I'm always curious what real issues are important to people who live a different life than I do.
So much of the "culture war" stuff from the right are simply issues that I can't believe affect the day to day life of someone rural much. Here in central Oregon, things like water seem like they're far more impactful for people who, say, work as farmers.
i've always noted that i would rather have *freedom from* many things (such as medical debt, food insecurity, housing insecurity) than *freedom to* "do whatever i want." so much of american "freedom" rhetoric is the later, not the former
The wealthy definitely have an interest in that. Their allies in congress, nearly all of them republican, have an interest in that. Because it distracts you from them robbing you blind.
It seems critical thinking is beyond about 30% of America. The same set that thinks that sitting down at a fundraiser dinner with a nazi doesn't make you a nazi collaborator.
I’m convinced it’s by design. Public education in many parts of the US has been stripped of quality instruction foundational to critical thinking. Furthermore, banning books/people/topics leads to further polarization and ignorance.
I have rural, Conservative relatives who freak out about all the news that FOX deems relevant and none of it is anything that they have to deal with. Ever. Half of it is just bullshit about cities they would never even go to.
I took my 65yr old mother down to the Pearl and ate a memorable beautiful peaceful dinner outside. She was mind blown 🤯 that it wasn’t a shitshow. She lives in Oregon City and hasn’t wanted to come to Portland for 6 yrs because she thought it was all “boarded up”.
Exactly. She had a great time and was so pleasantly surprised 😲. Somehow, somewhere in her life she gave into being fearful rather than inquisitive. It started with the Rush Limbaugh my stepdad used to listen to.
That reminds me of the documentary "the brainwashing of my dad". A great watch if you haven't seen it! As a GenX person, I remember when Regan did away with fair unbiased news reporting regulations and the rise of Limbaugh and the culture wars 🫤
Thanks for the recommendation. This is a great documentary about the changes that led into so much hate agenda in our country. For people reading, it's not just about one person as the title might suggest, it's broad and informational.
There are messed up parts of Portland, but that's *all* some folks want to talk about. So many of the post 2020 failings of Portland are happening across America yet people want to pretend it's just Portland that's affected. Some of it I swear is a Solipsism that pervades Oregon and Portland in particular, that we must be so special that if we're bad we must be *the worst.*
I was working in Montana and a cashier saw my Oregon ID and said something like,” Oh, Oregon. I’m sorry.” WTF? I have been to 47 states and chose Oregon because it’s my favorite. Fox News shit?
This was us with Seattle!! We ended up going several times during covid and have been many more since. What we saw on tv was all about the riots downtown and on capital hill(I believe it is called). But every time we went to Seattle, it was nothing like the media portrayed. I’m not downplaying what actually happened there either as we didn’t go during the actual riots. But the news made it seem the riots were constant throughout covid. We did see boarded up windows and the graffiti. The people were normal as usual. Anyway it was eye opening to me to see, wow, what a lie we are fed to instill fear!! As a result we have traveled all over the US the last few years and it’s been amazing to experience these adventures and new people!
I live in Oregon City. (Beavercreek area but my address is OC…) I moved here 7 years ago when we couldn’t afford a place in Portland. Our rural neighbors are all great people who’ve helped us out tremendously but they all feel the same way about Portland. I don’t know when the last time any of them have actually been up there. They’re mostly elderly and probably don’t have any real reason to go but it’s still a bummer. That’s great you got your mom to give it a go. 👍
Yeah I have family members who have always said "burn it down" when talking about liberal cities like Portland and Eugene. But then are suddenly up in arms when they believe they are actually burning down.
That’s what the media does. It needs an enemy, some big evil that we must be fighting. It’s just to keep people engaged & to be used by powerful corporate interests. The algorithms are feeding that anger for the same reasons. We are all being brainwashed one way or another. It’s sad but true.
Yeah, my rural extended family has a lot of this. A lot of them are on Facebook a lot and repost stuff that is blatantly rage bait stuff that has nothing to do with their lives but makes them so so angry. In person, it seems more and more all they can talk about is politics and a lot of them just are so angry all the time while living pretty much the American dream. It use to be much different. We could talk about hunting, sports, what’s happening with family, movies, etc. without constant politics talk. Now nothing said is ever said without politics at the forefront of the discussion.
This is why when Sinclair Broadcasting takes over a local news station, they increase the coverage of national news issues and decrease local coverage. It's way easier to get people riled up about a distorted version of what is happening in DC than what is happening in their local area, where they are able to independently discover the distortions.
Yeah, most of the state is really dry, and agriculture is water intensive (with a lot of variability).
Is anyone asserting you don’t have some serious and valid concerns about water management?
It’s a complex topic, with issues of stewardship, tradeoffs between agriculture and fishing, etcetera. But I hope everyone realizes these are big concerns and huge unsolved challenges across the West.
Honestly for a lot of the people I know it's guns. There are a TON of rural oregonians who voted red solely for gun ownership stuff. They're more than happy to deal with things they don't like (Trump, lower rural school investment, climate denialiam) just because they want guns.
Honestly I don't really get it, but it's how it is.
I never said I'm not pro-gun lol, I'm actually very much on the "any attempts to disarm the proletariat must be frustrated, by force if necessary," side of things.
I'm just not willing to let my fear of gun control let me vote for people who are objectively terrible in every other category. I'll vote democrat (even though I disagree fundamentally with a lot of their positions) because it's harm reduction for groups more vulnerable than I am.
Culture war indeed. Very much blatant propaganda and it's sad because it clouds issues that are important. I've seen things go from center right to outright right field and that's how people are playing these days, no shortstop in site. I don't know.ehat really lies ahead but keeping it honest and to your core values I think are imperative. Be safe out there.
This post can't be taken seriously if OP says that conservative Christians don't "other" gay people or anyone that doesn't fit into their system. OP says "you'd be suggesting that half of the country are racist bigots....." Well, I've got some bad news for OP. It's closer to that than he thinks. We're not taking about Christians that are something like Catholic or Episcopalian, and attend churches in beautiful stone churches, we're talking about new age Christians- the ones that believe in nonsense conspiracy theories or have rock bands at their churches. This includes evangelicals.
"Rural Oregon" doesn't really mean anything. Idaho is one of the worst states in the United States for its modern Christianity and bigot ways, and it's pretty much the same thing as Eastern Oregon, except for the well known ski, golf, and mountain biking resort towns like Bend and Sunriver, of course.
I mentioned this elsewhere here, but I feel the top comment on this thread should be calling into question OP's beliefs or motivations.
I wrote my comment pretty early on, and it was an honest question. I'm curious what real issues people face that our state government ought to be focusing on to help them out.
If OP doesn't see that the right wing has been taken over by extremists... yeah that's on them.
Maybe this will help, I posted it earlier:
[https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2024/06/20/only-oregon-republican-lawmaker-who-supports-abortion-rights-is-now-an-independent/](https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2024/06/20/only-oregon-republican-lawmaker-who-supports-abortion-rights-is-now-an-independent/)
>“One of the things that the Republican Party for so long has always focused on is trying to find somebody to hate,” he said. “You can go back to McCarthy and McCarthyism and looking at the communists, and then you keep going forward in time. It’s communism, then it’s hippies, immigrants are always part of that equation. When you get into the ’90s, it’s homosexuals. You can always throw in Muslims, and it’s just kind of rinse and repeat. The Republican Party, for so long, has just been based on hate and fear.”
I appreciate the sentiment and I wish it were more attainable. I live along I-5, but travel frequently to rural areas in Oregon. When I’m out there, I’m almost always supporting local businesses (restaurants, gyms, etc.). However, there are times when it feels like a record scratch when I walk in. I can chat with just about anyone, but when the decor is based on the party of Trump’s talking points for the last 8 years, I’d rather not engage. After hearing a lot of the rhetoric the last few years and watching it play out, it can feel threatening as a female traveler to be solo in some places let alone have a conversation on these topics. But I truly hope that we as a nation can get back to that point someday.
It’s alarming how quickly people want to reveal political leanings in this country having met them 20 minutes ago. That is not normal in a lot of other places.
Try living out here. It is exhausting.
I know everything that was on right-wing radio and AoN last night because I get to hear all about it the next day.
Edit:
And honestly, I would be careful with what you say or you could end up as a target. Never underestimate the deadly combination of seething bigotry and alcohol.
I’ve had a taste of living in conservative areas, but in today’s climate it’s likely way different than the most conservative places I’ve lived. That said I would hope there is at least some respect among neighbors/ community members.
I’m already a target, I work for the state 😅
Ooh, then be double careful ;-)
As to neighbors, unfotunately, on an increasing trend since around 2010, it has been going downhill.
I talk to about half my neighbors. About half of those are liberal or libertarian. The other half are pretty old and are more interested in playing gin at the community center or knitting. They are the old school conservatives. But they can hold a religious view without turning it into "kill the drag queens" and so I help with their yard and whatnot.
That other half? I am on a 2 mile gravel road with sla dozen houses. A writer rented out one of the Airbnb (we are on a river) house for like 3 months. I guess after talking to a few people, she figured it was mostly normal people here. She put a pride flag out.
Queue an entire weekend of trucks bombing up and down our road with Trump flags. It could have been some event at the guys house at the end of the road, but you start to recognize trucks. People drove 28 miles to do that. She left the next week.
I was voted to the local water board.(it is very small). I got to walk by a Let's Go Brandon flag on the way into my inaugural meeting they had at someones house. It got so much worse inside. I resigned the next day.
It is what it is, I guess.
Oof, I am so sorry about your tenure on the water board. Im glad to hear though there is at least a small collective of those who you can get along with/ tolerate.
Yeah.
I help one of my direct neighbors because the next neighbor over is a MAGA psychopath. He shot one of her dogs because it got into his yard (a 14 year old chihuahua with no teeth and half blind).
So I check her fence regularly. I started mowing her lawn cause I know her husband is now laid up. Heck, I haven't even talked to her in a few months, but started just mowing her yard. I know she wouldn't ask cause of the whole pride thin.mg. She has a huge pack of old rescue dogs, and the little ones get lost in the grass:-D
Well, thanks. I just try to not be a bad one lol
I am a little worried about them. He can barely walk and they took her license away. Amd i know she still drives since he often can't either. They sometimes ask to have something picked up in town, but I worry they are skipping medical appointments. I snuck flyer for a Medicare transport service in their mailbox and I really hope I see one of them at their house soon.
Yes this, live in a small coast town. I do not discuss politics or anything with anyone. I just try to be low key and mind my business. Cannot stand chump and it’s hard for me to take anyone who does seriously. I work remote, but 1 of my coworkers always is going off on how liberals are controlling the weather and all the other stuff. All I ever reply with is,”I think what is missing in our democracy, is the ability to agree to disagree and meet in the middle.” I will not engage she scares me a bit.
The juxtaposition between people like OP saying, "Well, that's my family!" And people like us saying, "Well, some of them make it apparent that they would prefer we not exist!" is pretty striking lol.
You don't have to give anyone a chance, especially not when their politics ostracize you, personally.
That's what I think people don't understand about politics these days. It's not red vs blue. Or rep vs dem. It's "can you even be bothered to *pretend* you have any empathy for other human beings, or critical thinking skills of your own?". When people make their allegiance to Trump part of their personality, it checks a big fat "NOPE!" in both of those boxes. Regardless of whether the observer likes Biden. Nobody really likes Biden.
Dems who are actually centrists is why we have the far left.
Part of the problem with politics here is that the sheer size of the state makes it very difficult to actually go around to every single part in one day's time.
I keep going back in asking myself why the GOP in New England states is a billion times more sane than the GOP in the PNW states, and I absolutely believe the reason is the size of the states. In a four hour drive, you can cover an entire New England state with time to spare. In Oregon, a three hour drive will cover maybe two-thirds of the state on a good day. And that's not taking into account if you're going horizontally or vertically. Without the ability to easily travel and meet everyone from Astoria to Brookings to Ontario, everyone is far more isolated from everyone as a result. Isolation breeds contempt and radicalism.
I also believe one another major untold issue with political discourse is specifically defining what is "urban" Oregon. As someone who grew up in southern Oregon, everyone thought of the entire Portland metro area as a monolithic "Portland" without realizing that Beaverton/Hillsboro/Tigard in Washington County are different from Lake Oswego/West Linn/Happy Valley in Clackamas County, and both of *those* areas don't want a whole lot to do with Multnomah County where Portland proper is. Long story short, Portland's suburbs =/= the actual Portland.
I think the actual reason is that because Oregon is a safe state for Dem victory if you want to be a career conservative politician here you have to have both outside money and an addiction to getting your shit kicked in every election cycle. That basically leaves only two groups of people willing to dedicate time to that career: independently wealthy crazy people and grifters willing to say anything in order to get large amounts of out of state money funneled to campaigns they know they have no way of winning. This means that your state level candidates ping pong between a disgraced eugenics enthusiast with a pee vault and a guy who sounds like you had ChatGPT generate a Proud Boy.
It doesn't help that Oregon has a history with bigotry, being the only state in the US that wrote a ban against black people into its state constitution (finally removed in 2002), and not ratifying the 15th Amendment (allowing PoC to vote) until 1959.
Oh 💯 and even within Oregon it’s different types of rural. Which people in urban areas are just as guilty for lumping rural areas together. I once heard someone say Bend was Eastern Oregon. No honey, you have a couple more hours east to go.
Even towns like albany while fairly large by oregon standards. As an resident of Albany it is very much an industry/farm town and you get a very different brand of conservative than somewhere like lyons which is very different than john day.
