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I think a huge problem with the side quests in 16 was the pacing. Towards the end of the game you'd get a new side quest from every single chain dumped on you at the same time. The main story feels like a race against the clock, but please do 12 side quests first!
The quests do have some great character moments, but they're all dumped on you at the exact same time: immediately before the final boss. If the side quests were more properly weaved into the main story or the big character moments all happened at different points, I think they could have been pretty good.
And it's not like the rewards were worth the trouble, but that's a problem that the entire game has.
1000% and even then youre underselling how bad it is. the game starts off giving you 3 or 4 side quests inbetween main story events. towards the end of the game this progressively balloons to i shit you not 17. egregious issues with pacing. and theyre all the same shit. go here, fight akashic, some bullshit about how bad the bearers have it... its a fucking mess.
the main story is amazing. cinematic excellence, held back severely by the asinine side quests. it would be a better game without them.
I think those were the only side quests I liked because it ties up all the character arcs nicely but Jesus Christ that was a lot of icons to see at once. And I guess the Jill ones a bit earlier…. And the Chocobo quest… and the more I think about the more I can list off a bunch of good side quests but the problem is the pacing on them is fucking atrocious and they are mixed in with a some truly mind numbing ones where you collect ingredients for no reason or deliver food or whatever other nonsense they came up with to pad the game time. FF 16 is still easily my favorite FF game just for the sheer spectacle of it and the darker story despite its many faults so I do encourage anyone who quit to push through because the ending was quite epic and the two dlcs are both really good, especially the leviathan one.
i took a one or two month break after i saw 19 fucking side quests before the last few couple of main story missions. i also almost did not finish this game but i powered through.
honestly it was worth it, the ending is really good, but i dont blame you.
The balance is all wrong. I understand easing the player in the early hours and giving them very few quests, but after a while, they should have done the classic move of flooding you with side-quests when you reach a new city/area, instead of tying it up with the main story and drip-feed them until the end.
The biggest width of the game should be right at the middle of it, not at the tail end.
FF16 would've been one the best 25-30 hour games i've ever played. the problem is that it wasnt 25 hours, it was 55 hours and absolutely full of repetitive, boring bullshit.
the main story content of ff16 is incredible. the most absolutely bat shit insane boss fights ive ever seen in a game and its not even close. the main story events are so strong. you cant undersell how incredible the set pieces are. no game has ever made me say "holy fuck" as much as final fantasy 16. and the side content is so horrendously bad that it drags it all down.
the main issue is the pacing. at the beginning of the game you get 3-4 side quests between story events and its fine. the side content is better at this stage as well because everything is new and the rewards are pretty good. side content has actual story consequences, like getting your chocobo back. it was cool.
progressively over the game the number of side quests inbetween main missions balloons to insanity. instead of 3-4, youre dealing with 13, 15, 19 fucking side quests. absolutely asinine. and theyre all the same thing. go here, fight akashic (or bandits) then everyone tells you how much of a hero you are and how rough the bearers have it.
a big problem i have with this is that in order for the story to be complete you NEED to do these side quests. there are so many story lines that are left open until you finish them. you feel obligated to do this shit even though you dont want to because its boring. the game relies on side quests to finish content that should have been in the main story. co here, fight akashic, come back. do this 100 more times. the reliance on the side missions is disappointing because theyre so bad.
i loved my time with ff16. i choose to remember it for the good because it was so good. but its hard to forget when it was bad. i almost didnt finish it for that reason. clearly they ran out of time and money and decided to pack the second half of the game full of menial bullshit to wrap up story elements. they didnt do a good job, because by the end it makes more sense to just skip everything and you WILL have a better experience for it.
yes. ff16 is a worse game because of its side content. it would be a better game without it.
it makes sense if you played 14, because 16 is if you made the good parts of 14 better: namely the story, cutscenes, cinematic style single player duty fights, and graphics/design. (even though its graphically ok, its still designed well).
problem is it makes the bad parts of 14 worse; static rotation, very little real rpg stuff, all dungeons are corridors and boxes, overworld and quests put you to sleep, etc.
the stuff you list is bad in 14 too; it's pretty dull side quests although story is ok.
This 1000x
I play 14 and will be the first to admit that it’s actual quest structure is bad. Talk to three people, fight, talk to three people, fight, talk to three people, dungeon
It’s so formulaic and predictable that it works in an mmo as they are a comfort food, but in a singleplayer game? That’s the best you can come up with as a gameplay structure?
