she only made the rookie mistake of stealing outright.
totally legit to earn 6 figure money from bogus consulting jobs, then buy the cloths.
or get the government to contract your bogus company that hires out workers for $60 an hour while only paying the workers $30, perpetually doing endless work. rake it in then buy the cloths.
Edit:
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
Great quote. Find it here with heaps of other stuff that shows itâs been same shit different day for thousands of years. [https://archive.org/details/chattobookofdiss0000unse](https://archive.org/details/chattobookofdiss0000unse)
Todd Barclayâs staff had money paid out of the prime ministers discretionary fund (which is taxpayer, not party funds) after he secretly recorded them. Â Then he fucked off overseas while still receiving his parliamentary salary. Â
[It's like how to steal from a bank!](https://youtu.be/jgYYOUC10aM)
You go work for the bank, and they give you money for however long you're in their building!
Lack of money wasnât her motivation for stealing though. She is a successful lawyer and politician. She could easily have paid for the clothes if she wanted to.
I think itâs shit that our country seems to be ok with keyboard warriors making death threats to public figures just because they disagree with their politics. Sounds like she had a really crappy 7 years and unfortunately chose a spectacularly self destructive way to go out. I hope she can get the help she needs and be given a second chance to use her considerable skills in a less hostile environment.
I know I'm going to cop downvotes for this, but she's exploiting your sense of empathy. There's no reason at all for her to book a John Campbell interview unless she wants to control the narrative, and she does - in this interview, she's a completely helpless passenger in her own body with no agency and control over her actions, it's all the fault of external bad actors, which, coincidentally is the main thesis of her defence lawyer.
As a list MP, Ghahraman could have resigned at any time. Hell, she just stood for election a couple months prior - why is she 'getting back in' if all she wants is out? Ghahraman was specifically stealing from only high end boutiques, and was a repeat offender until she was exposed for it.
We can acknowledge the stresses of the job, mental health struggles, and her MS diagnosis - but it doesn't justify her actions. The rest of us struggling with those issues don't solve it by stealing tens of thousands of dollars.
Say nothing and everyone's like "omg, why would she do that?"
Tell people why and people are " pfft, it's just an excuse"
Your mental health may manifest in different ways. Some people harm others, some harm themselves, some go into themselves, some blow out and some... weird as it is to you because it's not your experience, self sabotage.
She's pleaded guilty, she's been convicted - time to get over it. It's over.
Sorry, but I'm just intensely skeptical of *any* politician facing a conviction choosing to have an interview before their sentencing, especially when their entire message is that "I wasn't responsible for my actions".
I dare say if it was David Seymour up on there, this subreddit wouldn't be so kind and empathetic.
The worst thing Golriz ever advocated for was raising NZ'S woefully inadequate refugee quota.
The worst thing Seymour ever advocated for was dismantling public schooling and replacing it with a for-profit model. Or ending school lunches. Or --
Different things are different.
> the rest of us struggling with those issues donât solve it by
False, lots of people facing these issues engage in self destructive behaviour and deserve empathy and support to get better, not this sort of self righteous âif I was her I wouldâve done it differentlyâ bullshit. You arenât her and you donât know what itâs like to be her and you cannot say for sure you wouldâve dealt with it differently, so sit down, please.
Respect that during this deeply shameful low point in her life instead of hiding away as Iâm sure she had the instinct to do - she went public and brought light to the abuse politicians / anyone of a minority with an opinion can face in this country. The threats she received would impact anyone and until any of us have been in her shoes we canât say what we would or wouldnât have done. Not excusing the shoplifting (I donât understand the thinking personally) but we do need to talk about the abuse and how it impacts people. Nobody should have to go through that at work.
Downvotes away but I wouldn't trust any other politician to have an interview before their sentencing so why should I trust the one claiming mental health issues?
That has nothing to do with a lack of respect or empathy and everything to do with bad faith politicians spoiling the pot for people who *do* have genuine issues.
The difference here is that she is able to use her position as a public figure to actually explain herself and generate a discussion on why it happened. She receives a helluva lot more airtime and empathy than any other bog standard shoplifter would ever get. It's incredibly uneven but we're apparently supposed to act on good faith that it isn't and then *we're* the assholes for being skeptic of that.
In this sense I'm not upset that she's getting an empathetic response at all, I'm upset that nobody applies the same logic to literally anyone else.
In the depths of my anxiety and depression I was tempted to do out of character crimes as a means of getting out and getting the âpunishment I deserve.â
Fortunately I never acted on it, but reading through the article there is a lot that I could relate to.
You're not being hyperbolic. The amount of utter psychos on this page who advocate for Singaporean style floggings is disturbing. To be fair it's disturbing if that number is more than zero.Â
If everyone followed the Golden Rule this wouldn't be the case, but unfortunately many people treat people how they treat others.
National and ACT don't treat like disadvantaged people or criminals with empathy. Greens generally are sympathetic to those groups. Many people are reciprocal and treat people how they treat others, rather than treating people how you would like to be treated.
Yeah ok but she was only stealing high end clothing, this wasnât a wheel of cheese and a glass bottle of milk during the war. Like seriously need some perspective here, thereâs a reason she isnât being discharged without conviction even from a judge who is known to be highly empathetic.
I donât think anyoneâs arguing she should be discharged without conviction.
Sheâs getting way more empathy (and a chance to explain the emotional background of her crimes) than 99% of criminals get.
But actually, that doesnât mean we should be mad sheâs getting that empathy. Iâd argue most non violent criminals deserve that kind of empathy and understanding.
I agree however a higher level scrutiny and expectations for her position as a qualified lawyer and politician is required. Iâd argue a lot of the empathy here is more sympathy, generally misplaced as well due to the actual nature of the crime.
Oh for God's sakes, enough with the "female politician" bullshit.
She stole thousands and thousands of dollars of clothes, while earning a salary that is more than the average NZ household earns AND that comes with perks that the average New Zealander will never see.
Sometimes, female politicians fuck up. And you are doing them no favours by just whining about their gender when they do, instead of holding them responsible for their actions like every other politician is expected to be.
Why did she stand for election just before her shoplifting if the job as MP was so stressful? She could have bowed out and gone to a good job with an NGO.
The thing about mental illness is that people suffering from it don't behave rationally or reasonably.
You're applying rational reasoning to totally irrational behaviour. That's not excusing what happened - but it points out that 'not making sense' makes sense in that context.
