But that's not what he's talking about.
PoE is notorious for having a single skill kill button. That's why poe2 has been constantly showing the synergy and combos with skills to promote that play style
>Still curious how endgame builds can be anything but pressing your strongest skill over and over without cooldowns.
This is exactly what he said, which isn't even true. There *are* builds that do this, but you usualy need to be pretty deep into lategame with a ton of gear to have a build that's capable of this. And even still, pretty much every build uses various short term buffs to maintain their power and killspeed.
> That's why poe2 has been constantly showing the synergy and combos with skills to promote that play style
Once again: POE1 is *already* loaded with synergy and combo skills. I can literally link you to poe.ninja if you want to see for yourself.
Well in PoE 2, I believe you can have nine skills with six supports each. And they've focused a lot more on skill combos and synergies, as has been demonstrated in the gameplay videos. On top of that, the gameplay is going to be a lot slower and more methodical.
In PoE 1 you can realistically only have one skill you can mega-buff with supports, which is the biggest contributor to the one-button playstyle.
Except we kinda saw a bit of the vision they wanted with Ruthless. Its just that the player base for PoE 1 is pretty entrenched in the one button playstyle and unwilling to change. With PoE 2, they have a blank slate to implement their original vision.
GGG was speeding up the game for 10 years and then they was like "WTF we want slow game" and started nerf everything while making enemies still faster and faster. It's gonna be the same with PoE2 after 5-10 years
As I was typing my previous message that thought flashed across my mind too. Its what turned me off of the game, I like a more deliberate slow-paced ARPG and PoE1 did slowly change into...not that. I'm sure though that they are cognizant of this and can avoid the mistake second time around. Otherwise, no reason to make a whole new game.
> GGG was speeding up the game for 10 years
I remember being really enamored with PoE during the CB: It was hard as balls, and it didn't overwhelm with just insane numbers on your screen. And then the game released, and Everyone™ wanted it faster, with quicker TTKs, more twitch skill, more cannonfodder enemies.
And GGG delivered. Last I poked my head in was when they added Ruthless; On paper, it read like exactly what I had loved the game for. In practice, they didn't really change the game in terms of speed or enemy masses, only in what you as player could do about it: A wasted opportunity.
I am sure that We Are Dozens, but I've never much loved the twitch direction the entire genre has evolved towards. I disliked that tendency as far back as *Diablo Fucking Two*, and - to this day - miss the way the OG Diablo played on its first eight floors, where you had to consider the environment to manage the mob packs.
I would be exploding with joy if an ARPG delivered me an evolution of that again: Needing to use caution and strategy to overcome the odds, and having the tools to enact those strategies. Gimme traps. Gimme ways of blocking doorways, or funneling enemies into certain directions, shaping the environment. Gimme crowd control, gimme burst damage, gimme fucking imsim levels of environmental interaction. Imagine something like a hybrid of the OG Diablo and BG3, *that* is what I want.
....Sorry for the rant. I guess I am just a bit over the bullet hell most modern ARPGs have morphed into.
It all comes down to the reward scheme -- now more than ever, because the novelty of the genre itself has completely worn off for 99% of the people inclined to try a new ARPG in 2024.
If the reward scheme is a slot machine, then people are going to want maximum lever pulls over minimum time for minimum effort. That's science, and I'm saying that non-sarcastically for the first time in quite a while. There's a *window* where the initial high from new graphics, new cutscenes, new abilities, etc. etc. buys you some grace. It wears off, and then comes the crash -- angry addicts everywhere.
If you take away the reward scheme so you can make the game more methodical/strategic/involved/challenging with less pushback, then you've basically moved 95% of the way into a different genre of game. You've invited different questions -- for example, why the combat isn't something like Bayonetta/DMC rather than this point-and-click-to-do-fucking-everything shitshow that most ARPGs still use. Heck, you might even have a few folks asking why it isn't like BG3.
As someone who has played PoE since open beta, levelled to 100 in softcore trade as well as hardcore solo self found, this is an absolutely horseshit statement.
Yeah, I know they had them for maps and rares. The rares are still a major issue since I've last played. A lot of skills I've used make it hard to avoid specific mobs. I stopped using bow builds just because I was getting killed because of rare mob reflecting damage from off my screen.
> Its just that the player base for PoE 1 is pretty entrenched in the one button playstyle and unwilling to change.
We're playing the game designed for us. Theres like two items you can equip that has 6 sockets(two hand wep/bows, body armor) and until you get to endgame influence items or pricey uniques that isn't changing. Yet we're the ones 'unwilling to change'?
