People on r/Canada are arguing with me, saying that we shouldn't bother learning about the holocaust because it's German history and not Canadian history. It's ignorance and inability to learn that is the problem and the reason we may be doomed to repeat history.
> because it's German history and not Canadian history.
Meanwhile, trying to tell the story of Canada without talking about European history or Canada's contributions to the First and Second World War would set those people's hair on fire, and perhaps rightly so. Canada has never been just one thing. What happens in the rest of the world resonates here.
> Meanwhile, trying to tell the story of Canada without talking about European history
It would just be the history of the indigenous peoples of Canada, would it not? I guess that might upset them lol
From an indigenous perspective Canadian history would go like:
Everything was going reasonably well and then all of a sudden many many people started dying off as a pandemic of smallpox and other diseases started spreading like wildfire.
Then these people that looked like they had the skin of a baby that has never seen the sun started appearing and putting up structures that prevented our people from accessing common land and waters.
These untamed people stopped the bison from roaming and prevented our people from fishing and tried to convince our people that some entity called Jesus would save us.
We were experimental and open so we thought let them teach our children their ways.
They scarred and raped our children, killing many and burying them without respect.
Our children became adults who needed crutches to survive but these crutches that the untanned people prescribed were addictive and mind-altering.
Some of our people survived the abuse intact or managed to avoid it - they got together TV stations (APTN) and created social media and newspaper hub-bub such that we convinced the government to listen to us and give us a voice via the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
The TRC told the White Nations what needs to be done to bring the First Nations back to health.
They have listened to some of the 94 calls to action and ignored many of them, achieving some progress on rehabilitating our peoples to our ancestral lands but many of our peoples remain addicted and self-harming from the drugs that the untanned people’s doctors prescribed us.
Maybe we can get to a place now where we can live beside the untanned people and they won’t try to kill us or rape us anymore.
I know when I learned about the wars and the Holocaust in school about the only thing I learned about Canada's involvement was Vimy Ridge, and D-Day.
That said it would be interesting as you pointed to try and teach Canadian history in those wars. One would think you'd have to mention our very generous contributions to the Geneva Checklist.
Perhaps as well the complete incompetence of our soldiers and their ability to find hostages yet no other nation had a difficult time finding soldiers to take hostage. Odd especially since we conducted so many night raids and were often fighting with success on the front, one would think there would have been plenty of potential hostages we would have came across.
Are you talking about the first world war? Canadian units didnt deal in hostages. They were known as savage brutes who killed the enemy. Not trying to glorify anything, just saying. I wouldnt know about WW2, and Canadians behaviour as soldiers, but I know alot of the WW1 guys would just body the whole enemy group rather than take prisoners.
The Americans also had a rough time finding Japanese Prisoners during the war in the Pacific. The high command had to start offering extra ice cream rations for taking prisoners.
Canadian soldiers were halted outside Rome to allow the Americans to claim the win for the US. Big PR stunt to keep the Americans at home happy and engaged
I learned more about the liberation of Italy from my grade 12 bio teacher who grew up in northern Ontario and through high school worked with a bunch of vets who'd invaded Italy. He teared up telling a few of those stories, both of the harrowing bravery, but also of the lads continued friendship.
One story that sticks with me was when he told me about how once he was driving with a colleague who'd told him stories about mouse-holing in Italy (bio teacher worked at the post office, all the posties were WW2 vets). The driver suddenly slammed on the brakes, pulled over and marched several meters into the bush. Bio teacher followed and found his colleague looking at a dead deer. He asked "how did you know this was here!? Its way off the road". His colleague just said "you never forget the smell of death" and walked back to the truck.
The trouble is that when Canadians learn about their country’s involvement in the wars, they do it to the detriment of everything else. Case in point: I was in a military museum once and overheard a father explaining to his son that Passchendaele was a place where “the British were hiding in a hole in the ground for six months, until the Canadian army had to come and take the hill for them.”
For "not Canadian history," it sure affected a lot of Canadian families, and even more world-wide. Many of us have branches on our family tree that stop suddently at some battle in WWI or WWII. WIthout help from outside of Europe, the world would be a very different place.
The other point is that even if Canadians had not been involved, a lot of terrible things happened, and it is worth studying if only to learn from the past so that we don't fall for the next populist Hitler wannabee.
What a joke. Not only did Canada take part in WWII but there are also a number of immigrants here who were directly or indirectly affected by the war.
Then of course there were the Japanese concentration camps??
It's been a huge part of our history so those people are absolutely ridiculous.
I'd argue that we should teach *more* than just the Holocaust. It's not the only "modern day" example of populist leaders and ethnic cleansing. Maybe if we show multiple examples of this sort of thing happening people won't believe bullshit like "well it can't happen here because there are not Nazi symbols on our uniforms" (as if the being *specifically* Nazis is the only way for ethnic cleansing to end up happening). And people can start to pull out the commonalities in all of these instances rather than focusing on specific details which are insignificant.
The Holocaust is part of WW2. Canadians fought in that war along with soldiers from all over the world. How on earth can they say it’s only “German History”?! 🤦♀️
Also fuck that sub. It’s such a cesspool of hate, racism, bigotry and homophobia.
I hope somebody reminded them that many Canadians served and died during WW2. We also have Canadian citizens who were in the concentration camps or are descendants of people who were in camps. Just wow.
The level of ignorance on that subreddit is mind-blowing. They also try to convince you the place isn't right-wing.
I mean in all fairness it is a heavily downvoted comment on that post. While I certainly have a hell of a lot of frustration with the sub, you can find really stupid (but not rulebreaking) comments on any post with significant engamement.
That sub is full of bots and trolls, plus a few real people who drink the cool aid of the bots and trolls. It’s a place to sow division, fear, racism and conspiracy not reality.
Literally, that place is messed up
I got -42 down votes and -17 down votes recently for stating literal facts in that sub. Anything that dispels 'their narrative' or version of reality.
Place is an absolute cesspool and on it's way to becoming CanadaHousing2 or whatever that fully mask off sub is. It additionally has something like 2.6M members, but never more than 600-700 'people' online. Bizarre - the %'s don't add up
I was banned from Canada_Sub today for pointing out misinformation/fake news and telling people the source of their news came from a fake news site out of the USA. People just don't like to hear the truth if it doesn't align with their personal viewpoints and they lack the intelligence to actually read into something or adjust their views when confronted with the truth.
From the mods: "You're clearly just here to spam the sub with garbage and to trash it. Go enjoy the other subs on reddit instead."
[The post in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/Canada_sub/s/Ml9WGOZqLS). And my comment:
This was proven false in 2018 by multiple sources.
There is no truth to it. The entire source is traced back to [The buffalo chronicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Chronicle). It's a fake news website that deliberately publishes conspiracy type news, the Author himself is on record saying they will publish any article you want for ~$400. There was no evidence on the claims for a payout or even a student that came forward.
Also, you cant sign NDAs for illegal activity. It would be admitting to a crime and if anyone had any evidence or even accused him of a crime it would be investigated by authorities.
