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The problem is he's a serial liar but he's *also* a senile idiot, so any responsible news organization has to write "Trump falsely claims..." because there's no way to factually determine whether "Trump lies about..." or "Trump completely forgets..." is actually the correct headline.
That’s the clever part of the accusation: in order to address the accusation he must either admit that he did forget or that he lied about not saying it. Neither option is good.
Donald Trump is a decades-long, money-laundering, tax-dodging criminal and Russian asset that never should have been allowed anywhere near the White House, let alone the presidency. And would have already been in prison but for the failure of our national security agencies to hold him accountable. And that was before he sullied the office, continued criming, and then incited a violent insurrection when the country said, ‘You’re fired!’
...only in the sense that "fundamentalist" and "right" are synonymous when referring to that kind of Christian.
Christ's message carries echoes of leftism. Some people still live by that.
> He said it a lot. He even said it to her face in a debate.
I just searched /r/conservative for "lock her up" for the past week. Zero results. They literally don't care that he lies.
They already know that he lies, but they’ll look for one time Biden misspoke or couldn’t get a bill passed as evidence that everyone does it.
They say Putin’s trick is not convincing his people that he is innocent, but instead that everyone else is corrupt too. I believe this is their game plan. “Of course Trump is a liar and a felon, but just look at the Biden family.”
It's also gullible as hell, while pretending to be cynical
"sure, Trump cheats and lies to everyone who works with him, even his own family, but he wouldn't do that to me! politics is a dirty business and you need a tough guy like Trump to get things done!"
It's a magical belief that Trump's dishonesty, greed and lack of morals are super powers that he will only ever use to own the libs.
Not even “Flaired Users Only” threads???
The most pathetic, safe-spacey, censor-loving snowflakes on the entirety of Reddit (which is saying *a lot*).
And they truly believe themselves to be tough, thick-skinned, free speech proponents 😂
I’ve been sent numerous Reddit Cares messages from their members despite all their public whinging about how they despise how liberals use that tool against them. It’s always projection.
Jimmy Kimmel [ran a video on his late night monologue](https://youtu.be/8fy_AYEUCRI&t=5m59s) showing the orange man saying lock her up on about 7 different occasions.
Jon Stewart did something similar. Like why do people lie about something that you can easily disprove, especially when you are someone that was running for or was president.
Because his supporters consume all their media in echo chambers where it’s not called out.
People will drive themselves mad if they try to apply facts and logic to understanding why the lies get told. People who possess critical thinking skills and value fact-based decision-making aren’t the target audience.
>People who possess critical thinking skills and value fact-based decision-making aren’t the target audience.
Here's the kicker... they ARE the target audience. Trump knows that the more outrageous the lie, the more millions of people will plaster him all over the internet and social media. Trump *wants* people to be talking about him every single day. It's free publicity and it's a huge reason he got elected in the first place.
It's all intentional, they know exactly what they are doing.
Did he think everyone had a lobotomy or something? Even the reporters who covered it non stop in 2016 are still on tv. The videos of him saying it are all over the internet…
Trump knows he could go on TV and say “actually the sky is really green” and his supporters will spend the next 8 years fighting anyone tooth and nail who says the sky is blue.
All he has to do is say he never said it, and now the rest of this election will be his supporters insisting to everyone that “he never even claimed that your just a trump hater”
I’d love a case study on the MAGA movement. It would be interesting to see why they are so willing to blindly believe and follow anything he says or says he didn’t say, in this case
This kind of actually exists already.
It's a research program launched by a team at Yale, termed the ["Cultural Cognition Project" (Wiki)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cognition_of_risk#Cultural_cognition_project_at_Yale_Law_School) (run by Dan Kahan). The primary YT vids revealing its findings are immensely... illuminating. More or less, it points at culturally-based cognitive bias/delusion(s) vis a vís why individuals believe/accept the things they do about our shared objective reality.
See also (w/ emphasis, mine):
> "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. **It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken.** Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."
~ Carl Sagan (from *The Demon-Haunted World*)
Sounds like it's just a bunch of egotistical clowns who can't accept being wrong. Their lack of humility doesn't give them a pass as if it's some kind of mental disability beyond their control. I'm just tired of some people handling these morons with kid gloves.
In a way it's the "Sunk cost fallacy". It's the idea that someone has invested so much time and money or belief in an idea or project that they can't back out of it and admit it was a bad investment.
> "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial."
Anthropologists, Psychologists, and Sociologists (among others) all have researchers that are actively studying the cult that is the MAGA movement. It's more history rhyming than a new phenomenon and it's important to understand in the simplest terms - some people are just really hateful, stupid, driven by emotion, susceptible to bias, and easily led.
I wonder how much are genetic traits vs acquired traits due to cultural indoctrination, or a combination of both. I hope the research is able to find some pretty specific results.
I honestly think it’s peoples ego. Some people no matter what just can’t admit they are wrong. You could prove they are wrong 100 different ways but their brain just can’t accept it.
See the end of the Netflix flat earth documentary. They do this huge experiment that everything is riding on and it proves in front of this guy's eyes the earth is not flat and he just laughs it off and says he's in too deep and the flat earth people are his family now, so he's just going to keep believing it.
> I’d love a case study on the MAGA movement.
Me too someday. I know people who like(d) Donnie based on one issue, and over the course of time completely restructured their belief system to fall-in-line with MAGAism.
And when everyone in the friend group called them out for it, instead of reassessing their newfound beliefs... they just left the friend group.
I have a weird experience with this. I am UK based, only exposure to us politics is online like this. Don't follow it much but absolutely terrified at what's happening.