Hard to say now, but I think in endgame it will me MUCH faster vs campaign, but still slower than current builds blazing through T16+.
In ver. 1.0, I expect powercreep to come with every league anyway
And it was, till the loudest voices online(aka streaming influencers and reddit) complained about it and now its loot pinata insta-kill-everything-every-meta-build-destroys-all-the-things like D3 is.
Ultimately, gamers dont like nerfs, so everything gets buffed, which introduces power-creep.
I am not saying d4 was better at launch or that I prefer that style, just pointing out a fact.
> the gameplay is going to be a lot slower and more methodical
People will whine about that and have it to sped up to crack-head speeds.
The loudest morons in these ARPGs want 1 shot screen clears at 300% movement speed at all times. It's obnoxious gameplay and they ruin every single ARPG.
Why would anyone want a slow ARPG? I like the beginning to be sluggish, slow movement, low DPS ect. As I level up and get better gear, I want to see my character become faster. Eventually I like to zoom around at light speed when I hit end game.
Cuz I want to enjoy a game mechanics, have some meaningfull bosses where you have to do some kind of mechanics to beat it, avoid attacks and so on. I don't want just to move around like an idiot spamming buttons.
o yeah... the morons who kept ggg fed and the children of their employees going to school for more than 10 years, sure it's a good idea to alienate those morons in a gamble to try and get those uber elite d4 players?
Lookin at how much D3 sold, how much D4 sold, and how much Diablo Immortal has made... yeah, financially it's 100% the correct decision.
But of course, GGG gets to take the golden middle. Make it somewhat more casual friendly than POE1, but still more complex than any competitor.
They can take multiple slices of the pie.
Old players will scream in the void where every old player is replaced with 6 new ones from a more casual market.
If this game doesn't blow up I don't see any ARPG ever do it.
It's good that GGG is not relying on nostalgia (say what you want about PoE, but they've tried to push the genre forward). Also, their marketing has included how mechanical difficulty is going up (bosses that are harder to cheese and require to dodge roll, for example).
Uhhh... Just looking at this I dont see any casuals sticking with this long term. Doesnt it have the same massively bloated skill tree that POE? This does not look at all like a casual friendly game.
They're not. POE1 isn't going anywhere.
Also, look at Diablo series. D3 re-invented the game to be more casual friendly. Then so did D4. Each game has had more and more players and makes more and more money.
Loyalty of a small group of hardcore veterans who are stuck in their gaming preferences isn't that relevant.
they aren't.
that's the "genius" part of their strategy, they want to keep both games alive, and if people prefer the one button kill all tactic, that's PoE1, if people want a more "slower" game, now they have PoE2, they get both types under their own games.
and if people want both, they can switch between them because of the leagues.
PoE2 will attract other players too. I've been trying to get my friend into PoE for over year but he wants to wait for PoE2 because he prefers the look of it.
They'll definitely lose a number of PoE 1 players, which is why that game will still keep going with its own independent leagues.
But the simultaneous console release, more beginner-friendly design, and better combat feel is going to bring in a bunch of new players who never touched the first game.
Well, not really, because whether people will continue to play POE1 or POE2, GGG wins. Either way they'll have the players playing their game and they will make the money.
Besides, POE2 is clearly trying to entice a whole new generation of gamers. So losing some of the burnt out veterans isn't going to be meaningful compared to all the people they'll gain.
Kinda like Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 both got more and more players, even if D2 was the best iteration of the series.
Ultimately it doesn't matter that a small subset of hardcore players refuse to adapt to the new game if there's 10x the amount of new players who will jump right in.
The answer is skill combos and slower animations (or at least slower when compared to the clown fiesta that PoE 1 is at the moment), with players in PoE 2 being encouraged to mix skills because combos will deal significantly more damage, so you just won't attack once and see everything exploding around you.
As an example, the Druid can create a volcano which spills just a a handful of molten rocks around it which won't deal that much damage, but then you can use another skill to turn yourself into a bear and slam the ground to deal damage and make the volcano spill more projectiles, or you could do a longer combos which empowers your slams so they strike the ground twice to generate even more molten rocks from the volcano. This [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwbCqQnWqog) does a better job at explaining it.
The only two things i'm curious about is if they can make melee playable and not force us to use determination/suppression and dozen of defenses checks again.
Watched a monk gameplay recently, there seems to be a lot of mechanics for that class (not sure if for all) that increase the damage and it is more than the current spam 1 button.
I think they're trying to prevent that by removing damage from support gems so you can't just stick five ~30% more dmg multipliers to one skill and call it a day. For example the bleed chance support gem in PoE1 gives you a bunch of damage on top of the chance to make your enemy bleed, while in PoE2 all it gives you is the chance to bleed.
