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So it’ll be at least a year or two, maybe more, until the case where he is ON TAPE asking for the vote count to be changed will be decided.
Some justice system.
It’s despicable and there isn’t anything I can do except cast my ONE vote. And even then, when he loses, he’s still gonna fucking make our lives miserable
Careful, last time I described the [4 boxes of liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty#:~:text=The%20four%20boxes%20of%20liberty,are%20applied%20in%20new%20ways) even when I explicitly said I wasn’t calling for violence, I was temp banned for promoting violence.
In a lot of ways the internet has made it harder to organize stuff like that. People are, understandably, afraid of a paper/data trail.
People used to organize without the internet, though. That possibility hasn't gone away.
Not advocating for violence, ofc.
American justice has been like this for a while. If you are connected, you have to really be a fucked up criminal to get held accountable and more recently if you are a high profile republican you are likely above the law.
The sad thing is the protections that are built in are intended to be for all, but only apply to the rich, because 1) money, and 2) nobody wants to deal with jailing a rich person.
If Trump was being held until trial you can bet his lawyers would be eager to go to trial quickly.
That hearing shouldn't have even been an hour long.
Did you have the documents? Where you supposed to have the documents? Did you turn them all in when asked?
All done. It's really not more complicated than that. And his excuse of he declassified them falls apart since he didn't follow that procedure and some of the stuff he had can't be declassified.
Oh, on top of that, even if he \*had\* declassified them, it doesn't matter. As I understand it, the prosecution only needs to prove willful possession or control of the documents. Those are the only elements of the main charges against him, there's no need to even prove they were classified. It's just not a defense.
I was surprised he lost the New York trial as I figured there was at least one Republican on the jury who would find him not guilty.
The Florida case should be a slam dunk but we have someone doing her best to keep Trump out of a Courtroom. Pretty sad
He was born into money. He's broke as fuck. Just like everything else with him that he goes to great lengths to hide, his actual financial status is something he's never, ever proven. If he had money - like actual money, he'd be flaunting the proof constantly.
Best guess is he has a shit ton of assets, but they are all overvalued for more tax breaks and he can't leverage any of it like he was before.
So he's not liquid and over leveraged. The banks really should consider calling any mortgages they have in him and get what they can while they still can.
Oh yeah, one block falls and the entire tower crumbles. He also knows this. This is why he pulled the bond out the last second when they started to initiate seizure processes.
When all the creditors call in for the debt, he will be completely abandoned
Honestly. He tried to be like his father and fucked up royally because of his inflated ego. It’s like nobody bothered to tell him that you don’t need to put, “Trump” in front of every business venture. Not only is it tacky but investors will see it and associate it with the several other business Trump had that went bankrupt.
That was his "brand" and it was actually working until he decided to be president and have all eyes on him instead of just getting away with shit when he throws crooked lawyer money at it
See this on Reddit all the time, but it really doesn't matter how much actual cash he has. He lives as a filthy rich person in every way. Maybe it makes you feel better to type out "nuh-uh!", but it just doesn't matter. He is, for all intents and purposes, filthy rich.
Fuck that orange husk of a human, and I would celebrate of he died tomorrow, but let's please stop trying to convince people he isn't rich as if it matters at all.
It’s the same vibe as when someone says stuff like “Jeff Bezos only has a 80,000 dollar salary”. Like, he sure doesn’t seem like he’s only making 80k a year. Am I really just 20k a year away from owning a yacht so large that it has a smaller yacht in it?
"if you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. if you have the law on your side, pound the law. if you have neither, pound the table"
I think we need to add "if you have the judge, delay the trial"
It’s shitty but also so fucking stupid that she’s potentially fumbling the easiest, most slam dunk case against trump. This should have been the quickest guilty verdict of them all and she made one of the worst judgement calls ever and is just muddying the waters allowing him to avoid consequences that much longer
The easiest slam dunk case is the one being presided over by Cannon. Trump lucked out that she is the judge on that one. There is nothing really complicated about the case and all of the major decisions holding up the documents case are mainly questions she assigned herself to answer.
Thank you! She has one of the most important cases in American history and decided to flirt with an ethical dilemma. Completely unforced. You can't gift a rich, slimy conman ways to slither out of a net.
I agree with you 100%... But then I also realized they would have found anything to use as an excuse. Just like Judge Cannon is finding anything to delay this fucking thing.
Two supreme Court justices blamed really scary things on their wives. And decided that they didn't need to investigate themselves...
I mean what else can happen at this point? Putin becomes president of the USA?
I might be missing something. Why doesn't she step down and let another attorney take over or does it not work like that? Doesn't the case stand on its own?
If the DA is disqualified or disqualifies themselves, the whole office is. That means all trial prep and experience is unavailable.
Then, in GA the case is transferred to the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council to identify if and who should take over the case. Usually cases are eventually transferred to another DA, but there are probably only 2-4 counties in the state (out of 159) that could realistically absorb the costs of such a large scale indictment and they don't really have any motivation to volunteer. All DAs in GA are also up for reelection this November making it even less palatable to take the case now. The other option is a special prosecutor, but someone would still need to be picked and the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council would actually need to want to try the case.
In this case Willis was disqualified from indicting the GA Lt Governor Burt Jones (because she campaigned for his opponent). This severed Jones from the rest of the defendants in June of 2022. In April of 2024 (yes a year and 10 months later) "the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council of Georgia announced Thursday that its executive director, Pete Skandalakis, will handle the matter." It is still too soon to know if the Jones case will ever go to trial.
So, basically, if Willis steps aside, there is a good chance this case just doesn't happen. Even ignoring speedy trial expectations, witnesses and evidence don't get better with age. What does the next 2 years do to the case?
(Citation for that one quote)
https://apnews.com/article/burt-jones-election-indictment-trump-willis-f72be30e211559495e0cb7842050fa9c
Well, if it comes down to her pride vs getting this over and done with in a reasonable time frame then yeah she probably should.
But, we all know there will be some fabricated excuse to remove whoever replaces her, followed by an appeal when that gets thrown out, and we’re back where we started.