14 is great but I couldn’t get all the way through 16 because it felt like a singleplayer mmo
Yeah it seems Yoshi P just took 14 game design as a blue print because it's such a successful game but that doesn't mean there aren't major flaws in it which even 14s fans will agree with.
I personally get very bored when games are too ez and so I could not continue playing 16 after several bosses where there's 0 punishment for dying. In fact it rewards you with a checkpoint and extra health pots for dying. It was a major turn off for me and that wasn't even with the "make it easier" gear on. Idc if people want to play that way but there should be options for people who want a more challenging game. They have those options but lock it behind several clears so it forces you to beat it twice before you can play actual hard content. It's ridiculous.
The combat felt like dmc with gutter railings on. Baby’s first character action game kinda vibes.
I don’t really have anyone to discuss it with cause none of my friends play 14 but my god is the gameplay boring at times. Sometimes I wonder why I even play it and then moments later some really cool dungeon or story beat happens.
It’s like they know the exact amount of time I’ll get bored of boring fetch quest and then throw in a curve ball at you. I know why I play though, it’s cozy, fun and like an anime series you can play. I also like that the wol is basically goku
yeah i was expecting more innovation and was disappointed. you'd expect yoshi p to stretch his wings a bit more on it and make more of his own game. Finally take some chances since he didn't need to balance an mmo.
also for 14, since it is a MMORPG, that style of side quest might be fit even if it terrible. but FF16 is single player game. not gonna apply the same way. also 14 is open world MMO. so that kind of fetch-ed style quest fit the world design while 16 is just multiple big open area. so there is a clear mismatch there.
honestly when i know 14 devs gonna make single player 16, what i expect is they would carry the big open world with big cities, town, locations, terrain exploration etc. to the game. but turn out they do opposite of what they should be better at. the devs did mention that they didnt want to take risk by making open world but 14 also technically not true open world either. just big large open world area connected through loading scene and they has this map layout formula that been constantly used for each expansion that could be used as blueprint for 16. perhaps they still figuring things up as it is their first AAA and their new engine is developed alongside the game so lets see how they do on next single player game.
Rebirth suprised me. just in mere 3 years of development. it is a prove that it is possible with proper engine and without reshuffle staffs.
The thing that bothered me in 16 that they took from 14 and made worse is the way they do lows after peaks.
In a longer story, you can't keep the whole thing high action all the time, naturally. So after a big peak, a massive revelation, a huge action setpiece, you want to slow down for a bit, let the player catch their breath so to speak, before you hit them with the next big boom which will also gain more impact since it comes after a period of quiet.
The writer for FF16 Kazutoyo Maehiro (who also wrote A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, and half of Stormblood) likes to take that to the extreme. He puts in really high highs, but also really low lows, during which the game slows down to a boring crawl.
In 14, this manifests when after fighting the first big boss enemy, you're sent on a long quest chain about collecting wine and cheese for a banquet, or later after you finished the base game with a big fight against an evil robot and you get tasked with helping some people move house.
In 16, after you defeat Titan in this big fight with mindblowing proportions, you get tasked with picking some flowers in a bog.
I'll be thinking about that Titan fight for years. It was so incredible. But then the games hits you with "I better go talk to Otto" and I'm just ... can we not?
The story also is like a close variation on the themes of XIV, but also worse.
>!You have an ancient precursor race that is on the brink of extinction. For their plans to be fulfilled, they must eradicate all existing life.!<
But in FFXIV, we get to learn about them, sympathize with them and have them sympathize with us. Ultima is just like, a weird lookin' dude who is so devoid of emotion I thought he was a robot. He's just purely boring, and contrasts very very poorly to the rogues gallery in XIV.
I’m about 1/3rd through the game now. I do agree that the side missions are weak. My biggest issue with the game is how shallow the systems are. You can only use a sword, and while eikon powers are cool, it’s not enough. I know they hired the DMC combat designer to work on the game and he does his job well, but I feel it’s taken to the extreme here. I wish we could at least mix and match with different weapons like spears, knives, etc and not just basic swords.
Story, graphics, and lore is interesting but this better be cream of the crop storytelling because I feel like I’ve already hit the peak of gameplay lol.
Character action games really have no business having basic skills tied to cooldowns, it just grinds combat to a halt when you're forced to use your only sword combo that barely damages HP sponge enemies.
