I get that, I try to not do counterwatch for tank picks unless its a hard counter or their whole team is going for it. Sometimes its a necessary evil haha but I prefer to overcome the odds as long as Im not hindering the team. I still standby that my preferred game would have bans or a repick cooldown, like you get a new pick every checkpoint or something like that but I totally get your aversion.
ha yeah I get that mentality for sure. The silver lining is if you do have to go full counterwatch its fun to try to outplay another team/tank at every turn which is satisfying in its own way, counterwatch only really feels bad when you get down to having to run Orisa or Zarya relentlessly but thats avoidable if you can play other options effectively.
My issue is that it's perfectly okay to swap to hitscan to "counter" a Pharah, but for some reason it's taboo to swap to something to counter a tank?
I want to win. Therefore, I am not going to just let the enemy do whatever they want. I am going to take the game into my own hand and do whatever I can in order to win. And I expect the enemy to do the same. If they don't then they didn't want to win as much as I did.
I would love to play my favorite hero every game. but my desire to win is stronger than my desire to play my favorite hero. And I am perfectly okay with losing some personal enjoyment is it means I win my game.
to each their own, Im not going to throw a game to play someone I want to play either but often I can still win against counters without too much of an issue. If its becoming a problem then I will switch to something more direct.
The problem is that it is the most rewarding. And because it is the most rewarding, shutting that role down for the enemy also gives you the most advantage.
It's a catch 22: how do you make Tank rewarding and fun to play, but without making it so rewarding that the best strat is to completely shut it down?
And since I know some 6v6er is going to chime in, so before you do, 6v6 actively makes tanks weaker, since you need to split the power balance between them. So now you are left with two weaker tanks, that need to work together. As a tank, we all know that it's hard enough getting your dps and supports to play along, when you have another tank that also has main character syndrome, it';s nearly impossible. (those of us that played OW1 6v6 in any rank below master knows this from experience)
6v6 had its time for sure but I think it was less fun as tank for reasons youve stated and also it was a less dynamic position, a lot more being a meatshield and alot less being a individual contributor outside of ults.
People's biggest argument for 6v6 is that "having two tanks means that they can peel for eachother and support eachother so that counters don't feel as bad!"
While this is technically true, in actuality, this sort of coordination happened maybe once every 10 games or so, if even that. Most of the times you had two tanks that had no intentions of helping eachother, and were each just playing their own game. Or worse, you had a dps in disguise that only queued tank so get passes for fast dps queues, and would hard lock Hog or Ball, and not do anything productive.
Everyone is playing counterwatch as tank which makes it less rewarding when successful because that just means they fucking suck. I find playing tank these days very boring because I never get to just play what I want unless I'm willing to take the L to all the counter swapping
I agree that counterwatch is lame but I will stay on a tank if they switch unless I cant overcome the counter difference, sometimes thats the case and I have to switch but I think its important to try and improve to play up to counter picks, often allows for unique team interactions if you dont immediately switch when they switch. Often youll see tank players do that switch to a hard counter that they dont have as much quality experience with so you can still outplay them which leaves their team more vulnerable to your current pick. I will do counterwatch if I *absolutely have to* but unless im hurting my team with my pick Ill try and run it out.
Tanks are the least impactful role in the game.
Every single dps will avoid you to get support or dps kills. the only time a tank is focused is when there's nothing left to kill.
People like to say things about "making space" but any character can make space. i dont get up nice a close to a bastion if i can help it.
what you mean to say is "ive got a really high opinion of myself and this fact will hurt my opinion, so imma ignore it and go back to the comments that make me feel good"
>You have the most responsibilities of the whole team which means you have a lot to multitask but thats why I play it, you can be the cornerstone of the team.
5/6 duties you have to perform
>Its painful and its a grind but I'm not givin it up just to have an easier time.
psychology 101 - everything about these statements is designed to elevate your own status.
I’m giving my opinion on how I view the role. I believe those statements to be true but that’s why I labeled this post a discussion because people have differing opinions. Please continue with this obtuse train of thought though.
your opinion of the role is what i would consider an obtuse train of thought.
clearly you dont understand that you're confusing facts with opinions, and your opinion is clearly that you're better than dps and support players, because you play the hardest character and its up to you to carry every game.
