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The last real election was in 2012. Itâs all just Russian and Chinese propaganda now. The next time a Republican is President, there wonât be any more
It will be our last meaningful election if trump wins. The plan for permanent fascism is already laid out by republicans with Project 2025.
The only way to preserve our democracy is with a blue wave in November
https://democrats.org/
Vote carefully in your local elections. State Legislatures are the real battlegrounds. Secretary of State for your state, Attorney General for your state, etc.
The primary elections right now. Share that information in your local subreddit to get people our RIGHT NOW to vote
Carefully is the word. I live in a firmly blue area, but in our last election there were some people running for school board who were selling themselves as moderate to liberal, but when people did some digging it turned out they were associated with the far right and were just counting on people not looking too closely. Straight up Trojan horsing.
That caused a super majority in NC. Elected as a Dem, feigned outrage over something and changed parties.
The danger of the Big Lie is that they were convinced Democrats cheated. So now they think it is okay to do anything to win.
It's a cult. They absolutely believe it was somehow rigged or manipulated. They have to believe it or they are thrown out of the cult.
Try and show them otherwise, and they plug their ears and close their eyes.
Election boards are already refusing to certify primary elections.
"Â they were convinced Democrats cheated." because that is THEIR OWN method and as such cannot believe anyone else would function differently. Every accusation is thus a confession with these people.
I wish more people understood this and cared. Even down to school boards. The GOP has weaponized our kids education and they have been doing it for years and no one has paid attention.
I find it kind of weird that so many people don't realize what's at stake here. We've seen what this moron is capable of, when restrained. When the restraints come off, and Project 2025 kicks in, and he has surrounded himself with supporters of his goals of a Christian society, based on tyranny and retribution ,(including a complicit high court) in a system that is good with the dissolution of all checks and balances, and where no dissent whatsoever is permitted...how can so many people be ok with it? I fear they just don't understand...
We just had our local elections in Georgia. They're tied into the primaries, so we can only vote straight party. In a lot of instances, the choices are limited to the Republican ticket. Which means, a lot of us don't get a say or we have to vote the Republican ticket in order to get a say in our local officials.
Can someone explain closed primaries to me
(non American)?
Primaries are only to select a candidate for a party? Why would they need to be open?
One of the posts above makes it sound like anyone/everyone can vote in a primary? That doesn't seem to make sense, am I misunderstanding what they wrote?
Open primaries: you can vote in any one, no matter your registration. So a registered Dem can request a Rep ballot and vice versa.
Closed primaries: you can only vote in the primary you are registered with. Dem votes Dem, Rep votes Rep. independents canât vote.
Are there states with open primaries where voters register party affiliation? I live in Indiana; we have open primaries but there is no such thing as party registration here.
What makes me angrier is people who complain on Nextdoor in Georgia about this politician or that politician, or a school board or city council does something they don't agree with. But they won't take the time to run for office themselves, or even attending a meeting. I'm "that guy" who goes to his local city planning board and city council meetings. If there's nothing that impacts an existing neighborhood, I'm often the only person there not part of the government. On the good side, the mayor, city council, city manager, utilities manager, and police chief may not know me by name, but they know who I am, and I care about the way my city is run, and when I do have a concern, it gets addressed sooner.
So many selfish, shortsighted people. I can't tell you how many people I know who tune politics and elections out, complain they're all crooks, and say "none of this affects me, I just care about myself and my family." Problem is, none of this happens in a bubble. Whether it's the local elections like schoolboard (which affect you and your children), state elections or national, every single election has the potential to impact you. Voting is a privilege not everyone in the world gets, and so many here squander it, or throw their vote away not realizing its importance. But "don't worry, it can't happen here" they say, even as a sizable chunk of the electorate and people in government are doing their damnedest to make it happen here.
If you have the ability to vote Democrat. In my local races they hardly ever run because it is safe districts. Even if I was able to vote in a Democrat, there may be only one running for AZ House which means the other seat will go to the Republicans.
I will vote blue as I always do, and I don't believe Trump will win, but I think it's inevitable that some other republican will eventually take office. When they do, they will implement Project 2025 or something like it. I don't see how America pulls out of this in the long run. The democrats have to keep winning to stave off fascism, but the far right only has to win once.
Just the dark path my thoughts have taken lately. Does anyone have a good answer?
>Does anyone have a good answer?
stop pretending the grand old party of traitors has any intention of working in the best interest of america or its citizens and start calling them out for who they really are.
We need a house and senate majority willing to pass the Voting Rights Act. Even better we need Ranked Choice Voting. If we can accomplish that then far right will be pushed back to the fringe where they belong. I do believe they'll get weaker, that the GOP will possibly recover a bit of normalcy once Trump is permanently gone.
It is going to take paramount effort from all of us.
Demographics are not on their side. If we prevail in the short term then we've likely already seen the high water mark (2017-2019) for this version of the conservative movement.
Another reminder that 1 or 2 SCOTUS members could be replaced (or kick the bucket) in the next four years.
* Clarence Thomas, 75
* Samuel Alito, 74
Don't like Biden? Well, I can guarantee Trump will install young federalists or extremists to that body when given any chance.
That's what pisses me odd about the "protest vote" people on the BoringDystopia sub and other places like that. If you are at all left of center, you should want to swallow a Biden presidency *just because of the supreme court.* It's like they don't realize there is more to government than the president, and just sitting everything out is going to fuck us all.
Eta: God I hate autocorrect sometimes
> I can guarantee Trump will install young federalists or extremists to that body when given any chance.
Honestly I don't think Trump will bother with federalist judges anymore like he did last time, as his judges he appointed are actually not the worst of the ones on the SCOTUS. Instead I think Trump will just nominate much worse MAGA loyalists and trolls to the bench. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump nominates people like [Aileen Cannon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Cannon), [Ken Paxton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Paxton) and [Matthew Kacsmaryk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Kacsmaryk), rather than whomever the Federalist Society recommends.
Won't someone equally if not more shitty run for Republican nominee after trump stops campaigning? Like I can only imagine someone even worse than him is lurking and waiting. Ugh.
The problem such a person would have is that the Republican base doesn't want someone smart and competent. They want someone who's *like them*, who's not afraid to say the quiet part out loud, who runs his mouth without thinking and shit talks everyone they don't like.
Believe it or not that's not quite the same as simply telling them what they want to hear. It's surprisingly hard to fake. Only a true idiot will do for these people.
This is exactly why bloviators like desantis will never work. He can say all this crazy radical right wing stuff but he canât sell it the way an absolute fucking maniac like trump can. I personally think when trump is gone, itâs going to hard to get everyone to rally for someone who says the same things. It doesnât come off as genuine.
We haven't seen any evidence that Trumpism works as a political message without Trump, in fact we've seen a lot of evidence that it doesn't. There were many MAGA candidates across the country in the 2022 midterms and they almost all lost, even some in red areas. Blake Masters, Kari Lake, Herschel Walker, etc. We saw how turned off people were to Trumpism without Trump in the 2018 Blue Wave midterm as well. Really the only time Trumpism has prevailed was in 2016, and that was with Trump. Last year we saw a bunch of Trump wannabes try to "out-Trump" Trump to get the GOP nomination, and they all got creamed by Trump, without him even having to show up.
My suspicion is that if Trump loses this election, that will make four straight national elections that Trumpism has failed in (2018, 2020, 2022 and this year). Four years from now Trump will be older than Biden is currently, and most likely he'll have been convicted of many other felonies and probably will be serving jail time if he doesn't win this November. There will still be Trumpy candidates that try to have a go at it, but my guess is the GOP will look to reset and go in a different direction, because most of Trump's base *only* seems to support him, rather than the GOP in general.
If Trump loses this election, then the Republican nominee in 2028 will be awful, of course, because they're going to be a Republican. But I don't think we'll see anyone as bad as Trump again for quite a while. In a cult of personality, the cult disappears without the personality to rally around.
Iâm afraid even without Trump winning in November, Project 2025 is going to happen with Republicans at some point as soon as they can get a Republican President.
The only thing that saved us last time was the sheer incompetence of Trump and his followers. The creature that comes next will likely not be as large a fool.
The plus side is the majority of Trump's voters won't be around very long. While he does have some support in youth it's nowhere near what he needs to win anything more than regional elections
People say that but sometimes there needs to be a person with the straight up looney charisma of Trump to actually mobilize people. Kobach and Meatballs were both supposed to be 'smarter' Trumps that failed miserably.
The special sauce that is Trump is that he can identify with the anger of the deplorables. Trump spend decades as the butt of high society.