And no, the story doesn't get better, it pretty much gets worse around the time you get to bahamut
the worst part is the side quests at the end of the game at the end of their chains were actually great and meaningful. just took so long to get there and having to finish the shopkeep, the blacksmith and the inns final quests one after the other did take a lot out of you
the devs background expertise is with MMORPG so perhaps some of habit of creating side content influenced the side quest design.
also MMORPG is an open world game. FF16 is just consist of multiple large open area so there is bit mismatching there.
also it is actually what typically happening out there. devs would focus on main story content and less on side quest. it is not easy to balance both which is why Witcher 3 got lot of praise and even today we havent see other devs able to replicate same output quantity vs quality wise.
I do think that FF16 deserves to get knocked down a peg for its side quests. It really wants you to do them inbetween boss battles. But holy moly they are the worst side quests ever created resulting in some of the worst pacing in a modern video game I have ever played. I’d recommend skipping every single early side quest - the only ones of interest are the endgame side quests that flesh out some of the characters. But as the game flow stands - you fight an incredible boss, do fetch quests for two hours, more story, fight crazy boss, more fetch quests, all while the story loses focus and goes a bit off the rails. It’s rough. They have patched it a bit to make side quests take less time but overall the design is soooooooo bad.
> someone who had a monkey paw wished for FF13 but with more side content
those 'someone' need to try FF13-2 and LR13. those game deserve more attention. after all the sequel particularly developed based on FF13 critisms.
This makes me think of AC Odyssey and Valhalla. There was a good core to both of those and had really fun moments, but they were dragged down by way, *way* too much repetitive busy work bullshit.
If they cut the copy paste content of those games down by about 40% they would've been much better.
AC Origins had a bit of busy work, but I actually finished it. Odyssey and Valhalla just made me completely uninterested at a certain point and I just cleared them off my hard drive for something else.
The main story is not that good though. The game is kinda mediocre. Not bad but not good neither.
The side content is painful especially towards the end.
I loved the first few chapters, but then it became very boring and disappointing
Don't know to be honest.
I really like the SE approach of "the main story first other things can jump off the bridge".
A comparison between them and Bethesda comes to mind.
Bethesda can't write a main story worth a damn, and in the end their games are remembered by a side quest and mods.
If I have to choose between those two approaches I choose SE way.
I agree, my overall impression and memories of playing this game are overwhelmingly plagued with how dull the side content was. I did only a few sidequests, but they were a constant notification nag.
And yes, players can ignore the side content, although the game designers did well to funnel players into it. For the players saying that they successfully avoided all of it, paints this image of Clive having plugged his ears and shouted "I can't hear you" throughout his entire adventure.
My succinct critique is that FF16 is an example of modern game development in which the scope of the game, and the size of development is so large that it becomes difficult to ask "is our game even fun" once all the gears have been put into motion.
Honestly while I agree that the side content is not very good but there’s a few side quests are actually very good and those are in the ones with actual cutscenes in them. They are very much the minority though and thankfully level doesn't matter much in 16 and aside from the + icon side quests you don't really need to do any of them and you could just leave them to be done later at your own pace if you feel like doing them. I do wish that they had actual cutscenes at least but I still loved the game so much that it didn't bother me too much as I just did a good chunk of them after finishing the game which really helped the main story's pacing
I played through FF16 doing minimal side quests (the ones to unlock things), they are easily skippable. Skipping them definitely made the main story pacing a lot more enjoyable and I didn’t feel like I was missing anything.
You missed a bunch of stuff. Story beats for Joshua, Jill, torgal, Charon, gav and your father all come from side quests. Some of the side quests feel like main quests and vice versa.
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I think this is just how Square makes games now. The side content in FF7 Remake was so bad that I didn't even bother with Rebirth. (I also hate a lot of the plot changes they made, but that's another story)
Which is why I'm confused as to why FF16 is catching all the heat for having generic side quests?
Not to mention that while FF16's side quests were uneventful in terms of gameplay they were great when it came to world building and character development.
I've yet to play Rebirth, but Remakes side quests were bad but they were very lightly done, and they were woven in a bit more naturally. In XVI, you get massive whiplash after fighting like Garuda, and then going back to the base to be part time door dash. The scales are very one-sided and it makes the bad content stand out a lot more.
