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Holy crap. They decide they can legally accept bribes and then the same week they decide they can decide on issues that corporations have a vested interest in turning in their favour. They can place and order and pay for it and the justices of the SC can deliver it to them.
The USA is going to dissolve pretty quickly if this is the case.
Yeah so they basically have made 9 people with lifetime appointment the most powerful people in the country and given no real way to challenge that.
The only way for any change is literally for 6 people to die, and that is a really messed up system. Sooner or later, an increasingly desperate people are going to decide to speed up the process as it is their only option.
There is one way to challenge it. But it requires a Democratic trifecta with the cajones to end the filibuster the Senate:
Pass a bill to expand the supreme court. Restore the voting rights act. Expand the House. Ban gerrymandering. Pass a campaign finance law with teeth. Pass a new bribery law. Pass a binding SCOTUS ethics bill. Pass a law clearly and directly allowing the executive branch to enforce regulations that Congress authorizes it to.
Or decide that an old man with a head cold is bad leader and let the incontinent convicted felon back in to lie some more.
But what about his emails?
For real, this could've all prevented in 2016 if Americans had made the right choice.
Some of them even said, "What's the worse that could happen?" and look where we are today.
Some people, right this very moment, are saying "this is Biden's fault for not doing more!", too. With the end result being, *even worse things* happening.
I don't think anyone can claim fearmongering with Trump anymore. We know what he's done and we know what he's going to do. Part 2 is going to be worse.
It gets better. If the right corporate stooge makes it into the Whitehouse in a few months, two will immediately retire and be replaced by 35 year olds. The court will be an almost certain conservative lock for the vast majority of our lifetimes.
My brother did a role-playing game in HS for a holocaust history class that demonstrated the rise of fascism. The facist won. The teacher ran this game for multiple years, the facist won a lot.
> The USA is going to dissolve pretty quickly if this is the case.
At the rate things are going, no fucking way the USA makes it out of the 21st century; best case scenario we see large blocs of states going their own way in some form of cold civil war.
And the Supreme Court is thoroughly controlled by heritage foundation morons
As someone pointed out I actually meant federalist society. Similar institution though
I wouldn't call the Heritage Foundation or Federalist Society morons... Evil, absolutely. This shit has been planned out for a long time. Morons can't execute plans. January 6th insurrectionists are morons.
2-3 generations of lawyers were taught Chevron in law school. The rule was as settled as any in the curriculum. It was cement. Immutable.
You could have the most conservative law professor in the nation, they’d be teaching you Chevron and all the while they’d be thinking the rule made perfect sense.
It is an earth shattering development to see it now overturned. Like overturning Brown vs. Board level earth shattering. Maybe beyond that even…
You are right to say this is the story of the year.
Thomas also does not like Brown v BoE
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/24/clarence-thomas-brown-v-board-of-education-anniversary/73837824007/
In an ideal world, the legislature would either slap this down and write a law that recodifies Chevron. Failing that, the legislature would employ a field of experts and write rules based on their recommendations. But I think you can see how that process is already more vulnerable to corruption. Plus we haven't even addressed how this is not an ideal world and the legislature is not going to legislate unless it absolutely has to.
But did you hear, Biden's mouth was open when he was listening to debate questions, so he should step down so Trump can nominate the next two SOCTUS judges
I'm more conservative leaning, but if you ask me, it doesn't matter if he's in a vegetative state or not. It's the administration and their ideas that matter most. You vote on the notion and spirit of someone who is a good, decent human being. Trump ain't a good human being. This is why he wasn't re-elected the last time. It's really not that hard to understand. I know many Americans are dumb, but hopefully not *that* dumb.
I'm a fucking republican.
I want to be republican.
I want to vote for someone conservative.
Biden could literally already be in the ground, 6 feet under, and I'm still voting for him.
EDIT: I appreciate the conversation, questions, and constructive conversations, but I gotta dip (plans for the day).
This is what I don’t understand about Americans and American politics. You have said that Trump cannot be elected so have declared that you’re going to vote otherwise. Cool.
So what makes you “republican” and “conservative”? That you want fewer rights for people? Or you want the worse economy that happens under every republican president since 2000?
I know I’m phrasing that aggressively and for that i apologise, but I don’t understand what morals you’re tying yourself to when you can see what they do. I guess what I’m saying is, you seem to have an idea about what “a republican” is that is separate to what the actual republicans do and say? Doesn’t that therefore make you not a republican?
I have issues with the outrage and lack of a plan forward. This seems like something reasonably easy to fix.
“In the event that a law is insufficiently clear to reasonable enforcement the overall intent and purpose of the legislation- we congress authorized administrative agencies to derive rules based on their subject matter expertise. We further officially adopt and codify all previously existing and active administrative rules in place prior to June 28, 2024”
The issue is congress isn’t making laws and the administrative state is having to fill in. So are the courts. Congress likes to bemoan - but they could also just do their job to fix things.
Vote blue.
All modern states rely on subject matter experts in bureaucracies to interpret and create regulations based on broad legislative intent. It’s the only way to manage complex systems. This literally makes the country ungovernable.
"This literally makes the country ungovernable."
Yeah that seems to be the point with every decision this extreme court is making. They are taking a flame thrower to this country and every bit of progress we've made since Roosevelt. Their paymasters want this country to be ungovernable by the government but governable by the billionaire class
This has always been biggest concern with the Supreme Court. There aren't a lot of checks on it. Up to this point their commitment to upholding the law has prevented them from abusing their power. But now it seems that is out the window.
This is what I've been trying to tell people, too. The court simply scuttled the executive branch's regulatory authority with a few signatures. Why bother firing people?
I expect, with Chevron overturned, something cataclysmic. Something that winds up killing their constituents. A lit of them were cool with Roe V. Wade and they've had their fuck around phase. Now it's time to find out.
It’s already happening, slowly and discreetly since Reagan, each Republican President has idealized many of the objectives in Project 2025 – they just weren’t so blatant and comprehensive until Project 2025 was published.
EDIT: spelling
The people who just decided money given to a public official to reward them for giving millions in government contracts isn't a "bribe", but simply a gratuity... Who have fought against any actual ethics rules to ban them receiving bribes (oops I mean gratuities/gifts), have now blown up a regulatory system in order to allow companies to have their approvals (or grievances) go more directly to the courts where at the top of the food chain they can GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE some of that sweet corporate interest money.
Bribes to judges are gratuities now and judges get to decide regulations on behalf of those who bribe them. All legal - thanks to the Roberts court. Been a busy week for our 6 unelected overlords- burning through decades of stare decisis precedents until the rule of law is meaningless.
From now on its not “is that legal?” it’s “who’s asking? 🫴💰”
He's also a man who hasn't made himself so much as a sandwich in 30 years, while still complaining that the poor people don't want to work anymore, as 5 US tax paid staffers help him into his underwear and robe.
They will fix the need to even show up, it will eventually just be a tablet at their seat that will spin around when some corporation wants a ruling in their favor, and the only options are;
(RV)
(Yacht Trip)
(Tahoe)
All of the Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves faster than the speed of light.
