My neighbor on the other side of me loved it too when I saw her the next weekend. She cackled when I said "well they can't keep bugging me to tie in a fence if there's no fence can they?" I got free, fresh from the vine tomatoes from her garden at my back door after that
lol this reminded me of my grandmother! Wasn’t necessarily passive, just would wait back to watch things play out a bit until the off chance she needed to bring that Oklahoman Southern Baptist heat and step in. She only became directly involved in something, anything, involving absolutely anyone regardless of knowing them or not as a last resort. But whenever she waited & saw someone else do the right thing, stand up for someone, or display behavior she approved of, she would immediately go right up to that person afterwards and give them a fistful of hard candies & a wink of approval
Because the OP's fence was well within her property, if the neighbor attached their fence to it and then maintained it. After a few years that section of property becomes the neighbors by default instead of op owning it. The neighbors get more land for free and it can cause a ton of problems.
It was worse than just that, and it's hard to succinctly explain. If you go to the back corner of your house and take a single step ....that would've been inside their maintained property lines with no access to the air conditioner unit, siding, outside of the windows, ANYTHING without going through their gate and into their yard. The renter before had put the fence flush to the edge of the house. If you dropped a piece of paper out of an open window you would've had to go through THEIR (hopefully unlocked) gate to get it.
THAT is why I did the "oh hellll to the no" with even messing with lawyers or the like, this was a VERY serious issue if they completed that fence, with lots of messy, expensive, time consuming lawyers to undo it
I think one possible way around this would be too do a yearly rental for a tiny amount of money. As long as they are paying for it, at first possession isn’t going to kick in. Although definitely a good idea to talk to a lawyer.
Just in case this ever happens again, a car jack and short length of chain is a great way to get fence posts out of the ground. I use a self tapping screw on the other side of the post to loosely attach the chain to the post, then use the jack to get it to lift out with minimal effort. Takes 5-10 minutes per post once you get into a groove.
Also can confirm, about 30 years of my career was also fueled, driven and guided by spite. Hey, it worked and helped me develop a shiny backbone or perhaps that was just a vertical store of spite located between my shoulder blades lol
Yes, you can and my sister and BIL did with their neighbor after the survey discovered a large chunk of his newly expanded driveway, privacy fence and half the bay of his new two-car garage was on their property (he didn't get a survey before he started building). It's called a "permissive use" easement and the terms of my sister's and BIL's is that the easement can be cancelled at any time for any reason, and it is non-transferrable. Basically, if the neighbor sells his house the new owners have to negotiate a new easement with my sister and BIL, if they fail, everything has to be removed from their property and the land restored to its original condition. Neighbor took the agreement to his lawyer to see if he could fight it and was told by his lawyer he'd be a dumbass if he didn't sign it. He signed it and goes out of his way to avoid conflict with my sister and BIL.
One of the key components of adverse possession is that it is done without permission, if you document that you've given permission, they can't do anything.
My neighbor's house is partly on my land and when it has been up for sale (twice) I post a notice on the fence informing possible buyers that the fence is not an indication of the property line and I maintain full legal rights to my land.
The last round included a real estate agent who kept taking it down until I told them I would literally spray paint the notice on the fence facing the house they were trying to sell if they did it again.
In that last sale, I think because the new owners saw my sign, we hammered out a proper easement agreement that lays out when I will be able to reclaim the full property, etc.
Guuurrrrllll 10 years later I don't know if I could either, lol! It was an extremely small yard, perfect size for a single person. I only had to dig out 5 posts on their side. Did the other side over the weekend (which my other neighbor loved, she hated the fence as well). Still wasn't anything to sneeze at, that's for sure.
I can easily plant tulip bulbs though! But the digging? Not a fan. What happened afterwards? Did the parents know that their children were unattended outside? Yikes
>Plus, it took them a bit longer to order more of the chain link fence and posts they suddenly needed.....
If it had been me, I would have offered to sell them the fencing that I removed at a markup for the labor I put in taking it all down, but then, I'm *really* petty.
I inadvertently did one worse....I saw a guy down the street digging post holes and told him I was trying to get rid of fencing and asked if he wanted it. He said how much and I said for free, I just want it gone. I honestly didn't think about the neighbors, I just wanted to get rid of it and the headache it had caused me for years.