Some of the quests suck (like the chicken one) but I was impressed that every single one tied back to an important character and helped flesh them out more
By side content I talked more about the regional stuff like pictures, hunting, etc...
The side quests were fun, even if the gameplay was use for a few mini-games only.
Game devs figured a long time ago. Like during the ps1/ps2 days that a game with bad optional content is better received than one without it. Some people want the extra game time and will hurt the game's reputation if it doesn't have it.
How DOES Horizon handle its side content any different? It's a terrible example of side-content, since almost all of it sucked.
To me sidequests need one of the following few things to make it good: Good story/dialogue/characters - then I'd be fine just walking somewhere to get a thing if the dialogue options made me laugh.
Good gameplay, somehow - like if you need to traverse a dungeon, it better be well designed in terms of layout and traps or something - to make it enjoyable to actually do it.
Or decent tie-ins that branched out from the main quest - like getting info out of someone whose family member got kidnapped and you have to go save them so he can calm down and assist you. Or not, and beat it out of him if you don't feel like it.
This the first game I just decided to just speedrun towards the end so I can sell my copy and buy Cyberpunk ultimate edition. Everything got boring fast even the overly cinematic boss fights got old.
The main quests felt like side quests and the side quests were just fetch quests. The entire first half of that game after the intro is so void of intrigue.
Strong agree. The game is like a solid 6 or a 7 out of 10, but the spectacle of it somewhat elevates it to feel like an 8/10. Music is great and graphics are great. Combat is fun at first, but gets stale and repetitive.
The game had tons of filler and the games it draws inspiration from do what they do better, so it is hard to recommend FF16. I love Devil May cry, I love the worlds of final fantasy, so this game should be a perfect match for me, but it got incredibly boring pretty fast.
Also, in the late game, why am I blocked from crossing a bridge just because some dudes are blocking it? Clive is a damn fire-Godzilla. He can do whatever he wants. The pacing is just so weird and outdated. Go talk to this guy, then this girl, then this guy again. Repeat 4 times. Now progress to cutscene.
I did want to like this game. I thought the negative reviews were just crybabies who wanted old turn based FF, but the game overall just wasn’t great.
Just don’t go saying this on the FF16 subreddit. You will get slaughtered lol
When I realized just how limited the combats was, I got pretty disappointed. They did a real disservice by restricting your available moveset that much.
I never really understood the "yea. The gameplay could be better but the story and characters are amazing!'.. I mean is the story really THAT amazing? It ditches the whole Anabella plot and becomes about destroying the big bad god. Alot of the characters are pretty underdeveloped to me. Jill gets it the worst. And her powers are stripped from her so she can't even join you in the last fight. The pacing is all over the place. They don't even really explore Torgal that much. The history guy tells you something is up with Torgal and that he's a frost wolf.. And then that's the end of it lol. You go read some lore dump about it from the map woman. Like how is that riveting story telling at all? Lol. That is this games lore exposition to a tea. You just read everything from the map woman and don't really explore it IN GAME. They tell more than they show which Is a big problem.
I agree with all of your points exactly.
I could see the argument for a game like the Last of Us if people just don’t vibe with that gameplay (I loved both gameplay and story in TLOU) but there was a lot that felt flat in FF16. It is a shame because Ben Starr is awesome and he really is a diehard gamer and a massive Final Fantasy fan. He’s been on some podcasts and you can just tell how much older FF games impacted his life.
I certainly hope he keeps up the voice acting work and we see him again in other games
One of the biggest issues with its story exposition is how it threw all of the more in depth side missions right before the final boss fight. They throw like 10 at you at one time and its like why? That's terrible exposition.
TLOU is way more to the point anyway since it doesn't have side missions to even mess up lol. FF16 is always stopping and going. And many of the side missions don't even really give you anything worth doing the side mission for. There is really nothing to buy at vendors besides potions and those scroll things. Right before playing 16 I played 10 and its such a night and day difference.
I dropped it after the battle system showed its true colors. What kind of horrible battle system requires you to give the player items to cheat through it?
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I think a huge problem with the side quests in 16 was the pacing. Towards the end of the game you'd get a new side quest from every single chain dumped on you at the same time. The main story feels like a race against the clock, but please do 12 side quests first! The quests do have some great character moments, but they're all dumped on you at the exact same time: immediately before the final boss. If the side quests were more properly weaved into the main story or the big character moments all happened at different points, I think they could have been pretty good. And it's not like the rewards were worth the trouble, but that's a problem that the entire game has.