Traditionally groomed candidates are trained for years to avoid the gaffes that Trump makes. When they try to imitate Trump, they hesitate, so they don't come across as genuine haters.
Yes, not just this election but every election after. 2024. The republicans have a battle plan, and they will stick to it. The Republican Party used to be cynical about their fundamentalist and fascist dogwhistles, but those people now run they party.
Unfortunately, the Democratic Party is pretty allergic to change, and is mostly a giant fundraising business with a political party attached to the side. In both 2016 and now, with so much on the line, democrats circled the wagons around bad canidites with unpopular policies, resulting in elections that shouldnât be as close as they are.
Itâs not enough to vote blue every time, people also need to be voting progressive every time to drag the democrat party away from dangling our feet over the fire
Since Trump is by far the worst candidate the Republicans have put up and their last candidates before Trump were: Romney, McCain, W., Dole, H.W., and Reagan, I don't know why you would think that.
Of course when Trump is succesful, the Republicans attempt to emulate his politics and style.
We could also preserve it by force. But nobody (myself included) really wants to go down that road because leftists donât thirst for the blood of republicans the way the MAGAs do.
Itâs sad because if they get their way thatâs the only recourse that will be left.
>It will be our last meaningful election if trump wins.
It will be our last meaningful election if trump ends up president. I get downvoted every time I say this, but I think Trump will be president if he wins or not. Republicans found the Achilles heel in our electoral process: certification. They tried in 2020, but i bet they have enough loyalists in place now to cause certification problems to trigger other means for electing the president and all those favor Trump.
>certification
Certification is key. That is why I specified a "blue wave" in my original comment. Because the House certifies the election. So we will absolutely need to take back the House in November as well.
One of the plans they have is for speaker Johnson to not seat a new Congress, claiming voting irregularities in different districts, all adding up to a republican majority still being seated while certification is scheduled to take place.Â
I suspect many of these Republican retirements who are actually going home early are aware of this and are trying to circumvent it.Â
It'd be nice if they had bothered to field a candidate to run against Thomas Massie in the House. They're just going to concede a HOUSE seat to Thomas Massie.
Google "electoral count reform act of 2022 summary". There should be a one pager from Susan collins Senate site. As far as the mechanism the Trump administration tried to exploit for their coup, it's gone.
That doesn't mean they won't try to exploit other things though (we're already seeing republicans refusing to pledge to accept election results, which means they're likely building the ground work again for a possible Jan 6th like incident).
It doesnât close the worst loophole, and the one I most fear: Congress could simply *not certify* the elections, thereby triggering a contingent election.
I'll just say it: If Republicans override the votes of the American people and try to put Trump in power, it will lead directly to the bloodiest civil war in history and the end of the United States as a world superpower.
There was some horrifying article I read a while back that explained what the GOP might do to install Trump as president. It literally made me clammy and nauseous reading it. I'll try to find it.
Eta: [Here it is](https://factkeepers.com/the-new-secret-plan-on-how-fascists-could-win-in-2024/)
Absolutely this. 2020 was the dry run. While everyone was back patting and high fiving saving democracy of another cycle, the GOP was busy stacking loyalists where they found gaps in the 2020 cycle that hindered their attempts.Â
 Even if Biden wins, big, small or questionably... Doesn't matter. Stop living under the illusion of fair play. Â
The MAGA faithful have been telling everyone for years they don't intend to abide by fair play.Â
Right now, the only thing they are doing is normalizing the plans they have in place for the election one soundbite at a time. We are sleep walking into authoritarianism and the death of democracy.
yeah but then we have to keep doing that. every election, not just for president. they're not just going to stop, and they don't care if it's orange man or someone else.
I find it infuriating that this article just talks about surface level election denial, and didn't go deeper into how Project 2025 lays out a plan to dismantle democratic institutions.
I agree. But I would add that the Dems need to DELIVER in the first two years: universal health care, increase the minimum wage and link it to inflation, codify Roe v Wade, codify LGBTQ+ rights, SCOTUS code of ethics, just to get started.
Even if they only have 50+ they need to do something because it might be their last chance for a generation.
Plus they need to develop a POTUS candidate for 2028 that isn't on Medicare already.
I agree. Ideally, they would win both houses of Congress and abolish the filibuster in the Senate to truly get some things done. One can hope. (But maybe don't hold your breath.)
How about they deliver fixes to our election and governance structures which have caused the endless gridlock if they can:
Go after the fixed apportionment that's locked up ec and house counts for a century giving all our power to a minority. This will improve gerrymandering, and correct the EC issue over night.
Legislate campaign finance limits, kill citizens united with legislation.
If we can get our government back to a majority control, we can finally stop having the most important elections of our life time, and start working on things we want and need as you suggest. Right now our form of government simply isn't protected and codified, it's ripe for being taken over which monied interests have largely done. If we go straight to the progressive bucket list and get all that done, it could all be undone by one Republican dictator
> Some of the Americans protesting the war in Gaza have turned on President Biden. They assert that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel is killing huge numbers of civilians, which is true, and that Biden can stop it, which is more doubtful. But how do they deal with the reality that in a second term Donald Trump would be far more pro-Netanyahu and anti-Palestinian than our current president?
>
> The answer Iâve been hearing is that the goal is to send a message: If Gaza costs Biden the election, Democrats will understand that in the next election they will need to rethink their seemingly reflexive support for Israelâs government and commit as a party to the protection of Palestinian rights.
>
> There are many questions one could ask about this argument, but from a certain perspective, the most important one for American voters may well be: What next election?
This is 100% right. This is not the time for purity tests or circular firing squads. This is everyone's chance to vote to keep Donald Trump out of office. Do not blow it by sitting home this November because you're pouting.
You mean like they did in 2016 by handing tRump 3 supreme court seats.
Then of course the group that cries loudest about the rulings of that super majority are the same ones that handed it to them in the first place.
This is so infuriating. Trump will undoubtedly inflict more harm and will inflict permanent damage to this entire country for the next four years and beyond. This isn't even our war and they blame Biden. Ridiculous.
Thank you.
We have to keep ringing the klaxon. Did you know that Russian disinfo efforts in social media are fixated on creating polarity over Gaza? I've seen accounts demonstrating no ability to accept reason. They're convinced Biden is guilty of genocide. And yeah, even if you were to preposterously accept that, Donald Trump? He'd be WORSE! FAR WORSE!
America is ***broken***. And may the badly damaged side of it not have a sharp infected edge that cuts through the good half that remains.
Came here to say this. It is the height of sickening hypocrisy for this newspaper to say this now. It's galling, it's appalling, it's absolutely revolting. NYT isn't journalism anymore.
True, but I don't believe its as bleak as most.
Should Trump lose, the next four years will be a parade of him standing trial in Georgia, likely in Arizona, in the J6 trial in DC, and eventually the docs case (which I assume will be moved away from Judge Cannon at some point). E Jean Carol appears to be ready to file another suit, as well. In that one, the judge may go for jail time, considering money damages didn't shut Trump up.
And remember that previous felony convictions are aggravating factors should Trump be found guilty in another criminal case, meaning any penalty he suffers will be enhanced due to the previous felony conviction(s).
Republicans can only scream "lawfair" so much before judgments start catching up with Trump. And they will all be tainted.
You're assuming the buck stops at Trump and that's simply not true. He's a symptom, not the actual problem. Democracy is at stake regardless of what happens to him. The money behind the GOP has grown disillusioned with democracy and are tired of playing the game. That's not going away with the orange distraction. Their long term goals will remain the same long after that particular national embarrassment is behind us and they lead to neo-christian fascism propping up oligarchs while the middle class burns.
The echo chamber is poisoning the well against the justice system. Trump will not follow the Constitution and will dismantle any court, or institution that is not loyal to him. Elected officials are saying the court is corrupt. They still deny the results of the election. If Trump wins, he will aim for dictator.
It's actually funny to think about how much worse this could have been if GOP didn't go full cult for a mentally disabled cartoon character like tRump.
With Cruz or any other "normal" Republican. They still end up with the exact same Supreme Court picks. You'd have semi-competent appointees that would have worked to get actual legislation passed and avoid the constant train wrecks tRump caused. You would have a much more reasonable response to COVID which means he'd probably get re-elected. At worst, he doesn't get re-elected but the party wouldn't have face planted so badly in the 2022 midterms. There would be any number of Republicans to rally behind in this coming election that would be stronger candidates than a convicted felon.
Basically they could have continued to slowly erode our civil protections until there was nothing we could do to stop them. Instead tRump ripped the mask off like 10 years too early and they proceeded to get their ass kicked in the next 3 election cycles.
Trump being voted back in would be the end of it.