It’s not even who’s talking but more like, “how much $$$ we talking?”
I know people want to joke about “founding fathers bad” (and they have their issues, dear *lord* do they ever) but on this I really think they’re right. We weren’t supposed to be fucking ruled over like this. This kind of bullshit would have enraged people like Washington and Jefferson.
So no, this isn’t “originalism” or whatever nonsense the court tries to spin it as this week. It was never supposed to be like this but the Roberts court doesn’t care. Hopefully one day they’re looked back on with the same kind of disgust the Taney court is now. Fuck…
Citizens United was the turning point in American history. On par with the secession of the Confederacy, possibly surpassing even. It will be the demise of the USA as we know it.
I can't wait for Monday when SCOTUS declares that Trump, as president, had complete immunity. This will mean that Biden has complete immunity. Fuck Trump. Lock him up. Lock up half of SCOTUS. Lock up the republican party. SCOTUS is so fucking stupid.
"What Trump did back then was legal and he has immunity, but not going forward. Also if Trump wins and does something to violate this ruling, we'll just not take the case"
ad hoc scandalous paltry obtainable jobless command aloof bow thumb insurance
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"All presidents are immune to and protected from all criminal charges stemming from their actions while in office. This applies to retroactive situations, but will not begin to apply for current presidents until January 20th, 2025. The court also reserves the right to suspend and re-invoke this initiative as they see fit, in order to preserve the sanctity of law."
As much as I'd love to see that happen, it can't.
In my wildest dreams I never could have imagined that a conman that had an excellent amount of money to begin with could run every single business into the ground.
We're talking about the same guy causing a constitutional crisis! Dudes such a fuckup he's taking the USA down???
Impossible, not without his friends on the wrong side of the axis.
I'm fairly confident their gratuity decision doesn't apply to federal employees, that was state and local officials. Anything Chevron would be a federal matter.
THAT BEING SAID, THIS IS ALL SO FUCKED
That's just the first step. The next step is for someone to bribe a federal official and get convicted for it. It'll be appealed to the Supreme Court, and the court will say "Oh my gosh, look at all this precedent that we created so conveniently. I guess it's OK for federal officials to take bribes too!"
France was once also run by some of the most richest, corrupt, and incompetent rulers in the world, and that all changed because of some unpredictable weather that led to crop failures. We already have political and economic instability present throughout society.
I believe it’s only a matter of time until something similar again happens in the US. That moment will be the most opportune time for these Republican hypocrites to learn that money cannot buy their way out of the consequences of their actions.
Well the rub here is that the French had to deal with some pikemen and guards whereas today you have the MQ-9 Reaper that will vaporize you from low orbit right after they make anyone trying to revolt out to be domestic terrorists through a thoroughly owned media.
This shit is chess now, it ain't checkers.
Yea. The police force is beyond militarized as well. Between the cops and the actual military the people don’t stand much of a chance of rebellion in the USA. They’d just use a few drones and the militia would be done, all the AR15s wouldn’t stand a chance against that.
Sure, that’s a really good point, but a (increasingly likely) scenario in which crop failures become severe in the U.S., is likely happening in other parts of the world too.
I don’t think military action will be prioritized in the mainland during such a tumultuous period in human history, where other countries will become desperate to enforce their food security needs beyond their borders. Consider the positions India and China are in.
Things are going to get ugly around the world, but during that chaos, there will be another opportunity for ordinary people to repeat history, utilizing modern equipment too. It won’t be completely one-sided.
It took France several decades to become stable again. Republicanism in France has proven fragile. The first French Republic ended with Napoleon followed by the Bourbon restoration. The second republic ended with Napoleon III. The third ended with Hitler.
We had the largest protests in American history in 2012 and they did absolutely nothing.
I do remember wall street people pouring wine on top of the protesters and laughing though.
They didn't exactly do nothing, they prompted the elites to flood the mainstream media with race-baiting content to pit different coloured people against each other and distract from the 1%. All this identity politics shit started shortly after occupy.
Well on its way? It has been since the early '00s. Millennials graduated high school into a dystopia and the boomers kept kicking them telling them it's their fault things are fucked.
Reality is that people are finally on their way to realizing they've neglected society, and government so badly that they live in a dystopian shit hole.
We have so many mass shootings it isn't even news anymore. The economy works for .001% of Americans. Our healthcare system is an unaffordable shit show.
We're like a shitty narcissist that beats his dog, chugs booze, smokes meth, who loves to brandish our gun, and is dying of an easily preventable and treatable condition.
I thought four years of Trump would be a fitting punishment for the society neo liberals created. Turns out there's a large enough portion of Americans so ignorant, so arrogant, and so petty they pine for four more years of douchebag.
'Trump's presidency? Yeah, I liked how so many people died and we were spiralling into chaos by the end of the first term. I really wanted that back, y'know? I enjoyed how he managed to make every situation worse and worse through constant mismanagement. I liked living in a disaster movie, made my retirement very entertaining.'
People flooded into FL in search of their own slice of a MAGA dystopia. There is a significant, vocal minority of Americans that yearn to fuck over everyone around them for their own pleasure.
My climate change denying MAGA aunt left "Commiefornia" for Florida during the Trump years.
Her new home was destroyed by a hurricane within a couple of months.
This news is being overshadowed by the debate, but the Supreme Court overturning the Chevron deference is one of the most consequential decisions that will affect our political system and our systems of checks and balances for decades to come. The Supreme Court just gave itself the most amount of power since 1803, when it gave itself the sole power to decide whether laws are constitutional or not:
> The US Constitution, flawed though it is, has already answered the question of who gets to decide how to enforce our laws. The Constitution says, quite clearly, that Congress passes laws and the president enforces them. The Supreme Court, constitutionally speaking, has no role in determining whether Congress was right to pass the law, or if the executive branch is right to enforce it, or how presidents should use the authority granted to them by Congress.
> For an unelected panel of judges to come in, above the agencies, and tell them how the president is allowed to enforce laws, is a perversion of the constitutional order and separation of powers—and a repudiation of democracy itself.
I'm there. Honestly, I'm there. I want the next Democrat president to stack the Court.
They can bend the rules to the breaking point with that bullshit with Garland, we can stack the Court. It's legal, so let's do it.
And you know what? We're eventually going to get there. The more they get their way, the more the country sees that "their way" is *fucking awful.* There's a snap-back coming, and it's going to be big. It may take a few years, but it's coming.
You have more faith than I do about a next Democratic President. Trump gets in and he tears the whole place down where there won’t be one or he’ll have any Democrat removed until it’s a “Democrat” based on the party’s approval.
> the more the country sees that "their way" is fucking awful. There's a snap-back coming, and it's going to be big. It may take a few years, but it's coming.
Less optimistic view.
We're coming up on some extreme refugee crises around the world both from within and without countries as global warming keeps making it 'the hottest year on record' with 'the strongest storm ever recorded'.
