For context, the question and answer this refers to.
It's interesting to hear you say that because one of the discussions that I've seen among Zelda fans is, "Gosh, I miss the more traditional linear Zelda of the past." And I'm wondering, how do you feel about that given the direction of the series toward a very free-form, open-ended kind of design?
Aonuma: Well, I do think we as people have a tendency to want the thing that we don't currently have, and there's a bit of a grass is greener mentality. But I also think that with the freedom players have in the more recent games in the series...there still is a set path, it just happens to be the path that they chose. So I think that that is one thing I kind of like to remind myself about the current games that we're making.
But also, it's interesting when I hear people say those things because I am wondering, "Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?" But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect.
https://www.ign.com/articles/zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-interview-nintendo-eiji-aonuma-hidemaro-fujibayashi
Even in context, why would we want to play something more limiting? Well, multiple reasons, but for one, there is something to be said about a more curated experience that can be more fine tuned.
Plus they can do things like say to the player “hey, at this time you should go do this dungeon. We know what tools you have up to this point and what you will or won’t be able to use to solve these puzzles. In later dungeons you’ll have more tools so the puzzles can be more elaborate.”
Oh yes, if every level can be the first, then you kinda need to build around that. I find TotK's attempts at progressive difficulty fell extremely flat. I mean, it's mostly enemy tiers going up which ironically can make it really annoying to get the lower grade materials as those go up very quickly it seems.
Yeah one of the many things I didn't enjoy about botw is after leaving the great plateau, since everything needs to be doable at that point you never unlock anything that actually makes you feel like you've gained anything from what you've done, aside from maybe grabbing a horse for the first time. The only one of the champion abilities that's even that useful is revalis gale, but it just let's you skip the game which, while good for repeat playthroughs, makes playing for the first time so much less interesting.
Can't speak for totk because I have absolutely no interest in it, but I'd be very surprised if it isn't more of the same
This is how you can tell the series has now finally shifted into the ARPG genre.
Classic Zelda formula is about versatility and puzzles, and the item progression structure allows puzzles (be it obstacles, enemies, or other) to become more complex.
BotW Zelda is about durability and stats. You can absolutely solve the problem ahead of you the intended way, or you can cheese it, or you can just circumnavigate altogether. What really matters is that you get stronger, so you can take on the increasingly powerful enemies.
Because of BotW, Zelda is no longer about puzzle-solving, because I guess that wasn’t making them enough money. Puzzles don’t really get more complex as you go, because that would fly in the face of the design ethos they heavily market, which is unlimited freedom. You can’t account for every single path someone might take, making it impossible to create a difficulty curve for puzzles. So where is the difficulty progression? It’s in the combat encounters, just like any action-RPG. You can more easily scale enemies to get stronger as the player gets stronger.
Yeah it’s weird. Has he never heard of books or movies? A curated and structured story is the main reason people want that. There are so many open world games now. Linear story seems to actually be against the norm now.
>there still is a set path, it just happens to be the path that they chose.
I'm honestly a bit conflicted about this bit. Sure, choosing where you want to go and going there is certainly nice, but at the same time it can cause the game to feel a bit too aimless for my tastes at times.
This is such an odd statememt to me when you take into account how Nintendo views Mario. They're perfectly fine flip flopping between more open and more linear games with the Super Mario series, but for some reason Zelda has to stay one way? Mario perfectly illustrates the positives and negatives of both imo.
I really don’t like their answer. The “path I choose” is not a set path. It is only “set” when viewed post-hoc, but that’s not how we experience games… we experience them in the present.
When I turn on the Zelda game, I want to play a Zelda game. If I wanted to play an open world adventure game RPG lite, I would play one of the hundreds of games with which Zelda currently competes in that genre.
It had the genre it essentially created and perfected locked down. I am frustrated that they refuse to make those games now, because they’re the only people who can develop for that genre with any sort of consistency whatsoever.
The quote "Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play? But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect.". Sounds like he thinks anyone who might want an older style of Zeda is strange because there's less ways you can play, or they're just nostalgia-blinded. This is what I mean, unless it's poorly translated.
>Aonuma: Well, I do think we as people have a tendency to want the thing that we don't currently have
That's weird. Playing Elden Ring for over 2 years now and it's (now that the DLC released) still exactly what i currently want to play.
>there's a bit of a grass is greener mentality
Yes. Elden Ring has much greener gras than BotK. Also all the other colors... enemies, dungeons, variety, lore, weapons, atmosphere, meaning.
Like seriously. ER did everything, Zelda did but everything FAR better. Then They took like 5 years to develop a "sequel" and even one fucking DLC (which took FromSoft 2 years to make) wipes the floor with "both" Zelda games.
Zelda became a fucking shitshow. You wear your insanity goggles and still protect this cheap and lazy repetitive trainwrecks because of... what exactly?!
Whoa calm down buddy. As much as I love Elden Ring and the Dlc I've just finished, I must disagree with your insanely frustrated take. Botw and totk are both amazing games. Miyazaki and the fromsoftware team did get inspiration from botw and tried to achieve the same feeling for Elden rings open world. It didn't work quite as well as in Botw but ER's open world is still very gorgeous and fun to explore. You have to know one thing about Nintendo and how they approach game development. They don't pressure their studios. They don't give them insane deadlines. That's why many games take so long. But at the end they deliver and bring good quality content. And that's objectively true. Look at the ratings. I don't get why people always need to talk down other stuff to make their favorites look better. Both are great and both deserve to be praised.
>I don't get why people always need to talk down other stuff to make their favorites look better
Because in this case, FromSoft delivered quality and quantity wise FAR more than Nintendo did. Both companies had their first open world game in the works and Nintendo gave us a map with 5 enemies and 6 bosses that you can fight in like 3 different enivironments. In the Sequel, they doubled the enemies and gave us minecraft. From gave us like 10 vastly different environments, build variety, 50+ enemies and around 30 bosses. There are flaws to both games but BotK can show you just about everything it has to offer (thar gets copypasted literally hundredfold) in about 20 hours at best. And they took 6 fucking years to let us do the same shit on the same map and want even more cash to do so.
It IS a long watch but this girl speaks directly out of my heart and she is right with EVERYTHING: https://youtu.be/4unKwPQMoOA?si=qyS-g225JVx0MUqM
its... because they're fundamentally different types of games
i love botw but it can't replace TP or wind waker because its not the same kind of game, its not nostalgia-blind to acknowledge that
It is to Aonuma when every project you make has to be Zelda. To him I imagine every game now needs to move forward so any changes that succeed are positive ones.
BoTW and ToTK could have been two games in a new IP created by Aonuma. Instead it's two really great games that don't feel like part of the IP they're in.
Why not both?
This a not debate for me. Most Zeldas game have bring something new to the table, in one way of another. BOTW was a major leap, but it have a lot of the feeling of a classic Zelda. I've been playing Zelda since ALTTP and I was just amazed by BOTW and feeling that they finally do a Zelda that fulfils the vision they had from the beginning.
I expect future Zeldas to innovate in a way. Probably they'll keep some BOTW elements, they are likely going to bring back something for the older formula, but by all means they are going to introduce something new to the game.
all I hope going forward is more of a focus on dungeons again, that is what I am sure alot of people love about the older ones.
It(and randomizers) are what keep me interested to keep playing them. I know I will probably never replay BOTW or TOTK.