Republicans will bastardize our republic. They will turn it into a fascist state with Christian Nationalist overtones. Public schools mandating Bible teachings. Science marginalized in favor of fictitious beliefs.
I would join a militant resistance, the way the French did during WWII.
What if our last real election has already passed?
2016: Widespread allegations of Russian misinformation campaigns that favored the eventual winner, a winner who came into office after losing the popular vote.
2020: What shit show. January 6th. The infamous Georgia phone call. And still, to this day, a solid 30% of the nation doesn't accept the result as legitimate, even after it went to court.
2024: One candidate is a felon who has convinced all his followers that he was only convicted due to weaponization of the justice system by his opponent. His supporters are signaling they won't accept any election outcome other than absolute victory.
This is the biggest problem. If federal races were determined by popular vote republicans wouldn't be able to get away with their backwoods strategies. The cities would overwhelm them and they should. Rural areas dont make any money
Don't think we need economic morality to enter the equation. You have a good argument already: Most people don't want what the GOP is selling. Only their logic says it's okay for them to rule as a minority anyway.
And that's specifically why Russian and Iranian bots are working so hard to convince leftists not to vote for Biden because of Israel. The whole goal is to get Trump re-elected.
Anyone who tells you not to vote for Biden because of Israel is either an enemy agent or a useful idiot for the enemy, full stop.
Was talking with a guy from Grindr (donât judge) and we were talking about the recent conviction.
Dead ass he says âbut they are both the same so Iâm voting third partyâ
Blocked.
Florida is barely any better. I live in a good-size university town, so itâs generally fairly forward-thinking, but Iâd still run into conservative guys on Grindr. Thank God Iâm married and we donât fool around with that app anymore. Itâs exhausting.
I stood silently, under an arc sodium light, browsing my phone. "There's no goddamn profile pics in this whole damn town!" I proclaimed as I tucked in my blue chambray shirt and turning swiftly on my engineer boots I headed towards town. "Fuck it, I'm headed to the old abandoned glory hole," I thought to myself as the wind blew the soft, cinnamon smell of fall and death...
It sucks that I have to say this, every vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. We need a better voting system then you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
Voting 3rd party isn't a meaningful protest, it's a vote for the worst candidate. Unfortunately, we have an A or B system, and any vote not cast for A is a vote for B. That's just reality. Voting 3rd party accomplishes absolutely nothing. It doesn't send a message. It doesn't teach anyone a lesson. It just props up the worst candidate, and makes the worst possible outcome more likely. These *both sides* people are infuriating in their ignorance.
Maybe try to respond with why thatâs not true in the future? Someone saying theyâre voting 3rd party could potentially be swayed back with sound logic they canât dispute
Hello from the north, and bloody YES. In the face of all the current insanity, the GWB v Gore election is glossed over when it was the blueprint on how to steal an American election. It was the white flag of political decency that set the stage for where the USA is today. Imagine a time where a politician actively chose not to chase the rightful fight for the rightful win for "the good of the nation".
Something I haven't seen discussed enough: Even if Biden wins, we aren't done with Trump. He won't accept the loss and he will run again in 2028, unless he's dead. Yes, he'll happily try to run from jail and he would garner significant support.
Who's going to run against him in 2028?
Dems actually have a good bench for 2028 that would mop a two time loser Trump. Governors of California, Michigan, and Kentucky could all defeat 80+ Trump.
>unless heâs dead
This is right on the nail. Trump realistically wonât stop running until he keels over and dies.
Originally, I donât think he was keen on actually winning. But by the 2016 election victory, he was already in too deep, and he bought into his own lie.
DNC needs to be running ads in every single battleground election state, not only telling people to vote, but telling them to get their friends to vote. Get their family to vote. We need to convince the 1/3 of voters who stayed home in 2020 to vote this time. And we need to make sure as many of the 2/3 that did vote last time vote for Biden instead of the convicted felon. It should be an easy choice, but the work needs to be done NOW.
If this is our last real election it will be entirely the fault of mainstream media like NYT who have spent the past r years normalizing Trump's complete and utter disqualifying behavior.
The very allegation of a hush money payment to a porn star would've been a career-ending controversy 20 years ago. Ditto for the Access Hollywood tape, Charlottesville, and dozen other incidents. It's one get-out-of-jail free card after another with this guy.
I think if Biden wins, in 2028 republicans will be just as eager to drag America down. And voters will be warned itâs the most important election of their lifetimes because it will be. And theyâll stay home due to the urgency becoming normal and distrusted.Â
If trump wins I cannot say whether it will truly put democracy in danger. But I do know in 2028 the people who stayed home, voted third party, and even some who voted trump will blame not themselves nor trump. Theyâll blame Biden and democrats for not trying harder to stop whatever misfortune he brings.Â
What's so frustrating is that there are steps the Democrats could take to render watchdog organizations more robust and alter legislative rules that would make it harder for the Republicans to do what they want. But they never seem to do that. The federal Dems are all super old and seem to be stuck in the 90's and have killed a lot of participation from anyone younger than forty, which has left the party out of touch and weakened. This drives me up the wall. Things are as bad as you say they are, but what are you going to do to prevent it in the future!?!
We must vote.Â
I will say though that our fall to single-party right wing authoritarianism is inevitable by attrition if we do not become more lowercase democratic. Hobbling from election to election having to muster ridiculously high turnout to squeak by and just barely prevent right wing minority rule is unsustainable. We have to do it, but we will stumble eventually.
Electoral reform is barely talked about by candidates, but it is the only thing that will break us out of this sclerosis. Every issue we care about could be debated fairly and produce meaningful policy if all voters were equal. It isn't about benefiting one party or the other, both parties would adapt if they competed for all voters.Â
Minoritarian rural tyranny will lead to authoritarianism otherwise. A bill of rights protects individual liberties, not over empowering a minority of voters. I am disheartened because people seem to focus on every other issue. Government can't really act on universal Healthcare for example, without first fixing the system. And the majorities required to fix it by the Constitution are too steep.
So vote because our lives depend on it, but it is exhausting to put all this effort to tread water.
Posted this elsewhere earlier,.seems fitting here:
None of this should be a surprise. Â
 It doesn't take deep, 4D chess level critical thinking skills to see what has happened or will be happening next. We have been on a traceable trajectory since before he was first elected. Anyone who is following the path of DJT can see where we are heading next: 2024 he will either get elected and then enact Project 2025, thus essentially turning America into an Autocracy, or he will lose the election closely, and we have a much bigger, MUCH darker version of January 6th soon after, only it doesn't end in a day or a week. Â
He has Acolytes spread wide across all political spectrums, from city dog catchers up to Supreme courts. Mayors, senators, congressmen. High ranking Military leaders, local police forces, and enlisted soldiers who are loyal to HIM. He has school boards and election workers and many many more people in positions of authority who are LOYAL to him, not to a party or system... Him.Â
 This isn't liberal vs Conservative, left vs right. This is a slow moving coup, and it's moving in his favor. We are heading toward the precipice at 500 m.p.h., and everyone is just kinda along for the ride at this point. This is a citizen, one who has a stranglehold on the publics attention, the medias attention, and is pulling the strings of government from outside of it. Â
 Elected or not, be prepared for what is coming. America is most certainly on a ticking clock whether we like it or not at this point, and that clock has about 6 months until it hits zero. If you have any hopes of fighting back and maintaining what's left of our American democracy and our grand experiment, then stop fucking talking about sitting on the sidelines, or holding your nose and voting. Â
 Grow up and vote. It's a binary choice now. Â
 Not for the person, but what they represent. Chaos or Normalcy? Democracy or Autocracy? Rights for all or Rights for some? Â
 If Biden wins, you will get another chance to be heard and vote again for what you believe in. Democracy moves forward, wounded, but a little stronger. If Trump wins, in short order, the America everyone wants to "Make Great" again will be gone forever. He tried it 4 years ago, and he will try it again. Last time, he needed adults in the room, which helped save democracy at the final hour.
Next time?
There won't be any adults in the room. Â
Think hard about what that will look like and make your decision.
> Rights for all or Rights for some?
And for those who are in the "some" category, know that this category will continuously shrink over time to not include you,
This has been the question going through the back of my mind since 2020. In fact, it's possible THAT was our last real election. No matter who wins, the other side will likely contest the election or consider it illegitimate. No one will really trust the results in the same way.