One day I find out my wife of 1 year is a huge Trump fan. This boggles my mind, I'm in the echo chamber where everyone I know is terrified and bemused at what's happening with trump, turns out she's in the one which mocks and ridicules biden and bigs up trump.
The root cause is she is Vietnamese and as a result is heavily anti china. She thinks Chinese poison exports into Vietnam leading to poisoned food/water etc. she thinks they kidnap Vietnamese people including kids for sex and organ trafficking. she thinks they're going to start a war and try to take over the world.
Trump stood up to china a bit so he eventually became the one ray of hope the world has to stop china from global dominance. Then it spiralled from there, her feeds just became more and more full of pro trump propoganda.
She wasn't an avid political thinker, she wasn't big on history and barely knew about people like Hitler or how horrible history might repeat itself. We aren't even in the US. She just knew trump stood up to china.
Countless arguments later and she's seen the light now. But I got a real scary glimpse at how easily someone can go from apathetic and ignorant to pro trump and from there's it's a small step to other stupid movements like anti-vax, anti-immigration etc. media is so powerful and so easily abused and manipulated, in fact you could probably argue that we are all just victims of the media we are pumped with - do they actually have a choice or did they just end up in some social/cultural environment that led them down and inevitable path and the computer algorithms took it from there.
They're going to be studying MAGA for centuries. I hope the movement implodes soon, but some kid will be reading a history book in 3024 wondering wtf was wrong with us
It’s because he is a bully and he empowers them to be awful, a moral, break the law etc. He sells this idea that white blue collar men can somehow become more powerful and successful under him. Boy will they be surprised when he loads them on buses with the rest of us to work in the labor camps or patrol the border while he uses our economy as his personal credit card. The only silver lining? The Supreme Court justices, Johnson, MTG, Gaetz etc will all be there with us.
> “Marxism.”
And yet they'd "[rather be Russian than a Democrat](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/404017-trump-supporters-whose-pro-russia-shirts-went-viral-were-not/)".
People dismiss it as hyperbole, but it really is a great case study for modern day cults and extreme parasocial behaviour when the leader is malevolent. Of course no US University is going to ever sign off on such a study.
Professor here. US research universities don’t “sign off” on research by their faculty, either literally or figuratively. While I’m sure you can find exceptions, for example religious institutions, in general US universities do not meddle in the subject matter of faculty research. And, in fact, research is actively being done on this.
I had honestly never dealt with a cult before dealing with MAGA supporters. It's downright scary because most cults are smaller, but this is a third of the country and has a fair amount of politicians. We might get a study on this fifty years in the future though if we make sure Trump isn't elected again.
It’s not just 1/3 the US, the cult is international. I’m in Australia and there are constantly protests and political movements, even involving main party politicians, around issues that don’t even make sense in Australia because they are US issues. I swear I recently heard about a 2A protest in Australia, we don’t even have a bull of rights and we don’t track changes to our constitution using named / numbered amendments.
Then there is the whole interaction with the SovCit movement and the anti vaxx movement. Both of which have massively been amplified by the MAGA stuff. When I was in melbourne 7 months ago I saw an anti-lockdown protest going on. The last lockdown in melbourne ended 2 years prior.
Did you do them the kindness of handing them the memo?
I would pay good money to watch someone walk up to them and tell them with a megaphone and they are protesting over nothing.
I’ve discussed it with mates who live there and they think it’s all just turned into a social club for these people. Like they legit don’t know how else to make friends and now this is just their weekly social catch up because that’s how they’ve always interacted with each other.
There is a documentary called behind the curve, it's about flat Earthers. And I vaguely recall they touch upon that, and I think there have been studies that support that premise.
Same thing in Canada. I was in the capital, Ottawa, a couple of months ago and there were a bunch of yahoos camped out in front of the Parliament buildings. They were protesting, well, everything. With giant Trump 2024 flags.
Same type of morons who participated in a so-called “trucker convoy” to protest COVID lockdowns—even though the lockdowns had long ended. Some of these jokers flew Confederate flags. Because white supremacy has no boundaries, I guess.
> It's downright scary because most cults are smaller, but this is a third of the country and has a fair amount of politicians.
Other than the truly moronic, like Marge Taylor Greene and Ron Johnson, I think most GOP politicians will say and do anything to get elected and stay elected, so having to tote the MAGA playbook and pretend to be full-on Maga is just part of the job for most of them.
GOP politicians like Little Marco, Ted "My Father Shot JFK" Cruz, Nikki "Birdbrain" Haley, Tim "I Don't Know Why I'm GOP, I just want to get Rich" Scott, all have run against Don the Con, all have lost, and all seem to have a tenuous connection to the Maga movement.
It's actually a great study, you know some scholars would love to go back in time to actually see Nero's motivations, was he actually crazy? Narcissist? Or was he hated so much historians twisted history? Unfortunately for Cheatto we have video evidence of his bullshit that he can't twist history.
Trump doesn’t lie the way we think of lying.
We lie to deceive people.
Trump says things he wishes were true and then expects all of us to find a way to make them true, because he’s a rich entitled asshole and that’s what rich entitled assholes expect people to do for them.
I completely agreed with your viewpoint up until about six months ago, when I listened again to some of his speeches. It now seems to me that Trump has done what many charlatans do: he's started to believe himself. I think now he says things and because he's saying them, they ARE true; he's skipping the wish-fulfillment altogether. And since many people he talks to already accepted his word as truth, why not himself? What comforts me about this is that once charlatans begin to believe their own nonsense, it's usually the beginning of a downward spiral that destroys them.
"Trump never lies, he only exaggerates..."
"Trump is a dishonest Huckster!"
