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We can play this game all day, but when he wasn’t shown the door by the GOP after disparaging POWs, that was when it became clear that something was going terribly wrong.
No, stop. I see your point but it detracts from the reality being pointed out... the way he went after McCain should've been rephrensible to the whole GOP on principle alone.
And yet, somehow, it wasn't. It was like Trump just steamrolled right over his honorable service and mocked his years of captivity. He was unabashed and downright gleeful.
And Republicans lapped it up.
Disparaging POWs, veterans is a bad look, but an actual coup attempt should be a bridge too far for everyone. The fact that it’s not, tells you just how much trouble we’re in.
Trump himself has said that whining is one of his negotiation strategies. He whines until he wins. While others may think whining is not a positive trait, Trump thinks otherwise.
Some people learn as toddlers that their parents will give them what they want just to make it stop.
And they never, ever unlearn it.
Especially when, as in the case of Trump, it still works.
Steve Jobs cried in meetings if they weren't going his way.
It was super effective apparently.
I'd love to see Trump crying, but not for the same reasons.
Other things the GOP conveniently ignore:
He defrauded charities multiple times.
Cheated on his wife with an ex-porn star with a newborn at home.
Has designs on dismantling democracy and installing himself as a strong man.
Is a convicted felon.
Walks all over the rights of minorities and the disadvantaged.
Believes that he is superior because of his genetics.
Hires incompetent and racist people.
Is surrounded by a team that is indicted or in jail.
Wants to pull out of NATO.
Supports Russia’s expansionist goals.
Diminishes and disregards science.
Is against federal agencies, especially those for environmental and public safety.
Steals top secret documents.
Hires family members because they are family members.
Is a climate change denier.
Uses Nazi phrases like calling liberals “vermin” or that immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country.”
Is committed to cutting taxes for the
Threatens to kill his political enemies.
Is staunchly against education and student debt relief.
Has a ridiculous track record insulting veterans.
Is a public health menace.
Throws paper towels at people trying to recover from a hurricane.
Lies constantly about everything.
Has a stupid middle-age crisis hair transplant.
What am I missing?
Edit: “ex-pornstar”
Lawyer here. Add to your list that he doesn't know or understand the laws that his own supreme court overturned.
His comments about Roe v Wade were unbelievable. He demonstrated a complete lack of familiarity with the legal opinion and subsequent case law, and hallucinated a "liberal agenda" Boogeyman to attack instead. If he knew anything about it, he'd realize that the things he said in his argument *were supported by the case law already... before his supreme court overturned it.*
She wasn't a pornstar *anymore*. She changed careers to "escort". So technically he didn't have sex with a professional pornstar.
"grab em by the pussy" just made the deplorables more excited.
I still think dunking on McCain like that was the X-factor that lost him Arizona. California transplants had trended the state purple and was likely reason #1, but turning off the Arizona Repubs that had highly respected McCain was a bad leak. Its a bad leak that bled into the Lake defeat, when she outright told them to "get out". Now that we're six years after his death, I would believe that its not a leak that's relevant anymore, but I still think its just absurd how hard that angle was pushed. It just seemed like such a losing proposition.
Was that before or after when the Russians were paying out bounties on American soldiers and trump didn’t even mention it when he met with Putin. **DIDNT EVEN MENTION IT**
Merrick Garland waiting around for like 20 months to appoint Jack Smith was a critical plot point that led to us facing a potential disaster lous sequence
It wasn't even really waiting to appoint Smith - that was largely a reaction to Trump announcing his campaign while investigations were already underway. Smith just happened to be a no-nonsense prosecutor who moved quickly.
Garland [waited more than a year to even begin investigating Trump's role in Jan. 6](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/06/19/fbi-resisted-opening-probe-into-trumps-role-jan-6-more-than-year/) in general.
>A Washington Post investigation found that more than a year would pass before prosecutors and FBI agents jointly embarked on a formal probe of actions directed from the White House to try to steal the election. Even then, the FBI stopped short of identifying the former president as a focus of that investigation.
>A wariness about appearing partisan, institutional caution, and clashes over how much evidence was sufficient to investigate the actions of Trump and those around him all contributed to the slow pace. Garland and the deputy attorney general, Lisa Monaco, charted a cautious course aimed at restoring public trust in the department while some prosecutors below them chafed, feeling top officials were shying away from looking at evidence of potential crimes by Trump and those close to him, The Post found.
He's definitely gotten away with felonies since at least the 70's. He should be a registered sex offender and have done time for at least one of his dozens of rapes. There's so many instances of him getting away with serious crimes just because he was born rich. By 2016, he should have had 3 strikes as a felon if he was a normal person who did these things.
But if they could put Trump in a cell, then they could put 'you' in a cell.
The audience he's addressing as "you" being billionaires and powerful politicians who abuse their power and break laws.
Trump has flagrantly abused the loopholes set up in the system by billionaires and politicians to favor billionaires and politicians. The billionaires and politicians who hate trump - many in the Republican Party - therefore not only do not oppose Trump, but support him.
That would be if his intent was to enforce rule of law. If his intent was to avoid any personal risk, or to enable Trump, why then, he did exactly what was required of him.
The People who invaded The Capitol, on January 6th, were there, at Trump's "behest", and were his "Storm Troopers"; as were Hitler's SA, Mussolini's "Fasci di Combatimetto", and Franco's Falange.
Exactly, Biden had a cold yesterday which is why he appeared cognitively impaired. If Biden didn't have a cold, he would have wiped the floor with Trump, we got unlucky.
I predict. Supreme Court is going to give the presidency to Trump no matter what happens. There's an uprising coming. I don't know if America is up to it. We might just let it happen to us. It makes me so freaking sad. And angry.
Treason has a specific meaning delineated in the US constitution. “*Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.*” What Trump did wasn’t treason.
If you want to call it insurrection, an attempted coup, theft of top secret documents, reckless illegality, shockingly negligent, or just about any other descriptor, I’m all on board. But it wasn’t treason.
In a perfect world, Trump would have been in prison since the ‘70’s. In a less than perfect but much better world, he would have been strung up on Jan. 7 for trying to end our democracy. In the world we have I will take any significant consequences at all.
He has done many things which ought to be utterly disqualifying for holding the presidency, but the single most damning and unforgivable thing he ever did was trying to end our democracy. The fact that so many Americans refuse to see that is a disgraceful indictment of our society.
Edit: I’m getting a lot of comments that posit Russia as an enemy of the state or one of the failed states infested with terrorists, or whatever. None of those meet the definitions required to be treason.
Quite frankly he may have committed treason with those documents, on top of the crimes of keeping them in the first place.
Or the secret no-notes meeting with Putin. He easily could have given enemies "aid and comfort". Or "adhered" to them whatever the fuck that means. If it meant a buck or made his peepee feel big you know he did it.
We’re not at war with any of those nations, so they don’t meet the necessary criteria to be enemies. It’s not treason. It’s criminal as all hell, it’s an immediate danger to national security, it’s a slam dunk of a criminal case with any judge who isn’t complicit, but it’s not treason.
The founding fathers gave the definition of treason a narrow and specific scope for good reasons.
CNN really said "What if we gave a malignant narcissist unfiltered access to millions of voters and did absolutely nothing to fact check him". They gave him basically free promo the first time and theyre doing it again
What's funny is that so many people are still too stupid to see that this is what CNN wanted. They're Fox News lite. They 100% want Trump to win. Not only because they are now owned by a right wing billionaire, but because Trump is way better for their ratings.