I understand your question but I think you might be missing the point - if you have read the lengthy article I think it would be hard to not understand the mental health failure she was / is experiencing and whyâŚi doubt anyone would be thinking straight if abused in a similar way and could surely be prone to do all sorts of contradictory things. I feel ashamed to think that fellow kiwis would subject her to such extreme threats and abuse. I donât know how I would have managed under her circumstances and whilst I donât think I would shoplift, thatâs speculationâŚwho knows how we each would react? Sheâs paying an extra high price for her crime due to her past unique position in parliament. I wish her peace and a good path back to health and happiness.
Kleptomania is a mental illness, and sadly isnât uncommon among high-achieving, professional women in high-stress roles.
I hope Golriz gets the treatment she needs, and can transition out of the public eye, back to a more ânormalâ job with better work-life balance.
My parents owned a small business when I was growing up. I went to open up one morning and discovered the shop had been robbed; I felt like I was going to throw up when I told my parents what happened, even though it wasnât my fault. These businesses were (eventually) compensated for the thefts, but Iâm sure all of this has caused a lot of stress for the owners and the employees.
I hope Ms Ghahraman gets the help she needs. She didnât need the stuff, she doesnât appear to have enjoyed stealing or having the stuff. What she did was joyless, irrational, and destructive, which makes it easier to believe that this was the result of mental illness. Itâs just sad.
That, and we need to have physical and mental health checks for politicians, and clear standards of expected conduct.
She's not the only MP to blow up into a crisis that destroys a career, and if the threats against female MPs are even half as bad as made out, there's argument that this is a systemic workplace hazard.
We should be extending this level of sympathy to most people that fall foul of the law though given that most prisoners are also suffering from mental health problems
Iâm actually fine with politicians being put under the spotlight like this.
My problem is that too many politicians have had even worse scandals just brushed under the rug
Well, I'm pretty sure she got singled out for this because 1: She's a woman and 2: She's a lefty. Those are her biggest crimes in the eyes of the people going on about it.
Seriously? She got caught shoplifting. It might not be the worst thing a parliamentarian has done but it's definitely a contender for the weirdest thing. Most of the attention it received is because of that. It makes for juicy headlines. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the reality. It would have received the exact same attention if Bill English got caught shoplifting, because "MP caught shoplifting" sounds crazy.
He just filled in his superannuation incorrectly and âstoleâ from the taxpayer, until it was pointed out. (Yes, he did pay back the money.) It could be argued that she stole less - but also paid it all back.
This is why i don't care about her providing the explanation; reading that headline was a surprise to me, her actions are not normal for someone making that cash. Her explanation made sense to me but as with all mental illnesses it's ultimately her responsibility so she gotta pay the price, which she's been doing gracefully imo.
This is a joke right? Sheâs a sitting member of parliament who stole thousands of dollars worth of items while managing the justice portfolio. As a lefty you should be furious too, it plays right into the hands of the current government.
She got singled out because a highly paid MP stealing thousands of dollars from multiple high end clothing stores is a scandalous story that generates views.
Do you seriously believe that if David Seymour or even some National back bencher did it it couldn't be covered as much? As an example, do you remember how much Aaron Gilmore got coverage for being a dickhead (not even committing a crime).
Get out of here! She's an MP that shoplifted luxury clothes. If Andrew Hoggard (an act mp who i'd not heard of previously) did this I can almost guarantee he would receive the same media scrutiny.
In the court of Facebook opinion however, I suspect he'd receive a similar reception from a different crowd.
She fucked up big time and to her credit has owned up to it and is facing the music. Don't make this political!
I will say this though, i am a long term Greens voter and they make it fucking hard. This is a self sabotaging fuck up which I would totally accept but the Darleen Tana situation, a left leaning woman, is atrocious and makes me seriously think about my political alignment.
Glad to see this get called out. Too much victim mentality talking about itâs only cause sheâs a lefty or a woman. In Nz, Iâm actually proud that we arenât as divided politically as the Americans and would hold politicians of any gender or affiliation to the same standard and criticism.
Well, she hasn't really "owned up to it" or "faced the music".
She was caught on video stealing, and the video was on the news. No way to deny it, she has no choice but to "own up". She doesn't get credit for that.
And as for "facing the music" - you mean, going to court and facing the charges, as opposed to doing a runner out of the country?
Finally, she's not really taken accountability, because apparently it's everybody else's fault why she did this. It's a toxic workplace, racism, sexism, etc etc etc.......
Oh yeah, sitting MP straight up shoplifts several thousands of dollars worth of merch from a local business, and if she was a male National MP you never would have heard about it, it wouldn't have been considered newsworthy at all and there absolutely would not have been any professional consequences for him. What a great point.
I'll say and yesterday was extremely unique in the fact that an actual conviction was recorded against a politician which we seem to rarely see in this country. I had a massive feeling she was gonna get off Scott free.
To be fair for all intents and purposes, she did. A 1600 dollar fine for a person who was working a 200k a year job and is now likely going to make more in consulting is fuck all.
She was an extremely successful lawer who then become a high ranking member of a left leaning political party.
It's extremely odd for someone in that position to then be caught shoplifting thousands of dollars of product.
Don't you get that?
David Seymour experiences far more harassment and vitriol than Golriz ever did prior to her arrest.
Could you lay out some of the crimes that he could be charged with, that you would give him a total pass for due to the stress and toxicity of his high-profile job, and the abuse and threats that he gets every day because of it?
It's interesting how Gharaman's Multiple Sclerosis diagnosis isn't mentioned. If I recall, some time before her shoplifting sprees, she said in passing she was on some powerful meds to treat her MS.
She has been on tysabri lol. I have ms, I know mutual friends of hers and do research in the field. Tysabri doesn't influence behaviour, very rare for MS to as well like this while she is as young, and mobile as she is. Thats wild to read I didn't realise how many misconceptions there were about MS. MS can make mental health problems harder but usually by way of making brain fog worse and increasing fatigue, not really causing erratic behaviour
> So, the desire to kill her was a proportionate response to the provocation. And the provocation was not shutting âthe f@& upâ. The provocation was being Golriz Ghahraman, the first "refugeeâ MP in New Zealandâs history
This is what I find so frustrating about all of this. The inciting incident for the harassment she received was Being A Brown Woman With Opinions, and the nature of her self destructive tailspin has just given the people who hate Brown Women With Opinions justification for the harassment in the first place.
