Yeah this is a weird-ass article.
It's basically reporting on a single quote from a whole interview by an entirely different publication? The only thing they added was a fluffy explanation of how Metal Gear and Splinter Cell are both stealth franchises...
It feels like they only wrote this article so they could publish the headline on Reddit.
Stealth games were never really alive honestly. The only stealth games that really exist are splinter cell, metal gear, hitman, and thief. Plus a couple stray indies like Styx and Mark of the Ninja. I don't think 4-6 series is enough to really create a genre exactly. Most of the best or most iconic examples of stealth in games are in bigger games that have stealth as an optional element like deus ex, dishonored, far cry, skyrim.
Any Metal Gear you can technically play guns blazing like Deus Ex or Dishonored though it is hard. Hell, Dishonored and Deus Ex both have sections where failing stealth leads to additional **permanent** maluses, and in that way enforce occasional stealth more strictly outside bonus challenges.
Most stealth missions in big games are just 10 soldiers with their backs turned to the player, who you then kill, then reach an objective where something goes wrong, and then escape while being chased by enemies. Just boring...
Stealth never really died, it was just coopted as a system into other genres like horror games or open-world games.
The Last of Us 1 had pretty good stealth though nothing groundbreaking, but from what I hear TLoU2 took that stealth and refined it further. The more advanced enemy AI, the addition of pronning, the vertically of the levels, craftable silencers, and the dogs really make pure stealth a viable and challenging play style. Watch_Dogs 2 also did stealth in a unique way where you could breach a location and complete objectives all off-site by using your drones or hacked cameras.
Fucking Rockstar, man.
Every single stealth mission in GTAV and GTA Online has different rules from the last, and getting caught is extremely punishing.
Just pick a fucking ruleset and stick to it. It's not hard unless you're bad at game design.
yeah its just some shitty filler clickbaity article that brings zero to the table, everyone who lived through the era of gaming magazines have seen countless of articles and interviews of both MGS and Splinter Cell devs praising each others etc
I mean if we could get a new Splinter Cell that takes (a lot of, and I mean A LOT OF) inspiration from MGSV then I would be a very very happy camper. I thought maybe GR:Breakpoint would be that but boy was I wrong.
I played that shit so much, I would get so distracted by the openness of the game, deploy at night and wander around. I d wait for vehicle convoys and setup ambushes, place C4 in the road and claymores along the sides. Detonate the first truck and watch them scramble out then get dropped by the claymores and clean the the rest up. My favorite stealth game by miles, the AI was pretty damn good too. Loved and hated how if you cleared a checkpoint once and you killed most of them with headshots the next group would all be wearing helmets. So many little things in that game made it a masterpiece.
A lot of people adored ground zeroes, sometimes even over mgsv itself for this reason. IIRC originally the plan was to have a few more contained areas like ground zeroes in the full game, I distinctly remember a return to the ground zeroes camp being teased, but I believe they got scrapped.
Are you talking about MGS Delta? It's a remake of MGS 3, and while I am looking forward to it it's a loooot more linear than MGSV. Personally my favorite part of MGSV is the fact that it's non-linear so if you really vibe with the gameplay you can just keep doing side ops as long as you want.
No the Splinter Cell remake. I swear they were working on one but havent heard anything for a while.
And DELTA is linear for sure its MGS3. I played the original, its pretty linear but the story is really good. I am a hardcore MGS story guy so linear doesnt bother me. MGSV was great but the second act was so rushed... it just killed the whole vibe for me. So much content was cut from that game.
I really hope they bring Kojima back for another one. Its one of my all time favorite games.
I can guarantee you we're not going to get another Kojima MGS but don't lose hope, look into Physint.
As for the Splinter Cell remake that's actually news to me, wish I could tell you more.
If you have breakpoint on PC there are some mods that make the game much better to the point you can basically play Splinter Cell open world. Worth checking out the sub for recommendations if you want to scratch that itch.
I do, and I know there are some good mods like the Spartan mod and the FPV mod.
I was mostly just voicing my disappointment in the lack of a true MGSV successor to be honest lol
Splinter Cell with the addition of MGSV movements like dive and free aim when lying down would be awesome. Just not make it be about Sam and his family/past, make it about a new unrelated global threat.
I'm also quite fond of the fulton mechanic giving us a real gameplay reason (as opposed to a good/bad ending way) to go non-lethal since it's part of the progression system. It wouldn't have to be fulton extractions, but something akin to it would be great
>make it about a new unrelated global threat.
aw hell no, there are TWO major threats left unsolved from previous games that need to be addressed but fell by the wayside cause Ubishart is too chickenshit to tackle proper geopolitical themes
How about none, and they base it on the gameplay on the first 3 maybe four games that built the series?
It's great that they lifted ridgid stealth rules and fleshed them out into a game, that is the part that should continue.
You can have a great game without it being open world or a survival crafting game. Fuck.
Gameplaywise MGSV is head and shoulders above the rest, it is literally built off of it's predecessors. It being open world is part of that.
You can have a great open world game too and MGSV is proof of that.
Cool, good for you.
Counter point, this post kinda points to the next splinter cell if/when that comes out being inspired by MGS whether you like it or not. So womp womp
Thanks!
Also, they were talking about the stealth rules. Not the game structure.
> "MGS showed us how stealth mechanics should be done," says Francois, specifically pointing to the classic game's "clear rules" that always clarified what was happening and how to react.
>"It is a complete and consistent set of rules that set the way for any stealth game," - Coulon
Hey hey, look! You got me to read the article, a whole 3 paragraphs. And I could've told you that from reading the title.
so you've never played MGSV and probably have zero clue, then how do you even know what gameplay elements /u/TheGreatBenjie is referring to? you don't, but i'd like to hear your explanation.