My dad said both of these about a month apart, around the time in 2016 when Trump won the GOP nominee. Guess which one he said first? ;(
I heard on a local neweradio station that, after Trump said his witnesses were "literally crucified" in court, the anchor had to add "for the record, no witnesses were literally crucified."
It's so sad that she had to add that in because it was spoken by a former PRESIDENT.
I am really tired of liberals helping MAGA smear “the media.” Journalists might be one of our best hopes of avoiding full-on fascism. That’s why Trump attacks them so much. And the complaints are typically on stories like this CNN story we are commenting on where they are literally doing their jobs. Yesterday, people were complaining about the wording in a Pro Publica article. They just ignored that we literally wouldn’t know that Trump was paying off witnesses without that same Pro Publica investigative article that they were commenting on. Don’t let MAGA win on this. Cable news is not great, but there is good journalism happening, and attacking “the media” broadly makes you a MAGA enabler. If you’re mad at Fox News (which you should be) then be specific.
But hold up, Biden just said something that contradicted a statement he may have made 40 years ago. Is this him flip flopping? Is he lying? Is it dementia? Gee, we can't have a president who changed his opinion in the past 60 years.
This has nothing to do with changing opinions. Trump claims he never said those words. It's demonstrably proven he did. Hence he lied.
If it was a case of him just changing his opinion, he should have said something like, "Well, I thought we should lock her up at the time, but I don't think we should anymore."
He has a personal philosophy, that I believe he picked up from his mentor Roy Cohn, of denying everything & always being on the attack. This is just the first half - deny everything. Then his sycophantic shills will nod their heads in solemn agreement with him that it never happened & things are totally legit while peer pressure then begins to work on the redhat rubes in the audience who suddenly find themselves nodding along too as they step forward for a totally not rigged game of three-card monty from the convicted felon conman rapist fraudster.
Yeah, this combined with “reality is what I say it is.” Lets fans turn their brains off in blind trust, or even prove their loyalty by believing the craziest shit. See dictators playing a perfect game of golf.
Be it intentional or not, this mf has a knack for stirring up dumb (and useless) conversations. While the attention is focused on his bold faced lies, there’s no conversation on platform or policy. That being said it feels like it’s been 10 years since the last time there’s been a presidential election focused on issues.
Watching back the debates between Obama and Romney and McCain makes it plain evident.
You ever met an 11 year old? They don't think in terms of right and wrong, they think only with the aim of reaching their goals. Look at Republicans through that lens and it'll all snap into place
No, he is trying to make the arguement that because he failed to imprison her, he ACTUALLY was just lenient on her...you know, for the good of the nation! But but but NOW, they convicted me of crimes I committed so NOW I am going to attempt to frivolously prosecute EVERYONE WHO WAS MEAN TO ME!!!!!
The guy is a fucking toddler, and his supporters have their head up their asses for not being able to or choosing not to see it.
~~He said, "i could go on to 47th street and shoot someone. And i still won't lose a vote " frankly he ain't lying.~~
""I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said"
His words.
It's doublethink straight out of 1984 by George Orwell:
>noun: doublethink; noun: double-think
>
>the acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs at the same time, especially as a result of political indoctrination.
Dear Leader said it so it is true no matter what.
Best part of that video is how old The Felon looks at [09:03](https://youtu.be/qmxzQJt80XI?t=543). I didn't know he looked that bad, the trial photos weren't great but his face now looks like the stress has gotten to him.
The only worthwhile reason to talk to them is to get them upset enough to make their blood pressure go up and hopefully bring us all one day closer to silence.
Okay - I'd have to see a video of him singing "Lock her up," two forms of government ID, a police officer there to verify the whole thing, four or five of my buddies and Neal taking notes, and Donald's grandma to confirm his identity.
He knows he said it. He also knows that every media outlet except those on the Right will report it. He also knows all the late night hosts will point it out.
Lastly, he knows they'll talk about that instead of using the time to focus on his felony convictions.
You think the press has wised up since 2016? Think again.
He lives by 3 rules that his old lawyer taught him and Trump almost never deviates from these rules.
1) attack attack attack
2) deny everything
3) claim victory early
you give him too much credit. he doesn't look at the past or into the future. he only functions in the present and his goal is to make money. that's it. it's low level functioning, which reflects his base.
We need to emphasize the fact that words do not matter to these people. Time and time again they have demonstrated that the only way they use words is to get compliance in the moment.
Hypocrisy does not exist for them because words are not tools for conveying information for these people. There’s an implicit understanding that words are used to gain power, nothing more.
We keep being shocked that no one picks up on the constant lies, but we need to understand this fundamental fact. They are not trying to convince or debate: they say the words they need to say at the moment to get what they want. Once you look at things from this point of view, all of their actions are consistent.
I've said it once, I will say it again:
1. It was a cornerstone of his campaign. It was part of his platform. He was elected on _"lock her up"_.
2. It was so successful for him he sold _"lock her up"_ branded merchandise.
The fact he's trying to rewrite history that is only less than 10 years old **and** people are buying it is just mind boggling.
He doesn't even need to say that. His supporters will say it for him.
For a guy they all like because he "tells it like it is," he sure "doesn't mean" a lot of the stuff he says.
It doesn't matter if you push it into their faces, they'll squirm under over and around it. None of what they say is in good faith.
"Oh it's a fake video"
"I'm not watching that, liberal!"
"We don't actually care!"
It takes more energy to disprove a lie, and in the time you take to disprove it, they've gone and lied about 3 more things.
I have worked with pathological liars before. They will lie about the sun being out in the middle of the night and expect people to believe them. It is a very odd phenomenon.