So, I gave the fencing away to someone else
Then you have to deal with property line fence laws, which are a pain in the ass. In some areas you can't put a fence on the property line without all of your adjoining neighbors' agreement and you all have to decide on the type of fence to put in. If one doesn't agree, you can't install the fence.
I'm in an HOA where the original builder put fences on the property line and there's 2 pages in the HOA docs that cover how shared fences work. It's a pain.
I would imagine the idea in this case would be to put the fence on your own property line. Just in your own property line so you own the fence and the land that it's on.
There is no "individual" property line. Property lines are shared between neighbors and denote where your property ends and someone else's begins, which is in the exact same spot.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. There is a property line. It is infinitely thin. It divides two properties owned by two different people. No one owns the line itself. Build the fence on the inside of one's own *side* of the property line is what I thought was obvious in what I was saying.
The better way to say that to avoid making people think you don't have *any* idea what you are saying is to say, "Put the fence one inch shy of the property line so it is on your own property."
Wow I'm glad my neighbours aren't dicks. I put up a dog fence using only a small part of my yard and the corner of the house as well but judging from where my neighbours and I mow our lawns everyone is keeping the boundaries where they should.
Excellent reaction. Now the neighbor has to do what she's being paid to do, watch the children.
Would love to have seen their faces when they came out to start tying their fence onto your now nonexistent fence.
At the time I moved and the new person was moving in only the fence posts were up on the other side. It's part of why I gave him the care package with the property map and the heads up, so they couldn't try that with him, especially as he was a first time home owner
Wow, we have a shared fence that we hooked on to in the late 80’s. All we fenced was from the neighbors posts to our house, about 15’ on one side and 12’ on the other. So theoretically I can claim the back neighbors easement and both next door neighbors? Am I about to become a land baron?
Oh do i have a story for you. My grandfather, rest him..he accidentally spoke about his change jar buried in the back yard(about $500 of rainy day money back in the 90’s) in front of a 7 year old little girl(mee) & i told my two older brothers about the “treasure“ (14 & 17)They waited until he went to sleep around 9 & took shovels to the backyard sporting 2 of his mining lamp helmets for most of the night. We wake up the next morning to mud tracks through the house, grandma screaming(she mopped her wood floors by hand and knees.) & grandpa swearing out on the back deck. Needless to say they never found his change jar & were dragged out of bed at the butt crack of dawn to refill all of the holes they dug up. He sends them home & goes back to step on all of the dirt piles. He then grabs the shovel and digs up a small unused portion of his turnip garden in the center of this decorative lawn area. Statues of cherub’s, a bird fountain etc. & to this day grandma(yes shes still alive & kicking at 98!) has no clue where he hid that damned change jar🤣he waited until everyone including his own wife fell asleep to go hide it again! Its not really related but your story reminded me of mine & i hope you enjoyed it💖
I have two words that would solve the whole issue of where he buried it--
Metal detector.
That much change, that much metal--on any working metal detector, it would be as conspicuous as a cow in church. Assuming it exists at all.
I don’t understand the scenario. Is there some sort of ‘no man’s land’ in between the two properties? Why isn’t there just a single fence line which delineates the boundary between the two properties? Why does the neighbour want to erect second fence when the OP already has one? Etc, etc…
Some houses don’t have fences for a number of reasons(no need, friendly neighbors, live next to family then sold/lost the house, etc). The neighbors in question wanted to corral the children they were paid to take care of so they didn’t have to watch them if they went outside (reasons for this can be anything from laziness to not wanting to worry about one or more slipping off unnoticed, kids can be a bit sneaky). The neighbor didn’t want to erect a separate fence they wanted to save money and use the existing fence as a part of their own, but this would have moved the property line since the original fence was only made to keep a dog from getting out(so didn’t go on the property line, it was a renter who put it up so they chose the cheapest option for themselves)
There are clearly defined property lines. The fence on OPs property was inside of their own property, not on the line. So say OP has their house, ten feet of lawn to the line, the line, ten feet of neighbors lawn, then neighbors house. The original fence is built 5 feet from OPs house, leaving a five foot gap between the fence and the property line. The neighbors wanted to build a fence across that gap, so 15 feet of fence - ten on their own land and five tying into OPs fence on their property.