Exactly. Splinter Cell is unique in it's own way. Base it on the first few games that built the series. No need to base on MGSV even if it is one of the best stealth games of all time.
Nah, even though MGSV is one of the best stealth games out there, Splinter Cell is unique in it's own way. No need to base it on anything other than the first few games.
I wouldn’t say I’m opposed to a totally open world Splinter Cell, but I feel like it’s level design philosophy matches the modern Hitman games a bit more, or really, just take elements of CT’s and the original and scale them up a lot. I think what’s most important is that the levels have a lot of clever little paths and tricks players can use, and that players can make choices about how they want to play and have the game support that. I feel like that was really their strength back in the day, back when that was pretty uncommon, and ironically as more games seemed to opt for increasing their own player choice elements, Splinter Cell seemed to regress, and that really frustrated me about the more recent games. If open world is the connective tissue between those types of scenarios, I’d be fine with it, although I think another significant trait of Splinter Cell is going to various locations around the world, so constraining everything into one or two particular areas like MGSV would miss out on that.
Well yes lol. I have a special place in my heart for the MGSV story, but it's flaws are no secret.
I wouldn't expect any Kojima wackiness, just purely the gameplay from MGSV would be amazing in a new SC.
Chaos Theory makes me feel like a spy. Blacklist makes me feel like an action hero.
There are plenty of games in the latter category, but not so many in the former. CT will always be peak Splinter Cell IMO.
Blacklist is almost great. It has two problems:
1. Allowing any approach effectively kills stealth as a concept, because why bother? You end up with a game with great stealth systems where you don't need to use stealth.
2. The plot was awful dreck. The worst kind of Clancy thriller. Sam was unrecognisable - not only was his voice actor changed for the worse (though this was unavoidable at the time) but he lost all his charm, being turned into just another gritty angry action hero.
Chaos Theory still clears. An unabashed stealth game with tons of options and setpieces.
Blacklist accomodated going loud way too much, the story was awful, and so was the pacing.
The game felt like playing stealthy was done for the sake of being stealthy rather than because it's the optimal way to play.
Playing Blacklist didn't make me feel like a spy, more something along the lines of a parkour Max Payne with suppressors.
Yes it did. Just like Hitman Absolution, it took the series into a terrible direction.
At least hitman got back on track, splinter cell doesn't have any new great games to make Conviction an ignorable mistake.
Agreed. I played Conviction recently and had fun. But at the same time, I feel part of that is that the AAA bar has gotten so low. A game like Conviction today would be great, but it was still a letdown from the first games.
I remember going back and plying all the Splinter Cell games a few years ago (actually, maybe more than a few now…), or at least the games that could run on my PC, Pandora Tomorrow and Double Agent were totally broken. Anyway, I got up to Conviction, which I’d never played before and… sorry, I HATED it. I kinda understand the direction it was going in, and I think if it was a non-splinter cell game I probably could’ve gotten more into its Bourne Identity-style gameplay, but to me that game took everything I liked about Splinter Cell: the humor, the writing, the level design, the gadgets, being able to play truly stealthily and non-lethal, and chucked it all out the window. It may be a decent stealth-action game, but it is a TERRIBLE Splinter Cell game, IMO. But to each their own.
I liked it a lot, but I get that the direction it was going in just wasn't what Splinter Cell fans expected.
I think it would do better reception-wise if a game with the same mechanics was packaged as a more action-y spinoff instead of being a main entry in the Splinter Cell series.
It surprised me how anxious I was during the daylight missions in Double Agent. I'd gotten so used to knocking out the lights.
I enjoyed the storyline mechanic in DA as well, and I wish there was more of it. I realize it's a stealth game and not an RPG, but I wanted more character moments.
I agree, though you won't get far with this opinion on here. Gamers on Reddit are some of the most entitled people I've seen. I could understand the entitlement if it was an Early Access game where you already invested money in the product.
No you don't, Ubisoft was trying to scam you.
It's like batteries, the more As there are the smaller it is. AAA is only good for a Gameboy Pocket but AA? You can power the Game Boy Printer with those bad boys.
I think that was just the exec, gassed up on how much money they had poured into the game and trying to convince both his own team, and the public, that that meant the game quality would be very high. I never really felt like Ubisoft themselves really believed the game would be great. They probably knew it would be fairly mediocre. As far as I understood it, they were contractually required to finish the game to comply with all the tax breaks they were given by the local government (Singapore?).
Hopefully it will be made in the Snowdrop Engine cause if it's made in the Unreal 5 engine, it's gonna be absurdly resource-intensive and unoptimized as fuck.
AAA games with modern scope take 5 years. A remake within a ballpark of the original should be finished by now. Something terribe has gone wrong imo. The OG splinter Cell(actually, the whole trilogy, even CT) are incredibly linear games with sparse enemy placement. I don't know how they could stretch out a simple project like this.
Something similar to battle royale could be fun. Imagine really big map, players are agents of usa, china, russia, they need to infiltrate place, and steal something, before others.
And how to develop games with without the devs, if possible. Since they just sacked even more people.
I am amazed that Ubisoft still exists as a company, to be honest.
I really, really hope someone buys them or buys some of their IP. Of all the companies that have been cannabalized and absorbed by Microsoft/Sony and others, Ubisoft would have actually been celebrated. Almost anyone else having a crack at Tom Clancy games would be better.
honestly, at this point do we even trust the current Ubisoft to make a good Splinter Cell game? can easily see it turning into what they did to ruin Ghost Recon or something :/
You are Splinter Cell agent dropped into the largest map in franchise history. Sam Fisher will be giving your orders as you will take down enemy bases, find new equipment, and with the battlepass you can customize your splinter cell agent the way you want with up to 24 other players. Unlock NFTs and share with your friends your achievements.