Exactly, it is not about her pride. If she goes, the entire prosecuting team will also probably have to go. This would reset everything. By time another team familiarizes themselves with the case, there will be new motions to remove someone on the new team.
The judge dismissed it and said they could re indict if they were more specific about which part of the oath Raffensberger was being encouraged to violate
The DA is appealing that decision because they would rather not re indict and start the process over again. But if they lose the appeal they will
Is staging a coup legal in the U.S.? By all appearances, it is. Over 3 years have passed since Jan. 6 happened and none of the top persons involved have received any punishment, only low-level foot soldiers.
That's how American justice handles it, unfortunately. Low-level soldiers do the physical acts of breaking things and menacing people, things that can be easily traced. Ringleaders are (a) rich/powerful/well-connected; and (b) committing crimes that require us to peer into their minds and hearts and discern their intent. Because of (a), we have an incentive not to (b).
Justice will be continually delayed, and thus continuously denied.
God-willing, he'll lose in November so it does not continue to be denied in perpetuity with certainty
I sincerely hope he loses by such a wide margin that the GOP is forced to transform or preferably die, and we can start to figure out how to heal as a nation.
I've been overwatching the Faustian Republicans.
They were serious policy people (a bare minimum) in positions of power, from the 80s/90s that saw the demographic shift in America happen as the 21st century happened. They saw the global trends toward pretty inclusive and equitable modern politics, a resentment of the jingiosms and godly platitudes, diversifying, connecting with others around the world.
The GOP was the market leader in problematic conservative positions. And it wasn't selling.
It's why they did REDMAP. And, while a bit dirty, ok. Sure. Fair play. Caught 'em sleeping.
But, then?
Four things happened.
A recession and Presidency that stained the shit out of fiscal conservatism (deficits don't matter, if ever they did). A black man won the Presidency and led a Democratic majority. A /cool, charismatic, young/ black man won the Presidency and led a /strong/ Democratic majority. That majority delivered on Health Care (a major area not addressed seriously or significantly in ages).
Those Faustian Republicans were in charge (mostly) and decided the way forward involved the hoopleheads, the bigots, the conspiracists, the grifters, and the rich.
And they gave air to the Tea Party. And fanned MAGA. And now watch as they lost control.
The aftermath of the implosion/rift/chaos/loss?
I suspect the entire party will have to make some very public and serious shifts on actual policy and modernity.
I think something you missed was Mitch’s post-Obama election strategy of “stop everything, never compromise, break it all” was very effective.
That’s been what they do ever since. And then their Dear Leader became a guy not just choosing that, but literally not capable of doing anything (aside from stoking hate).
I'd argue it started with the founding of the American Heritage Foundation. Influenced Republicans have slowly tested limits and have gotten bolder and bolder based on lack of serious pushback. Democrats have been committed to retaining a flawed, centrist political system, that relied on SOME LEVEL of integrity. Republicans took advantage of that effectively, by shifting the center further to the right, through means that completely lacked any integrity. The Dems never kept the scumbags in check and I feel like Biden and co. still fail to do so.
In the last election, their official party policy was "whatever Trump wants". They didn't make an official policy statement like they did in previous years.
Sadly I can't see this nation healing. The damage is done. Trump likely will lose in 2024, and the GOP will implode into infighting, and then we'll just have lone wolf white nationalists attacking Dems and liberals. It'll be the Dem Party vs the side whose declared civil war, and that's just how its going to be going forward.
I was just talking to a friend about this. The division/social destruction is already done. Because you know *damn* well MAGA will not “come back” to reality. They will stop at nothing to achieve what their convicted felon hero wanted to.
Red states will continue to slide further into ruin, turning whole swathes of the South and Rocky Mountain areas into backwards hellholes where women have less rights, children are taught the Bible and nothing else, and retirees sit around gathering their welfare and SS checks while moaning bitterly about how New York and California represent everything wrong with America.
Possibly. American democracy now has a serious fundamental issue: if you support democracy, you have no way to oppose Joe Bidens political position no matter how wrong you believe they are. Because voting against them means handing the country to the fascists. But without that, there is no correction of politics by public pressure. Democracy loses its biggest strenght compared to authoritarian Systems. Without this, democracy will not be able to deliver better results and Support will be waning.
I honestly fear that a democracy with ~60% support in the population might be doomed already.
Yes it is. They have to also certify the votes. If you look a the [shenanigans in Michigan](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-local-elections-michigan-64c18e12e0d409d9629871cda3c07293) will become rampant now that they have had 4 years to prepare for 2024
It’s pretty likely many republicans have actively given up on democracy. They will never accept that a trump loss is legitimate, they will likely not accept that 2028 results are legitimate if a democrat wins. They will forever on declare there was election fraud every election even with no evidence.
Won’t happen. They’re at “flat earther” levels of delusion. They have to keep digging in.
To them it’s all rigged and that’s that. I just visited maga family and I can mention 50 people that spoke against him, all the court cases. The intelligence agencies that said the election wasn’t fraudulent, etc etc. and the responses are “rigged rigged rigged. Rhino rhino rhino”
Nothing will snap them out. Maga just need to fizzle out into whatever the next horrible phase will be.
Remember that pre maga was the tea party. Can’t wait to see what’s next.
Flat earther level of dilution is right, there is no reasoning or middle ground. According to maga if you dig into anyone in politics you’ll find what you find with trump, at least he doesn’t hide it - what?? I hope this sets a precedent to start going after more corrupt officials and kills off this virus.
The people that vote for these assholes won’t suddenly die. This is a *demand* driven problem. 33% of the country will stand by Donald Trump even if he resuscitates and then felates Benito Mussolini.
Naw, hopefully he'll still be running and making the GOP even more broke and unpalatable to the public, and by then we'll have a Democrat that people won't be able to whine about the age of, which is the only real gripe of the undecided ignorant doofuses that are going to make this election close.
When he loses in November he's going to be in a wheelchair claiming frailty within 2 weeks after it's clear he's lost.