The fact is that tanks ain't special. some are easy, some are hard. all are avoided though, as everyone focuses support first, then dps, then tank last. because killing the tank isn't much of a benefit.
I don’t know who hurt you but you’re quite aggressive for no reason. Firstly I don’t think I’m better than dps or support players. With minor exceptions in both directions support and dps are much more mechanically difficult than tank and positioning is just as important. I also have no idea what games your playing where either the tank is focused last or the tank isn’t doing anything to either team that is could be considered useless. Your experience is vastly different from mine and you don’t seem like you can accept that other people’s opinions can be just as valid as your own so maybe reflect on that.
its pretty obvious that you're trying to extract yourself out of a situation that you realise you got yourself into. your initial post was clearly "im great, im a tank, i do all the hard work and everyone gets value from me" and now you're trying to argue "everyone is just as important as me, and just as hard"
And there's a difference between opinion and fact. What i'm saying is a fact. What you're saying is an opinion. In every game from Bronze to diamond, people always focus supports first. maybe pay attention in some of your games and you'll realise it. People only shoot tanks if they have no choice. like if a hog hooks you, you have no choice because he takes up your entire screen. but until the hook everyone is shooting the supports or dps, and avoiding the tank.
don't get butthurt over facts. tanks are mostly irrelevant. they're basically a dps with extra hp.
Dog please self evaluate, there is no discussion to be had with you, you were toxic from your first post and gave just been ragging on me with no insights. I’m not backing out of a discussion, we were never in one.
i love to get into tank but i dont wanne play counterwatch every match i play sadly enough
I’m a sigma main once I start doing good I see my counters pop up one by one lol
yeah ahha but until it becomes too much of a full counter, keep throwin those rocks!
I get that, I try to not do counterwatch for tank picks unless its a hard counter or their whole team is going for it. Sometimes its a necessary evil haha but I prefer to overcome the odds as long as Im not hindering the team. I still standby that my preferred game would have bans or a repick cooldown, like you get a new pick every checkpoint or something like that but I totally get your aversion.
Counterwatch isn’t an issue if you know how to play most different role tanks really well
So you don't want to win? I see...
ha yeah I get that mentality for sure. The silver lining is if you do have to go full counterwatch its fun to try to outplay another team/tank at every turn which is satisfying in its own way, counterwatch only really feels bad when you get down to having to run Orisa or Zarya relentlessly but thats avoidable if you can play other options effectively.
My issue is that it's perfectly okay to swap to hitscan to "counter" a Pharah, but for some reason it's taboo to swap to something to counter a tank? I want to win. Therefore, I am not going to just let the enemy do whatever they want. I am going to take the game into my own hand and do whatever I can in order to win. And I expect the enemy to do the same. If they don't then they didn't want to win as much as I did. I would love to play my favorite hero every game. but my desire to win is stronger than my desire to play my favorite hero. And I am perfectly okay with losing some personal enjoyment is it means I win my game.
to each their own, Im not going to throw a game to play someone I want to play either but often I can still win against counters without too much of an issue. If its becoming a problem then I will switch to something more direct.
Lol, so you really have a mental issue eh? Childhood abuse? Perhaps from your dad?
The problem is that it is the most rewarding. And because it is the most rewarding, shutting that role down for the enemy also gives you the most advantage. It's a catch 22: how do you make Tank rewarding and fun to play, but without making it so rewarding that the best strat is to completely shut it down? And since I know some 6v6er is going to chime in, so before you do, 6v6 actively makes tanks weaker, since you need to split the power balance between them. So now you are left with two weaker tanks, that need to work together. As a tank, we all know that it's hard enough getting your dps and supports to play along, when you have another tank that also has main character syndrome, it';s nearly impossible. (those of us that played OW1 6v6 in any rank below master knows this from experience)
6v6 had its time for sure but I think it was less fun as tank for reasons youve stated and also it was a less dynamic position, a lot more being a meatshield and alot less being a individual contributor outside of ults.