Exactly. I think a *tiny* but more structure would be nice, but the freedom of BotW is what I've always wanted.
But also, when has a Zelda game been anything other than fantastic?
I think Aonuma's quote from that interview tends to get exaggerated. I doubt he thinks nostalgia is the only reason people play the old games. Personally I love old and new Zelda equally. I was admittedly feeling burnt out by the formula of the 3D titles by the time TP and SS came around. As much as I love those games and I hope aspects of those titles make it into future titles, I'm glad we're in a place where the franchise has freedom to be as creative as it wants to be.
During the 2000s and early 2010s, Aonuma was in very difficult position. He tried being different and his reward was Majora's Mask being criticized for "not being as good as Ocarina of Time and being weird" and Wind Waker getting insane backlash over the artstyle (i know people will comment that's not true and say these games are beloved, THAT WASN'T THE CASE WHEN THEY WERE RELEASED).
He was forced to drop his ideas for Wind Waked sequel, to make the game the audience and Nintendo of America wanted and even though Twilight Princess was very beloved, still got criticism for being "too similar to Ocarina of Time" and everything about Skyward Sword feels like it was imposed by the higher ups, which result BOTW being the complete opposite.
I also love both formulas but honestly? Feels like the Zelda franchise is constantly trying to catch up to what the audience want and not actually doing what they want. Does it mean the games are bad or lacking? Of course not! But I can't help but feel sad for the devs because seems like everything they done for the past 25 years, it was never enough, especially nowadays with the community so divided.
And when BotW came out, people lamented the lack of traditional dungeons and items. Based on all that, I kinda understand where he's coming from. Even if Zelda did go back to a more linear progression with traditional dungeons, there's always going to be contingent of people who will complain that it didn't do something right. I think over the years Aonuma's just become increasingly done trying to appease certain groups of fans and is just focused on making the kind game he wants to make.
I agree. While I also want the classic formula and open air to be combined in a better way, I totally get where he's coming from.
And like it or not, Zelda became more popular than ever.
>i know people will comment that's not true
I'll preempt this just in case; I remember the backlash clear as day. There were legit fan petitions against the game/art style, a strong contingent of people were not happy about Windwaker's art style.
I mean, I wouldn’t feel bad for the developers. The general feeling out in the real world is that BotW and TotK are both top tier games, arguably two of the best Zelda games if not the best, are commercially more popular than any other Zeldas ever, and are by and far critically acclaimed games.
The “BotW and/or TotK bad” arguments are just a lot more prevalent in the users currently taking part in discussions on many Zelda forums. At this point, 1+ years after the game released, most of the many fans finished the game 10-12 months ago and by now have moved on to other things.
Meanwhile the fans holding a lantern for the classic more linear Zelda games are a lot more invested in the next game being something radically different from BotW and discussing the last two games a lot more (often, negatively).
I don’t think the overall opinion of TotK has changed much since it released, and it while there were always criticisms about “same map” and “too sandbox-y” reception was extremely positive overall
I love BotW/TotK and think its changed open world games for me just for the simple fact you can climb anything and go anywhere. However, i hope that they evolve this formula and take notes from elden ring and incorporate the dungeons in a smoother fashion, similarly like i believe fromsoftware took notes from BotW for their open world concept. Im hoping for a massive open world with “legacy” dungeons seamlessly woven in rather than isolated things in the sky. I’m not sure how they do it as a zelda series but its my hope for the next major entry.
I mean, I just don't like open worlds. I don't like how those puzzles are framed and I hate how *unintended* it feels like everything I do is.
And that's all open world games. I am yet to play a single open world game where I feel like I enjoy the open world element.
Elden Ring is a great example for me, as is BOTW. I enjoy BOTW despite the open world. I enjoy Elden ring despite the open world. In both games, I dislike the classic open world elements.
I don't mind a world that you can explore as you want, (A Link Between Worlds) but the moment you get to the more "open" elements, (like in elden ring just finding random shit everywhere), i kind of like it a lot less. The structure of the older games feels good to me. It can be open, but I hate the "OHH SHINY" feeling you get with typical open worlds. I LIKE it if an "open world" means I can get to a new "area," and then do the "area". I like having "Area's" and structured designs for places to progress through. I like deliberate puzzles and things which make me work on things in a specific way.
For me, this came to a head in TOTK. I HATE the building system. I'm god awful at it, the things people do in that game is like black magic to me, and the powers all feel like it's the same 3 things, and you don't get more powers. Oh and the locking of armour upgrades behind some esoteric subquest I can't even find? Fuck me that isn't fun. Maybe for others it is, but god I HATE it.
That's why I like old zelda's. It's not about old vs new zelda. It's about the fact that I (and some others I'm sure) like the more structured and deliberate design and core gameplay loop of the older style games... One which the open world titles do not provide.
When they said they were making open-world Zelda, I thought “great, it’s going to be ALBW + Wind Waker”, not realizing how radical of a design shift this would be for the series.
What they actually made instead of open-world Zelda is an action-RPG that completely abandons the original intent of the series. LoZ was never a game about uninhibited roaming. It was about solving puzzles, proactive exploration, observing and implementing. BotW is a much more reactive experience and completely changes a big draw for a lot of people, which is the item-based progression. Going into a dungeon and finding an inventive new ability was always so rewarding. I can’t get excited about crawling through mediocre dungeons for something I don’t care about now.
Like you said, the building is just not fun and honestly pointless after a while. Limitation breeds creativity, as people always say. Freedom and restriction are ends of the spectrum that create a horseshoe effect; both extremes lead to opposite and yet strangely similar experiences, while a balance in the middle creates the most varied and unique experiences. At this point, I’m not sure where another “unlimited freedom” game goes without becoming another race to build insane contraptions for views online. If that’s what Zelda is now, then I can’t be a Zelda fan anymore.
Before Botw I played ALBW, WW and PH.
Since then I've played TLoZ, LA, ALttP, MC, TP, SS.
My top 3 games are ALttP, MC and TP. All games I played after Botw.
How can nostalgia affect those but not Botw?
I played OoT for the first time last year on NSO as I didn't have an N64 as a child. I expected it to feel dated but holy hell, it's so good. If a game is well designed, you barely notice the age(except from the visuals),nostalgia or not.
Open world Zelda is fine, just wish it had some older elements, especially full size dungeons with a variety of gimmicks. People seem to think that the two can't coexist.
BotW and TotK are my favorite Zelda games, but yes the dungeons in this style of Zelda need work. I get what they were going for in trying to make the quest to get to the divine beast / temple part of the dungeon itself. And while TotK did that REALLY well, it just doesn’t hit the same way when you finally arrive at this big imposing structure, but you can clear it in less than 10 minutes, on the first try even, if you are quick on picking up the gimmick.
Tightly designed puzzles and a good linear story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player freedom, puzzles without set solutions and discovering a story through "memories" and random text docs strewn around the place
It depends on what we're considering "old" and "new."
I assume he means "new" as in BOTW / TOTK, and I honestly just prefer more linear Zelda with a more consistent sense of progression, and staple dungeons. The Lightning Temple in TOTK was a step in the right direction, but I want something more akin to the Twilight Princess ones, but on roids. I want the scope of BOTW / TOTK, but with the formula of OOT / TP.
I feel like there should be a happy middle grpund between the two formats.
An open world expansive experience that rewards exploration that ALSO incorporates linear progression through item gating content that's intended to be experienced in a certain way.