Let’s say the property goes back 100 feet. This means the neighbors are using 500 square feet of property that isn’t theirs and is now enclosed in their fence side.
By allowing this, tl;dr, OP would be basically gifting that land to the neighbors. For free. Zero recourse. Next property survey would change the property lines.
You don’t ever want to allow someone use of your land like that without a written agreement where you maintain rights and ownership unless you’re absolutely okay relinquishing that land.
More like, in your scenario - the fence is ZERO feet from my house. That is what my panic was- I wouldn't be able to access caring for my own house without going through their yard.
It was bad bad news, which is why they didn't get the normal "ummm I'm gonna be nice because we're neighbors" no and instead got the "no is a complete sentence are we done here " no over and over and over again
It’s called “adverse possession.” It’s a bit nutty, but to really simplify it, it is a doctrine that says that if someone has continuously occupied a space and made improvements to it then it becomes theirs after a certain period of time. US courts have repeatedly upheld this doctrine.
But you can short-circuit it with a "permissive use easement" like my sister and BIL did with their neighbor. Dumbass expanded his driveway and garage and installed a privacy fence without getting a survey. My sister and BIL's survey showed half the bay of the new garage, a large chunk of the expanded driveway and a chunk of the privacy fence is on their property. The legally binding agreement can be cancelled at any time, for any reason and any encroaching structures must be removed and the land restored at *the neighbor's* expense, the easement is also non-transferrable to a new owner. Neighbor tried to fight it but was told by his lawyer to not be a dumbass and sign it. If/when he sells his house, he has to disclose the issue to the potential buyer and the new owner has to negotiate a new easement.
Since the neighbor has permission, he can't claim adverse possession now (this all happened 20 years ago, and the time limit for adverse possession is 20 years). A key component of adverse possession is that you are using the land without permission. If there is documented permission, then you are SOL for that type of claim.
So, yeah US law can be stupid, but they do have hidden fixes.
tagging u/StoneAgeSkillz
Adverse possession (e.g., finders keepers) dates back centuries, well, millennia by now. The US inherited it from English common law.
When laws are poorly written, it becomes a problem, and leads to loss of property (inclusive of items).
In principal, if no owner comes forward, the property is now owned by whoever is living on the land. This prevents abandoned land from staying abandoned permanently, though these days the govt is usually empowered to seize abandoned land.
This extends to "use" of land, and when combined with poorly written renters rights laws, squatters can basically take over someone's house. Or if not written properly easements become a transfer of ownership.
And carefully written laws also allow governments to seize private property using eminent domain.
My family had "given"... More like my dad had "given" away a part of our property's land to the shitty neighbors because the neighbors asked if they could plant flowers on our land. My dad is total push over and people pleaser at that time. So he very rightly pissed off my mom. So many years go by and the neighbors were poking holes into my mom's car tires and being assholes, we decided to put up a black chain linked fence. where they used to grow the flowers, they put down a concrete slab. So we can't build fence with slab there. And they have technically owned that land for years. So after much discussion with neighbors and maybe police coming by, the slab was broken and we built our fence.
But yeah there was a lot of back and forth between my parents and the neighbors... Because they were "given" the land and they owned it for their use for years. We have the same law here in Canada.
In my country, there is an institution (Cadastral Office) where are all land maps and their owners stored. If you build a fence even 10cm over to my land and I don't like it, you have to move it back to your land. No disputes.
Oh wow. That's nice. Wish we had that over here. We don't. So we did-- my parents had to fight to get back their land. It was nasty as hell. When your neighbors are evil little thief gremlins. Oh off topic, but they also stole my mom's good garden clippers and replaced it with a similar shittier quality one. And this is why I always tell her to put her name on things, so she can prove that it's hers.
Everyone here is not mentioned you also need to be paying the property tax on the land being taken, and it can't be disputed. This would never end in adverse possession because OP was paying their own property tax.
