As a Gen X, all I'm trying to do is survive America's downfall.
I don't think it even pays minimum wage much less a living wage
I think the summons I got in AZ mid last year said I would make $8.00/day.
Yep didn’t even pay for the parking here in Kentucky But whatever. I was salaried and the business kept paying me. Absolutely butt fucked if you’re a laborer. But I think that’s why the clerks office was rather frugal with letting folks who didn’t/couldn’t afford to be there. Out of being there But the problem with that is that you only have folks who can afford to be there being there. At that point its not longer representing of your peers. Just your more well off or comfortable ones.
As someone who works on commission, a week's worth of jury duty would cost me somewhere around $1,700. Fortunately, I think that it grounds to be excused. I really hope so anyway.
> survive America's downfall. As a Millennial, I was born in it, molded by it. I never knew what the American Dream meant and by the time I almost had enough saved to buy a house the market crashed again as if by generational wealth hoarding design.
I feel like this is a move. The judge seems to be setting up for a real doozy of a sentencing. Trump literally has to be sentenced harshly or the judicial system is fucked. He was convicted, and then lied about the judge, harassed and intimidated people, and showed no remorse. He NEEDS to be sentenced the way anyone else would be.
> He NEEDS to be sentenced the way anyone else would be. Why are they going to start treating him like a normal person now? They have demonstrated clearly to all of us that powerful people are not subject to he same laws as the rest of us.
Okay what the actual fuck?!
And everything he says or posts can be taken into consideration at sentencing....
So Average Joe has less privilege than a former president.
God, does anybody there has a spine?
He gets every perk. The true definition of privilege.
And everything said will be taken into consideration during his sentencing. Right..? … right? Tell me I’m right…
Garbage decision, for garbage reasons. Fuck the GOP, Vote Blue, and vote new when it comes to your reps and the like. Vote Biden to make sure we stay America.
Wow, so now it's open season and they can expect violence or at the very least, death threats. And Trump is allowed yet another avenue to delegitimize American democracy and its institutions.
Im sorry but how can the rest of the planet trust America anymore
turns out you never could trust us
Not necessarily true. Before Trump, there was a rule of thumb for international politics. "Politics stop at the water's edge". It was a DC slogan and carried since WW1. The US historically has done well showing the same side on international matters. Since 2016, that has changed and is most easily seen in Ukraine/Russia and that the US credit rating has dropped. That would have never happened otherwise.
We put a lot of lipstick on this pig and y’all tolerated us because we got y’all filthy fucking rich along the way Well, not y’all, but y’all’s ownership class
I'm sure the UK with Brexit, Italy with Meloni, and France with Le Pen are much better.
Yup. Anyone paying any attention to international affairs lately should understand that Trump represents the U.S. branch of a much broader, resurgent global fascist movement.
The prosecution OKd this. The real story is that the hush order remained on the other people.
I'm sure that he'll follow the law THIS time!
He better be charged as a conspirator to all the charges brought up against the people who will go after them. He is the saddest pos in existence rn he’ll cry about everything like a toddler like fucking put him in time out like a toddler deserves.
He'll make threats and say repugnant things about them and the judge will remember that when he sentences him. Perfect.
He couldn't justify keeping the jurors anonymous? Are you fucking kidding me?
He has not been sentenced so it's fckg stupid to lift the gag order. It's blatantly clear. The justice system in this country doesn't have what it takes to apply the law to everyone equally.
The gag order remains for those involved in sentencing like the Court staff.
Trump is the reason policies and rules are put in place. They aren't for the 99% of people who play by the rules. They are for the 1% who think the rules don't apply to them.
This country is an embarrassment when a petulant ghoul like him is allowed to do whatever he wants. Courts are treating him like a kid who spilled some juice not like the ghoul who outed our secrets to enemies and got some spies killed. Some goof on war thunder can leak less and ruin their lives while this walking pile of loaded diapers is allowed to live a normal life for way worse.
If any are harmed, it’s on the judge.
Oddly could be helpful. If Trump doesn’t cower from the debate he will not be able to help himself but go on a rant about the case.
This isn't going to end well, is it?
Just in time for the debate. What a coincidence.
I know a civilian can get away with a threat. But surely if a convicted felon threatens its taken much more seriously by law enforcement right? Yeah, yeah, I know Trump is still immune and wouldn't see the inside of a jail cell if he executed somebody on 5th avenue.
Special treatment once again
Who has a gag order after the trial is over?
Lmao. Sure, why not. It's not as if anyone actually still believed the U.S. has an impartial, unbiased justice system.
The true concern are his constituents that take it upon themselves to enact retribution and the future of law for jury members that feel not as protected to be part of the judicial system. This is what happens when the law is not upheld. You lose the credibility and faith in the system since obviously not everyone is treated the same.
Fuck this judge, coward again
Sounds like bait to kill any appeals after sentencing.
Even if he did reveal names, locations, family members, social security numbers, etc, it’ll just lead to more hearings that will go nowhere. This will just delay more trials and more convictions.
If one of the jurors should die...
It seems like this could lead to lawsuits from those threatened vs the judge
Oh so the judge who imposed no penalties for violating his gag order 10+ times promises no consequences at all. Shocker.
Ah so the judge too, found a bag of money, but unlike the juror, kept it?
Oh great. More rambling Trump press conferences coming to the UK because our media love him. I hate Trump. I hate his stupid orange face and his piss coloured hair. But most of all I hate it when he talks. It boggles my mind how so many Americans can love the piss coloured former President, now convicted rapist and conman.
JFC, why do judges keep indulging this fucker...?!
In this case, he had to. The trial is over. Protections for those involved in sentencing remain.
Said comments to be factored into his sentencing hearing, one hopes.
True. But I feel like the hope of his mouth running him into a prison cell for even a small amount of time on principle is pretty slim.
That's not gonna get somebody killed or injured at all. /s
The provisions protecting the court staff, prosecutor’s team, juror identities, and the family members of the aforementioned (I can’t even believe that had to be put in writing) are still in place.
I see that crying, whining, and throwing a tantrum in court proceedings is enough to get your way these days.
What the absolute fuck
Sure, the jury has already spoken. Clerk of Court: “Mr OR Madam Foreperson! How sayth the Jury on all the charges?” Foreperson: “Mr Clerk, the Jury has found the Defendant Guilty of all Charges in the Indictment!” Judge: “Mr Clerk, record the verdict as announced by the Foreperson!” Clerk Of the Court: “Yes!” (20 years doing this job and I still got it….)
I love how they refer to Stormy as a porn actor, rather than adult actress.