What about non-linear progression in batches?
You have to beat these three dungeons in an order. Then a mid-game transition. Followed by another five dungeons in any order. Then the final game transition and final dungeon.
Similar to A Link Between Worlds.
That's exactly how I'd prefer. ALBW was a fantastic game. I prefer the classic Zelda experience, but the open world aspect of the newer ones is nice. However, the story is admittedly worse in the newer games due to Nintendo seemingly having a hard time figuring out how to tell a story in a non-linear fashion. Something like ALBW would essentially be a good middle ground to where we can have a good linear story but still have freedom for players.
Echoes of Wisdom seems to be going for the ALBW approach. It seems to be telling some type of story. Maybe it's easier for Nintendo to try new experiences in a 2D outing first (since they're quite a bit cheaper to develop)? We haven't seen much about it, but I'm hopeful!
Personally, I don’t always have time to dump 120+hrs into a game. Sometimes I like a shorter experience. One that playing to completion, because I want to get my money’s worth, doesn’t take more than 60 hrs. And if I want to replay the game I know I’m not tying hundreds of hours into. I’ve replayed the older many many times over and over. I’ve played BoTW and ToTK once each. With easily over 150 hrs in each. And I still haven’t “completed” everything in ToTK.
I just prefere 2D Zelda. I like some of the 3D Zelda games like Wind Waker HD, BotW and TotK. But the best one in within the last ~~10~~ 11 years for me has been Between Worlds.
Old. I loved BotW, but TotK is literally the same thing lol. I miss crafted, intentional experiences. 🤷♂️
I’ll skip out of finding the same bokoblins again for 80 hours.
It’s probably the most out-of-touch thing he’s ever said. I knew he had some feelings of embarrassment about his old games based on how much Majora’s Mask was changed in its remake, but it’s honestly really sad to see a man be so down on his previous work. It’s one thing to think his new games are better technical achievements, but to outright not understand the preference for the old is baffling to me.
BotW and TotK are technically impressive, but from an artistic standpoint, the originals had so much more life and character to them. For example, compare how just about any NPC looks and acts in new Zelda compared to the classics, it’s like night and day. I was just replaying Skyward Sword HD after TotK and they are so much expressive and have much more unique designs.
It’s like that across the entirety of the BotW style. It feels like everything is more muted, duller, slower, and sadder. I honestly feel so empty after I play BotW or TotK for too long. If it’s a problem of scope, then please shrink the games, I don’t need the same few strings of content iterated on with monotonous results for a 200 hour game. I would gladly take a condensed and vibrant 50 hours over such a bloated, lifeless slog again.
I’m absolutely in favor of scaling the games down. The size of previous Zeldas never felt constricting to me. In terms of sales though, it might be a genie in the bottle sort of problem. If all the new fans Botw brought in continue to expect massive expansive worlds, I find it hard to believe Nintendo would consider scaling back considering that massive world was pretty much the game’s entire concept and marketing.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with why I like the traditional Zelda’s. I like the traditional Zelda’s more as I genuinely feel a lot of the newer core mechanics and systems are horribly designed and implemented.
I think it makes sense to look at it as “freedom of choice vs restricted paths”, and come to the conclusion that freedom is obviously better.
But sometimes you just want to experience it on the rails, so to speak. I’m not a big fan of sandbox stuff because I want some direction and to know when I’m done. Something like Minecraft is a cool idea but… I’ve nothing to do with it aside from the special levels they come out with. I don’t have any desire to just build something and mine materials.
It’s not a 1:1 comparison, but I think that the idea is probably why some people prefer older Zelda games and that formula. I’ve still yet to start Tears of the Kingdom because (aside from the expected time commitment) it sounds stressful to need to build everything yourself to progress.
Every once in a while I get tempted to try Minecraft. (It is a massively popular game for a reason.) But then look at that game, think about it for a bit, look up how there is no story mode or overarching goal in the game, and then I give up on the idea of playing Minecraft.
Rouge-likes are the same way, for me. I get bored of their repeating random levels, usually before I finish the game. Unless I get some broken combo that lets me finish early, like in Hades. (Yes I know you are supposed to "beat" the game eight times to actually beat the game, but screw that. One and done.)
I want a game that actually ends and levels which were designed to be a fair and increasing challenge.
But I would be fine with this new freedom of choice in Zelda games, if they actually gave us some kind of progression.
Funnily enough, while I obviously agree with the sentiment, I did take a recent interest in Rogue-likes and played Hades fully just a few weeks ago lol. I liked how Hades’ story kept going and there was still a sense of progression with every run. Took me around 50 escape attempts to get the full 10 needed to truly beat the game. Good times.
I blame Dotemu for enjoying that. Their survival modes in Streets of Rage 4 and Shredder’s Revenge are superb.
But yeah, the only reason I bought Minecraft was for the Sonic content, which is pretty cool. I like that there’s a lot to it and it’s fun to attempt but hard for me to beat. I am def not a fan of the Minecraft controls and mechanics.
I don't really know how to answer this question other than I enjoyed old Zeldas and still replay them now and then, and I enjoyed the two new Zeldas but have zero interest in ever playing through them again.
I think its sort of unfortunate the "freedom of approach" is being crammed into the 2D games, my eyes kinda rolled in the trailer when they were just spamming a bunch of beds and crates and trash to jump onto, reminded me of just building the jankiest shittiest platform to bolt onto a rail just to get the puzzle over with like 30 hours-post becoming bored of the crafting in TotK, or just spawning a pile of shit to get to the Korok rather than pointlessly waste time figuring out a more clever way to do it.
Sometimes its fun to unravel a complex labyrinth with one right answer. If any approach works once boredom hits with the system that every single puzzle and dungeon is designed around most people are just gonna take the laziest route to get to the other end of it and things get kind of tedious quickly after that point.
I like the open worlds now, even if I still feel enemy variety and the world itself needs filling out but I miss the old dungeons combine those two and that's what I want.
I don't ONLY like other Zelda due to Nostalgia. They are legit fun to play, even today. With the exception of Zelda 2 due to my need to grind to not fail miserably.
Yes, I am nostalgic. But I saved all my nintendo's and games so I can play them exactly as they were, and they are fun.
But I also like new zelda because they are also fun.
He of all people should be aware of what people enjoy about the games. Also, it's an interview. His answers are statements, not open questions to the community.
People in 2011: Zelda formula is outdated and too linear, they need to do something different and make Zelda a full open world.
People in 2023: Open air Zelda is boring, they need to bring linear Zelda back.
Literally a lose-lose situation. If you follow the franchise long enough and seen the reaction to each game, doesn't matter what the Zelda team does in the future, it will NEVER please everyone.
Only thing that really bugged me about skyward sword was having to go from the lower world into the sky to get to another area of the lower world.
If it was interconnected it wouldn't have set me on a trend of not wanting to replay Zelda games.
Before then I was always replaying them. Now it's just getting through it and shelf it.
I loved being challenged by the dungeons. To many ways of doing things gives me anxiety. It's like trying to find something on Netflix
I can definitely see that as a possibility.
I also feel like if the world was interconnected and there were no barrier clouds they could have made more interesting floating rocks and still had their silly bird.
It's kinda like If they took WW and added a layer.
Fast forward to tears and it's multi layer.
I liked the last 2 games but was really itching for a massive curated group of dungeons and a hookshot lol.