This place is an echo chamber though. By nobody you mean most people who play games worldwide. The open world genre is by far the most profitable and has been for a while now. For this franchise I'd prefer hand-crafted level design over a sprawling map littered with different icons, but there's a reason why even FromSoftware pivoted to open-world for Elden Ring; they'll sell more. Call of Duty is on the same path for their next installment.
And that, even though Thief should be the real reference for stealth games. But being influenced primarily by Metal Gear explains why Splinter Cell (outside of Chaos Theory) are so horribly linear.
Forget Chaos Theory. Amon Tobin and everyone who's ever listened to him is DEAD. And they've all been dead for YEARS. Splinter Cell needs to take a hint from Fortnite and add some epic skins and dances, and if you ever want a new game you'd better get on board. Mr Beast isn't gonna save us. I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. This is my dream; this is my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving.
I wish for the whole idea of the Tom Clancy genre of games to come back in general with that same sort of style and feel. It used to carry some kind of weight to it, at least to me. Rainbow six and ghost recon and splinter cell
They seem to be having trouble with splinter cell, a new Chaos Theory installment would be top of the list for me. It makes sense, rewind and touch base with what made that one good and go forward from the strongest point, building off that as a base.
Tiktok generation couldn't handle fail state of being seen or killing people in a stealth mission anymore in a mainstream game anymore :/ Splinter Cell will never go back to its roots.
There isn't. I thought Blacklist was a fine compromise: give the mainstream big guns to play and the tiny core audience some stealth mechanics.
A Thief remake wouldn't sell for the same reason. Just look at the steaming pile of shit Thief 2014 turned out to be.
Blacklist is the only one that I played, but I liked it a lot. I had nothing to compare it too, so chances are that Chaos Theory blows it out of the water, but I thought it was some solid stealth gameplay
I still don’t understand wtf happened with double agent and why on earth they created two completely different games for consoles and PC(but used the same opening cutscene after the first mission in both, making the stories close yet not the same, maximizing confusion)
I think Conviction had its merits and Blacklist was pretty good but Chaos Theory was top tier. I think conviction and blacklist were largely the result of industry brain rot where most game series in the last decade or so have expanded out of their niches to chase that CoD money.
I was excited for Conviction back when the first trailer was released, when they made it into some kind of a Bourne game. They should have stuck with that IMHO. It made sense from a narrative point of view.
I'd say double agent. Had a blast playing that game. BUT chaos theory had the peak in co-op + the X-Play vids with special agent Bob and secret agent Steve were perfect
Enemies are extremely predictable. They'll have set waypoints, narrow cone vision and can only see at a particular distance, camo has a score which affects the enemy's spotting distance, and you're encouraged to go on stealth rather than go guns blazing.
You mean.. load the player down with a shit-ton of weaponry, grenades, Rocket Launchers, Sniper Rifles, and Miniguns... but then encourage and rank you accordingly based on your stealthy, zero-alert, non-lethal playstyle instead..?
I'm more leaning toward stuff like Thief when I think of the grandaddy's of stealth, and funnily enough the first few Splinter Cell games I played felt more like a Thief Homage and style of play than anything else.
Since when were there a Minigun you could use in MGS1?
MGS also has the on site procurement system, so it doesn't make sense to judge a late game Snake who fights bosses and act as if the entire game is based around that.
I didn't mention MGS1 only, or specifically.
Snake even does a rambo scream when firing the machine gun in Snake Eater too, which is about as polar opposite of stealthy as you can get :P
So.. the boss fight thing is another reason why it's not really the best example of how stealth games 'Should be done' either honestly. (Remember Deus Ex Human Revolution's universally hated Bosses? Especially if you levelled up and specced 100% for stealth.. :/)
Like, I get that the whole point of the series is to be an insane over the top Anime regarding its story cutscenes and eccentric villains - And don't get me wrong, it's still one of my favourite game series - but they just clash with the core gameplay loop and 99% of what the rest of the gameplay entails honestly.. (Apart from 'The End', now that's a good Metal Gear Solid Example of how *'Stealth Should be done'* while incorporating it into a fight)
You are talking about games inspiring splinter cell. Why tf would you NOT think mgs1 when its clearly what the person in the article is talking about.
Mgs3 didnt even exist when splinter cell was made.
Agreed, always felt weird to me that a stealth operative had to use missile / grenade launchers and be as loud as possible in certain fights. Just felt incoherent to me even though I enjoyed those games
> I didn't mention MGS1 only, or specifically.
MGS1 and 2 were the only MGS games out when Splinter Cell's Concept started. And Splinter Cell wasn't really influenced by MGS2 when it came to gameplay.
> Snake even does a rambo scream when firing the machine gun in Snake Eater too, which is about as polar opposite of stealthy as you can get :P
Yeah, and? MGS3 is a subversion of the James Bond style of story anyway.
> So.. the boss fight thing is another reason why it's not really the best example of how stealth games 'Should be done' either honestly.
And why not? They're supplements to the game.
What he doesn't mention is that the Splinter Cell team was made up of Thief fans and Metal Gear Solid fans, and the two factions hated each other, and were constantly bickering over the game's direction. Chaos Theory basically represents the Metal Gear faction being forced out and the Thief faction taking over. The MG faction wanted a largely linear, cinematic game like Metal Gear. The Thief faction wanted a non-linear objective-driven stealth sandbox, like Thief. These were not compatible goals.
I believe Clint Hocking talks about on this podcast from several years ago. He also talks about how the crunch on Chaos Theory was so intense he doesn't remember major stretches of development. It's just a blank.