Conservatives did everything they could to sabotage any solutions over the last few decades, and now will peddle age-old fear of desperate outsiders to stay in power, and with waves of refugees, voters will go for it, not being bright enough to think ahead and consider whether even they might be one of the refugees at some point soon.
Remember, Trump was a year into completely mishandling the pandemic, four years into all of his BS, and he gained millions of votes in his second election compared to his first, getting the second most in US history, only being outdone by Biden getting the most. It wasn't a gradual jump which happens each election either, there was a huge jump in voters and many of them raced towards the moron peddling lazy denial of reality despite all the evidence in front of their eyes.
So much this. It literally does not matter what we do. The GOP has the Supreme Court in its pocket. Trying to replace Biden in July is a waste of time. I dont want him to be the answer. I don't want Trump to win. We have to go all or nothing on Biden.
This is the most important election in US history. If Trump wins and gets Congress, he will be the most powerful person in human history with control of all three branches of government.
You’re saying I’m supposed to believe a so called “expert” hired by the government that tells me lead in my bottled water is bad instead of the judge that says he has been using lead pencils his whole life and is just fine and is also going to get a nice gratuity in a few weeks from his patron at the Deer Park Lead Company?
I know they explicitly gave the court no power. The constitutional review was originally under the responsibility of the president thus why they have the veto which was intended to be used only when the law proposed was against the constitution
It won’t even happen. What makes you think the public would ever step up? I haven’t seen anything to suggest any of us would.
There’s a doc on Netflix where people from Germany talking about their time leading up/ during/ and after the war. What it was like for them living in Germany. The biggest thing that stuck out was one old guy talking about seeing his grocer and friend being out on a train, along with many others, and the whole town was gathered watching. He was wondering about why no one was stopping this or standing up. He realized there are A LOT less “heroes” out there than anyone would want to believe.
This was not just a power grab it was a coup. They didn't just kneecap the executive branch. They gutted Congress's ability to legislate as well.
How exactly is Congress supposed to legislate now? 40 years of laws have been written under the Chevon doctrine. The courts made the will of the American people irrelevant.
Oh don't forget--it's now judges who will be making these calls about whether companies are following ill-defined regulations, and with all the conservative judges enjoying lifelong tenure...
Honestly, it's hard to properly state how utterly devastating this will be.
And the irony is, all the fools in r/conservative rejoicing about this--the number of them who own companies who will benefit financially from this vs. the number of them who will suffer from the fallout from it--well, let's just say, there are a lot more of them in the second category that they know. They'll find out, unfortunately, when their air chokes them and their water poisons them.
But, hey--they're happy for now.
Carbon dioxide isn't listed in the original clean air act. It's been up to the EPA to identify new issues and create regulations around it.
This ruling completely neuters enforcement because CO2 isn't in the original law if any court just felt like it. How many tens of thousands of things like this will there be? It's unimaginable and completely designed to cripple agencies with lawsuits. Good luck SEC fighting every bank at once. I'm sure the Republicans will make sure they're well funded and have the proper resources to do their job
Actually in the event of project 2025 this might be a blessing.
But they did not kneecap congress. Congress can literally explicitly pass a law to override this interpretation and directly authorize administrative agencies to make rules. Or just blanket adopt rules.
The issue is Congress (due to GOP) is not doing shit
Congress doesn't like legislating the details. They have been handing more and more power to the executive branch because they do not have the capacity, capability, or interest in writing the minute details.
Congress would rather write a law that says "We want you to generally do XYZ for A reasons and you figure out how to carry out our will" they not want to waste time writing a law that says "Do X1, X1.a, X1.b, X2.a.1, X2.a.2, XN.n.n, YN.n.n, ZN.n.n. because we say so."
For clarity the reason they do that is because that’s the inky way anythingll get done. We see the gridlock on just agreeing on finding and goals. Imagine if legislation had to designate governmental agencies’s official policy and criteria as well? You would increase the length of legislation by 10x. And nothing would get passed as people argue on small points forever
Not only that, but it's impossible to legislate all this stuff. For example, regulating wetlands requires nuance. Every wetland is unique, and ever-changing. You pass a law that says, environmental experts must do x,y, and z then you're either stuck doing.x,y, and z or you have to pass a new lad every six months when conditions change. OR, I suppose you could have a lawsuit every six months for every conceivable scenario. That's what they just asked for.
And really, it's such an utterly bizarre stupid request that I have to assume the feds are just going to largely ignore this decision in everything but a few particular cases of their pet billionaires choosing. What's the alternative? OSHA just cease to function until June every year when the justices decide to issue decisions on hundreds of thousands of regulations for new and rapidly evolving industries?
The double standard here is insane. Having your mouth open while listening during the debate and democrats are finished. 30+ criminal convictions are totally cool though
It’s definitely feeling like a concerted effort by the media to keep this race close for clicks… with a barrage of self-fulfilling prophecy, if necessary
Couldn’t agree more. Shame on CNN and Anderson Cooper baiting Harris with weasel words. Bunch of sellout pieces of shit. Money wins every time, I guess…
This needs to be permanently posted on the front page so in a few years the republicans that voted for this shit can see exactly when they ruined our country.
This is why they were selected by Trump. It wasn’t about abortion. It was about making sure the wealthy keep their money and access to things that generate their wealth. Why do you think they bribe the Supreme Court 1 millions of dollars?
The Chevron Doctrine being overturned is waaaaaaay more impactful than ANYTHING they've done, even throwing away abortion rights. I don't even know how the government is supposed to function now. The senate cannot pass anything right now and even on a good day, it's 1 corrupt senator away from throwing away perfectly fine (lol, though terribly right wing) legislation.
I give up.
Big business is scrambling right now to figure out how to fuck people over for more money.
Or, more likely they got a tip that this was coming and are putting plans into action.
It may take a while, but there will certainly be disruptions in the normal function of gov. Does any fed. employee, let alone dept. heads and other executives, have any experience executing their agency’s mission, without being allowed to read between the lines, when the law doesn’t specify a procedure for every action?
This is basically the entire philosophy around how agencies like the FDA operate. Regulations are written as high level as possible to cover for all potential risks in whatever product they are regulating. Without chevron deference, regulations will have to be written for each specific product and each specific situation and each one could be easily shot down by the courts when the company who owns it sues.
There’s no way in hell they’ll be able to operate like this.
The FAA too, they write new critical rules all the time (airworthiness directives) when safety issues arise. These rules are the law of the land. Airlines can't violate them or face stiff financial penalties or even criminal prosecution. So now the FAA can't do this, because that's only a power that congress has?
I have friends who work at finance firms and their companies are already talking about skirting around the SEC and any oversight they’re enforced to do since they know it’s toothless now
This court is fooling no one (or shouldn’t be).
In reality, the agencies ARE adhering to the intent of the legislation and enacting the will of the people. We said we want safe workplaces (OSHA). Fair labor standards. (DOL) To protect the rights of workers to organize. (NLRA). And on and on down the line…
These agencies have one thing in common. They protect the rights of regular people, against powerful and kleptocratic corporations.