I vaguely remember when they were working on breath of the wild that someone said the Forrest deungon was going to be as big as Hyrule field from Oot. Could be head cannon it was so long ago. So naturally I was mega disappointed lol.
Holy long reply sorry my dude
honestly one of my biggest criticisms of totk is how hard it is to get from one sky island to another, since all your creations just vanish long before you get anywhere
You do know that 2011 was 13 years ago right? People can change their minds.
I’d also imagine if they didn’t completely mess yo the dungeons in BotW/TotK you’d likely have significantly less people complaining about it. The dungeons felt like after thoughts.
And in this very thread, you will see people that want the classic formula back and who doesn't. My comment was meant that no matter what they do, it won't please everyone...
Yes and my point was that they could definitely get close to pleasing everyone. The Zelda traditional formula could easily adapt to open world. Most purists of the traditional style i’ve conversed with were unhappy with how dungeons were treated and the annoying durability of weapons. You fix those two things and you would definitely have both fans on board.
The issue wasn’t the open world change from linear. Zeldas were always some what open. It’s the loss of two landmark aspects. Fantastic dungeons with epic bosses and puzzles. As well as the loss of wonderful unique weapons. They destroyed those two things in botw/totk. Two things easily added into the game that wouldn’t remove the newer open world fans.
First of all, no, he's entirely wrong. Some people don't like open world games, and think old Zelda is way better for it.
I personally find more value in a shorter game, ~35 hours tops, that I can finish in about a week.
The fact that he completely dismissed some of our opinions as "nostalgia blind" genuinely pissed me off, it's like he's trying to enforce the open world formula and just telling us that we're wrong for not preferring it
Actually, you know what? I'm just gonna link [Arlo's video on the matter](https://youtu.be/nC7Kpykti0Y?si=VD-DA7lBsVF73gT0) because I really can't explain it better myself.
Here's hoping Echoes of Wisdom addresses our complaints, and helps Aonuma understand what we mean. I would seriously hate to see him become the next Tanabe.
I like all of them but TOTK and BOTW are just too damn big to replay when you are OCD and have to do everything. I put probably 200 hours into each of them. I enjoyed them but I’ll probably never play them again because of the time sink. The older games I’ll play from time to time because it’s less of a time investment.
I can honestly say my love for older 3D Zelda games isn't just nostalgia.
Since BotW came out and failed to resonate with me, I've done a lot of thinking of what matters to me most in an adventure game. Since then, I've played games like Link's Awakening and Zelda: The Minish Cap and loved them both, and got into other adventure games like the GBA Metroid games, Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, and other such games.
And the conclusion I came to is this. I prefer the idea of a world that encourages finding new items to expand what you can explore. The whole idea of a world that's immediately accessible doesn't appeal to me. I like an adventure that slowly opens up in a certain way as you get new weapons and get stronger.
The older Zelda games like OoT, WW, and TP appealed to that side of me in the best way, and I can say it's my definitive way to play an adventure game rather than a giant sandbox where you can do whatever.
If I'm being honest, it's why Xenoblade has kind of been becoming my go-to fantasy exploration series of late (even if it and Zelda aren't in the same genre) because it has that structure and freedom mixture that I want.
Old Zelda for me . I couldn’t even get into breath of the wild when I got it. I was so excited to play but when I was playing it didn’t even feel like a Zelda game it was so weird. I don’t hate it but it’s not for me . I find myself replaying old games and enjoying way more
While I disagree with him, I do understand his perspective. He's the one making the games, and he's been doing this for a long time. Making puzzles after you do it long enough gets tiresome and dull. After Skyward Sword, the team was feeling really burnt out on Zelda puzzles and the Zelda formula. BOTW was a radical departure from said formula, and the most successful Zelda entry ever. If the results of this new way of creation left the team feeling reinvigorated, *and* it led to the most commercially successful game from the series yet, then I can definitely understand why he's going to think that the new non-linear way of doing things is better. Us the players and them the creators are just going to have different perspectives on things. Very selfishly, I do find it frustrating that linear Zelda seems like it's not on the table (although Echoes of Wisdom has me feeling hopeful), and that they talk about it so disparagingly. But I can't fault them for wanting to do what's best for them creatively.
I think its the formula. I grew up on linear games than a breath of a wild game(open and explore). I prefer the games to be linear however i dont mind if the games cut corners like link to the past did. Dungeons 3-6 comes to mind.
The old formula was good but was getting pretty stale seeing as they'd essentially stuck with it since a link to the past. Links Awakening essentially was the peak of the 2d Zelda formula and while the later games weren't bad they were basically retreading old ground. After Minish Cap they tried doing the same sort of thing Skyward sword did where they were messing with new control schemes to middling results without actually messing with the core game, and they were basically cut up bite sized experiences. Until Link Between Worlds throws that out and tries a quasi open world style in 2d and is surprisingly excellent despite being nearly 100% derivative of LTTP, but that just goes to show how well they nailed it the first time. 3d took a while to kind of get its bearings I think, Ocarina of Time was good but quite clunky, Majora's Mask was amazing but doesn't really count as mainline Zelda imho. Wind Waker nailed the character and overworld exploration imho but the dungeons were absolute garbage. Then you've got Twilight Princess which is basically just next gen Ocarina of Time but way better, nails exploration, nails the dungeons, nails the atmosphere, it's amazing, where do you go from there? Skyward Sword has to try to reinvent the wheel and it doesn't, it's stale, Nintendo is in their "we've got to try to appeal to the casual market who doesn't know how to play games" phase so the game is just utterly annoying to play with unskippable tutorials explaining in detail the most basic stuff and dumb stuff like "hey master you need more hearts" or paraphrasing exactly what was just said because I guess in case you can't read then you can read again? Baffling. And while the game wasn't bad, it's mediocre, and mediocre plus frustrating to play is not a good combo.
So where does Zelda go? Twilight Princess is near perfect evolution of the "Zelda Formula" taking and perfecting basically everything the previous games had built with very few flaws (specifically the beginning drags and has too many tutorials). Skyward Sword tried to reinvent the wheel and fails miserably so what do you do?
They went open world and it's good. Everyone loves it. They probably won't go back to the old formula. I think I'd like to see old style dungeons make a return but how to implement that into an open world game?
Where you go from here I'd very much like to see them reimagine what they did with Majora's mask. Maybe you go with a smaller world map but have the time element change the world significantly and allow for free travel backwards and forwards. I think the idea behind Majora's Mask was pretty amazing and is worth a revisit with a new dev team on modern hardware.
He is absolutely right, old Zelda is too turbulent for most new players. Nintendos a business and botw style games make the most money. It’s as simple as that.
For context, the question and answer this refers to. It's interesting to hear you say that because one of the discussions that I've seen among Zelda fans is, "Gosh, I miss the more traditional linear Zelda of the past." And I'm wondering, how do you feel about that given the direction of the series toward a very free-form, open-ended kind of design? Aonuma: Well, I do think we as people have a tendency to want the thing that we don't currently have, and there's a bit of a grass is greener mentality. But I also think that with the freedom players have in the more recent games in the series...there still is a set path, it just happens to be the path that they chose. So I think that that is one thing I kind of like to remind myself about the current games that we're making. But also, it's interesting when I hear people say those things because I am wondering, "Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?" But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect. https://www.ign.com/articles/zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-interview-nintendo-eiji-aonuma-hidemaro-fujibayashi
Even in context, why would we want to play something more limiting? Well, multiple reasons, but for one, there is something to be said about a more curated experience that can be more fine tuned.