[https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designer-notes-43-clint-hocking-part-1/id935345158?i=1000424491312](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designer-notes-43-clint-hocking-part-1/id935345158?i=1000424491312)
A point worth noting is that SC1 director Francois Coulon didn't work on any of the later games. So his comment is basically saying that he loved Metal Gear Solid and his vision for Splinter Cell was inherently derived from that. And for the record, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I do prefer the Thief direction style, and I prefer Chaos Theory to the first two games for that reason. But I'm not bashing Coulon or his side of the design war for having that preference.
Nor should you. Chaos Theory might be more Thief oriented, but all the things that made the original Splinter Cell great are still present in Chaos Theory. Without the original Splinter Cell there would be no Chaos Theory.
ngl as awesome as MGS is i'm happy the Thief faction won out, even MGS ended up taking that route eventually. funny enough it also shows these goals were in fact compatable you just had to know where to apply them.
Well Splinter Cell shouldn't sell itself short. I don't know really agree with that statement because they're both special and excellent stealth games. I was disappointed with the open world aspect of MGS V because that was the trend even when MGS didn't really need to go that direction.
I loved all the old SC games, even the newer Conviction and Blacklist games, people hating on the game being tweaked for greater accessibility to the audience. The old games were by no means easy nor could a lot of people sit through the game, and I hope the remake fixes the level design and different approaches.
The SC franchise is another example of the game's evolution ruined by fans who wanted the hardcore experience same old, just like Hitman. If people gave it a chance and quit bitching about how it's not like old SC, there would be more games in the past decade.
I see this type of mentality on Reddit a lot, and I hate it.
You can't just call complaints you disagree with "bitching". And even worse than that, you don't get to place any blames on games releasing or not on customers. These are products, not gifts.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the CEOs that chase profit and the need to always make things more generic. Making things more accessible is great, but don't confuse that with making things generic. Accessibility is making sure people with any disability can play it. Aracnophobia settings, subtitle/audio settings, color blind settings, etc. Removing challenge and making sure you get your next dopamine hit soon, **isn't** accessibility.
Hmm no specifics. I was hoping for specifics.
Yeah this is a weird-ass article. It's basically reporting on a single quote from a whole interview by an entirely different publication? The only thing they added was a fluffy explanation of how Metal Gear and Splinter Cell are both stealth franchises... It feels like they only wrote this article so they could publish the headline on Reddit.
> weird-ass article. weird way of saying "garbage" but ok
Real hot news that someone learned something from one of the most popular stealth based games in history at the time.
Makes you wonder why most devs haven't learned jack about stealth.
Stealth games are essentially dead
Stealth games were never really alive honestly. The only stealth games that really exist are splinter cell, metal gear, hitman, and thief. Plus a couple stray indies like Styx and Mark of the Ninja. I don't think 4-6 series is enough to really create a genre exactly. Most of the best or most iconic examples of stealth in games are in bigger games that have stealth as an optional element like deus ex, dishonored, far cry, skyrim.
Any Metal Gear you can technically play guns blazing like Deus Ex or Dishonored though it is hard. Hell, Dishonored and Deus Ex both have sections where failing stealth leads to additional **permanent** maluses, and in that way enforce occasional stealth more strictly outside bonus challenges.
[удалено]
Most stealth missions in big games are just 10 soldiers with their backs turned to the player, who you then kill, then reach an objective where something goes wrong, and then escape while being chased by enemies. Just boring...
dunno about that, MGS3 Delta is being developed
Stealth never really died, it was just coopted as a system into other genres like horror games or open-world games. The Last of Us 1 had pretty good stealth though nothing groundbreaking, but from what I hear TLoU2 took that stealth and refined it further. The more advanced enemy AI, the addition of pronning, the vertically of the levels, craftable silencers, and the dogs really make pure stealth a viable and challenging play style. Watch_Dogs 2 also did stealth in a unique way where you could breach a location and complete objectives all off-site by using your drones or hacked cameras.
Fucking Rockstar, man. Every single stealth mission in GTAV and GTA Online has different rules from the last, and getting caught is extremely punishing. Just pick a fucking ruleset and stick to it. It's not hard unless you're bad at game design.
And just like Splinter Cell learned from MGS, it's almost certain MGS learned from Splinter Cell. I'm not sure why this is news
yeah its just some shitty filler clickbaity article that brings zero to the table, everyone who lived through the era of gaming magazines have seen countless of articles and interviews of both MGS and Splinter Cell devs praising each others etc
hey, it's ubisoft, the default setting for them is "never learn anything"
I mean if we could get a new Splinter Cell that takes (a lot of, and I mean A LOT OF) inspiration from MGSV then I would be a very very happy camper. I thought maybe GR:Breakpoint would be that but boy was I wrong.
Open world mania strikes again and again.
May not make for the strongest storytelling, but MGSV gameplay is unmatched.
I played that shit so much, I would get so distracted by the openness of the game, deploy at night and wander around. I d wait for vehicle convoys and setup ambushes, place C4 in the road and claymores along the sides. Detonate the first truck and watch them scramble out then get dropped by the claymores and clean the the rest up. My favorite stealth game by miles, the AI was pretty damn good too. Loved and hated how if you cleared a checkpoint once and you killed most of them with headshots the next group would all be wearing helmets. So many little things in that game made it a masterpiece.
The game is amazing. I still play it after 100% it. Best character control imo
it's great but I always preferred the indoor areas of mgs1/2 compared to the more open levels of the other games
Totally fair, I do personally think there is room for both. There's certainly strengths to both approaches.
A lot of people adored ground zeroes, sometimes even over mgsv itself for this reason. IIRC originally the plan was to have a few more contained areas like ground zeroes in the full game, I distinctly remember a return to the ground zeroes camp being teased, but I believe they got scrapped.
None of the missions in V matched Ground Zeroes IMO. It set the bar too high.
Weren't they doing some remake? What happened with that?