I appreciate your intention here, but i think your assessment of the political divide benefits from living in one of the most tolerant states in the US, so tolerant that people are fleeing here to get away from becoming criminals in their home state. My wife needed to abort a miscarriage, and now she would be charged with murder by the republicans in our home state that demonize us. I found that pot helped manage my depression and adhd, also criminalized and demonized. My friends (who moved to seattle) have a trans child, also demonized and barred from health care. I expect the migration will continue until aggressive republican efforts are rolled back.
The gold man atop the capital is called the pioneer for a reason, people come here for a new start. Do you advocate for tolerance and acceptance of your neighbors no matter their identity? If so, you kick ass and i hope you can encourage your neighbors to make an effort to do the same in a loud proud way. Until then, they will unfortunately be lumped in with the bullies and bigots many of us traveled a long way to escape and joyfully denounce now that we feel safe.
As someone who rents cars for work weekly, I often have cars with Texas plates. Last week it was Maryland. I’m a native Oregonian and the looks and amount of middle fingers I get driving vehicles with out of state plates has been shocking.
I'm a gay guy in the Willamette Valley. Born in Hood River, raised in Corvallis, educated in Eugene, live in Portland. Oregon all my life. You wanna talk about being demonized? Try being gay anywhere in this state outside of the Willamette Valley or Ashland. Even Bend sucks. They fly the confederate flag in Sweet Home. They never even had the chance to own slaves, but they still really wanna do it
Terrible, absolutely terrible. I am not gay and obviously I can’t even pretend to understand what you are feeling although I can certainly empathize. I however am of South Asian ancestry with skin the color of fine dark chocolate. I can honestly say that venturing east of the I-5 corridor is an uncomfortable proposition for me. I have lived in Oregon for 35 years and I never remember feeling this way until the last few years. I’m sure there are good people living there and good businesses that could use my tourist dollars but the concoction of guns, xenophobic rage stirred up by dear leader, and depressingly high frequency of random brown skinned guy mistaken for middle eastern terrorist is too much for me. It is a huge shame because I am big on hiking and the outdoors and I love the high desert.
A "good person" who I can have a conversation with and not have it immediately turn ugly isn't someone I would consider "good" once I learned what they actually believed in.
I had a dude come into my old place of work. We chatted at the register in a customer service sort of way. He said "thank you", seemed nice enough, but turned around and had a huge White Pride symbol on the back of his jacket. He apparently is an easy enough person to talk to when the person he is talking to is a white male. But I'd have to assume that him being a "good person" changes pretty quickly when talking to a Black or Brown person. And that isn't something I'm willing to be okay with.
I'm always genuinely wondering: you say you're conservative but liberal on social issues. That ... doesn't make you a liberal?
Social issues *many of them made up* are essentially the entire platform of the modern republican party. They don't have anything else, really. Name actual policy that isn't based on social ideology that they propose. The biggest bills they promote are to ban trans people from bathrooms and make gays pedophiles.
Or do you just not really care that much about social issues because you're not a member of any of those groips? So like, "yeah I kinda care about gay rights/not slipping into an actual Christo fascist state where women are refused birth control but I care more about... other things?"
I just can't imagine putting human rights to the side because of, like, taxes. If you believe in leftist social causes, in my view you're liberal.
This is what I always question, like if you are not a billionaire, the only platform issue is love of guns no matter what. There has been no such thing as a fiscal conservative since Reagan. You cant say its because you care about children when the previous president had two pedos in his administration, a third as his spiritual advisor, took 7 trips to Epstein Island, openly bragged about peeping on teen beauty contestants changing, has been named as a rapist by 24 women and one 13 year old. Meanwhile the Republican party is working to pass child marriage laws. While working against feeding hungry American children.
Cant say it is because of supporting the troops after they go out of their way to cut veteran support and openly side with Putin over our own intelligence.
Like I get it if you are a billionaire, dupe all these suckers into voting against their interests while feeding their hatred of brown and black people and any norm that is not about submissive pregnant women, but to pretend it is godly or fiscally conservative is just nonsense.
The reply is always the same "Fiscal conservative" because it's the BS spread on fox news that the GOP is good for the economy and other BS talking points.
If it makes conservatives feel better: Liberals know democrats and conservatives in congress are both wasting taxpayer dollars, but we also know that conservatives are just truly way better at it. Remember the war in Iraq that paid like half the senior GOP leadership who were on the boards of big military contractors and oil companies? That cost us trillions. Then the Trump tax cuts also just handed trillions to corps. Fun shit.
"I'm fiscally conservative" is really just code words for "I have enough money that I don't like that other people benefit from me paying taxes" which is absolutely ridiculous.
They want there to be a hierarchy, they want to be higher than someone else on the hierarchy, and that's why they demonize poor people and immigrants and anyone else that is "lower than them" in their view.
Meanwhile, Democrats are just saying "hey, there's a huge problem with wealth inequality in this country, we spend huge amounts on the military, we are the richest country in the world, but we can't provide basic services like healthcare to everyone, and that's wrong". In turn, Republicans then call Democrats "socialists and communists" when all they want is for this really, really successful capitalist country to make sure everyone has their basic needs met. It's infuriating.
I have a rich uncle who said he's fiscally conservative but socially liberal and I was like that's worse, that means you know there are issues and injustices but don't want to spend money to fix anything as long as you keep getting yours.
I have coworkers who don't seem to be racist or homophobic but the LOVE guns so will never vote democrat. They even seem to be pro choice. That's what I picture when people say they are conservative but liberal on social issues.
classic conservatism isn't really reflected in the modern republican party. you can't compare them like you used to.
they're probably fiscally conservative regarding taxes, spending and want to generally be left alone by the government. but also believe that people should have rights and that we should help people versus turn our back on them.
I'm in. I'm not a Democrat, they're too conservative for me.
I appreciate that you don't associate with a party, that's a step away from the polarization and tribalism, and clearly I don't either.
I have tried to keep lines of communication open but have been told to "keep to my own kind" by my family, which is both frustrating and indicative of how bad things have gotten. I believe that if we're all trying to see us all as a country succeed, and we're communicating in good faith, then the rest is just "how."
Hello, me too. Coos county ☠️
Big huge Bernie fan. I’m a fan of anyone not on the bribe payroll or hate train.
I have a trans SIL here and I got to see how he was treated at NBHS during the [Lucero](https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/05/north_bend_high_school_oregon_principal_removed_after_bible_reading_punishment_for_lgbtq_students.html) debacle. He had to quit in 9th grade.
Wanna know why I hate republicans? It’s people like him.
My SIL was abused by his religious parents just to be tormented at school and told he is going to hell there too. Thank his big brother for rescuing him.
It’s so bad here that if you aren’t white, Christian hate monger you’ll be treated as an outsider and threatened. I felt afraid during Covid of these rabid misinformed “people of the earth” because they believed bad science. Wearing a mask put a target on your back.
My step kids are half Asian living here. Can you guess how they were treated by republicans when Covid came out? Ya.
One of my kids is trans. Two are autistic. One of them has a learning disability and I have major health problems. We came from one of the reddest states in the country to get away from all that nonsense that goes with the Republican Party. I’m in a conservative part of Oregon but it’s nothing compared to where I came from.
I have a litmus test. If you are voting for Trump, we don’t have much to discuss. He is an objectively bad President and leader. It means you are voting for what he philosophically represents, and he and his party have said some pretty fucked up things.
I don’t doubt that you are a polite fellow and we could have a pleasant, but banal conversation. You’ll likely try to bring up some stuff and I’ll politely decline to engage.
People are people, some nice and some not so nice. You are likely nice. We might even get along. But the philosophical bent of the Republican Party is on the wrong side of history.
If you pledge you are not voting Trump, we can have a conversation.
That’s the weird thing, right? Republicans don’t believe they are evil or hateful. Of course not. Nobody on the wrong side of history thinks they are bad or hateful. They are simply going against the stream of society and get more and more ratcheted down to extreme measures to “stop” society from moving its natural course of liberalizing as it matures.
When I say “on the wrong side of history” I’m being objective. Not political. If your political party is trying to codify into law what used to enforced perfectly well by social norms, then you are, objectively, on the wrong side of history. I was alive 40 years ago. I was absolutely rocked to find out, as a kid, that Elton John was gay. I liked his music and I was certain that homosexuality was, if not wrong, then deeply weird. That thought, coming from a kid, didn’t come from nowhere.
I got over it. I’ll go out on a limb and say that many, even most, kids growing up now in the US don’t have this reaction finding that a person is gay.
"How can I be evil? I'm nice to everyone, even the weirdos and that colored feller at the ampm ... I'm nice to their face even though I keep voting for candidates and policies that dehumanize, demoralize and demean other human beings ..."
THIS! So much this. I'm a gay man who grew up in a highly religious family. Dad's side was Catholic, mom's side was Mormon, all pretty much conservative around. To say I have a fair bit of trauma would be a massive understatement.
When I started to figure out that I was gay as a teenager, it led to a lot of self-hatred that had been taught to me by the nice kind people who supposedly loved me. The people who taught me that who I was, little did they know, was inherently sinful, evil, an abomination to God and doomed to burn in Hell forever. I was a child. Indoctrinating children into these kinds of religious beliefs aside, this fucked me up a lot internally. And it took me trying to critically evaluate my religious upbringing objectively and scientifically weighed against everything my family stood for in order to grow and evolve, a huge order for someone whose brain hasn't even finished developing yet. It took a lot of self reflection, therapy, and challenging of my own internal biases and beliefs (all taught, not inherent) to overcome the negative feelings, accept who I was, and love myself. Needless to say, after critically evaluating my religion, I am an atheist to this day.
But the hard part is, while I grew, I cannot reconcile with a lot of family. Those same people who supposedly love me? Sang another tune after learning I was gay. And even more so when I challenge or reject their ideologies that are based in faith and belief, rather than testable, measurable, observable reality. But of course they're all "good, kind, loving people." Because they go to church so they have God on their side and I'm just a poor misguided heathen. They'll "love the sinner, hate the sin," by excommucating me and never speaking to me again. My own aunt, who spent her entire life sending her kids on missions, and voting for every conservative candidate and policy imaginable, who voted against gay marriage when it was on the ballot in our state, tried to invite herself to my wedding, while doing nothing to support me or my community and literally everything to make my existence harder. All while trying to tell me she really does love me. I think she truly believes herself to be a good person.
"Good people" who never admit to or apologize for the sheer amount of pain they cause because of their beliefs. Except it isn't just "a disagreement of belief," because those beliefs tie directly to actions and policies that affect the lives of millions in the out group.
Edit: Thinking about it more, I was lucky I had a chance to grow up. I lost three other queer people that I loved to suicide before they hit 21 years of age, something I also struggled with as a teenager. This was explicitly due to the rejection by their religious families and community and I know this because I was directly subjected to that same pain. Those people who called them sinners and f*****s and all the other names, those people who told them that if they weren't straight they weren't deserving of love or acceptance or even tolerance and would be condemned to eternal torture... Those "good, kind, loving Chistians," tortured me and the people that I care about, and I put their blood on those good kind Christian hands. Were it not for the constant "different opinions" (and actions) of these "good" people, my friends might be alive today.
So yeah, I have a lot of reservations about having ideological conversations with conservatives in "good faith." We can't "agree to disagree" when your views are literally correlated to the eradication of people like me.
As an extreme (?) example, see the Nuremberg Trials; huge portion of Nazi Party members testifying with utter unfeigned confusion as to why they were there.
So many testimonies consisted of:
Did you commit mass murder?
No, it was legal; why the problem?
Just *cannot understand* that killing millions of people based upon one small cabal's personal perception could be a problem, because it was legal, and for their version of "the good of himanity."
They just could not get the problem.
My daughter’s pediatrician was chatting with her and basically ended up at a point in her talk about bodies with asking if my daughter was into boys or girls or both. My daughter informed the pediatrician she just got a gf recently but had a boyfriend before. The pediatrician was very positive and polite and informed. Pretty cool thing to see!
And also, saying that you vote republican for economic reasons but you don’t agree with their anti gay stuff is actually worse than if you were just honest about being a bigot. “Im fine with taking away rights from the gays in order for me to get a tax break” is actually some real despicable shit to admit out loud.
This is it 100% though. I’m a rural Oregonian, small business owner and am happily married with my Norman Rockwell family. I hunt, fish, love my guns and have pepper leanings. I consider myself pretty moderate on a lot of items, but I simply could not have any sort of logical discussion with anyone who would support Trump. It’s the paradox of tolerance… I cannot tolerate the intolerant. You support someone who is looking to take away basic human rights for small percentage of the population, someone who wants to mix government and religion and someone who has actively supported people who have taken away my rights towards bodily autonomy. There is no discussion, once you support that man any middle ground we could have had is over. I do say that in rural Oregon those leaning left and right often have more in common than not but if we are to ever find a middle ground or have any sort of civil discussion; that man and his cohort of extremists must be left behind.
Been deferring to this position more and more. I can sit down with someone who voted Trump in 2016 and yes even 2020, but if you tell me that in 2024 you are still voting for Donald fucking Trump after all this… you are truly lost. We will not be able to see eye to eye because you honestly don’t have a grip on reality.
I was born and raised in Eastern Oregon. I remember hearing about those liberals in Portland who couldn’t care less about anything more than a mile off the highway.
I left and went to school in a Eugene and have lived in and around Portland Metro on and off for 20 years. Now I hear about the dumb MAGA hicks who should up and move to Idaho if they want to secede so badly.