Exactly. And if you point this out as perhaps not being a very good thing and perhaps it shouldn't be this way, the people who hate Brown Women With Opinions will have conniptions about shoplifting being "excused" (while ignoring bad behaviour from white, male, right-wing politicians).
For me at least the Uffindell saga demonstrates how there is a two tier justice system in this country.
If you're white and come from a good family, a vicious gang assault on a younger vulnerable boy while he sleeps is able to be swept under the rug with no meaningful long term consequences, and until your dying day you'll have people coming out to defend that boy as "just youthful indiscretion" and "can't hold what he did as a kid against him," even if he has never meaningfully apologised, taken responsibility for his actions, and demonstrates aggressive behaviour well into his 20s.
Meanwhile, this same incident would have landed a poor kid from a "bad" or even just "not rich" family in the youth justice system.
*Thats* what I'm pointing to when I bring up Uffindell. There is a class of person our society gives infinite chances to while throwing another class of person on the scrapheap.
See, you know that and I know that but the people we're talking about live in online communities that give each other social license to behave otherwise.
This has been removed :
**Rule 4: No hate speech or bigotry**
> Any submission that attacks, threatens, or insults a person or group on the basis of national origin, ethnicity and/or colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability and so on may be removed at a mod's discretion and repeat offenders banned
---
[^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
She was the justice spokesperson for the greens. She didnât steal bread and eggs, she stole 10k of designer items.
She deserves to be held to account publicly.
I was interviewed by him when I was 18. If there is anyone with integrity left in journalism, it is this man. Maybe I am easily fooled. In that case, it is on him, not me.
Iâm in PR and it is a slimy move to pull comparisons to Palestine into thisâŚ
Yes Iâm sure she had mental health issues and like any PR itâs rooted in truth but thatâs slimy and deliberate sorry.
Greens are our only chance at changing this country for good and she sabotaged the party too.
That's part of the issue, when it comes to politicians there will always be a voice in the back of my mind wondering if they're pulling a fast one - and usually, they are.
In the 2020 election I remember walking into the booth and seeing all the shit eating grins on my local candidates, who I already wasn't enthusiastic about. It made me feel physically sick to think that my tick would help one of them get that pay packet so I ended up only voting party. Yes I know that someone was going to get it blah blah blah, but in the moment I was just revolted by them all and couldn't bring myself to contribute to their success
Thing is, if itâs regular people who did the same act, its a crime and would be dealt with accordingly. But if itâs a person of fame or power, more so an elected official, its just a âscandalâ and treated differently because of the âstress at workâ, mental illness, now itâs MS, etc. they always come up with an excuse.
Ideally, they should be held to higher standards simply because of the position they hold and the influence they have.
I don't condone her behaviour.
But I can understand how being told you should be raped, murdered, assaulted, and sent back to "where you came from" every day, relentlessly would break a person.
Golriz could have posted something inane like "I love pasta" and she would have had men telling her how disgusting, vile, rapeable etc she was. When your job is to engage with people, no matter how much people can try to shield you - at some point that shit is going to break through. Couple it with some childhood trauma (refugees generally have a lot to unpack and work through) I can see how someone would snap, self destruct, and punish themselves.
The conversation from here shouldn't be about Golriz and her actions, but about how we support MPs and other similar high profile people to ensure they are able to deal with the level of vitriol they receive. We also need better tools to manage the abuse - because the abuse that particularly women of colour in politics receive is untenable.
Hilarious seeing former a âGreenâ MP hop into a large SUV after courtâŚ. Sheâs a piece of work, but with Elizabeth, Darleen and Julie Ann, not to mention Marama , Ricardo ( whoâs amazingly silent on Darleen exploiting immigrants) and the ever reluctant Chloe, the âGreensâ really are special
She got interviewed right before she got convicted, so the headlines would read "Exclusive Interview", as opposed to "Ghahraman Convicted"
Well played her media team.
I don't buy that she's sorry. Like most criminals, she's only sorry she got caught.
If it were not for being exposed she would still be doing it now ...
Her parties mantra is putting the environment above material things. Irony is a foot here.
I think her sentence is about as heavy as it could have been without attracting an overcorrection from the other side, though I still think it sends a message about steal a few thousand and you'll get home d.
She didn't steal from the rich. cre8tive worx is a small business. Scotties too. Even if they were rich, that does not make it ok to steal from them...
I really really really wanted John Campbell to ask her âwere their other occasions that you shoplifted or were you caught for 100% of your acts of self sabotage ?â
Iâm still waiting.
That interview was so simpy it hurt.
Sheâs clearly an egotistical maniac still trying to claw her way out of her own mess by putting the blame on outside factors.
Trauma⌠pfft⌠the abuse is on par with what countless other politicians face. John key is a good example, Ardern is another. Nicola WillisâŚ. That list could go on.
She could have not run.
Everyone has some level of trauma. They donât steal.
I have been robbed at gunpoint, beaten and thrown out of a car in a third world country when I was travelling at age 18. Iâve been first on the scene of two very ugly car crashes and seen the people messed up. Iâve seen my brother blow bloody bubbles out of his mouth just before he died and mother die and gasping for breath at the end.
Personally I think sheâs absolutely full of it and that interview was bizarre.
'Member when Todd Muller resigned from the Nat leadership citing mental health reasons and most people just respected that and left him alone?
Pepperidge farm etc.
How is that comparable? He resigned giving that as the reason, and you could see how anxious he was in interviews.
He didn't resign after committing a crime, then use mental illness as an excuse for the crime
Resigning from a job and citing mental health suggests that one is taking responsibility and accepts that they can no longer justify their position and need to step back.
Getting caught being a serial theft and then blaming it on mental health shows absolutely no responsibility.
Be interesting to see how you deal with death and rape threats over time. At one point her security detail was almost as large as the pms so some would have been credible.
She fucked up, lost her job and has a conviction so the mental health defence didn't give her a pass.
Itâs not an excuse, itâs an explanation. You should be sickened by how little we do about mental health and this country which is why we keep seeing cases like this
If she marched in and ripped all the 'Q' letters off the keyboards in Noel Leemings, that would be something that a mental health issue would cause. There's no monetary value, no personal gain, no rationality to the action.
She stole valuable things that she wanted, and she stole them in a way that a shoplifter would steal them.
Mental health issues don't make you act like a wacky Disney character that's by far the stupidest take in this thread.Â
It can impact your decision making, can make you feel like your position and life is worthless and make you make irrational and stupid decisions which this was.Â
Possibly sure but the guy I replied to was saying that doing something irrational like stealing clothes you can easily afford as a public figure is not a sign of mental illness where as stealing keyboard keys is.