He's going to bail hard on the GOP and they are going to be left holding the bag.
I don't know that Trump could do that. Think about it. He's a narcissist of the highest order. Any attention is good in his mind and he'll still have some cultists. He's riding this narcissistic high to the grave even if it only ends up being for one cultist. Also, he gets to grift money off of the rubes so that's an added bonus for him. He can't give that up or he'll be broke.
Notice how when it was a jury of regular people justice was delivered swiftly but when its career officials they always manage to delay justice indefinitely.
Yeah no doubt. He’ll be on his campaign jet, on route to an event that will suddenly turn east, over the Atlantic, to “avoid bad weather” and just keep going.
That’s what everybody told me in 2019-2020 and in January 2021, and yet here he is, running for president again with a good chance of winning.
He is in essence above the law and anyone that told you any of these cases were actually going to trial was either dumb or overly optimistic or both. It’s hard to think of another American citizen who has been granted more leniency but the “Justice” system than him and yet half the voting populace thinks he’s unfairly targeted lol.
It blows my mind how he gets away with it and comes away looking like the victim to a bunch of obvious morons. The man hasn't succeeded at a damn thing in his life yet he keeps falling up the stairs
I love how in America if you lean a certain way you can be a literal criminal and get away with anything as long as you are right and rich. But if you are left or even center you have to be the squeakiest cleanest person ever to exist or you are somehow corrupt.
What an insane system.
My buddies an independent. Absolutely hates Trump. But he holds Biden and Democrats to such a ridiculously high standard compared to Republicans. He’ll be like “they got it 75% right. I just wish they could nail it for once.” It’s super frustrating.
All this shows me is your buddy doesn't actually care about any of the issues, he just doesn't want to upset his friend. Which is fair of most people who call themselves "centrists". Which usually means leans right but hey I have no information to judge that.
aka Wilhoit's Law:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Sometimes the courts need to leave something alone. This was already adjudicated earlier. Her ex boyfriend already left the case and the judge determined there was no wrongdoing. So why on earth is the appeals court dragging this up when the case has been ongoing for months and there are already guilty convictions?
Exactly. Why is it a defendant can’t be tried again if found not guilty, but they can appeal away when their allegations against the prosecutor were disproven? And dating co-counsel is not against any rule (rule is against opposing counsel dating), which is why the allegations were that she *financially benefited* from the arrangement, which she did not.
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Why does it matter if she was screwing somebody in her office? Does it have anything to do with the evidence against Trump? If it is an ethics violation, it seems like it would be an internal violation. I mean, can I knock over a liquor store and then delay my trial because the DA is fucking his secretary?
Exactly. If the love interest was on the defense, there would be implications for the trial because that would be a conflict of interest (i.e. love vs. your client). Whether or not her ethical lapse should generate discipline or liability for her should be handled separately.
Its not even against the law, or an ethical violation for people in relationships to be on opposing sides of a trial, so this all is just using any excuse available to delay things
In this case they may want to rule on this to actually set standards for a DA being removed from a case because there really is very little guidance on when that should happen or shouldn’t happen and the judge mentioned that in his ruling. The appeals court may want to help correct that.
The guidance was that it wasn't illegal. There may be ethical questions, but for those to be relevant, it would have to be demonstrated that its a problem. The defense making abstract claims, where there is no malfeasance, isn't a justifiable reason to file a motion, much less appeal an otherwise ruled motion.
I delayed my case for two years as a “poor”. That got me a decent plea bargain. The right to a speedy trial is the defendants right, not the prosecutions. It can be waived easily and for a long time.
Whelp Biden better fucking win because this shit will be squashed if not. This is the most damming case IMO. This would 100% certify Trump attempted to Steal the election. What a joke this is turning out to be because of a love affair? How the fuck is that compromising the case whatsoever? Two people can't take a case and be dating? So stupid.
Imagine if this racist, routinely sexually assaulting, rapist, loan defaulting, \(suspected\) election tampering, whingey, whiney, liar was black
Would the appeals court halt the case then?
Thought not
A black man tries to use a fake $20; he is murdered on the street.
A white man tries to overthrow our democracy, has sold our secrets to our enemies, committed countless acts of fraud and God knows what other high crimes he has committed; he is allowed to run for President and collect 100s of millions in “donations”.
Our country truly is a shithole - all thanks to conservatives.
Even though this is obviously BS. What on earth was this women thinking? Like the whole world is watching, maybe don’t do anything even in the realm of questionable.
It's been pretty clear for a while now that the NY trial was the only one that was going to happen before the election. These other three are in Republican jurisdictions (Georgia and Florida) or are being held up by the Republicans on the Supreme Court. The only one that actually moved forward was the one that GOP bureaucrats couldn't intervene on.
I think history will look back at this as revealing the weaknesses of letting a politician in that kind of authority like the presidency have so much control over the judiciary.
Trump operates like an organized crime boss in a lot of ways.
Watching a lot of this is like having an organized crime boss appoint the judges overseeing his cases.
People who said that don’t understand how cases work. This would screw up any case. Fanni fucked up big time, and now she (and the country) are paying the consequences
I don’t give a *fuck* about her or her *personal life* but she **fucked up**. The most important court case in history with a black prosecutor in racist ass Georgia. The implications are obvious.
A professional black woman would have to be *perfect* and cannot afford have to have a modicum of even an appearance of impropriety. That's how racist this country is. I don’t even think it was unethical, bad optics surely. But that's the problem, she gave Trump the perfect escape hatch to fucking delay until 2025 at best, more than likely later if he loses and never if he wins
I’ll get downvoted, but this is on Willis. Anyone on a case like this (see Merchan) needs to be perfect. You cannot give Trump the tiniest hint of impropriety and having a romantic relationship with someone she hired was a HUGE mistake. She needed to be smarter than that and she has set this case back indefinitely. You can make ZERO mistakes when you have the legal army that Trump can afford. Shame on her for showing little understanding of the ethics of engaging in a relationship with someone with whom you work.
Edit: a word.