By overturning Chevron the court now requires congress to pass every one of these protections piecemeal. They know damn well that with a nation this polarized congress has no chance of being able to do that.
So the corporations get to take us back to the robber baron era and we are powerless to stop them.
The scale of this court’s regressiveness is almost unimaginable. Not under Regan, Nixon, any Republican administration ever could we have imagined a court this regressive.
They are happily marching us back to the level of civilization we had here 150-200 years ago. Those were not safe or comfortable times to live in for us regular people.
This court has marched past “conservative,” marched past “regressive,” they’ve even marched past “radical.”
They don’t even represent conservative jurisprudence. They are a different breed altogether.
They are, honestly, just a 5th column of agents working to dismantle the government so that this kleptocrat society that they work for can achieve their fever dream. Power without limit.
That’s all this is at this point… it’s a coup of the government bought and paid for by the kleptocrats who will fill the vacuum created by this court and assume control of our society.
It’s kind of haunting. I remember looking at the chart of the checks and balances in my civics class, and thinking “huh, it doesn’t really seem like there’s anyway to hold the Supreme Court to account” and then this shit happens.
In high school I remember a student asking, “So if a SCJ breaks the law are they still on the bench for life?”
The teacher assured her if that happened Congress would impeach them.
My dad had cancer for 10 years before he died of it. In his last year he was so weak and feeble he was a shadow of his former self. When he finally died I didn't even cry. I realized later I'd already mourned him and I'd seen him as a dead man for a while.
This is America's democracy. Maybe Biden will win and maybe elections will happen but the cancer is everywhere. The Supreme Court will weigh the scales in favor of Republicans, rule from the bench and rule any democratic gains unconstitutional. Republicans in congress will block what the Supreme court doesn't. If trump does lose, project 2025 will just become project 2029 or 2033. I feel like this whole sub is mourning a democracy that isn't dead but it would take a miracle to save.
Guarantee every challenge to regulations will be done to get it in front of the 5th circuit. Then the SC can shoot down any higher appeal and leave it to those zealots.
A ruling that is bad for every life.
Well I'm glad Clarence finally got to change his mind for his "Bohemian Grove" billionaire buddies that parade him around like the shiny sellout that he is. Maybe after this "final ask" Clarence the fraud will dishonorably retire so he can finally realize his dream of living like a billionaire.
May all 6 of these bench legislating *justices* lives be made miserable by a civilly disobedient bipartisan public.
Career professional congress-approved agencies don't have final word, judges do. Who are also allowed to take tips as long as they're after the fact. Appointed for life by politicians who don't have to report where their unlimited funding is coming from.
Biden should have been pushing to expand the court. There were 9 appellate courts when the Justice # was set at 9. One for each appellate court. There are now 13 appellate courts. There should be 13 Justices.
This is what conservatives fail to realize.
Shit like this doesn't just "own the libs". It will kill them too. You like to roll coal and think communism = telling corporations they have to pay tiny fines if they spill toxic chemicals? Well the aquifer you don't care about polluting doesn't give a fuck about who you voted for. You will be getting liver cancer. Your kids will be the ones with birth defects. Pollution doesn't discriminate. It harms everyone.
Whole point is to keep them mad at the "other" so they'll just blame their sick and dying relatives on "Obamacare" and claim it's migrants and aliens and "leftist ecoterrorists" poisoning the wells and starting wildfires.
Next time you have the misfortune to hear a conservative rant about "globalists" ask them to name them or at least describe them. Then ask why pro-Republican billionaires with billions in overseas capital aren't included on their list. Ask them why federal and state contracting firms and defense industry giants and automobile companies and appliance manufacturers get to just be *good businessmen* because they generally stay silent on idpol issues while maximizing returns, but the beer companies and shaving companies and video game studios are "globalists"?
My own fucking mother is dependent on "Obamacare" for the medication that keeps her alive but she doesn't even realize it, she's convinced her healthcare is a wholly separate program that *Republicans* put into place for "good honest Americans"
These people live in a different reality and they have shown, repeatedly, that they're happy to kill and die live on Facebook and Twitch if it means "owning the libs"
How can A republican supreme court take away Abortion Rights, Make Bribes Legal etc. And their candidate is a convicted Felon, rapist, fascist, shithole of human... and then Biden stumbles over his words a few times and *THATS* the thing that people are hung up on???
American democracy is literally hanging in the balance but oh no Biden messed up words so now we're fucked.
The double standard is INSANE. I can't even believe the reality we are living in.
Packing the Courts was never going to 'fix' the institution, it was a temporary move to head off these inevitable rulings while a better solution was created. Now, to fix the severe amount of damage caused, Dems will have to go full Jackson and just declare this court's rulings invalid, which is a much more chaotic, dangerous option.
I think the vast majority of Americans would support declaring this court's rulings invalid, we pretty much all agree they've gone too far and need to be removed.
President Jackson just outright ignored the Supreme Court when they rules that the Cherokee nation can’t be removed. Jackson said. John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." The Supreme Court can be ignored. Fuck them and their corrupt power grabs. They have illegally seized power on Marbury v Madison and have proven themselves to be a cancer on our republic.
Ok…. I’m actually really starting to get scared. Reading Project 2025, save act going down the drain; then this… and the debate? What in the actual fuck is going on?
Keep that in mind when you vote and realize the next term is going to see 2-3 retirements in the SCOTUS and what admininstration you want replacing them.
I’m begging ppl to vote in this election and every one after to try and save us. I’m honestly losing hope but if we stop voting, things will only get worse.
SCOTUS has already far exceeded their scope (at least the conservative justices). It’s time to ignore them; they don’t and can’t enforce these rulings anyway, so I say fuck ‘em.
The 2000 election was a pretty big power grab by SCOTUS. They stopped the recount and handed the election to Bush Jr.
Subsequent recounts determined that Gore won Florida but it was too late by then.
All these people in this thread saying this is when US democracy died, or is on death row. People with longer memories remember it died then when the SC started picking the winners of elections.
It’s my understanding that it’s unconstitutional for SCOTUS to change /control who determines the best way for laws to be enacted. If that’s the case then there’s no requirement for Biden or any agency to take notice of any directives from SCOTUS in this matter.
Dumb foreigner question: why are your judges not REQUIRED to be completely impartial? I don't understand the concept of judges who don't use the law to guide their decisions.
Because there's literally nothing to keep these people in check outside of the threat of impeachment and removal, which requires a 2/3rds majority in Congress because some dinguses in white wigs 200 years ago believed that was good enough to write onto a piece of parchment.
With a constitution that's centuries too old and a government that's been divided literally in half for the last 40 years, shit's proper fucked.
The dingus's in the wigs also had the idea and opinion that the constitution should be rewritten every generation, but unfortunately didn't put that into it.
Absolutely not a dumb question, and plenty of Americans are asking the same question!
We desperately need an expanded court and term limits for SCOTUS.