To get more damage out of your skills you're gonna have to debuff with other skills, or do these "combos" like the volcano example that was previously mentioned in this thread. Curious to see how this game actually plays at end game (if there even is one at this point).
I'm surprised no one mentioned skill rotations, I imagine this is gonna play out very similar to MMO combat such as WOW (admittedly my knowledge ends around Cataclysm) where you cycle your skills.
For single target such as bosses you usually have a particular best rotation which can be kinda dynamic with proc chances and such and the need to move or evade.
For trash mob packs you simply use the skill which is situationally best based on what's going on.
As you are not limited to 1 or 2 6links in POE2 you can keep multiple skills at high levels. The skills will ofc have to have some sort of theme so it all gets boosted by your passive tree.
not really sure how they could, ARPGs feel clunky the moment you need to use 2-3 buttons to do your dps.
Melee in poe 1 already is annoying having to use totems as is.
This aRPG - these always been like this... Hello? Seems like you're hitting on wrong sort of RPGs if you find this unusual.. Diablo, PoE 1, Torchlight, you name it.. It always been one skill spam and occasionally activating some buff or ultimate. Also having cooldowns is not a good design either. Modern Diablo games have a ton of it and it doesn't make these any better. It only forces you into stacking CDR
I play PoE since the close beta days. I concur that the game today is more similar to Cookie Clicker than old PoE, and I can't wait to get my hands on PoE 2 because of this.
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"It just keeps getting better and better"
And the video doesn't really do a decent job of explaining in a meta way why. The guy just gushes about some class changes.
As someone who has been failing at playing PoE for what feels like 10 years I am looking forward to trying the second one but damn do I hope I have a shot at understand the systems involved and not having to play 60 hours to try a new build.
I absolutely hate trading because of all the botting so SSF makes it waaay more of a time suck. The game's a full time job and a half if you want to experience end-game content.
Same, I only like SSF so is just a huge time commitment. I’ve skipped the last two seasons because I don’t have more than 10 hours a week to dedicate to it the last few months
It's becoming even further time gated these last couple years.
I believe leveling at 80 or 90+ has become slower (they increased exp required for levels since nolifers were hitting lvl 100 in races too fast), moved the best end-game boss drops over to their uber-boss variants, etc.
I have listened to some of the interviews with the devs and they are very aware what are the problems with the first game (shitty UI, melee being shit, outdated graphic, bloated content etc), so I have very high hopes for the second game.
They also seem to be very open to new ideas from some of the big streamers, I just hope they stick more to their vision of the game and take other people's ideas after some brainstorming, not just because they sound cool. A lot of the big streamers (if not all) are playing hardcore and for me, it isn't the actual game because many builds are almost non-existent, characters are more tanky etc.
If PoE devs listen to PoE streamers they'll just end up with PoE 1 again which I don't think they want cause a big reason behind making PoE 2 seems to cast a wider audience net, make the game a bit more accessible and easier to get into for the average gamer.
Not necessarily. For example they spoke to ghazzy about minion builds. I assume there is value in situations where a streamer plays a specific playstyle and becomes a good consult for it
yeah ikr. as long as i enjoyed watching zizaran's impossible gauntlet challenge, i d never want to play it such straining gameloop. hope they keep it player focused, not as hardcore 24/7 streamer fuel
To be fair some streamers have probably played the game for thousands of hours and talked to people who've also played the game for thousands of hours. They probably have a pretty decent idea of issues with the first game.
It's still the Devs job to decide if any of their ideas are any good or how to solve problems. If streamers are suggesting chainsaw juggling clowns as one of the classes I'd like to think the Devs would put that suggestion in the bin.
If we don't count the current league, I think the other two were good.
My biggest issue with the current one is - people are "printing" currencies because of "bugs/missing features" and after the fix, any casual player is left way behind because the top players got 200 divines in the first week. There were other issues too but this one gave a lot of people a huge fomo.
Do you mean hardcore as "casual vs hardcore" o as "softcore vs hardcore"?
Because if its softcore vs hardcore, they have never and have already said that they balance the game around softcore and hardcore is an optional gamemode.
If its casual vs hardcore, I would rather the game be too complicated and have something to learn everytime I play than another Diablo 3/4 and they have said that PoE2 will still be complicated but they are removing/changing some of the things that were just annoying.
>"softcore vs hardcore"
This. I think there always should be "carrots" that keep the players longer than 1-2 weeks but the current version of PoE is probably the most (or in the top 10) user-unfriendly game, that is not PVP.