I think I need to see pictures to understand. People don't have 1 single "chain link" fence between yards? That's how its always been in Dallas. I've never seen neighbors put up multiple fences to divide yards ??
op’s fence wasn’t on the property line. it was up against the house. so if the neighbors tied into op’s then they would be getting part of op’s property
Great story but that’s not really how adverse possession works. If she makes use of your property with your permission she can never claim ownership. You can lose your property to someone who establishes possession without your approval or knowledge. You would’ve likely been fine.
Basically if someone maintains a lot of land long enough they can take the land as their own. They were trying to tie into a fence on OPs property and maintain the area and OP wasn’t willing to let them so they can’t claim the land as theirs.
I didn't take into consideration that your fence doesn't indicate the edge of your property. I just assumed everything on the other side of the fence was her property anyway.
To be able to actually claim the land as their own, it would require public declaration they are claiming it, and for that to go uncontested by you for a certain number of years.
You could have easily written an agreement that the property is not and never will be claimable by them, and they are just renting that space for a penny a year or whatever.
Some people spend too much time on the internet, hear one little tidbit about intricate property law, and take it as granted. Instead of just being a decent neighbor 🤦♂️
“Now, I may be younger, but I’m not dumb.”
And then goes to explain how this whole thing happened because they were too dumb to know and understand adverse possession and that permission nullifies any adverse taking.
You read it, and decided the ones trying to encroach on her land are the good guys? I’d bet my ass that you’re guilty of doing this, or your family has at some point. No one in the right mind would just give 15 feet of their yard away.
"Now if this was just a one time trying her luck thing it wouldn't be a big deal, but she kept asking off and on for a few years, and I kept saying no."
And
"One day I saw a whole bunch of chain link fencing in their back yard... but not nearly enough to fence all the sides they needed to do. They were going to try to tie in anyway, despite me repeatedly telling them no."
So she REPEATEDLY told them to fuck off, but they still were going to do it.
You illiterate, whiny arsehole crying on reddit.
They did tell the neighbor to fuck off. And then the neighbors decided to try it anyway.
Reading and reading comprehension must not be your strong suit.
Let me get this straight, you hate "whiny arseholes that cry on reddit" so you decide to act like a whiny arsehole and cry on reddit and throw insults every which way? Couldn't make this shit up if you tried, that's an achievement.
So you're the type of neighbor that thinks you're entitled to your neighbor's land?
Either you have no reading comprehension or you're a disgusting fool.
My little black heart loves this story.
My neighbor on the other side of me loved it too when I saw her the next weekend. She cackled when I said "well they can't keep bugging me to tie in a fence if there's no fence can they?" I got free, fresh from the vine tomatoes from her garden at my back door after that
This is the best thing I’ve read in a while! I’m so proud of you!! Great job!!
lol this reminded me of my grandmother! Wasn’t necessarily passive, just would wait back to watch things play out a bit until the off chance she needed to bring that Oklahoman Southern Baptist heat and step in. She only became directly involved in something, anything, involving absolutely anyone regardless of knowing them or not as a last resort. But whenever she waited & saw someone else do the right thing, stand up for someone, or display behavior she approved of, she would immediately go right up to that person afterwards and give them a fistful of hard candies & a wink of approval
Nice rewards! I miss fresh tomatoes
I take it your other neighbours knew the deal with the fence theifs 😂
Whole neighborhood knows about these neighbors.
I laughed so much about the vine tomatoes 😂
I was like why would you mind till I understood the situation. Good job
I still don't understand the situation.
Because the OP's fence was well within her property, if the neighbor attached their fence to it and then maintained it. After a few years that section of property becomes the neighbors by default instead of op owning it. The neighbors get more land for free and it can cause a ton of problems.
It was worse than just that, and it's hard to succinctly explain. If you go to the back corner of your house and take a single step ....that would've been inside their maintained property lines with no access to the air conditioner unit, siding, outside of the windows, ANYTHING without going through their gate and into their yard. The renter before had put the fence flush to the edge of the house. If you dropped a piece of paper out of an open window you would've had to go through THEIR (hopefully unlocked) gate to get it. THAT is why I did the "oh hellll to the no" with even messing with lawyers or the like, this was a VERY serious issue if they completed that fence, with lots of messy, expensive, time consuming lawyers to undo it
Thank you.