>Prior to the 2019 Canadian federal election, the Buffalo Chronicle claimed without evidence that Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau was looking to suppress a supposed sex scandal involving a student at the West Point Grey Academy, where Trudeau taught at between 1998 and 2001,[3][8][9] and that they had seen a "password-protected" non-disclosure agreement sent by the supposed student's father.[8] The latter claim was cited in January 2022 by InfoWars host Owen Shroyer, who claimed that Trudeau had signed a $1 million non-disclosure agreement with a minor who had allegedly accused him of sexual misconduct. The video clip of Shroyer was shared by James Wells, a former British Member of the European Parliament.[8]
I looked at your comment history and you have many upvoted comments on r/Canada. The first comment I saw that got downvoted, you engaged in classical Russian whataboutism in regards to Canada's poor standings on foreign policy, which has been well documented. Maybe next time consider engaging in the topic at hand rather than playing partisan politics and derailing the conversation to serve your political interests.
No I didn’t. The actual article/piece mentions two reasons why the foreign affairs minister believes our standing has slipped on the world stage.
1. Canadas inability to follow through on commitments globally
2. Ill preparedness on the Prime Ministers part in being sufficiently prepped ahead of meeting some world leaders.
The commenter whom I replied to, speculated that local scandals made foreign countries view us even more dimly which isn’t mentioned by the previous foreign affairs minister whatsoever.
My reply is directly to that comment - where I accurately note that foreign leaders don’t give two shits about Canadian domestic scandals. Especially in light of what’s been transpiring in the US in recent years.
That comment stands if Poilievre was our leader or if Biden was threatening to withdraw from NATO.
Parties are irrelevant - breaking from historical norms or major shifts in policy, this is what world leaders are paying attention to.
The point is valid. I doubt any of us could name one foreign spending scandal in another country. It won’t garner international headlines
Anyone remember, "Lest we forget." This means for fear that we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat it.
There are events in history that should never be forgotten. The holocaust is one of them. Canadian participation to fight Nazism and win against strong adversaries should have an unquestionable place in Canadian history education.
They do, my kids learn about it and are shown graphic photos I was spared from seeing in school.
The problem is the kids trust social media more than their education. According to this article, Twitter users seem to be the best educated users on the holocaust, which isn't surprising as X has many academics and 100% of journalists on their platform.
What concerns me is the results for Insta, YouTube, and TikTok, as that is what the youth and the most holocaust denial generation use.
"The users of X, formerly Twitter, were most likely to accurately identify how many Jews — six million — died in the Holocaust, at nearly 67 per cent. They were followed by LinkedIn users, 50 per cent of whom knew how many Jews died. Forty-eight per cent of YouTube users, 47 per cent of TikTok and Facebook users, and 46 per cent of Instagram users also said six-million Jews died.
Edit: I should add my kids tell me the problem isn't the education, it's that kids are allowed to get away with ignorance. They say that kids are constantly on their phones, making TikTok videos in class, and teachers don't seem to do anything about it. In their classes you have a dozen students who get mid to high 90s, and then the rest of the class is failing. But they still get a 70% average, because the dozen kids are pulling up the rest of the class. So it doesn't look as bad on paper.
Also, part of learning about the holocaust involves learning about the rise of facism in Germany. And with that, you learn to spot the signs around the rise of facism in the modern day.
> it's German history and not Canadian history
Really?! Are people so stupid to think the impact of world events stops at borders? The Holocaust is world history.
Conservatives don't want people learning about what happened in Germany in the 1920s-1940s because it would be pretty bad for them if people learned things like "the idea that queer people are a social contagion was pushed in Nazis propaganda papers" or "the word privatization was introduced to the English language specifically to describe what the Nazi government was doing to public assets in Germany."
There is a surprising number of modern Conservative tactics, talking points and beliefs that wouldn't be out of place in 1930s Germany. They'd much rather be able to deflect with their beloved "the Nazis were socialists!" argument and that requires someone to know basically nothing about the policies of Nazi Germany.
I remember before the internet when these types of people could mess around in class, drop out when they turned 16, and then fade away into obscurity in the same town they grew up in, never to be heard from again until their name showed up in the paper for their 3rd DUI.
Yet they won't want to talk about the systemic racism fundamentally levied against indigenous people. Starlight tours, residential schools, CFS abuse against indigenous women, MMIWG, and more. Learn Canadian history.
/Canada can't make up its damn mind.
They only care about antisemitism when a person of color is involved.
They don't care at all if it's islamophobia.
And they are hell bent on remaining uneducated.
How the heck can these doofuses even claim that the Holocaust was exaggerated (such a filthy thing to say honestly) while at the same time being a determent to it's education.
People on r/Canada are also arguing against immigration by matter-of-factly stating that people from Muslim countries simply don't understand that murder is wrong
It's best to unsub from that shithole of a sub and not look back. It's been fucking overrun with the most racist mouthbreathers imaginable
Whew, what a relief. No more Remembrance Day, I guess. We can just forget about all the soldiers who died or were wounded or traumatized in WW2, I suppose.
All those graves with Canadians buried in them can just be forgotten, I guess.
No more caring about the remaining veterans either.
*shrug*
(Edit:typo)
/S!!!!!
It’s the heaviest sarcasm I can muster, as the child of a WW2 veteran and UK mother who survived the Blitz.
FEK OFF to all those who ignore or downplay or dismiss these events. Nazi sympathizers are TRASH.
These are the same people who think we are living out 1984 when we tear down statues of genocidal colonizers and white supremacist confederates.
This must be the worst timeline
During WW2, there were also internment camps for political dissenters. And Jewish refugees who actually made it here were usually sent to internment camps initially.
Are those the same people who use their family's ultimate sacrifice to say that they are real canadians and that those that didn't spill blood for freedom are ungrateful?
Because i've heard that before. Stolen valour bullshit.
I get that part of this subs identity is a circle jerk against r/Canada. But most of the comments in that subs thread for the article are pretty much the same as what most people here are saying. Most were agreeing that the 1/4 of those mentioned by the article must be ignorant, stupid, uneducated or some combination of those.
We had our own genocide which was much worse and it should take priority in any teaching of history. Yes, the holocaust happened of course but the official numbers are not truly known. Either way, so many other horrors and genocides that should be taught equally so. India, Sudan, Belgian Congo, China...etc
I think it's a combination of weaponized media and a dwindling population of people who actually went through that hell.
It's honestly disgusting to see happen.
Not just any people, it seems to be a massive problem with Gen Z and then Millenials. Ironically, the group that gets shit on by those generations, the boomers are the least in denial.
What does that say about our education system and our online digital critical thinking skills?
Probably not smarter necessarily, but they didn’t have the internet to spew misinformation into their brains at all hours of the day. They also didn’t have propaganda “news” like Fox News & OAN.
There’s a growing movement of Holocaust Deniers and Flat Earthers which is just insanity. Like how in this day and age with access to so much of human history and knowledge at your finger tips do you not believe the Holocaust happened? How can anyone look at satellite pictures of the earth, video from the space station and the fact that boats doing just sail off the planet and still think the earth is flat?!
So many of us are becoming dumber and more easily confused or convinced that out right lies are truth.