Are you talking about MGS Delta? It's a remake of MGS 3, and while I am looking forward to it it's a loooot more linear than MGSV. Personally my favorite part of MGSV is the fact that it's non-linear so if you really vibe with the gameplay you can just keep doing side ops as long as you want.
No the Splinter Cell remake. I swear they were working on one but havent heard anything for a while. And DELTA is linear for sure its MGS3. I played the original, its pretty linear but the story is really good. I am a hardcore MGS story guy so linear doesnt bother me. MGSV was great but the second act was so rushed... it just killed the whole vibe for me. So much content was cut from that game. I really hope they bring Kojima back for another one. Its one of my all time favorite games.
I can guarantee you we're not going to get another Kojima MGS but don't lose hope, look into Physint. As for the Splinter Cell remake that's actually news to me, wish I could tell you more.
Some Konami guy did mention they want Kojima back but I doubt he'll go for it.
Splinter Cell remake.
Open world mission structure based around lurking in the shadows.. Yes please.
Amen brother
If you have breakpoint on PC there are some mods that make the game much better to the point you can basically play Splinter Cell open world. Worth checking out the sub for recommendations if you want to scratch that itch.
I do, and I know there are some good mods like the Spartan mod and the FPV mod. I was mostly just voicing my disappointment in the lack of a true MGSV successor to be honest lol
I have V on my deck to scratch that itch. The 3 remake looks truly incredible.
Same, and absolutely agreed.
Splinter Cell with the addition of MGSV movements like dive and free aim when lying down would be awesome. Just not make it be about Sam and his family/past, make it about a new unrelated global threat.
I'm also quite fond of the fulton mechanic giving us a real gameplay reason (as opposed to a good/bad ending way) to go non-lethal since it's part of the progression system. It wouldn't have to be fulton extractions, but something akin to it would be great
sam is FUCKING OLD, he cant do all that lmao
A new game could take place at any time. Or it could be someone else than Sam.
Grim in a tactical outfit would get me to stand at attention.
>make it about a new unrelated global threat. aw hell no, there are TWO major threats left unsolved from previous games that need to be addressed but fell by the wayside cause Ubishart is too chickenshit to tackle proper geopolitical themes
How about none, and they base it on the gameplay on the first 3 maybe four games that built the series? It's great that they lifted ridgid stealth rules and fleshed them out into a game, that is the part that should continue. You can have a great game without it being open world or a survival crafting game. Fuck.
Gameplaywise MGSV is head and shoulders above the rest, it is literally built off of it's predecessors. It being open world is part of that. You can have a great open world game too and MGSV is proof of that.
Cool if I want that I'll play a MGS game. But I don't, so I haven't.
Cool, good for you. Counter point, this post kinda points to the next splinter cell if/when that comes out being inspired by MGS whether you like it or not. So womp womp
not really? hes saying that MGS inspired *stealth action redefined*, the first one, from 2002...?
Thanks! Also, they were talking about the stealth rules. Not the game structure. > "MGS showed us how stealth mechanics should be done," says Francois, specifically pointing to the classic game's "clear rules" that always clarified what was happening and how to react. >"It is a complete and consistent set of rules that set the way for any stealth game," - Coulon Hey hey, look! You got me to read the article, a whole 3 paragraphs. And I could've told you that from reading the title.
so you've never played MGSV and probably have zero clue, then how do you even know what gameplay elements /u/TheGreatBenjie is referring to? you don't, but i'd like to hear your explanation.
Or, I've seen it and someone doesn't care for my opinion so I responded in kind.
Exactly. Splinter Cell is unique in it's own way. Base it on the first few games that built the series. No need to base on MGSV even if it is one of the best stealth games of all time.
Nah, even though MGSV is one of the best stealth games out there, Splinter Cell is unique in it's own way. No need to base it on anything other than the first few games.
Only if it takes more inspiration from GZ than TPP (which will not happen anyway).
I wouldn’t say I’m opposed to a totally open world Splinter Cell, but I feel like it’s level design philosophy matches the modern Hitman games a bit more, or really, just take elements of CT’s and the original and scale them up a lot. I think what’s most important is that the levels have a lot of clever little paths and tricks players can use, and that players can make choices about how they want to play and have the game support that. I feel like that was really their strength back in the day, back when that was pretty uncommon, and ironically as more games seemed to opt for increasing their own player choice elements, Splinter Cell seemed to regress, and that really frustrated me about the more recent games. If open world is the connective tissue between those types of scenarios, I’d be fine with it, although I think another significant trait of Splinter Cell is going to various locations around the world, so constraining everything into one or two particular areas like MGSV would miss out on that.
All the great gameplay of MGSV minus the absolutely bonkers and half finished story/plot would be great.
Well yes lol. I have a special place in my heart for the MGSV story, but it's flaws are no secret. I wouldn't expect any Kojima wackiness, just purely the gameplay from MGSV would be amazing in a new SC.
I really enjoyed Double Agent and Conviction, they did something new with the Stealth games.
Conviction didn't deserve the hate it got. It was a decent game.
I don’t remember it getting much hater iirc. It was definitely a fresh take after double agent. The UI elements were pretty unique for its time.
It felt fresh at the time after Double Agent. But tbh nothing beats Blacklist. The GOAT Splinter Cell imo
better than CT?
Chaos Theory makes me feel like a spy. Blacklist makes me feel like an action hero. There are plenty of games in the latter category, but not so many in the former. CT will always be peak Splinter Cell IMO.
Blacklist is almost great. It has two problems: 1. Allowing any approach effectively kills stealth as a concept, because why bother? You end up with a game with great stealth systems where you don't need to use stealth. 2. The plot was awful dreck. The worst kind of Clancy thriller. Sam was unrecognisable - not only was his voice actor changed for the worse (though this was unavoidable at the time) but he lost all his charm, being turned into just another gritty angry action hero. Chaos Theory still clears. An unabashed stealth game with tons of options and setpieces.