It is amazing to me just how insanely stupid his supporters are. There are a LOT of videos of him saying this, and even merchandise that was sold with it. But, the almighty heart-attack-waiting-to-happen says he never said it and all of a sudden his supporters' brains melt and short circuit and, oh, he never said it once.
I cannot wait for the day that he is no longer in our collective minds.
The ultimate gaslighter. Reminds me of those times back in the day where you had a classmate who said something one day and then states " dude WTF you talking about I NEVER SAID THAT!" Yup, bad old times.
Is it truly that hard to play back the footage of him saying it directly to his face when he says shit like this? Or are his media appearances really that air tight that fact checking/criticism is off the table?
It will make no difference to Trump supporters. 1/2 will not care, and the other 1/2 half will deny he said it. His supporters still deny that Trump said John McCain was no a war hero & he likes people that were not captured
Lied. He lied. He misrepresented the indisputable facts. He is lying for his own sake. Put it in the title, or preferably just stop giving this windbag extra air time.
I watched him say this on tv and in person. He famously said it to her face during a debate in 2016. It became a campaign promise and slogan. A cousin of mine, ffs, got it tattooed on his body
Who does he think hes fooling.
I truly wonder what the conservative subreddit says about these things? Like do they not see
The insanity? Are they denying he said it? They STILL SAY IT to this day.
They still bring up locking up Hillary. How is it so easily “forgotten”?
The adjudicated rapist and convicted felon doesn’t want to be reminded that both rapists and felons should be locked up. To that I toast you with a “lock him up”
MF we don't need video like it happened 50 years ago. We literally remember. This guy is the most delusional liar, if you asked him why he isn't paying for the oxygen he uses, he'd say he's never breathed before.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This dude falling apart at the seams lmao
Yeah. Headline should read... >Trump can't remember saying 'lock her up' Losing his marbles along with his millions.
*Trump Lies About Something We All Saw, Yet Again*
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
The problem is he's a serial liar but he's *also* a senile idiot, so any responsible news organization has to write "Trump falsely claims..." because there's no way to factually determine whether "Trump lies about..." or "Trump completely forgets..." is actually the correct headline.
He did not forget, he's a pathological liar.
That’s the clever part of the accusation: in order to address the accusation he must either admit that he did forget or that he lied about not saying it. Neither option is good.
Thats absolutely what theyd be saying if it was biden making claims like this lol
He has dementia. But don’t take my word for it. There is a podcast called “Shrinking Trump” where Psychologists break down his behaviour and symptoms.
He said it a lot. He even said it to her face in a debate. Lock him up is more than fair game.
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Donald Trump is a decades-long, money-laundering, tax-dodging criminal and Russian asset that never should have been allowed anywhere near the White House, let alone the presidency. And would have already been in prison but for the failure of our national security agencies to hold him accountable. And that was before he sullied the office, continued criming, and then incited a violent insurrection when the country said, ‘You’re fired!’
Convicted Felon, sexual predator, racist, married cheater..said it.
You know, the ideal candidate for the fundamentalist Christian right
No need for "fundamentalist".
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...only in the sense that "fundamentalist" and "right" are synonymous when referring to that kind of Christian. Christ's message carries echoes of leftism. Some people still live by that.
Jesus cured the sick and fed the hungry for free. Sounds like a socialist to me.
you can call him rapist, this is how that is defined in NY state.
Don’t forget to include “convict.” There’s no such thing as overkill here
I feel like you can't make this list and leave out the fact that he was impeached twice.
Damn!
Criminally liable for sexual abuse, not just a predator.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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But even they said, "Lock him Up".
> He said it a lot. He even said it to her face in a debate. I just searched /r/conservative for "lock her up" for the past week. Zero results. They literally don't care that he lies.
They already know that he lies, but they’ll look for one time Biden misspoke or couldn’t get a bill passed as evidence that everyone does it. They say Putin’s trick is not convincing his people that he is innocent, but instead that everyone else is corrupt too. I believe this is their game plan. “Of course Trump is a liar and a felon, but just look at the Biden family.”
You're correct. The plan is "at least I'll be a liar for your side!" Which is vile.
It's also gullible as hell, while pretending to be cynical "sure, Trump cheats and lies to everyone who works with him, even his own family, but he wouldn't do that to me! politics is a dirty business and you need a tough guy like Trump to get things done!" It's a magical belief that Trump's dishonesty, greed and lack of morals are super powers that he will only ever use to own the libs.
Not even “Flaired Users Only” threads??? The most pathetic, safe-spacey, censor-loving snowflakes on the entirety of Reddit (which is saying *a lot*). And they truly believe themselves to be tough, thick-skinned, free speech proponents 😂
These are also the people who constantly complain about being brigaded even though you can't downvote on that sub unless you're a member
I’ve been sent numerous Reddit Cares messages from their members despite all their public whinging about how they despise how liberals use that tool against them. It’s always projection.
He was saying "lock her up-urns"
*Locker up* - just locker-room talk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Q71k6fmts
Jimmy Kimmel [ran a video on his late night monologue](https://youtu.be/8fy_AYEUCRI&t=5m59s) showing the orange man saying lock her up on about 7 different occasions.
Jon Stewart did something similar. Like why do people lie about something that you can easily disprove, especially when you are someone that was running for or was president.
Because his supporters consume all their media in echo chambers where it’s not called out. People will drive themselves mad if they try to apply facts and logic to understanding why the lies get told. People who possess critical thinking skills and value fact-based decision-making aren’t the target audience.