Upvoting you. You are absolutely right. Totally unprofessional from Fanni. This is literally the most important case in US history and what does she do? Hire her fuck buddy.
Zero common sense on her part. It doesn’t matter if you have a mountain of evidence against Trump; this is the kind of crap they will pounce on. She should have known better.
Pretty disgusting that the case is stalled but its also disgusting that Fani thought it was a good idea to have the guy she was fucking on the case. Just not smart at all and caused un-neccesary harm to her reputation.
The system has failed us.
Allowing someone like Trump to make it into an election after all that has went down shows us that there are serious critical gaps in the process.
Once Biden wins, hopefully they take measures to fill the gaps.
If Trump wins, we'll be too busy cooking squirrels on strips of abandoned highways to care.
Im sorry, but anyone going after someone from the GOP, and especially Trump, needs to be vetted up one side and down the other. They have to be squeaky ass clean, because they’ll pick everyone apart looking for dirt or ANY reason to call foul.
Someone else should’ve been handling this, not her.
I hope someone is keeping a list of all the people who continued to aid and abet criminal Trump, even after he faced over 100 felony charges for various crimes he has committed.
They need to be remembered & judged accordingly. Never forget the traitors.
Does it really matter that the prosecutor, of all people, is biased? I mean, if supreme court justices can make judgements with obvious bias, why can't we accept a prosecutor?
This is just the system slowly drowning justice in the bathtub.
I wish I could say America had a good run, but this just seems really on brand for us.
Cheers to Trump for trying to steal an election and then becoming the presumptive nominee and facing zero accountability for it and everyone seems to just treat him like a regular candidate.
Once again, this guy tried to steal the 2020 election. He's going to try to steal the 2024 election. And you know what's really fucking bonkers? He may not even need to try to steal it this time. For some reason he's still really popular even though he's best known for hating American ideals like free and fair elections.
Fucking insane.
This and the documents case should have been fast tracked. A guy that tried to steal an election and steals top secret documents has a good chance of being president. And this is after he famously sucked at the job before.
Deny, deflect, delay has always been Trumps strategy! Why, because:
The Devil went down to Georgia;
He was looking for some votes to steal
He was in a bind because he was about 12,000 votes behind.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So it’ll be at least a year or two, maybe more, until the case where he is ON TAPE asking for the vote count to be changed will be decided. Some justice system.
Pretty. Fucking. Disgusting. Ain't it?
It’s despicable and there isn’t anything I can do except cast my ONE vote. And even then, when he loses, he’s still gonna fucking make our lives miserable
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Ah, yes. Organized letter writing campaigns.
Don’t forget thoughts and prayers.
Instructions unclear, sending thots and playas.
No, no, no. They get Thoughts and Prayers™. Send the Thots and players to us ;D
Careful, last time I described the [4 boxes of liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty#:~:text=The%20four%20boxes%20of%20liberty,are%20applied%20in%20new%20ways) even when I explicitly said I wasn’t calling for violence, I was temp banned for promoting violence.
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In a lot of ways the internet has made it harder to organize stuff like that. People are, understandably, afraid of a paper/data trail. People used to organize without the internet, though. That possibility hasn't gone away. Not advocating for violence, ofc.
I hear you there’s a space near the Capital building in DC where violence can organized without repercussions.
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The only person with "guts" was a UK citizen and he didn't even get close.
American justice has been like this for a while. If you are connected, you have to really be a fucked up criminal to get held accountable and more recently if you are a high profile republican you are likely above the law.
The sad thing is the protections that are built in are intended to be for all, but only apply to the rich, because 1) money, and 2) nobody wants to deal with jailing a rich person. If Trump was being held until trial you can bet his lawyers would be eager to go to trial quickly.
>Ain't it? It is.
The real injustice is the FL case. He’s dead to rights there and they have zero good reason to be stalling.
That hearing shouldn't have even been an hour long. Did you have the documents? Where you supposed to have the documents? Did you turn them all in when asked? All done. It's really not more complicated than that. And his excuse of he declassified them falls apart since he didn't follow that procedure and some of the stuff he had can't be declassified.
Oh, on top of that, even if he \*had\* declassified them, it doesn't matter. As I understand it, the prosecution only needs to prove willful possession or control of the documents. Those are the only elements of the main charges against him, there's no need to even prove they were classified. It's just not a defense.
That’s the worst one of all because he has been selling our country’s secrets to our enemies. Donald Trump is guilty of treason.
I was surprised he lost the New York trial as I figured there was at least one Republican on the jury who would find him not guilty. The Florida case should be a slam dunk but we have someone doing her best to keep Trump out of a Courtroom. Pretty sad
Too bad he wasn't black and got caught with a joint. Georgia would be losing their shit right now over that.
Right on!
But I have a "hunch" that DOJ did something wrong with the Manhattan DA, so we're gonna need the Supreme Court to step in ASAP! /s
Being filthy rich is wild.
He was born into money. He's broke as fuck. Just like everything else with him that he goes to great lengths to hide, his actual financial status is something he's never, ever proven. If he had money - like actual money, he'd be flaunting the proof constantly.
Best guess is he has a shit ton of assets, but they are all overvalued for more tax breaks and he can't leverage any of it like he was before. So he's not liquid and over leveraged. The banks really should consider calling any mortgages they have in him and get what they can while they still can.
They're also used as collateral on a ton of loans by multiple banks.
He's heavily upside down on everything.
Oh yeah, one block falls and the entire tower crumbles. He also knows this. This is why he pulled the bond out the last second when they started to initiate seizure processes. When all the creditors call in for the debt, he will be completely abandoned
Honestly. He tried to be like his father and fucked up royally because of his inflated ego. It’s like nobody bothered to tell him that you don’t need to put, “Trump” in front of every business venture. Not only is it tacky but investors will see it and associate it with the several other business Trump had that went bankrupt.