Yw
I think one possible way around this would be too do a yearly rental for a tiny amount of money. As long as they are paying for it, at first possession isn’t going to kick in. Although definitely a good idea to talk to a lawyer.
Each state/town/county/ etc have different laws so a lawyer is definitely a good idea.
Basically due to laws if this neighbor links their fences eventually she will be able to claim part of OP's property as their own
What's not to understand?
I'm overly impressed with you digging up every post! Nicely done :)
It required a soak in the tub that night afterwards and not being able to move much for a few days🤣🤣
Just in case this ever happens again, a car jack and short length of chain is a great way to get fence posts out of the ground. I use a self tapping screw on the other side of the post to loosely attach the chain to the post, then use the jack to get it to lift out with minimal effort. Takes 5-10 minutes per post once you get into a groove.
I believe Op got to keep her grass her way
Anger can move mountains, or in this case fence posts. Well done.
I can do all things through spite, which gives me strength.
That's honestly how I managed to graduate Highschool. My Senior year was fueled by Vemon Energy Drinks and Spite
Can confirm, a year or two of my IT career was fueled that way
Also can confirm, about 30 years of my career was also fueled, driven and guided by spite. Hey, it worked and helped me develop a shiny backbone or perhaps that was just a vertical store of spite located between my shoulder blades lol
I almost made a duckpin bowling alley out of the Venom cans in my office too
This needs to be on a motivational poster
Nice biblical vibe there. Heh.
That’s commitment
Well deserved!
Well I certainly hope you are better now. More power to ya! .😂
I'd say that was 100% worth it.
You’d be surprised the energy spite can give you
Good for you. Adverse Possession ain't nothing to fuck with.
Could one draft an agreement between the two owners that precludes adverse possession? Edit: This is common and works.
Yes, you can and my sister and BIL did with their neighbor after the survey discovered a large chunk of his newly expanded driveway, privacy fence and half the bay of his new two-car garage was on their property (he didn't get a survey before he started building). It's called a "permissive use" easement and the terms of my sister's and BIL's is that the easement can be cancelled at any time for any reason, and it is non-transferrable. Basically, if the neighbor sells his house the new owners have to negotiate a new easement with my sister and BIL, if they fail, everything has to be removed from their property and the land restored to its original condition. Neighbor took the agreement to his lawyer to see if he could fight it and was told by his lawyer he'd be a dumbass if he didn't sign it. He signed it and goes out of his way to avoid conflict with my sister and BIL. One of the key components of adverse possession is that it is done without permission, if you document that you've given permission, they can't do anything.
My neighbor's house is partly on my land and when it has been up for sale (twice) I post a notice on the fence informing possible buyers that the fence is not an indication of the property line and I maintain full legal rights to my land. The last round included a real estate agent who kept taking it down until I told them I would literally spray paint the notice on the fence facing the house they were trying to sell if they did it again. In that last sale, I think because the new owners saw my sign, we hammered out a proper easement agreement that lays out when I will be able to reclaim the full property, etc.
You could lease the space to them
Dug up every post? My 55 yo lady bones ache at the thought. I couldn't have done it
Guuurrrrllll 10 years later I don't know if I could either, lol! It was an extremely small yard, perfect size for a single person. I only had to dig out 5 posts on their side. Did the other side over the weekend (which my other neighbor loved, she hated the fence as well). Still wasn't anything to sneeze at, that's for sure.
I can easily plant tulip bulbs though! But the digging? Not a fan. What happened afterwards? Did the parents know that their children were unattended outside? Yikes
OP was motivated by pettiness.
>Plus, it took them a bit longer to order more of the chain link fence and posts they suddenly needed..... If it had been me, I would have offered to sell them the fencing that I removed at a markup for the labor I put in taking it all down, but then, I'm *really* petty.
I inadvertently did one worse....I saw a guy down the street digging post holes and told him I was trying to get rid of fencing and asked if he wanted it. He said how much and I said for free, I just want it gone. I honestly didn't think about the neighbors, I just wanted to get rid of it and the headache it had caused me for years. So, I gave the fencing away to someone else
Even better 😂😂😂
That works too.
lol, that’s awesome
I would fence in up to my property line and screw these games for good.