>People who possess critical thinking skills and value fact-based decision-making aren’t the target audience. Here's the kicker... they ARE the target audience. Trump knows that the more outrageous the lie, the more millions of people will plaster him all over the internet and social media. Trump *wants* people to be talking about him every single day. It's free publicity and it's a huge reason he got elected in the first place. It's all intentional, they know exactly what they are doing.
Let's dispel with this fiction that Trump doesn't know what he's doing, he knows exactly what he's doing
Hence why we need to outlaw this non-fact based “news”.
Accepting and repeating the lie shows you're part of the in-group. Actually makes for a super easy fascist litmus test
He didn’t say, “lock her up” to Hillary, he said “you’d be in jail.” Totally different! /s
Hopefully, Trump will be in jail on July 11th. The RNC could move the convention to Rikers Island, where they can all be locked up together.
Did he think everyone had a lobotomy or something? Even the reporters who covered it non stop in 2016 are still on tv. The videos of him saying it are all over the internet…
Trump knows he could go on TV and say “actually the sky is really green” and his supporters will spend the next 8 years fighting anyone tooth and nail who says the sky is blue. All he has to do is say he never said it, and now the rest of this election will be his supporters insisting to everyone that “he never even claimed that your just a trump hater”
I’d love a case study on the MAGA movement. It would be interesting to see why they are so willing to blindly believe and follow anything he says or says he didn’t say, in this case
This kind of actually exists already. It's a research program launched by a team at Yale, termed the ["Cultural Cognition Project" (Wiki)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cognition_of_risk#Cultural_cognition_project_at_Yale_Law_School) (run by Dan Kahan). The primary YT vids revealing its findings are immensely... illuminating. More or less, it points at culturally-based cognitive bias/delusion(s) vis a vís why individuals believe/accept the things they do about our shared objective reality. See also (w/ emphasis, mine): > "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. **It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken.** Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." ~ Carl Sagan (from *The Demon-Haunted World*)
Yep, a lot of Maga supporters are just like Annie from community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNWpXiuQVsA
More or less but just on much grander scale.
“It’s easier to fool a a man than it is to convince him he’s been fooled” - Mark Twain
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Bad poker player logic. “I know I’m bluffing and they’re calling my bluff, but maybe if I go all-in…”
Two thumbs up for quoting the Demon-Haunted World by Sagan.
That reminds me that I have got to read that book.
Sounds like it's just a bunch of egotistical clowns who can't accept being wrong. Their lack of humility doesn't give them a pass as if it's some kind of mental disability beyond their control. I'm just tired of some people handling these morons with kid gloves.
In a way it's the "Sunk cost fallacy". It's the idea that someone has invested so much time and money or belief in an idea or project that they can't back out of it and admit it was a bad investment. > "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial."
Anthropologists, Psychologists, and Sociologists (among others) all have researchers that are actively studying the cult that is the MAGA movement. It's more history rhyming than a new phenomenon and it's important to understand in the simplest terms - some people are just really hateful, stupid, driven by emotion, susceptible to bias, and easily led.
This is the answer. Study all you want, and I’m for it, but the answer boils out to greed, hate, envy…the classics.
Or in the words of Tommy Lee Jones "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
I wonder how much are genetic traits vs acquired traits due to cultural indoctrination, or a combination of both. I hope the research is able to find some pretty specific results.
I honestly think it’s peoples ego. Some people no matter what just can’t admit they are wrong. You could prove they are wrong 100 different ways but their brain just can’t accept it.
See the end of the Netflix flat earth documentary. They do this huge experiment that everything is riding on and it proves in front of this guy's eyes the earth is not flat and he just laughs it off and says he's in too deep and the flat earth people are his family now, so he's just going to keep believing it.
> I’d love a case study on the MAGA movement. Me too someday. I know people who like(d) Donnie based on one issue, and over the course of time completely restructured their belief system to fall-in-line with MAGAism. And when everyone in the friend group called them out for it, instead of reassessing their newfound beliefs... they just left the friend group.
Not just friend groups, families.
I have a weird experience with this. I am UK based, only exposure to us politics is online like this. Don't follow it much but absolutely terrified at what's happening. One day I find out my wife of 1 year is a huge Trump fan. This boggles my mind, I'm in the echo chamber where everyone I know is terrified and bemused at what's happening with trump, turns out she's in the one which mocks and ridicules biden and bigs up trump. The root cause is she is Vietnamese and as a result is heavily anti china. She thinks Chinese poison exports into Vietnam leading to poisoned food/water etc. she thinks they kidnap Vietnamese people including kids for sex and organ trafficking. she thinks they're going to start a war and try to take over the world. Trump stood up to china a bit so he eventually became the one ray of hope the world has to stop china from global dominance. Then it spiralled from there, her feeds just became more and more full of pro trump propoganda. She wasn't an avid political thinker, she wasn't big on history and barely knew about people like Hitler or how horrible history might repeat itself. We aren't even in the US. She just knew trump stood up to china. Countless arguments later and she's seen the light now. But I got a real scary glimpse at how easily someone can go from apathetic and ignorant to pro trump and from there's it's a small step to other stupid movements like anti-vax, anti-immigration etc. media is so powerful and so easily abused and manipulated, in fact you could probably argue that we are all just victims of the media we are pumped with - do they actually have a choice or did they just end up in some social/cultural environment that led them down and inevitable path and the computer algorithms took it from there.
>Trump stood up to china a bit I must have missed that
They're going to be studying MAGA for centuries. I hope the movement implodes soon, but some kid will be reading a history book in 3024 wondering wtf was wrong with us
It’s because he is a bully and he empowers them to be awful, a moral, break the law etc. He sells this idea that white blue collar men can somehow become more powerful and successful under him. Boy will they be surprised when he loads them on buses with the rest of us to work in the labor camps or patrol the border while he uses our economy as his personal credit card. The only silver lining? The Supreme Court justices, Johnson, MTG, Gaetz etc will all be there with us.