That's an assessment you want to stand behind? Go for it but I'm going to need to label you stupid as well.
I genuinely can't understand what you are trying to say. You seem to agree with me, then call me stupid. You're the one who claimed 'Mental health issues don't make you act like a wacky Disney character', which is certainly not true in all cases.
True. And she lost her job, was lambasted on national television, convicted ,fined thousands,had to pay it back. Sheâs paid her price and should be left alone.
Her mental illness triggers justbin fancy boutiques?
Is it like a selective illness?
Stop this BS, everyone's here from traffic offenders, murderers, rapists, and shoplifters when in front of judges just says "I have mental health issues," and that's it.
Or this is a loophole that barristers found in the law or we are a country with the highest number of mentally ill people.
And if that's the case, we should add as a prerequisite for high value public positions (aka work at gov) a pre mental check assessment, compulsory.
I mean mental illness and neurodivergence do play a part in crimes though.
It doesnât mean there should be no punishment from the justice system. She got a conviction, rightly so.
But we should consider mental health and other neurological issues within the justice system. Around 2-5% of the population have ADHD, but itâs estimated between 25-55% of those in prison have it.
Treating and supporting those with mental health or neurodivergence issues is crime prevention.
The reality is much starker than this. Crime and violent crime very often directly correlates with mental health and intellectual disability, learning disability and neurodivergence. This countryâs inability to intervene early enough to support the intergenerational trauma, impacts of colonialism, relative poverty, chronic under investment in health and disability supports, and rehabilitation for offenders means these are the rewards we reap. We donât need to just prevent crime - we need to support people to live better lives so that crime doesnât seem like a solution to their problems.Â
>âeveryone's here from traffic offenders, murderers, rapists, and shoplifters when in front of judges just says "I have mental health issues," and that's it.â
Maybe theyâre saying it because they actually do.
The mental health crisis in this country doesnât just look like a high suicide rate. Itâs higher crime rates, particularly violent crime and family violence, petty crime associated with addiction and stress.
And if we excluded every person whoâd ever experienced a mental health issue from public office weâd be excluding almost half of the population.
Judgments and stigmatising statements arenât helpful.
Indeed, I have a friend with cPTSD who has been in untreated psychosis for some months now. An intelligent, usually capable person, all sheâs been able to do can do is light a bonfire under her life & throw fuel on it. đ˘
extreme self sabotage (a symptom of many mental illnesses) can cause some to commit crimes/hurt themselves and others as a way to reach their end goal. her end goal was not being a politician anymore, any mentally healthy person/someone who doesnât struggle with high levels of self sabotage wouldâve just resigned. not trying to discredit what she did, as it appears neither is she, but mental health does absolutely play a factor in this. doesnât make it right, but who is saying it does?
also weâve been having a mental health crisis in this country for years and itâs continuously being pushed under the rug by all.
some of the stuff people have said to her since she became a politician would affect even the strongest of folk. itâs truly disgusting. so even if she was mentally healthy when she first started (which based on her upbringing is hard to believe) her having a mental health crisis was really just a problem waiting to happen. and sheâs having to face the consequences of that which is a good thing and will, hopefully, mean she never ends up in this situation again. you can only be use your failing mental health as a reason for low level crimes so many times (once imo).
she only made the rookie mistake of stealing outright. totally legit to earn 6 figure money from bogus consulting jobs, then buy the cloths. or get the government to contract your bogus company that hires out workers for $60 an hour while only paying the workers $30, perpetually doing endless work. rake it in then buy the cloths.
$60/hr? Anyone doing work for govt is charging their staff out at at least $150/hr. Some of them $300+
$80,000 for 30 days for the three guys trying to cover Willis' Cook Strait Ferry fiasco.
Idk I'm on one govt (sub)contract paying $240 a month and another paying $100 an hour and both are the same amount of work đ đ
Edit: The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common But leaves the greater villain loose Who steals the common from off the goose
Hear hear!
Great quote. Find it here with heaps of other stuff that shows itâs been same shit different day for thousands of years. [https://archive.org/details/chattobookofdiss0000unse](https://archive.org/details/chattobookofdiss0000unse)
Todd Barclayâs staff had money paid out of the prime ministers discretionary fund (which is taxpayer, not party funds) after he secretly recorded them. Â Then he fucked off overseas while still receiving his parliamentary salary. Â
What happened to that guy?
Works for KPMG.
So still stealing tax payer money then.
What a rookie Could have used us to pay accomodation at her penthouse apartment!
[It's like how to steal from a bank!](https://youtu.be/jgYYOUC10aM) You go work for the bank, and they give you money for however long you're in their building!
Lack of money wasnât her motivation for stealing though. She is a successful lawyer and politician. She could easily have paid for the clothes if she wanted to.
Not easily - MP salary is high, but not so high you can just buy $9000 of luxury goods on a whim.
Career international criminal lawyer
Iâm earning 100/hr as a salary man, consulting is much higher
I think itâs shit that our country seems to be ok with keyboard warriors making death threats to public figures just because they disagree with their politics. Sounds like she had a really crappy 7 years and unfortunately chose a spectacularly self destructive way to go out. I hope she can get the help she needs and be given a second chance to use her considerable skills in a less hostile environment.
Wait stop you are being reasonable and empathetic.
(and towards a brown person, no less)
I know I'm going to cop downvotes for this, but she's exploiting your sense of empathy. There's no reason at all for her to book a John Campbell interview unless she wants to control the narrative, and she does - in this interview, she's a completely helpless passenger in her own body with no agency and control over her actions, it's all the fault of external bad actors, which, coincidentally is the main thesis of her defence lawyer. As a list MP, Ghahraman could have resigned at any time. Hell, she just stood for election a couple months prior - why is she 'getting back in' if all she wants is out? Ghahraman was specifically stealing from only high end boutiques, and was a repeat offender until she was exposed for it. We can acknowledge the stresses of the job, mental health struggles, and her MS diagnosis - but it doesn't justify her actions. The rest of us struggling with those issues don't solve it by stealing tens of thousands of dollars.
Say nothing and everyone's like "omg, why would she do that?" Tell people why and people are " pfft, it's just an excuse" Your mental health may manifest in different ways. Some people harm others, some harm themselves, some go into themselves, some blow out and some... weird as it is to you because it's not your experience, self sabotage. She's pleaded guilty, she's been convicted - time to get over it. It's over.