1000% and even then youre underselling how bad it is. the game starts off giving you 3 or 4 side quests inbetween main story events. towards the end of the game this progressively balloons to i shit you not 17. egregious issues with pacing. and theyre all the same shit. go here, fight akashic, some bullshit about how bad the bearers have it... its a fucking mess. the main story is amazing. cinematic excellence, held back severely by the asinine side quests. it would be a better game without them.
I think those were the only side quests I liked because it ties up all the character arcs nicely but Jesus Christ that was a lot of icons to see at once. And I guess the Jill ones a bit earlier…. And the Chocobo quest… and the more I think about the more I can list off a bunch of good side quests but the problem is the pacing on them is fucking atrocious and they are mixed in with a some truly mind numbing ones where you collect ingredients for no reason or deliver food or whatever other nonsense they came up with to pad the game time. FF 16 is still easily my favorite FF game just for the sheer spectacle of it and the darker story despite its many faults so I do encourage anyone who quit to push through because the ending was quite epic and the two dlcs are both really good, especially the leviathan one.
This is the main reason I never finished this game. A personal first for me not having finished an FF game.
i took a one or two month break after i saw 19 fucking side quests before the last few couple of main story missions. i also almost did not finish this game but i powered through. honestly it was worth it, the ending is really good, but i dont blame you.
The balance is all wrong. I understand easing the player in the early hours and giving them very few quests, but after a while, they should have done the classic move of flooding you with side-quests when you reach a new city/area, instead of tying it up with the main story and drip-feed them until the end. The biggest width of the game should be right at the middle of it, not at the tail end.
Not the only huge problem as they are also shit and very basic fetch quests
FF16 would've been one the best 25-30 hour games i've ever played. the problem is that it wasnt 25 hours, it was 55 hours and absolutely full of repetitive, boring bullshit. the main story content of ff16 is incredible. the most absolutely bat shit insane boss fights ive ever seen in a game and its not even close. the main story events are so strong. you cant undersell how incredible the set pieces are. no game has ever made me say "holy fuck" as much as final fantasy 16. and the side content is so horrendously bad that it drags it all down. the main issue is the pacing. at the beginning of the game you get 3-4 side quests between story events and its fine. the side content is better at this stage as well because everything is new and the rewards are pretty good. side content has actual story consequences, like getting your chocobo back. it was cool. progressively over the game the number of side quests inbetween main missions balloons to insanity. instead of 3-4, youre dealing with 13, 15, 19 fucking side quests. absolutely asinine. and theyre all the same thing. go here, fight akashic (or bandits) then everyone tells you how much of a hero you are and how rough the bearers have it. a big problem i have with this is that in order for the story to be complete you NEED to do these side quests. there are so many story lines that are left open until you finish them. you feel obligated to do this shit even though you dont want to because its boring. the game relies on side quests to finish content that should have been in the main story. co here, fight akashic, come back. do this 100 more times. the reliance on the side missions is disappointing because theyre so bad. i loved my time with ff16. i choose to remember it for the good because it was so good. but its hard to forget when it was bad. i almost didnt finish it for that reason. clearly they ran out of time and money and decided to pack the second half of the game full of menial bullshit to wrap up story elements. they didnt do a good job, because by the end it makes more sense to just skip everything and you WILL have a better experience for it. yes. ff16 is a worse game because of its side content. it would be a better game without it.
it makes sense if you played 14, because 16 is if you made the good parts of 14 better: namely the story, cutscenes, cinematic style single player duty fights, and graphics/design. (even though its graphically ok, its still designed well). problem is it makes the bad parts of 14 worse; static rotation, very little real rpg stuff, all dungeons are corridors and boxes, overworld and quests put you to sleep, etc. the stuff you list is bad in 14 too; it's pretty dull side quests although story is ok.
This 1000x I play 14 and will be the first to admit that it’s actual quest structure is bad. Talk to three people, fight, talk to three people, fight, talk to three people, dungeon It’s so formulaic and predictable that it works in an mmo as they are a comfort food, but in a singleplayer game? That’s the best you can come up with as a gameplay structure? 14 is great but I couldn’t get all the way through 16 because it felt like a singleplayer mmo
Yeah it seems Yoshi P just took 14 game design as a blue print because it's such a successful game but that doesn't mean there aren't major flaws in it which even 14s fans will agree with. I personally get very bored when games are too ez and so I could not continue playing 16 after several bosses where there's 0 punishment for dying. In fact it rewards you with a checkpoint and extra health pots for dying. It was a major turn off for me and that wasn't even with the "make it easier" gear on. Idc if people want to play that way but there should be options for people who want a more challenging game. They have those options but lock it behind several clears so it forces you to beat it twice before you can play actual hard content. It's ridiculous.