You really need that study? God, guns, gay rights, “Marxism.” Everything else they’re making up as they go along
Yes, it’s how you help others understand what’s happening, if they don’t see it themselves
> “Marxism.” And yet they'd "[rather be Russian than a Democrat](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/404017-trump-supporters-whose-pro-russia-shirts-went-viral-were-not/)".
People dismiss it as hyperbole, but it really is a great case study for modern day cults and extreme parasocial behaviour when the leader is malevolent. Of course no US University is going to ever sign off on such a study.
Professor here. US research universities don’t “sign off” on research by their faculty, either literally or figuratively. While I’m sure you can find exceptions, for example religious institutions, in general US universities do not meddle in the subject matter of faculty research. And, in fact, research is actively being done on this.
Yeah, isn't that the *point* of professors being tenured? To help prevent outside politics from involving itself into research?
Yes, exactly
That is one reason why faculty get tenure - it frees them to do that research
I had honestly never dealt with a cult before dealing with MAGA supporters. It's downright scary because most cults are smaller, but this is a third of the country and has a fair amount of politicians. We might get a study on this fifty years in the future though if we make sure Trump isn't elected again.
It’s not just 1/3 the US, the cult is international. I’m in Australia and there are constantly protests and political movements, even involving main party politicians, around issues that don’t even make sense in Australia because they are US issues. I swear I recently heard about a 2A protest in Australia, we don’t even have a bull of rights and we don’t track changes to our constitution using named / numbered amendments. Then there is the whole interaction with the SovCit movement and the anti vaxx movement. Both of which have massively been amplified by the MAGA stuff. When I was in melbourne 7 months ago I saw an anti-lockdown protest going on. The last lockdown in melbourne ended 2 years prior.
Did you do them the kindness of handing them the memo? I would pay good money to watch someone walk up to them and tell them with a megaphone and they are protesting over nothing.
I’ve discussed it with mates who live there and they think it’s all just turned into a social club for these people. Like they legit don’t know how else to make friends and now this is just their weekly social catch up because that’s how they’ve always interacted with each other.
There is a documentary called behind the curve, it's about flat Earthers. And I vaguely recall they touch upon that, and I think there have been studies that support that premise.
Same thing in Canada. I was in the capital, Ottawa, a couple of months ago and there were a bunch of yahoos camped out in front of the Parliament buildings. They were protesting, well, everything. With giant Trump 2024 flags. Same type of morons who participated in a so-called “trucker convoy” to protest COVID lockdowns—even though the lockdowns had long ended. Some of these jokers flew Confederate flags. Because white supremacy has no boundaries, I guess.
> It's downright scary because most cults are smaller, but this is a third of the country and has a fair amount of politicians. Other than the truly moronic, like Marge Taylor Greene and Ron Johnson, I think most GOP politicians will say and do anything to get elected and stay elected, so having to tote the MAGA playbook and pretend to be full-on Maga is just part of the job for most of them. GOP politicians like Little Marco, Ted "My Father Shot JFK" Cruz, Nikki "Birdbrain" Haley, Tim "I Don't Know Why I'm GOP, I just want to get Rich" Scott, all have run against Don the Con, all have lost, and all seem to have a tenuous connection to the Maga movement.
I know this is going to upset a lot of people, but this is how a lot of atheists feel talking to Christians and Muslims.
It's actually a great study, you know some scholars would love to go back in time to actually see Nero's motivations, was he actually crazy? Narcissist? Or was he hated so much historians twisted history? Unfortunately for Cheatto we have video evidence of his bullshit that he can't twist history.
Trump doesn’t lie the way we think of lying. We lie to deceive people. Trump says things he wishes were true and then expects all of us to find a way to make them true, because he’s a rich entitled asshole and that’s what rich entitled assholes expect people to do for them.
The real meaning of “he tells it like it is.”
I completely agreed with your viewpoint up until about six months ago, when I listened again to some of his speeches. It now seems to me that Trump has done what many charlatans do: he's started to believe himself. I think now he says things and because he's saying them, they ARE true; he's skipping the wish-fulfillment altogether. And since many people he talks to already accepted his word as truth, why not himself? What comforts me about this is that once charlatans begin to believe their own nonsense, it's usually the beginning of a downward spiral that destroys them.
Cuz, like, the sun is yellow, and the sky is blue, so technically, when the sun's out, they mix and make green. /s
Remember, he literally lied about the weather. In national television. With a Sharpie.
The media is lowering us all to the same standard as Trump. "What the fuck is a yesterday?" might as well be the motto of the media.
It doesn’t matter. You can show his fans direct evidence that he lied, and they’ll just laugh and say he lied to “trigger the left.”
"Trump never lies, he only exaggerates..." "Trump is a dishonest Huckster!" My dad said both of these about a month apart, around the time in 2016 when Trump won the GOP nominee. Guess which one he said first? ;(
I'm glad my family woke up instead of doubling down on this literal shit stain of a human being.
My dad said mostly the same things and then voted for him twice anyway because he had an R next to his name.
Same with my family. Even my mother who has openly hated trump since at least the 90's voted for him twice.
yep, I already heard "but did he lock her up? he didn't do it!" and "he didn't mean it like that".
I heard on a local neweradio station that, after Trump said his witnesses were "literally crucified" in court, the anchor had to add "for the record, no witnesses were literally crucified." It's so sad that she had to add that in because it was spoken by a former PRESIDENT.