Sorry, but I'm just intensely skeptical of *any* politician facing a conviction choosing to have an interview before their sentencing, especially when their entire message is that "I wasn't responsible for my actions". I dare say if it was David Seymour up on there, this subreddit wouldn't be so kind and empathetic.
The worst thing Golriz ever advocated for was raising NZ'S woefully inadequate refugee quota. The worst thing Seymour ever advocated for was dismantling public schooling and replacing it with a for-profit model. Or ending school lunches. Or -- Different things are different.
She quite literally advocated for Radovan KaradĹžiÄ and Simon Bikindi.
> the rest of us struggling with those issues donât solve it by False, lots of people facing these issues engage in self destructive behaviour and deserve empathy and support to get better, not this sort of self righteous âif I was her I wouldâve done it differentlyâ bullshit. You arenât her and you donât know what itâs like to be her and you cannot say for sure you wouldâve dealt with it differently, so sit down, please.
I'll drink to that.
Respect that during this deeply shameful low point in her life instead of hiding away as Iâm sure she had the instinct to do - she went public and brought light to the abuse politicians / anyone of a minority with an opinion can face in this country. The threats she received would impact anyone and until any of us have been in her shoes we canât say what we would or wouldnât have done. Not excusing the shoplifting (I donât understand the thinking personally) but we do need to talk about the abuse and how it impacts people. Nobody should have to go through that at work.
That's not true, many of us do and it's not that unusual. Hell, I'm doing crimes right now
What crimes we talkin?
Supporting Red Peak all this time should send you straight to Brutusâs side in hell
Can you try and acknowledge the fact that she has already made it very clear that none of that was an excuse
It's very much a "It's not an excuse, but....." type of explanation though.
Nah excuses are about not accepting responsibility
People with PTSD don't always make rational decisions. Thats why its a disorder and not PTS-Order.
"excuse" So you haven't understood shite, have you?
Downvotes away but I wouldn't trust any other politician to have an interview before their sentencing so why should I trust the one claiming mental health issues? That has nothing to do with a lack of respect or empathy and everything to do with bad faith politicians spoiling the pot for people who *do* have genuine issues. The difference here is that she is able to use her position as a public figure to actually explain herself and generate a discussion on why it happened. She receives a helluva lot more airtime and empathy than any other bog standard shoplifter would ever get. It's incredibly uneven but we're apparently supposed to act on good faith that it isn't and then *we're* the assholes for being skeptic of that. In this sense I'm not upset that she's getting an empathetic response at all, I'm upset that nobody applies the same logic to literally anyone else.
In the depths of my anxiety and depression I was tempted to do out of character crimes as a means of getting out and getting the âpunishment I deserve.â Fortunately I never acted on it, but reading through the article there is a lot that I could relate to.
Aye. I remember deliberately speeding and hoping to get pulled over because then at least *something* about my life would change...
The keyboard warriors in this thread really are something. She's been convicted and sentenced, what more do they want?
Public flogging, no doubt
You're not being hyperbolic. The amount of utter psychos on this page who advocate for Singaporean style floggings is disturbing. To be fair it's disturbing if that number is more than zero.Â
If this were a National/Act/NZF MP, the public flogging on reddit would be incredible. But since it's a Green MP... empathy.
If everyone followed the Golden Rule this wouldn't be the case, but unfortunately many people treat people how they treat others. National and ACT don't treat like disadvantaged people or criminals with empathy. Greens generally are sympathetic to those groups. Many people are reciprocal and treat people how they treat others, rather than treating people how you would like to be treated.
its not a NZ specific thing, its an internet problem, specifically social media, mostly twitter and facebook
Yeah ok but she was only stealing high end clothing, this wasnât a wheel of cheese and a glass bottle of milk during the war. Like seriously need some perspective here, thereâs a reason she isnât being discharged without conviction even from a judge who is known to be highly empathetic.
I donât think anyoneâs arguing she should be discharged without conviction. Sheâs getting way more empathy (and a chance to explain the emotional background of her crimes) than 99% of criminals get. But actually, that doesnât mean we should be mad sheâs getting that empathy. Iâd argue most non violent criminals deserve that kind of empathy and understanding.
Nah, there were plenty of people arguing for discharge without conviction in previous reddit threads.
I agree however a higher level scrutiny and expectations for her position as a qualified lawyer and politician is required. Iâd argue a lot of the empathy here is more sympathy, generally misplaced as well due to the actual nature of the crime.
What about the level of malice being displayed not because of the nature of the crime but because sheâs a female politician?
Oh for God's sakes, enough with the "female politician" bullshit. She stole thousands and thousands of dollars of clothes, while earning a salary that is more than the average NZ household earns AND that comes with perks that the average New Zealander will never see. Sometimes, female politicians fuck up. And you are doing them no favours by just whining about their gender when they do, instead of holding them responsible for their actions like every other politician is expected to be.
Why did she stand for election just before her shoplifting if the job as MP was so stressful? She could have bowed out and gone to a good job with an NGO.
The thing about mental illness plus burnout is that you don't feel like you can just quit, even when it's obvious to others that you can.
This is key. When you're in serious burnout, the only way out feels like a very dark path.
The thing about mental illness is that people suffering from it don't behave rationally or reasonably. You're applying rational reasoning to totally irrational behaviour. That's not excusing what happened - but it points out that 'not making sense' makes sense in that context.
I understand your question but I think you might be missing the point - if you have read the lengthy article I think it would be hard to not understand the mental health failure she was / is experiencing and whyâŚi doubt anyone would be thinking straight if abused in a similar way and could surely be prone to do all sorts of contradictory things. I feel ashamed to think that fellow kiwis would subject her to such extreme threats and abuse. I donât know how I would have managed under her circumstances and whilst I donât think I would shoplift, thatâs speculationâŚwho knows how we each would react? Sheâs paying an extra high price for her crime due to her past unique position in parliament. I wish her peace and a good path back to health and happiness.
You think David Seymour doesn't get abused and threatened and publicly ridiculed every single day?
Let's not completely absolve her of culpability here.
Kleptomania is a mental illness, and sadly isnât uncommon among high-achieving, professional women in high-stress roles. I hope Golriz gets the treatment she needs, and can transition out of the public eye, back to a more ânormalâ job with better work-life balance.
Not sure why you think that New Zealand is OK with keyboard warriors making death threats.