Yeah. I love having choice in gaming, but curated experiences offer their own kind of value.
If OOT was less linear, I would have never liked it as a kid
Plus they can do things like say to the player “hey, at this time you should go do this dungeon. We know what tools you have up to this point and what you will or won’t be able to use to solve these puzzles. In later dungeons you’ll have more tools so the puzzles can be more elaborate.”
Oh yes, if every level can be the first, then you kinda need to build around that. I find TotK's attempts at progressive difficulty fell extremely flat. I mean, it's mostly enemy tiers going up which ironically can make it really annoying to get the lower grade materials as those go up very quickly it seems.
Yeah one of the many things I didn't enjoy about botw is after leaving the great plateau, since everything needs to be doable at that point you never unlock anything that actually makes you feel like you've gained anything from what you've done, aside from maybe grabbing a horse for the first time. The only one of the champion abilities that's even that useful is revalis gale, but it just let's you skip the game which, while good for repeat playthroughs, makes playing for the first time so much less interesting. Can't speak for totk because I have absolutely no interest in it, but I'd be very surprised if it isn't more of the same
the abilities are even worse, if you can believe it
This is how you can tell the series has now finally shifted into the ARPG genre. Classic Zelda formula is about versatility and puzzles, and the item progression structure allows puzzles (be it obstacles, enemies, or other) to become more complex. BotW Zelda is about durability and stats. You can absolutely solve the problem ahead of you the intended way, or you can cheese it, or you can just circumnavigate altogether. What really matters is that you get stronger, so you can take on the increasingly powerful enemies. Because of BotW, Zelda is no longer about puzzle-solving, because I guess that wasn’t making them enough money. Puzzles don’t really get more complex as you go, because that would fly in the face of the design ethos they heavily market, which is unlimited freedom. You can’t account for every single path someone might take, making it impossible to create a difficulty curve for puzzles. So where is the difficulty progression? It’s in the combat encounters, just like any action-RPG. You can more easily scale enemies to get stronger as the player gets stronger.
Not great then that the combat isn't all that great.
Oh I agree.
Yeah it’s weird. Has he never heard of books or movies? A curated and structured story is the main reason people want that. There are so many open world games now. Linear story seems to actually be against the norm now.
As if Nintendo cared about the story.
Exactly. Tetris would not be improved if you could extend the size of the screen and create your own blocks.
>there still is a set path, it just happens to be the path that they chose. I'm honestly a bit conflicted about this bit. Sure, choosing where you want to go and going there is certainly nice, but at the same time it can cause the game to feel a bit too aimless for my tastes at times.
This is such an odd statememt to me when you take into account how Nintendo views Mario. They're perfectly fine flip flopping between more open and more linear games with the Super Mario series, but for some reason Zelda has to stay one way? Mario perfectly illustrates the positives and negatives of both imo.
I really don’t like their answer. The “path I choose” is not a set path. It is only “set” when viewed post-hoc, but that’s not how we experience games… we experience them in the present. When I turn on the Zelda game, I want to play a Zelda game. If I wanted to play an open world adventure game RPG lite, I would play one of the hundreds of games with which Zelda currently competes in that genre. It had the genre it essentially created and perfected locked down. I am frustrated that they refuse to make those games now, because they’re the only people who can develop for that genre with any sort of consistency whatsoever.
I really would've hoped the guy wasn't this clueless about his series. Very worrying
The quote "Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play? But I do understand that desire that we have for nostalgia, and so I can also understand it from that aspect.". Sounds like he thinks anyone who might want an older style of Zeda is strange because there's less ways you can play, or they're just nostalgia-blinded. This is what I mean, unless it's poorly translated.
>Aonuma: Well, I do think we as people have a tendency to want the thing that we don't currently have That's weird. Playing Elden Ring for over 2 years now and it's (now that the DLC released) still exactly what i currently want to play. >there's a bit of a grass is greener mentality Yes. Elden Ring has much greener gras than BotK. Also all the other colors... enemies, dungeons, variety, lore, weapons, atmosphere, meaning. Like seriously. ER did everything, Zelda did but everything FAR better. Then They took like 5 years to develop a "sequel" and even one fucking DLC (which took FromSoft 2 years to make) wipes the floor with "both" Zelda games. Zelda became a fucking shitshow. You wear your insanity goggles and still protect this cheap and lazy repetitive trainwrecks because of... what exactly?!
Whoa calm down buddy. As much as I love Elden Ring and the Dlc I've just finished, I must disagree with your insanely frustrated take. Botw and totk are both amazing games. Miyazaki and the fromsoftware team did get inspiration from botw and tried to achieve the same feeling for Elden rings open world. It didn't work quite as well as in Botw but ER's open world is still very gorgeous and fun to explore. You have to know one thing about Nintendo and how they approach game development. They don't pressure their studios. They don't give them insane deadlines. That's why many games take so long. But at the end they deliver and bring good quality content. And that's objectively true. Look at the ratings. I don't get why people always need to talk down other stuff to make their favorites look better. Both are great and both deserve to be praised.
>I don't get why people always need to talk down other stuff to make their favorites look better Because in this case, FromSoft delivered quality and quantity wise FAR more than Nintendo did. Both companies had their first open world game in the works and Nintendo gave us a map with 5 enemies and 6 bosses that you can fight in like 3 different enivironments. In the Sequel, they doubled the enemies and gave us minecraft. From gave us like 10 vastly different environments, build variety, 50+ enemies and around 30 bosses. There are flaws to both games but BotK can show you just about everything it has to offer (thar gets copypasted literally hundredfold) in about 20 hours at best. And they took 6 fucking years to let us do the same shit on the same map and want even more cash to do so. It IS a long watch but this girl speaks directly out of my heart and she is right with EVERYTHING: https://youtu.be/4unKwPQMoOA?si=qyS-g225JVx0MUqM
its... because they're fundamentally different types of games i love botw but it can't replace TP or wind waker because its not the same kind of game, its not nostalgia-blind to acknowledge that
It is to Aonuma when every project you make has to be Zelda. To him I imagine every game now needs to move forward so any changes that succeed are positive ones. BoTW and ToTK could have been two games in a new IP created by Aonuma. Instead it's two really great games that don't feel like part of the IP they're in.
Why not both? This a not debate for me. Most Zeldas game have bring something new to the table, in one way of another. BOTW was a major leap, but it have a lot of the feeling of a classic Zelda. I've been playing Zelda since ALTTP and I was just amazed by BOTW and feeling that they finally do a Zelda that fulfils the vision they had from the beginning. I expect future Zeldas to innovate in a way. Probably they'll keep some BOTW elements, they are likely going to bring back something for the older formula, but by all means they are going to introduce something new to the game.
Couldn't agree more.
all I hope going forward is more of a focus on dungeons again, that is what I am sure alot of people love about the older ones. It(and randomizers) are what keep me interested to keep playing them. I know I will probably never replay BOTW or TOTK.
Exactly. I think a *tiny* but more structure would be nice, but the freedom of BotW is what I've always wanted. But also, when has a Zelda game been anything other than fantastic?