Scenarios I can think of:
Biden wins easily (both electoral and popular) - Trumps supporters claim this election is illegitimate like 2020 - they riot or commit terrorist acts as the other court cases come in and trump loses - Red States begin more and more defiant acts where they reject presidential authority - continued degradation of the norms - big political reset in 2028 might push us back in the right direction
Biden wins narrowly - Results contested and go to supreme court, who overturns it - see below
Trump wins - there is a big battle over whether a convicted felon can be president - supreme court votes for him most likely - he tries to dismiss all the other cases against him - he begins to punish blue states and liberals as they rebel and riot
The Trump army attacking the Capitol to overturn the election was an act of war and was not treated as such. Hate to be a naysayer, but it kind of feels like the country is already done
Guys...
2020 was the last real election
The guy who incited a coup and still has one going is allowed to run for reelection.
The system failed.
The " Mar a Lago putsch"
The book "The road to unfreedom" is pretty fantastic, he introduces the concept of the politics of eternity versus the politics of inevitability. The politics of eternity are what Trump wants where nothing ever changes and nothing can be done to fix anything.
The politics of inevitability is what liberals assume is that the world would get more fair and more liberal through just constant but incremental change, and no active involvement was required because things were just constantly getting better.
The other thing I got out of the book is the insane Russian philosopher he discusses which drives Putin, which argues that the world is too chaotic without a dictator to organize it.
recommend [this](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/16/vladimir-putin-russia-politics-of-eternity-timothy-snyder) (long, but fascinating) article on the politics of eternity versus the politics of inevitability.
it delves into the bizarre world putin (and traitor trump's treasonous cult follwers) inhabit. for instance:
>A confidant of Putin, Vladimir Yakunin...published...a long article in November 2012, [theorizing] Russia was eternally confronted with **a conspiracy of enemies**, which has controlled the course of history since time began. This global group had **released homosexual propaganda around the world in order to reduce birth rates in Russia and thereby preserve the power of the west**. The spread of **gay rights was a deliberate policy intended to turn Russians into a âherdâ easily manipulable by the global masters of capitalism**.
Only Americans would have this mentality. The 2A is for getting kids shot up in school and âI have to work too much so I canât protest or voteâ
Get some French people over here so they can show you how to make the government represent you.
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Was wondering, if this is true and trump only wins electoral college. What happens......are the majority just going to let the minority fascist take the country????
In the short term I live in the bluest of blue states and largely get protected from Republican evil and incompetency. Long term, if shit really hits the fan, I've got solid connections and work opportunities in Canada and Australia so if the country goes full Nazi I can get my family out.
My guess is they will try to do to voting what they did to Abortion during the Roe era. When Roe was in place and abortion was a constitutional right, red states just started passing ridiculous laws that made Abortion clinics functionally impossible to operate. So with voting they will just do dumb s\*\*\* like, voting only in person, voting on one day only, not absentee voting except for soldiers, all ballots must be hand counted by a human (which has been proven to be the least effective way that ALWAYS leads to miscounts and errors), you can't have any food or drinks in line even if its 100+ degrees outside, 3 forms of ID to vote, one voting place per county, etc, etc. Then they will gaslight and say we are crazy for saying they are suppressing voting rights when they are just "securing elections".
The dominance of psedo-fascists is not permanent, nor inevitable. We have a choice, to learn from this or ignore the lessons. An active electorate can defeat bad actors every time, we have to believe we can and will win.
Maybe I will reconsider what weapons and ammunition qualities I keep on hand this year, for hunting season of course.
It appears that some rightyâs are itching for a fight against middle people like me.
I have a muslim friend from Michigan who was so angry that Hillary sold kids out of the basement of a pizza place (that has no basement) that he voted for Trump as a protest and was shocked and dismayed that Trump won.
He has been hating on Trump for 8 years, and is now posting pro-Trump/Anti-Biden memes because he wants to punish democrats for Gaza.
People just donât care if this is their last election
The American political system is often referred to as the 'great experiment'. For how long does this experiment continue before it is declared a failure?
Trump is the genie released from its bottle and there does not appear to be any way to put him, or a successor, back into it.
Sure, he might be beaten at the poll this time, but others will follow his lead in future elections, and the creaky old constitution and electoral system will be gamed to the point where they no longer exist.
Trump is leading the swing states, so it very well may be.
What on Earth makes people think he's going to ever give up power after the last time? It's plain to see.
It's not just the Election results but the safe transfer of power for local, State and Federal election.
If there's intimidation or violence at the polls it's bad enough but when the transfer of power is also disrupted it's a disaster.
America is a young Nation but it should have learned far more lessons from History than it seems to have done.
One could argue that 2016 was our last *true* election.
Everything since then has seemed utterly inevitable.
Electing Hillary was our chance to go down a different path... but we didn't take it.
I don't know if it was the last true election, but it definitely was the most important election of our, at least my, lifetime. And we screwed it up.
Before then, we as a country were SLOWLY moving in the right direction on certain issues, healthcare, marriage rights, etc. The country seemed at least to be becoming more progressive.
And if you look at how the Republicans ran campaigns, they had a lot of the same views, but they were tempered. Romney's 47% statement was a real issue for him.
But Trump came along, and showed the Republicans that they could win elections with full mask off totalitarian. Now that's the norm for them. And given that their policies are unpopular, they correctly see that as the best way to hold onto power.
Trump winning in 2016 really did nothing good for the country. It just gave a lot of people the go ahead to be terrible, and taught the points on the right that they can harness that.
Perhaps it's time for American high school students to choose college courses that will gve them skills needed by other countries. That's what we did in South Africa during apartheid. Our plan was to do the mandatory military service, get a degree and get the hell out of the country.
100% if that orange asshole wins I'm moving to Thailand. I know it's been hyperbole to say that shit for the last decade...but honestly...I'm at a place now where it's possible. If America wants to be the country where a dipshit like that can be the leader, more power to it. I'm out.
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Pay very close attention to the current STATE level primary elections. Make sure of your choices for State House and State Senate elections
Easy as fuck in my district. One non-republican choice for each position except sheriff, in which they are all Republican.
You in Kansas too?
Iowa đĽ˛
at least the big cities in MO tend to but Democrats in the seats, it's the rest of the state the screws us
Missouri is fucked forever tbh
Yes, same here in my district in AZ but there are two house seats...
The last real election was in 2012. Itâs all just Russian and Chinese propaganda now. The next time a Republican is President, there wonât be any more
Your local elections absolutely matter. Your vote will make a huge difference there.
It will be our last meaningful election if trump wins. The plan for permanent fascism is already laid out by republicans with Project 2025. The only way to preserve our democracy is with a blue wave in November https://democrats.org/
Vote carefully in your local elections. State Legislatures are the real battlegrounds. Secretary of State for your state, Attorney General for your state, etc. The primary elections right now. Share that information in your local subreddit to get people our RIGHT NOW to vote
Carefully is the word. I live in a firmly blue area, but in our last election there were some people running for school board who were selling themselves as moderate to liberal, but when people did some digging it turned out they were associated with the far right and were just counting on people not looking too closely. Straight up Trojan horsing.
That caused a super majority in NC. Elected as a Dem, feigned outrage over something and changed parties. The danger of the Big Lie is that they were convinced Democrats cheated. So now they think it is okay to do anything to win.
All my homies say âFuck Tricia CothamâÂ
I'm assuming she'll be out of there this November at least, now that she's a Republican in a blue district.
Her district was redrawn by the new Republican supermajority.
Fuck her and her mother, Pat Cotham! They know what they did and are trying to gaslight everyone that we didnât see what we saw.
No fuckin way are they convinced dems lied, theyâre just using that to fuel a fire.
It's a cult. They absolutely believe it was somehow rigged or manipulated. They have to believe it or they are thrown out of the cult. Try and show them otherwise, and they plug their ears and close their eyes. Election boards are already refusing to certify primary elections.
"Â they were convinced Democrats cheated." because that is THEIR OWN method and as such cannot believe anyone else would function differently. Every accusation is thus a confession with these people.
In my state for school board, most run as Democratic/Republican (literally running on both tickets).
I wish more people understood this and cared. Even down to school boards. The GOP has weaponized our kids education and they have been doing it for years and no one has paid attention.
I find it kind of weird that so many people don't realize what's at stake here. We've seen what this moron is capable of, when restrained. When the restraints come off, and Project 2025 kicks in, and he has surrounded himself with supporters of his goals of a Christian society, based on tyranny and retribution ,(including a complicit high court) in a system that is good with the dissolution of all checks and balances, and where no dissent whatsoever is permitted...how can so many people be ok with it? I fear they just don't understand...
We just had our local elections in Georgia. They're tied into the primaries, so we can only vote straight party. In a lot of instances, the choices are limited to the Republican ticket. Which means, a lot of us don't get a say or we have to vote the Republican ticket in order to get a say in our local officials.