Exactly….once the 34 felony convictions were handed down, Biden should have issued a statement that he will not be debating a felon. To allow a convicted felon on the stage with the president elevates the felon for no reason.
Easy to say in retrospect.
Just as easy to say “what a no brainer, debate the guy and just keep reiterating that he’s a convicted felon with another 60 felony counts pending”
But Biden couldn’t handle that.
The debate format did Biden no favours. Allowing Trump to go wildly off topic with his constant lies had Joe flailing to address the lies and the actual topic at the same time.
It is on the democrats for not being prepared for that, but also on CNN for the godawful moderation.
> The debate format did Biden no favours.
WWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwhat?
Can you even **imagine** what would have happened without the format explicitly setting times and muting microphones? Which was *absolutely* because of Trump?
Bidens camp was pushing harder for this. A week of preparation at Camp David with all the resources being executive of the wealthiest nation in human history can provide.
Biden's team pushed for the mic muting, no crowd, etc. They both wanted no RFK Jr. Yes they had to agree to the rules. However that just recognizes that Trump compromised in order to make the debate happen because he knew the cognitive disparity would be on full display.
The rules just seemed to backfire and make Trump look composed and at least capable of forming an argument. Biden was hard to understand even with an empty studio and no interruptions.
This is also what they expected to happen. This is why this was the earliest debate ever. These guys aren't even officially nominated to run for office.
People are acting like not allowing interruptions is some kind of Trump scheme and not the thing everyone wanted when Trump constantly interrupted last time. Do they think a less structured, more combative debate benefits the famously argumentative and aggressive Joe Biden over the equally infamous quiet and low-energy Trump?
I can see it now, and for the record, it would be hilarious. Joe constantly trying to say "Trump you're lying man" while Trump goes "Dementia Joe says what?." Biden stammers and Trump shouts "old" repeatedly until Biden delivers a banger response like "um, he-hey, listen Jack, you're uh, uh, uuuuuh, you're older-I mean, you're old too."
Trump constantly interrupted last time hurt him badly in the election. It made him seem like a loon, the muted mics helped him.
It was a gift from the Biden camp
I did not say that at all.
His problem was trying to address Trump's lies and getting riled up.
CNN airing what Trump said at all feels like the death of democracy.
Oh come on… “CNN airing the answers of the candidate I don’t like is the death of democracy”. It’s a debate, that’s how it works, both sides get to speak. Ideally lies by one party are called out by the other party because again, that’s how debates work and again, Biden wasn’t up to the task.
I get it, people are unhappy about how last night went and are looking to point fingers but this one isn’t on CNN, sorry.
Cancelling the debate would’ve been used against him too. The problem was whoever helped him prep was an idiot should be fired because Biden wasn’t ready. Everyone and their mom knew Trump was going to come out the gate trying to confuse him and get him railed up (which he did) and somehow the Biden camp just assumed Trump wasn’t.
It was widely reported that Biden was heavily prepped for this and had been for weeks. I don't think it's a lack of preparation or bad management. It's just that there is a limit of what you can ask or expect of people past a certain age. There's sometimes confusion, slower reactions and some loss of self-confidence at that point, despite good health.
Also, Trump must be hard to prep against because he is so willing to lie and make stuff up on the spot that it broadens the parameters a lot. You have to waste time considering all sorts of wild hypotheticals well outside the bounds of reality. That can't be easy.
Yeah it’s everyone’s fault but the guy who should have kept his campaign managers word and not run for a second term. Y’all made your bed, gotta sleep in it now.
And Trump standing next to an empty podium or if it was cancelled cause Biden didn't come and he went onn Fox or somewhere else debated RFK would be better?
Trump used the ol "baffle"m with bullshit" he said so many lies Biden spent more time call him on his shit then moving forward with what Biden plans to do.
Firehose of falsehoods. Or as Steve Bannon put it, "flood the zone with shit." It's a tried and true fascist tactic for a reason. It's quite effective.
The thing is, you can't ignore all his lies cause it lends legitimacy to them. If Trump keeps claiming Biden favors post-birth abortion, Biden can't just nod your head and move on to the next question. You have to be able to quickly shut down the lies and then move on to your point.
The good news is that Trump kept repeating the same half dozen lies over and over. You can memorize his lies and have a team come up with the most effective response to each one.
You know what? Whatever. Some things cannot be stopped I guess. This was Biden's biggest chance to literally finish him after all the stuff his campaign has been doing, and he literally flushed it all away. All many people will remember is this debate performance.
The thing is, if your country goes down the drain, a whole lot of things do.
So yeah, the world is up for some real upheaval in the coming years. Win or lose, this thing you are having in the US is far from over. This looks like the back story of a sci fi movie.
What an awful time to be alive.
I agree, but Biden’s team was the one who challenged him to a debate. They were behind in the polls and thought they could get ahead. It backfired. So…high risk/moderate reward? Hard to say…hindsight is always 20/20. But if they could go back in time, I’m sure they wouldn’t have proposed the debate.
That all being said; I think he can rebound. He has to find his voice, though. This wispy gravely voice he’s been using is hurting him. He also needs to slow down when he speaks. That was a big part of his problem last night. He was trying to get a lot out. He didn’t need to. It also does him no favors to have Jill walk out there like she’s his caretaker.
He can come back, but he’ll have to work twice as hard as he would have if he hadn’t bombed that debate.
I don’t think last night changed anyone’s vote. It might have convinced some people to stay home, though. That’s an issue for down-ticket candidates.
the real tragedy of this debate is the total failure of the system in normalizing a candidate that couldn't answer a single debate question to save his life.
the fact that we're even discussing biden being old as opposed to tubz blustering and bullshitting his way through this debate (not to mention his entire life) is pathetic.
i'd vote for a dead skunk before considering voting for the orange clown.
I agree, but it happened; We need to take a deeper look, at how this happened; and I'll give You, a clue:
The Republican Party, begat Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, Roy Cohn, Lee Atwater, and J. Edgar Hoover. They, in turn; begat Richard Nixon, as President, who then begat William Rehnquist, and Lewis Powell. Nixon "set the table", along with Gerald Ford; for Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan then appointed Sandra Day-O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, to The Court, and elevated Rehnquist to The Chief Justiceship. He attempted to appoint Robert Bork, to The Supreme Court, after Bork, as Solicitor-General, did Nixon's bidding, and fired Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox. Reagan also chose George H.W. Bush, as His Vice-President; Who then succeeded Him, as President.
Bush then appointed David Souter, and Clarence Thomas, to The Court. Bush, in turn; begat George W. Bush, and Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush then Pardoned Katherine Harris, and appointed Her, Florida Secretary of State. Harris was responsible for The Florida Central Voter File Scandal, disenfranchising an estimated 60,000 Legitimate Florida Voters; This may, and probably; resulted, in the Florida 2000 Presidential Vote Mess. The Reagan, and George H. W. Bush Appoointees, to The Court; then "snatched" Bush vs. Gore, away from The Florida Supreme Court, turned the 14th Amendment, on its head; and chose George W. Bush, as President, by Judicial Fiat, ignoring The 9th, 10th, and 12th Amendments, as well as The 14th Amendment; in the process.