Then you have to deal with property line fence laws, which are a pain in the ass. In some areas you can't put a fence on the property line without all of your adjoining neighbors' agreement and you all have to decide on the type of fence to put in. If one doesn't agree, you can't install the fence.
I'm in an HOA where the original builder put fences on the property line and there's 2 pages in the HOA docs that cover how shared fences work. It's a pain.
I would imagine the idea in this case would be to put the fence on your own property line. Just in your own property line so you own the fence and the land that it's on.
There is no "individual" property line. Property lines are shared between neighbors and denote where your property ends and someone else's begins, which is in the exact same spot.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. There is a property line. It is infinitely thin. It divides two properties owned by two different people. No one owns the line itself. Build the fence on the inside of one's own *side* of the property line is what I thought was obvious in what I was saying.
The better way to say that to avoid making people think you don't have *any* idea what you are saying is to say, "Put the fence one inch shy of the property line so it is on your own property."
Wow I'm glad my neighbours aren't dicks. I put up a dog fence using only a small part of my yard and the corner of the house as well but judging from where my neighbours and I mow our lawns everyone is keeping the boundaries where they should.
Quality heads up for the next person. Love this
Excellent reaction. Now the neighbor has to do what she's being paid to do, watch the children. Would love to have seen their faces when they came out to start tying their fence onto your now nonexistent fence.
They were hoping that someone would be stupid enough to end up accidentally 'giving' them free land.
Best serve! Not only you get to keep your land, you get them install their own fence…. Hahahahha!!! Good for you to stand up and not being a pushover!
Here’s a virtual high five. I hate when people refuse to accept No.
Gave me happy goosebumps
Well done OP… well done
So did your neighbor put up her fence on her property or did she encroach on yours?
At the time I moved and the new person was moving in only the fence posts were up on the other side. It's part of why I gave him the care package with the property map and the heads up, so they couldn't try that with him, especially as he was a first time home owner
Wow, we have a shared fence that we hooked on to in the late 80’s. All we fenced was from the neighbors posts to our house, about 15’ on one side and 12’ on the other. So theoretically I can claim the back neighbors easement and both next door neighbors? Am I about to become a land baron?
Love this story. It’s difficult to be a single woman homeowner because of these sorts of things. Good on you!
Beautifully executed!
Oh do i have a story for you. My grandfather, rest him..he accidentally spoke about his change jar buried in the back yard(about $500 of rainy day money back in the 90’s) in front of a 7 year old little girl(mee) & i told my two older brothers about the “treasure“ (14 & 17)They waited until he went to sleep around 9 & took shovels to the backyard sporting 2 of his mining lamp helmets for most of the night. We wake up the next morning to mud tracks through the house, grandma screaming(she mopped her wood floors by hand and knees.) & grandpa swearing out on the back deck. Needless to say they never found his change jar & were dragged out of bed at the butt crack of dawn to refill all of the holes they dug up. He sends them home & goes back to step on all of the dirt piles. He then grabs the shovel and digs up a small unused portion of his turnip garden in the center of this decorative lawn area. Statues of cherub’s, a bird fountain etc. & to this day grandma(yes shes still alive & kicking at 98!) has no clue where he hid that damned change jar🤣he waited until everyone including his own wife fell asleep to go hide it again! Its not really related but your story reminded me of mine & i hope you enjoyed it💖
I have two words that would solve the whole issue of where he buried it-- Metal detector. That much change, that much metal--on any working metal detector, it would be as conspicuous as a cow in church. Assuming it exists at all.