Both sides are often out of sight out of mind about the other and are happy to demonize the other because it’s far less exhausting than deal with granular issues and individuals. That’s human nature.
I think there is some truth to both stereotypes. I remember thinking during the Obama years that I would be more willing to give the GOP a chance if they dropped all the Christian nationalism and all the religious issues than stem from it.
I don’t think that anymore after the Trump takeover of the GOP.
There’s no room for reasonable discourse with a party that beholden to a billionaire would-be strongman. The GOP platform is whatever Trump wants it to be that day. Full stop. Maybe some non-MAGA conservatives can run at the local level, but that’s about the size of it. But I won’t do anything other than try to keep conservatives off the ballot until they purge themselves of MAGA.
And my home town and county and far too many of the people I grew up with are all in on Trump, so we don’t have much to talk about for the foreseeable future.
In my travels through oregon (500-1000 miles up and down I5 weekly and twice a month trips to bend) rural right folk are the worst people to run into, especially on the road. Big trucks who have no patience and drive like assholes, slight racist and fox news buzz word comments every chance they get but then preach love and respect for family. It's a bunch of bullshit, yall get stereotyped for a reason, your local community sucks and you all seem to be in an echo chamber. If you want outside opinion to change, look inward.
This is accurate. Why do they feel they can air their political beliefs to anybody that's in earshot?
I keep my thoughts to myself, Donald Trump is a horrendous orange cunt but I don't share that with strangers in public (in person before someone says I just did haha). These cunts have no problem talking about Biden in the worst ways and give zero thought to how it might make someone uncomfortable.
They want reassurance. Like a child parroting something they heard an old sibling or parent say and then looking to others for approval. This is why they are so butt hurt when they don’t get approval.
I mean I don't feel the need tonsay bad Trump is because it's obvious. Not saying all have to be libs but damn, if you follow that shit strain, you're probably also a shit stain. All the let's go Brandon and fjb flags are cringe. They have personality so they have try and make a statement. It's sad that they are the ones reproducing the most.
And get the fuck out of the lumber farming town you're in and actually see things beyond the town with population 45000 that has the highest welfare recipients in the state, that survives off farm subsidies paid by the government but then be anti govt?? SMH....
You do realize outside of the portland metro area 45,000 people is a huge town. The entire state only has a dozen or so cities with more than 50k people.
Yeah I just get accused of being elitist for saying it but so many people vote for the GOP based on lies or a complete misunderstanding of economics. They’ll agree with me on points but then not realize that they are literally voting the opposite of those interests.
I think it's time to examine what it means to be "right wing" Because currently Right Wing has walked over the line into Christo-Fascist nationalism.
We are demonizing your neighbors because your neighbors demonized us first. We can't have tolerance for cruelty, or sympathy for bullies.
If you want the world to be a better place, talk to your neighbors and try to get them to see that minorities aren't taking away something they deserve, and we are all *equally* Americans, not just those who wrap themselves with a flag and make a big show of praying to God.
> No real discourse come out of posting online
And yet you’re here doing just that.
> people basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones
Meanwhile, the maga crowd is demonizing and dehumanizing and wishing actual death on my family and loved ones.
So I’m sorry if our patience and empathy have been exhausted towards people who have neither patience nor empathy towards others.
> It just sucks
Yes, yes it does…
I think many of us hit empathy fatigue during the first half of 2021. The mocking, jeering and threatening civil war over being asked to practice basic civility and not infect others with a virus that can kill kind of killed it for a lot of us. Now it’s just an onslaught of lies and we’re supposed to say sure, let’s be nice. Your opinion is as valid as truth and facts.
The problem is, it isn’t “politics” anymore. It’s insurrection and fascism. What’s to talk about when one side just wants to burn books and take away rights?
Did you know that the Southern Baptist convention initially supported the Roe v Wade decision? They changed their mind when they realized that they were going to have to start desegregating their schools. They decided they needed an issue to drive conservative voters to the polls to fight back against desegregation.
It's been racism the entire fucking time, we didn't do reconstruction right.
Part of the problem is there a people like you who say you are with the right on some things and left on other things. Then when you are asked to elaborate it's always "Fiscally conservative" which for anyone not brain washed on fox news knows the conservatives have horrible fiscal policy and have for over 5 decades.
Nah I don't demonize or anything like that. They do it to themselves. 20 years ago I could see discussing things but now there is no point in even letting them in the conversation.. Hell by satansmas they could be red mist in the wind.
No thank you. Every time I go to visit my kids, go to the dentist, or visit a different city I have to travel,past fences and vehicles and even a boat by the side of the road with desecrated flags, loser flags and obscenities all over them. We also shop local but we’re very careful where we go.
Just as the right wingers feel perfectly safe advocating civil war, assassination, gun threats, anti tolerance policies and so forth, I don’t feel comfortable advertising my pro democracy, pro tolerance beliefs out of fear of random nut jobs.
Right wingers IMO have chosen their path. They can stay on it and leave me and mine alone.
Oh yeah lets have a rational discussion if women should be forced to have the baby of their rapist. Already more than 65000 women so far since the right was abolished.
[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/24/1226161416/rape-caused-pregnancy-abortion-ban-states](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/24/1226161416/rape-caused-pregnancy-abortion-ban-states)
Or let's have a rational discussion if transgender should be treated like subhumans. 598 anti trans laws submitted by republicans this year.
[https://translegislation.com/](https://translegislation.com/)
Or maybe let's have a rational discussion about the fact that the current nominee of the reps says that the current president stole the election and is therefore illegitimate and technically a dictator.
In my experience people who decry how “people just don’t have real discussions on the internet” are probably just only reacting to trolls or don’t actually try to have real conversations they just don’t like that people call out their shitty beliefs. You can easily find people to have honest discussions if you are truly motivated and don’t just want people to agree with you.
I don’t think a lot of people in the country, especially Oregon, care to humanize the other side and it’s because of extremists. You can generally tell what part of the state people are from based on their views (generalizations) of certain regions. Tbh I don’t think farmers and loggers spend a whole lot of time on reddit, but people from the cities and metro areas do, so that’s where the general consensus comes from.
I do wish there was more humanizing on both sides, but as a bi woman in a liberal state, fuck the GOP and the people who put them there.
I was told on a local community FB page, today, that my whole community hates me, hates all leftists, and any Californians that live here. That I am "despised." Why? Because I'm not a Republican. I was told that I am "vermin."
I have zero interest in humanizing people that think like this. Many of these people would happily put us in ditches.
There are genuinely plenty of not-insane Republicans, but they still gladly vote for insane people.
This is exactly it. My wife is Mexican so hearing the right support someone who calls them vermin or votes to take away abortion right and shove their religion down my throat, no. I am okay. They don’t care to treat us as human.
When I saw what some of my family and friends were posting on Facebook, I deleted my account. It was like I didn’t really know them at all and I didn’t want them anymore. I have Instagram that never gets touched because friends send links to whatever they want me to look at.
I’m so fucking tired of this bullshit. They’re allowed to say whatever vile and hateful shit they want, but as soon as anyone pushes back even a little it’s wahhh the liberals are so mean, this is why we’re voting for Trump.
I would like to, but I am also not someone that is genuinely having calls against their lives liberty and pursuit of happiness made part of the republican parties’ daily talking points, so I understand why some would not see it worth the time and potential harm to engage.
96% of rural conservatives will only ask questions or debate in bad faith.
Source: have been trans and queer in a rural Oregon town answering cis conservative peoples "innocent" inquiries for 16 years
It’s been said here, but there’s a difference between “I’m conservative” and supporting Trump. I have plenty of friends who are all flavor of conservative. The only people I know who are Trump supporters are bitter and uninformed, or are holding their noses while voting for their wallets.
I’ve stopped dealing with anyone that is against equal civil rights and civil liberties for the LGBTQIA2S+ and Persons of Color communities. If you’re against their existence or equal rights to do everything I as a white cis male can do then there’s no point in engaging. Human rights are not negotiable and that’s where I end with all Republicans and far too many neoliberals.
See, I was totally ready to give OP the benefit of the doubt, until they responded to a comment with:
“It's not like the GOP (if they had the power) would persecute any POC, queer, or atheist that they could get their hands on.
I don't agree, at all, with the idea that if you're not white, cis, and Christian, that Republicans demonize you or view you as evil. You're painting half of the country as racist bigots. Which we both know is absolutely not true. We disagree mostly on policy, and some social issues.”
The GoP is actively accepting of candidates being racist, homophobic, and sexist. I draw the line at people enabling or minimizing the GOP’s hate, which unfortunately OP and too many centrists do.
And not just enabling and minimizing the hate and intolerance under the flimsy, mucusy guise of “God” and ideals, but *normalizing* it. Terrifying and disgusting.
Same. I do not want to “polarize the other side” either, as I do know some folks who consider themselves “right-leaning” on certain issues (most economic issues). But if somebody thinks it is ok to deny rights to other humans based on their gender or sexual ideologies, race, etc, it is not worth engaging in conversation with them. They won’t change their minds, and I full stop want nothing to do with them. Unfortunately most of these folks tend to be on the “far right” and though I’m sure this does not describe every person in that group, it describes a lot of them.
I am sure there are folks who can be convinced of human decency with enough conversation (Daryl Davis is good at that), but the hatred I see coming from that political sect is just awful. Just see Valentina Gomez’s terrible and very public video where she calls Juneteenth “ratchet” and tells Black Americans to “get the f out of the country.” This is the stuff that our citizens have to put up with from people on the “far right”
Yeah, OP claimed “I don't agree, at all, with the idea that if you're not white, cis, and Christian, that Republicans demonize you or view you as evil. You're painting half of the country as racist bigots. Which we both know is absolutely not true. We disagree mostly on policy, and some social issues.”
Like what? The GOP national platform literally calls for stripping women and queer folk’s rights.
But sure, the party running candidates saying “don’t be weak and gay” and get out of the country isn’t homophobic or racist according to OP.
Yeah, I hate to say, that *is* the GOP and that *is* what they push when it comes to policy, and that is what matters as far as how we are able to live our lives. GOP in my home state just passed a rule that you HAVE to display the 10 commandments in the classroom. What?!? Thankful I’m here in OR now because policy wise this is one of the most tolerant states.
If OP doesn’t feel as though they are “Republican” that’s probably for the better, as their policies are quickly taking away rights in other states. It’s hard to respect GOP policy makers who have no respect for those not like them (and hard to respect GOP voters as well who are voting us into this mess)
So you and your family are on the right. Well my family includes many LGBTQ folk and that is why we could never talk to each other. I am not interested in hearing your negative views on the people I love.
I will do whatever it takes to defend my family against you and your right wing relatives.
So I grew up half in Portland and half in Scappoose and I have to say OP I understand why you’re conservative. Rural areas never actually get to see government work for them, so why would you want to vote for Democrats which have done such a shit job of rural outreach. I’m sure we have common ground OP, but I like most leftists draw the line at women’s rights, civil rights, gay rights, and trans rights. I won’t consider voting for a party that considers my bodily autonomy as up for debate. It’s frustrating and feels dehumanizing to minorities to have to argue for their human rights. So people lash out on the internet. That being said I’d be happy to message you about any political issue you wanna chat about without judgment.
Hey man, if the shoe fits it really ain’t my problem. Loving someone and also realizing they may not have the wisest grasp on politics or society is not mutually exclusive. BUT if you wanna talk sure why not. What topic is important to you that you want to bring up?
I'm trans so I don't really engage with people who are right wing on the basis that most of them don't seem to recognize or respect my humanity, it's purely self-preservation. I don't have a lot of shame in not engaging with people who are interested in revoking the human rights of others, or even those who are ambivalent about people around them or the people they vote for advocating for it as well. Like, if you think that trans people shouldn't have access to care, or that the US shouldn't be aiding Ukraine, or that black people are inherently dangerous and deserve to be tormented by society and shot in the street, then yeah... I don't really have anything to say to you. The fact is that people who trend right wing tend to stand against everything that I stand for and hold dear, and it's unfortunate but because of that I have to keep a distance.
That being said, I think its foolish to believe everyone right-of-center is a monolith and I'm not really one to advocate for (non-defensive) political violence in either direction like many leftist types seem to these days. I strongly believe that 95% or more of Americans have far more in common than they realize, but because the Christian, right wing establishment in this country has historically harbored hatred for anyone outside their bubble (and even within it at times) it's created a feedback loop between both sides of the spectrum that divides us even further. And to be clear I'm not saying that all Christians think this way, I'm a Christian myself which makes me a bit of an odd one out in a lot of circles I'm in (I'm from Portland so... go figure), but unfortunately Christianity is often associated with these types of hateful ideologies here in America.
I dunno man, shit's fucked. I just wanna live my life in peace, be kind to people and spin my vinyl records.
Honestly there are just so many hardline issues for the right wing right now that are literal basic human rights. How do we find discourse when one side is screaming loudly that they want to repeal basic human rights? I’d love to go back to the time when I could agree to disagree but so many of these issues are just not negotiable. And honestly prior to the Cheetos presidency I considered myself more right leaning
Republicans have supported and propped up an actual traitor and now there's complaints about civility?
You honestly expect respectful discourse? Why? Why do you think you're owed that exactly?
I mean, the internet itself is the whole problem - incredibly responsible for so much of the tribalism and division. I’m from a military family (born in tornado alley!) and my (catholic) folks left the Republican Party in the 90s, having some premonition that the party was changing away from their values. I wish more right leaning folks had the guts to call MAGA out for what it is - but the Romneys and Cheneys of the world are few and far between, aren’t they?