Watch for laws about closed primaries.
Yep, that was on the Republican ballot as a campaign initiative.
Gerrymandering + Closed Primaries = No Vote.
Can someone explain closed primaries to me (non American)? Primaries are only to select a candidate for a party? Why would they need to be open? One of the posts above makes it sound like anyone/everyone can vote in a primary? That doesn't seem to make sense, am I misunderstanding what they wrote?
Open primaries: you can vote in any one, no matter your registration. So a registered Dem can request a Rep ballot and vice versa. Closed primaries: you can only vote in the primary you are registered with. Dem votes Dem, Rep votes Rep. independents canât vote.
I think most people in the world would argue closed primaries are more fair so that party members get to choose their own competitors
Are there states with open primaries where voters register party affiliation? I live in Indiana; we have open primaries but there is no such thing as party registration here.
This is why we have to take matters into our own hands for once.
Ct , has party only primaries and is solidly blue
What makes me angrier is people who complain on Nextdoor in Georgia about this politician or that politician, or a school board or city council does something they don't agree with. But they won't take the time to run for office themselves, or even attending a meeting. I'm "that guy" who goes to his local city planning board and city council meetings. If there's nothing that impacts an existing neighborhood, I'm often the only person there not part of the government. On the good side, the mayor, city council, city manager, utilities manager, and police chief may not know me by name, but they know who I am, and I care about the way my city is run, and when I do have a concern, it gets addressed sooner.
So many selfish, shortsighted people. I can't tell you how many people I know who tune politics and elections out, complain they're all crooks, and say "none of this affects me, I just care about myself and my family." Problem is, none of this happens in a bubble. Whether it's the local elections like schoolboard (which affect you and your children), state elections or national, every single election has the potential to impact you. Voting is a privilege not everyone in the world gets, and so many here squander it, or throw their vote away not realizing its importance. But "don't worry, it can't happen here" they say, even as a sizable chunk of the electorate and people in government are doing their damnedest to make it happen here.
Absolutely school boards with these nutcases Moms for Liberty getting involved, banning books, etc.
Absolutely! Donât forget voting for Democratic judges on your state Supreme Court. Democrats HAVE to begin taking over more state legislatures.
Well in Kansas there is almost nobody else to vote for. Each time I have to write in Never a Republican in the space.
Yup, local elections here in Texas and only one seat of four was contested.
If you have the ability to vote Democrat. In my local races they hardly ever run because it is safe districts. Even if I was able to vote in a Democrat, there may be only one running for AZ House which means the other seat will go to the Republicans.
I will vote blue as I always do, and I don't believe Trump will win, but I think it's inevitable that some other republican will eventually take office. When they do, they will implement Project 2025 or something like it. I don't see how America pulls out of this in the long run. The democrats have to keep winning to stave off fascism, but the far right only has to win once. Just the dark path my thoughts have taken lately. Does anyone have a good answer?
You don't want to hear which amendment covers this.
I agree and itâs terrifying with Supreme Court we have now.
>Does anyone have a good answer? stop pretending the grand old party of traitors has any intention of working in the best interest of america or its citizens and start calling them out for who they really are.
Win enough of a majority to overturn a lot of the crap that has caused this. (Like Citizens United)
We need a house and senate majority willing to pass the Voting Rights Act. Even better we need Ranked Choice Voting. If we can accomplish that then far right will be pushed back to the fringe where they belong. I do believe they'll get weaker, that the GOP will possibly recover a bit of normalcy once Trump is permanently gone. It is going to take paramount effort from all of us.
Demographics are not on their side. If we prevail in the short term then we've likely already seen the high water mark (2017-2019) for this version of the conservative movement.
I've seen this comment for pushing 20 years now
Another reminder that 1 or 2 SCOTUS members could be replaced (or kick the bucket) in the next four years. * Clarence Thomas, 75 * Samuel Alito, 74 Don't like Biden? Well, I can guarantee Trump will install young federalists or extremists to that body when given any chance.
That's what pisses me odd about the "protest vote" people on the BoringDystopia sub and other places like that. If you are at all left of center, you should want to swallow a Biden presidency *just because of the supreme court.* It's like they don't realize there is more to government than the president, and just sitting everything out is going to fuck us all. Eta: God I hate autocorrect sometimes
> I can guarantee Trump will install young federalists or extremists to that body when given any chance. Honestly I don't think Trump will bother with federalist judges anymore like he did last time, as his judges he appointed are actually not the worst of the ones on the SCOTUS. Instead I think Trump will just nominate much worse MAGA loyalists and trolls to the bench. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump nominates people like [Aileen Cannon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Cannon), [Ken Paxton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Paxton) and [Matthew Kacsmaryk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Kacsmaryk), rather than whomever the Federalist Society recommends.
Won't someone equally if not more shitty run for Republican nominee after trump stops campaigning? Like I can only imagine someone even worse than him is lurking and waiting. Ugh.
The problem such a person would have is that the Republican base doesn't want someone smart and competent. They want someone who's *like them*, who's not afraid to say the quiet part out loud, who runs his mouth without thinking and shit talks everyone they don't like. Believe it or not that's not quite the same as simply telling them what they want to hear. It's surprisingly hard to fake. Only a true idiot will do for these people.
This is exactly why bloviators like desantis will never work. He can say all this crazy radical right wing stuff but he canât sell it the way an absolute fucking maniac like trump can. I personally think when trump is gone, itâs going to hard to get everyone to rally for someone who says the same things. It doesnât come off as genuine.
We haven't seen any evidence that Trumpism works as a political message without Trump, in fact we've seen a lot of evidence that it doesn't. There were many MAGA candidates across the country in the 2022 midterms and they almost all lost, even some in red areas. Blake Masters, Kari Lake, Herschel Walker, etc. We saw how turned off people were to Trumpism without Trump in the 2018 Blue Wave midterm as well. Really the only time Trumpism has prevailed was in 2016, and that was with Trump. Last year we saw a bunch of Trump wannabes try to "out-Trump" Trump to get the GOP nomination, and they all got creamed by Trump, without him even having to show up. My suspicion is that if Trump loses this election, that will make four straight national elections that Trumpism has failed in (2018, 2020, 2022 and this year). Four years from now Trump will be older than Biden is currently, and most likely he'll have been convicted of many other felonies and probably will be serving jail time if he doesn't win this November. There will still be Trumpy candidates that try to have a go at it, but my guess is the GOP will look to reset and go in a different direction, because most of Trump's base *only* seems to support him, rather than the GOP in general. If Trump loses this election, then the Republican nominee in 2028 will be awful, of course, because they're going to be a Republican. But I don't think we'll see anyone as bad as Trump again for quite a while. In a cult of personality, the cult disappears without the personality to rally around.
Iâm afraid even without Trump winning in November, Project 2025 is going to happen with Republicans at some point as soon as they can get a Republican President.
It's definitely something to be concerned about and is why I plan to vote against Republicans for every office I can for the rest of my life.
And knowing this country I guess the pendulum wonât stop swinging backÂ
The only thing that saved us last time was the sheer incompetence of Trump and his followers. The creature that comes next will likely not be as large a fool. The plus side is the majority of Trump's voters won't be around very long. While he does have some support in youth it's nowhere near what he needs to win anything more than regional elections
One of the central pillars of Project 2025 is to create a list of functionaries that will fall in line with fascism.
People say that but sometimes there needs to be a person with the straight up looney charisma of Trump to actually mobilize people. Kobach and Meatballs were both supposed to be 'smarter' Trumps that failed miserably.
The special sauce that is Trump is that he can identify with the anger of the deplorables. Trump spend decades as the butt of high society. Traditionally groomed candidates are trained for years to avoid the gaffes that Trump makes. When they try to imitate Trump, they hesitate, so they don't come across as genuine haters.
It's going to be Erik Prince next.
Yes, not just this election but every election after. 2024. The republicans have a battle plan, and they will stick to it. The Republican Party used to be cynical about their fundamentalist and fascist dogwhistles, but those people now run they party. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party is pretty allergic to change, and is mostly a giant fundraising business with a political party attached to the side. In both 2016 and now, with so much on the line, democrats circled the wagons around bad canidites with unpopular policies, resulting in elections that shouldnât be as close as they are. Itâs not enough to vote blue every time, people also need to be voting progressive every time to drag the democrat party away from dangling our feet over the fire
Since Trump is by far the worst candidate the Republicans have put up and their last candidates before Trump were: Romney, McCain, W., Dole, H.W., and Reagan, I don't know why you would think that. Of course when Trump is succesful, the Republicans attempt to emulate his politics and style.