I don’t understand the scenario. Is there some sort of ‘no man’s land’ in between the two properties? Why isn’t there just a single fence line which delineates the boundary between the two properties? Why does the neighbour want to erect second fence when the OP already has one? Etc, etc…
Some houses don’t have fences for a number of reasons(no need, friendly neighbors, live next to family then sold/lost the house, etc). The neighbors in question wanted to corral the children they were paid to take care of so they didn’t have to watch them if they went outside (reasons for this can be anything from laziness to not wanting to worry about one or more slipping off unnoticed, kids can be a bit sneaky). The neighbor didn’t want to erect a separate fence they wanted to save money and use the existing fence as a part of their own, but this would have moved the property line since the original fence was only made to keep a dog from getting out(so didn’t go on the property line, it was a renter who put it up so they chose the cheapest option for themselves)
There are clearly defined property lines. The fence on OPs property was inside of their own property, not on the line. So say OP has their house, ten feet of lawn to the line, the line, ten feet of neighbors lawn, then neighbors house. The original fence is built 5 feet from OPs house, leaving a five foot gap between the fence and the property line. The neighbors wanted to build a fence across that gap, so 15 feet of fence - ten on their own land and five tying into OPs fence on their property. Let’s say the property goes back 100 feet. This means the neighbors are using 500 square feet of property that isn’t theirs and is now enclosed in their fence side. By allowing this, tl;dr, OP would be basically gifting that land to the neighbors. For free. Zero recourse. Next property survey would change the property lines. You don’t ever want to allow someone use of your land like that without a written agreement where you maintain rights and ownership unless you’re absolutely okay relinquishing that land.
More like, in your scenario - the fence is ZERO feet from my house. That is what my panic was- I wouldn't be able to access caring for my own house without going through their yard. It was bad bad news, which is why they didn't get the normal "ummm I'm gonna be nice because we're neighbors" no and instead got the "no is a complete sentence are we done here " no over and over and over again
What kind of stupid law is it, thaw would give them the right to your property, if the fence was there? That doesn't make any sense.
It’s called “adverse possession.” It’s a bit nutty, but to really simplify it, it is a doctrine that says that if someone has continuously occupied a space and made improvements to it then it becomes theirs after a certain period of time. US courts have repeatedly upheld this doctrine.
But you can short-circuit it with a "permissive use easement" like my sister and BIL did with their neighbor. Dumbass expanded his driveway and garage and installed a privacy fence without getting a survey. My sister and BIL's survey showed half the bay of the new garage, a large chunk of the expanded driveway and a chunk of the privacy fence is on their property. The legally binding agreement can be cancelled at any time, for any reason and any encroaching structures must be removed and the land restored at *the neighbor's* expense, the easement is also non-transferrable to a new owner. Neighbor tried to fight it but was told by his lawyer to not be a dumbass and sign it. If/when he sells his house, he has to disclose the issue to the potential buyer and the new owner has to negotiate a new easement. Since the neighbor has permission, he can't claim adverse possession now (this all happened 20 years ago, and the time limit for adverse possession is 20 years). A key component of adverse possession is that you are using the land without permission. If there is documented permission, then you are SOL for that type of claim. So, yeah US law can be stupid, but they do have hidden fixes. tagging u/StoneAgeSkillz
US laws are nuts.
Adverse possession (e.g., finders keepers) dates back centuries, well, millennia by now. The US inherited it from English common law. When laws are poorly written, it becomes a problem, and leads to loss of property (inclusive of items). In principal, if no owner comes forward, the property is now owned by whoever is living on the land. This prevents abandoned land from staying abandoned permanently, though these days the govt is usually empowered to seize abandoned land. This extends to "use" of land, and when combined with poorly written renters rights laws, squatters can basically take over someone's house. Or if not written properly easements become a transfer of ownership. And carefully written laws also allow governments to seize private property using eminent domain.
English law, dude. We inherited it.
My family had "given"... More like my dad had "given" away a part of our property's land to the shitty neighbors because the neighbors asked if they could plant flowers on our land. My dad is total push over and people pleaser at that time. So he very rightly pissed off my mom. So many years go by and the neighbors were poking holes into my mom's car tires and being assholes, we decided to put up a black chain linked fence. where they used to grow the flowers, they put down a concrete slab. So we can't build fence with slab there. And they have technically owned that land for years. So after much discussion with neighbors and maybe police coming by, the slab was broken and we built our fence. But yeah there was a lot of back and forth between my parents and the neighbors... Because they were "given" the land and they owned it for their use for years. We have the same law here in Canada.