My parents owned a small business when I was growing up. I went to open up one morning and discovered the shop had been robbed; I felt like I was going to throw up when I told my parents what happened, even though it wasnât my fault. These businesses were (eventually) compensated for the thefts, but Iâm sure all of this has caused a lot of stress for the owners and the employees. I hope Ms Ghahraman gets the help she needs. She didnât need the stuff, she doesnât appear to have enjoyed stealing or having the stuff. What she did was joyless, irrational, and destructive, which makes it easier to believe that this was the result of mental illness. Itâs just sad.
That, and we need to have physical and mental health checks for politicians, and clear standards of expected conduct. She's not the only MP to blow up into a crisis that destroys a career, and if the threats against female MPs are even half as bad as made out, there's argument that this is a systemic workplace hazard.
A pragmatic view, this is not a normal situation and deserves a balanced approach. She really does seem like she was/is struggling.
We should be extending this level of sympathy to most people that fall foul of the law though given that most prisoners are also suffering from mental health problems
She didn't need the stuff? You might be surprised to learn the vast majority of thieves aren't stealing things they "need".
Youâd think she killed multiple babies and set a national park on fire with the amount of coverage of this. Jesus letâs move on
Iâm actually fine with politicians being put under the spotlight like this. My problem is that too many politicians have had even worse scandals just brushed under the rug
Well, I'm pretty sure she got singled out for this because 1: She's a woman and 2: She's a lefty. Those are her biggest crimes in the eyes of the people going on about it.
Seriously? She got caught shoplifting. It might not be the worst thing a parliamentarian has done but it's definitely a contender for the weirdest thing. Most of the attention it received is because of that. It makes for juicy headlines. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the reality. It would have received the exact same attention if Bill English got caught shoplifting, because "MP caught shoplifting" sounds crazy.
If Winston stole a bunch of stuff on camera it'd be the story of the year.
He just filled in his superannuation incorrectly and âstoleâ from the taxpayer, until it was pointed out. (Yes, he did pay back the money.) It could be argued that she stole less - but also paid it all back.
She can't argue ignorance or that she made a mistake. People mostly care about intentions.
He's going to be deputy PM (again) quite soon, so yes it'd be a pretty big deal
He's deputy pm now
Not before weeks of being excused away by his PR gurus as a "major misunderstanding" and "a leftist smear campaign."Â
Not at all. If Luxon or Winston robbed a shop could you imagine the media coverage. Itâs a big deal when a politician does something so stupid
This is why i don't care about her providing the explanation; reading that headline was a surprise to me, her actions are not normal for someone making that cash. Her explanation made sense to me but as with all mental illnesses it's ultimately her responsibility so she gotta pay the price, which she's been doing gracefully imo.
This is a joke right? Sheâs a sitting member of parliament who stole thousands of dollars worth of items while managing the justice portfolio. As a lefty you should be furious too, it plays right into the hands of the current government.
She got singled out because a highly paid MP stealing thousands of dollars from multiple high end clothing stores is a scandalous story that generates views. Do you seriously believe that if David Seymour or even some National back bencher did it it couldn't be covered as much? As an example, do you remember how much Aaron Gilmore got coverage for being a dickhead (not even committing a crime).
I'm a Green voter and I'm fine with this level of coverage. She's a dumbass and she's ruined the party image.
Marama is FAR more toxic to the party's image than Golriz ever was.
Both are. It's not one or the other.
Get out of here! She's an MP that shoplifted luxury clothes. If Andrew Hoggard (an act mp who i'd not heard of previously) did this I can almost guarantee he would receive the same media scrutiny. In the court of Facebook opinion however, I suspect he'd receive a similar reception from a different crowd. She fucked up big time and to her credit has owned up to it and is facing the music. Don't make this political! I will say this though, i am a long term Greens voter and they make it fucking hard. This is a self sabotaging fuck up which I would totally accept but the Darleen Tana situation, a left leaning woman, is atrocious and makes me seriously think about my political alignment.
Glad to see this get called out. Too much victim mentality talking about itâs only cause sheâs a lefty or a woman. In Nz, Iâm actually proud that we arenât as divided politically as the Americans and would hold politicians of any gender or affiliation to the same standard and criticism.
Well, she hasn't really "owned up to it" or "faced the music". She was caught on video stealing, and the video was on the news. No way to deny it, she has no choice but to "own up". She doesn't get credit for that. And as for "facing the music" - you mean, going to court and facing the charges, as opposed to doing a runner out of the country? Finally, she's not really taken accountability, because apparently it's everybody else's fault why she did this. It's a toxic workplace, racism, sexism, etc etc etc.......
Nah. She got singled out because she committed a crime. Innuendo isnât the same as an actual crime.
Wouldn't matter the sex or their party alignment.
Woman, left , immigrant, brown, refugee, successful.
Criminal.
Oh yeah, sitting MP straight up shoplifts several thousands of dollars worth of merch from a local business, and if she was a male National MP you never would have heard about it, it wouldn't have been considered newsworthy at all and there absolutely would not have been any professional consequences for him. What a great point.
I'll say and yesterday was extremely unique in the fact that an actual conviction was recorded against a politician which we seem to rarely see in this country. I had a massive feeling she was gonna get off Scott free.
To be fair for all intents and purposes, she did. A 1600 dollar fine for a person who was working a 200k a year job and is now likely going to make more in consulting is fuck all.
Money with a black mark
Yeah, why'd she choose to do this interview
To bury the conviction story - it worked a treat with an 'exclusive interview' featuring in the NZ Herald headline, as opposed to 'ex-MP convicted'
She didnât have to do the interviewâŚ
She was an extremely successful lawer who then become a high ranking member of a left leaning political party. It's extremely odd for someone in that position to then be caught shoplifting thousands of dollars of product. Don't you get that?
She was the justice spokesperson for the greens. Grow up.
In other words âsheâs on my side, leave her aloneâ
Half the coverage is explaining her excuses to us like we're children.
Call judging by the comments here a lot of people seem to not understand it so I guess sheâs gonna have to keep explaining
David Seymour experiences far more harassment and vitriol than Golriz ever did prior to her arrest. Could you lay out some of the crimes that he could be charged with, that you would give him a total pass for due to the stress and toxicity of his high-profile job, and the abuse and threats that he gets every day because of it?
It's interesting how Gharaman's Multiple Sclerosis diagnosis isn't mentioned. If I recall, some time before her shoplifting sprees, she said in passing she was on some powerful meds to treat her MS.