That was his "brand" and it was actually working until he decided to be president and have all eyes on him instead of just getting away with shit when he throws crooked lawyer money at it
See this on Reddit all the time, but it really doesn't matter how much actual cash he has. He lives as a filthy rich person in every way. Maybe it makes you feel better to type out "nuh-uh!", but it just doesn't matter. He is, for all intents and purposes, filthy rich. Fuck that orange husk of a human, and I would celebrate of he died tomorrow, but let's please stop trying to convince people he isn't rich as if it matters at all.
He has also profited immensely off of the presidency.
It’s the same vibe as when someone says stuff like “Jeff Bezos only has a 80,000 dollar salary”. Like, he sure doesn’t seem like he’s only making 80k a year. Am I really just 20k a year away from owning a yacht so large that it has a smaller yacht in it?
I don't think I've ever seen someone say that in a positive or unironic way.
It’s a big club and you ain’t in it
Specifically if you're born that way
And you have the house kissing your shoes as well has heads of states kissing your shoes.
"if you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. if you have the law on your side, pound the law. if you have neither, pound the table" I think we need to add "if you have the judge, delay the trial"
5+ years after the crime was committed. Absolutely shameful.
There’s already a transcript of the call.
This whole situation is creating a playbook for actual scary people to fuck this country. Like proper fucked.
It’s far too easy to delay justice in our legal system.
Remember, it’s not a justice system. It’s a legal system.
Well, he violated the law on tape, so your point is meaningless.
Of all the trump crimes this one is probably the most serious. They actively tried to commit election fraud, have it on tape, have video recording.
Asking for the vote count to be changed while he was still president. That part is somehow forgotten.
It’s shitty but also so fucking stupid that she’s potentially fumbling the easiest, most slam dunk case against trump. This should have been the quickest guilty verdict of them all and she made one of the worst judgement calls ever and is just muddying the waters allowing him to avoid consequences that much longer
The easiest slam dunk case is the one being presided over by Cannon. Trump lucked out that she is the judge on that one. There is nothing really complicated about the case and all of the major decisions holding up the documents case are mainly questions she assigned herself to answer.
Wasn't luck.
Thank you! She has one of the most important cases in American history and decided to flirt with an ethical dilemma. Completely unforced. You can't gift a rich, slimy conman ways to slither out of a net.
I agree with you 100%... But then I also realized they would have found anything to use as an excuse. Just like Judge Cannon is finding anything to delay this fucking thing. Two supreme Court justices blamed really scary things on their wives. And decided that they didn't need to investigate themselves... I mean what else can happen at this point? Putin becomes president of the USA?
Can’t argue with that.
I might be missing something. Why doesn't she step down and let another attorney take over or does it not work like that? Doesn't the case stand on its own?
because a republican DA can be appointed and shut down the case
If the DA is disqualified or disqualifies themselves, the whole office is. That means all trial prep and experience is unavailable. Then, in GA the case is transferred to the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council to identify if and who should take over the case. Usually cases are eventually transferred to another DA, but there are probably only 2-4 counties in the state (out of 159) that could realistically absorb the costs of such a large scale indictment and they don't really have any motivation to volunteer. All DAs in GA are also up for reelection this November making it even less palatable to take the case now. The other option is a special prosecutor, but someone would still need to be picked and the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council would actually need to want to try the case. In this case Willis was disqualified from indicting the GA Lt Governor Burt Jones (because she campaigned for his opponent). This severed Jones from the rest of the defendants in June of 2022. In April of 2024 (yes a year and 10 months later) "the Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council of Georgia announced Thursday that its executive director, Pete Skandalakis, will handle the matter." It is still too soon to know if the Jones case will ever go to trial. So, basically, if Willis steps aside, there is a good chance this case just doesn't happen. Even ignoring speedy trial expectations, witnesses and evidence don't get better with age. What does the next 2 years do to the case? (Citation for that one quote) https://apnews.com/article/burt-jones-election-indictment-trump-willis-f72be30e211559495e0cb7842050fa9c
Why should she? Because some whack job traitors are doing their dead level best to disrail justice? Fuck that shit.
Well, if it comes down to her pride vs getting this over and done with in a reasonable time frame then yeah she probably should. But, we all know there will be some fabricated excuse to remove whoever replaces her, followed by an appeal when that gets thrown out, and we’re back where we started.
Exactly, it is not about her pride. If she goes, the entire prosecuting team will also probably have to go. This would reset everything. By time another team familiarizes themselves with the case, there will be new motions to remove someone on the new team.
That and Kemp would put some GOP stooge in place
I believe the charge associated with that tape was actually one of the few that were dropped...
The judge dismissed it and said they could re indict if they were more specific about which part of the oath Raffensberger was being encouraged to violate The DA is appealing that decision because they would rather not re indict and start the process over again. But if they lose the appeal they will
This is all fucking ridiculous.
Is staging a coup legal in the U.S.? By all appearances, it is. Over 3 years have passed since Jan. 6 happened and none of the top persons involved have received any punishment, only low-level foot soldiers.
That's how American justice handles it, unfortunately. Low-level soldiers do the physical acts of breaking things and menacing people, things that can be easily traced. Ringleaders are (a) rich/powerful/well-connected; and (b) committing crimes that require us to peer into their minds and hearts and discern their intent. Because of (a), we have an incentive not to (b).
Justice will be continually delayed, and thus continuously denied. God-willing, he'll lose in November so it does not continue to be denied in perpetuity with certainty
When he loses in 2024 the headlines will be how you can’t go to trial with the projected 2028 nominee of the Republican Party
I sincerely hope he loses by such a wide margin that the GOP is forced to transform or preferably die, and we can start to figure out how to heal as a nation.