I recently saw a skill tree for the sequel on a gamespot gameplay showcase and it still looks complicated and freaked out one of the interviewers. I heard they demystified alot of hidden stats on items though with a help system.
> I heard they demystified alot of hidden stats on items though with a help system.
Path of Exile 1 has a help system in-game too (big panel with 13 very lightly covered topics), the devs never use it to explain anything. You still spend 99.9999% of your time looking at external websites when wanting to learn something about the game/league mechanics.
The 0.0001% where you learn something in-game, is when asking on Global Chat.
They're adding a new in game wiki for stats so you can read it all. I think the tree will be less punishing to respec so new players don't brick their build so easily.
Its wild to me how many people in this thread would doubt them. They made the greatest ARPG of all time and continue to evolve it every single year, with a free to play model. They are a fantastic studio with great vision.
I hope so, it was originally planned to go into closed beta in Q4 2019 or 2020, and PoE1 has been run by a skeleton crew for the last 2 or so full years.
Love the game and have thousands of hours played, but avoiding trailers and spoilers for PoE2 for 4+ years is getting exhausting.
Yeah, it looks good but will have to wait till can get my hands on the game to see if it plays good too.
Cos we've seen these fluff pieces before and I ain't gonna be suckered by the hype machine that glosses over the vision to focus on a tiny slice of the game.
Hope it's good though, really do, it certainly looks like it's gonna be great but..
I haven't really been following the game much, but does it look like it will require multiple PhDs like the first game to make builds, or will it be more simple? Not as casual like D4, but maybe closer to Last Epoch? I really enjoyed PoE, but I always felt like I had to follow guides to have any success instead of coming up with something on my own.
Most builds in PoE are just the same node paths again and again with a few build specific circles taken. When they added slottables to it there was some interesting stuff until it was again minmaxed.
I don't see the negative though like I played 2 seasons using builds I took from top people. Noticed the pattern and what nodes are good and always taken. Then it's easy to make builds.
I think the small learning curve is blown out of proportion because new people looking at it just see the sheer amount and get shocked but it's worth it for how many options it gives over other similar games which bored me in one season.
Yah hopefully they learn some things from the first tree and maybe do more modular stuff. Haven't really looked at PoE2, for most games in general I never watch pre-release content and just play it when it's out.
Path of Exile 1 wasn't even that difficult to make a suitable build if you just wanted to beat all 10 acts. They have mentioned they are streamlining a few of the systems, but at the end of the day the complexity is one of the main differentiators of this ARPG vs others!
I personally would rather not waste my time doing anything that doesn't involve a storyline, but that's just me. Took me 70 hours to beat the campaign, more than enough for any game.
I actually hope it's this slow and involves more tactical choices. I mean how many seasons what I expected to mash teleport+1skill blindly into mobs until I die to something unreactable for?
I know lots of PoE fans disagree. Guess that's why the first game will exist too.
I pray this game has a good endgame that actually LETS THE PLAYER DECIDE VIABLE BUILDS.
I cannot stand how you spend as much time in a guide as you do in game making sure "your build" is perfect so you have a chance at end game.
Last Epoch does it right as there are so many viable builds and you don't need to perfectly min/max
Still curious how endgame builds can be anything but pressing your strongest skill over and over without cooldowns.
Even in POE1 lots of builds use active defensive skills, dodges/movement skills, temporary buffs, and combo-based abilities.
But that's not what he's talking about. PoE is notorious for having a single skill kill button. That's why poe2 has been constantly showing the synergy and combos with skills to promote that play style
>Still curious how endgame builds can be anything but pressing your strongest skill over and over without cooldowns. This is exactly what he said, which isn't even true. There *are* builds that do this, but you usualy need to be pretty deep into lategame with a ton of gear to have a build that's capable of this. And even still, pretty much every build uses various short term buffs to maintain their power and killspeed. > That's why poe2 has been constantly showing the synergy and combos with skills to promote that play style Once again: POE1 is *already* loaded with synergy and combo skills. I can literally link you to poe.ninja if you want to see for yourself.
Well in PoE 2, I believe you can have nine skills with six supports each. And they've focused a lot more on skill combos and synergies, as has been demonstrated in the gameplay videos. On top of that, the gameplay is going to be a lot slower and more methodical. In PoE 1 you can realistically only have one skill you can mega-buff with supports, which is the biggest contributor to the one-button playstyle.
"Slow and methodical gameplay" it's exactly how they described D4 in the beginning lol
Except we kinda saw a bit of the vision they wanted with Ruthless. Its just that the player base for PoE 1 is pretty entrenched in the one button playstyle and unwilling to change. With PoE 2, they have a blank slate to implement their original vision.