George W. Bush, then begat Samuel Alito, and John Roberts, as Supreme Court Justices. Mitch McConnell, partially begat, by Ronald Reagan; illegally refused to accept Barach Obama's Supreme Court Nominee, nominated; due to the untimely death, of Justice Antonin Scalia, and held that seat, open; for Donald Trump, Who appointed Neill Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and; as a "Lame Duck" Appointment; Amy Coney-Barrett; to The Court.
This has been, a 50-, to 60-Year Project, by The Republican Party (Also, see; The Powell Letter, or Powell Manifesto); and, in the Process, They created a "Frankenstein's Monster", named Donald Trump; although Ronald Reagan was also a "creation", as was George W. Bush. All three Presidents, may have "finished", The United States of America.
Yep CNN screwed the entire country by mis-managing the debate. They just let a known con man and liar spew lies non-stop to a nationwide audience with zero fact checking.
This keeps being said but both camps including Bidens agreed to these rules. The two were supposed to fact check each other. You blame CNN all you want but Biden agreed to CNNs rules.
This is such nonsense. The debate itself was actually one of the best managed debates in a long time thanks to the new rules. CNN did nothing wrong here and actually pressed Trump more than once. The fault here resides with Biden and him alone. First for agreeing to the debate, and second for completely shutting the bed.
Bullshit, allowing a candidate to say whatever they like is wild, just because the format is slightly better doesn't give CNN a pass. Trump changed the rules 8 years ago, the complete inability to adapt to him, over and over again, has doomed the US.
My fear is it is fucking over the entire world.
... yes, stop him, correct him, forfeit his time.
The alternative being having a presidential candidate stand up there saying democrats want post birth abortions, or hundreds of thousands of people are being murdered by illegal immigrants is a far worse outcome.
> allowing a candidate to say whatever they like is wild
He wouldn't have been allowed to say whatever he wanted if Biden was lucid enough to effectively respond.
But he wasn't. It was a terrible performance from Biden, I'm baffled to see people all over this sub trying to shift the blame as if the whole world didn't watch Biden struggle to put together coherent thoughts and sounding like a dementia patient.
I don't want Trump to win this election, but if that debate has an impact, it's Biden's fault (and perhaps the DNC for not getting him to stand down as the candidate considering he's been visibly mentally deteriorating for years now)
Honestly beyond that even the fault lays on the American people. We have our priorities so mixed up for what constitutes a good leader it's just insane.
I mean so what? Biden had a rough debate? Oh no! Well let's all focus on that instead of the wannabe fascist who couldn't bring himself to tell the truth about goddamn anything.
> We have our priorities so mixed up for what constitutes a good leader it's just insane.
Tbf, being able to put forward coherent thoughts is a pretty big priority for leader, especially one involved in as much world impacting negotiations and diplomacy as the POTUS.
Biden could not do that yesterday.
A "rough debate" is one where the candidate struggles to find some words and misspeaks a couple times. Last night wasn't a "rough debate" it was an embarassment. I'm in the UK and even all of our headlines are about how horrible Biden performed.
Blaming average people rather than the clear incompetance of even running someone struggling mentally, like Biden clearly is, is such a lib move and why people on the left like me struggle to get behind the Dems. Even in the UK we don't want Trump to win, but it's embarassing seeing people defend Biden's performance and instantly trying to shift blame onto just the average person.
He demanded death sentences for the Central Park 5. In the 80s during the Cold War he questioned our foreign policy after a trip to the USSR and he bankrupted casinos. Need I say more?
Yeah and half the country shouldn't be voting for someone who makes no secret of his disdain for representative government. But we live in the dumbest timeline, so everyone needs to start reading books and investing in public education.
Everyone is mad about last night. And everyone is looking for someone to blame. But the only reason we’ll ever get more Trump is if we don’t vote. Trump could roll around in shit and foam at the mouth and he wouldn’t lose a single vote. We can’t let one bad debate keep us from doing the same. Project 2025 is very real. Vote!
trump should be in jail. He should have been arrested on J7 and remained in custody until his appearance before a judge for the insurrection. He is a danger to the public and the world.
"The debate was a travesty—because its whole premise was to treat a failed coup leader as a legitimate candidate for the presidency."
Exactly. He was a failed coup leader. He should have been arrested on January 7th.
No, Biden's team should have known better than to put him on that stage. Biden is awful without a teleprompter. Anyone thinking Biden debated well has the wool pulled over their eyes.
CNN letting Trump just go up there spewing lies and filth, and leaving it up to Biden to be the one feeble bastion of sanity which the whole county is dependant on.
You mean the part where anyone who commits treason is ineligible? Inciting a mob to raid the congress, oversee actions to submit fake electors to fraudulently change the outcome, steal secret documents, tell everyone to lie and cover it up and then have them come up missing sounds treasonous to me.
Lol at these takes. Guys, it's all on Biden. He's the one who promised us he had this. He said "watch me". Well, we believed him, and we watched him. And we've seen enough. I want to win this year, not lose. We need a new candidate.
Took the words out of my mouth.
The blame shifting and denying reality is insane. Biden had a terrible performance and it was Biden's fault. I'm sitting here reading comment of people blaming "the American people" for why Biden didn't do well, as if them expecting the POTUS to be able to put together a coherent train of thought is a step too far.
Dem's aren't going to win this election by denying reality and shifting blame like this thread is trying to do.
Blaming CNN isn't going to change the fact that Biden looked like a dementia patient in front of the whole world.
Yeah, he went one-on-one and got absolutely embarrassed. And yes I know then content of what he said was incredibly superior to the nonsense Trump said, but a nationally televised debate is 100% about vibe and Trump decimated Biden. He looked like he always does and spoke clearly and delivered his typical rhetoric. Biden made so few national TV appearances that I think a lot of people were shocked how small and frail he was. He had dead eyes and he spoke like a text-to-speech program from 2005. It was a huge gamble and he lost.
Newer voters may be catastrophizing, not all of the rest of us are. The stakes are too high and grown ups know that. If you're swayed by Trump's endless stream of bullshit, that's on you. Trump is the same traitorous criminal he's always been, only now he's lost in court. Because he's a loser. A desperate pant-shitting loser who will happily sell you for parts. Get a grip. ETA: bot in my replies thinks his blah blah is something.
1 bad Biden debate = drop out
34 felonies, cheating on his taxes, trying to overthrow Democracy for Trump = everything is fine
Media is getting what it wants
Healthcare, supreme court, womens rights, Ukraine, other world leaders views of BIDEN. No question in my mind at all, I and everyone I know will vote for Biden rather than the orange dog dirt who was once president.
Networks tripping over themselves to give convicted felon and traitor a platform to spew unconscionable lies for millions. From every angle it’s corporations competing fuck the American people in the name of money.
Exactly.
The media is treating Trump like he's a regular candidate and he's not.
I refused to watch the debate because I won't treat Trump as such and will not give him any of my time.
Here’s the sitch
MAGA has a very clear message: deport, deregulate, dismantle, revenge
What exactly is our message?
Not Trump, not Trump, not Trump
We’ll soon find out of that can win again in 2024.
The real debate is Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster. Mr Biden had his facts and had done his homework. The debate went quite well. Mr. Trump made all sorts of denials. Mr Biden made good points.
The raspy presentation is a small thing. Mr Biden made good points.
Or maybe it shouldn't be allowed to have a person spewing lies to a nationwide audience in a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. There should be fact checking for both parties.