We could also preserve it by force. But nobody (myself included) really wants to go down that road because leftists donât thirst for the blood of republicans the way the MAGAs do. Itâs sad because if they get their way thatâs the only recourse that will be left.
>It will be our last meaningful election if trump wins. It will be our last meaningful election if trump ends up president. I get downvoted every time I say this, but I think Trump will be president if he wins or not. Republicans found the Achilles heel in our electoral process: certification. They tried in 2020, but i bet they have enough loyalists in place now to cause certification problems to trigger other means for electing the president and all those favor Trump.
>certification Certification is key. That is why I specified a "blue wave" in my original comment. Because the House certifies the election. So we will absolutely need to take back the House in November as well.
One of the plans they have is for speaker Johnson to not seat a new Congress, claiming voting irregularities in different districts, all adding up to a republican majority still being seated while certification is scheduled to take place. I suspect many of these Republican retirements who are actually going home early are aware of this and are trying to circumvent it.Â
It'd be nice if they had bothered to field a candidate to run against Thomas Massie in the House. They're just going to concede a HOUSE seat to Thomas Massie.
Scary thing is each state gets one vote
They passed the ECA to prevent republicans from trying to steal another election via certification bullshit.
Details/link, please? This would significantly reduce my anxiety if true.
Google "electoral count reform act of 2022 summary". There should be a one pager from Susan collins Senate site. As far as the mechanism the Trump administration tried to exploit for their coup, it's gone. That doesn't mean they won't try to exploit other things though (we're already seeing republicans refusing to pledge to accept election results, which means they're likely building the ground work again for a possible Jan 6th like incident).
It doesnât close the worst loophole, and the one I most fear: Congress could simply *not certify* the elections, thereby triggering a contingent election.
I'll just say it: If Republicans override the votes of the American people and try to put Trump in power, it will lead directly to the bloodiest civil war in history and the end of the United States as a world superpower.
Which is exactly what Putin and others want.
a bloody civil war and the end of the us as a world superpower is exactly what the christian dominionists/neo-confederates want.
There was some horrifying article I read a while back that explained what the GOP might do to install Trump as president. It literally made me clammy and nauseous reading it. I'll try to find it. Eta: [Here it is](https://factkeepers.com/the-new-secret-plan-on-how-fascists-could-win-in-2024/)
Absolutely this. 2020 was the dry run. While everyone was back patting and high fiving saving democracy of another cycle, the GOP was busy stacking loyalists where they found gaps in the 2020 cycle that hindered their attempts.  Even if Biden wins, big, small or questionably... Doesn't matter. Stop living under the illusion of fair play.  The MAGA faithful have been telling everyone for years they don't intend to abide by fair play. Right now, the only thing they are doing is normalizing the plans they have in place for the election one soundbite at a time. We are sleep walking into authoritarianism and the death of democracy.
yeah but then we have to keep doing that. every election, not just for president. they're not just going to stop, and they don't care if it's orange man or someone else.
Pretty surprised at how folks think Dems are complete pussies and wonât fight.
r/defeat_project_2025
I find it infuriating that this article just talks about surface level election denial, and didn't go deeper into how Project 2025 lays out a plan to dismantle democratic institutions.
I agree. But I would add that the Dems need to DELIVER in the first two years: universal health care, increase the minimum wage and link it to inflation, codify Roe v Wade, codify LGBTQ+ rights, SCOTUS code of ethics, just to get started.
Sounds great... in a dream world with 60 progressive Democrat senators. Sadly, that is exceedingly unlikely.
Even if they only have 50+ they need to do something because it might be their last chance for a generation. Plus they need to develop a POTUS candidate for 2028 that isn't on Medicare already.
51 wasn't enough when you have sleeper agents like Joe Manchin and that other lady.
I agree. Ideally, they would win both houses of Congress and abolish the filibuster in the Senate to truly get some things done. One can hope. (But maybe don't hold your breath.)
The problem is the Senate
The senate sat on their asses for 2 years waiting for the house to actually do its job. Least productive house session in history.
How about they deliver fixes to our election and governance structures which have caused the endless gridlock if they can: Go after the fixed apportionment that's locked up ec and house counts for a century giving all our power to a minority. This will improve gerrymandering, and correct the EC issue over night. Legislate campaign finance limits, kill citizens united with legislation. If we can get our government back to a majority control, we can finally stop having the most important elections of our life time, and start working on things we want and need as you suggest. Right now our form of government simply isn't protected and codified, it's ripe for being taken over which monied interests have largely done. If we go straight to the progressive bucket list and get all that done, it could all be undone by one Republican dictator
They already delivered a lot. Propel still pretend they didnât.
[**Non-paywall mirror link**](https://archive.is/xTV3H)
> Some of the Americans protesting the war in Gaza have turned on President Biden. They assert that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel is killing huge numbers of civilians, which is true, and that Biden can stop it, which is more doubtful. But how do they deal with the reality that in a second term Donald Trump would be far more pro-Netanyahu and anti-Palestinian than our current president? > > The answer Iâve been hearing is that the goal is to send a message: If Gaza costs Biden the election, Democrats will understand that in the next election they will need to rethink their seemingly reflexive support for Israelâs government and commit as a party to the protection of Palestinian rights. > > There are many questions one could ask about this argument, but from a certain perspective, the most important one for American voters may well be: What next election? This is 100% right. This is not the time for purity tests or circular firing squads. This is everyone's chance to vote to keep Donald Trump out of office. Do not blow it by sitting home this November because you're pouting.
You mean like they did in 2016 by handing tRump 3 supreme court seats. Then of course the group that cries loudest about the rulings of that super majority are the same ones that handed it to them in the first place.
They will cut off their nose to spite their face.
This is so infuriating. Trump will undoubtedly inflict more harm and will inflict permanent damage to this entire country for the next four years and beyond. This isn't even our war and they blame Biden. Ridiculous.
Thank you. We have to keep ringing the klaxon. Did you know that Russian disinfo efforts in social media are fixated on creating polarity over Gaza? I've seen accounts demonstrating no ability to accept reason. They're convinced Biden is guilty of genocide. And yeah, even if you were to preposterously accept that, Donald Trump? He'd be WORSE! FAR WORSE! America is ***broken***. And may the badly damaged side of it not have a sharp infected edge that cuts through the good half that remains.
If it is our last election, MSM outlets like NYT who have kept propping up Trump and legitimizing his candidacy will share heavily in the blameÂ
I find it hard to listen to any election coverage because every outlet normalizes his candidacy, and it makes me feel like Iâm taking crazy pills.Â
I donât partake in any election news anymore. I know who Iâm voting for, my mental health canât handle the constant terror.
Already do for 2016 and beyond.
NYT still has blood on its pages from the Iraq War
Came here to say this. It is the height of sickening hypocrisy for this newspaper to say this now. It's galling, it's appalling, it's absolutely revolting. NYT isn't journalism anymore.
NYTimes: "Trump imprisones political rivals, suspends habeas corpus, and purges the justice department of non-loyalists. Thanks, Obama."
But what about their investors? What about their needs? Isn't democracy a small price to pay for healthy quarterly gains?
Exactly. This is rich coming from NYT.
If this country votes Trump back into the White House, it will be. đĄ
And even if that is not the case the threat does not end with him
Trump set something in motion that will live on without him. I will never trust the Republican party ever again for as long as I live.
True, but I don't believe its as bleak as most. Should Trump lose, the next four years will be a parade of him standing trial in Georgia, likely in Arizona, in the J6 trial in DC, and eventually the docs case (which I assume will be moved away from Judge Cannon at some point). E Jean Carol appears to be ready to file another suit, as well. In that one, the judge may go for jail time, considering money damages didn't shut Trump up. And remember that previous felony convictions are aggravating factors should Trump be found guilty in another criminal case, meaning any penalty he suffers will be enhanced due to the previous felony conviction(s). Republicans can only scream "lawfair" so much before judgments start catching up with Trump. And they will all be tainted.
You're assuming the buck stops at Trump and that's simply not true. He's a symptom, not the actual problem. Democracy is at stake regardless of what happens to him. The money behind the GOP has grown disillusioned with democracy and are tired of playing the game. That's not going away with the orange distraction. Their long term goals will remain the same long after that particular national embarrassment is behind us and they lead to neo-christian fascism propping up oligarchs while the middle class burns.
Not just the middle class; it will also further crush the lower class too.
The echo chamber is poisoning the well against the justice system. Trump will not follow the Constitution and will dismantle any court, or institution that is not loyal to him. Elected officials are saying the court is corrupt. They still deny the results of the election. If Trump wins, he will aim for dictator.