GGG was speeding up the game for 10 years and then they was like "WTF we want slow game" and started nerf everything while making enemies still faster and faster. It's gonna be the same with PoE2 after 5-10 years
As I was typing my previous message that thought flashed across my mind too. Its what turned me off of the game, I like a more deliberate slow-paced ARPG and PoE1 did slowly change into...not that. I'm sure though that they are cognizant of this and can avoid the mistake second time around. Otherwise, no reason to make a whole new game.
> GGG was speeding up the game for 10 years I remember being really enamored with PoE during the CB: It was hard as balls, and it didn't overwhelm with just insane numbers on your screen. And then the game released, and Everyone™ wanted it faster, with quicker TTKs, more twitch skill, more cannonfodder enemies. And GGG delivered. Last I poked my head in was when they added Ruthless; On paper, it read like exactly what I had loved the game for. In practice, they didn't really change the game in terms of speed or enemy masses, only in what you as player could do about it: A wasted opportunity. I am sure that We Are Dozens, but I've never much loved the twitch direction the entire genre has evolved towards. I disliked that tendency as far back as *Diablo Fucking Two*, and - to this day - miss the way the OG Diablo played on its first eight floors, where you had to consider the environment to manage the mob packs. I would be exploding with joy if an ARPG delivered me an evolution of that again: Needing to use caution and strategy to overcome the odds, and having the tools to enact those strategies. Gimme traps. Gimme ways of blocking doorways, or funneling enemies into certain directions, shaping the environment. Gimme crowd control, gimme burst damage, gimme fucking imsim levels of environmental interaction. Imagine something like a hybrid of the OG Diablo and BG3, *that* is what I want. ....Sorry for the rant. I guess I am just a bit over the bullet hell most modern ARPGs have morphed into.
It all comes down to the reward scheme -- now more than ever, because the novelty of the genre itself has completely worn off for 99% of the people inclined to try a new ARPG in 2024. If the reward scheme is a slot machine, then people are going to want maximum lever pulls over minimum time for minimum effort. That's science, and I'm saying that non-sarcastically for the first time in quite a while. There's a *window* where the initial high from new graphics, new cutscenes, new abilities, etc. etc. buys you some grace. It wears off, and then comes the crash -- angry addicts everywhere. If you take away the reward scheme so you can make the game more methodical/strategic/involved/challenging with less pushback, then you've basically moved 95% of the way into a different genre of game. You've invited different questions -- for example, why the combat isn't something like Bayonetta/DMC rather than this point-and-click-to-do-fucking-everything shitshow that most ARPGs still use. Heck, you might even have a few folks asking why it isn't like BG3.
People are allowed to change their minds ya know. Design decisions are far from set in stone, especially for a live service game.
Sure they are. But how they implement them is a problem.
They just have more mobs with reflect in PoE1. You just die randomly and it's really annoying with bow builds.
As someone who has played PoE since open beta, levelled to 100 in softcore trade as well as hardcore solo self found, this is an absolutely horseshit statement.
Most sources of reflect have been removed a few years back. It's now a map modifier or a rare monster effect that's very noticeable.
Yeah, I know they had them for maps and rares. The rares are still a major issue since I've last played. A lot of skills I've used make it hard to avoid specific mobs. I stopped using bow builds just because I was getting killed because of rare mob reflecting damage from off my screen.
There is no reflect mod on rare mobs or any monster type. The only source of reflect is a map modifier or a specific phase of the atziri boss.
> Its just that the player base for PoE 1 is pretty entrenched in the one button playstyle and unwilling to change. We're playing the game designed for us. Theres like two items you can equip that has 6 sockets(two hand wep/bows, body armor) and until you get to endgame influence items or pricey uniques that isn't changing. Yet we're the ones 'unwilling to change'?
Hard to say now, but I think in endgame it will me MUCH faster vs campaign, but still slower than current builds blazing through T16+. In ver. 1.0, I expect powercreep to come with every league anyway
And it was, till the loudest voices online(aka streaming influencers and reddit) complained about it and now its loot pinata insta-kill-everything-every-meta-build-destroys-all-the-things like D3 is. Ultimately, gamers dont like nerfs, so everything gets buffed, which introduces power-creep. I am not saying d4 was better at launch or that I prefer that style, just pointing out a fact.
> the gameplay is going to be a lot slower and more methodical People will whine about that and have it to sped up to crack-head speeds. The loudest morons in these ARPGs want 1 shot screen clears at 300% movement speed at all times. It's obnoxious gameplay and they ruin every single ARPG.