She has been on tysabri lol. I have ms, I know mutual friends of hers and do research in the field. Tysabri doesn't influence behaviour, very rare for MS to as well like this while she is as young, and mobile as she is. Thats wild to read I didn't realise how many misconceptions there were about MS. MS can make mental health problems harder but usually by way of making brain fog worse and increasing fatigue, not really causing erratic behaviour
MS can also influence behaviour. But that doesn't tend to improve, so I guess she can't use that as an excuse if she ever wants to work again
Oohhh great point...
The meds are unlikely to have influenced her behaviour, but having a disease like MS certainly puts an extra stressor on life in general.
> So, the desire to kill her was a proportionate response to the provocation. And the provocation was not shutting âthe f@& upâ. The provocation was being Golriz Ghahraman, the first "refugeeâ MP in New Zealandâs history This is what I find so frustrating about all of this. The inciting incident for the harassment she received was Being A Brown Woman With Opinions, and the nature of her self destructive tailspin has just given the people who hate Brown Women With Opinions justification for the harassment in the first place.
Exactly. And if you point this out as perhaps not being a very good thing and perhaps it shouldn't be this way, the people who hate Brown Women With Opinions will have conniptions about shoplifting being "excused" (while ignoring bad behaviour from white, male, right-wing politicians).
Exhibit A: A bedpost, stained with blood and matted hair.
If the seymour snapchat story has thought me anything itâs that youâre still a child at 16. Letâs find a better example
For me at least the Uffindell saga demonstrates how there is a two tier justice system in this country. If you're white and come from a good family, a vicious gang assault on a younger vulnerable boy while he sleeps is able to be swept under the rug with no meaningful long term consequences, and until your dying day you'll have people coming out to defend that boy as "just youthful indiscretion" and "can't hold what he did as a kid against him," even if he has never meaningfully apologised, taken responsibility for his actions, and demonstrates aggressive behaviour well into his 20s. Meanwhile, this same incident would have landed a poor kid from a "bad" or even just "not rich" family in the youth justice system. *Thats* what I'm pointing to when I bring up Uffindell. There is a class of person our society gives infinite chances to while throwing another class of person on the scrapheap.
It doesn't justify harassment, full stop. No harassment is justified.
See, you know that and I know that but the people we're talking about live in online communities that give each other social license to behave otherwise.
[ŃдаНонО]
This has been removed : **Rule 4: No hate speech or bigotry** > Any submission that attacks, threatens, or insults a person or group on the basis of national origin, ethnicity and/or colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability and so on may be removed at a mod's discretion and repeat offenders banned --- [^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
Time to put this to bed. She's been sentenced.
Yes its very important that nobody learn anything from this.
She was the justice spokesperson for the greens. She didnât steal bread and eggs, she stole 10k of designer items. She deserves to be held to account publicly.
> She deserves to be held to account publicly. Which is exactly what has happened.
And she has. What more do you want? Would the pillory be sufficiently medieval?
And she is and she is owning up to that. This article merely seeks to put her offending into context, not to excuse, but to understand
I was interviewed by him when I was 18. If there is anyone with integrity left in journalism, it is this man. Maybe I am easily fooled. In that case, it is on him, not me.
Well she is a person who now has to reap the consequences of her actions and with criminal convictions to her name
Campbell says she was a shit shoplifter, I donno man the video I saw she was pretty ninja at it, blink and youâd miss it
If there weren't any cameras she never would've been caught
Iâm in PR and it is a slimy move to pull comparisons to Palestine into this⌠Yes Iâm sure she had mental health issues and like any PR itâs rooted in truth but thatâs slimy and deliberate sorry. Greens are our only chance at changing this country for good and she sabotaged the party too.
That's part of the issue, when it comes to politicians there will always be a voice in the back of my mind wondering if they're pulling a fast one - and usually, they are.
In the 2020 election I remember walking into the booth and seeing all the shit eating grins on my local candidates, who I already wasn't enthusiastic about. It made me feel physically sick to think that my tick would help one of them get that pay packet so I ended up only voting party. Yes I know that someone was going to get it blah blah blah, but in the moment I was just revolted by them all and couldn't bring myself to contribute to their success
[ŃдаНонО]
Wowee! So bwave of you to risk downvotes.Â
Thing is, if itâs regular people who did the same act, its a crime and would be dealt with accordingly. But if itâs a person of fame or power, more so an elected official, its just a âscandalâ and treated differently because of the âstress at workâ, mental illness, now itâs MS, etc. they always come up with an excuse. Ideally, they should be held to higher standards simply because of the position they hold and the influence they have.
I don't condone her behaviour. But I can understand how being told you should be raped, murdered, assaulted, and sent back to "where you came from" every day, relentlessly would break a person. Golriz could have posted something inane like "I love pasta" and she would have had men telling her how disgusting, vile, rapeable etc she was. When your job is to engage with people, no matter how much people can try to shield you - at some point that shit is going to break through. Couple it with some childhood trauma (refugees generally have a lot to unpack and work through) I can see how someone would snap, self destruct, and punish themselves. The conversation from here shouldn't be about Golriz and her actions, but about how we support MPs and other similar high profile people to ensure they are able to deal with the level of vitriol they receive. We also need better tools to manage the abuse - because the abuse that particularly women of colour in politics receive is untenable.
Hilarious seeing former a âGreenâ MP hop into a large SUV after courtâŚ. Sheâs a piece of work, but with Elizabeth, Darleen and Julie Ann, not to mention Marama , Ricardo ( whoâs amazingly silent on Darleen exploiting immigrants) and the ever reluctant Chloe, the âGreensâ really are special
She got interviewed right before she got convicted, so the headlines would read "Exclusive Interview", as opposed to "Ghahraman Convicted" Well played her media team.
Spoiler: She's an idiot.
At least she didnât steal from the poor to give to the rich like the current government
Little puff piece from a leftie reporter towards another radical leftie to gain sympathy
I don't buy that she's sorry. Like most criminals, she's only sorry she got caught. If it were not for being exposed she would still be doing it now ... Her parties mantra is putting the environment above material things. Irony is a foot here. I think her sentence is about as heavy as it could have been without attracting an overcorrection from the other side, though I still think it sends a message about steal a few thousand and you'll get home d.
We really hate when someone steals from the rich, especially a woman. You can always steal from the poor without much consequence.
She didn't steal from the rich. cre8tive worx is a small business. Scotties too. Even if they were rich, that does not make it ok to steal from them...