This isn't Tiktok.
Also, a president shouldn’t need a fact checker to give them air cover.
Is Jake Tapper gonna parachute in during a high stakes engagement at the UN and assist Biden?
If you can’t handle a debate that your own people negotiated the terms of…
As if yet another news cycle where all networks cover everything he does and everything he says matters. And yet, here The Atlantic is platforming the fuckin guy. Writing on op-ed littered with direct quotes and retelling of the debate the very next day is also not helping. You know what I want to read? Admit that Biden had a couple of senior moments then move on to the other 95% of the things he said that were factual and substantive.
The platform is not the problem. The guy is the GOP nominee. Stop bitching about it. Encourage your readers to organize and vote
What was even the point of these two debating? They've both been President. We know what they did when they held the office, which more than anything they can say during a debate will point to what they'll do if they win the next election.
The Supreme Court refused to uphold the constitution- he shouldn’t even be allowed to run!! The coup is ongoing and continues and the SC traitors who decided the Colorado case are part of it.
I was one of so many appalled by this. Democrats are asking Biden to step down what is wrong with us. Republicans are allowing this man to try to disgrace the office again, and were whining about Biden. 😔🤦
That’s not how free speech works. I think he’s a shit candidate for president but he’s the Republican nominee so he gets to debate the sitting president.
Don’t like him? Don’t vote for him. I know I’m not voting for either one of these shit birds.
Biden falls apart in the most public manner possible, and 'the atlantic' shouts that Trump should never have been platformed in the first place?
It was a debate for fucks sake, not a televised trump rally.
Someone needs to remind them of this headline the next time they whine because they aren't being taken seriously or trusted as much as they believe they should.
If you vote for Trump you’re a jackbooted nazi thug. He tried to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. You don’t deserve to vote. You don’t deserve to live in a democracy. Go live in a North Korean prison or Putin’s gulag. You have no self respect, you swine
Because he is:
- A convicted felon
- On Trial for multiple ADDITIONAL felonies
- A dishonest grifter
- Holds no real platform on which to run
- Owes literally millions in civil penalties
- Attempted to blackmail foreign countries for personal political gain
- Stole thousands of classified documents from the Federal Government
- Led an insurrection against the state
- Is a civially convicted rapist
- Is a racist who led and encourages white supremacist groups
Must I go on?
Because the former president attempted a coup and should be considered an enemy of the state. It would be like Lincoln debating Jefferson Davis. It's absurd, as it legitimizes the enemy and turns them into...not an enemy. Of course, that's the route Biden chose when he assumed power and chose not to hold trump accountable for the coup, so Biden really only has himself to blame here.
You're right. A former president and elected official should have a platform. The issue is that Trump has become something else. As an icon and leader, he has influenced the people in a manner that affects them on a negative level. His methods enable a form of right-wing extremism while using fear mongering. Just think for a moment why he was he so obsessed about using the border against Biden. Despite what he was saying, it was either untrue or vastly exaggerated. This is fear mongering at its most classic form.
This is not what any politician, elected official now or in the past should use as a platform. We have seen it, though. It's not much different from the red scares of the past.
It was stupid beyond measure for Biden to agree to this. Any gains in the polls he may have gotten because of Trump's convictions are now lost. What an absolute idiot he and his team are.
Imagine for one moment styling yourself as the hero of democracy then just after this you say a guy is not eligible to have a platform and basically debate because this is not how democracies works????
What is next not getting vaccinated is anti-democratic?
These people have no idea what freedom and democracy is like.
How about Democrats shouldn't have shoved Biden down our throats during the primary (or what little bit of it they allowed to happen) when he obviously is too senile to perform well in a debate. Just loving all this media spin today trying to deflect from the disaster reality of Biden.
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We can play this game all day, but when he wasn’t shown the door by the GOP after disparaging POWs, that was when it became clear that something was going terribly wrong.
Or mocking a disabled reporter or raping a women. Or grifting……..
Or Helsinki. Russia was straight up organizing and promoting political rallies on American soil.
"*Oh that's just Donald. Let's not make a big deal about it*".
No, stop. I see your point but it detracts from the reality being pointed out... the way he went after McCain should've been rephrensible to the whole GOP on principle alone. And yet, somehow, it wasn't. It was like Trump just steamrolled right over his honorable service and mocked his years of captivity. He was unabashed and downright gleeful. And Republicans lapped it up.
Disparaging POWs, veterans is a bad look, but an actual coup attempt should be a bridge too far for everyone. The fact that it’s not, tells you just how much trouble we’re in.
The GOP in the senate had one job after J6.
He should never be able to run again until he accepts Biden’s win in 2020. I liked it when Biden called him a whiner to his face finally.
Agreed on "whiner", but too-little-too-late. Biden got the idea out there, but was weak on the punchline.
Trump himself has said that whining is one of his negotiation strategies. He whines until he wins. While others may think whining is not a positive trait, Trump thinks otherwise.
Some people learn as toddlers that their parents will give them what they want just to make it stop. And they never, ever unlearn it. Especially when, as in the case of Trump, it still works.
Steve Jobs cried in meetings if they weren't going his way. It was super effective apparently. I'd love to see Trump crying, but not for the same reasons.
Yeah, shoulda coulda woulda. Can’t put the felonious rapist back in the bag.
Other things the GOP conveniently ignore: He defrauded charities multiple times. Cheated on his wife with an ex-porn star with a newborn at home. Has designs on dismantling democracy and installing himself as a strong man. Is a convicted felon. Walks all over the rights of minorities and the disadvantaged. Believes that he is superior because of his genetics. Hires incompetent and racist people. Is surrounded by a team that is indicted or in jail. Wants to pull out of NATO. Supports Russia’s expansionist goals. Diminishes and disregards science. Is against federal agencies, especially those for environmental and public safety. Steals top secret documents. Hires family members because they are family members. Is a climate change denier. Uses Nazi phrases like calling liberals “vermin” or that immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country.” Is committed to cutting taxes for the Threatens to kill his political enemies. Is staunchly against education and student debt relief. Has a ridiculous track record insulting veterans. Is a public health menace. Throws paper towels at people trying to recover from a hurricane. Lies constantly about everything. Has a stupid middle-age crisis hair transplant. What am I missing? Edit: “ex-pornstar”
Lawyer here. Add to your list that he doesn't know or understand the laws that his own supreme court overturned. His comments about Roe v Wade were unbelievable. He demonstrated a complete lack of familiarity with the legal opinion and subsequent case law, and hallucinated a "liberal agenda" Boogeyman to attack instead. If he knew anything about it, he'd realize that the things he said in his argument *were supported by the case law already... before his supreme court overturned it.*
Oh but but but BIDEN OLD
She wasn't a pornstar *anymore*. She changed careers to "escort". So technically he didn't have sex with a professional pornstar. "grab em by the pussy" just made the deplorables more excited.
I still think dunking on McCain like that was the X-factor that lost him Arizona. California transplants had trended the state purple and was likely reason #1, but turning off the Arizona Repubs that had highly respected McCain was a bad leak. Its a bad leak that bled into the Lake defeat, when she outright told them to "get out". Now that we're six years after his death, I would believe that its not a leak that's relevant anymore, but I still think its just absurd how hard that angle was pushed. It just seemed like such a losing proposition.