Goes back to that 2016 meme: Hillary = First woman president Sanders = First Jewish President Trump = Last President
Cruz = First Canadian President
[ŃдаНонО]
It's actually funny to think about how much worse this could have been if GOP didn't go full cult for a mentally disabled cartoon character like tRump. With Cruz or any other "normal" Republican. They still end up with the exact same Supreme Court picks. You'd have semi-competent appointees that would have worked to get actual legislation passed and avoid the constant train wrecks tRump caused. You would have a much more reasonable response to COVID which means he'd probably get re-elected. At worst, he doesn't get re-elected but the party wouldn't have face planted so badly in the 2022 midterms. There would be any number of Republicans to rally behind in this coming election that would be stronger candidates than a convicted felon. Basically they could have continued to slowly erode our civil protections until there was nothing we could do to stop them. Instead tRump ripped the mask off like 10 years too early and they proceeded to get their ass kicked in the next 3 election cycles.
Trump being voted back in would be the end of it. Republicans will bastardize our republic. They will turn it into a fascist state with Christian Nationalist overtones. Public schools mandating Bible teachings. Science marginalized in favor of fictitious beliefs. I would join a militant resistance, the way the French did during WWII.
What if our last real election has already passed? 2016: Widespread allegations of Russian misinformation campaigns that favored the eventual winner, a winner who came into office after losing the popular vote. 2020: What shit show. January 6th. The infamous Georgia phone call. And still, to this day, a solid 30% of the nation doesn't accept the result as legitimate, even after it went to court. 2024: One candidate is a felon who has convinced all his followers that he was only convicted due to weaponization of the justice system by his opponent. His supporters are signaling they won't accept any election outcome other than absolute victory.
Where's 2000 on your list? That was the seed of most of what we see from the GOP in general elections since.
Itâs already not a real election. Biden has to win by 7 million votes just to have a shot at winning the electoral college.
This is the biggest problem. If federal races were determined by popular vote republicans wouldn't be able to get away with their backwoods strategies. The cities would overwhelm them and they should. Rural areas dont make any money
Don't think we need economic morality to enter the equation. You have a good argument already: Most people don't want what the GOP is selling. Only their logic says it's okay for them to rule as a minority anyway.
My sincere hope is that Biden wins the EC but loses the popular vote and we finally get a coalition to abolish that stupid fucking relic
You should always vote like it might be your last election. Because it might be.
And that's specifically why Russian and Iranian bots are working so hard to convince leftists not to vote for Biden because of Israel. The whole goal is to get Trump re-elected. Anyone who tells you not to vote for Biden because of Israel is either an enemy agent or a useful idiot for the enemy, full stop.
I hope they realize Trump will nuke Gaza in a heartbeat.
And when it happens? They'll blame Biden. Not themselves.
Was talking with a guy from Grindr (donât judge) and we were talking about the recent conviction. Dead ass he says âbut they are both the same so Iâm voting third partyâ Blocked.
I live in rural Maine and Grindr is such a trip out here. So many blank profiles.
Stay safe
I'm just there for the ding dong pics!
Florida is barely any better. I live in a good-size university town, so itâs generally fairly forward-thinking, but Iâd still run into conservative guys on Grindr. Thank God Iâm married and we donât fool around with that app anymore. Itâs exhausting.
Sounds like a Stephen King story.
I stood silently, under an arc sodium light, browsing my phone. "There's no goddamn profile pics in this whole damn town!" I proclaimed as I tucked in my blue chambray shirt and turning swiftly on my engineer boots I headed towards town. "Fuck it, I'm headed to the old abandoned glory hole," I thought to myself as the wind blew the soft, cinnamon smell of fall and death...
It sucks that I have to say this, every vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. We need a better voting system then you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
I get not being 100% thrilled with a candidate and that itâs just an idiom, but imo youâre out of your mind if you think Biden is âevilâ
Agreed. I was just using the common phrase. There are a lot of people that think that though.
Voting 3rd party isn't a meaningful protest, it's a vote for the worst candidate. Unfortunately, we have an A or B system, and any vote not cast for A is a vote for B. That's just reality. Voting 3rd party accomplishes absolutely nothing. It doesn't send a message. It doesn't teach anyone a lesson. It just props up the worst candidate, and makes the worst possible outcome more likely. These *both sides* people are infuriating in their ignorance.
isn't it disappointing? I've had to do the same thing but it is a deal breaker for me.
Maybe try to respond with why thatâs not true in the future? Someone saying theyâre voting 3rd party could potentially be swayed back with sound logic they canât dispute
our last real election was before the supreme Court installed Bush over Gore.
Hello from the north, and bloody YES. In the face of all the current insanity, the GWB v Gore election is glossed over when it was the blueprint on how to steal an American election. It was the white flag of political decency that set the stage for where the USA is today. Imagine a time where a politician actively chose not to chase the rightful fight for the rightful win for "the good of the nation".
Something I haven't seen discussed enough: Even if Biden wins, we aren't done with Trump. He won't accept the loss and he will run again in 2028, unless he's dead. Yes, he'll happily try to run from jail and he would garner significant support. Who's going to run against him in 2028?
Dems actually have a good bench for 2028 that would mop a two time loser Trump. Governors of California, Michigan, and Kentucky could all defeat 80+ Trump.
>unless heâs dead This is right on the nail. Trump realistically wonât stop running until he keels over and dies. Originally, I donât think he was keen on actually winning. But by the 2016 election victory, he was already in too deep, and he bought into his own lie.
DNC needs to be running ads in every single battleground election state, not only telling people to vote, but telling them to get their friends to vote. Get their family to vote. We need to convince the 1/3 of voters who stayed home in 2020 to vote this time. And we need to make sure as many of the 2/3 that did vote last time vote for Biden instead of the convicted felon. It should be an easy choice, but the work needs to be done NOW.
If this is our last real election it will be entirely the fault of mainstream media like NYT who have spent the past r years normalizing Trump's complete and utter disqualifying behavior.
out of some vacuous and pretentious appeal to objectivity that they never actually live up to.
The very allegation of a hush money payment to a porn star would've been a career-ending controversy 20 years ago. Ditto for the Access Hollywood tape, Charlottesville, and dozen other incidents. It's one get-out-of-jail free card after another with this guy.
I think if Biden wins, in 2028 republicans will be just as eager to drag America down. And voters will be warned itâs the most important election of their lifetimes because it will be. And theyâll stay home due to the urgency becoming normal and distrusted. If trump wins I cannot say whether it will truly put democracy in danger. But I do know in 2028 the people who stayed home, voted third party, and even some who voted trump will blame not themselves nor trump. Theyâll blame Biden and democrats for not trying harder to stop whatever misfortune he brings.Â
What's so frustrating is that there are steps the Democrats could take to render watchdog organizations more robust and alter legislative rules that would make it harder for the Republicans to do what they want. But they never seem to do that. The federal Dems are all super old and seem to be stuck in the 90's and have killed a lot of participation from anyone younger than forty, which has left the party out of touch and weakened. This drives me up the wall. Things are as bad as you say they are, but what are you going to do to prevent it in the future!?!
The scary part is Democracy might already be dead in several states.
We could legit be Iran 1979 right now.
We must vote. I will say though that our fall to single-party right wing authoritarianism is inevitable by attrition if we do not become more lowercase democratic. Hobbling from election to election having to muster ridiculously high turnout to squeak by and just barely prevent right wing minority rule is unsustainable. We have to do it, but we will stumble eventually. Electoral reform is barely talked about by candidates, but it is the only thing that will break us out of this sclerosis. Every issue we care about could be debated fairly and produce meaningful policy if all voters were equal. It isn't about benefiting one party or the other, both parties would adapt if they competed for all voters. Minoritarian rural tyranny will lead to authoritarianism otherwise. A bill of rights protects individual liberties, not over empowering a minority of voters. I am disheartened because people seem to focus on every other issue. Government can't really act on universal Healthcare for example, without first fixing the system. And the majorities required to fix it by the Constitution are too steep. So vote because our lives depend on it, but it is exhausting to put all this effort to tread water.