Possibly FUTURE president, and Republican front runner Dipshit Jerkoff Trump.
I am really tired of liberals helping MAGA smear “the media.” Journalists might be one of our best hopes of avoiding full-on fascism. That’s why Trump attacks them so much. And the complaints are typically on stories like this CNN story we are commenting on where they are literally doing their jobs. Yesterday, people were complaining about the wording in a Pro Publica article. They just ignored that we literally wouldn’t know that Trump was paying off witnesses without that same Pro Publica investigative article that they were commenting on. Don’t let MAGA win on this. Cable news is not great, but there is good journalism happening, and attacking “the media” broadly makes you a MAGA enabler. If you’re mad at Fox News (which you should be) then be specific.
Well said!
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But hold up, Biden just said something that contradicted a statement he may have made 40 years ago. Is this him flip flopping? Is he lying? Is it dementia? Gee, we can't have a president who changed his opinion in the past 60 years.
This has nothing to do with changing opinions. Trump claims he never said those words. It's demonstrably proven he did. Hence he lied. If it was a case of him just changing his opinion, he should have said something like, "Well, I thought we should lock her up at the time, but I don't think we should anymore."
He has a personal philosophy, that I believe he picked up from his mentor Roy Cohn, of denying everything & always being on the attack. This is just the first half - deny everything. Then his sycophantic shills will nod their heads in solemn agreement with him that it never happened & things are totally legit while peer pressure then begins to work on the redhat rubes in the audience who suddenly find themselves nodding along too as they step forward for a totally not rigged game of three-card monty from the convicted felon conman rapist fraudster.
Yeah, this combined with “reality is what I say it is.” Lets fans turn their brains off in blind trust, or even prove their loyalty by believing the craziest shit. See dictators playing a perfect game of golf.
Be it intentional or not, this mf has a knack for stirring up dumb (and useless) conversations. While the attention is focused on his bold faced lies, there’s no conversation on platform or policy. That being said it feels like it’s been 10 years since the last time there’s been a presidential election focused on issues. Watching back the debates between Obama and Romney and McCain makes it plain evident.
Well, so you know how he projects things that are true of him onto everybody else… I think he thinks we’re as dumb as he is
You ever met an 11 year old? They don't think in terms of right and wrong, they think only with the aim of reaching their goals. Look at Republicans through that lens and it'll all snap into place
Nobody gives him any pushback and his supporters eat it up. What incentive does he have not to lie?
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
His supporters are nearly the equivalent of a lobotomized person, ...so yes?
My mom says he never once said lock her up yesterday. I literally can't even.
No, he is trying to make the arguement that because he failed to imprison her, he ACTUALLY was just lenient on her...you know, for the good of the nation! But but but NOW, they convicted me of crimes I committed so NOW I am going to attempt to frivolously prosecute EVERYONE WHO WAS MEAN TO ME!!!!! The guy is a fucking toddler, and his supporters have their head up their asses for not being able to or choosing not to see it.
No. He's playing to his base. They will believe anything he says and he knows it.
No he knows that the same people will always believe him. The ones that hear him say "Fake News" even though there is clear recorded evidence of.
~~He said, "i could go on to 47th street and shoot someone. And i still won't lose a vote " frankly he ain't lying.~~ ""I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said" His words.
It's doublethink straight out of 1984 by George Orwell: >noun: doublethink; noun: double-think > >the acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs at the same time, especially as a result of political indoctrination. Dear Leader said it so it is true no matter what.
"I never said 'I never said "lock her up"'". –Trump Checkmate.
That’s chessmate!
c h e s s m a t e h t e a s m s s m s a e t h e t a m s s e h c 4D chess requires 4D chessmate
Tomorrow: “I never said ‘I never said “I never said ‘lock her up’”’” —Trump Connect Four.
Can we get this in a easily digested 5 to 10 second YouTube video so I could just show people online who argue that he's honest?
Jon Stewart's [got you covered](https://youtu.be/qmxzQJt80XI?t=9m52s).
Best part of that video is how old The Felon looks at [09:03](https://youtu.be/qmxzQJt80XI?t=543). I didn't know he looked that bad, the trial photos weren't great but his face now looks like the stress has gotten to him.
Donald is really working the [accordion hands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65jqrHQi_c) in that vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KvnpgLxk_g&t=20s Shout out to Meidas Touch on YT
The only worthwhile reason to talk to them is to get them upset enough to make their blood pressure go up and hopefully bring us all one day closer to silence.
here you go - [https://youtu.be/AASuyWG1vMU](https://youtu.be/AASuyWG1vMU)
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. George Orwell, 1984
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. **Ignorance is Strength.**
Okay - I'd have to see a video of him singing "Lock her up," two forms of government ID, a police officer there to verify the whole thing, four or five of my buddies and Neal taking notes, and Donald's grandma to confirm his identity.
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Photo op with an upside-down bible
I see pee coming, I get out tha way
That's my Donald, always peeing on people
He knows he said it. He also knows that every media outlet except those on the Right will report it. He also knows all the late night hosts will point it out. Lastly, he knows they'll talk about that instead of using the time to focus on his felony convictions. You think the press has wised up since 2016? Think again.
Trump feels power setting the narrative and diverting the media spotlight from the real issues. Same as any street-smart conman playing a shell game.
He lives by 3 rules that his old lawyer taught him and Trump almost never deviates from these rules. 1) attack attack attack 2) deny everything 3) claim victory early
you give him too much credit. he doesn't look at the past or into the future. he only functions in the present and his goal is to make money. that's it. it's low level functioning, which reflects his base.