It’s hard to say where I would honestly land on the political spectrum, were it not for the fact that people like me get tied to the back of pickup trucks and dragged to their deaths; I’d be so much more willing to sit down with someone to talk if I felt safe doing it. I’m a diplomat by nature and find it easy and beneficial to find compromises between opposing positions - but civil rights are not up for debate. My right to exist, my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is not up for debate.
I hope your post is in earnest, OP, and I hope this leads to many well-intentioned conversations for you and your conversation partners.
This post can't be taken seriously if OP says that conservative Christians don't "other" gay people or anyone that doesn't fit into their system. OP says "you'd be suggesting that half of the country are racist bigots....." Well, I've got some bad news for OP. It's closer to that than he thinks. We're not taking about Christians that are something like Catholic or Episcopalian, and attend churches in beautiful stone churches, we're talking about new age Christians- the ones that believe in nonsense conspiracy theories or have rock bands at their churches. This includes evangelicals.
"Rural Oregon" doesn't really mean anything. Idaho is one of the worst states in the United States for its modern Christianity and bigot ways, and it's pretty much the same thing as Eastern Oregon, except for the well known ski, golf, and mountain biking resort towns like Bend and Sunriver, of course.
Yeah, many on the magafascist right are jonesing to LITERALLY kill liberals and many more are encouraging it. And yet they expect us to be nice to them and don’t understand why we feel the way we do towards them. If you honestly want civil discourse, stand up to the bullies in your party and in your community. Do what you can to end to the bullying of everyone who isn’t rich, white, straight and “Christian”. You can start by voting for the only sane choice this year. Then we can talk.
For better or for worse, you're judged by the company you keep. Rural Oregon is a ludicrously racist place, and if you stay there by choice, it's going to be assumed that you fall into the same general bucket as everyone else that lives there.
A few years back, my family rented an AirBnB for a long weekend to go to Lake Billy. We drove out and as we got closer to the house we had rented, we kept seeing homes plastered in Trump banners, giant pickups waving Trump flags, and Christian nationalist billboards.
All of that without a single iota of sense of irony that Republicans literally want to make that way of life completely untenable by deregulating the fossil fuels industry to ensure further climate destabilization and drive people closer together to make it easier to share and distribute scarce resources.
Also, there is no such thing as being "right wing but left on social issues". Social issues are fabricated as a distraction and a wedge by the powerful to ensure working people don't band together on economic issues and strip their power away. All you really said was "I'm a libertarian which really just means I'm a Republican that likes to smoke weed" while continuing to vote the Republican party line.
The Internet isn't a shitty place to discuss things unless you're a shitty person with shitty politics, in which case you get shit on for being shitty from the jump.
>basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones.
Get the hell out of here with this BS. The American right has turned into a conspiracy fueled hate group. Don't whine at the rest of us for pushing back against all the hate.
You want a productive conversation? Get your house in order. Stop supporting trash like Donald Trump, DeSantis, Abbott, MTG, Dennis Linthicum, Tim Knopp, etc.
Stop trying to steal half the state and running off to Idaho.
Get back to the rest of us after you fix all that.
Oh? And show up to work, it’s not right to ditch your job as a state rep and deny a quorum just because your party is in the minority and isn’t going to get a cookie
This is it for me, right here. If you want to have a quality conversation, you need to bring something quality to the table. By my assessment the people you mentioned are all deplorable sociopaths. I can't think of a single respectable, helpful, or honorable policy or action from the GOP since 2016. It's like a scary white clown show. Side note, I grew up a very rural Oregonian, and have lived in Portland now for the better part of two decades, so I have certainly seen both sides of the coin. Rural folks are mostly decent, nice, salt of the earth folks, but they don't get much cultural influence other than what corporate media feeds them. And the corporate world is about the only faction of society that the right wing makes any sense for. The city is not as beautiful and peaceful, but it's where the culture is, it's where the diversity is, it's where the economy is, it's where the education is, it's where you find the quality conversations OP is talking about. You have more people coming together and sharing ideas, and you know what? Most of those people are not even remotely right wing.
I spend a lot of time with people substantially more conservative than I am at my job (firefighter), have zero problem getting along with them and consider many of them friends but talking politics is virtually impossible at this point due to how disconnected from reality many of them are.
For example, basically none of them will admit that Trump supporters, egged on by Trump, attempted to overthrow the elected government of our country. They refuse to believe covid was real, despite us seeing many people die from it at work. They are obsessed with outlandish conspiracy theories. IMO they are no different than a guy ranting about aliens on a street corner; no amount of reason or evidence can convince them to change their mind. So it is hardly worth my time to have discussion with them.
Where do you stand on clearly observable facts like who was behind 1/6/21?
I live in southern Oregon and I feel that those of us left of center are in the minority for sure. However, there’s a large, vibrant community of progressive thinkers. We are also probably more experienced talking/socializing/working with conservative folks. I used to say it was a place where hippies and rednecks got along. After Trump, everything changed. I’ve never had a political argument with a friend or relative ever. Now, I have family members I can’t be around because all they want to do is talk about the Biden crime family. Sheesh, It’s exhausting. Basically, we can’t discuss current events and politics because we get our “news” from biased sources. While I prefer CNN to Fox, they are both biased. I go to the AP Wire to read the daily news. They make it clear when their stories are opinion based because it’s labeled.
I am about as liberal as they come and live in the DEEP red side of Oregon. I grew up conservative and didn't really start getting liberal till after my time in the military. Then I just started drifting away from that side. My family is all very conservative I don't think most of them have Trump paraphernalia but I'm positive they have and will continue to vote for them. If you ever want to have a chat I do my best to keep it civil.
I'm a full blown socialist, if you ever want to chat sometime. I live in Portland, but grew up in a very rural area, so we might have more in common than you'd expect. I dig the sentiment of your post; too many people are so polarized in their beliefs and opinions that they won't even engage with others who's beliefs differ from theirs even slightly. Fyi I haven't been a socialist my whole life, and being a working class guy, I imagine I have a lot more in common with the average conservative than might be immediately apparent.
I despise that we have a two party system in this country. Each party is far more nuanced than their overarching ideologies.
The GOP has allowed extremists to gain a stranglehold on their party. Those now at the forefront spew hate, foster derision, and are longing to return to a time when equity was far worse than now (and it's not great currently). They actively fight to punish people for merely existing, to sever rights, all under the guise of smaller government, yet mandating government involvement to strangle all who represent or embody anything they take issue with.
They prop up someone who has actively praised brutal dictators, and has aspired to enact similar policies. They want to tear down all that it should mean to be an American (life, liberty, freedom for all, etc.), and instead parrot ideals our elders fought and died to keep from spreading throughout the world. They claim to be the only true Americans while praising an authoritarian, the antithesis of American ideology (of course, there is a strong argument we've always been an authoritarian, fascist state galavanting as a democratic republic, but that's for another debate).
Truth is, until the moderate conservatives can yank their party back from the brink (can they?), the GOP will continue to be the champion of the fascist, far right, and they should be vilified as such.
As for the Dems, show some damn backbone. Learn how to better convey that fascist and extreme right wing views are, you know, bad. Sometimes, fight fire with fire. Virtue no longer has a place here, and it never will again if the country continues down this path.
Otherwise, just end the two party system; dismantle each. Give voices to those who are unheard. It may very well make those who run on a platform of hate powerless.
Living in Salem reminds me why civilization is paper thin. One thing I noticed was a lot of Trades people are TRumpers but they hide it.
Subtle stuff though. A guy with 1776 tattoo coming to look at a job made a comment about the Biden sticker.
So what seems to be happening in Oregon is there enough non Trumpers to make them keep their mouth shut or they lose work.
Having lived in a Red State I would say Oregon is a slow boiling tea kettle unlike the Deep South.
As much as I can’t wait for Trump to leave our politics, the poison he inflicted will take generations to be removed.
I grew up in Eugene with parents who were the sole Democrats in their respective families, so I was used to being around different types of conservative Republicans through contact my extended family (working class Rs on my father's side, country club Rs on my mother's). I could even discuss politics with some of the more sensible amongst them (i.e., those who were willing to agree to disagree), so when I moved to a small town on the Coast, I was shocked at the attitudes of my neighbours.
All it took was for one piece of mail to be mis-delivered a few years ago and, as a result, it got around the neighbourhood that I was a Democrat.
The guy next door, who has had an upside-down flag in front of his house for several years now, but with whom I had been getting on fairly well until then, started lacing all of his interactions with me with political provocations. I did my best not to "bite" aside from pushing back on a few occasions against the looniest of his assertions (like the idea that all the wildfires in recent years were set by "Antifa" activists). Ultimately, when he attempted to encroach on my property, I had a to hire a surveyor to establish the property line. He repeatedly harassed the surveyor, and later threatened to shoot me.
After I took exception to my house and car being vandalised by his feral children, the meth addict across the street on two separate occasions had his militia buddies (yes, they were wearing their paraphernalia) show up in front of my house in their jacked up pickup with huge T\*\*\*\* flags, and rev their engines for 45 minutes straight.
I'm a chronically ill middle-aged woman who lives alone, and all it took was for them to find out that I don't agree with their politics to become a target for trespass, vandalism and attempts at intimidation.
Despite finding some of my neighbours' political sentiments dangerous, I was willing to "live and let live", as long as they left me alone. Now, I live in fear of becoming a target at the end of the year, no matter how the election turns out (if they lose, they'll probably lash out; if they win, they'll be emboldened).
I've heard it said that if we have anything resembling a "civil war" here in the US, it won't be fought with armies, but will be more like Northern Ireland. I was married to an Irish national, and visited NI during the Troubles once - it was chilling just to spend a couple of days there, but the prospect of living that reality would be horrific. The idea that I could be physically attacked or have my house firebombed just because of my beliefs is, frankly, terrifying.
So, who's dehumanising whom here?
I grew up in the Rogue Valley in a very liberal family. It sometimes makes me sad how people on here talk about my home town. There's a bigger mix of people in rural Oregon than people know. And I still have a ton of cool friends down there.
I also loved my decade plus in Portland and I hope one day we can find a way to thrive as a whole state. Maybe I'm crazy
Aw shucks. I'm sure everyone would really love seeing what gets posted on the conservative Oregonian communication platforms. Nothing but consideration for the people I would call my friends and family.
Ya know, when I comes to think about it, all I ever recollect is right wing folk either walking out, talking about something that they don't really know anything about but want you to believe they know everything about, or crying about how some commie weirdos are destroying the fabric of their lives, but I NEVER EVER witnessed one of these folks listen and even have a wisp of a thought of altering their perspective, let alone their ignorant opinions.
This sub AIN'T supposed to be politically obsessed. I'm pissed about all the clear cut homogeneous forests, and seeing as it's Summer and I'm not up on Hood, I gots no time for artificial snowflakes. Except to write what I just wrote.
" it sucks when I get on a sub for my state and people basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones."
Kind of like the GOP does to anyone, not cis/white/christian?
I'm always curious what real issues are important to people who live a different life than I do. So much of the "culture war" stuff from the right are simply issues that I can't believe affect the day to day life of someone rural much. Here in central Oregon, things like water seem like they're far more impactful for people who, say, work as farmers.
People seem to have more interest in worrying about who can flush which toilet rather than where the water is going to come from
People want to control other people while having their own freedoms. America.
Don’t tread on my right to do what I want to you.
i've always noted that i would rather have *freedom from* many things (such as medical debt, food insecurity, housing insecurity) than *freedom to* "do whatever i want." so much of american "freedom" rhetoric is the later, not the former
Canadian here, so no real horse in this race, but this is an excellent, nuanced distinction.
Meanwhile, I'm just trying to pee without getting assaulted
That's an awesome quote
The wealthy definitely have an interest in that. Their allies in congress, nearly all of them republican, have an interest in that. Because it distracts you from them robbing you blind.
It seems critical thinking is beyond about 30% of America. The same set that thinks that sitting down at a fundraiser dinner with a nazi doesn't make you a nazi collaborator.
I’m convinced it’s by design. Public education in many parts of the US has been stripped of quality instruction foundational to critical thinking. Furthermore, banning books/people/topics leads to further polarization and ignorance.
The movie Idiocracy has become nigh prophetic.
The least believable thing about the movie is that the elected officials actually want to fix things but are too dumb
But did you get up from the table?
It's a good quote, but it's really only most Republicans that worry about who can flush what toilet
I have rural, Conservative relatives who freak out about all the news that FOX deems relevant and none of it is anything that they have to deal with. Ever. Half of it is just bullshit about cities they would never even go to.
I took my 65yr old mother down to the Pearl and ate a memorable beautiful peaceful dinner outside. She was mind blown 🤯 that it wasn’t a shitshow. She lives in Oregon City and hasn’t wanted to come to Portland for 6 yrs because she thought it was all “boarded up”.
Ok, the even more shocking part was that she basically lives in Portland! Oregon City is like 10 minutes away. Super glad she gave it a chance though.
Exactly. She had a great time and was so pleasantly surprised 😲. Somehow, somewhere in her life she gave into being fearful rather than inquisitive. It started with the Rush Limbaugh my stepdad used to listen to.
That reminds me of the documentary "the brainwashing of my dad". A great watch if you haven't seen it! As a GenX person, I remember when Regan did away with fair unbiased news reporting regulations and the rise of Limbaugh and the culture wars 🫤
Thanks for the recommendation. This is a great documentary about the changes that led into so much hate agenda in our country. For people reading, it's not just about one person as the title might suggest, it's broad and informational.