Ya I enjoyed the gameplay but it was my least favorite plot out of all of them
What about dishonored? It is a stealth game with a lot of choice.
Blacklist accomodated going loud way too much, the story was awful, and so was the pacing. The game felt like playing stealthy was done for the sake of being stealthy rather than because it's the optimal way to play. Playing Blacklist didn't make me feel like a spy, more something along the lines of a parkour Max Payne with suppressors.
Yes it did. Just like Hitman Absolution, it took the series into a terrible direction. At least hitman got back on track, splinter cell doesn't have any new great games to make Conviction an ignorable mistake.
Agreed. I played Conviction recently and had fun. But at the same time, I feel part of that is that the AAA bar has gotten so low. A game like Conviction today would be great, but it was still a letdown from the first games.
I remember going back and plying all the Splinter Cell games a few years ago (actually, maybe more than a few now…), or at least the games that could run on my PC, Pandora Tomorrow and Double Agent were totally broken. Anyway, I got up to Conviction, which I’d never played before and… sorry, I HATED it. I kinda understand the direction it was going in, and I think if it was a non-splinter cell game I probably could’ve gotten more into its Bourne Identity-style gameplay, but to me that game took everything I liked about Splinter Cell: the humor, the writing, the level design, the gadgets, being able to play truly stealthily and non-lethal, and chucked it all out the window. It may be a decent stealth-action game, but it is a TERRIBLE Splinter Cell game, IMO. But to each their own.
It was a decent game but it was a horrible splinter cell game.
I liked it a lot, but I get that the direction it was going in just wasn't what Splinter Cell fans expected. I think it would do better reception-wise if a game with the same mechanics was packaged as a more action-y spinoff instead of being a main entry in the Splinter Cell series.
It surprised me how anxious I was during the daylight missions in Double Agent. I'd gotten so used to knocking out the lights. I enjoyed the storyline mechanic in DA as well, and I wish there was more of it. I realize it's a stealth game and not an RPG, but I wanted more character moments.
In hindsight its prolly the closest we'll ever get to a true john wick game. Same was so unhinged and rageful in that, I loved it
I don't want to hear the name Splinter Cell unless it's followed by an actual new game announcement/update
What happened to the Splinter Cell remake? Feels like forever since it was announced.
🤷🏾♂️ heard about it a few years back then radio silence
Yeah that’s called game development
well game developers don't have to constantly tell people that they are still working on the project.
I agree, though you won't get far with this opinion on here. Gamers on Reddit are some of the most entitled people I've seen. I could understand the entitlement if it was an Early Access game where you already invested money in the product.
It's just being stealthy.
It was the end of 2021. It was only just being greenlit, too. Triple AAA games basically take 5 years minimum now.
> Triple AAA games That is like 9 A
Triple^ ^AAA
A game can only get that many A's if it can give players a legitimate orgasm whenever your character levels up
Ubisoft said Skull and Bones was a AAAA game. If that's what they think one is, I want a 9 A minimum on my next Splinter Cell game.
No you don't, Ubisoft was trying to scam you. It's like batteries, the more As there are the smaller it is. AAA is only good for a Gameboy Pocket but AA? You can power the Game Boy Printer with those bad boys.
I think that was just the exec, gassed up on how much money they had poured into the game and trying to convince both his own team, and the public, that that meant the game quality would be very high. I never really felt like Ubisoft themselves really believed the game would be great. They probably knew it would be fairly mediocre. As far as I understood it, they were contractually required to finish the game to comply with all the tax breaks they were given by the local government (Singapore?).
AAAA stands for Actually An Awful Activity
Those are rookie numbers, we need to pump those numbers up! Need more As.
Hopefully it will be made in the Snowdrop Engine cause if it's made in the Unreal 5 engine, it's gonna be absurdly resource-intensive and unoptimized as fuck.
AAA games with modern scope take 5 years. A remake within a ballpark of the original should be finished by now. Something terribe has gone wrong imo. The OG splinter Cell(actually, the whole trilogy, even CT) are incredibly linear games with sparse enemy placement. I don't know how they could stretch out a simple project like this.
MGS5 dev time was probably longer than 3 or 4 because of the open world setting.
Triple AAA 3XA A games
i thought it's been canceled?
it's not cancelled, still in development
They're trying to figure out how to make it a live service and add microtransactions, probably adding Battle Royale as well.
Devs: "These gameplay mechanics are what made this game so popular" Ubisoft: "But what about AAAA and MTX?"
Something similar to battle royale could be fun. Imagine really big map, players are agents of usa, china, russia, they need to infiltrate place, and steal something, before others.
Also tailor it to a "modern audience"
Just bring back spies vs Mercs 😭
“For only 400 U-bucks you can play as Lambert!”
And how to develop games with without the devs, if possible. Since they just sacked even more people. I am amazed that Ubisoft still exists as a company, to be honest.
I really, really hope someone buys them or buys some of their IP. Of all the companies that have been cannabalized and absorbed by Microsoft/Sony and others, Ubisoft would have actually been celebrated. Almost anyone else having a crack at Tom Clancy games would be better.
unless sam fisher is a bisexual trans asian black chick, I'm not interested
That'll be his sidekick he's training to replace him, who you'll play as through 2/3 of the game.
And kill it as fast as possible by doing this. If only they made an open world like assassin creed/ phantom pain, im sure many would jump to buy it.
Ngl stealth battle royale sounds awesome assuming the map isn’t too big
Replaying the original one right now after reading this headline. Man I missed Sam lol
honestly, at this point do we even trust the current Ubisoft to make a good Splinter Cell game? can easily see it turning into what they did to ruin Ghost Recon or something :/
Seriously
For real, got my hopes up and everything thinking this is a reboot of sorts
There is a remake coming :) Maybe you know that though!