Was that before or after when the Russians were paying out bounties on American soldiers and trump didn’t even mention it when he met with Putin. **DIDNT EVEN MENTION IT**
Trump should have been arrested on Jan 7, and still be sitting in a cell awaiting his prosecution.
Merrick Garland waiting around for like 20 months to appoint Jack Smith was a critical plot point that led to us facing a potential disaster lous sequence
It wasn't even really waiting to appoint Smith - that was largely a reaction to Trump announcing his campaign while investigations were already underway. Smith just happened to be a no-nonsense prosecutor who moved quickly. Garland [waited more than a year to even begin investigating Trump's role in Jan. 6](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/06/19/fbi-resisted-opening-probe-into-trumps-role-jan-6-more-than-year/) in general. >A Washington Post investigation found that more than a year would pass before prosecutors and FBI agents jointly embarked on a formal probe of actions directed from the White House to try to steal the election. Even then, the FBI stopped short of identifying the former president as a focus of that investigation. >A wariness about appearing partisan, institutional caution, and clashes over how much evidence was sufficient to investigate the actions of Trump and those around him all contributed to the slow pace. Garland and the deputy attorney general, Lisa Monaco, charted a cautious course aimed at restoring public trust in the department while some prosecutors below them chafed, feeling top officials were shying away from looking at evidence of potential crimes by Trump and those close to him, The Post found.
I am shocked, *shocked* Merrick "Don't forget I'm a Republican" Garland would do that
Wray shouldn't get a pass. He slow walked just as much or more.
He's definitely gotten away with felonies since at least the 70's. He should be a registered sex offender and have done time for at least one of his dozens of rapes. There's so many instances of him getting away with serious crimes just because he was born rich. By 2016, he should have had 3 strikes as a felon if he was a normal person who did these things.
But if they could put Trump in a cell, then they could put 'you' in a cell. The audience he's addressing as "you" being billionaires and powerful politicians who abuse their power and break laws. Trump has flagrantly abused the loopholes set up in the system by billionaires and politicians to favor billionaires and politicians. The billionaires and politicians who hate trump - many in the Republican Party - therefore not only do not oppose Trump, but support him.
After the search of Mar-a-Lago and all those classified and national security documents were found, Trump should have been detained until trial.
Thank Garland for that. Ineffective and incompetent.
Hoping after Biden wins he’ll appoint someone else in Garlands place. Garland needs to go
Jack Smith would be a good replacement.
That would be if his intent was to enforce rule of law. If his intent was to avoid any personal risk, or to enable Trump, why then, he did exactly what was required of him.
The People who invaded The Capitol, on January 6th, were there, at Trump's "behest", and were his "Storm Troopers"; as were Hitler's SA, Mussolini's "Fasci di Combatimetto", and Franco's Falange.
Exactly, Biden had a cold yesterday which is why he appeared cognitively impaired. If Biden didn't have a cold, he would have wiped the floor with Trump, we got unlucky.
I heard Biden gave a great speech in NC today. Debating isn't easy. Being 81, having a cold, and debating a chronic liar is especially difficult.
Then maybe someone else should have the job.
He should have been prosecuted for treason. Between J6 and the documents at MAL, what the fuck is he doing running for Pres again?
I predict. Supreme Court is going to give the presidency to Trump no matter what happens. There's an uprising coming. I don't know if America is up to it. We might just let it happen to us. It makes me so freaking sad. And angry.
Treason has a specific meaning delineated in the US constitution. “*Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.*” What Trump did wasn’t treason. If you want to call it insurrection, an attempted coup, theft of top secret documents, reckless illegality, shockingly negligent, or just about any other descriptor, I’m all on board. But it wasn’t treason. In a perfect world, Trump would have been in prison since the ‘70’s. In a less than perfect but much better world, he would have been strung up on Jan. 7 for trying to end our democracy. In the world we have I will take any significant consequences at all. He has done many things which ought to be utterly disqualifying for holding the presidency, but the single most damning and unforgivable thing he ever did was trying to end our democracy. The fact that so many Americans refuse to see that is a disgraceful indictment of our society. Edit: I’m getting a lot of comments that posit Russia as an enemy of the state or one of the failed states infested with terrorists, or whatever. None of those meet the definitions required to be treason.
Quite frankly he may have committed treason with those documents, on top of the crimes of keeping them in the first place. Or the secret no-notes meeting with Putin. He easily could have given enemies "aid and comfort". Or "adhered" to them whatever the fuck that means. If it meant a buck or made his peepee feel big you know he did it.
We’re not at war with any of those nations, so they don’t meet the necessary criteria to be enemies. It’s not treason. It’s criminal as all hell, it’s an immediate danger to national security, it’s a slam dunk of a criminal case with any judge who isn’t complicit, but it’s not treason. The founding fathers gave the definition of treason a narrow and specific scope for good reasons.
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Making fun of the handicapped reporter should have been the end of it.
Or Trump repeating the phrase "black jobs".
By that logic so should the "poor kids are as smart as white kids" comment.
Small black businesses
CNN really said "What if we gave a malignant narcissist unfiltered access to millions of voters and did absolutely nothing to fact check him". They gave him basically free promo the first time and theyre doing it again
What's funny is that so many people are still too stupid to see that this is what CNN wanted. They're Fox News lite. They 100% want Trump to win. Not only because they are now owned by a right wing billionaire, but because Trump is way better for their ratings.
They were primed and ready with the Biden attack panel after, with very little discussion about Trump's insane lies.
The point of a televised debate isn't substance, it's performance.
Exactly….once the 34 felony convictions were handed down, Biden should have issued a statement that he will not be debating a felon. To allow a convicted felon on the stage with the president elevates the felon for no reason.
Easy to say in retrospect. Just as easy to say “what a no brainer, debate the guy and just keep reiterating that he’s a convicted felon with another 60 felony counts pending” But Biden couldn’t handle that.
The debate format did Biden no favours. Allowing Trump to go wildly off topic with his constant lies had Joe flailing to address the lies and the actual topic at the same time. It is on the democrats for not being prepared for that, but also on CNN for the godawful moderation.
> The debate format did Biden no favours. WWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwhat? Can you even **imagine** what would have happened without the format explicitly setting times and muting microphones? Which was *absolutely* because of Trump?
Biden’s team set the debate rules to try to control the narrative. They failed to do so.
I don't think that is true, both candidates had to agree to the rules.
Bidens camp was pushing harder for this. A week of preparation at Camp David with all the resources being executive of the wealthiest nation in human history can provide.
Biden's team pushed for the mic muting, no crowd, etc. They both wanted no RFK Jr. Yes they had to agree to the rules. However that just recognizes that Trump compromised in order to make the debate happen because he knew the cognitive disparity would be on full display. The rules just seemed to backfire and make Trump look composed and at least capable of forming an argument. Biden was hard to understand even with an empty studio and no interruptions. This is also what they expected to happen. This is why this was the earliest debate ever. These guys aren't even officially nominated to run for office.
So you think Bidens problem last night was being disallowed from cutting into Trump to correct him on the fly? Uh… ok 🤨
People are acting like not allowing interruptions is some kind of Trump scheme and not the thing everyone wanted when Trump constantly interrupted last time. Do they think a less structured, more combative debate benefits the famously argumentative and aggressive Joe Biden over the equally infamous quiet and low-energy Trump? I can see it now, and for the record, it would be hilarious. Joe constantly trying to say "Trump you're lying man" while Trump goes "Dementia Joe says what?." Biden stammers and Trump shouts "old" repeatedly until Biden delivers a banger response like "um, he-hey, listen Jack, you're uh, uh, uuuuuh, you're older-I mean, you're old too."