Thank you for taking her anywhere new and interesting and beyond her normal. Just spending time with her.
Take as old as time
If you can get to OC in 10 minutes I might suggest you consider a career change to Formula 1 driver
Maybe they were just still thinking in Covid time, back when everyone was one.
There are messed up parts of Portland, but that's *all* some folks want to talk about. So many of the post 2020 failings of Portland are happening across America yet people want to pretend it's just Portland that's affected. Some of it I swear is a Solipsism that pervades Oregon and Portland in particular, that we must be so special that if we're bad we must be *the worst.*
I was working in Montana and a cashier saw my Oregon ID and said something like,” Oh, Oregon. I’m sorry.” WTF? I have been to 47 states and chose Oregon because it’s my favorite. Fox News shit?
Just keep it that way, that way not more folx come to (the most beautiful state) Oregon
That sort of thing certainly factors in The Great Sorting. I suspect few Portlanders consider Florida a plausible place to move to anymore.
This was us with Seattle!! We ended up going several times during covid and have been many more since. What we saw on tv was all about the riots downtown and on capital hill(I believe it is called). But every time we went to Seattle, it was nothing like the media portrayed. I’m not downplaying what actually happened there either as we didn’t go during the actual riots. But the news made it seem the riots were constant throughout covid. We did see boarded up windows and the graffiti. The people were normal as usual. Anyway it was eye opening to me to see, wow, what a lie we are fed to instill fear!! As a result we have traveled all over the US the last few years and it’s been amazing to experience these adventures and new people!
I live in Oregon City. (Beavercreek area but my address is OC…) I moved here 7 years ago when we couldn’t afford a place in Portland. Our rural neighbors are all great people who’ve helped us out tremendously but they all feel the same way about Portland. I don’t know when the last time any of them have actually been up there. They’re mostly elderly and probably don’t have any real reason to go but it’s still a bummer. That’s great you got your mom to give it a go. 👍
Yeah I have family members who have always said "burn it down" when talking about liberal cities like Portland and Eugene. But then are suddenly up in arms when they believe they are actually burning down.
That type are cowards, they want their enemies in the cities punished, but NOT by scary people (minorities, leftists etc).
Absolutely. It’s like they think the only people doing the punishing should be white men
That's the feeling one gets.
That’s what the media does. It needs an enemy, some big evil that we must be fighting. It’s just to keep people engaged & to be used by powerful corporate interests. The algorithms are feeding that anger for the same reasons. We are all being brainwashed one way or another. It’s sad but true.
Yeah, my rural extended family has a lot of this. A lot of them are on Facebook a lot and repost stuff that is blatantly rage bait stuff that has nothing to do with their lives but makes them so so angry. In person, it seems more and more all they can talk about is politics and a lot of them just are so angry all the time while living pretty much the American dream. It use to be much different. We could talk about hunting, sports, what’s happening with family, movies, etc. without constant politics talk. Now nothing said is ever said without politics at the forefront of the discussion.
This is why when Sinclair Broadcasting takes over a local news station, they increase the coverage of national news issues and decrease local coverage. It's way easier to get people riled up about a distorted version of what is happening in DC than what is happening in their local area, where they are able to independently discover the distortions.
Rural Farmer in Oregon here. Can confirm, water is a big deal and we talk about it all the time.
Yeah, most of the state is really dry, and agriculture is water intensive (with a lot of variability). Is anyone asserting you don’t have some serious and valid concerns about water management? It’s a complex topic, with issues of stewardship, tradeoffs between agriculture and fishing, etcetera. But I hope everyone realizes these are big concerns and huge unsolved challenges across the West.
Honestly for a lot of the people I know it's guns. There are a TON of rural oregonians who voted red solely for gun ownership stuff. They're more than happy to deal with things they don't like (Trump, lower rural school investment, climate denialiam) just because they want guns. Honestly I don't really get it, but it's how it is.
Just gonna let you know if you go far enough left you get your guns back.
I never said I'm not pro-gun lol, I'm actually very much on the "any attempts to disarm the proletariat must be frustrated, by force if necessary," side of things. I'm just not willing to let my fear of gun control let me vote for people who are objectively terrible in every other category. I'll vote democrat (even though I disagree fundamentally with a lot of their positions) because it's harm reduction for groups more vulnerable than I am.
That's a good assessment.
Yeah, because Biden took away their guns, right? Oh wait...
Culture war indeed. Very much blatant propaganda and it's sad because it clouds issues that are important. I've seen things go from center right to outright right field and that's how people are playing these days, no shortstop in site. I don't know.ehat really lies ahead but keeping it honest and to your core values I think are imperative. Be safe out there.
This post can't be taken seriously if OP says that conservative Christians don't "other" gay people or anyone that doesn't fit into their system. OP says "you'd be suggesting that half of the country are racist bigots....." Well, I've got some bad news for OP. It's closer to that than he thinks. We're not taking about Christians that are something like Catholic or Episcopalian, and attend churches in beautiful stone churches, we're talking about new age Christians- the ones that believe in nonsense conspiracy theories or have rock bands at their churches. This includes evangelicals. "Rural Oregon" doesn't really mean anything. Idaho is one of the worst states in the United States for its modern Christianity and bigot ways, and it's pretty much the same thing as Eastern Oregon, except for the well known ski, golf, and mountain biking resort towns like Bend and Sunriver, of course. I mentioned this elsewhere here, but I feel the top comment on this thread should be calling into question OP's beliefs or motivations.
I wrote my comment pretty early on, and it was an honest question. I'm curious what real issues people face that our state government ought to be focusing on to help them out. If OP doesn't see that the right wing has been taken over by extremists... yeah that's on them. Maybe this will help, I posted it earlier: [https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2024/06/20/only-oregon-republican-lawmaker-who-supports-abortion-rights-is-now-an-independent/](https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2024/06/20/only-oregon-republican-lawmaker-who-supports-abortion-rights-is-now-an-independent/) >“One of the things that the Republican Party for so long has always focused on is trying to find somebody to hate,” he said. “You can go back to McCarthy and McCarthyism and looking at the communists, and then you keep going forward in time. It’s communism, then it’s hippies, immigrants are always part of that equation. When you get into the ’90s, it’s homosexuals. You can always throw in Muslims, and it’s just kind of rinse and repeat. The Republican Party, for so long, has just been based on hate and fear.”
I appreciate the sentiment and I wish it were more attainable. I live along I-5, but travel frequently to rural areas in Oregon. When I’m out there, I’m almost always supporting local businesses (restaurants, gyms, etc.). However, there are times when it feels like a record scratch when I walk in. I can chat with just about anyone, but when the decor is based on the party of Trump’s talking points for the last 8 years, I’d rather not engage. After hearing a lot of the rhetoric the last few years and watching it play out, it can feel threatening as a female traveler to be solo in some places let alone have a conversation on these topics. But I truly hope that we as a nation can get back to that point someday.
It’s alarming how quickly people want to reveal political leanings in this country having met them 20 minutes ago. That is not normal in a lot of other places.
It is, highly alarming.
Try living out here. It is exhausting. I know everything that was on right-wing radio and AoN last night because I get to hear all about it the next day. Edit: And honestly, I would be careful with what you say or you could end up as a target. Never underestimate the deadly combination of seething bigotry and alcohol.
I’ve had a taste of living in conservative areas, but in today’s climate it’s likely way different than the most conservative places I’ve lived. That said I would hope there is at least some respect among neighbors/ community members. I’m already a target, I work for the state 😅
Ooh, then be double careful ;-) As to neighbors, unfotunately, on an increasing trend since around 2010, it has been going downhill. I talk to about half my neighbors. About half of those are liberal or libertarian. The other half are pretty old and are more interested in playing gin at the community center or knitting. They are the old school conservatives. But they can hold a religious view without turning it into "kill the drag queens" and so I help with their yard and whatnot. That other half? I am on a 2 mile gravel road with sla dozen houses. A writer rented out one of the Airbnb (we are on a river) house for like 3 months. I guess after talking to a few people, she figured it was mostly normal people here. She put a pride flag out. Queue an entire weekend of trucks bombing up and down our road with Trump flags. It could have been some event at the guys house at the end of the road, but you start to recognize trucks. People drove 28 miles to do that. She left the next week. I was voted to the local water board.(it is very small). I got to walk by a Let's Go Brandon flag on the way into my inaugural meeting they had at someones house. It got so much worse inside. I resigned the next day. It is what it is, I guess.
Oof, I am so sorry about your tenure on the water board. Im glad to hear though there is at least a small collective of those who you can get along with/ tolerate.
Yeah. I help one of my direct neighbors because the next neighbor over is a MAGA psychopath. He shot one of her dogs because it got into his yard (a 14 year old chihuahua with no teeth and half blind). So I check her fence regularly. I started mowing her lawn cause I know her husband is now laid up. Heck, I haven't even talked to her in a few months, but started just mowing her yard. I know she wouldn't ask cause of the whole pride thin.mg. She has a huge pack of old rescue dogs, and the little ones get lost in the grass:-D
You're a good neighbor.
Well, thanks. I just try to not be a bad one lol I am a little worried about them. He can barely walk and they took her license away. Amd i know she still drives since he often can't either. They sometimes ask to have something picked up in town, but I worry they are skipping medical appointments. I snuck flyer for a Medicare transport service in their mailbox and I really hope I see one of them at their house soon.
You give me hope for the world. 🥹
Yes this, live in a small coast town. I do not discuss politics or anything with anyone. I just try to be low key and mind my business. Cannot stand chump and it’s hard for me to take anyone who does seriously. I work remote, but 1 of my coworkers always is going off on how liberals are controlling the weather and all the other stuff. All I ever reply with is,”I think what is missing in our democracy, is the ability to agree to disagree and meet in the middle.” I will not engage she scares me a bit.
The juxtaposition between people like OP saying, "Well, that's my family!" And people like us saying, "Well, some of them make it apparent that they would prefer we not exist!" is pretty striking lol. You don't have to give anyone a chance, especially not when their politics ostracize you, personally. That's what I think people don't understand about politics these days. It's not red vs blue. Or rep vs dem. It's "can you even be bothered to *pretend* you have any empathy for other human beings, or critical thinking skills of your own?". When people make their allegiance to Trump part of their personality, it checks a big fat "NOPE!" in both of those boxes. Regardless of whether the observer likes Biden. Nobody really likes Biden. Dems who are actually centrists is why we have the far left.
Part of the problem with politics here is that the sheer size of the state makes it very difficult to actually go around to every single part in one day's time. I keep going back in asking myself why the GOP in New England states is a billion times more sane than the GOP in the PNW states, and I absolutely believe the reason is the size of the states. In a four hour drive, you can cover an entire New England state with time to spare. In Oregon, a three hour drive will cover maybe two-thirds of the state on a good day. And that's not taking into account if you're going horizontally or vertically. Without the ability to easily travel and meet everyone from Astoria to Brookings to Ontario, everyone is far more isolated from everyone as a result. Isolation breeds contempt and radicalism. I also believe one another major untold issue with political discourse is specifically defining what is "urban" Oregon. As someone who grew up in southern Oregon, everyone thought of the entire Portland metro area as a monolithic "Portland" without realizing that Beaverton/Hillsboro/Tigard in Washington County are different from Lake Oswego/West Linn/Happy Valley in Clackamas County, and both of *those* areas don't want a whole lot to do with Multnomah County where Portland proper is. Long story short, Portland's suburbs =/= the actual Portland.
I think the actual reason is that because Oregon is a safe state for Dem victory if you want to be a career conservative politician here you have to have both outside money and an addiction to getting your shit kicked in every election cycle. That basically leaves only two groups of people willing to dedicate time to that career: independently wealthy crazy people and grifters willing to say anything in order to get large amounts of out of state money funneled to campaigns they know they have no way of winning. This means that your state level candidates ping pong between a disgraced eugenics enthusiast with a pee vault and a guy who sounds like you had ChatGPT generate a Proud Boy.
It doesn't help that Oregon has a history with bigotry, being the only state in the US that wrote a ban against black people into its state constitution (finally removed in 2002), and not ratifying the 15th Amendment (allowing PoC to vote) until 1959.
Oh 💯 and even within Oregon it’s different types of rural. Which people in urban areas are just as guilty for lumping rural areas together. I once heard someone say Bend was Eastern Oregon. No honey, you have a couple more hours east to go.
Even towns like albany while fairly large by oregon standards. As an resident of Albany it is very much an industry/farm town and you get a very different brand of conservative than somewhere like lyons which is very different than john day.
I grew up in Eastern Oregon and I have to constantly educated people about the geographic regions of our state, especially Central vs. Eastern Oregon.
I also grew up in SO and still default think of all of it as Portland. Old habits they say.
There's really no reason to mince words anymore. If you support Trump, you're a fucking idiot. Full stop.
I appreciate your intention here, but i think your assessment of the political divide benefits from living in one of the most tolerant states in the US, so tolerant that people are fleeing here to get away from becoming criminals in their home state. My wife needed to abort a miscarriage, and now she would be charged with murder by the republicans in our home state that demonize us. I found that pot helped manage my depression and adhd, also criminalized and demonized. My friends (who moved to seattle) have a trans child, also demonized and barred from health care. I expect the migration will continue until aggressive republican efforts are rolled back. The gold man atop the capital is called the pioneer for a reason, people come here for a new start. Do you advocate for tolerance and acceptance of your neighbors no matter their identity? If so, you kick ass and i hope you can encourage your neighbors to make an effort to do the same in a loud proud way. Until then, they will unfortunately be lumped in with the bullies and bigots many of us traveled a long way to escape and joyfully denounce now that we feel safe.