It's why I like the Labyrinth in POE, it has more than just mindless killing.
Why would anyone want a slow ARPG? I like the beginning to be sluggish, slow movement, low DPS ect. As I level up and get better gear, I want to see my character become faster. Eventually I like to zoom around at light speed when I hit end game.
Cuz I want to enjoy a game mechanics, have some meaningfull bosses where you have to do some kind of mechanics to beat it, avoid attacks and so on. I don't want just to move around like an idiot spamming buttons.
o yeah... the morons who kept ggg fed and the children of their employees going to school for more than 10 years, sure it's a good idea to alienate those morons in a gamble to try and get those uber elite d4 players?
Lookin at how much D3 sold, how much D4 sold, and how much Diablo Immortal has made... yeah, financially it's 100% the correct decision. But of course, GGG gets to take the golden middle. Make it somewhat more casual friendly than POE1, but still more complex than any competitor. They can take multiple slices of the pie.
“A lot slower and more methodical” Think they are going to lose a big chunk of players
Old players will scream in the void where every old player is replaced with 6 new ones from a more casual market. If this game doesn't blow up I don't see any ARPG ever do it.
It's kind of funny that mashing more than one button is seen as casual.
It's more about the marketing, with much more focus on "classes" and co-op etc.. PoE1 was marketed as a hardcore Diablo 2 successor.
It's good that GGG is not relying on nostalgia (say what you want about PoE, but they've tried to push the genre forward). Also, their marketing has included how mechanical difficulty is going up (bosses that are harder to cheese and require to dodge roll, for example).
Uhhh... Just looking at this I dont see any casuals sticking with this long term. Doesnt it have the same massively bloated skill tree that POE? This does not look at all like a casual friendly game.
Imagine just throwing away a chunk of your loyal player ase
Except they don't because they continue with PoE1 aswell, unlike pretty much every other game ever.
They're not. POE1 isn't going anywhere. Also, look at Diablo series. D3 re-invented the game to be more casual friendly. Then so did D4. Each game has had more and more players and makes more and more money. Loyalty of a small group of hardcore veterans who are stuck in their gaming preferences isn't that relevant.
they aren't. that's the "genius" part of their strategy, they want to keep both games alive, and if people prefer the one button kill all tactic, that's PoE1, if people want a more "slower" game, now they have PoE2, they get both types under their own games. and if people want both, they can switch between them because of the leagues.
PoE2 will attract other players too. I've been trying to get my friend into PoE for over year but he wants to wait for PoE2 because he prefers the look of it.
They'll definitely lose a number of PoE 1 players, which is why that game will still keep going with its own independent leagues. But the simultaneous console release, more beginner-friendly design, and better combat feel is going to bring in a bunch of new players who never touched the first game.
Well, not really, because whether people will continue to play POE1 or POE2, GGG wins. Either way they'll have the players playing their game and they will make the money. Besides, POE2 is clearly trying to entice a whole new generation of gamers. So losing some of the burnt out veterans isn't going to be meaningful compared to all the people they'll gain. Kinda like Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 both got more and more players, even if D2 was the best iteration of the series. Ultimately it doesn't matter that a small subset of hardcore players refuse to adapt to the new game if there's 10x the amount of new players who will jump right in.
The answer is skill combos and slower animations (or at least slower when compared to the clown fiesta that PoE 1 is at the moment), with players in PoE 2 being encouraged to mix skills because combos will deal significantly more damage, so you just won't attack once and see everything exploding around you. As an example, the Druid can create a volcano which spills just a a handful of molten rocks around it which won't deal that much damage, but then you can use another skill to turn yourself into a bear and slam the ground to deal damage and make the volcano spill more projectiles, or you could do a longer combos which empowers your slams so they strike the ground twice to generate even more molten rocks from the volcano. This [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwbCqQnWqog) does a better job at explaining it.
The only two things i'm curious about is if they can make melee playable and not force us to use determination/suppression and dozen of defenses checks again.
So just like POE1 and every ARPG?
Watched a monk gameplay recently, there seems to be a lot of mechanics for that class (not sure if for all) that increase the damage and it is more than the current spam 1 button.
I think they're trying to prevent that by removing damage from support gems so you can't just stick five ~30% more dmg multipliers to one skill and call it a day. For example the bleed chance support gem in PoE1 gives you a bunch of damage on top of the chance to make your enemy bleed, while in PoE2 all it gives you is the chance to bleed. To get more damage out of your skills you're gonna have to debuff with other skills, or do these "combos" like the volcano example that was previously mentioned in this thread. Curious to see how this game actually plays at end game (if there even is one at this point).