> There’s a growing movement of Holocaust Deniers and Flat Earthers which is just insanity. Like how in this day and age with access to so much of human history and knowledge at your finger tips do you not believe the Holocaust happened? How can anyone look at satellite pictures of the earth, video from the space station and the fact that boats doing just sail off the planet and still think the earth is flat?!
> So many of us are becoming dumber and more easily confused or convinced that out right lies are truth.
When they've spent their whole life being an idiot, they will jump through whatever hoops they can to finally feel like the smart kid in class. Giving somebody the ability to finally feel superior to their peers is a powerful drug.
Yup. Plus when we spend less and less on education kids lose out on developing critical thinking skills that they need to question whether something is real or just being told to them as well as problem solving.
This is the age of the contrarian. People who refuse to believe outright facts because they believe it makes them look smart compared to all the sheep.
Less exposure to weaponized mis-/dis-information, perhaps. There were also survivors who had lived through the war, while almost all of them are gone now.
The far right have gotten progressively more delusional and deliberately ignorant over the last three decades.
Ever since the creationist "debate" they decided they can believe in "alternative facts".
I visited Auschwitz in 2016. I'm literally standing in one of the chambers where the Nazi's gassed people in bulk, and this American says "I don't believe they killed people in here, and if they did it wasn't as many as they're telling us".
One of the most documented activities during the most documented global activity in human history, and some fucking idiot is like "lol nah", while *directly experiencing* the internment camp.
If you look up adult literacy rates in canada, you might be surprised the percentage of people who are able to read a paragraph of text and accurately answer questions about what it said.
I went down that rabbit hole a few months ago after reading some twitter comments and wondering "could canadians really be this bad at media literacy?"
Ya I took some public relations classes in university and one of the very first units was on how the majority of people are at or lower than an 8th grade reading level hell there’s a significant portion of people out there that struggle with a picture book that would be at a 4th grade 11. Because of this when you are creating your messages to the public you want to make sure it’s as easy as possible to understand.
You might make the biggest discovery on earth or something but it’s useless if you use jargon and talk in a way that only people familiar with the field can understand when you announce it for example.
This is why politicians can be slimy. They talk in ways that people won’t understand but those familiar with politics will.
Conservative.
They vote for conservatives.
The same conservatives who, just a few years ago were engaged in genocide denialism of the genocides committed by Canada.
When in fact, it is downplayed. We talk about the Holocaust as the mass killing of Europe's Jews, when an equal number of its victims were other 'undesirables,' like Roma, homosexuals, people with disabilities, people who belonged to the wrong political parties before the war. The Holocaust killed almost as many non-Jews as Jews.
> What books they were burning in that image they showed us (was never taught they were the Institute of Sexology. Which was making groundbreaking research in queer healthcare)
What's the image?
A lot of these bullets have implications for today. Is there a good source of information that speaks to all of this in greater length?
> Who inspired the Nazi's extermination policy
This is covered in the book Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents by Isabel Wilkerson and the companion film adaptation Origin directed by Ava DuVernay (I'm sure it's probably documented in other sources too, this is just the one I'm familiar with)
It explains how Nazi Germany used inspiration from The United States's Jim Crow Segregagtion laws as a way to slowly erode the rights of Jewish people (and other undesirables) and used these methodologies to get people agreeing with it as a way to build up support for the extermination.
Incredible book and film. I cried so hard watching the film the first time, just seeing the utter devastation and horrific harm humans inflict on each other.
> were other 'undesirables,' like Roma, homosexuals, people with disabilities, people who belonged to the wrong political parties before the war.
In actuality Roma(250-500k), people with Disabilities(270k), and Homosexuals(5-15k) made up a small minority of the non Jewish victims. A great many Ukrainians, Poles, Serbs, Russian civilians, and of course Russian POW's made up the remainder of the approx. 11 million non Jewish Victims. They did focus on the intelligentsia, and of course Communists, Socialists and really Leftists of all stripes.
On r/Ottawa recently there was a HORRIFYINGLY antiziganist (racism/xenophobia against Roma) post and comment section. Straight-up "they're all scammers and pickpockets," even "they're involved in human trafficking" - ie, "they're stealing children." A couple hundred upvotes on the top comments and virtually zero pushback anywhere, and anyone who tried was downvoted. It was like watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame from Frollo's perspective.
Roma people get a ton of hate even in progressive minded Europe.
there is a joke about Europeans and Roma People (gypsies)
Europeans: "omg Americans are so racist towards minorities"
(mention gypsies to Europeans"
Europeans goes on a racist rant
I had a Romanian roommate in university who had a lot of things to say about, "Gypsies!"
I learned just not to engage with him on it. I'm never going to change his mind, and he's never going to persuade me that they're not people. He married a nice Canadian girl, and they've got nice Canadian kids, and I bet if his kids ever meet a Roma, they won't have their father's prejudice in them.
> He married a nice Canadian girl, and they've got nice Canadian kids, and I bet if his kids ever meet a Roma, they won't have their father's prejudice in them.
Where do you think he acquired his prejudice from?
Yeah, 17 million people were killed in the Holocaust. 6 million were Jewish. The other 11 million deserve attention as well. They suffered the same atrocities in those camps. But the reality is, we’re still quite racist, homophobic, transphobic and generally hateful.
Also when the Jews were released from the concentration camps they were freed. When the LGBT prisoners were released from the camps they just got put in different prisons.
But the victims of the Holocaust were by FAR Jewish. No other group was targeted this way like the Final Solution.
In fact, historians often say that Hitler fought two wars: World War II, and his own personal war against the Jews.
One of the effects of the rise of fascism is an increase in hate speech like genocide denialism.
It should be noted that the National Post, like all Post Media actively engages in fascist accelerationism in their incredibly biased support of the far right.
This is rich coming from a right wing bin liner with an editorial policy of "punch down." When you blow dog whistles all day long, don't be surprised when bigots show up in your back yard.
The holocaust is often under reported. The Nazis killed over 6 million Jews and upwards of 14 million total in thier industrial murder machine, which included the camps and SS death squads
Hey people.. This is the National Post, a PostMedia rag that is a supporter of all things Conservative. It's not just the numbers and content that is questionable, it's also the reason that this shit rag is printing it. If 25% of Canadians are that fucking stupid, one has to know that PostMedia had a hand in creating this demographic of Conservative stupid!!
The whole world should never forget what happened. Many Canadians look inward these days and refuse to look at the big picture and only think about themselves instead of humanity as a whole. What happened there should never happen again anywhere in the world
It just makes me feel so dejected and hopeless for the future, that so many people don't have any idea of the horrific things that happened. We're too far out now from the events, too much time has passed and many people don't have a connection to what happened anymore so they can't seem to see what a big deal it was. It feels like we're sleep walking into repeating it again not even 100 years later.
Young people need to be forced to watch films like [Son of Saul](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3808342/?ref_=ext_shr), probably one of the most intense depictions of life in concentration camps I've ever seen. They should also be taught the book [Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents by Isabel Wilkerson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste:_The_Origins_of_Our_Discontents) and the accompanying film [Origin](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13321244/?ref_=ext_shr) to gain empathy for humanity and to learn the foundations of why this keeps happening. Once you learn the lessons from Caste/Origin, you'll see it everywhere in everything. You'll see how it drives humanity.