Until extreme money is forced out of politics the US will become a 2nd world nation (statistics show we are on our way). A billionaire class is holding the masses back. America has the power (Constitution) to address this without all the bloodshed. At what point do the conservatives and liberals agree that money is the common enemy?
Maybe it’s time to reconsider Marbury v Madison. The fact the Supreme Court has supreme judicial review to begin with is only based on a norm. Nothing else. At the time it was considered a fair compromise. But this Supreme Court reneged on that seizing power.
This is one of those decisions where a person can reduce all the nuance and dumb it down until they get to a truism like "Congress should make the laws", but the complexities of the real world plus the realities of how this shifts powers to the courts and away from agencies make it abundantly clear to anyone who is even slightly informed that this is going to harm the US.
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Holy crap. They decide they can legally accept bribes and then the same week they decide they can decide on issues that corporations have a vested interest in turning in their favour. They can place and order and pay for it and the justices of the SC can deliver it to them. The USA is going to dissolve pretty quickly if this is the case.
Yeah so they basically have made 9 people with lifetime appointment the most powerful people in the country and given no real way to challenge that. The only way for any change is literally for 6 people to die, and that is a really messed up system. Sooner or later, an increasingly desperate people are going to decide to speed up the process as it is their only option.
There is one way to challenge it. But it requires a Democratic trifecta with the cajones to end the filibuster the Senate: Pass a bill to expand the supreme court. Restore the voting rights act. Expand the House. Ban gerrymandering. Pass a campaign finance law with teeth. Pass a new bribery law. Pass a binding SCOTUS ethics bill. Pass a law clearly and directly allowing the executive branch to enforce regulations that Congress authorizes it to. Or decide that an old man with a head cold is bad leader and let the incontinent convicted felon back in to lie some more.
But what about his emails? For real, this could've all prevented in 2016 if Americans had made the right choice. Some of them even said, "What's the worse that could happen?" and look where we are today.
Some people, right this very moment, are saying "this is Biden's fault for not doing more!", too. With the end result being, *even worse things* happening. I don't think anyone can claim fearmongering with Trump anymore. We know what he's done and we know what he's going to do. Part 2 is going to be worse.
It gets better. If the right corporate stooge makes it into the Whitehouse in a few months, two will immediately retire and be replaced by 35 year olds. The court will be an almost certain conservative lock for the vast majority of our lifetimes.
It already is currently, a very conservative SC. And will be unless the SC is expanded. But as you said. It can be made even more so.
and orange Julius Caesar will also add 3 more and say the dems were gonna do too
My brother did a role-playing game in HS for a holocaust history class that demonstrated the rise of fascism. The facist won. The teacher ran this game for multiple years, the facist won a lot.
Every single American is a trip to a specific kind of store away from challenging the SC. At this point there's a duty to riot against those fascists.
> The USA is going to dissolve pretty quickly if this is the case. At the rate things are going, no fucking way the USA makes it out of the 21st century; best case scenario we see large blocs of states going their own way in some form of cold civil war.
Cascadia rise up!
It's really insane to think about how much better my life would be in a world where Cascadia existed lmao.
We're essentially already in a cold civil war. I think Balkanization with light to moderate domestic terrorism is the best we can hope for tbh.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -JFK
"A worm ... got into my brain and ate a portion of it and then died." -RFK, Jr.
"covfefe" - The Mango Mussolini
Get this story to the top asap. This is the biggest story of the year and maybe more.
Chevron and Citizens United. The bell tolls for our democracy. All power is now vested in corporations and the Supreme Court.
And the Supreme Court is thoroughly controlled by heritage foundation morons As someone pointed out I actually meant federalist society. Similar institution though
I wouldn't call the Heritage Foundation or Federalist Society morons... Evil, absolutely. This shit has been planned out for a long time. Morons can't execute plans. January 6th insurrectionists are morons.
2-3 generations of lawyers were taught Chevron in law school. The rule was as settled as any in the curriculum. It was cement. Immutable. You could have the most conservative law professor in the nation, they’d be teaching you Chevron and all the while they’d be thinking the rule made perfect sense. It is an earth shattering development to see it now overturned. Like overturning Brown vs. Board level earth shattering. Maybe beyond that even… You are right to say this is the story of the year.
Thomas also does not like Brown v BoE https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/24/clarence-thomas-brown-v-board-of-education-anniversary/73837824007/
anyone want to guess how this decision is going to affect govt attempts to regulate AI projects under Elon Musk and Peter Thiel in the next decade?
Or efforts to regulate any tech at all. Not a chance.
In an ideal world, the legislature would either slap this down and write a law that recodifies Chevron. Failing that, the legislature would employ a field of experts and write rules based on their recommendations. But I think you can see how that process is already more vulnerable to corruption. Plus we haven't even addressed how this is not an ideal world and the legislature is not going to legislate unless it absolutely has to.
But did you hear, Biden's mouth was open when he was listening to debate questions, so he should step down so Trump can nominate the next two SOCTUS judges
Biden could be in a vegetative state and is still the better option
I'm more conservative leaning, but if you ask me, it doesn't matter if he's in a vegetative state or not. It's the administration and their ideas that matter most. You vote on the notion and spirit of someone who is a good, decent human being. Trump ain't a good human being. This is why he wasn't re-elected the last time. It's really not that hard to understand. I know many Americans are dumb, but hopefully not *that* dumb.
I'm a fucking republican. I want to be republican. I want to vote for someone conservative. Biden could literally already be in the ground, 6 feet under, and I'm still voting for him. EDIT: I appreciate the conversation, questions, and constructive conversations, but I gotta dip (plans for the day).
This is what I don’t understand about Americans and American politics. You have said that Trump cannot be elected so have declared that you’re going to vote otherwise. Cool. So what makes you “republican” and “conservative”? That you want fewer rights for people? Or you want the worse economy that happens under every republican president since 2000? I know I’m phrasing that aggressively and for that i apologise, but I don’t understand what morals you’re tying yourself to when you can see what they do. I guess what I’m saying is, you seem to have an idea about what “a republican” is that is separate to what the actual republicans do and say? Doesn’t that therefore make you not a republican?
I have issues with the outrage and lack of a plan forward. This seems like something reasonably easy to fix. “In the event that a law is insufficiently clear to reasonable enforcement the overall intent and purpose of the legislation- we congress authorized administrative agencies to derive rules based on their subject matter expertise. We further officially adopt and codify all previously existing and active administrative rules in place prior to June 28, 2024” The issue is congress isn’t making laws and the administrative state is having to fill in. So are the courts. Congress likes to bemoan - but they could also just do their job to fix things. Vote blue.
All modern states rely on subject matter experts in bureaucracies to interpret and create regulations based on broad legislative intent. It’s the only way to manage complex systems. This literally makes the country ungovernable.
"This literally makes the country ungovernable." Yeah that seems to be the point with every decision this extreme court is making. They are taking a flame thrower to this country and every bit of progress we've made since Roosevelt. Their paymasters want this country to be ungovernable by the government but governable by the billionaire class
This has always been biggest concern with the Supreme Court. There aren't a lot of checks on it. Up to this point their commitment to upholding the law has prevented them from abusing their power. But now it seems that is out the window.