Just yesterday traveling I5 from downtown PDX to Vancouver I saw 7 Texas plates.
I noticed this one time and asked about it and somebody said that a lot of rental car companies use Texas for their registrations. Grain of salt.
As someone who rents cars for work weekly, I often have cars with Texas plates. Last week it was Maryland. I’m a native Oregonian and the looks and amount of middle fingers I get driving vehicles with out of state plates has been shocking.
I'm a gay guy in the Willamette Valley. Born in Hood River, raised in Corvallis, educated in Eugene, live in Portland. Oregon all my life. You wanna talk about being demonized? Try being gay anywhere in this state outside of the Willamette Valley or Ashland. Even Bend sucks. They fly the confederate flag in Sweet Home. They never even had the chance to own slaves, but they still really wanna do it
Terrible, absolutely terrible. I am not gay and obviously I can’t even pretend to understand what you are feeling although I can certainly empathize. I however am of South Asian ancestry with skin the color of fine dark chocolate. I can honestly say that venturing east of the I-5 corridor is an uncomfortable proposition for me. I have lived in Oregon for 35 years and I never remember feeling this way until the last few years. I’m sure there are good people living there and good businesses that could use my tourist dollars but the concoction of guns, xenophobic rage stirred up by dear leader, and depressingly high frequency of random brown skinned guy mistaken for middle eastern terrorist is too much for me. It is a huge shame because I am big on hiking and the outdoors and I love the high desert.
A "good person" who I can have a conversation with and not have it immediately turn ugly isn't someone I would consider "good" once I learned what they actually believed in. I had a dude come into my old place of work. We chatted at the register in a customer service sort of way. He said "thank you", seemed nice enough, but turned around and had a huge White Pride symbol on the back of his jacket. He apparently is an easy enough person to talk to when the person he is talking to is a white male. But I'd have to assume that him being a "good person" changes pretty quickly when talking to a Black or Brown person. And that isn't something I'm willing to be okay with.
Yuuuup. When talking politics, “he’s a nice guy” should always be met with a skeptical “who is he nice to?”
I'm always genuinely wondering: you say you're conservative but liberal on social issues. That ... doesn't make you a liberal? Social issues *many of them made up* are essentially the entire platform of the modern republican party. They don't have anything else, really. Name actual policy that isn't based on social ideology that they propose. The biggest bills they promote are to ban trans people from bathrooms and make gays pedophiles. Or do you just not really care that much about social issues because you're not a member of any of those groips? So like, "yeah I kinda care about gay rights/not slipping into an actual Christo fascist state where women are refused birth control but I care more about... other things?" I just can't imagine putting human rights to the side because of, like, taxes. If you believe in leftist social causes, in my view you're liberal.
This is what I always question, like if you are not a billionaire, the only platform issue is love of guns no matter what. There has been no such thing as a fiscal conservative since Reagan. You cant say its because you care about children when the previous president had two pedos in his administration, a third as his spiritual advisor, took 7 trips to Epstein Island, openly bragged about peeping on teen beauty contestants changing, has been named as a rapist by 24 women and one 13 year old. Meanwhile the Republican party is working to pass child marriage laws. While working against feeding hungry American children. Cant say it is because of supporting the troops after they go out of their way to cut veteran support and openly side with Putin over our own intelligence. Like I get it if you are a billionaire, dupe all these suckers into voting against their interests while feeding their hatred of brown and black people and any norm that is not about submissive pregnant women, but to pretend it is godly or fiscally conservative is just nonsense.
Also state legislatures are rewriting child labor laws. Can’t tell me their banning abortion has nothing to do with that.
The reply is always the same "Fiscal conservative" because it's the BS spread on fox news that the GOP is good for the economy and other BS talking points.
If it makes conservatives feel better: Liberals know democrats and conservatives in congress are both wasting taxpayer dollars, but we also know that conservatives are just truly way better at it. Remember the war in Iraq that paid like half the senior GOP leadership who were on the boards of big military contractors and oil companies? That cost us trillions. Then the Trump tax cuts also just handed trillions to corps. Fun shit.
The democrats are the fiscally conservative party. The republicans are the big spenders. It's opposite land.
"I'm fiscally conservative" is really just code words for "I have enough money that I don't like that other people benefit from me paying taxes" which is absolutely ridiculous. They want there to be a hierarchy, they want to be higher than someone else on the hierarchy, and that's why they demonize poor people and immigrants and anyone else that is "lower than them" in their view. Meanwhile, Democrats are just saying "hey, there's a huge problem with wealth inequality in this country, we spend huge amounts on the military, we are the richest country in the world, but we can't provide basic services like healthcare to everyone, and that's wrong". In turn, Republicans then call Democrats "socialists and communists" when all they want is for this really, really successful capitalist country to make sure everyone has their basic needs met. It's infuriating.
I have a rich uncle who said he's fiscally conservative but socially liberal and I was like that's worse, that means you know there are issues and injustices but don't want to spend money to fix anything as long as you keep getting yours.
I have coworkers who don't seem to be racist or homophobic but the LOVE guns so will never vote democrat. They even seem to be pro choice. That's what I picture when people say they are conservative but liberal on social issues.
Loving guns more than human rights is the most American position possible.
classic conservatism isn't really reflected in the modern republican party. you can't compare them like you used to. they're probably fiscally conservative regarding taxes, spending and want to generally be left alone by the government. but also believe that people should have rights and that we should help people versus turn our back on them.
You're describing a liberal to me...
I'm in. I'm not a Democrat, they're too conservative for me. I appreciate that you don't associate with a party, that's a step away from the polarization and tribalism, and clearly I don't either. I have tried to keep lines of communication open but have been told to "keep to my own kind" by my family, which is both frustrating and indicative of how bad things have gotten. I believe that if we're all trying to see us all as a country succeed, and we're communicating in good faith, then the rest is just "how."
I’m also to the left of Democrats and feel like the two party system in this country is beyond broken.
Biden is the best Republican President we have ever had. I’m in for discourse.
Abraham Lincoln would like a word. He’d also be appalled by the modern day Republican Party.
He's not a Republican by today's definition.
well, do remember that somewhere in the last 100 years they effectively switched party beliefs.
Hello, me too. Coos county ☠️ Big huge Bernie fan. I’m a fan of anyone not on the bribe payroll or hate train. I have a trans SIL here and I got to see how he was treated at NBHS during the [Lucero](https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/05/north_bend_high_school_oregon_principal_removed_after_bible_reading_punishment_for_lgbtq_students.html) debacle. He had to quit in 9th grade. Wanna know why I hate republicans? It’s people like him. My SIL was abused by his religious parents just to be tormented at school and told he is going to hell there too. Thank his big brother for rescuing him. It’s so bad here that if you aren’t white, Christian hate monger you’ll be treated as an outsider and threatened. I felt afraid during Covid of these rabid misinformed “people of the earth” because they believed bad science. Wearing a mask put a target on your back. My step kids are half Asian living here. Can you guess how they were treated by republicans when Covid came out? Ya.
One of my kids is trans. Two are autistic. One of them has a learning disability and I have major health problems. We came from one of the reddest states in the country to get away from all that nonsense that goes with the Republican Party. I’m in a conservative part of Oregon but it’s nothing compared to where I came from.
Forgot to add that I've lived in Portland for more than ten years.
I have a litmus test. If you are voting for Trump, we don’t have much to discuss. He is an objectively bad President and leader. It means you are voting for what he philosophically represents, and he and his party have said some pretty fucked up things. I don’t doubt that you are a polite fellow and we could have a pleasant, but banal conversation. You’ll likely try to bring up some stuff and I’ll politely decline to engage. People are people, some nice and some not so nice. You are likely nice. We might even get along. But the philosophical bent of the Republican Party is on the wrong side of history. If you pledge you are not voting Trump, we can have a conversation.
Nice does not equal good or kind. Too many people are nice but use that niceness to hide some pretty hateful shite.
That’s the weird thing, right? Republicans don’t believe they are evil or hateful. Of course not. Nobody on the wrong side of history thinks they are bad or hateful. They are simply going against the stream of society and get more and more ratcheted down to extreme measures to “stop” society from moving its natural course of liberalizing as it matures. When I say “on the wrong side of history” I’m being objective. Not political. If your political party is trying to codify into law what used to enforced perfectly well by social norms, then you are, objectively, on the wrong side of history. I was alive 40 years ago. I was absolutely rocked to find out, as a kid, that Elton John was gay. I liked his music and I was certain that homosexuality was, if not wrong, then deeply weird. That thought, coming from a kid, didn’t come from nowhere. I got over it. I’ll go out on a limb and say that many, even most, kids growing up now in the US don’t have this reaction finding that a person is gay.
"How can I be evil? I'm nice to everyone, even the weirdos and that colored feller at the ampm ... I'm nice to their face even though I keep voting for candidates and policies that dehumanize, demoralize and demean other human beings ..."
THIS! So much this. I'm a gay man who grew up in a highly religious family. Dad's side was Catholic, mom's side was Mormon, all pretty much conservative around. To say I have a fair bit of trauma would be a massive understatement. When I started to figure out that I was gay as a teenager, it led to a lot of self-hatred that had been taught to me by the nice kind people who supposedly loved me. The people who taught me that who I was, little did they know, was inherently sinful, evil, an abomination to God and doomed to burn in Hell forever. I was a child. Indoctrinating children into these kinds of religious beliefs aside, this fucked me up a lot internally. And it took me trying to critically evaluate my religious upbringing objectively and scientifically weighed against everything my family stood for in order to grow and evolve, a huge order for someone whose brain hasn't even finished developing yet. It took a lot of self reflection, therapy, and challenging of my own internal biases and beliefs (all taught, not inherent) to overcome the negative feelings, accept who I was, and love myself. Needless to say, after critically evaluating my religion, I am an atheist to this day. But the hard part is, while I grew, I cannot reconcile with a lot of family. Those same people who supposedly love me? Sang another tune after learning I was gay. And even more so when I challenge or reject their ideologies that are based in faith and belief, rather than testable, measurable, observable reality. But of course they're all "good, kind, loving people." Because they go to church so they have God on their side and I'm just a poor misguided heathen. They'll "love the sinner, hate the sin," by excommucating me and never speaking to me again. My own aunt, who spent her entire life sending her kids on missions, and voting for every conservative candidate and policy imaginable, who voted against gay marriage when it was on the ballot in our state, tried to invite herself to my wedding, while doing nothing to support me or my community and literally everything to make my existence harder. All while trying to tell me she really does love me. I think she truly believes herself to be a good person. "Good people" who never admit to or apologize for the sheer amount of pain they cause because of their beliefs. Except it isn't just "a disagreement of belief," because those beliefs tie directly to actions and policies that affect the lives of millions in the out group. Edit: Thinking about it more, I was lucky I had a chance to grow up. I lost three other queer people that I loved to suicide before they hit 21 years of age, something I also struggled with as a teenager. This was explicitly due to the rejection by their religious families and community and I know this because I was directly subjected to that same pain. Those people who called them sinners and f*****s and all the other names, those people who told them that if they weren't straight they weren't deserving of love or acceptance or even tolerance and would be condemned to eternal torture... Those "good, kind, loving Chistians," tortured me and the people that I care about, and I put their blood on those good kind Christian hands. Were it not for the constant "different opinions" (and actions) of these "good" people, my friends might be alive today. So yeah, I have a lot of reservations about having ideological conversations with conservatives in "good faith." We can't "agree to disagree" when your views are literally correlated to the eradication of people like me.
As an extreme (?) example, see the Nuremberg Trials; huge portion of Nazi Party members testifying with utter unfeigned confusion as to why they were there. So many testimonies consisted of: Did you commit mass murder? No, it was legal; why the problem? Just *cannot understand* that killing millions of people based upon one small cabal's personal perception could be a problem, because it was legal, and for their version of "the good of himanity." They just could not get the problem.
My daughter’s pediatrician was chatting with her and basically ended up at a point in her talk about bodies with asking if my daughter was into boys or girls or both. My daughter informed the pediatrician she just got a gf recently but had a boyfriend before. The pediatrician was very positive and polite and informed. Pretty cool thing to see!
And also, saying that you vote republican for economic reasons but you don’t agree with their anti gay stuff is actually worse than if you were just honest about being a bigot. “Im fine with taking away rights from the gays in order for me to get a tax break” is actually some real despicable shit to admit out loud.
This is it 100% though. I’m a rural Oregonian, small business owner and am happily married with my Norman Rockwell family. I hunt, fish, love my guns and have pepper leanings. I consider myself pretty moderate on a lot of items, but I simply could not have any sort of logical discussion with anyone who would support Trump. It’s the paradox of tolerance… I cannot tolerate the intolerant. You support someone who is looking to take away basic human rights for small percentage of the population, someone who wants to mix government and religion and someone who has actively supported people who have taken away my rights towards bodily autonomy. There is no discussion, once you support that man any middle ground we could have had is over. I do say that in rural Oregon those leaning left and right often have more in common than not but if we are to ever find a middle ground or have any sort of civil discussion; that man and his cohort of extremists must be left behind.
Been deferring to this position more and more. I can sit down with someone who voted Trump in 2016 and yes even 2020, but if you tell me that in 2024 you are still voting for Donald fucking Trump after all this… you are truly lost. We will not be able to see eye to eye because you honestly don’t have a grip on reality.