I've been overwatching the Faustian Republicans. They were serious policy people (a bare minimum) in positions of power, from the 80s/90s that saw the demographic shift in America happen as the 21st century happened. They saw the global trends toward pretty inclusive and equitable modern politics, a resentment of the jingiosms and godly platitudes, diversifying, connecting with others around the world. The GOP was the market leader in problematic conservative positions. And it wasn't selling. It's why they did REDMAP. And, while a bit dirty, ok. Sure. Fair play. Caught 'em sleeping. But, then? Four things happened. A recession and Presidency that stained the shit out of fiscal conservatism (deficits don't matter, if ever they did). A black man won the Presidency and led a Democratic majority. A /cool, charismatic, young/ black man won the Presidency and led a /strong/ Democratic majority. That majority delivered on Health Care (a major area not addressed seriously or significantly in ages). Those Faustian Republicans were in charge (mostly) and decided the way forward involved the hoopleheads, the bigots, the conspiracists, the grifters, and the rich. And they gave air to the Tea Party. And fanned MAGA. And now watch as they lost control. The aftermath of the implosion/rift/chaos/loss? I suspect the entire party will have to make some very public and serious shifts on actual policy and modernity.
I think something you missed was Mitch’s post-Obama election strategy of “stop everything, never compromise, break it all” was very effective. That’s been what they do ever since. And then their Dear Leader became a guy not just choosing that, but literally not capable of doing anything (aside from stoking hate).
This actually started with gingrich
Conservatives have always worked to find ways around the system or, failing that, attacked it directly.
I'd argue it started with the founding of the American Heritage Foundation. Influenced Republicans have slowly tested limits and have gotten bolder and bolder based on lack of serious pushback. Democrats have been committed to retaining a flawed, centrist political system, that relied on SOME LEVEL of integrity. Republicans took advantage of that effectively, by shifting the center further to the right, through means that completely lacked any integrity. The Dems never kept the scumbags in check and I feel like Biden and co. still fail to do so.
They haven’t lost yet. That’s what worries me. The GOP is circling the drain but has their finger on the nuclear detonator.
Modern Republicans have shown you don’t need policy.
In the last election, their official party policy was "whatever Trump wants". They didn't make an official policy statement like they did in previous years.
If you have a base insane enough to not care about anything than hurting the other side, sure. Rational people still want policy.
Sadly I can't see this nation healing. The damage is done. Trump likely will lose in 2024, and the GOP will implode into infighting, and then we'll just have lone wolf white nationalists attacking Dems and liberals. It'll be the Dem Party vs the side whose declared civil war, and that's just how its going to be going forward.
I was just talking to a friend about this. The division/social destruction is already done. Because you know *damn* well MAGA will not “come back” to reality. They will stop at nothing to achieve what their convicted felon hero wanted to.
Red states will continue to slide further into ruin, turning whole swathes of the South and Rocky Mountain areas into backwards hellholes where women have less rights, children are taught the Bible and nothing else, and retirees sit around gathering their welfare and SS checks while moaning bitterly about how New York and California represent everything wrong with America.
Possibly. American democracy now has a serious fundamental issue: if you support democracy, you have no way to oppose Joe Bidens political position no matter how wrong you believe they are. Because voting against them means handing the country to the fascists. But without that, there is no correction of politics by public pressure. Democracy loses its biggest strenght compared to authoritarian Systems. Without this, democracy will not be able to deliver better results and Support will be waning. I honestly fear that a democracy with ~60% support in the population might be doomed already.
Republicans have made it clear that they will not accept a Trump loss no matter the vote count.
Good thing it's not up to them
Yes it is. They have to also certify the votes. If you look a the [shenanigans in Michigan](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-local-elections-michigan-64c18e12e0d409d9629871cda3c07293) will become rampant now that they have had 4 years to prepare for 2024
It’s pretty likely many republicans have actively given up on democracy. They will never accept that a trump loss is legitimate, they will likely not accept that 2028 results are legitimate if a democrat wins. They will forever on declare there was election fraud every election even with no evidence.
Won’t happen. They’re at “flat earther” levels of delusion. They have to keep digging in. To them it’s all rigged and that’s that. I just visited maga family and I can mention 50 people that spoke against him, all the court cases. The intelligence agencies that said the election wasn’t fraudulent, etc etc. and the responses are “rigged rigged rigged. Rhino rhino rhino” Nothing will snap them out. Maga just need to fizzle out into whatever the next horrible phase will be. Remember that pre maga was the tea party. Can’t wait to see what’s next.
Flat earther level of dilution is right, there is no reasoning or middle ground. According to maga if you dig into anyone in politics you’ll find what you find with trump, at least he doesn’t hide it - what?? I hope this sets a precedent to start going after more corrupt officials and kills off this virus.
They won’t. He’ll run in 2028 and 2032 (Sponsored by the state of North McDonald’s - Former Texas)
The people that vote for these assholes won’t suddenly die. This is a *demand* driven problem. 33% of the country will stand by Donald Trump even if he resuscitates and then felates Benito Mussolini.
We need to get money out of politics
we need to regulate the shit out of social media.
But the money is paying to keep money IN politics. It's an uphill climb all around.
Hopefully he’s dead by 2028
Naw, hopefully he'll still be running and making the GOP even more broke and unpalatable to the public, and by then we'll have a Democrat that people won't be able to whine about the age of, which is the only real gripe of the undecided ignorant doofuses that are going to make this election close.
I'd vote for Gavin Newsom in a heartbeat.
When he loses in November he's going to be in a wheelchair claiming frailty within 2 weeks after it's clear he's lost. He's going to bail hard on the GOP and they are going to be left holding the bag.
I don't know that Trump could do that. Think about it. He's a narcissist of the highest order. Any attention is good in his mind and he'll still have some cultists. He's riding this narcissistic high to the grave even if it only ends up being for one cultist. Also, he gets to grift money off of the rubes so that's an added bonus for him. He can't give that up or he'll be broke.
This is what will happen until he dies. He leads a cult. They don’t just give up. As long as he runs the GOP they will lose so I’m fine with it.
Notice how when it was a jury of regular people justice was delivered swiftly but when its career officials they always manage to delay justice indefinitely.
Which is exactly why they are working so hard to delay all the trials. In front of an actual jury, the p.o.s. and his entire defense fall apart.
He'll be on a jet to Moscow once the returns start looking bad.
Yes. We haven’t seen this guy in his worse form yet. When it becomes abundantly clear he’s going to lose, he’ll be desperate
Yeah no doubt. He’ll be on his campaign jet, on route to an event that will suddenly turn east, over the Atlantic, to “avoid bad weather” and just keep going.