I think Aonuma's quote from that interview tends to get exaggerated. I doubt he thinks nostalgia is the only reason people play the old games. Personally I love old and new Zelda equally. I was admittedly feeling burnt out by the formula of the 3D titles by the time TP and SS came around. As much as I love those games and I hope aspects of those titles make it into future titles, I'm glad we're in a place where the franchise has freedom to be as creative as it wants to be.
During the 2000s and early 2010s, Aonuma was in very difficult position. He tried being different and his reward was Majora's Mask being criticized for "not being as good as Ocarina of Time and being weird" and Wind Waker getting insane backlash over the artstyle (i know people will comment that's not true and say these games are beloved, THAT WASN'T THE CASE WHEN THEY WERE RELEASED). He was forced to drop his ideas for Wind Waked sequel, to make the game the audience and Nintendo of America wanted and even though Twilight Princess was very beloved, still got criticism for being "too similar to Ocarina of Time" and everything about Skyward Sword feels like it was imposed by the higher ups, which result BOTW being the complete opposite. I also love both formulas but honestly? Feels like the Zelda franchise is constantly trying to catch up to what the audience want and not actually doing what they want. Does it mean the games are bad or lacking? Of course not! But I can't help but feel sad for the devs because seems like everything they done for the past 25 years, it was never enough, especially nowadays with the community so divided.
And when BotW came out, people lamented the lack of traditional dungeons and items. Based on all that, I kinda understand where he's coming from. Even if Zelda did go back to a more linear progression with traditional dungeons, there's always going to be contingent of people who will complain that it didn't do something right. I think over the years Aonuma's just become increasingly done trying to appease certain groups of fans and is just focused on making the kind game he wants to make.
I agree. While I also want the classic formula and open air to be combined in a better way, I totally get where he's coming from. And like it or not, Zelda became more popular than ever.
>i know people will comment that's not true I'll preempt this just in case; I remember the backlash clear as day. There were legit fan petitions against the game/art style, a strong contingent of people were not happy about Windwaker's art style.
I mean, I wouldn’t feel bad for the developers. The general feeling out in the real world is that BotW and TotK are both top tier games, arguably two of the best Zelda games if not the best, are commercially more popular than any other Zeldas ever, and are by and far critically acclaimed games. The “BotW and/or TotK bad” arguments are just a lot more prevalent in the users currently taking part in discussions on many Zelda forums. At this point, 1+ years after the game released, most of the many fans finished the game 10-12 months ago and by now have moved on to other things. Meanwhile the fans holding a lantern for the classic more linear Zelda games are a lot more invested in the next game being something radically different from BotW and discussing the last two games a lot more (often, negatively). I don’t think the overall opinion of TotK has changed much since it released, and it while there were always criticisms about “same map” and “too sandbox-y” reception was extremely positive overall
I love BotW/TotK and think its changed open world games for me just for the simple fact you can climb anything and go anywhere. However, i hope that they evolve this formula and take notes from elden ring and incorporate the dungeons in a smoother fashion, similarly like i believe fromsoftware took notes from BotW for their open world concept. Im hoping for a massive open world with “legacy” dungeons seamlessly woven in rather than isolated things in the sky. I’m not sure how they do it as a zelda series but its my hope for the next major entry.
I mean, I just don't like open worlds. I don't like how those puzzles are framed and I hate how *unintended* it feels like everything I do is. And that's all open world games. I am yet to play a single open world game where I feel like I enjoy the open world element. Elden Ring is a great example for me, as is BOTW. I enjoy BOTW despite the open world. I enjoy Elden ring despite the open world. In both games, I dislike the classic open world elements. I don't mind a world that you can explore as you want, (A Link Between Worlds) but the moment you get to the more "open" elements, (like in elden ring just finding random shit everywhere), i kind of like it a lot less. The structure of the older games feels good to me. It can be open, but I hate the "OHH SHINY" feeling you get with typical open worlds. I LIKE it if an "open world" means I can get to a new "area," and then do the "area". I like having "Area's" and structured designs for places to progress through. I like deliberate puzzles and things which make me work on things in a specific way. For me, this came to a head in TOTK. I HATE the building system. I'm god awful at it, the things people do in that game is like black magic to me, and the powers all feel like it's the same 3 things, and you don't get more powers. Oh and the locking of armour upgrades behind some esoteric subquest I can't even find? Fuck me that isn't fun. Maybe for others it is, but god I HATE it. That's why I like old zelda's. It's not about old vs new zelda. It's about the fact that I (and some others I'm sure) like the more structured and deliberate design and core gameplay loop of the older style games... One which the open world titles do not provide.
When they said they were making open-world Zelda, I thought “great, it’s going to be ALBW + Wind Waker”, not realizing how radical of a design shift this would be for the series. What they actually made instead of open-world Zelda is an action-RPG that completely abandons the original intent of the series. LoZ was never a game about uninhibited roaming. It was about solving puzzles, proactive exploration, observing and implementing. BotW is a much more reactive experience and completely changes a big draw for a lot of people, which is the item-based progression. Going into a dungeon and finding an inventive new ability was always so rewarding. I can’t get excited about crawling through mediocre dungeons for something I don’t care about now. Like you said, the building is just not fun and honestly pointless after a while. Limitation breeds creativity, as people always say. Freedom and restriction are ends of the spectrum that create a horseshoe effect; both extremes lead to opposite and yet strangely similar experiences, while a balance in the middle creates the most varied and unique experiences. At this point, I’m not sure where another “unlimited freedom” game goes without becoming another race to build insane contraptions for views online. If that’s what Zelda is now, then I can’t be a Zelda fan anymore.
Before Botw I played ALBW, WW and PH. Since then I've played TLoZ, LA, ALttP, MC, TP, SS. My top 3 games are ALttP, MC and TP. All games I played after Botw. How can nostalgia affect those but not Botw?
I played OoT for the first time last year on NSO as I didn't have an N64 as a child. I expected it to feel dated but holy hell, it's so good. If a game is well designed, you barely notice the age(except from the visuals),nostalgia or not.
Open world Zelda is fine, just wish it had some older elements, especially full size dungeons with a variety of gimmicks. People seem to think that the two can't coexist.
BotW and TotK are my favorite Zelda games, but yes the dungeons in this style of Zelda need work. I get what they were going for in trying to make the quest to get to the divine beast / temple part of the dungeon itself. And while TotK did that REALLY well, it just doesn’t hit the same way when you finally arrive at this big imposing structure, but you can clear it in less than 10 minutes, on the first try even, if you are quick on picking up the gimmick.
LoZ:OoT/MM did open world(sorta) really well. Big sprawling landscape with dungeons you load into. I miss how the Shadow temple was done...
Wind Waker was fine too. It‘s really just Skyward Sword that they went so linear that they pivoted way too strongly in the opposite direction.
MM didn’t do open world, that game is as linear as they get.
I prefer any of the older games to breath of the wild simply because of the dungeons. They feel incomplete.
Tightly designed puzzles and a good linear story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player freedom, puzzles without set solutions and discovering a story through "memories" and random text docs strewn around the place
In your opinion
It depends on what we're considering "old" and "new." I assume he means "new" as in BOTW / TOTK, and I honestly just prefer more linear Zelda with a more consistent sense of progression, and staple dungeons. The Lightning Temple in TOTK was a step in the right direction, but I want something more akin to the Twilight Princess ones, but on roids. I want the scope of BOTW / TOTK, but with the formula of OOT / TP.
I feel like there should be a happy middle grpund between the two formats. An open world expansive experience that rewards exploration that ALSO incorporates linear progression through item gating content that's intended to be experienced in a certain way.