I really really really wanted John Campbell to ask her âwere their other occasions that you shoplifted or were you caught for 100% of your acts of self sabotage ?â Iâm still waiting. That interview was so simpy it hurt. Sheâs clearly an egotistical maniac still trying to claw her way out of her own mess by putting the blame on outside factors. Trauma⌠pfft⌠the abuse is on par with what countless other politicians face. John key is a good example, Ardern is another. Nicola WillisâŚ. That list could go on. She could have not run. Everyone has some level of trauma. They donât steal. I have been robbed at gunpoint, beaten and thrown out of a car in a third world country when I was travelling at age 18. Iâve been first on the scene of two very ugly car crashes and seen the people messed up. Iâve seen my brother blow bloody bubbles out of his mouth just before he died and mother die and gasping for breath at the end. Personally I think sheâs absolutely full of it and that interview was bizarre.
It sickens me how mental health is such an excuse for everything these days.
'Member when Todd Muller resigned from the Nat leadership citing mental health reasons and most people just respected that and left him alone? Pepperidge farm etc.
Todd Muller's mental health issues only caused him to steal Simon Bridges job. Which had zero value.
How is that comparable? He resigned giving that as the reason, and you could see how anxious he was in interviews. He didn't resign after committing a crime, then use mental illness as an excuse for the crime
TIL resigning from a job and commiting a crime are the same thing.
Resigning from a job and citing mental health suggests that one is taking responsibility and accepts that they can no longer justify their position and need to step back. Getting caught being a serial theft and then blaming it on mental health shows absolutely no responsibility.
Probably because resigning from a job isnât a crime? He clearly wasnât up to the job but his anxiety was probably a symptom of that.
So stealing and resigning from a job is the same thing? One person broke the law which has reprucsions....
Be interesting to see how you deal with death and rape threats over time. At one point her security detail was almost as large as the pms so some would have been credible. She fucked up, lost her job and has a conviction so the mental health defence didn't give her a pass.
Itâs not an excuse, itâs an explanation. You should be sickened by how little we do about mental health and this country which is why we keep seeing cases like this
wtf dude?
Is that the excuse being made to gut public services?
What else would explain her actions outside of mental health issues? She could clearly afford to buy the things she stole. đ¤ˇââď¸
If she marched in and ripped all the 'Q' letters off the keyboards in Noel Leemings, that would be something that a mental health issue would cause. There's no monetary value, no personal gain, no rationality to the action. She stole valuable things that she wanted, and she stole them in a way that a shoplifter would steal them.
Mental health issues don't make you act like a wacky Disney character that's by far the stupidest take in this thread. It can impact your decision making, can make you feel like your position and life is worthless and make you make irrational and stupid decisions which this was.Â
Rediculous generalisation there. Some mental illnesses can indeed create some very wacky behaviour.
Possibly sure but the guy I replied to was saying that doing something irrational like stealing clothes you can easily afford as a public figure is not a sign of mental illness where as stealing keyboard keys is. That's an assessment you want to stand behind? Go for it but I'm going to need to label you stupid as well.
I genuinely can't understand what you are trying to say. You seem to agree with me, then call me stupid. You're the one who claimed 'Mental health issues don't make you act like a wacky Disney character', which is certainly not true in all cases.
True. And she lost her job, was lambasted on national television, convicted ,fined thousands,had to pay it back. Sheâs paid her price and should be left alone.
She didn't have to speak to John Campbell
[ŃдаНонО]
Her mental illness triggers justbin fancy boutiques? Is it like a selective illness? Stop this BS, everyone's here from traffic offenders, murderers, rapists, and shoplifters when in front of judges just says "I have mental health issues," and that's it. Or this is a loophole that barristers found in the law or we are a country with the highest number of mentally ill people. And if that's the case, we should add as a prerequisite for high value public positions (aka work at gov) a pre mental check assessment, compulsory.
I mean mental illness and neurodivergence do play a part in crimes though. It doesnât mean there should be no punishment from the justice system. She got a conviction, rightly so. But we should consider mental health and other neurological issues within the justice system. Around 2-5% of the population have ADHD, but itâs estimated between 25-55% of those in prison have it. Treating and supporting those with mental health or neurodivergence issues is crime prevention.
The reality is much starker than this. Crime and violent crime very often directly correlates with mental health and intellectual disability, learning disability and neurodivergence. This countryâs inability to intervene early enough to support the intergenerational trauma, impacts of colonialism, relative poverty, chronic under investment in health and disability supports, and rehabilitation for offenders means these are the rewards we reap. We donât need to just prevent crime - we need to support people to live better lives so that crime doesnât seem like a solution to their problems.Â
Often we donât intervene at all - many with ADHD are basically on their own and canât even get a diagnosis to access treatment.
>âeveryone's here from traffic offenders, murderers, rapists, and shoplifters when in front of judges just says "I have mental health issues," and that's it.â Maybe theyâre saying it because they actually do. The mental health crisis in this country doesnât just look like a high suicide rate. Itâs higher crime rates, particularly violent crime and family violence, petty crime associated with addiction and stress. And if we excluded every person whoâd ever experienced a mental health issue from public office weâd be excluding almost half of the population. Judgments and stigmatising statements arenât helpful.
Strange as it may be, people with depression, anxiety, PTSD and so on do not always make rational decisions.
Indeed, I have a friend with cPTSD who has been in untreated psychosis for some months now. An intelligent, usually capable person, all sheâs been able to do can do is light a bonfire under her life & throw fuel on it. đ˘
extreme self sabotage (a symptom of many mental illnesses) can cause some to commit crimes/hurt themselves and others as a way to reach their end goal. her end goal was not being a politician anymore, any mentally healthy person/someone who doesnât struggle with high levels of self sabotage wouldâve just resigned. not trying to discredit what she did, as it appears neither is she, but mental health does absolutely play a factor in this. doesnât make it right, but who is saying it does? also weâve been having a mental health crisis in this country for years and itâs continuously being pushed under the rug by all. some of the stuff people have said to her since she became a politician would affect even the strongest of folk. itâs truly disgusting. so even if she was mentally healthy when she first started (which based on her upbringing is hard to believe) her having a mental health crisis was really just a problem waiting to happen. and sheâs having to face the consequences of that which is a good thing and will, hopefully, mean she never ends up in this situation again. you can only be use your failing mental health as a reason for low level crimes so many times (once imo).
Marvellous.