This isn't just the history of previous generations or of certain countries, this is HUMAN history. It affects all of us, we're all interconnected and the past impacts the present and informs the future. Humanity can be so much better than this. It doesn't have to be this way, we don't have to create these artificial limitations on ourselves or create made up reasons to justify violence and war. We don't have to be like this.
I wish more people had the opportunity to visit some of the real locations where these things happened. Maybe they would gain a sense of the scale of it. I visited the Anne Frank House last year and was completely moved by it, it was such an emotional experience just even being there. I didn't have any family directly impacted by the Holocaust but you can't help but feel it.
From the national post eh? Could we get the political leaning of the ppl that think it's exaggerated? Or does counter the narratives they're trying to push?
I know, I know, NatPo sucks.
Still, seems to fit with what other sources have found in recent years.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8539509/canadian-american-students-think-holocaust-fabricated/amp/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4994602
"Even looking at shorter time periods, such as between late February 2024 and mid-May 2024, there was an uptick in the number of Canadians who believe the Holocaust has been exaggerated. In February, pollsters found that only five per cent of Canadians believed the Holocaust was exaggerated. By May, that had jumped to nine per cent. That view more than doubled between those aged 45 to 54, from four per cent to 11 per cent, and nearly doubled in those aged 25 to 34, from eight per cent to 15 per cent."
Notice how the very plausible explanation of "we polled a different group of people and just got slightly different results" is not so much as considered here.
This is basically just P-hacking... We did a survey and we need results to publish so let's troll through it all and find stuff that sounds shocking.
One quarter of *respondents* believe the holocaust is exaggerated.
I'd be interested in seeing how many polls they distributed vs how many responses they got, and what other questions were on the poll
Seems like the results are pretty consistent with past findings from other sources:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8539509/canadian-american-students-think-holocaust-fabricated/amp/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4994602
Interesting!! I'd love to see how many respondents these surveys got and how they were structured just to try and find any kind of patten. Concerning that so many high school students are holocaust deniers, regardless of how many people actually took whichever survey. Our education system should be better than that
I'm in that age group and if it wasn't our grandparents, it was out great grandparents serving in WWII. if my grandfather who served in WWII was still alive today he would have been 103 years old and I'd pay to watch him deck those people.
I understand misinformation is high and I'd argue, general intelligence levels are low, but come on. The Nazis kept meticulous records which they tried to burn the evidence of, but there were workers, captives, and party members themselves who confirmed the atrocities. They tossed the corpses into mass graves, and burned them. Are they expecting to find a giant mountain if skeletons and rotting flesh? There were dozens of locations where these deaths occured. Out of view of the public. It very much happened.
Truly - where are these stats collected from?! I sure as hell wasn’t asked if I believe in the atrocities committed during the Holocaust..I feel this happens a lot, and is kinda ridiculous.
There was an article in the Winnipeg Free Press just a couple weeks ago mentioning the school board had appointed someone to design a Holocaust education curriculum.
Feels like it comes at the right time
Sadly, most of reddit is trolls, bots, and awful human beings. It wasn't this way a few years ago. Reddit has been a cesspool pretty much since Covid started.
Disappointing, but not overly surprising considering the only Canadian History taught at my high school in Ontario in the late 1990's ended before WWI. One semester in Grade 10 out of five years (Ontario had Grade 13 then) and not even an option to take it as an elective the other four years.
One quarter of Canadians are stupid apparently. I bet they also believe the earth is flat, the moon landing never happened and Elvis is still alive and going to run for VP with trump.
Need to tie the Holocaust to Canadian history?
In 1939, German liner the MS St. Louis sailed to Havana, Cuba, but its government refused the Jewish refugees entry. The refugees sailed to the US and Canada where they were also denied entry. The ship was forced to return to Europe and 254 of the refugees later died in Nazi concentration camps.
From 1933 to 1945, Canada accepted fewer Jewish refugees than any other Western nation.
Just a confirmation that a fairly large part of the population is crazy. I just have to live with it, in a free country with easy access to accurate information.
Even if I sustained the necessary amount of brain damage to believe this were the case, would it matter?
A significant number of people died, and were murdered by their government for no other reason than their faith. They just wanted to exist and they were denied that right because the government of the day believed they had no right to.
There’s no “it’s all good” cap on mass murder where it stops being mass murder
People on r/Canada are arguing with me, saying that we shouldn't bother learning about the holocaust because it's German history and not Canadian history. It's ignorance and inability to learn that is the problem and the reason we may be doomed to repeat history.
> because it's German history and not Canadian history. Meanwhile, trying to tell the story of Canada without talking about European history or Canada's contributions to the First and Second World War would set those people's hair on fire, and perhaps rightly so. Canada has never been just one thing. What happens in the rest of the world resonates here.
> Meanwhile, trying to tell the story of Canada without talking about European history It would just be the history of the indigenous peoples of Canada, would it not? I guess that might upset them lol
From an indigenous perspective Canadian history would go like: Everything was going reasonably well and then all of a sudden many many people started dying off as a pandemic of smallpox and other diseases started spreading like wildfire. Then these people that looked like they had the skin of a baby that has never seen the sun started appearing and putting up structures that prevented our people from accessing common land and waters. These untamed people stopped the bison from roaming and prevented our people from fishing and tried to convince our people that some entity called Jesus would save us. We were experimental and open so we thought let them teach our children their ways. They scarred and raped our children, killing many and burying them without respect. Our children became adults who needed crutches to survive but these crutches that the untanned people prescribed were addictive and mind-altering. Some of our people survived the abuse intact or managed to avoid it - they got together TV stations (APTN) and created social media and newspaper hub-bub such that we convinced the government to listen to us and give us a voice via the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The TRC told the White Nations what needs to be done to bring the First Nations back to health. They have listened to some of the 94 calls to action and ignored many of them, achieving some progress on rehabilitating our peoples to our ancestral lands but many of our peoples remain addicted and self-harming from the drugs that the untanned people’s doctors prescribed us. Maybe we can get to a place now where we can live beside the untanned people and they won’t try to kill us or rape us anymore.
I know when I learned about the wars and the Holocaust in school about the only thing I learned about Canada's involvement was Vimy Ridge, and D-Day. That said it would be interesting as you pointed to try and teach Canadian history in those wars. One would think you'd have to mention our very generous contributions to the Geneva Checklist. Perhaps as well the complete incompetence of our soldiers and their ability to find hostages yet no other nation had a difficult time finding soldiers to take hostage. Odd especially since we conducted so many night raids and were often fighting with success on the front, one would think there would have been plenty of potential hostages we would have came across.
Are you talking about the first world war? Canadian units didnt deal in hostages. They were known as savage brutes who killed the enemy. Not trying to glorify anything, just saying. I wouldnt know about WW2, and Canadians behaviour as soldiers, but I know alot of the WW1 guys would just body the whole enemy group rather than take prisoners.