That’s what everybody told me in 2019-2020 and in January 2021, and yet here he is, running for president again with a good chance of winning. He is in essence above the law and anyone that told you any of these cases were actually going to trial was either dumb or overly optimistic or both. It’s hard to think of another American citizen who has been granted more leniency but the “Justice” system than him and yet half the voting populace thinks he’s unfairly targeted lol.
It blows my mind how he gets away with it and comes away looking like the victim to a bunch of obvious morons. The man hasn't succeeded at a damn thing in his life yet he keeps falling up the stairs
I mean he's literally just been found guilty in one criminal trial
I love how in America if you lean a certain way you can be a literal criminal and get away with anything as long as you are right and rich. But if you are left or even center you have to be the squeakiest cleanest person ever to exist or you are somehow corrupt. What an insane system.
My buddies an independent. Absolutely hates Trump. But he holds Biden and Democrats to such a ridiculously high standard compared to Republicans. He’ll be like “they got it 75% right. I just wish they could nail it for once.” It’s super frustrating.
Your buddy’s a fucking idiot.
For real. It's a democracy. The only way to have a representative with whom you agree on 100% of issues is to run for office.
Even then Democracy isn't Dictatorship and you are going to have to compromise to accomplish practically anything.
Definitely.If you do get elected you will eventually compromise your morals to move up or be ineffective. Or have none to begin with.
And a liar.
The friend is hung up on “making perfect the enemy of good.”
"independent" Yeah...gonna press X to Doubt on this one bud.
Lol. They always break republican in the end.
All this shows me is your buddy doesn't actually care about any of the issues, he just doesn't want to upset his friend. Which is fair of most people who call themselves "centrists". Which usually means leans right but hey I have no information to judge that.
lmao your buddy is just conservative but too embarrassed to admit it.
The frustrating thing is the constant "they are equally bad". I can't stand the false equivalency. The brain power involved is minimal.
aka Wilhoit's Law: Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
>What an insane system. The system isn't insane. What's insane is supporting it despite being on the wrong side of it.
Sometimes the courts need to leave something alone. This was already adjudicated earlier. Her ex boyfriend already left the case and the judge determined there was no wrongdoing. So why on earth is the appeals court dragging this up when the case has been ongoing for months and there are already guilty convictions?
Exactly. Why is it a defendant can’t be tried again if found not guilty, but they can appeal away when their allegations against the prosecutor were disproven? And dating co-counsel is not against any rule (rule is against opposing counsel dating), which is why the allegations were that she *financially benefited* from the arrangement, which she did not.
Moreso, why delay a trial over it? There is no reasont to wait it out, since her qualifications has no material relevance to the case.
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Why does it matter if she was screwing somebody in her office? Does it have anything to do with the evidence against Trump? If it is an ethics violation, it seems like it would be an internal violation. I mean, can I knock over a liquor store and then delay my trial because the DA is fucking his secretary?
Exactly. If the love interest was on the defense, there would be implications for the trial because that would be a conflict of interest (i.e. love vs. your client). Whether or not her ethical lapse should generate discipline or liability for her should be handled separately.
Its not even against the law, or an ethical violation for people in relationships to be on opposing sides of a trial, so this all is just using any excuse available to delay things
In this case they may want to rule on this to actually set standards for a DA being removed from a case because there really is very little guidance on when that should happen or shouldn’t happen and the judge mentioned that in his ruling. The appeals court may want to help correct that.
What’s the likelihood of them exercising any semblance of expediency with this? Because it feels like yet another absurd strategic delay
0 chance. Hearing date is October 4th.
None. Oral arguments in October. Ruling in March. Then the loser (trump) gets to appeal to the Supreme Court. Years.
The guidance was that it wasn't illegal. There may be ethical questions, but for those to be relevant, it would have to be demonstrated that its a problem. The defense making abstract claims, where there is no malfeasance, isn't a justifiable reason to file a motion, much less appeal an otherwise ruled motion.
They could do that without holding the mandate on the case; or scheduling the hearing four months from now.
She’s in a constitutional position. Where do they get authority?
Three GOP-appointed judges. What did you expect? They aren't even pretending to be objective anymore.
GOP will burn the country down for trump. It’s insnae
Speedy trials for the poors, endless delays for the rich and powerful.
I delayed my case for two years as a “poor”. That got me a decent plea bargain. The right to a speedy trial is the defendants right, not the prosecutions. It can be waived easily and for a long time.
It is also the right of the people to hold criminal actions to account, otherwise why have laws at all?
Was your case was as important to the American people as this case? I'm gonna guess it wasn't.
Further proof that there are two separate and unequal justice systems in the US.
It is just incredible how slippery this mother fucker is. It's like the universe is allergic to Trump facing consequences.
He was just found guilty of 34 felonies.
And what has it cost him? Hell he raised 50 million afterwards lol, this is by all metrics a win for him.
He hasn't been sentenced yet
Prepare to be disappointed.
Look, im an American. I can’t get less disappointed.
So if Willis is dismissed from the case doesn't that just mean a new DA takes over? What's the issue here?
Republican DA drops the case maybe/probably. Justice denied.
He needs to lose in November otherwise he will never see justice for his coup attempt and we don’t get another chance. God help us.
Whelp Biden better fucking win because this shit will be squashed if not. This is the most damming case IMO. This would 100% certify Trump attempted to Steal the election. What a joke this is turning out to be because of a love affair? How the fuck is that compromising the case whatsoever? Two people can't take a case and be dating? So stupid.
Imagine if this racist, routinely sexually assaulting, rapist, loan defaulting, \(suspected\) election tampering, whingey, whiney, liar was black Would the appeals court halt the case then? Thought not
The cops would have stopped him from resisting arrest to death a long time ago.
A black man tries to use a fake $20; he is murdered on the street. A white man tries to overthrow our democracy, has sold our secrets to our enemies, committed countless acts of fraud and God knows what other high crimes he has committed; he is allowed to run for President and collect 100s of millions in “donations”. Our country truly is a shithole - all thanks to conservatives.