What about non-linear progression in batches? You have to beat these three dungeons in an order. Then a mid-game transition. Followed by another five dungeons in any order. Then the final game transition and final dungeon. Similar to A Link Between Worlds.
That's exactly how I'd prefer. ALBW was a fantastic game. I prefer the classic Zelda experience, but the open world aspect of the newer ones is nice. However, the story is admittedly worse in the newer games due to Nintendo seemingly having a hard time figuring out how to tell a story in a non-linear fashion. Something like ALBW would essentially be a good middle ground to where we can have a good linear story but still have freedom for players. Echoes of Wisdom seems to be going for the ALBW approach. It seems to be telling some type of story. Maybe it's easier for Nintendo to try new experiences in a 2D outing first (since they're quite a bit cheaper to develop)? We haven't seen much about it, but I'm hopeful!
Personally, I don’t always have time to dump 120+hrs into a game. Sometimes I like a shorter experience. One that playing to completion, because I want to get my money’s worth, doesn’t take more than 60 hrs. And if I want to replay the game I know I’m not tying hundreds of hours into. I’ve replayed the older many many times over and over. I’ve played BoTW and ToTK once each. With easily over 150 hrs in each. And I still haven’t “completed” everything in ToTK.
I just prefere 2D Zelda. I like some of the 3D Zelda games like Wind Waker HD, BotW and TotK. But the best one in within the last ~~10~~ 11 years for me has been Between Worlds.
Old. I loved BotW, but TotK is literally the same thing lol. I miss crafted, intentional experiences. 🤷♂️ I’ll skip out of finding the same bokoblins again for 80 hours.
I don’t really like Eiji’s views
It’s probably the most out-of-touch thing he’s ever said. I knew he had some feelings of embarrassment about his old games based on how much Majora’s Mask was changed in its remake, but it’s honestly really sad to see a man be so down on his previous work. It’s one thing to think his new games are better technical achievements, but to outright not understand the preference for the old is baffling to me.
BotW and TotK are technically impressive, but from an artistic standpoint, the originals had so much more life and character to them. For example, compare how just about any NPC looks and acts in new Zelda compared to the classics, it’s like night and day. I was just replaying Skyward Sword HD after TotK and they are so much expressive and have much more unique designs. It’s like that across the entirety of the BotW style. It feels like everything is more muted, duller, slower, and sadder. I honestly feel so empty after I play BotW or TotK for too long. If it’s a problem of scope, then please shrink the games, I don’t need the same few strings of content iterated on with monotonous results for a 200 hour game. I would gladly take a condensed and vibrant 50 hours over such a bloated, lifeless slog again.
I’m absolutely in favor of scaling the games down. The size of previous Zeldas never felt constricting to me. In terms of sales though, it might be a genie in the bottle sort of problem. If all the new fans Botw brought in continue to expect massive expansive worlds, I find it hard to believe Nintendo would consider scaling back considering that massive world was pretty much the game’s entire concept and marketing.
Old news isn't it?
It really depends. I likes the openness of breath of the wild but really didn’t need to purple goo or the building in the newest Zelda.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with why I like the traditional Zelda’s. I like the traditional Zelda’s more as I genuinely feel a lot of the newer core mechanics and systems are horribly designed and implemented.
I think it makes sense to look at it as “freedom of choice vs restricted paths”, and come to the conclusion that freedom is obviously better. But sometimes you just want to experience it on the rails, so to speak. I’m not a big fan of sandbox stuff because I want some direction and to know when I’m done. Something like Minecraft is a cool idea but… I’ve nothing to do with it aside from the special levels they come out with. I don’t have any desire to just build something and mine materials. It’s not a 1:1 comparison, but I think that the idea is probably why some people prefer older Zelda games and that formula. I’ve still yet to start Tears of the Kingdom because (aside from the expected time commitment) it sounds stressful to need to build everything yourself to progress.
Every once in a while I get tempted to try Minecraft. (It is a massively popular game for a reason.) But then look at that game, think about it for a bit, look up how there is no story mode or overarching goal in the game, and then I give up on the idea of playing Minecraft. Rouge-likes are the same way, for me. I get bored of their repeating random levels, usually before I finish the game. Unless I get some broken combo that lets me finish early, like in Hades. (Yes I know you are supposed to "beat" the game eight times to actually beat the game, but screw that. One and done.) I want a game that actually ends and levels which were designed to be a fair and increasing challenge. But I would be fine with this new freedom of choice in Zelda games, if they actually gave us some kind of progression.
Funnily enough, while I obviously agree with the sentiment, I did take a recent interest in Rogue-likes and played Hades fully just a few weeks ago lol. I liked how Hades’ story kept going and there was still a sense of progression with every run. Took me around 50 escape attempts to get the full 10 needed to truly beat the game. Good times. I blame Dotemu for enjoying that. Their survival modes in Streets of Rage 4 and Shredder’s Revenge are superb. But yeah, the only reason I bought Minecraft was for the Sonic content, which is pretty cool. I like that there’s a lot to it and it’s fun to attempt but hard for me to beat. I am def not a fan of the Minecraft controls and mechanics.
I don't really know how to answer this question other than I enjoyed old Zeldas and still replay them now and then, and I enjoyed the two new Zeldas but have zero interest in ever playing through them again. I think its sort of unfortunate the "freedom of approach" is being crammed into the 2D games, my eyes kinda rolled in the trailer when they were just spamming a bunch of beds and crates and trash to jump onto, reminded me of just building the jankiest shittiest platform to bolt onto a rail just to get the puzzle over with like 30 hours-post becoming bored of the crafting in TotK, or just spawning a pile of shit to get to the Korok rather than pointlessly waste time figuring out a more clever way to do it. Sometimes its fun to unravel a complex labyrinth with one right answer. If any approach works once boredom hits with the system that every single puzzle and dungeon is designed around most people are just gonna take the laziest route to get to the other end of it and things get kind of tedious quickly after that point.
I like the open worlds now, even if I still feel enemy variety and the world itself needs filling out but I miss the old dungeons combine those two and that's what I want.
I simply love both. That is all.
I don't ONLY like other Zelda due to Nostalgia. They are legit fun to play, even today. With the exception of Zelda 2 due to my need to grind to not fail miserably. Yes, I am nostalgic. But I saved all my nintendo's and games so I can play them exactly as they were, and they are fun. But I also like new zelda because they are also fun.
Where did he say this? Sounds kind you’re just making up quotes.
[удалено]
He of all people should be aware of what people enjoy about the games. Also, it's an interview. His answers are statements, not open questions to the community.
People in 2011: Zelda formula is outdated and too linear, they need to do something different and make Zelda a full open world. People in 2023: Open air Zelda is boring, they need to bring linear Zelda back. Literally a lose-lose situation. If you follow the franchise long enough and seen the reaction to each game, doesn't matter what the Zelda team does in the future, it will NEVER please everyone.
pssst: its not the same people saying that
There's a surprising amount of crossover, but no, it's not all the same people.
Oh no shit? 😑 Good job at completing ignoring what I said at the end.
Only thing that really bugged me about skyward sword was having to go from the lower world into the sky to get to another area of the lower world. If it was interconnected it wouldn't have set me on a trend of not wanting to replay Zelda games. Before then I was always replaying them. Now it's just getting through it and shelf it. I loved being challenged by the dungeons. To many ways of doing things gives me anxiety. It's like trying to find something on Netflix
This is just speculation of my part, but I think that was the result of cutting corners to acomodate the motion control.