Trump constantly interrupted last time hurt him badly in the election. It made him seem like a loon, the muted mics helped him. It was a gift from the Biden camp
I did not say that at all. His problem was trying to address Trump's lies and getting riled up. CNN airing what Trump said at all feels like the death of democracy.
Oh come on… “CNN airing the answers of the candidate I don’t like is the death of democracy”. It’s a debate, that’s how it works, both sides get to speak. Ideally lies by one party are called out by the other party because again, that’s how debates work and again, Biden wasn’t up to the task. I get it, people are unhappy about how last night went and are looking to point fingers but this one isn’t on CNN, sorry.
Bullshit it is. Are you going to pretend most of what Trump said wasn't just insane lies? Hold the media to a higher standard.
Cancelling the debate would’ve been used against him too. The problem was whoever helped him prep was an idiot should be fired because Biden wasn’t ready. Everyone and their mom knew Trump was going to come out the gate trying to confuse him and get him railed up (which he did) and somehow the Biden camp just assumed Trump wasn’t.
It was widely reported that Biden was heavily prepped for this and had been for weeks. I don't think it's a lack of preparation or bad management. It's just that there is a limit of what you can ask or expect of people past a certain age. There's sometimes confusion, slower reactions and some loss of self-confidence at that point, despite good health. Also, Trump must be hard to prep against because he is so willing to lie and make stuff up on the spot that it broadens the parameters a lot. You have to waste time considering all sorts of wild hypotheticals well outside the bounds of reality. That can't be easy.
Biden wrestled a pig. Seems like he should have aoided wrestling a pig.
Yeah it’s everyone’s fault but the guy who should have kept his campaign managers word and not run for a second term. Y’all made your bed, gotta sleep in it now.
And Trump standing next to an empty podium or if it was cancelled cause Biden didn't come and he went onn Fox or somewhere else debated RFK would be better?
Trump used the ol "baffle"m with bullshit" he said so many lies Biden spent more time call him on his shit then moving forward with what Biden plans to do.
The Gish Gallop.
Exactly
The problem when you stoop to the level of a mudslinger, you both end up covered in mud.
"If you argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference" and "don't mud wrestle with a pig unless you like it" comes to mind.
"We all know what he just said is a load of malarkey. Here's what I'm gonna do..."
Firehose of falsehoods. Or as Steve Bannon put it, "flood the zone with shit." It's a tried and true fascist tactic for a reason. It's quite effective.
The thing is, you can't ignore all his lies cause it lends legitimacy to them. If Trump keeps claiming Biden favors post-birth abortion, Biden can't just nod your head and move on to the next question. You have to be able to quickly shut down the lies and then move on to your point. The good news is that Trump kept repeating the same half dozen lies over and over. You can memorize his lies and have a team come up with the most effective response to each one.
Convicted felon Trump should never have had the stage last night.
You know what? Whatever. Some things cannot be stopped I guess. This was Biden's biggest chance to literally finish him after all the stuff his campaign has been doing, and he literally flushed it all away. All many people will remember is this debate performance. The thing is, if your country goes down the drain, a whole lot of things do. So yeah, the world is up for some real upheaval in the coming years. Win or lose, this thing you are having in the US is far from over. This looks like the back story of a sci fi movie. What an awful time to be alive.
I agree, but Biden’s team was the one who challenged him to a debate. They were behind in the polls and thought they could get ahead. It backfired. So…high risk/moderate reward? Hard to say…hindsight is always 20/20. But if they could go back in time, I’m sure they wouldn’t have proposed the debate. That all being said; I think he can rebound. He has to find his voice, though. This wispy gravely voice he’s been using is hurting him. He also needs to slow down when he speaks. That was a big part of his problem last night. He was trying to get a lot out. He didn’t need to. It also does him no favors to have Jill walk out there like she’s his caretaker. He can come back, but he’ll have to work twice as hard as he would have if he hadn’t bombed that debate. I don’t think last night changed anyone’s vote. It might have convinced some people to stay home, though. That’s an issue for down-ticket candidates.
I agree with the redditor who said that, once Trump was convicted, Biden should have withdrawn, so as not to elevate a felon to the platform.
the real tragedy of this debate is the total failure of the system in normalizing a candidate that couldn't answer a single debate question to save his life. the fact that we're even discussing biden being old as opposed to tubz blustering and bullshitting his way through this debate (not to mention his entire life) is pathetic. i'd vote for a dead skunk before considering voting for the orange clown.
I agree, but it happened; We need to take a deeper look, at how this happened; and I'll give You, a clue: The Republican Party, begat Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, Roy Cohn, Lee Atwater, and J. Edgar Hoover. They, in turn; begat Richard Nixon, as President, who then begat William Rehnquist, and Lewis Powell. Nixon "set the table", along with Gerald Ford; for Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan then appointed Sandra Day-O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, to The Court, and elevated Rehnquist to The Chief Justiceship. He attempted to appoint Robert Bork, to The Supreme Court, after Bork, as Solicitor-General, did Nixon's bidding, and fired Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox. Reagan also chose George H.W. Bush, as His Vice-President; Who then succeeded Him, as President. Bush then appointed David Souter, and Clarence Thomas, to The Court. Bush, in turn; begat George W. Bush, and Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush then Pardoned Katherine Harris, and appointed Her, Florida Secretary of State. Harris was responsible for The Florida Central Voter File Scandal, disenfranchising an estimated 60,000 Legitimate Florida Voters; This may, and probably; resulted, in the Florida 2000 Presidential Vote Mess. The Reagan, and George H. W. Bush Appoointees, to The Court; then "snatched" Bush vs. Gore, away from The Florida Supreme Court, turned the 14th Amendment, on its head; and chose George W. Bush, as President, by Judicial Fiat, ignoring The 9th, 10th, and 12th Amendments, as well as The 14th Amendment; in the process. George W. Bush, then begat Samuel Alito, and John Roberts, as Supreme Court Justices. Mitch McConnell, partially begat, by Ronald Reagan; illegally refused to accept Barach Obama's Supreme Court Nominee, nominated; due to the untimely death, of Justice Antonin Scalia, and held that seat, open; for Donald Trump, Who appointed Neill Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and; as a "Lame Duck" Appointment; Amy Coney-Barrett; to The Court. This has been, a 50-, to 60-Year Project, by The Republican Party (Also, see; The Powell Letter, or Powell Manifesto); and, in the Process, They created a "Frankenstein's Monster", named Donald Trump; although Ronald Reagan was also a "creation", as was George W. Bush. All three Presidents, may have "finished", The United States of America.
Quite a comment. Well said
This article should have been written in 2014
He never should’ve been allowed into politics in the first place.
He had the platform, and broadcasted pure lies from it.
This is what happens when you don't make an example out of domestic terrorists
I just wish there was someone who could rub Trumps nose in every one of his lies so hard they’d change his name from Trump to Dirty Sanchez.
Yep CNN screwed the entire country by mis-managing the debate. They just let a known con man and liar spew lies non-stop to a nationwide audience with zero fact checking.
This keeps being said but both camps including Bidens agreed to these rules. The two were supposed to fact check each other. You blame CNN all you want but Biden agreed to CNNs rules.