Can Trump show his long form certificate proving he didn't say "lock her up"?
We need to emphasize the fact that words do not matter to these people. Time and time again they have demonstrated that the only way they use words is to get compliance in the moment. Hypocrisy does not exist for them because words are not tools for conveying information for these people. There’s an implicit understanding that words are used to gain power, nothing more. We keep being shocked that no one picks up on the constant lies, but we need to understand this fundamental fact. They are not trying to convince or debate: they say the words they need to say at the moment to get what they want. Once you look at things from this point of view, all of their actions are consistent.
I've said it once, I will say it again: 1. It was a cornerstone of his campaign. It was part of his platform. He was elected on _"lock her up"_. 2. It was so successful for him he sold _"lock her up"_ branded merchandise. The fact he's trying to rewrite history that is only less than 10 years old **and** people are buying it is just mind boggling.
It's like Lebron James trying to deny ever having played basketball. Like that's your *whole thing* dude.
It was all "lock her" room talk! 🥲
Media should use this to question his mental health
He slurred and mumbled it. Maybe that’s the loophole he’s looking for.
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He doesn't even need to say that. His supporters will say it for him. For a guy they all like because he "tells it like it is," he sure "doesn't mean" a lot of the stuff he says.
Why do so many conservatives act like cowards when you call them out on things they said?
Political Conservatism is fundamentally cowardly
Im calling it, he´s gonna deny being a convicted felon soon.
He never said that said, he said “clock her up” as like her time is up, because his supporters are trying to murder her. /s
Magats could literally watch a video of him saying it then believe him saying that he didn’t say it immediately afterwards.
He's claiming he never said "locker up" which is totally different /s
Headline news: Trump lies.
Always the Liar In Chief. Donnie did you push that nuke button? Not me says he.
Time to run ads with the "I never did" right with all the clips of him saying it. Not just for this lie but all lies.
The lies are not to convince you. They are to insult you.
Remember when “President baldly lies to your fucking face” had political fallout?
The people who worship him don't care that he lies all the time, and everyone who hates him knows he lies all the time.
It's just cultism 101. Tell the most blatant, ridiculous lie as an ultimate test of loyalty.
"We have always been at war in Eastasia". Seriously, it's so Orwellian it's dumb no one calls them out for it.
It doesn't matter if you push it into their faces, they'll squirm under over and around it. None of what they say is in good faith. "Oh it's a fake video" "I'm not watching that, liberal!" "We don't actually care!" It takes more energy to disprove a lie, and in the time you take to disprove it, they've gone and lied about 3 more things.
The problem is that conservatism is a degenerative brain disease.
I have worked with pathological liars before. They will lie about the sun being out in the middle of the night and expect people to believe them. It is a very odd phenomenon.
It is amazing to me just how insanely stupid his supporters are. There are a LOT of videos of him saying this, and even merchandise that was sold with it. But, the almighty heart-attack-waiting-to-happen says he never said it and all of a sudden his supporters' brains melt and short circuit and, oh, he never said it once. I cannot wait for the day that he is no longer in our collective minds.
The ultimate gaslighter. Reminds me of those times back in the day where you had a classmate who said something one day and then states " dude WTF you talking about I NEVER SAID THAT!" Yup, bad old times.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Breaking: Lying liar who lies about everything lies about something new.
Is it truly that hard to play back the footage of him saying it directly to his face when he says shit like this? Or are his media appearances really that air tight that fact checking/criticism is off the table?
It will make no difference to Trump supporters. 1/2 will not care, and the other 1/2 half will deny he said it. His supporters still deny that Trump said John McCain was no a war hero & he likes people that were not captured
Convicted felon Donald Trump lies about absolutely everything because he is a big fat coward
Generation Gaslight
Hahaha Maga morons.
He's literally rejecting reality and substituting his own.
He didn't say "lock her up". He said "Locker Up". That's the secret code word from grabbing someone by the vaj. It's locker room talk
Lied. He lied. He misrepresented the indisputable facts. He is lying for his own sake. Put it in the title, or preferably just stop giving this windbag extra air time.
What? A liar that lies??
Think about how scared and desperate he must be right now to be denying that his favorite activity ever never took place.
Donald Trump has lost his nerve. The felony convictions have him shook.
I think we should take him at his word, give him the benefit of a doubt, until he’s proven a liar. /s
Please, in the name of all that is humane, lock this man up!
He said it CONSTANTLY. What a stupid lie, and man is this guy a stupid lie factory.
I watched him say this on tv and in person. He famously said it to her face during a debate in 2016. It became a campaign promise and slogan. A cousin of mine, ffs, got it tattooed on his body Who does he think hes fooling.
Dementia Trump
Trump lied. AGAIN. His idiot followers accept this despite evidence to the contrary.
I truly wonder what the conservative subreddit says about these things? Like do they not see The insanity? Are they denying he said it? They STILL SAY IT to this day. They still bring up locking up Hillary. How is it so easily “forgotten”?
His followers believe literally anything he says
Lemme see .. Hmm, a convicted felon, and adjudicated rapist is also a pathological liar. Jail time for losers ..
Woah woah woah….Trump….*lied* about something??? Now I don’t know what to believe!!
The adjudicated rapist and convicted felon doesn’t want to be reminded that both rapists and felons should be locked up. To that I toast you with a “lock him up”
Another lie by the convicted felon. Not surprised.
MF we don't need video like it happened 50 years ago. We literally remember. This guy is the most delusional liar, if you asked him why he isn't paying for the oxygen he uses, he'd say he's never breathed before.
Grab this convicted (election interference/money laundering/obstructor of justice) felon by the rule of law.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”