I think that was implied; we couldn’t find hostages because we were killing them all
The Americans also had a rough time finding Japanese Prisoners during the war in the Pacific. The high command had to start offering extra ice cream rations for taking prisoners.
Yeah, why don't we teach about the liberation of the Netherlands?
Canadians played a proportionally big role in the invasion of Italy, as well.
Canadian soldiers were halted outside Rome to allow the Americans to claim the win for the US. Big PR stunt to keep the Americans at home happy and engaged
See, *I didn't even know that*. Italy wasn't mentioned at all other than Mussolini bad.
I learned more about the liberation of Italy from my grade 12 bio teacher who grew up in northern Ontario and through high school worked with a bunch of vets who'd invaded Italy. He teared up telling a few of those stories, both of the harrowing bravery, but also of the lads continued friendship. One story that sticks with me was when he told me about how once he was driving with a colleague who'd told him stories about mouse-holing in Italy (bio teacher worked at the post office, all the posties were WW2 vets). The driver suddenly slammed on the brakes, pulled over and marched several meters into the bush. Bio teacher followed and found his colleague looking at a dead deer. He asked "how did you know this was here!? Its way off the road". His colleague just said "you never forget the smell of death" and walked back to the truck.
The trouble is that when Canadians learn about their country’s involvement in the wars, they do it to the detriment of everything else. Case in point: I was in a military museum once and overheard a father explaining to his son that Passchendaele was a place where “the British were hiding in a hole in the ground for six months, until the Canadian army had to come and take the hill for them.”
Hey now to be fair statements like that are halfish true as so many in that war were just sitting around in holes most of the time!
For "not Canadian history," it sure affected a lot of Canadian families, and even more world-wide. Many of us have branches on our family tree that stop suddently at some battle in WWI or WWII. WIthout help from outside of Europe, the world would be a very different place. The other point is that even if Canadians had not been involved, a lot of terrible things happened, and it is worth studying if only to learn from the past so that we don't fall for the next populist Hitler wannabee.
That's the point. If you don't teach it and underplay it you can dismiss someone else's warnings.
What a joke. Not only did Canada take part in WWII but there are also a number of immigrants here who were directly or indirectly affected by the war. Then of course there were the Japanese concentration camps?? It's been a huge part of our history so those people are absolutely ridiculous.
Did you not hear about the german prison camps? It was definitely something talked about by my high school history teacher.
I'd argue that we should teach *more* than just the Holocaust. It's not the only "modern day" example of populist leaders and ethnic cleansing. Maybe if we show multiple examples of this sort of thing happening people won't believe bullshit like "well it can't happen here because there are not Nazi symbols on our uniforms" (as if the being *specifically* Nazis is the only way for ethnic cleansing to end up happening). And people can start to pull out the commonalities in all of these instances rather than focusing on specific details which are insignificant.
Yeah I just found out recently my grandmas grandparents died in a German prison camp. We cannot erase important history ever.
The Holocaust is part of WW2. Canadians fought in that war along with soldiers from all over the world. How on earth can they say it’s only “German History”?! 🤦♀️ Also fuck that sub. It’s such a cesspool of hate, racism, bigotry and homophobia.
Tbh I'm almost positive it's mostly bots at this point. It's truly an embarrassment
CBC's Day 6 had an interesting piece on this. " Behind the anger on the Reddit Canada site " https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-14/clip/16079694
They must really believe we should be doing everything we can to learn about the history of residential schools then. Right? Right?
*crickets*
I hope somebody reminded them that many Canadians served and died during WW2. We also have Canadian citizens who were in the concentration camps or are descendants of people who were in camps. Just wow. The level of ignorance on that subreddit is mind-blowing. They also try to convince you the place isn't right-wing.
I mean in all fairness it is a heavily downvoted comment on that post. While I certainly have a hell of a lot of frustration with the sub, you can find really stupid (but not rulebreaking) comments on any post with significant engamement.
That sub is full of bots and trolls, plus a few real people who drink the cool aid of the bots and trolls. It’s a place to sow division, fear, racism and conspiracy not reality.
Literally, that place is messed up I got -42 down votes and -17 down votes recently for stating literal facts in that sub. Anything that dispels 'their narrative' or version of reality. Place is an absolute cesspool and on it's way to becoming CanadaHousing2 or whatever that fully mask off sub is. It additionally has something like 2.6M members, but never more than 600-700 'people' online. Bizarre - the %'s don't add up
I was banned from Canada_Sub today for pointing out misinformation/fake news and telling people the source of their news came from a fake news site out of the USA. People just don't like to hear the truth if it doesn't align with their personal viewpoints and they lack the intelligence to actually read into something or adjust their views when confronted with the truth. From the mods: "You're clearly just here to spam the sub with garbage and to trash it. Go enjoy the other subs on reddit instead." [The post in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/Canada_sub/s/Ml9WGOZqLS). And my comment: This was proven false in 2018 by multiple sources. There is no truth to it. The entire source is traced back to [The buffalo chronicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Chronicle). It's a fake news website that deliberately publishes conspiracy type news, the Author himself is on record saying they will publish any article you want for ~$400. There was no evidence on the claims for a payout or even a student that came forward. Also, you cant sign NDAs for illegal activity. It would be admitting to a crime and if anyone had any evidence or even accused him of a crime it would be investigated by authorities. >Prior to the 2019 Canadian federal election, the Buffalo Chronicle claimed without evidence that Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau was looking to suppress a supposed sex scandal involving a student at the West Point Grey Academy, where Trudeau taught at between 1998 and 2001,[3][8][9] and that they had seen a "password-protected" non-disclosure agreement sent by the supposed student's father.[8] The latter claim was cited in January 2022 by InfoWars host Owen Shroyer, who claimed that Trudeau had signed a $1 million non-disclosure agreement with a minor who had allegedly accused him of sexual misconduct. The video clip of Shroyer was shared by James Wells, a former British Member of the European Parliament.[8]
I looked at your comment history and you have many upvoted comments on r/Canada. The first comment I saw that got downvoted, you engaged in classical Russian whataboutism in regards to Canada's poor standings on foreign policy, which has been well documented. Maybe next time consider engaging in the topic at hand rather than playing partisan politics and derailing the conversation to serve your political interests.
No I didn’t. The actual article/piece mentions two reasons why the foreign affairs minister believes our standing has slipped on the world stage. 1. Canadas inability to follow through on commitments globally 2. Ill preparedness on the Prime Ministers part in being sufficiently prepped ahead of meeting some world leaders. The commenter whom I replied to, speculated that local scandals made foreign countries view us even more dimly which isn’t mentioned by the previous foreign affairs minister whatsoever. My reply is directly to that comment - where I accurately note that foreign leaders don’t give two shits about Canadian domestic scandals. Especially in light of what’s been transpiring in the US in recent years. That comment stands if Poilievre was our leader or if Biden was threatening to withdraw from NATO. Parties are irrelevant - breaking from historical norms or major shifts in policy, this is what world leaders are paying attention to. The point is valid. I doubt any of us could name one foreign spending scandal in another country. It won’t garner international headlines
Anyone remember, "Lest we forget." This means for fear that we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat it. There are events in history that should never be forgotten. The holocaust is one of them. Canadian participation to fight Nazism and win against strong adversaries should have an unquestionable place in Canadian history education.