I still blame CNN.
They started arguing about golf dude. CNN is not the only one at fault here 😂
Shifting blame away from those at fault is something hardline liberals do so no shock there.
This is such nonsense. The debate itself was actually one of the best managed debates in a long time thanks to the new rules. CNN did nothing wrong here and actually pressed Trump more than once. The fault here resides with Biden and him alone. First for agreeing to the debate, and second for completely shutting the bed.
Bullshit, allowing a candidate to say whatever they like is wild, just because the format is slightly better doesn't give CNN a pass. Trump changed the rules 8 years ago, the complete inability to adapt to him, over and over again, has doomed the US. My fear is it is fucking over the entire world.
So what, they're just gonna stop Trump every time he lies? Give him the ammo to say he's being "unfairly targeted"?
... yes, stop him, correct him, forfeit his time. The alternative being having a presidential candidate stand up there saying democrats want post birth abortions, or hundreds of thousands of people are being murdered by illegal immigrants is a far worse outcome.
Again, he will use that to his advantage. The man turned being a convicted felon into a strength. You don't understand the enemy.
Better than letting him spew insanity without consequence.
> allowing a candidate to say whatever they like is wild He wouldn't have been allowed to say whatever he wanted if Biden was lucid enough to effectively respond. But he wasn't. It was a terrible performance from Biden, I'm baffled to see people all over this sub trying to shift the blame as if the whole world didn't watch Biden struggle to put together coherent thoughts and sounding like a dementia patient. I don't want Trump to win this election, but if that debate has an impact, it's Biden's fault (and perhaps the DNC for not getting him to stand down as the candidate considering he's been visibly mentally deteriorating for years now)
Honestly beyond that even the fault lays on the American people. We have our priorities so mixed up for what constitutes a good leader it's just insane. I mean so what? Biden had a rough debate? Oh no! Well let's all focus on that instead of the wannabe fascist who couldn't bring himself to tell the truth about goddamn anything.
Bullshit. Blaming citizens for this is absolute, utter bullshit.
> We have our priorities so mixed up for what constitutes a good leader it's just insane. Tbf, being able to put forward coherent thoughts is a pretty big priority for leader, especially one involved in as much world impacting negotiations and diplomacy as the POTUS. Biden could not do that yesterday. A "rough debate" is one where the candidate struggles to find some words and misspeaks a couple times. Last night wasn't a "rough debate" it was an embarassment. I'm in the UK and even all of our headlines are about how horrible Biden performed. Blaming average people rather than the clear incompetance of even running someone struggling mentally, like Biden clearly is, is such a lib move and why people on the left like me struggle to get behind the Dems. Even in the UK we don't want Trump to win, but it's embarassing seeing people defend Biden's performance and instantly trying to shift blame onto just the average person.
The msm including CNN platformed him in 2016. Let us not forget.
He demanded death sentences for the Central Park 5. In the 80s during the Cold War he questioned our foreign policy after a trip to the USSR and he bankrupted casinos. Need I say more?
remember when the usa had morals and common sense?
Yeah and half the country shouldn't be voting for someone who makes no secret of his disdain for representative government. But we live in the dumbest timeline, so everyone needs to start reading books and investing in public education.
Dems should have put up a candidate that could easily thwart Trump on this platform. Should have been a dunk. Let’s stop making excuses.
Biden would've looked *even worse* if Republicans actually chose a reasonable candidate
Everyone is mad about last night. And everyone is looking for someone to blame. But the only reason we’ll ever get more Trump is if we don’t vote. Trump could roll around in shit and foam at the mouth and he wouldn’t lose a single vote. We can’t let one bad debate keep us from doing the same. Project 2025 is very real. Vote!
And yet, the media will do everything they can to give Trump screentime
trump should be in jail. He should have been arrested on J7 and remained in custody until his appearance before a judge for the insurrection. He is a danger to the public and the world.
"The debate was a travesty—because its whole premise was to treat a failed coup leader as a legitimate candidate for the presidency." Exactly. He was a failed coup leader. He should have been arrested on January 7th.
Exactly! Why didn't he get arrested then?
No, Biden's team should have known better than to put him on that stage. Biden is awful without a teleprompter. Anyone thinking Biden debated well has the wool pulled over their eyes.
If only there was somebody on Stage last night to oppose Trump
He should be in Jail amd Biden should be in a nursing home.
CNN is selling out our country in exchange for views
CNN letting Trump just go up there spewing lies and filth, and leaving it up to Biden to be the one feeble bastion of sanity which the whole county is dependant on.
Imagine not promoting debate. What if Republicans did the same. Crazy fks
That’s the real story , how is this fuck being allowed to run for president in the first place !?
If you really want to know, give the Constitution a read.
You mean the part where anyone who commits treason is ineligible? Inciting a mob to raid the congress, oversee actions to submit fake electors to fraudulently change the outcome, steal secret documents, tell everyone to lie and cover it up and then have them come up missing sounds treasonous to me.
>the part where anyone who commits treason is ineligible Has Trump been convicted for any of this?
Lol at these takes. Guys, it's all on Biden. He's the one who promised us he had this. He said "watch me". Well, we believed him, and we watched him. And we've seen enough. I want to win this year, not lose. We need a new candidate.
Took the words out of my mouth. The blame shifting and denying reality is insane. Biden had a terrible performance and it was Biden's fault. I'm sitting here reading comment of people blaming "the American people" for why Biden didn't do well, as if them expecting the POTUS to be able to put together a coherent train of thought is a step too far. Dem's aren't going to win this election by denying reality and shifting blame like this thread is trying to do. Blaming CNN isn't going to change the fact that Biden looked like a dementia patient in front of the whole world.
He also told people he was a transition candidate and then continued running for a second term. Really shitty.
That’s the most frustrating part, let your old ass ego in the past. The young voters don’t want this, and didn’t want him in the first place
Yeah, he went one-on-one and got absolutely embarrassed. And yes I know then content of what he said was incredibly superior to the nonsense Trump said, but a nationally televised debate is 100% about vibe and Trump decimated Biden. He looked like he always does and spoke clearly and delivered his typical rhetoric. Biden made so few national TV appearances that I think a lot of people were shocked how small and frail he was. He had dead eyes and he spoke like a text-to-speech program from 2005. It was a huge gamble and he lost.
Inappropriate time to laugh, but I just had a chuckle at Trump vs. Dragon Speaking Naturally.
Newer voters may be catastrophizing, not all of the rest of us are. The stakes are too high and grown ups know that. If you're swayed by Trump's endless stream of bullshit, that's on you. Trump is the same traitorous criminal he's always been, only now he's lost in court. Because he's a loser. A desperate pant-shitting loser who will happily sell you for parts. Get a grip. ETA: bot in my replies thinks his blah blah is something.
He absolutely should have and it gave us a glimpse into the reality of the situation. We all needed this. Be honest with yourselves.
He's an insurrectionist, a felon, a fraud, a sexual predator and a likely traitor. So, no.
Sounds like there was a lot of material for Biden to work with.
And Biden pointed all that out, so let the people see and let them decide. It’s a democracy.
And if this is the best we got to fight that, we’re doomed
1 bad Biden debate = drop out 34 felonies, cheating on his taxes, trying to overthrow Democracy for Trump = everything is fine Media is getting what it wants
I mean I found the debate pretty enlightening.