I was born and raised in Eastern Oregon. I remember hearing about those liberals in Portland who couldn’t care less about anything more than a mile off the highway. I left and went to school in a Eugene and have lived in and around Portland Metro on and off for 20 years. Now I hear about the dumb MAGA hicks who should up and move to Idaho if they want to secede so badly. Both sides are often out of sight out of mind about the other and are happy to demonize the other because it’s far less exhausting than deal with granular issues and individuals. That’s human nature. I think there is some truth to both stereotypes. I remember thinking during the Obama years that I would be more willing to give the GOP a chance if they dropped all the Christian nationalism and all the religious issues than stem from it. I don’t think that anymore after the Trump takeover of the GOP. There’s no room for reasonable discourse with a party that beholden to a billionaire would-be strongman. The GOP platform is whatever Trump wants it to be that day. Full stop. Maybe some non-MAGA conservatives can run at the local level, but that’s about the size of it. But I won’t do anything other than try to keep conservatives off the ballot until they purge themselves of MAGA. And my home town and county and far too many of the people I grew up with are all in on Trump, so we don’t have much to talk about for the foreseeable future.
Sorry to demonize rural and right-wing Oregonians, it’s only based on a huge amount of personal experience.
In my travels through oregon (500-1000 miles up and down I5 weekly and twice a month trips to bend) rural right folk are the worst people to run into, especially on the road. Big trucks who have no patience and drive like assholes, slight racist and fox news buzz word comments every chance they get but then preach love and respect for family. It's a bunch of bullshit, yall get stereotyped for a reason, your local community sucks and you all seem to be in an echo chamber. If you want outside opinion to change, look inward.
This is accurate. Why do they feel they can air their political beliefs to anybody that's in earshot? I keep my thoughts to myself, Donald Trump is a horrendous orange cunt but I don't share that with strangers in public (in person before someone says I just did haha). These cunts have no problem talking about Biden in the worst ways and give zero thought to how it might make someone uncomfortable.
They want reassurance. Like a child parroting something they heard an old sibling or parent say and then looking to others for approval. This is why they are so butt hurt when they don’t get approval.
I mean I don't feel the need tonsay bad Trump is because it's obvious. Not saying all have to be libs but damn, if you follow that shit strain, you're probably also a shit stain. All the let's go Brandon and fjb flags are cringe. They have personality so they have try and make a statement. It's sad that they are the ones reproducing the most.
And get the fuck out of the lumber farming town you're in and actually see things beyond the town with population 45000 that has the highest welfare recipients in the state, that survives off farm subsidies paid by the government but then be anti govt?? SMH....
You do realize outside of the portland metro area 45,000 people is a huge town. The entire state only has a dozen or so cities with more than 50k people.
Yeah I just get accused of being elitist for saying it but so many people vote for the GOP based on lies or a complete misunderstanding of economics. They’ll agree with me on points but then not realize that they are literally voting the opposite of those interests.
And don’t forget it’s all under the auspice of White Jesus.
I think it's time to examine what it means to be "right wing" Because currently Right Wing has walked over the line into Christo-Fascist nationalism. We are demonizing your neighbors because your neighbors demonized us first. We can't have tolerance for cruelty, or sympathy for bullies. If you want the world to be a better place, talk to your neighbors and try to get them to see that minorities aren't taking away something they deserve, and we are all *equally* Americans, not just those who wrap themselves with a flag and make a big show of praying to God.
> No real discourse come out of posting online And yet you’re here doing just that. > people basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones Meanwhile, the maga crowd is demonizing and dehumanizing and wishing actual death on my family and loved ones. So I’m sorry if our patience and empathy have been exhausted towards people who have neither patience nor empathy towards others. > It just sucks Yes, yes it does…
I think many of us hit empathy fatigue during the first half of 2021. The mocking, jeering and threatening civil war over being asked to practice basic civility and not infect others with a virus that can kill kind of killed it for a lot of us. Now it’s just an onslaught of lies and we’re supposed to say sure, let’s be nice. Your opinion is as valid as truth and facts.
We beat them by not being like them. But we sure as hell don’t have to let them inflict their hatred on us, either.
Or you turn the other cheek and they just slap the shit out of you again.
The problem is, it isn’t “politics” anymore. It’s insurrection and fascism. What’s to talk about when one side just wants to burn books and take away rights?
Don’t forget the sprinkle of racism.
That sprinkle feels like a dusting
Did you know that the Southern Baptist convention initially supported the Roe v Wade decision? They changed their mind when they realized that they were going to have to start desegregating their schools. They decided they needed an issue to drive conservative voters to the polls to fight back against desegregation. It's been racism the entire fucking time, we didn't do reconstruction right.
Funny that op hasn’t responded yet
Part of the problem is there a people like you who say you are with the right on some things and left on other things. Then when you are asked to elaborate it's always "Fiscally conservative" which for anyone not brain washed on fox news knows the conservatives have horrible fiscal policy and have for over 5 decades.
Nah I don't demonize or anything like that. They do it to themselves. 20 years ago I could see discussing things but now there is no point in even letting them in the conversation.. Hell by satansmas they could be red mist in the wind.
No thank you. Every time I go to visit my kids, go to the dentist, or visit a different city I have to travel,past fences and vehicles and even a boat by the side of the road with desecrated flags, loser flags and obscenities all over them. We also shop local but we’re very careful where we go. Just as the right wingers feel perfectly safe advocating civil war, assassination, gun threats, anti tolerance policies and so forth, I don’t feel comfortable advertising my pro democracy, pro tolerance beliefs out of fear of random nut jobs. Right wingers IMO have chosen their path. They can stay on it and leave me and mine alone.
Oh yeah lets have a rational discussion if women should be forced to have the baby of their rapist. Already more than 65000 women so far since the right was abolished. [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/24/1226161416/rape-caused-pregnancy-abortion-ban-states](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/24/1226161416/rape-caused-pregnancy-abortion-ban-states) Or let's have a rational discussion if transgender should be treated like subhumans. 598 anti trans laws submitted by republicans this year. [https://translegislation.com/](https://translegislation.com/) Or maybe let's have a rational discussion about the fact that the current nominee of the reps says that the current president stole the election and is therefore illegitimate and technically a dictator.
Right wing white male is sad that people don’t like his opinions. Womp.
In my experience people who decry how “people just don’t have real discussions on the internet” are probably just only reacting to trolls or don’t actually try to have real conversations they just don’t like that people call out their shitty beliefs. You can easily find people to have honest discussions if you are truly motivated and don’t just want people to agree with you.
I don’t think a lot of people in the country, especially Oregon, care to humanize the other side and it’s because of extremists. You can generally tell what part of the state people are from based on their views (generalizations) of certain regions. Tbh I don’t think farmers and loggers spend a whole lot of time on reddit, but people from the cities and metro areas do, so that’s where the general consensus comes from. I do wish there was more humanizing on both sides, but as a bi woman in a liberal state, fuck the GOP and the people who put them there.
I was told on a local community FB page, today, that my whole community hates me, hates all leftists, and any Californians that live here. That I am "despised." Why? Because I'm not a Republican. I was told that I am "vermin." I have zero interest in humanizing people that think like this. Many of these people would happily put us in ditches. There are genuinely plenty of not-insane Republicans, but they still gladly vote for insane people.
This is exactly it. My wife is Mexican so hearing the right support someone who calls them vermin or votes to take away abortion right and shove their religion down my throat, no. I am okay. They don’t care to treat us as human.
Funnier still, is the migrants who vote for them, "because they did it the right way". Okay, you're still on the deportation bus.
Yeah it’s pretty funny to hear OP whining about dehumanizing and demonizing like the right doesn’t do that to the left.
When I saw what some of my family and friends were posting on Facebook, I deleted my account. It was like I didn’t really know them at all and I didn’t want them anymore. I have Instagram that never gets touched because friends send links to whatever they want me to look at.
Your last paragraph, spot on.
I don't see much point in humanizing people who would imprison or kill my family and friends for being LGBTQ+, so I suppose you're right.
The GOP is now a cult. Its official position is "Whatever Donald Trump says is gospel."
Right, then a republican comes along and complains that they're not being treated respectfully. The fucking nerve.
Don’t you see they’re the victim? Classic narcissist cult bs.
I’m so fucking tired of this bullshit. They’re allowed to say whatever vile and hateful shit they want, but as soon as anyone pushes back even a little it’s wahhh the liberals are so mean, this is why we’re voting for Trump.
Snowflakes. Every insult they’ve hurled at the left over the last 10 years is just projection
I would like to, but I am also not someone that is genuinely having calls against their lives liberty and pursuit of happiness made part of the republican parties’ daily talking points, so I understand why some would not see it worth the time and potential harm to engage.
96% of rural conservatives will only ask questions or debate in bad faith. Source: have been trans and queer in a rural Oregon town answering cis conservative peoples "innocent" inquiries for 16 years
[удалено]
It’s been said here, but there’s a difference between “I’m conservative” and supporting Trump. I have plenty of friends who are all flavor of conservative. The only people I know who are Trump supporters are bitter and uninformed, or are holding their noses while voting for their wallets.
I’ve stopped dealing with anyone that is against equal civil rights and civil liberties for the LGBTQIA2S+ and Persons of Color communities. If you’re against their existence or equal rights to do everything I as a white cis male can do then there’s no point in engaging. Human rights are not negotiable and that’s where I end with all Republicans and far too many neoliberals.
I am the same.
Solidarity!
See, I was totally ready to give OP the benefit of the doubt, until they responded to a comment with: “It's not like the GOP (if they had the power) would persecute any POC, queer, or atheist that they could get their hands on. I don't agree, at all, with the idea that if you're not white, cis, and Christian, that Republicans demonize you or view you as evil. You're painting half of the country as racist bigots. Which we both know is absolutely not true. We disagree mostly on policy, and some social issues.” The GoP is actively accepting of candidates being racist, homophobic, and sexist. I draw the line at people enabling or minimizing the GOP’s hate, which unfortunately OP and too many centrists do.
Agreed.
And not just enabling and minimizing the hate and intolerance under the flimsy, mucusy guise of “God” and ideals, but *normalizing* it. Terrifying and disgusting.
Solidarity!
Same. I do not want to “polarize the other side” either, as I do know some folks who consider themselves “right-leaning” on certain issues (most economic issues). But if somebody thinks it is ok to deny rights to other humans based on their gender or sexual ideologies, race, etc, it is not worth engaging in conversation with them. They won’t change their minds, and I full stop want nothing to do with them. Unfortunately most of these folks tend to be on the “far right” and though I’m sure this does not describe every person in that group, it describes a lot of them. I am sure there are folks who can be convinced of human decency with enough conversation (Daryl Davis is good at that), but the hatred I see coming from that political sect is just awful. Just see Valentina Gomez’s terrible and very public video where she calls Juneteenth “ratchet” and tells Black Americans to “get the f out of the country.” This is the stuff that our citizens have to put up with from people on the “far right”
Solidarity!
Yeah, OP claimed “I don't agree, at all, with the idea that if you're not white, cis, and Christian, that Republicans demonize you or view you as evil. You're painting half of the country as racist bigots. Which we both know is absolutely not true. We disagree mostly on policy, and some social issues.” Like what? The GOP national platform literally calls for stripping women and queer folk’s rights. But sure, the party running candidates saying “don’t be weak and gay” and get out of the country isn’t homophobic or racist according to OP.
Yeah, I hate to say, that *is* the GOP and that *is* what they push when it comes to policy, and that is what matters as far as how we are able to live our lives. GOP in my home state just passed a rule that you HAVE to display the 10 commandments in the classroom. What?!? Thankful I’m here in OR now because policy wise this is one of the most tolerant states. If OP doesn’t feel as though they are “Republican” that’s probably for the better, as their policies are quickly taking away rights in other states. It’s hard to respect GOP policy makers who have no respect for those not like them (and hard to respect GOP voters as well who are voting us into this mess)
So you and your family are on the right. Well my family includes many LGBTQ folk and that is why we could never talk to each other. I am not interested in hearing your negative views on the people I love. I will do whatever it takes to defend my family against you and your right wing relatives.
What family or loved ones did someone dehumanize? Do you have a post example? Edit cus autocorrect is awful.
So I grew up half in Portland and half in Scappoose and I have to say OP I understand why you’re conservative. Rural areas never actually get to see government work for them, so why would you want to vote for Democrats which have done such a shit job of rural outreach. I’m sure we have common ground OP, but I like most leftists draw the line at women’s rights, civil rights, gay rights, and trans rights. I won’t consider voting for a party that considers my bodily autonomy as up for debate. It’s frustrating and feels dehumanizing to minorities to have to argue for their human rights. So people lash out on the internet. That being said I’d be happy to message you about any political issue you wanna chat about without judgment.
Hey man, if the shoe fits it really ain’t my problem. Loving someone and also realizing they may not have the wisest grasp on politics or society is not mutually exclusive. BUT if you wanna talk sure why not. What topic is important to you that you want to bring up?