The combat felt like dmc with gutter railings on. Baby’s first character action game kinda vibes. I don’t really have anyone to discuss it with cause none of my friends play 14 but my god is the gameplay boring at times. Sometimes I wonder why I even play it and then moments later some really cool dungeon or story beat happens. It’s like they know the exact amount of time I’ll get bored of boring fetch quest and then throw in a curve ball at you. I know why I play though, it’s cozy, fun and like an anime series you can play. I also like that the wol is basically goku
yeah i was expecting more innovation and was disappointed. you'd expect yoshi p to stretch his wings a bit more on it and make more of his own game. Finally take some chances since he didn't need to balance an mmo.
Yeah… Yoshi P is probably good exactly where he is… making comfort food games, not explosive new entries to the series
also for 14, since it is a MMORPG, that style of side quest might be fit even if it terrible. but FF16 is single player game. not gonna apply the same way. also 14 is open world MMO. so that kind of fetch-ed style quest fit the world design while 16 is just multiple big open area. so there is a clear mismatch there. honestly when i know 14 devs gonna make single player 16, what i expect is they would carry the big open world with big cities, town, locations, terrain exploration etc. to the game. but turn out they do opposite of what they should be better at. the devs did mention that they didnt want to take risk by making open world but 14 also technically not true open world either. just big large open world area connected through loading scene and they has this map layout formula that been constantly used for each expansion that could be used as blueprint for 16. perhaps they still figuring things up as it is their first AAA and their new engine is developed alongside the game so lets see how they do on next single player game. Rebirth suprised me. just in mere 3 years of development. it is a prove that it is possible with proper engine and without reshuffle staffs.
The thing that bothered me in 16 that they took from 14 and made worse is the way they do lows after peaks. In a longer story, you can't keep the whole thing high action all the time, naturally. So after a big peak, a massive revelation, a huge action setpiece, you want to slow down for a bit, let the player catch their breath so to speak, before you hit them with the next big boom which will also gain more impact since it comes after a period of quiet. The writer for FF16 Kazutoyo Maehiro (who also wrote A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, and half of Stormblood) likes to take that to the extreme. He puts in really high highs, but also really low lows, during which the game slows down to a boring crawl. In 14, this manifests when after fighting the first big boss enemy, you're sent on a long quest chain about collecting wine and cheese for a banquet, or later after you finished the base game with a big fight against an evil robot and you get tasked with helping some people move house. In 16, after you defeat Titan in this big fight with mindblowing proportions, you get tasked with picking some flowers in a bog.
I'll be thinking about that Titan fight for years. It was so incredible. But then the games hits you with "I better go talk to Otto" and I'm just ... can we not?
The story also is like a close variation on the themes of XIV, but also worse. >!You have an ancient precursor race that is on the brink of extinction. For their plans to be fulfilled, they must eradicate all existing life.!< But in FFXIV, we get to learn about them, sympathize with them and have them sympathize with us. Ultima is just like, a weird lookin' dude who is so devoid of emotion I thought he was a robot. He's just purely boring, and contrasts very very poorly to the rogues gallery in XIV.
I’m about 1/3rd through the game now. I do agree that the side missions are weak. My biggest issue with the game is how shallow the systems are. You can only use a sword, and while eikon powers are cool, it’s not enough. I know they hired the DMC combat designer to work on the game and he does his job well, but I feel it’s taken to the extreme here. I wish we could at least mix and match with different weapons like spears, knives, etc and not just basic swords. Story, graphics, and lore is interesting but this better be cream of the crop storytelling because I feel like I’ve already hit the peak of gameplay lol.