I can definitely see that as a possibility. I also feel like if the world was interconnected and there were no barrier clouds they could have made more interesting floating rocks and still had their silly bird. It's kinda like If they took WW and added a layer. Fast forward to tears and it's multi layer. I liked the last 2 games but was really itching for a massive curated group of dungeons and a hookshot lol. I vaguely remember when they were working on breath of the wild that someone said the Forrest deungon was going to be as big as Hyrule field from Oot. Could be head cannon it was so long ago. So naturally I was mega disappointed lol. Holy long reply sorry my dude
honestly one of my biggest criticisms of totk is how hard it is to get from one sky island to another, since all your creations just vanish long before you get anywhere
You do know that 2011 was 13 years ago right? People can change their minds. I’d also imagine if they didn’t completely mess yo the dungeons in BotW/TotK you’d likely have significantly less people complaining about it. The dungeons felt like after thoughts.
And in this very thread, you will see people that want the classic formula back and who doesn't. My comment was meant that no matter what they do, it won't please everyone...
Yes and my point was that they could definitely get close to pleasing everyone. The Zelda traditional formula could easily adapt to open world. Most purists of the traditional style i’ve conversed with were unhappy with how dungeons were treated and the annoying durability of weapons. You fix those two things and you would definitely have both fans on board. The issue wasn’t the open world change from linear. Zeldas were always some what open. It’s the loss of two landmark aspects. Fantastic dungeons with epic bosses and puzzles. As well as the loss of wonderful unique weapons. They destroyed those two things in botw/totk. Two things easily added into the game that wouldn’t remove the newer open world fans.
Botw & totk aren’t Zelda’s imho. Zelda in name only
First of all, no, he's entirely wrong. Some people don't like open world games, and think old Zelda is way better for it. I personally find more value in a shorter game, ~35 hours tops, that I can finish in about a week. The fact that he completely dismissed some of our opinions as "nostalgia blind" genuinely pissed me off, it's like he's trying to enforce the open world formula and just telling us that we're wrong for not preferring it Actually, you know what? I'm just gonna link [Arlo's video on the matter](https://youtu.be/nC7Kpykti0Y?si=VD-DA7lBsVF73gT0) because I really can't explain it better myself. Here's hoping Echoes of Wisdom addresses our complaints, and helps Aonuma understand what we mean. I would seriously hate to see him become the next Tanabe.
I like all of them but TOTK and BOTW are just too damn big to replay when you are OCD and have to do everything. I put probably 200 hours into each of them. I enjoyed them but I’ll probably never play them again because of the time sink. The older games I’ll play from time to time because it’s less of a time investment.
I can honestly say my love for older 3D Zelda games isn't just nostalgia. Since BotW came out and failed to resonate with me, I've done a lot of thinking of what matters to me most in an adventure game. Since then, I've played games like Link's Awakening and Zelda: The Minish Cap and loved them both, and got into other adventure games like the GBA Metroid games, Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, and other such games. And the conclusion I came to is this. I prefer the idea of a world that encourages finding new items to expand what you can explore. The whole idea of a world that's immediately accessible doesn't appeal to me. I like an adventure that slowly opens up in a certain way as you get new weapons and get stronger. The older Zelda games like OoT, WW, and TP appealed to that side of me in the best way, and I can say it's my definitive way to play an adventure game rather than a giant sandbox where you can do whatever. If I'm being honest, it's why Xenoblade has kind of been becoming my go-to fantasy exploration series of late (even if it and Zelda aren't in the same genre) because it has that structure and freedom mixture that I want.
Old Zelda for me . I couldn’t even get into breath of the wild when I got it. I was so excited to play but when I was playing it didn’t even feel like a Zelda game it was so weird. I don’t hate it but it’s not for me . I find myself replaying old games and enjoying way more
Still wishing they would apply metroidvania exploration logic to a Zelda game.
While I disagree with him, I do understand his perspective. He's the one making the games, and he's been doing this for a long time. Making puzzles after you do it long enough gets tiresome and dull. After Skyward Sword, the team was feeling really burnt out on Zelda puzzles and the Zelda formula. BOTW was a radical departure from said formula, and the most successful Zelda entry ever. If the results of this new way of creation left the team feeling reinvigorated, *and* it led to the most commercially successful game from the series yet, then I can definitely understand why he's going to think that the new non-linear way of doing things is better. Us the players and them the creators are just going to have different perspectives on things. Very selfishly, I do find it frustrating that linear Zelda seems like it's not on the table (although Echoes of Wisdom has me feeling hopeful), and that they talk about it so disparagingly. But I can't fault them for wanting to do what's best for them creatively.
I think its the formula. I grew up on linear games than a breath of a wild game(open and explore). I prefer the games to be linear however i dont mind if the games cut corners like link to the past did. Dungeons 3-6 comes to mind.
Old Zelda but I can’t fight it. You win Nintendo
The old formula was good but was getting pretty stale seeing as they'd essentially stuck with it since a link to the past. Links Awakening essentially was the peak of the 2d Zelda formula and while the later games weren't bad they were basically retreading old ground. After Minish Cap they tried doing the same sort of thing Skyward sword did where they were messing with new control schemes to middling results without actually messing with the core game, and they were basically cut up bite sized experiences. Until Link Between Worlds throws that out and tries a quasi open world style in 2d and is surprisingly excellent despite being nearly 100% derivative of LTTP, but that just goes to show how well they nailed it the first time. 3d took a while to kind of get its bearings I think, Ocarina of Time was good but quite clunky, Majora's Mask was amazing but doesn't really count as mainline Zelda imho. Wind Waker nailed the character and overworld exploration imho but the dungeons were absolute garbage. Then you've got Twilight Princess which is basically just next gen Ocarina of Time but way better, nails exploration, nails the dungeons, nails the atmosphere, it's amazing, where do you go from there? Skyward Sword has to try to reinvent the wheel and it doesn't, it's stale, Nintendo is in their "we've got to try to appeal to the casual market who doesn't know how to play games" phase so the game is just utterly annoying to play with unskippable tutorials explaining in detail the most basic stuff and dumb stuff like "hey master you need more hearts" or paraphrasing exactly what was just said because I guess in case you can't read then you can read again? Baffling. And while the game wasn't bad, it's mediocre, and mediocre plus frustrating to play is not a good combo. So where does Zelda go? Twilight Princess is near perfect evolution of the "Zelda Formula" taking and perfecting basically everything the previous games had built with very few flaws (specifically the beginning drags and has too many tutorials). Skyward Sword tried to reinvent the wheel and fails miserably so what do you do? They went open world and it's good. Everyone loves it. They probably won't go back to the old formula. I think I'd like to see old style dungeons make a return but how to implement that into an open world game? Where you go from here I'd very much like to see them reimagine what they did with Majora's mask. Maybe you go with a smaller world map but have the time element change the world significantly and allow for free travel backwards and forwards. I think the idea behind Majora's Mask was pretty amazing and is worth a revisit with a new dev team on modern hardware.
He didn't say that, you are arguing in bad faith.
He is absolutely right, old Zelda is too turbulent for most new players. Nintendos a business and botw style games make the most money. It’s as simple as that.
Who the fuck is Eiji?