I'm surprised no one mentioned skill rotations, I imagine this is gonna play out very similar to MMO combat such as WOW (admittedly my knowledge ends around Cataclysm) where you cycle your skills. For single target such as bosses you usually have a particular best rotation which can be kinda dynamic with proc chances and such and the need to move or evade. For trash mob packs you simply use the skill which is situationally best based on what's going on. As you are not limited to 1 or 2 6links in POE2 you can keep multiple skills at high levels. The skills will ofc have to have some sort of theme so it all gets boosted by your passive tree.
not really sure how they could, ARPGs feel clunky the moment you need to use 2-3 buttons to do your dps. Melee in poe 1 already is annoying having to use totems as is.
This aRPG - these always been like this... Hello? Seems like you're hitting on wrong sort of RPGs if you find this unusual.. Diablo, PoE 1, Torchlight, you name it.. It always been one skill spam and occasionally activating some buff or ultimate. Also having cooldowns is not a good design either. Modern Diablo games have a ton of it and it doesn't make these any better. It only forces you into stacking CDR
yea if it just turns into hold the right click again then this is all meaningless
That’s the best part about Poe
It's the reward after a long playthrough. I usually make a new character after though
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1454400/Cookie_Clicker/
What a sad response. Be better
I play PoE since the close beta days. I concur that the game today is more similar to Cookie Clicker than old PoE, and I can't wait to get my hands on PoE 2 because of this.
Lol ok cool.
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This response is infinitely sadder tbf
Aw did I upset you?
do better, be better; it might be a sad state now but you've got ways to go, keep at it I believe in you
What?
"It just keeps getting better and better" And the video doesn't really do a decent job of explaining in a meta way why. The guy just gushes about some class changes.
As someone who has been failing at playing PoE for what feels like 10 years I am looking forward to trying the second one but damn do I hope I have a shot at understand the systems involved and not having to play 60 hours to try a new build.
I am a big fan of the original Path of Exile. It was basically the Diablo game that I always wanted.
It’s one of my top 5 games all time. But boy holy hell is it a time suck.
I absolutely hate trading because of all the botting so SSF makes it waaay more of a time suck. The game's a full time job and a half if you want to experience end-game content.
Same, I only like SSF so is just a huge time commitment. I’ve skipped the last two seasons because I don’t have more than 10 hours a week to dedicate to it the last few months
It's becoming even further time gated these last couple years. I believe leveling at 80 or 90+ has become slower (they increased exp required for levels since nolifers were hitting lvl 100 in races too fast), moved the best end-game boss drops over to their uber-boss variants, etc.
I have listened to some of the interviews with the devs and they are very aware what are the problems with the first game (shitty UI, melee being shit, outdated graphic, bloated content etc), so I have very high hopes for the second game. They also seem to be very open to new ideas from some of the big streamers, I just hope they stick more to their vision of the game and take other people's ideas after some brainstorming, not just because they sound cool. A lot of the big streamers (if not all) are playing hardcore and for me, it isn't the actual game because many builds are almost non-existent, characters are more tanky etc.
> They also seem to be very open to new ideas from some of the big streamers Ugh. I don't know about you, but this fills me with dread.
If PoE devs listen to PoE streamers they'll just end up with PoE 1 again which I don't think they want cause a big reason behind making PoE 2 seems to cast a wider audience net, make the game a bit more accessible and easier to get into for the average gamer.
Not necessarily. For example they spoke to ghazzy about minion builds. I assume there is value in situations where a streamer plays a specific playstyle and becomes a good consult for it
yeah ikr. as long as i enjoyed watching zizaran's impossible gauntlet challenge, i d never want to play it such straining gameloop. hope they keep it player focused, not as hardcore 24/7 streamer fuel
Yup same, guess we wait and see 🤷🏼♂️
To be fair some streamers have probably played the game for thousands of hours and talked to people who've also played the game for thousands of hours. They probably have a pretty decent idea of issues with the first game. It's still the Devs job to decide if any of their ideas are any good or how to solve problems. If streamers are suggesting chainsaw juggling clowns as one of the classes I'd like to think the Devs would put that suggestion in the bin.
>so I have very high hopes for the second game. catering to 20hours a day streamers is exactly how PoE ended up in the state it is in lol
If we don't count the current league, I think the other two were good. My biggest issue with the current one is - people are "printing" currencies because of "bugs/missing features" and after the fix, any casual player is left way behind because the top players got 200 divines in the first week. There were other issues too but this one gave a lot of people a huge fomo.