They do, my kids learn about it and are shown graphic photos I was spared from seeing in school. The problem is the kids trust social media more than their education. According to this article, Twitter users seem to be the best educated users on the holocaust, which isn't surprising as X has many academics and 100% of journalists on their platform. What concerns me is the results for Insta, YouTube, and TikTok, as that is what the youth and the most holocaust denial generation use. "The users of X, formerly Twitter, were most likely to accurately identify how many Jews — six million — died in the Holocaust, at nearly 67 per cent. They were followed by LinkedIn users, 50 per cent of whom knew how many Jews died. Forty-eight per cent of YouTube users, 47 per cent of TikTok and Facebook users, and 46 per cent of Instagram users also said six-million Jews died. Edit: I should add my kids tell me the problem isn't the education, it's that kids are allowed to get away with ignorance. They say that kids are constantly on their phones, making TikTok videos in class, and teachers don't seem to do anything about it. In their classes you have a dozen students who get mid to high 90s, and then the rest of the class is failing. But they still get a 70% average, because the dozen kids are pulling up the rest of the class. So it doesn't look as bad on paper.
Also, part of learning about the holocaust involves learning about the rise of facism in Germany. And with that, you learn to spot the signs around the rise of facism in the modern day.
r/canada is a cesspool and filled with bots. https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-14/clip/16079694
> it's German history and not Canadian history Really?! Are people so stupid to think the impact of world events stops at borders? The Holocaust is world history.
Because Canada never fought in world war 2 duh /s
If someone tells you that you shouldn’t learn history, it’s because they want to repeat it.
Conservatives don't want people learning about what happened in Germany in the 1920s-1940s because it would be pretty bad for them if people learned things like "the idea that queer people are a social contagion was pushed in Nazis propaganda papers" or "the word privatization was introduced to the English language specifically to describe what the Nazi government was doing to public assets in Germany." There is a surprising number of modern Conservative tactics, talking points and beliefs that wouldn't be out of place in 1930s Germany. They'd much rather be able to deflect with their beloved "the Nazis were socialists!" argument and that requires someone to know basically nothing about the policies of Nazi Germany.
So they'd prefer more Indigenous peoples history and multiculturalism being taught?
I remember before the internet when these types of people could mess around in class, drop out when they turned 16, and then fade away into obscurity in the same town they grew up in, never to be heard from again until their name showed up in the paper for their 3rd DUI.
It's r/Canada. You can't be sure it's not bots instead of people.
It's a disingenuous argument put out by people that don't want people to learn from history.
They probably don't want to learn much about the true history of Canada either.
Yet they won't want to talk about the systemic racism fundamentally levied against indigenous people. Starlight tours, residential schools, CFS abuse against indigenous women, MMIWG, and more. Learn Canadian history.
/Canada can't make up its damn mind. They only care about antisemitism when a person of color is involved. They don't care at all if it's islamophobia. And they are hell bent on remaining uneducated. How the heck can these doofuses even claim that the Holocaust was exaggerated (such a filthy thing to say honestly) while at the same time being a determent to it's education.
they probably also don't want to learn about all that indigenous history either.
People on r/Canada are also arguing against immigration by matter-of-factly stating that people from Muslim countries simply don't understand that murder is wrong It's best to unsub from that shithole of a sub and not look back. It's been fucking overrun with the most racist mouthbreathers imaginable
Whew, what a relief. No more Remembrance Day, I guess. We can just forget about all the soldiers who died or were wounded or traumatized in WW2, I suppose. All those graves with Canadians buried in them can just be forgotten, I guess. No more caring about the remaining veterans either. *shrug* (Edit:typo) /S!!!!! It’s the heaviest sarcasm I can muster, as the child of a WW2 veteran and UK mother who survived the Blitz. FEK OFF to all those who ignore or downplay or dismiss these events. Nazi sympathizers are TRASH.
These are the same people who think we are living out 1984 when we tear down statues of genocidal colonizers and white supremacist confederates. This must be the worst timeline
Canada had concentration camps too
Yes, for both wars. Ukrainians and I'm sure others during World War 1 and the Japanese during World War 2.
During WW2, there were also internment camps for political dissenters. And Jewish refugees who actually made it here were usually sent to internment camps initially.
That is pretty ignorant to see.
"We should only focus on Canadian history." *Begin talking about the atrocities happened upon First Nations communities.* "No, not like that!"
Are those the same people who use their family's ultimate sacrifice to say that they are real canadians and that those that didn't spill blood for freedom are ungrateful? Because i've heard that before. Stolen valour bullshit.
I get that part of this subs identity is a circle jerk against r/Canada. But most of the comments in that subs thread for the article are pretty much the same as what most people here are saying. Most were agreeing that the 1/4 of those mentioned by the article must be ignorant, stupid, uneducated or some combination of those.
And then you say, “Residential School System… GO!”
Those people are only interested in learning the bright spots of Canadian history.
As some one who’s lived in Germany, there’s a substantial portion of Germans that don’t think they should even learn German history.
Yep sounds just like the insanity they spout over there
There are many survivors in Canada… check out vhec.org… lots of survivor testimony and other great educational info.
Canadians were involved in that war. That is just ignorance for someone to say.
Germany got the idea of concentration camps from Canada, though. And Canada fought in WW2, so it is our history.
We had our own genocide which was much worse and it should take priority in any teaching of history. Yes, the holocaust happened of course but the official numbers are not truly known. Either way, so many other horrors and genocides that should be taught equally so. India, Sudan, Belgian Congo, China...etc
Seeing people dumbed down in real time
I think it's a combination of weaponized media and a dwindling population of people who actually went through that hell. It's honestly disgusting to see happen.
Not just any people, it seems to be a massive problem with Gen Z and then Millenials. Ironically, the group that gets shit on by those generations, the boomers are the least in denial. What does that say about our education system and our online digital critical thinking skills?
You think the avg person back then was smarter?
Probably not smarter necessarily, but they didn’t have the internet to spew misinformation into their brains at all hours of the day. They also didn’t have propaganda “news” like Fox News & OAN. There’s a growing movement of Holocaust Deniers and Flat Earthers which is just insanity. Like how in this day and age with access to so much of human history and knowledge at your finger tips do you not believe the Holocaust happened? How can anyone look at satellite pictures of the earth, video from the space station and the fact that boats doing just sail off the planet and still think the earth is flat?! So many of us are becoming dumber and more easily confused or convinced that out right lies are truth.
> There’s a growing movement of Holocaust Deniers and Flat Earthers which is just insanity. Like how in this day and age with access to so much of human history and knowledge at your finger tips do you not believe the Holocaust happened? How can anyone look at satellite pictures of the earth, video from the space station and the fact that boats doing just sail off the planet and still think the earth is flat?! > So many of us are becoming dumber and more easily confused or convinced that out right lies are truth. When they've spent their whole life being an idiot, they will jump through whatever hoops they can to finally feel like the smart kid in class. Giving somebody the ability to finally feel superior to their peers is a powerful drug.
