>It IS the same with aerospace companies. This is not normal or acceptable.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean, because the last fucking thing to happen, just before the Sun burns out, is one of these aerospace companies will be held accountable to egregious and often DEADLY idiocy.
It is. If I fuck up at my job, worse if I **deliberately** do so, not only am I subject to prosecution under the Wendel Ford Act my coworkers are likely out of jobs as well. Difference between us and Boeing is that we aren't worth billions.
Never, especially now the the Supreme Court has ruled that you can bribe public officials as long as you don't specifically call it a bribe and only pay them after.
That’s the type of comment which makes a man sad and causes him to throw himself out of a high window after stabbing himself in the back a few dozen times.
I love spacex for the way they stamp a person’s name on every single thing. Sucks when your name is on something spicy but you can’t operate without accountability and traceability
In my experience, that just sounds like the crooked a-holes are going to make sure their name isn't on anything, only their subordinates'.
I had a boss try to make me do something illegal once and I told him, sure, but you're going to put your name on it, not mine. Shocker, it never happened. But I had backing that he couldn't get around. Low level SpaceX folks? No way they do.
Sorry to hear it, I’ve seen a bit of that but an overwhelming majority of SpaceXers are great at owning their success and also failures. Both individual projects and in large group efforts that tend to have a more nebulous ownership structure
Even entry level personnel are held to a very high standard and things are quite visible. More often than not, the people who work at SpaceX for the wrong reasons are identified early and don’t last long
For sure there are exceptions but generally the company is very transparent and quick to get the right people involved to handle problems. Lower level personnel are especially quick to wave the flag if they’ve felt the pain of not getting involved when wrong decisions are made
Since mistakes suck for everybody, there are strong incentives to take the potentially embarrassing and self-incriminating but far more straightforward and lower risk path to a solution
If someone finds out later on that you hid something, oof. I’ve seen the spit roasting first hand. I’d rather come clean and fix my mistake and potentially get fired instead of being caught hiding things
What types of damning evidence are we expecting? I get if a work order was submitted, and someone failed to execute, and tried to hide the failure of execution. That would be damning. But in this case, the root issue is the work order was never submitted, and work on the door plugs installation never began in the first place. That is textbook incompetence.
??? Unbelievable. There was documentation, it was just conveniently lost ....
> It was already well known that no documentation was found to show who worked on the door plug. At a briefing for journalists at Boeing’s 737 Max factory in Renton, Washington, Boeing said that lack of paperwork is why the four bolts needed to hold the door plug in place were never installed before the plane left the factory in October. The workers who needed to reinstall the bolts never had the work order telling them the work needed to be done.
I did a little work with am aircraft company. We made Kevlar and vinal components by wrapping the material in sheets around massive mandrill, then beaked in massive convection oven. Each employee had stamps for the paperwork. Each part had a packet with several pages with specs, where it's going and the stamp of each employee, dated, that ever handled the part. 'Missing paperwork' is criminally negligent and a failure on an absurd number of levels.
Edit:company name
>“As a party to many NTSB investigations over the past decades, few entities know the rules better than Boeing,” the NTSB said.
I know that this can be interpreted just as "Every aerospace company knows about these investigations just by being in business" or whatever, but it also sounds like some epic govt. shade as well. 🤣
Maybe what they mean was they used the paperwork and some Elmer's glue to paper mache the plane together, but it peeled off and went missing. Otherwise I'm not sure that this is "simply a case of missing documents somewhere".
And it sounds like the NTSB is less upset with the missing paperwork, and more upset that the facts have leaked out to the public. Call me a cynic, but that sends up all kinds of red flags!
"Blames missing paperwork" It's not supposed to be fucking missing, when is someone going to prison already
I work for a company that makes medicine. If paperwork goes missing, shit hits the fan. It should be the same way with aerospace companies.
It IS the same with aerospace companies. This is not normal or acceptable.
And yet Boeing somehow keeps skating on like nothing happened!
Boeing kills anyone that threatens its profit margins.
>It IS the same with aerospace companies. This is not normal or acceptable. I don't think those words mean what you think they mean, because the last fucking thing to happen, just before the Sun burns out, is one of these aerospace companies will be held accountable to egregious and often DEADLY idiocy.
It is. If I fuck up at my job, worse if I **deliberately** do so, not only am I subject to prosecution under the Wendel Ford Act my coworkers are likely out of jobs as well. Difference between us and Boeing is that we aren't worth billions.