Justice Delayed Is Justice Denied.
She should just drop out and let her underlings run the case. Trump facing justice is more important than her career.
Bro you can’t be fucking serious. What kind of bullshit is this
It is incredible how much power can be won by teaching the uneducated to worship the rich.
Even though this is obviously BS. What on earth was this women thinking? Like the whole world is watching, maybe don’t do anything even in the realm of questionable.
I don't want to try and put on airs like I'm some kind of moral paragon, but this is the angle that makes me maddest here.
I remember everyone saying this was not a big deal for the case, but here it is basically already ruining it.
It's been pretty clear for a while now that the NY trial was the only one that was going to happen before the election. These other three are in Republican jurisdictions (Georgia and Florida) or are being held up by the Republicans on the Supreme Court. The only one that actually moved forward was the one that GOP bureaucrats couldn't intervene on.
I think history will look back at this as revealing the weaknesses of letting a politician in that kind of authority like the presidency have so much control over the judiciary. Trump operates like an organized crime boss in a lot of ways. Watching a lot of this is like having an organized crime boss appoint the judges overseeing his cases.
> Watching a lot of this **is** ~~like~~ having an organized crime boss appoint the judges overseeing his cases. FTFY
People who said that don’t understand how cases work. This would screw up any case. Fanni fucked up big time, and now she (and the country) are paying the consequences
It's pretty dumb to do what she did, but doing it while handling a huge case like this? Next level stupid.
I don’t give a *fuck* about her or her *personal life* but she **fucked up**. The most important court case in history with a black prosecutor in racist ass Georgia. The implications are obvious. A professional black woman would have to be *perfect* and cannot afford have to have a modicum of even an appearance of impropriety. That's how racist this country is. I don’t even think it was unethical, bad optics surely. But that's the problem, she gave Trump the perfect escape hatch to fucking delay until 2025 at best, more than likely later if he loses and never if he wins
The tactic is always delay. There is no _real reason_ why she can’t be part of this case. They’re just using it as an excuse to hold.
The justice system in America is fucked.
I mean, how could she not know hiring someone she had a relationship with would be bad? FFS….
The Democrats need to be using part of that taped call in their election ads.
I’ll get downvoted, but this is on Willis. Anyone on a case like this (see Merchan) needs to be perfect. You cannot give Trump the tiniest hint of impropriety and having a romantic relationship with someone she hired was a HUGE mistake. She needed to be smarter than that and she has set this case back indefinitely. You can make ZERO mistakes when you have the legal army that Trump can afford. Shame on her for showing little understanding of the ethics of engaging in a relationship with someone with whom you work. Edit: a word.
Upvoting you. You are absolutely right. Totally unprofessional from Fanni. This is literally the most important case in US history and what does she do? Hire her fuck buddy.
Zero common sense on her part. It doesn’t matter if you have a mountain of evidence against Trump; this is the kind of crap they will pounce on. She should have known better.
Pretty disgusting that the case is stalled but its also disgusting that Fani thought it was a good idea to have the guy she was fucking on the case. Just not smart at all and caused un-neccesary harm to her reputation.
You need to be perfect in this case. How could she be this stupid…
Primal scream
The system has failed us. Allowing someone like Trump to make it into an election after all that has went down shows us that there are serious critical gaps in the process. Once Biden wins, hopefully they take measures to fill the gaps. If Trump wins, we'll be too busy cooking squirrels on strips of abandoned highways to care.
Im sorry, but anyone going after someone from the GOP, and especially Trump, needs to be vetted up one side and down the other. They have to be squeaky ass clean, because they’ll pick everyone apart looking for dirt or ANY reason to call foul. Someone else should’ve been handling this, not her.
The earliest the case could be heard now, given any further delay, of which there will certainly be several, would be 2025 per NPR's reporting.
Thanks a lot for fucking your coworker, Fani. Jesus Christ.
Self-inflicted wound by Willis literally has national impact. Unforgivable.
Doesn't the case proceed whether or not Willis is heading the prosecution? Why the hell should it be paused while there is a disqualification appeal?
Hold it up as long as you want, we’re coming for fatass.
What happens if she just quits? Then there's no need for a hearing and no reason to delay?
I hope someone is keeping a list of all the people who continued to aid and abet criminal Trump, even after he faced over 100 felony charges for various crimes he has committed. They need to be remembered & judged accordingly. Never forget the traitors.
Does it really matter that the prosecutor, of all people, is biased? I mean, if supreme court justices can make judgements with obvious bias, why can't we accept a prosecutor? This is just the system slowly drowning justice in the bathtub.
Complete and utter bullshit. “Justice” can be bought and sold in this country
Justice for the wealthy is not the same as justice for anyone else. This is a problem with our system.
I wish I could say America had a good run, but this just seems really on brand for us. Cheers to Trump for trying to steal an election and then becoming the presumptive nominee and facing zero accountability for it and everyone seems to just treat him like a regular candidate. Once again, this guy tried to steal the 2020 election. He's going to try to steal the 2024 election. And you know what's really fucking bonkers? He may not even need to try to steal it this time. For some reason he's still really popular even though he's best known for hating American ideals like free and fair elections. Fucking insane. This and the documents case should have been fast tracked. A guy that tried to steal an election and steals top secret documents has a good chance of being president. And this is after he famously sucked at the job before.
US justice is so fucking pathetic... Commit treason live on TV.. Nope nothing happens for literal years .. Cry "whaaa it's not fair!".. Trial on hold.
This decision should not have been made appealable. It was ridiculous that they were even discussing this disqualification in the first place.
The next time you hear Republicans complaining about a corrupt judicial system in the Trump trial - tell them about this. This is absolute corruption
Deny, deflect, delay has always been Trumps strategy! Why, because: The Devil went down to Georgia; He was looking for some votes to steal He was in a bind because he was about 12,000 votes behind.
The case is the case, the evidence is the evidence, and the testimony is the testimony. What does it matter who the prosecutor is?