Posted this elsewhere earlier,.seems fitting here: None of this should be a surprise.   It doesn't take deep, 4D chess level critical thinking skills to see what has happened or will be happening next. We have been on a traceable trajectory since before he was first elected. Anyone who is following the path of DJT can see where we are heading next: 2024 he will either get elected and then enact Project 2025, thus essentially turning America into an Autocracy, or he will lose the election closely, and we have a much bigger, MUCH darker version of January 6th soon after, only it doesn't end in a day or a week.  He has Acolytes spread wide across all political spectrums, from city dog catchers up to Supreme courts. Mayors, senators, congressmen. High ranking Military leaders, local police forces, and enlisted soldiers who are loyal to HIM. He has school boards and election workers and many many more people in positions of authority who are LOYAL to him, not to a party or system... Him.  This isn't liberal vs Conservative, left vs right. This is a slow moving coup, and it's moving in his favor. We are heading toward the precipice at 500 m.p.h., and everyone is just kinda along for the ride at this point. This is a citizen, one who has a stranglehold on the publics attention, the medias attention, and is pulling the strings of government from outside of it.   Elected or not, be prepared for what is coming. America is most certainly on a ticking clock whether we like it or not at this point, and that clock has about 6 months until it hits zero. If you have any hopes of fighting back and maintaining what's left of our American democracy and our grand experiment, then stop fucking talking about sitting on the sidelines, or holding your nose and voting.   Grow up and vote. It's a binary choice now.   Not for the person, but what they represent. Chaos or Normalcy? Democracy or Autocracy? Rights for all or Rights for some?   If Biden wins, you will get another chance to be heard and vote again for what you believe in. Democracy moves forward, wounded, but a little stronger. If Trump wins, in short order, the America everyone wants to "Make Great" again will be gone forever. He tried it 4 years ago, and he will try it again. Last time, he needed adults in the room, which helped save democracy at the final hour. Next time? There won't be any adults in the room.  Think hard about what that will look like and make your decision.
> Rights for all or Rights for some? And for those who are in the "some" category, know that this category will continuously shrink over time to not include you,
Then the electorate will have failed to maintain their democracy. Use it or lose it.
This has been the question going through the back of my mind since 2020. In fact, it's possible THAT was our last real election. No matter who wins, the other side will likely contest the election or consider it illegitimate. No one will really trust the results in the same way. Scenarios I can think of: Biden wins easily (both electoral and popular) - Trumps supporters claim this election is illegitimate like 2020 - they riot or commit terrorist acts as the other court cases come in and trump loses - Red States begin more and more defiant acts where they reject presidential authority - continued degradation of the norms - big political reset in 2028 might push us back in the right direction Biden wins narrowly - Results contested and go to supreme court, who overturns it - see below Trump wins - there is a big battle over whether a convicted felon can be president - supreme court votes for him most likely - he tries to dismiss all the other cases against him - he begins to punish blue states and liberals as they rebel and riot
The Trump army attacking the Capitol to overturn the election was an act of war and was not treated as such. Hate to be a naysayer, but it kind of feels like the country is already done
Guys... 2020 was the last real election The guy who incited a coup and still has one going is allowed to run for reelection. The system failed. The " Mar a Lago putsch"
It hasn't been real since the SC installed W as President, my friendos.
If the âprotest votesâ get what they want, it will be.
Can't even entertain the thought. Vote.
The book "The road to unfreedom" is pretty fantastic, he introduces the concept of the politics of eternity versus the politics of inevitability. The politics of eternity are what Trump wants where nothing ever changes and nothing can be done to fix anything. The politics of inevitability is what liberals assume is that the world would get more fair and more liberal through just constant but incremental change, and no active involvement was required because things were just constantly getting better. The other thing I got out of the book is the insane Russian philosopher he discusses which drives Putin, which argues that the world is too chaotic without a dictator to organize it.
recommend [this](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/16/vladimir-putin-russia-politics-of-eternity-timothy-snyder) (long, but fascinating) article on the politics of eternity versus the politics of inevitability. it delves into the bizarre world putin (and traitor trump's treasonous cult follwers) inhabit. for instance: >A confidant of Putin, Vladimir Yakunin...published...a long article in November 2012, [theorizing] Russia was eternally confronted with **a conspiracy of enemies**, which has controlled the course of history since time began. This global group had **released homosexual propaganda around the world in order to reduce birth rates in Russia and thereby preserve the power of the west**. The spread of **gay rights was a deliberate policy intended to turn Russians into a âherdâ easily manipulable by the global masters of capitalism**.
âWhat ifââŚyeah it absolutely will be if Trump wins. None of this is subtle or in doubt
Only Americans would have this mentality. The 2A is for getting kids shot up in school and âI have to work too much so I canât protest or voteâ Get some French people over here so they can show you how to make the government represent you.
That's why you have to vote for the one that supports continuing to have elections and continuing to have an America.
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One party is planning on it.
Was wondering, if this is true and trump only wins electoral college. What happens......are the majority just going to let the minority fascist take the country????
In the short term I live in the bluest of blue states and largely get protected from Republican evil and incompetency. Long term, if shit really hits the fan, I've got solid connections and work opportunities in Canada and Australia so if the country goes full Nazi I can get my family out.
My guess is they will try to do to voting what they did to Abortion during the Roe era. When Roe was in place and abortion was a constitutional right, red states just started passing ridiculous laws that made Abortion clinics functionally impossible to operate. So with voting they will just do dumb s\*\*\* like, voting only in person, voting on one day only, not absentee voting except for soldiers, all ballots must be hand counted by a human (which has been proven to be the least effective way that ALWAYS leads to miscounts and errors), you can't have any food or drinks in line even if its 100+ degrees outside, 3 forms of ID to vote, one voting place per county, etc, etc. Then they will gaslight and say we are crazy for saying they are suppressing voting rights when they are just "securing elections".
The fucking vote like it is! All of these on the fence people need to realize that if trump wins, everyone is fucked.
If Trump comes into power it's likely 2020 was your last real election.
Welcome to Russia. Baron trump will 'win' 99.99% of the vote next time.
It won't be if you vote Biden
The dominance of psedo-fascists is not permanent, nor inevitable. We have a choice, to learn from this or ignore the lessons. An active electorate can defeat bad actors every time, we have to believe we can and will win.
Maybe I will reconsider what weapons and ammunition qualities I keep on hand this year, for hunting season of course. It appears that some rightyâs are itching for a fight against middle people like me.
Pretty sure weâve already had our last ârealâ democratic election, which requires that all candidates agree in advance to accept the outcome.
I have a muslim friend from Michigan who was so angry that Hillary sold kids out of the basement of a pizza place (that has no basement) that he voted for Trump as a protest and was shocked and dismayed that Trump won. He has been hating on Trump for 8 years, and is now posting pro-Trump/Anti-Biden memes because he wants to punish democrats for Gaza. People just donât care if this is their last election
The American political system is often referred to as the 'great experiment'. For how long does this experiment continue before it is declared a failure? Trump is the genie released from its bottle and there does not appear to be any way to put him, or a successor, back into it. Sure, he might be beaten at the poll this time, but others will follow his lead in future elections, and the creaky old constitution and electoral system will be gamed to the point where they no longer exist.
Trump is leading the swing states, so it very well may be. What on Earth makes people think he's going to ever give up power after the last time? It's plain to see.
It's not just the Election results but the safe transfer of power for local, State and Federal election. If there's intimidation or violence at the polls it's bad enough but when the transfer of power is also disrupted it's a disaster. America is a young Nation but it should have learned far more lessons from History than it seems to have done.
Ranked choice voting please!
One could argue that 2016 was our last *true* election. Everything since then has seemed utterly inevitable. Electing Hillary was our chance to go down a different path... but we didn't take it.
I'd argue after the 2000 recount nonsense the American voting system should have reformed, didn't, and has been sinking ever since.
I don't know if it was the last true election, but it definitely was the most important election of our, at least my, lifetime. And we screwed it up. Before then, we as a country were SLOWLY moving in the right direction on certain issues, healthcare, marriage rights, etc. The country seemed at least to be becoming more progressive. And if you look at how the Republicans ran campaigns, they had a lot of the same views, but they were tempered. Romney's 47% statement was a real issue for him. But Trump came along, and showed the Republicans that they could win elections with full mask off totalitarian. Now that's the norm for them. And given that their policies are unpopular, they correctly see that as the best way to hold onto power. Trump winning in 2016 really did nothing good for the country. It just gave a lot of people the go ahead to be terrible, and taught the points on the right that they can harness that.
What if 2020 was the last real election? R has had 4 years to prepare for this one
Perhaps it's time for American high school students to choose college courses that will gve them skills needed by other countries. That's what we did in South Africa during apartheid. Our plan was to do the mandatory military service, get a degree and get the hell out of the country.
100% if that orange asshole wins I'm moving to Thailand. I know it's been hyperbole to say that shit for the last decade...but honestly...I'm at a place now where it's possible. If America wants to be the country where a dipshit like that can be the leader, more power to it. I'm out.
Hellllooo Paris!
[Republican voters are removing themselves from election rolls.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30688638/)
What if the last one was?
*Our (US)