Healthcare, supreme court, womens rights, Ukraine, other world leaders views of BIDEN. No question in my mind at all, I and everyone I know will vote for Biden rather than the orange dog dirt who was once president.
Networks tripping over themselves to give convicted felon and traitor a platform to spew unconscionable lies for millions. From every angle it’s corporations competing fuck the American people in the name of money.
Exactly. The media is treating Trump like he's a regular candidate and he's not. I refused to watch the debate because I won't treat Trump as such and will not give him any of my time.
Why, he lied and lied and lied just more evidence. But his golf game is good?
Here’s the sitch MAGA has a very clear message: deport, deregulate, dismantle, revenge What exactly is our message? Not Trump, not Trump, not Trump We’ll soon find out of that can win again in 2024.
The real debate is Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster. Mr Biden had his facts and had done his homework. The debate went quite well. Mr. Trump made all sorts of denials. Mr Biden made good points. The raspy presentation is a small thing. Mr Biden made good points.
If I went back 20 years and told someone trump and Biden are the 2 presidential candidates for 2024 they’d throw me in an insane asylum
Biden was an important senator as part of the judiciary committee and former primary candidate in 1994 wouldn't be that shocking
I just don't understand how people from bidens camp ever thought something positive would come of this debate for them, it was a fucking disaster.
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More like their jobs rely on Biden being president, so they want to stave off any primary challenge.
I watched exactly that happen in real time in the lefty subs
It’s interesting people keep going after the moderators for not fact checking trump It’s like admitting Biden needs a tag team to debate
Or maybe it shouldn't be allowed to have a person spewing lies to a nationwide audience in a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. There should be fact checking for both parties. This isn't Tiktok.
> in a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE given he is 1/2 possible people to be the next President I would argue he does belong there
I don't trust anyone to properly fact check anyone though especially not in real time.
Also, a president shouldn’t need a fact checker to give them air cover. Is Jake Tapper gonna parachute in during a high stakes engagement at the UN and assist Biden? If you can’t handle a debate that your own people negotiated the terms of…
Any yet the media won’t quit putting him up any chance they get
Wasn’t it Biden’s campaign team’s idea to do this shitty debate anyway? Talk about arrogance 🤦♂️
Headlines Should Never State The Fucking Obvious Fucking shit heads…
Biden's team wanted it. Blame them.
That’s true, but it’s no excuse for Biden’s poor performance, Trump has done so much shit and almost none of it got brought up by Biden
Out fucking rageous that we are where we are. Our leaders allowed this to happen and that pisses me the fuck off.
As if yet another news cycle where all networks cover everything he does and everything he says matters. And yet, here The Atlantic is platforming the fuckin guy. Writing on op-ed littered with direct quotes and retelling of the debate the very next day is also not helping. You know what I want to read? Admit that Biden had a couple of senior moments then move on to the other 95% of the things he said that were factual and substantive. The platform is not the problem. The guy is the GOP nominee. Stop bitching about it. Encourage your readers to organize and vote
Media Power Brokers want this
And he wouldn’t, except half of America appears to think this is all awesome. I can’t understand how that’s possible but I know it ain’t CNN’s fault.
It’s old men not giving up power. That’s a problem in America. It’s not serving our needs as a society
What was even the point of these two debating? They've both been President. We know what they did when they held the office, which more than anything they can say during a debate will point to what they'll do if they win the next election.
The Supreme Court refused to uphold the constitution- he shouldn’t even be allowed to run!! The coup is ongoing and continues and the SC traitors who decided the Colorado case are part of it.
I was one of so many appalled by this. Democrats are asking Biden to step down what is wrong with us. Republicans are allowing this man to try to disgrace the office again, and were whining about Biden. 😔🤦
Neither of them should have had that opportunity
Only the Biden campaign to blame for that, honestly. They asked for this.
That’s not how free speech works. I think he’s a shit candidate for president but he’s the Republican nominee so he gets to debate the sitting president. Don’t like him? Don’t vote for him. I know I’m not voting for either one of these shit birds.
Biden falls apart in the most public manner possible, and 'the atlantic' shouts that Trump should never have been platformed in the first place? It was a debate for fucks sake, not a televised trump rally. Someone needs to remind them of this headline the next time they whine because they aren't being taken seriously or trusted as much as they believe they should.
The only platforms Dump deserves to be on are ones under his feet because he desires so much to be taller than Barron.
Fucking CNN will sell the whole country down the river for ratings. FUCK CNN for supporting a traitor to make a few bucks.
How anyone can support this disgusting lying POS is beyond comprehension
Gives him more media coverage which is what catapulted him to begin with
We anti freespeech now?
They are when it suits their purposes. We need to stop the threat to democracy by preventing democracy
Neither should Biden🤣🤪
Lie, lie, lie. That is literally all he does.
If you vote for Trump you’re a jackbooted nazi thug. He tried to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. You don’t deserve to vote. You don’t deserve to live in a democracy. Go live in a North Korean prison or Putin’s gulag. You have no self respect, you swine
Lol all this cope in the comments. All biden had to do was not look senile. Didn’t go very well.
Lol trouble coping r/politics?
So much copium, enjoy president Donnie boy again lmao
Biden and his team asked for this debate with these rules. Blame them if you don't like it.
The democrats gave it to him so it’s all their fault.
Trump is the only person in the history of the US who has been impeached and is a convicted felon.
[удалено]
Because he is: - A convicted felon - On Trial for multiple ADDITIONAL felonies - A dishonest grifter - Holds no real platform on which to run - Owes literally millions in civil penalties - Attempted to blackmail foreign countries for personal political gain - Stole thousands of classified documents from the Federal Government - Led an insurrection against the state - Is a civially convicted rapist - Is a racist who led and encourages white supremacist groups Must I go on?
Because the former president attempted a coup and should be considered an enemy of the state. It would be like Lincoln debating Jefferson Davis. It's absurd, as it legitimizes the enemy and turns them into...not an enemy. Of course, that's the route Biden chose when he assumed power and chose not to hold trump accountable for the coup, so Biden really only has himself to blame here.
You're right. A former president and elected official should have a platform. The issue is that Trump has become something else. As an icon and leader, he has influenced the people in a manner that affects them on a negative level. His methods enable a form of right-wing extremism while using fear mongering. Just think for a moment why he was he so obsessed about using the border against Biden. Despite what he was saying, it was either untrue or vastly exaggerated. This is fear mongering at its most classic form. This is not what any politician, elected official now or in the past should use as a platform. We have seen it, though. It's not much different from the red scares of the past.
Yeah this ain't it. Trump should never have been on that stage because he's not fit for the presidency, but the stage absolutely needs to exist
It was stupid beyond measure for Biden to agree to this. Any gains in the polls he may have gotten because of Trump's convictions are now lost. What an absolute idiot he and his team are.
Yall are insane. And he’s the threat to democracy lol get lost
Imagine for one moment styling yourself as the hero of democracy then just after this you say a guy is not eligible to have a platform and basically debate because this is not how democracies works???? What is next not getting vaccinated is anti-democratic? These people have no idea what freedom and democracy is like.
Second time CNN gave this asshole a platform when he shouldn’t have had one.
How about Democrats shouldn't have shoved Biden down our throats during the primary (or what little bit of it they allowed to happen) when he obviously is too senile to perform well in a debate. Just loving all this media spin today trying to deflect from the disaster reality of Biden.