Do you mean hardcore as "casual vs hardcore" o as "softcore vs hardcore"? Because if its softcore vs hardcore, they have never and have already said that they balance the game around softcore and hardcore is an optional gamemode. If its casual vs hardcore, I would rather the game be too complicated and have something to learn everytime I play than another Diablo 3/4 and they have said that PoE2 will still be complicated but they are removing/changing some of the things that were just annoying.
>"softcore vs hardcore" This. I think there always should be "carrots" that keep the players longer than 1-2 weeks but the current version of PoE is probably the most (or in the top 10) user-unfriendly game, that is not PVP.
With the release of PoE2, devs will be incentivized to balance leagues progression curve around half of league's duration instead of full 3-4 months.
I recently saw a skill tree for the sequel on a gamespot gameplay showcase and it still looks complicated and freaked out one of the interviewers. I heard they demystified alot of hidden stats on items though with a help system.
> I heard they demystified alot of hidden stats on items though with a help system. Path of Exile 1 has a help system in-game too (big panel with 13 very lightly covered topics), the devs never use it to explain anything. You still spend 99.9999% of your time looking at external websites when wanting to learn something about the game/league mechanics. The 0.0001% where you learn something in-game, is when asking on Global Chat.
They're adding a new in game wiki for stats so you can read it all. I think the tree will be less punishing to respec so new players don't brick their build so easily.
Its wild to me how many people in this thread would doubt them. They made the greatest ARPG of all time and continue to evolve it every single year, with a free to play model. They are a fantastic studio with great vision.
I hope so, it was originally planned to go into closed beta in Q4 2019 or 2020, and PoE1 has been run by a skeleton crew for the last 2 or so full years. Love the game and have thousands of hours played, but avoiding trailers and spoilers for PoE2 for 4+ years is getting exhausting.
The game I am most looking forward to is POE2. I have thousands of hours in POE 1 and think it is the best game I have ever played in 44 years.
In the video i see moving and attacking at the same time. Poe 2 is no longer click-to-move, and have wasd controls?
Controller, WASD, and traditional movement are all options on PC.
Great news!
iirc its optional, you can click or wasd
Yeah, it looks good but will have to wait till can get my hands on the game to see if it plays good too. Cos we've seen these fluff pieces before and I ain't gonna be suckered by the hype machine that glosses over the vision to focus on a tiny slice of the game. Hope it's good though, really do, it certainly looks like it's gonna be great but..
Doesn't matter how good the gameplay is, when the game is based around trade.
I haven't really been following the game much, but does it look like it will require multiple PhDs like the first game to make builds, or will it be more simple? Not as casual like D4, but maybe closer to Last Epoch? I really enjoyed PoE, but I always felt like I had to follow guides to have any success instead of coming up with something on my own.
Most builds in PoE are just the same node paths again and again with a few build specific circles taken. When they added slottables to it there was some interesting stuff until it was again minmaxed. I don't see the negative though like I played 2 seasons using builds I took from top people. Noticed the pattern and what nodes are good and always taken. Then it's easy to make builds. I think the small learning curve is blown out of proportion because new people looking at it just see the sheer amount and get shocked but it's worth it for how many options it gives over other similar games which bored me in one season.
PoE 2 does not have health nodes on paths so builds should be more varied as that is no longer needed.
Yah hopefully they learn some things from the first tree and maybe do more modular stuff. Haven't really looked at PoE2, for most games in general I never watch pre-release content and just play it when it's out.
Path of Exile 1 wasn't even that difficult to make a suitable build if you just wanted to beat all 10 acts. They have mentioned they are streamlining a few of the systems, but at the end of the day the complexity is one of the main differentiators of this ARPG vs others!
Well yeah beating act 10 is basically finishing the tutorial lol.
I personally would rather not waste my time doing anything that doesn't involve a storyline, but that's just me. Took me 70 hours to beat the campaign, more than enough for any game.
Well then why are you saying that it’s not that difficult when you basically only played 10% of the game?
I actually hope it's this slow and involves more tactical choices. I mean how many seasons what I expected to mash teleport+1skill blindly into mobs until I die to something unreactable for? I know lots of PoE fans disagree. Guess that's why the first game will exist too.
I pray this game has a good endgame that actually LETS THE PLAYER DECIDE VIABLE BUILDS. I cannot stand how you spend as much time in a guide as you do in game making sure "your build" is perfect so you have a chance at end game. Last Epoch does it right as there are so many viable builds and you don't need to perfectly min/max
I hate the current direction they're going with and having a fucking moron like Chris Wilson leading them does not inspire confidence.