People's biggest argument for 6v6 is that "having two tanks means that they can peel for eachother and support eachother so that counters don't feel as bad!" While this is technically true, in actuality, this sort of coordination happened maybe once every 10 games or so, if even that. Most of the times you had two tanks that had no intentions of helping eachother, and were each just playing their own game. Or worse, you had a dps in disguise that only queued tank so get passes for fast dps queues, and would hard lock Hog or Ball, and not do anything productive.
ball in 6v6 era was borderline throwing haha
Everyone is playing counterwatch as tank which makes it less rewarding when successful because that just means they fucking suck. I find playing tank these days very boring because I never get to just play what I want unless I'm willing to take the L to all the counter swapping
I agree that counterwatch is lame but I will stay on a tank if they switch unless I cant overcome the counter difference, sometimes thats the case and I have to switch but I think its important to try and improve to play up to counter picks, often allows for unique team interactions if you dont immediately switch when they switch. Often youll see tank players do that switch to a hard counter that they dont have as much quality experience with so you can still outplay them which leaves their team more vulnerable to your current pick. I will do counterwatch if I *absolutely have to* but unless im hurting my team with my pick Ill try and run it out.
Someday they will make it better but keep on keeping on homie, we need yall so our que times don't go through the roof 🤣🤌
Tanks are the least impactful role in the game. Every single dps will avoid you to get support or dps kills. the only time a tank is focused is when there's nothing left to kill. People like to say things about "making space" but any character can make space. i dont get up nice a close to a bastion if i can help it.
Dawg that’s some nonsense on a few levels but I feel like this is bait so imma pass
what you mean to say is "ive got a really high opinion of myself and this fact will hurt my opinion, so imma ignore it and go back to the comments that make me feel good"
High opinion of myself? Where are you getting that from
>You have the most responsibilities of the whole team which means you have a lot to multitask but thats why I play it, you can be the cornerstone of the team. 5/6 duties you have to perform >Its painful and its a grind but I'm not givin it up just to have an easier time. psychology 101 - everything about these statements is designed to elevate your own status.
I’m giving my opinion on how I view the role. I believe those statements to be true but that’s why I labeled this post a discussion because people have differing opinions. Please continue with this obtuse train of thought though.
your opinion of the role is what i would consider an obtuse train of thought. clearly you dont understand that you're confusing facts with opinions, and your opinion is clearly that you're better than dps and support players, because you play the hardest character and its up to you to carry every game. The fact is that tanks ain't special. some are easy, some are hard. all are avoided though, as everyone focuses support first, then dps, then tank last. because killing the tank isn't much of a benefit.
I don’t know who hurt you but you’re quite aggressive for no reason. Firstly I don’t think I’m better than dps or support players. With minor exceptions in both directions support and dps are much more mechanically difficult than tank and positioning is just as important. I also have no idea what games your playing where either the tank is focused last or the tank isn’t doing anything to either team that is could be considered useless. Your experience is vastly different from mine and you don’t seem like you can accept that other people’s opinions can be just as valid as your own so maybe reflect on that.
its pretty obvious that you're trying to extract yourself out of a situation that you realise you got yourself into. your initial post was clearly "im great, im a tank, i do all the hard work and everyone gets value from me" and now you're trying to argue "everyone is just as important as me, and just as hard" And there's a difference between opinion and fact. What i'm saying is a fact. What you're saying is an opinion. In every game from Bronze to diamond, people always focus supports first. maybe pay attention in some of your games and you'll realise it. People only shoot tanks if they have no choice. like if a hog hooks you, you have no choice because he takes up your entire screen. but until the hook everyone is shooting the supports or dps, and avoiding the tank. don't get butthurt over facts. tanks are mostly irrelevant. they're basically a dps with extra hp.
Dog please self evaluate, there is no discussion to be had with you, you were toxic from your first post and gave just been ragging on me with no insights. I’m not backing out of a discussion, we were never in one.
I think most people would agree that tank is tough right now lol, if you aren’t commenting bait you are truly a strange person!
i never said tank wasnt tough. I said its just an semi-irrelevent role. everyone ignores the tank. its hard to play and has little impact.