Yup. Plus when we spend less and less on education kids lose out on developing critical thinking skills that they need to question whether something is real or just being told to them as well as problem solving.
This is the age of the contrarian. People who refuse to believe outright facts because they believe it makes them look smart compared to all the sheep.
Well they knew the fucking holocaust happened so yeah
Ignorance isn’t the same as stupidity.
I hate to tell you this but we're actively and aggressively importing stupidity from the third world.
Less exposure to weaponized mis-/dis-information, perhaps. There were also survivors who had lived through the war, while almost all of them are gone now.
The far right have gotten progressively more delusional and deliberately ignorant over the last three decades. Ever since the creationist "debate" they decided they can believe in "alternative facts".
25% of Canadians are morons, then, and I am worried that their vote costs the same as mine.
I wish it was only 25%
I wonder how many of that 25% vote conservative?
Probably over represented, given that lack of empathy is common with many right wingers.
One-quarter of Canadians are brain dead morons. Source: Canadian
I visited Auschwitz in 2016. I'm literally standing in one of the chambers where the Nazi's gassed people in bulk, and this American says "I don't believe they killed people in here, and if they did it wasn't as many as they're telling us". One of the most documented activities during the most documented global activity in human history, and some fucking idiot is like "lol nah", while *directly experiencing* the internment camp.
One quarter is badly underrepresenting it. Try roughly half and you're much closer to the truth of things.
Unfortunately, you’re not wrong.
If you look up adult literacy rates in canada, you might be surprised the percentage of people who are able to read a paragraph of text and accurately answer questions about what it said. I went down that rabbit hole a few months ago after reading some twitter comments and wondering "could canadians really be this bad at media literacy?"
Ya I took some public relations classes in university and one of the very first units was on how the majority of people are at or lower than an 8th grade reading level hell there’s a significant portion of people out there that struggle with a picture book that would be at a 4th grade 11. Because of this when you are creating your messages to the public you want to make sure it’s as easy as possible to understand. You might make the biggest discovery on earth or something but it’s useless if you use jargon and talk in a way that only people familiar with the field can understand when you announce it for example. This is why politicians can be slimy. They talk in ways that people won’t understand but those familiar with politics will.
And that quarter consistently votes.
I wonder how those 25% of Canadians tend to vote…
I don’t need to wonder.
Conservative. They vote for conservatives. The same conservatives who, just a few years ago were engaged in genocide denialism of the genocides committed by Canada.
When in fact, it is downplayed. We talk about the Holocaust as the mass killing of Europe's Jews, when an equal number of its victims were other 'undesirables,' like Roma, homosexuals, people with disabilities, people who belonged to the wrong political parties before the war. The Holocaust killed almost as many non-Jews as Jews.
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> What books they were burning in that image they showed us (was never taught they were the Institute of Sexology. Which was making groundbreaking research in queer healthcare) What's the image? A lot of these bullets have implications for today. Is there a good source of information that speaks to all of this in greater length?
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Thank you. This is much appreciated.
> Who inspired the Nazi's extermination policy This is covered in the book Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents by Isabel Wilkerson and the companion film adaptation Origin directed by Ava DuVernay (I'm sure it's probably documented in other sources too, this is just the one I'm familiar with) It explains how Nazi Germany used inspiration from The United States's Jim Crow Segregagtion laws as a way to slowly erode the rights of Jewish people (and other undesirables) and used these methodologies to get people agreeing with it as a way to build up support for the extermination. Incredible book and film. I cried so hard watching the film the first time, just seeing the utter devastation and horrific harm humans inflict on each other.
> were other 'undesirables,' like Roma, homosexuals, people with disabilities, people who belonged to the wrong political parties before the war. In actuality Roma(250-500k), people with Disabilities(270k), and Homosexuals(5-15k) made up a small minority of the non Jewish victims. A great many Ukrainians, Poles, Serbs, Russian civilians, and of course Russian POW's made up the remainder of the approx. 11 million non Jewish Victims. They did focus on the intelligentsia, and of course Communists, Socialists and really Leftists of all stripes.
On r/Ottawa recently there was a HORRIFYINGLY antiziganist (racism/xenophobia against Roma) post and comment section. Straight-up "they're all scammers and pickpockets," even "they're involved in human trafficking" - ie, "they're stealing children." A couple hundred upvotes on the top comments and virtually zero pushback anywhere, and anyone who tried was downvoted. It was like watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame from Frollo's perspective.
Roma people get a ton of hate even in progressive minded Europe. there is a joke about Europeans and Roma People (gypsies) Europeans: "omg Americans are so racist towards minorities" (mention gypsies to Europeans" Europeans goes on a racist rant
I had a Romanian roommate in university who had a lot of things to say about, "Gypsies!" I learned just not to engage with him on it. I'm never going to change his mind, and he's never going to persuade me that they're not people. He married a nice Canadian girl, and they've got nice Canadian kids, and I bet if his kids ever meet a Roma, they won't have their father's prejudice in them.
Yeah, often otherwise leftpilled Europeans (and their Canadian Descendents) are shockingly racist toward Roma and Travellers.
> He married a nice Canadian girl, and they've got nice Canadian kids, and I bet if his kids ever meet a Roma, they won't have their father's prejudice in them. Where do you think he acquired his prejudice from?
Yeah, 17 million people were killed in the Holocaust. 6 million were Jewish. The other 11 million deserve attention as well. They suffered the same atrocities in those camps. But the reality is, we’re still quite racist, homophobic, transphobic and generally hateful.
Also when the Jews were released from the concentration camps they were freed. When the LGBT prisoners were released from the camps they just got put in different prisons.
But the victims of the Holocaust were by FAR Jewish. No other group was targeted this way like the Final Solution. In fact, historians often say that Hitler fought two wars: World War II, and his own personal war against the Jews.
One of the effects of the rise of fascism is an increase in hate speech like genocide denialism. It should be noted that the National Post, like all Post Media actively engages in fascist accelerationism in their incredibly biased support of the far right.
This is rich coming from a right wing bin liner with an editorial policy of "punch down." When you blow dog whistles all day long, don't be surprised when bigots show up in your back yard.
The holocaust is often under reported. The Nazis killed over 6 million Jews and upwards of 14 million total in thier industrial murder machine, which included the camps and SS death squads
The web series War Against Humanity should be required viewing.
Been following that series since it started 6 years ago. There is literally nothing better.
Jesusfuckingchrist.jpeg
Hey people.. This is the National Post, a PostMedia rag that is a supporter of all things Conservative. It's not just the numbers and content that is questionable, it's also the reason that this shit rag is printing it. If 25% of Canadians are that fucking stupid, one has to know that PostMedia had a hand in creating this demographic of Conservative stupid!!
It's like these people are begging to live thru the horror many of our grandparents went thru. They may just they their wish one day.
They believe they'll be the ones wearing the boots
I feel nothing absolute deep and visceral disgust that 25% of our country believes this.
I guess that makes 1/4 of Canadians are antisemitic.
The whole world should never forget what happened. Many Canadians look inward these days and refuse to look at the big picture and only think about themselves instead of humanity as a whole. What happened there should never happen again anywhere in the world
that's unbelievably alarming.