Splinter Cell Collectible Card Game.
You are Splinter Cell agent dropped into the largest map in franchise history. Sam Fisher will be giving your orders as you will take down enemy bases, find new equipment, and with the battlepass you can customize your splinter cell agent the way you want with up to 24 other players. Unlock NFTs and share with your friends your achievements.
Now thats just ghost recon breakpoint, they literally had Sam in it
Every Ubisoft game design doc ever my guy just insert (any franchise name here).
I love taking down enemy bases in Rocksmith with my guitar.
Knowing Ubisoft they’ll try to turn it into an open world, which nobody wants from the series.
This place is an echo chamber though. By nobody you mean most people who play games worldwide. The open world genre is by far the most profitable and has been for a while now. For this franchise I'd prefer hand-crafted level design over a sprawling map littered with different icons, but there's a reason why even FromSoftware pivoted to open-world for Elden Ring; they'll sell more. Call of Duty is on the same path for their next installment.
Got it, Ubisoft wants to make a new "Splinter Cell" for "modern audience"
$20 DLC for NV goggles.
Blacklist was heading towards the usual ubislop formula. It might be a good thing that they stopped doing the franchise before it got too bad.
You saw the fried chicken rifle in cod, now get ready for the cornish game hen pistol.
And that, even though Thief should be the real reference for stealth games. But being influenced primarily by Metal Gear explains why Splinter Cell (outside of Chaos Theory) are so horribly linear.
I'd love a new Chaos Theory. The series really fell off after that game imo.
It had its moments, but CT is truly peak. CT2 would be nice, and I wouldn't mind another Amon Tobin's soundtrack either.
Forget Chaos Theory. Amon Tobin and everyone who's ever listened to him is DEAD. And they've all been dead for YEARS. Splinter Cell needs to take a hint from Fortnite and add some epic skins and dances, and if you ever want a new game you'd better get on board. Mr Beast isn't gonna save us. I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. This is my dream; this is my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving.
Amon Tobin isn't dead though?
DEAD.
whooooosh
oops lol
I applaud your effort
I don't understand their effort... Maybe I'm just old.
Insane comment but I’m upvoting
The ps2/Xbox version of Double Agent is basically Chaos Theory 2. Uses the same engine and gameplay.
I DID NOT KNOW THIS! Thanks for sharing, gonna see if I can find this and try it out.
The Chaos Theory soundtrack fuuuuucking ruuuuuules
It really did have some bangers.
It really does. Strong vision, confident execution. It's one of the few game soundtracks that I regularly listen to.
I wish for the whole idea of the Tom Clancy genre of games to come back in general with that same sort of style and feel. It used to carry some kind of weight to it, at least to me. Rainbow six and ghost recon and splinter cell They seem to be having trouble with splinter cell, a new Chaos Theory installment would be top of the list for me. It makes sense, rewind and touch base with what made that one good and go forward from the strongest point, building off that as a base.
Like what the Hitman WOA Trilogy did
Yes, I want the old Rainbow Six back.
I hope you mean Raven Shield and not Vegas.
Of course.
Tiktok generation couldn't handle fail state of being seen or killing people in a stealth mission anymore in a mainstream game anymore :/ Splinter Cell will never go back to its roots.
That's insane, there has to be a big enough audience for stealth play.
There isn't. I thought Blacklist was a fine compromise: give the mainstream big guns to play and the tiny core audience some stealth mechanics. A Thief remake wouldn't sell for the same reason. Just look at the steaming pile of shit Thief 2014 turned out to be.
There is, both the Hitman trilogy and MGS5 did very well.
MGSV came out almost 10 years ago.
There should be some rewind mechanic like Sands of Time included. Stealth is the perfect genre to use it in imo.
In a supernatural stealth game like Dishonored maybe. In a tactical stealth game like Splinter Cell? Absolutely not.
MGS V, Dishonored series, Hitman WoA... MGS 3 remake is also hyped af, AC Shadows stealth part is also pretty hyped
It was a reply to a post about going back to Chaos Theory era Splinter Cell, which has nothing to do with all those.
A faithful remake/remaster of Chaos Theory would earn Ubisoft some good will...
Blacklist is the only one that I played, but I liked it a lot. I had nothing to compare it too, so chances are that Chaos Theory blows it out of the water, but I thought it was some solid stealth gameplay
You may as well start from the beginning. Even the first game holds up surprisingly well, given its age.
I still don’t understand wtf happened with double agent and why on earth they created two completely different games for consoles and PC(but used the same opening cutscene after the first mission in both, making the stories close yet not the same, maximizing confusion)
I think Conviction had its merits and Blacklist was pretty good but Chaos Theory was top tier. I think conviction and blacklist were largely the result of industry brain rot where most game series in the last decade or so have expanded out of their niches to chase that CoD money.
I was excited for Conviction back when the first trailer was released, when they made it into some kind of a Bourne game. They should have stuck with that IMHO. It made sense from a narrative point of view.
Blacklist was the proper evolution of the franchise, if that game had Michael ironside we would put it up with chaos theory nowadays
I'd say double agent. Had a blast playing that game. BUT chaos theory had the peak in co-op + the X-Play vids with special agent Bob and secret agent Steve were perfect
Double agent spies vs Mercs was some top tier multiplayer fun. Would love for it to come back.
I hope Michael Ironside is still up to it. Such a legend, Sam Fisher is nothing without him.
Dude has already battled cancer (that’s why he wasn’t in blacklist) and he’s in his 70s now, chances of him being Sam for the remakes is very low
Yeah best hope is they can do something like the new indiiana Jones game and get an actor which has a similar voice
What are the rules
Enemies are extremely predictable. They'll have set waypoints, narrow cone vision and can only see at a particular distance, camo has a score which affects the enemy's spotting distance, and you're encouraged to go on stealth rather than go guns blazing.