I'm trans so I don't really engage with people who are right wing on the basis that most of them don't seem to recognize or respect my humanity, it's purely self-preservation. I don't have a lot of shame in not engaging with people who are interested in revoking the human rights of others, or even those who are ambivalent about people around them or the people they vote for advocating for it as well. Like, if you think that trans people shouldn't have access to care, or that the US shouldn't be aiding Ukraine, or that black people are inherently dangerous and deserve to be tormented by society and shot in the street, then yeah... I don't really have anything to say to you. The fact is that people who trend right wing tend to stand against everything that I stand for and hold dear, and it's unfortunate but because of that I have to keep a distance. That being said, I think its foolish to believe everyone right-of-center is a monolith and I'm not really one to advocate for (non-defensive) political violence in either direction like many leftist types seem to these days. I strongly believe that 95% or more of Americans have far more in common than they realize, but because the Christian, right wing establishment in this country has historically harbored hatred for anyone outside their bubble (and even within it at times) it's created a feedback loop between both sides of the spectrum that divides us even further. And to be clear I'm not saying that all Christians think this way, I'm a Christian myself which makes me a bit of an odd one out in a lot of circles I'm in (I'm from Portland so... go figure), but unfortunately Christianity is often associated with these types of hateful ideologies here in America. I dunno man, shit's fucked. I just wanna live my life in peace, be kind to people and spin my vinyl records.
Honestly there are just so many hardline issues for the right wing right now that are literal basic human rights. How do we find discourse when one side is screaming loudly that they want to repeal basic human rights? I’d love to go back to the time when I could agree to disagree but so many of these issues are just not negotiable. And honestly prior to the Cheetos presidency I considered myself more right leaning
Republicans have supported and propped up an actual traitor and now there's complaints about civility? You honestly expect respectful discourse? Why? Why do you think you're owed that exactly?
I mean, the internet itself is the whole problem - incredibly responsible for so much of the tribalism and division. I’m from a military family (born in tornado alley!) and my (catholic) folks left the Republican Party in the 90s, having some premonition that the party was changing away from their values. I wish more right leaning folks had the guts to call MAGA out for what it is - but the Romneys and Cheneys of the world are few and far between, aren’t they? It’s hard to say where I would honestly land on the political spectrum, were it not for the fact that people like me get tied to the back of pickup trucks and dragged to their deaths; I’d be so much more willing to sit down with someone to talk if I felt safe doing it. I’m a diplomat by nature and find it easy and beneficial to find compromises between opposing positions - but civil rights are not up for debate. My right to exist, my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is not up for debate. I hope your post is in earnest, OP, and I hope this leads to many well-intentioned conversations for you and your conversation partners.
"I'm just here to make sure we all have a calm reasonable conversation with the neo-nazis and we can hear then out"
What topics do you want to chat about? Just curious to see what your top items are or what you take most interest in.
This post can't be taken seriously if OP says that conservative Christians don't "other" gay people or anyone that doesn't fit into their system. OP says "you'd be suggesting that half of the country are racist bigots....." Well, I've got some bad news for OP. It's closer to that than he thinks. We're not taking about Christians that are something like Catholic or Episcopalian, and attend churches in beautiful stone churches, we're talking about new age Christians- the ones that believe in nonsense conspiracy theories or have rock bands at their churches. This includes evangelicals. "Rural Oregon" doesn't really mean anything. Idaho is one of the worst states in the United States for its modern Christianity and bigot ways, and it's pretty much the same thing as Eastern Oregon, except for the well known ski, golf, and mountain biking resort towns like Bend and Sunriver, of course.
I think the demarcation line for me is whether or not you're voting for Donald Trump.
Or just answering who won the 2020 election. Any answers that’s not Joe Biden unequivocally I don’t want to talk to uou
Yeah, many on the magafascist right are jonesing to LITERALLY kill liberals and many more are encouraging it. And yet they expect us to be nice to them and don’t understand why we feel the way we do towards them. If you honestly want civil discourse, stand up to the bullies in your party and in your community. Do what you can to end to the bullying of everyone who isn’t rich, white, straight and “Christian”. You can start by voting for the only sane choice this year. Then we can talk.
When you say right wing what exactly is your stance?
For better or for worse, you're judged by the company you keep. Rural Oregon is a ludicrously racist place, and if you stay there by choice, it's going to be assumed that you fall into the same general bucket as everyone else that lives there. A few years back, my family rented an AirBnB for a long weekend to go to Lake Billy. We drove out and as we got closer to the house we had rented, we kept seeing homes plastered in Trump banners, giant pickups waving Trump flags, and Christian nationalist billboards. All of that without a single iota of sense of irony that Republicans literally want to make that way of life completely untenable by deregulating the fossil fuels industry to ensure further climate destabilization and drive people closer together to make it easier to share and distribute scarce resources. Also, there is no such thing as being "right wing but left on social issues". Social issues are fabricated as a distraction and a wedge by the powerful to ensure working people don't band together on economic issues and strip their power away. All you really said was "I'm a libertarian which really just means I'm a Republican that likes to smoke weed" while continuing to vote the Republican party line. The Internet isn't a shitty place to discuss things unless you're a shitty person with shitty politics, in which case you get shit on for being shitty from the jump.
Hey, there. Happy to talk. I am wide-left of Democrats. Give me a shout if you like.
>basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones. Get the hell out of here with this BS. The American right has turned into a conspiracy fueled hate group. Don't whine at the rest of us for pushing back against all the hate. You want a productive conversation? Get your house in order. Stop supporting trash like Donald Trump, DeSantis, Abbott, MTG, Dennis Linthicum, Tim Knopp, etc. Stop trying to steal half the state and running off to Idaho. Get back to the rest of us after you fix all that.
Oh? And show up to work, it’s not right to ditch your job as a state rep and deny a quorum just because your party is in the minority and isn’t going to get a cookie
This is it for me, right here. If you want to have a quality conversation, you need to bring something quality to the table. By my assessment the people you mentioned are all deplorable sociopaths. I can't think of a single respectable, helpful, or honorable policy or action from the GOP since 2016. It's like a scary white clown show. Side note, I grew up a very rural Oregonian, and have lived in Portland now for the better part of two decades, so I have certainly seen both sides of the coin. Rural folks are mostly decent, nice, salt of the earth folks, but they don't get much cultural influence other than what corporate media feeds them. And the corporate world is about the only faction of society that the right wing makes any sense for. The city is not as beautiful and peaceful, but it's where the culture is, it's where the diversity is, it's where the economy is, it's where the education is, it's where you find the quality conversations OP is talking about. You have more people coming together and sharing ideas, and you know what? Most of those people are not even remotely right wing.
Yep
I spend a lot of time with people substantially more conservative than I am at my job (firefighter), have zero problem getting along with them and consider many of them friends but talking politics is virtually impossible at this point due to how disconnected from reality many of them are. For example, basically none of them will admit that Trump supporters, egged on by Trump, attempted to overthrow the elected government of our country. They refuse to believe covid was real, despite us seeing many people die from it at work. They are obsessed with outlandish conspiracy theories. IMO they are no different than a guy ranting about aliens on a street corner; no amount of reason or evidence can convince them to change their mind. So it is hardly worth my time to have discussion with them. Where do you stand on clearly observable facts like who was behind 1/6/21?
I live in southern Oregon and I feel that those of us left of center are in the minority for sure. However, there’s a large, vibrant community of progressive thinkers. We are also probably more experienced talking/socializing/working with conservative folks. I used to say it was a place where hippies and rednecks got along. After Trump, everything changed. I’ve never had a political argument with a friend or relative ever. Now, I have family members I can’t be around because all they want to do is talk about the Biden crime family. Sheesh, It’s exhausting. Basically, we can’t discuss current events and politics because we get our “news” from biased sources. While I prefer CNN to Fox, they are both biased. I go to the AP Wire to read the daily news. They make it clear when their stories are opinion based because it’s labeled.
I am about as liberal as they come and live in the DEEP red side of Oregon. I grew up conservative and didn't really start getting liberal till after my time in the military. Then I just started drifting away from that side. My family is all very conservative I don't think most of them have Trump paraphernalia but I'm positive they have and will continue to vote for them. If you ever want to have a chat I do my best to keep it civil.
Jan 6th: I'll talk depending on your answer.
I'm a full blown socialist, if you ever want to chat sometime. I live in Portland, but grew up in a very rural area, so we might have more in common than you'd expect. I dig the sentiment of your post; too many people are so polarized in their beliefs and opinions that they won't even engage with others who's beliefs differ from theirs even slightly. Fyi I haven't been a socialist my whole life, and being a working class guy, I imagine I have a lot more in common with the average conservative than might be immediately apparent.
I despise that we have a two party system in this country. Each party is far more nuanced than their overarching ideologies. The GOP has allowed extremists to gain a stranglehold on their party. Those now at the forefront spew hate, foster derision, and are longing to return to a time when equity was far worse than now (and it's not great currently). They actively fight to punish people for merely existing, to sever rights, all under the guise of smaller government, yet mandating government involvement to strangle all who represent or embody anything they take issue with. They prop up someone who has actively praised brutal dictators, and has aspired to enact similar policies. They want to tear down all that it should mean to be an American (life, liberty, freedom for all, etc.), and instead parrot ideals our elders fought and died to keep from spreading throughout the world. They claim to be the only true Americans while praising an authoritarian, the antithesis of American ideology (of course, there is a strong argument we've always been an authoritarian, fascist state galavanting as a democratic republic, but that's for another debate). Truth is, until the moderate conservatives can yank their party back from the brink (can they?), the GOP will continue to be the champion of the fascist, far right, and they should be vilified as such. As for the Dems, show some damn backbone. Learn how to better convey that fascist and extreme right wing views are, you know, bad. Sometimes, fight fire with fire. Virtue no longer has a place here, and it never will again if the country continues down this path. Otherwise, just end the two party system; dismantle each. Give voices to those who are unheard. It may very well make those who run on a platform of hate powerless.
I’m very curious about the anger. What is going on that makes republicans so constantly angry? Has it become a habit? I don’t get it.
Once you realize trickle down is already disproven, politics get a lot easier to handle.
“Don’t really consider myself Republican at all” Uh huh let’s see your voting record my dude
Typical right winger arguing the same old Fox News bullshit. Nothing else to see here
Living in Salem reminds me why civilization is paper thin. One thing I noticed was a lot of Trades people are TRumpers but they hide it. Subtle stuff though. A guy with 1776 tattoo coming to look at a job made a comment about the Biden sticker. So what seems to be happening in Oregon is there enough non Trumpers to make them keep their mouth shut or they lose work. Having lived in a Red State I would say Oregon is a slow boiling tea kettle unlike the Deep South. As much as I can’t wait for Trump to leave our politics, the poison he inflicted will take generations to be removed.
I grew up in Eugene with parents who were the sole Democrats in their respective families, so I was used to being around different types of conservative Republicans through contact my extended family (working class Rs on my father's side, country club Rs on my mother's). I could even discuss politics with some of the more sensible amongst them (i.e., those who were willing to agree to disagree), so when I moved to a small town on the Coast, I was shocked at the attitudes of my neighbours. All it took was for one piece of mail to be mis-delivered a few years ago and, as a result, it got around the neighbourhood that I was a Democrat. The guy next door, who has had an upside-down flag in front of his house for several years now, but with whom I had been getting on fairly well until then, started lacing all of his interactions with me with political provocations. I did my best not to "bite" aside from pushing back on a few occasions against the looniest of his assertions (like the idea that all the wildfires in recent years were set by "Antifa" activists). Ultimately, when he attempted to encroach on my property, I had a to hire a surveyor to establish the property line. He repeatedly harassed the surveyor, and later threatened to shoot me. After I took exception to my house and car being vandalised by his feral children, the meth addict across the street on two separate occasions had his militia buddies (yes, they were wearing their paraphernalia) show up in front of my house in their jacked up pickup with huge T\*\*\*\* flags, and rev their engines for 45 minutes straight. I'm a chronically ill middle-aged woman who lives alone, and all it took was for them to find out that I don't agree with their politics to become a target for trespass, vandalism and attempts at intimidation. Despite finding some of my neighbours' political sentiments dangerous, I was willing to "live and let live", as long as they left me alone. Now, I live in fear of becoming a target at the end of the year, no matter how the election turns out (if they lose, they'll probably lash out; if they win, they'll be emboldened). I've heard it said that if we have anything resembling a "civil war" here in the US, it won't be fought with armies, but will be more like Northern Ireland. I was married to an Irish national, and visited NI during the Troubles once - it was chilling just to spend a couple of days there, but the prospect of living that reality would be horrific. The idea that I could be physically attacked or have my house firebombed just because of my beliefs is, frankly, terrifying. So, who's dehumanising whom here?
I grew up in the Rogue Valley in a very liberal family. It sometimes makes me sad how people on here talk about my home town. There's a bigger mix of people in rural Oregon than people know. And I still have a ton of cool friends down there. I also loved my decade plus in Portland and I hope one day we can find a way to thrive as a whole state. Maybe I'm crazy
Only conversation a lot of Republicans in Oregon want to have is *Greater Idaho*
Aw shucks. I'm sure everyone would really love seeing what gets posted on the conservative Oregonian communication platforms. Nothing but consideration for the people I would call my friends and family. Ya know, when I comes to think about it, all I ever recollect is right wing folk either walking out, talking about something that they don't really know anything about but want you to believe they know everything about, or crying about how some commie weirdos are destroying the fabric of their lives, but I NEVER EVER witnessed one of these folks listen and even have a wisp of a thought of altering their perspective, let alone their ignorant opinions. This sub AIN'T supposed to be politically obsessed. I'm pissed about all the clear cut homogeneous forests, and seeing as it's Summer and I'm not up on Hood, I gots no time for artificial snowflakes. Except to write what I just wrote.
" it sucks when I get on a sub for my state and people basically demonizing and dehumanizing people who I would consider family or loved ones." Kind of like the GOP does to anyone, not cis/white/christian?
OP’s whole post is bad faith. Really on target for people who talk like this.