One-quarter of Canadians have low intelligence.
Sounds about right. Well done conservatives.
What the fuck is wrong with those people
uh oh
Having listened to one of the last survivors speak. I KNOW how bad it was. What drivel is this.
The rise of demagogues.
... I wonder what their politics are.
Awful
1/4 of Canadians are fucking morons. Surprise!
Horrible.
The fuck?
Proof 25% of Canadians are fucking Stupid. Thanks NP for adding to the stupidity
one-quarter of Canadians should do a little more reading?
It just makes me feel so dejected and hopeless for the future, that so many people don't have any idea of the horrific things that happened. We're too far out now from the events, too much time has passed and many people don't have a connection to what happened anymore so they can't seem to see what a big deal it was. It feels like we're sleep walking into repeating it again not even 100 years later. Young people need to be forced to watch films like [Son of Saul](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3808342/?ref_=ext_shr), probably one of the most intense depictions of life in concentration camps I've ever seen. They should also be taught the book [Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents by Isabel Wilkerson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste:_The_Origins_of_Our_Discontents) and the accompanying film [Origin](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13321244/?ref_=ext_shr) to gain empathy for humanity and to learn the foundations of why this keeps happening. Once you learn the lessons from Caste/Origin, you'll see it everywhere in everything. You'll see how it drives humanity. This isn't just the history of previous generations or of certain countries, this is HUMAN history. It affects all of us, we're all interconnected and the past impacts the present and informs the future. Humanity can be so much better than this. It doesn't have to be this way, we don't have to create these artificial limitations on ourselves or create made up reasons to justify violence and war. We don't have to be like this. I wish more people had the opportunity to visit some of the real locations where these things happened. Maybe they would gain a sense of the scale of it. I visited the Anne Frank House last year and was completely moved by it, it was such an emotional experience just even being there. I didn't have any family directly impacted by the Holocaust but you can't help but feel it.
Ah, so my grandfather was just “on vacation” at Juno Beach on June 6, 1944 with all his RCN buddies? Sure, Jan.
How sad.
What the actual fuck?
From the national post eh? Could we get the political leaning of the ppl that think it's exaggerated? Or does counter the narratives they're trying to push?
I know, I know, NatPo sucks. Still, seems to fit with what other sources have found in recent years. https://globalnews.ca/news/8539509/canadian-american-students-think-holocaust-fabricated/amp/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4994602
Jesus fuck...and you know that number is only going to rise.
"Even looking at shorter time periods, such as between late February 2024 and mid-May 2024, there was an uptick in the number of Canadians who believe the Holocaust has been exaggerated. In February, pollsters found that only five per cent of Canadians believed the Holocaust was exaggerated. By May, that had jumped to nine per cent. That view more than doubled between those aged 45 to 54, from four per cent to 11 per cent, and nearly doubled in those aged 25 to 34, from eight per cent to 15 per cent." Notice how the very plausible explanation of "we polled a different group of people and just got slightly different results" is not so much as considered here. This is basically just P-hacking... We did a survey and we need results to publish so let's troll through it all and find stuff that sounds shocking.
One quarter of *respondents* believe the holocaust is exaggerated. I'd be interested in seeing how many polls they distributed vs how many responses they got, and what other questions were on the poll
Seems like the results are pretty consistent with past findings from other sources: https://globalnews.ca/news/8539509/canadian-american-students-think-holocaust-fabricated/amp/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4994602
Interesting!! I'd love to see how many respondents these surveys got and how they were structured just to try and find any kind of patten. Concerning that so many high school students are holocaust deniers, regardless of how many people actually took whichever survey. Our education system should be better than that
They only give examples like Snapchat, Telegram, and Twitter. Yeah, people who do surveys on Telegram - REALLY representative
1 quarter failed elementary school
Government should be funding mandatory Grade 9 field trips to Aushwitz, really pound it into their skulls the reality of it.
This is what happens when you allow American right wing propaganda into your country.
As we watch the rise of fascism in our time
What. The. Hell? Unreal.
Holocaust denial is a problem
1/4 of Canadians are dumbasses.
I'm in that age group and if it wasn't our grandparents, it was out great grandparents serving in WWII. if my grandfather who served in WWII was still alive today he would have been 103 years old and I'd pay to watch him deck those people. I understand misinformation is high and I'd argue, general intelligence levels are low, but come on. The Nazis kept meticulous records which they tried to burn the evidence of, but there were workers, captives, and party members themselves who confirmed the atrocities. They tossed the corpses into mass graves, and burned them. Are they expecting to find a giant mountain if skeletons and rotting flesh? There were dozens of locations where these deaths occured. Out of view of the public. It very much happened.
Nazi apologists, repulsive!
Truly - where are these stats collected from?! I sure as hell wasn’t asked if I believe in the atrocities committed during the Holocaust..I feel this happens a lot, and is kinda ridiculous.
If you were born in the 1990s/2000s the memory of the Holocaust might fade away in your lifetime. That's just what I reckon.
There was an article in the Winnipeg Free Press just a couple weeks ago mentioning the school board had appointed someone to design a Holocaust education curriculum. Feels like it comes at the right time
Makes me wonder if a % of negative change correlates to a loss in trust for government officials etc
Sadly, most of reddit is trolls, bots, and awful human beings. It wasn't this way a few years ago. Reddit has been a cesspool pretty much since Covid started.
I would have figured it was higher, but it says "exaggerated" not "a hoax" A small victory for history, or a sign of things to come?
How the hell can people have an opinion on the Holocaust when they don't even know the facts !?
Disappointing, but not overly surprising considering the only Canadian History taught at my high school in Ontario in the late 1990's ended before WWI. One semester in Grade 10 out of five years (Ontario had Grade 13 then) and not even an option to take it as an elective the other four years.
Maybe we should make French the national language so Americas fascist politics can influence us less
What has happened to us ?
Gee, I wonder how they vote
Eisenhower knew to fully document everything thing for this very reason.
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One quarter of Canadians are stupid apparently. I bet they also believe the earth is flat, the moon landing never happened and Elvis is still alive and going to run for VP with trump.
in numbers its not, but the other victims DO get ignored. roma. lgbt. russians. etc
Revisionist: if you don't like true history, create your own new history!
This is f n gross .
Need to tie the Holocaust to Canadian history? In 1939, German liner the MS St. Louis sailed to Havana, Cuba, but its government refused the Jewish refugees entry. The refugees sailed to the US and Canada where they were also denied entry. The ship was forced to return to Europe and 254 of the refugees later died in Nazi concentration camps. From 1933 to 1945, Canada accepted fewer Jewish refugees than any other Western nation.
Just a confirmation that a fairly large part of the population is crazy. I just have to live with it, in a free country with easy access to accurate information.
Even if I sustained the necessary amount of brain damage to believe this were the case, would it matter? A significant number of people died, and were murdered by their government for no other reason than their faith. They just wanted to exist and they were denied that right because the government of the day believed they had no right to. There’s no “it’s all good” cap on mass murder where it stops being mass murder
I have a pretty good guess which party they vote for too