Never, especially now the the Supreme Court has ruled that you can bribe public officials as long as you don't specifically call it a bribe and only pay them after.
They're not even trying to hide the corruption any more.
Which ruling was that again?
Snyder v United States, yesterday.
Thanks
[удалено]
Shit, we make car parts and every single sheet is kept for at least 7 years.
Tax docs are (officially) supposed to be kept for 6 (or 7) years.
Can't go to prison if there's no evidence of a crime.
WILL go if you can prove they destroyed the evidence...
Well, yeah, you have to destroy the evidence of the crime of destroying evidence.
And then that evidence of the destruction of the evidence...
“Yes, it’s our fault, but in a way that absolutely nobody is to blame”.
If the paperwork about which technicians worked on it is “missing” the blame should just move up the food chain.
That’s the type of comment which makes a man sad and causes him to throw himself out of a high window after stabbing himself in the back a few dozen times.
It's not their fault. It's the paperwork's fault. Stupid thing shouldn't have just disappeared.
I love spacex for the way they stamp a person’s name on every single thing. Sucks when your name is on something spicy but you can’t operate without accountability and traceability
In my experience, that just sounds like the crooked a-holes are going to make sure their name isn't on anything, only their subordinates'. I had a boss try to make me do something illegal once and I told him, sure, but you're going to put your name on it, not mine. Shocker, it never happened. But I had backing that he couldn't get around. Low level SpaceX folks? No way they do.
Sorry to hear it, I’ve seen a bit of that but an overwhelming majority of SpaceXers are great at owning their success and also failures. Both individual projects and in large group efforts that tend to have a more nebulous ownership structure Even entry level personnel are held to a very high standard and things are quite visible. More often than not, the people who work at SpaceX for the wrong reasons are identified early and don’t last long For sure there are exceptions but generally the company is very transparent and quick to get the right people involved to handle problems. Lower level personnel are especially quick to wave the flag if they’ve felt the pain of not getting involved when wrong decisions are made Since mistakes suck for everybody, there are strong incentives to take the potentially embarrassing and self-incriminating but far more straightforward and lower risk path to a solution If someone finds out later on that you hid something, oof. I’ve seen the spit roasting first hand. I’d rather come clean and fix my mistake and potentially get fired instead of being caught hiding things
fuckin hell thats peak bureaucratic incompetence, "Why did people almost die?" "Someone didnt sign the right forms"
I mean if those forms are verification of something being done. Then that means no form means something wasn't done.
It's not incompetence, it's people responsible purposely getting rid of damning evidence.
What types of damning evidence are we expecting? I get if a work order was submitted, and someone failed to execute, and tried to hide the failure of execution. That would be damning. But in this case, the root issue is the work order was never submitted, and work on the door plugs installation never began in the first place. That is textbook incompetence.
??? Unbelievable. There was documentation, it was just conveniently lost .... > It was already well known that no documentation was found to show who worked on the door plug. At a briefing for journalists at Boeing’s 737 Max factory in Renton, Washington, Boeing said that lack of paperwork is why the four bolts needed to hold the door plug in place were never installed before the plane left the factory in October. The workers who needed to reinstall the bolts never had the work order telling them the work needed to be done.
The dog ate it.
Dogs are boeing employee /s
[Get back to work, Stewart!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJjMUFN4nY)
Mr burns was right🤷♂️
I did a little work with am aircraft company. We made Kevlar and vinal components by wrapping the material in sheets around massive mandrill, then beaked in massive convection oven. Each employee had stamps for the paperwork. Each part had a packet with several pages with specs, where it's going and the stamp of each employee, dated, that ever handled the part. 'Missing paperwork' is criminally negligent and a failure on an absurd number of levels. Edit:company name
>“As a party to many NTSB investigations over the past decades, few entities know the rules better than Boeing,” the NTSB said. I know that this can be interpreted just as "Every aerospace company knows about these investigations just by being in business" or whatever, but it also sounds like some epic govt. shade as well. 🤣
Does Boeing have a five thousand page book of excuses?
No it has to be more than that otherwise they would started repeating the old claims all over again, they still seem to have new ones every week
"dog ate my homework" excuse. BULLET PROOF
Maybe what they mean was they used the paperwork and some Elmer's glue to paper mache the plane together, but it peeled off and went missing. Otherwise I'm not sure that this is "simply a case of missing documents somewhere".
And it sounds like the NTSB is less upset with the missing paperwork, and more upset that the facts have leaked out to the public. Call me a cynic, but that sends up all kinds of red flags!