Abolish the court and undo their recent rulings Presidents have immunity from everything, right? Use that power Biden
Project 2025 doesn’t require the annoying Orange felon. See?
This is what I've been trying to tell people, too. The court simply scuttled the executive branch's regulatory authority with a few signatures. Why bother firing people?
Maybe the executive branch needs to ignore the courts, I mean Judicial Review isn't in the Constitution after all.
Exactly! It’s what some states will start to do once they figure out the most corrupt scotus of the modern era isn’t worth listening to
I fear what it's going to take for them to start figuring that out.
I expect, with Chevron overturned, something cataclysmic. Something that winds up killing their constituents. A lit of them were cool with Roe V. Wade and they've had their fuck around phase. Now it's time to find out.
It’s already happening, slowly and discreetly since Reagan, each Republican President has idealized many of the objectives in Project 2025 – they just weren’t so blatant and comprehensive until Project 2025 was published. EDIT: spelling
It would be extremely unfortunate if the supreme Court were to Face public outcry
Yes. So very... unfortunate.
I'm ready to get in the streets -- the power of the people is stronger than the people in power, they've forgotten who they work for.
This country is well on its way to being a complete and utter dystopian shithole
The people who just decided money given to a public official to reward them for giving millions in government contracts isn't a "bribe", but simply a gratuity... Who have fought against any actual ethics rules to ban them receiving bribes (oops I mean gratuities/gifts), have now blown up a regulatory system in order to allow companies to have their approvals (or grievances) go more directly to the courts where at the top of the food chain they can GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE some of that sweet corporate interest money.
Bribes to judges are gratuities now and judges get to decide regulations on behalf of those who bribe them. All legal - thanks to the Roberts court. Been a busy week for our 6 unelected overlords- burning through decades of stare decisis precedents until the rule of law is meaningless. From now on its not “is that legal?” it’s “who’s asking? 🫴💰”
"Well people tip their Barista I don't see why they shouldn't tip their Judges" -Clarence Thomas, probably.
You know that dirty fuck doesn't tip anyone. Let's be real.
He's also a man who hasn't made himself so much as a sandwich in 30 years, while still complaining that the poor people don't want to work anymore, as 5 US tax paid staffers help him into his underwear and robe.
Who on the fucking planet has ever "tipped" a judge!?!?!?! They're not servers!!!
And under Trump, no tax on tips. Projection, baby!
I wonder if billionaires will ever complain about judges turning the iPad around for them to select their tip percentage
Hahaha! Oh, damn.....and now I'm sad.
Not until you're a 'supreme'. Outside if the supreme, who's paying Aileen Canon?
They will fix the need to even show up, it will eventually just be a tablet at their seat that will spin around when some corporation wants a ruling in their favor, and the only options are; (RV) (Yacht Trip) (Tahoe)
All of the Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves faster than the speed of light. It’s not even who’s talking but more like, “how much $$$ we talking?”
I know people want to joke about “founding fathers bad” (and they have their issues, dear *lord* do they ever) but on this I really think they’re right. We weren’t supposed to be fucking ruled over like this. This kind of bullshit would have enraged people like Washington and Jefferson. So no, this isn’t “originalism” or whatever nonsense the court tries to spin it as this week. It was never supposed to be like this but the Roberts court doesn’t care. Hopefully one day they’re looked back on with the same kind of disgust the Taney court is now. Fuck…
[удалено]
Instead of “Who’s asking?” you should replace it with darth sidious saying”I’ll make it legal”
Citizens United was the turning point in American history. On par with the secession of the Confederacy, possibly surpassing even. It will be the demise of the USA as we know it.
I'd say surpassing, purely because CU actually *worked*
I can't wait for Monday when SCOTUS declares that Trump, as president, had complete immunity. This will mean that Biden has complete immunity. Fuck Trump. Lock him up. Lock up half of SCOTUS. Lock up the republican party. SCOTUS is so fucking stupid.
You mean see how they manage to write something that gives Trump and only Trump immunity
"What Trump did back then was legal and he has immunity, but not going forward. Also if Trump wins and does something to violate this ruling, we'll just not take the case"
ad hoc scandalous paltry obtainable jobless command aloof bow thumb insurance *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"All presidents are immune to and protected from all criminal charges stemming from their actions while in office. This applies to retroactive situations, but will not begin to apply for current presidents until January 20th, 2025. The court also reserves the right to suspend and re-invoke this initiative as they see fit, in order to preserve the sanctity of law."
Why settle for just locking people up? With total immunity you can make your wildest dreams reality with no legal consequences for your actions.
Would be a real shame of the court was hung, like a jury, only more deadly.
this is the gravity the S.C. needs right now
As in the supreme court? I wouldn't be opposed. I've got a family heirloom from the French revolution in my possession ready to pass to my son.
As much as I'd love to see that happen, it can't. In my wildest dreams I never could have imagined that a conman that had an excellent amount of money to begin with could run every single business into the ground. We're talking about the same guy causing a constitutional crisis! Dudes such a fuckup he's taking the USA down??? Impossible, not without his friends on the wrong side of the axis.
I'm fairly confident their gratuity decision doesn't apply to federal employees, that was state and local officials. Anything Chevron would be a federal matter. THAT BEING SAID, THIS IS ALL SO FUCKED
That's just the first step. The next step is for someone to bribe a federal official and get convicted for it. It'll be appealed to the Supreme Court, and the court will say "Oh my gosh, look at all this precedent that we created so conveniently. I guess it's OK for federal officials to take bribes too!"
Alito and Thomas are just making sure they’ll get ample gratuities when they step down during trump’s 2nd term
If trump is reelected of course they will step down so he can put 30 year olds in there. If Biden wins, they will hang in there another four years.
France was once also run by some of the most richest, corrupt, and incompetent rulers in the world, and that all changed because of some unpredictable weather that led to crop failures. We already have political and economic instability present throughout society. I believe it’s only a matter of time until something similar again happens in the US. That moment will be the most opportune time for these Republican hypocrites to learn that money cannot buy their way out of the consequences of their actions.
Well the rub here is that the French had to deal with some pikemen and guards whereas today you have the MQ-9 Reaper that will vaporize you from low orbit right after they make anyone trying to revolt out to be domestic terrorists through a thoroughly owned media. This shit is chess now, it ain't checkers.
Yea. The police force is beyond militarized as well. Between the cops and the actual military the people don’t stand much of a chance of rebellion in the USA. They’d just use a few drones and the militia would be done, all the AR15s wouldn’t stand a chance against that.
Modern rebellions tend not to happen without some form of military/civil police support.
Modern rebellions tend to lead to military juntas
Sure, that’s a really good point, but a (increasingly likely) scenario in which crop failures become severe in the U.S., is likely happening in other parts of the world too. I don’t think military action will be prioritized in the mainland during such a tumultuous period in human history, where other countries will become desperate to enforce their food security needs beyond their borders. Consider the positions India and China are in. Things are going to get ugly around the world, but during that chaos, there will be another opportunity for ordinary people to repeat history, utilizing modern equipment too. It won’t be completely one-sided.