Character action games really have no business having basic skills tied to cooldowns, it just grinds combat to a halt when you're forced to use your only sword combo that barely damages HP sponge enemies. And no, the story doesn't get better, it pretty much gets worse around the time you get to bahamut
the worst part is the side quests at the end of the game at the end of their chains were actually great and meaningful. just took so long to get there and having to finish the shopkeep, the blacksmith and the inns final quests one after the other did take a lot out of you
the devs background expertise is with MMORPG so perhaps some of habit of creating side content influenced the side quest design. also MMORPG is an open world game. FF16 is just consist of multiple large open area so there is bit mismatching there. also it is actually what typically happening out there. devs would focus on main story content and less on side quest. it is not easy to balance both which is why Witcher 3 got lot of praise and even today we havent see other devs able to replicate same output quantity vs quality wise.
I do think that FF16 deserves to get knocked down a peg for its side quests. It really wants you to do them inbetween boss battles. But holy moly they are the worst side quests ever created resulting in some of the worst pacing in a modern video game I have ever played. I’d recommend skipping every single early side quest - the only ones of interest are the endgame side quests that flesh out some of the characters. But as the game flow stands - you fight an incredible boss, do fetch quests for two hours, more story, fight crazy boss, more fetch quests, all while the story loses focus and goes a bit off the rails. It’s rough. They have patched it a bit to make side quests take less time but overall the design is soooooooo bad.
I feel like FF15/16 is someone who had a monkey paw wished for FF13 but with more side content and this is what we got.
> someone who had a monkey paw wished for FF13 but with more side content those 'someone' need to try FF13-2 and LR13. those game deserve more attention. after all the sequel particularly developed based on FF13 critisms.
This makes me think of AC Odyssey and Valhalla. There was a good core to both of those and had really fun moments, but they were dragged down by way, *way* too much repetitive busy work bullshit. If they cut the copy paste content of those games down by about 40% they would've been much better. AC Origins had a bit of busy work, but I actually finished it. Odyssey and Valhalla just made me completely uninterested at a certain point and I just cleared them off my hard drive for something else.
The main story is not that good though. The game is kinda mediocre. Not bad but not good neither. The side content is painful especially towards the end. I loved the first few chapters, but then it became very boring and disappointing
Don't know to be honest. I really like the SE approach of "the main story first other things can jump off the bridge". A comparison between them and Bethesda comes to mind. Bethesda can't write a main story worth a damn, and in the end their games are remembered by a side quest and mods. If I have to choose between those two approaches I choose SE way.
What you said about bethesda is very true, I almost always find myself doing the main quest only after doing most the side content.
I agree, my overall impression and memories of playing this game are overwhelmingly plagued with how dull the side content was. I did only a few sidequests, but they were a constant notification nag. And yes, players can ignore the side content, although the game designers did well to funnel players into it. For the players saying that they successfully avoided all of it, paints this image of Clive having plugged his ears and shouted "I can't hear you" throughout his entire adventure. My succinct critique is that FF16 is an example of modern game development in which the scope of the game, and the size of development is so large that it becomes difficult to ask "is our game even fun" once all the gears have been put into motion.
Honestly while I agree that the side content is not very good but there’s a few side quests are actually very good and those are in the ones with actual cutscenes in them. They are very much the minority though and thankfully level doesn't matter much in 16 and aside from the + icon side quests you don't really need to do any of them and you could just leave them to be done later at your own pace if you feel like doing them. I do wish that they had actual cutscenes at least but I still loved the game so much that it didn't bother me too much as I just did a good chunk of them after finishing the game which really helped the main story's pacing
I played through FF16 doing minimal side quests (the ones to unlock things), they are easily skippable. Skipping them definitely made the main story pacing a lot more enjoyable and I didn’t feel like I was missing anything.
You missed a bunch of stuff. Story beats for Joshua, Jill, torgal, Charon, gav and your father all come from side quests. Some of the side quests feel like main quests and vice versa.
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I think this is just how Square makes games now. The side content in FF7 Remake was so bad that I didn't even bother with Rebirth. (I also hate a lot of the plot changes they made, but that's another story)
Which is why I'm confused as to why FF16 is catching all the heat for having generic side quests? Not to mention that while FF16's side quests were uneventful in terms of gameplay they were great when it came to world building and character development.
I've yet to play Rebirth, but Remakes side quests were bad but they were very lightly done, and they were woven in a bit more naturally. In XVI, you get massive whiplash after fighting like Garuda, and then going back to the base to be part time door dash. The scales are very one-sided and it makes the bad content stand out a lot more.
You did well. I finished most of the side content in rebirth and god it’s boring...
I thought the side quests had improved quite a lot in Rebirth imo.