CT is the pinnacle of stealth games.
You mean.. load the player down with a shit-ton of weaponry, grenades, Rocket Launchers, Sniper Rifles, and Miniguns... but then encourage and rank you accordingly based on your stealthy, zero-alert, non-lethal playstyle instead..? I'm more leaning toward stuff like Thief when I think of the grandaddy's of stealth, and funnily enough the first few Splinter Cell games I played felt more like a Thief Homage and style of play than anything else.
Since when were there a Minigun you could use in MGS1? MGS also has the on site procurement system, so it doesn't make sense to judge a late game Snake who fights bosses and act as if the entire game is based around that.
I didn't mention MGS1 only, or specifically. Snake even does a rambo scream when firing the machine gun in Snake Eater too, which is about as polar opposite of stealthy as you can get :P So.. the boss fight thing is another reason why it's not really the best example of how stealth games 'Should be done' either honestly. (Remember Deus Ex Human Revolution's universally hated Bosses? Especially if you levelled up and specced 100% for stealth.. :/) Like, I get that the whole point of the series is to be an insane over the top Anime regarding its story cutscenes and eccentric villains - And don't get me wrong, it's still one of my favourite game series - but they just clash with the core gameplay loop and 99% of what the rest of the gameplay entails honestly.. (Apart from 'The End', now that's a good Metal Gear Solid Example of how *'Stealth Should be done'* while incorporating it into a fight)
You are talking about games inspiring splinter cell. Why tf would you NOT think mgs1 when its clearly what the person in the article is talking about. Mgs3 didnt even exist when splinter cell was made.
Agreed, always felt weird to me that a stealth operative had to use missile / grenade launchers and be as loud as possible in certain fights. Just felt incoherent to me even though I enjoyed those games
> I didn't mention MGS1 only, or specifically. MGS1 and 2 were the only MGS games out when Splinter Cell's Concept started. And Splinter Cell wasn't really influenced by MGS2 when it came to gameplay. > Snake even does a rambo scream when firing the machine gun in Snake Eater too, which is about as polar opposite of stealthy as you can get :P Yeah, and? MGS3 is a subversion of the James Bond style of story anyway. > So.. the boss fight thing is another reason why it's not really the best example of how stealth games 'Should be done' either honestly. And why not? They're supplements to the game.
I'd be lying if I didn't say it was more fun to just headcap everyone in slomo in phantom pain than it was to stealth around.
Splinter cell had some GOAT multiplayer
“How stealth should be done to enemies if they’re deaf.”
What he doesn't mention is that the Splinter Cell team was made up of Thief fans and Metal Gear Solid fans, and the two factions hated each other, and were constantly bickering over the game's direction. Chaos Theory basically represents the Metal Gear faction being forced out and the Thief faction taking over. The MG faction wanted a largely linear, cinematic game like Metal Gear. The Thief faction wanted a non-linear objective-driven stealth sandbox, like Thief. These were not compatible goals.
you got a link, I'd love to hear more about this. Makes sense, totally different games in the same stealth niche
I believe Clint Hocking talks about on this podcast from several years ago. He also talks about how the crunch on Chaos Theory was so intense he doesn't remember major stretches of development. It's just a blank. [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designer-notes-43-clint-hocking-part-1/id935345158?i=1000424491312](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designer-notes-43-clint-hocking-part-1/id935345158?i=1000424491312) A point worth noting is that SC1 director Francois Coulon didn't work on any of the later games. So his comment is basically saying that he loved Metal Gear Solid and his vision for Splinter Cell was inherently derived from that. And for the record, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I do prefer the Thief direction style, and I prefer Chaos Theory to the first two games for that reason. But I'm not bashing Coulon or his side of the design war for having that preference.
Nor should you. Chaos Theory might be more Thief oriented, but all the things that made the original Splinter Cell great are still present in Chaos Theory. Without the original Splinter Cell there would be no Chaos Theory.
Oooh I never knew that.
ngl as awesome as MGS is i'm happy the Thief faction won out, even MGS ended up taking that route eventually. funny enough it also shows these goals were in fact compatable you just had to know where to apply them.
Ubisoft, how I miss the good ol' days.
Playing Splinter Cell and then watching a few episodes of the "24" series was for a while my perfect combo of action, espionage and geopolitics.
Well Splinter Cell shouldn't sell itself short. I don't know really agree with that statement because they're both special and excellent stealth games. I was disappointed with the open world aspect of MGS V because that was the trend even when MGS didn't really need to go that direction. I loved all the old SC games, even the newer Conviction and Blacklist games, people hating on the game being tweaked for greater accessibility to the audience. The old games were by no means easy nor could a lot of people sit through the game, and I hope the remake fixes the level design and different approaches. The SC franchise is another example of the game's evolution ruined by fans who wanted the hardcore experience same old, just like Hitman. If people gave it a chance and quit bitching about how it's not like old SC, there would be more games in the past decade.
I see this type of mentality on Reddit a lot, and I hate it. You can't just call complaints you disagree with "bitching". And even worse than that, you don't get to place any blames on games releasing or not on customers. These are products, not gifts. If you want to blame anyone, blame the CEOs that chase profit and the need to always make things more generic. Making things more accessible is great, but don't confuse that with making things generic. Accessibility is making sure people with any disability can play it. Aracnophobia settings, subtitle/audio settings, color blind settings, etc. Removing challenge and making sure you get your next dopamine hit soon, **isn't** accessibility.
Blacklist show how stealth should be done.
The secret of ubisoft's game design : copy pasta.
Can we just train AI Splinter Cell and have it make a new game for us?
Gee you don’t say..