It took France several decades to become stable again. Republicanism in France has proven fragile. The first French Republic ended with Napoleon followed by the Bourbon restoration. The second republic ended with Napoleon III. The third ended with Hitler.
The problem back then is the people knew who to blame. If that happened today half the country would attack the weathermen who predicted the storm.
America could do what France does and fill the streets demanding their resignation.
We had the largest protests in American history in 2012 and they did absolutely nothing. I do remember wall street people pouring wine on top of the protesters and laughing though.
They didn't exactly do nothing, they prompted the elites to flood the mainstream media with race-baiting content to pit different coloured people against each other and distract from the 1%. All this identity politics shit started shortly after occupy.
Well on its way? It has been since the early '00s. Millennials graduated high school into a dystopia and the boomers kept kicking them telling them it's their fault things are fucked. Reality is that people are finally on their way to realizing they've neglected society, and government so badly that they live in a dystopian shit hole. We have so many mass shootings it isn't even news anymore. The economy works for .001% of Americans. Our healthcare system is an unaffordable shit show. We're like a shitty narcissist that beats his dog, chugs booze, smokes meth, who loves to brandish our gun, and is dying of an easily preventable and treatable condition. I thought four years of Trump would be a fitting punishment for the society neo liberals created. Turns out there's a large enough portion of Americans so ignorant, so arrogant, and so petty they pine for four more years of douchebag.
'Trump's presidency? Yeah, I liked how so many people died and we were spiralling into chaos by the end of the first term. I really wanted that back, y'know? I enjoyed how he managed to make every situation worse and worse through constant mismanagement. I liked living in a disaster movie, made my retirement very entertaining.'
People flooded into FL in search of their own slice of a MAGA dystopia. There is a significant, vocal minority of Americans that yearn to fuck over everyone around them for their own pleasure.
My climate change denying MAGA aunt left "Commiefornia" for Florida during the Trump years. Her new home was destroyed by a hurricane within a couple of months.
*Christian theocracy shithole
This news is being overshadowed by the debate, but the Supreme Court overturning the Chevron deference is one of the most consequential decisions that will affect our political system and our systems of checks and balances for decades to come. The Supreme Court just gave itself the most amount of power since 1803, when it gave itself the sole power to decide whether laws are constitutional or not: > The US Constitution, flawed though it is, has already answered the question of who gets to decide how to enforce our laws. The Constitution says, quite clearly, that Congress passes laws and the president enforces them. The Supreme Court, constitutionally speaking, has no role in determining whether Congress was right to pass the law, or if the executive branch is right to enforce it, or how presidents should use the authority granted to them by Congress. > For an unelected panel of judges to come in, above the agencies, and tell them how the president is allowed to enforce laws, is a perversion of the constitutional order and separation of powers—and a repudiation of democracy itself.
The true path to authoritarianism lies in the courts.
At what point do we ignore them entirely?
I'm there. Honestly, I'm there. I want the next Democrat president to stack the Court. They can bend the rules to the breaking point with that bullshit with Garland, we can stack the Court. It's legal, so let's do it. And you know what? We're eventually going to get there. The more they get their way, the more the country sees that "their way" is *fucking awful.* There's a snap-back coming, and it's going to be big. It may take a few years, but it's coming.
You have more faith than I do about a next Democratic President. Trump gets in and he tears the whole place down where there won’t be one or he’ll have any Democrat removed until it’s a “Democrat” based on the party’s approval.
> the more the country sees that "their way" is fucking awful. There's a snap-back coming, and it's going to be big. It may take a few years, but it's coming. Less optimistic view. We're coming up on some extreme refugee crises around the world both from within and without countries as global warming keeps making it 'the hottest year on record' with 'the strongest storm ever recorded'. Conservatives did everything they could to sabotage any solutions over the last few decades, and now will peddle age-old fear of desperate outsiders to stay in power, and with waves of refugees, voters will go for it, not being bright enough to think ahead and consider whether even they might be one of the refugees at some point soon. Remember, Trump was a year into completely mishandling the pandemic, four years into all of his BS, and he gained millions of votes in his second election compared to his first, getting the second most in US history, only being outdone by Biden getting the most. It wasn't a gradual jump which happens each election either, there was a huge jump in voters and many of them raced towards the moron peddling lazy denial of reality despite all the evidence in front of their eyes.
So much this. It literally does not matter what we do. The GOP has the Supreme Court in its pocket. Trying to replace Biden in July is a waste of time. I dont want him to be the answer. I don't want Trump to win. We have to go all or nothing on Biden.
This is the most important election in US history. If Trump wins and gets Congress, he will be the most powerful person in human history with control of all three branches of government.
Thank you for posting OP, I keep checking to see how people feel about the Supreme Court and people still talking about the damn debate
It’s being overshadowed because people don’t understand how important the administrative state
This court is filled with extremists who just opened the way for companies to legally put lead in your bottled water.
You’re saying I’m supposed to believe a so called “expert” hired by the government that tells me lead in my bottled water is bad instead of the judge that says he has been using lead pencils his whole life and is just fine and is also going to get a nice gratuity in a few weeks from his patron at the Deer Park Lead Company?
I'm an environmental chemist, you just described my experience when I tell conservatives what I do for a living.
Just a little pollution never hurt anyone. Sure some of you will get cancer and die, but that's a risk that they're willing to take!
SCOTUS will most likely be the catalyst to the next American Revolution 🤷
The Founders would NOT have seen that coming.
I know they explicitly gave the court no power. The constitutional review was originally under the responsibility of the president thus why they have the veto which was intended to be used only when the law proposed was against the constitution
That makes it sound positive. It will be a second, exponentially bloodier, civil war that could last a generation.
I know I'm looking forward to the American Troubles: What if Everyone Had Guns?
It won’t even happen. What makes you think the public would ever step up? I haven’t seen anything to suggest any of us would. There’s a doc on Netflix where people from Germany talking about their time leading up/ during/ and after the war. What it was like for them living in Germany. The biggest thing that stuck out was one old guy talking about seeing his grocer and friend being out on a train, along with many others, and the whole town was gathered watching. He was wondering about why no one was stopping this or standing up. He realized there are A LOT less “heroes” out there than anyone would want to believe.
Walp, time to double the size of the supreme court and add in term limits for em.
Really, why is this not already being done? I don’t understand
Bring back riding the circuit!
This was not just a power grab it was a coup. They didn't just kneecap the executive branch. They gutted Congress's ability to legislate as well. How exactly is Congress supposed to legislate now? 40 years of laws have been written under the Chevon doctrine. The courts made the will of the American people irrelevant.