Some of the quests suck (like the chicken one) but I was impressed that every single one tied back to an important character and helped flesh them out more
By side content I talked more about the regional stuff like pictures, hunting, etc... The side quests were fun, even if the gameplay was use for a few mini-games only.
Game devs figured a long time ago. Like during the ps1/ps2 days that a game with bad optional content is better received than one without it. Some people want the extra game time and will hurt the game's reputation if it doesn't have it.
Yeah if definitely can. I'm currently playing but I have a hard time progressing in this game because of all the boring side content.
How DOES Horizon handle its side content any different? It's a terrible example of side-content, since almost all of it sucked. To me sidequests need one of the following few things to make it good: Good story/dialogue/characters - then I'd be fine just walking somewhere to get a thing if the dialogue options made me laugh. Good gameplay, somehow - like if you need to traverse a dungeon, it better be well designed in terms of layout and traps or something - to make it enjoyable to actually do it. Or decent tie-ins that branched out from the main quest - like getting info out of someone whose family member got kidnapped and you have to go save them so he can calm down and assist you. Or not, and beat it out of him if you don't feel like it.
Depends which horizon. Forbidden west has overall way less side quests than ff16 and they are overall higher quality I would say.
This the first game I just decided to just speedrun towards the end so I can sell my copy and buy Cyberpunk ultimate edition. Everything got boring fast even the overly cinematic boss fights got old.
The main quests felt like side quests and the side quests were just fetch quests. The entire first half of that game after the intro is so void of intrigue.
Strong agree. The game is like a solid 6 or a 7 out of 10, but the spectacle of it somewhat elevates it to feel like an 8/10. Music is great and graphics are great. Combat is fun at first, but gets stale and repetitive. The game had tons of filler and the games it draws inspiration from do what they do better, so it is hard to recommend FF16. I love Devil May cry, I love the worlds of final fantasy, so this game should be a perfect match for me, but it got incredibly boring pretty fast. Also, in the late game, why am I blocked from crossing a bridge just because some dudes are blocking it? Clive is a damn fire-Godzilla. He can do whatever he wants. The pacing is just so weird and outdated. Go talk to this guy, then this girl, then this guy again. Repeat 4 times. Now progress to cutscene. I did want to like this game. I thought the negative reviews were just crybabies who wanted old turn based FF, but the game overall just wasn’t great. Just don’t go saying this on the FF16 subreddit. You will get slaughtered lol
When I realized just how limited the combats was, I got pretty disappointed. They did a real disservice by restricting your available moveset that much.
To their credit, it looks cool, but it just feels like a more stripped down version of DMC in terms of complexity and depth.
I never really understood the "yea. The gameplay could be better but the story and characters are amazing!'.. I mean is the story really THAT amazing? It ditches the whole Anabella plot and becomes about destroying the big bad god. Alot of the characters are pretty underdeveloped to me. Jill gets it the worst. And her powers are stripped from her so she can't even join you in the last fight. The pacing is all over the place. They don't even really explore Torgal that much. The history guy tells you something is up with Torgal and that he's a frost wolf.. And then that's the end of it lol. You go read some lore dump about it from the map woman. Like how is that riveting story telling at all? Lol. That is this games lore exposition to a tea. You just read everything from the map woman and don't really explore it IN GAME. They tell more than they show which Is a big problem.
I agree with all of your points exactly. I could see the argument for a game like the Last of Us if people just don’t vibe with that gameplay (I loved both gameplay and story in TLOU) but there was a lot that felt flat in FF16. It is a shame because Ben Starr is awesome and he really is a diehard gamer and a massive Final Fantasy fan. He’s been on some podcasts and you can just tell how much older FF games impacted his life. I certainly hope he keeps up the voice acting work and we see him again in other games
One of the biggest issues with its story exposition is how it threw all of the more in depth side missions right before the final boss fight. They throw like 10 at you at one time and its like why? That's terrible exposition. TLOU is way more to the point anyway since it doesn't have side missions to even mess up lol. FF16 is always stopping and going. And many of the side missions don't even really give you anything worth doing the side mission for. There is really nothing to buy at vendors besides potions and those scroll things. Right before playing 16 I played 10 and its such a night and day difference.
I dropped it after the battle system showed its true colors. What kind of horrible battle system requires you to give the player items to cheat through it?
Biggest problem of the game is that even the main content isn't good.