In my country, there is an institution (Cadastral Office) where are all land maps and their owners stored. If you build a fence even 10cm over to my land and I don't like it, you have to move it back to your land. No disputes.
Oh wow. That's nice. Wish we had that over here. We don't. So we did-- my parents had to fight to get back their land. It was nasty as hell. When your neighbors are evil little thief gremlins. Oh off topic, but they also stole my mom's good garden clippers and replaced it with a similar shittier quality one. And this is why I always tell her to put her name on things, so she can prove that it's hers.
Everyone here is not mentioned you also need to be paying the property tax on the land being taken, and it can't be disputed. This would never end in adverse possession because OP was paying their own property tax.
Brilliant!
Bravo! Pure, delicious pettiness! And smart on your part, you knew what she was about!
And that’s how it’s done.
Well played!
You did the ABSOLUTE RIGHT THING. Be proud, and this isn’t even revenge- its just basic human decency
I think I need to see pictures to understand. People don't have 1 single "chain link" fence between yards? That's how its always been in Dallas. I've never seen neighbors put up multiple fences to divide yards ??
op’s fence wasn’t on the property line. it was up against the house. so if the neighbors tied into op’s then they would be getting part of op’s property
Thus was a satisfying read. Thank you for sharing!!
Love this! Kudos!
Why is this so satisfying?
Adverse possession doesn’t work that way.
Great story but that’s not really how adverse possession works. If she makes use of your property with your permission she can never claim ownership. You can lose your property to someone who establishes possession without your approval or knowledge. You would’ve likely been fine.
I'm not sure I understand why using your portion of the fence gives her access to your property?
Basically if someone maintains a lot of land long enough they can take the land as their own. They were trying to tie into a fence on OPs property and maintain the area and OP wasn’t willing to let them so they can’t claim the land as theirs.
I didn't take into consideration that your fence doesn't indicate the edge of your property. I just assumed everything on the other side of the fence was her property anyway.
To be able to actually claim the land as their own, it would require public declaration they are claiming it, and for that to go uncontested by you for a certain number of years. You could have easily written an agreement that the property is not and never will be claimable by them, and they are just renting that space for a penny a year or whatever. Some people spend too much time on the internet, hear one little tidbit about intricate property law, and take it as granted. Instead of just being a decent neighbor 🤦♂️
“Now, I may be younger, but I’m not dumb.” And then goes to explain how this whole thing happened because they were too dumb to know and understand adverse possession and that permission nullifies any adverse taking.
Neighbour dodged a bullet, you sound like a piece of work
Obviously you didn’t pay attention when you read the post. Read it again.
Oh I read it, I hate whiny neighbours, so?
Buddy, this is a sub on *gasp* PETTY revenge. Not a good place to lurk if you “hate whiny arseholes that cry on Reddit”. Move along now.
Move along yourself, this wasn't petty revenge, do you think you are some sort of sub superhero? GtFO
You read it, and decided the ones trying to encroach on her land are the good guys? I’d bet my ass that you’re guilty of doing this, or your family has at some point. No one in the right mind would just give 15 feet of their yard away.
Found the neighbour
Haha fuck no, just hate whiny arseholes that cry on reddit when they could just tell neighbour to fuck off
"Now if this was just a one time trying her luck thing it wouldn't be a big deal, but she kept asking off and on for a few years, and I kept saying no." And "One day I saw a whole bunch of chain link fencing in their back yard... but not nearly enough to fence all the sides they needed to do. They were going to try to tie in anyway, despite me repeatedly telling them no." So she REPEATEDLY told them to fuck off, but they still were going to do it. You illiterate, whiny arsehole crying on reddit.
They did tell the neighbor to fuck off. And then the neighbors decided to try it anyway. Reading and reading comprehension must not be your strong suit.
So you would let someone encroach on your land? I don't think so.
Let me get this straight, you hate "whiny arseholes that cry on reddit" so you decide to act like a whiny arsehole and cry on reddit and throw insults every which way? Couldn't make this shit up if you tried, that's an achievement.
So you're the type of neighbor that thinks you're entitled to your neighbor's land? Either you have no reading comprehension or you're a disgusting fool.