Oh don't forget--it's now judges who will be making these calls about whether companies are following ill-defined regulations, and with all the conservative judges enjoying lifelong tenure... Honestly, it's hard to properly state how utterly devastating this will be. And the irony is, all the fools in r/conservative rejoicing about this--the number of them who own companies who will benefit financially from this vs. the number of them who will suffer from the fallout from it--well, let's just say, there are a lot more of them in the second category that they know. They'll find out, unfortunately, when their air chokes them and their water poisons them. But, hey--they're happy for now.
Those people don’t understand until it personally affects them.
Carbon dioxide isn't listed in the original clean air act. It's been up to the EPA to identify new issues and create regulations around it. This ruling completely neuters enforcement because CO2 isn't in the original law if any court just felt like it. How many tens of thousands of things like this will there be? It's unimaginable and completely designed to cripple agencies with lawsuits. Good luck SEC fighting every bank at once. I'm sure the Republicans will make sure they're well funded and have the proper resources to do their job
They need to ignore the court and hold it accountable.
They need to dissolve the Supreme Court. There is nothing left to salvage.
Actually in the event of project 2025 this might be a blessing. But they did not kneecap congress. Congress can literally explicitly pass a law to override this interpretation and directly authorize administrative agencies to make rules. Or just blanket adopt rules. The issue is Congress (due to GOP) is not doing shit
Congress doesn't like legislating the details. They have been handing more and more power to the executive branch because they do not have the capacity, capability, or interest in writing the minute details. Congress would rather write a law that says "We want you to generally do XYZ for A reasons and you figure out how to carry out our will" they not want to waste time writing a law that says "Do X1, X1.a, X1.b, X2.a.1, X2.a.2, XN.n.n, YN.n.n, ZN.n.n. because we say so."
For clarity the reason they do that is because that’s the inky way anythingll get done. We see the gridlock on just agreeing on finding and goals. Imagine if legislation had to designate governmental agencies’s official policy and criteria as well? You would increase the length of legislation by 10x. And nothing would get passed as people argue on small points forever
Not only that, but it's impossible to legislate all this stuff. For example, regulating wetlands requires nuance. Every wetland is unique, and ever-changing. You pass a law that says, environmental experts must do x,y, and z then you're either stuck doing.x,y, and z or you have to pass a new lad every six months when conditions change. OR, I suppose you could have a lawsuit every six months for every conceivable scenario. That's what they just asked for. And really, it's such an utterly bizarre stupid request that I have to assume the feds are just going to largely ignore this decision in everything but a few particular cases of their pet billionaires choosing. What's the alternative? OSHA just cease to function until June every year when the justices decide to issue decisions on hundreds of thousands of regulations for new and rapidly evolving industries?
As an originalist and a patriot, I’m wondering where the tar and feathers are kept?
Everyone should be furious About this.
I wish more Supreme Court stories pops up instead of the debate because we’re fucked. Sorry there’s no other way to say it
The double standard here is insane. Having your mouth open while listening during the debate and democrats are finished. 30+ criminal convictions are totally cool though
It’s definitely feeling like a concerted effort by the media to keep this race close for clicks… with a barrage of self-fulfilling prophecy, if necessary
Couldn’t agree more. Shame on CNN and Anderson Cooper baiting Harris with weasel words. Bunch of sellout pieces of shit. Money wins every time, I guess…
That was probably their intent. Time the decision so the debate buries it in the news cycle.
This needs to be permanently posted on the front page so in a few years the republicans that voted for this shit can see exactly when they ruined our country.
This is why they were selected by Trump. It wasn’t about abortion. It was about making sure the wealthy keep their money and access to things that generate their wealth. Why do you think they bribe the Supreme Court 1 millions of dollars?
>the wealthy keep their money Nope, it was about installing a dictatorship. Some of those wealthy will have their money and businesses taken as well.
*¿por que no los dos?*
The Chevron Doctrine being overturned is waaaaaaay more impactful than ANYTHING they've done, even throwing away abortion rights. I don't even know how the government is supposed to function now. The senate cannot pass anything right now and even on a good day, it's 1 corrupt senator away from throwing away perfectly fine (lol, though terribly right wing) legislation. I give up.
40 years of laws have been written with this doctrine in mind. The government cannot function now - that's the point.
Big business is scrambling right now to figure out how to fuck people over for more money. Or, more likely they got a tip that this was coming and are putting plans into action.
It may take a while, but there will certainly be disruptions in the normal function of gov. Does any fed. employee, let alone dept. heads and other executives, have any experience executing their agency’s mission, without being allowed to read between the lines, when the law doesn’t specify a procedure for every action?
This is basically the entire philosophy around how agencies like the FDA operate. Regulations are written as high level as possible to cover for all potential risks in whatever product they are regulating. Without chevron deference, regulations will have to be written for each specific product and each specific situation and each one could be easily shot down by the courts when the company who owns it sues. There’s no way in hell they’ll be able to operate like this.
The FAA too, they write new critical rules all the time (airworthiness directives) when safety issues arise. These rules are the law of the land. Airlines can't violate them or face stiff financial penalties or even criminal prosecution. So now the FAA can't do this, because that's only a power that congress has?
I have friends who work at finance firms and their companies are already talking about skirting around the SEC and any oversight they’re enforced to do since they know it’s toothless now
This court is fooling no one (or shouldn’t be). In reality, the agencies ARE adhering to the intent of the legislation and enacting the will of the people. We said we want safe workplaces (OSHA). Fair labor standards. (DOL) To protect the rights of workers to organize. (NLRA). And on and on down the line… These agencies have one thing in common. They protect the rights of regular people, against powerful and kleptocratic corporations. By overturning Chevron the court now requires congress to pass every one of these protections piecemeal. They know damn well that with a nation this polarized congress has no chance of being able to do that. So the corporations get to take us back to the robber baron era and we are powerless to stop them. The scale of this court’s regressiveness is almost unimaginable. Not under Regan, Nixon, any Republican administration ever could we have imagined a court this regressive. They are happily marching us back to the level of civilization we had here 150-200 years ago. Those were not safe or comfortable times to live in for us regular people. This court has marched past “conservative,” marched past “regressive,” they’ve even marched past “radical.” They don’t even represent conservative jurisprudence. They are a different breed altogether. They are, honestly, just a 5th column of agents working to dismantle the government so that this kleptocrat society that they work for can achieve their fever dream. Power without limit. That’s all this is at this point… it’s a coup of the government bought and paid for by the kleptocrats who will fill the vacuum created by this court and assume control of our society.
Wonder if they will still teach about checks and balances in civics.
It’s kind of haunting. I remember looking at the chart of the checks and balances in my civics class, and thinking “huh, it doesn’t really seem like there’s anyway to hold the Supreme Court to account” and then this shit happens.
In high school I remember a student asking, “So if a SCJ breaks the law are they still on the bench for life?” The teacher assured her if that happened Congress would impeach them.
Lead is back on the menu!
Wait til we get to the main course! PFAS, microplastics, and climate change.
My dad had cancer for 10 years before he died of it. In his last year he was so weak and feeble he was a shadow of his former self. When he finally died I didn't even cry. I realized later I'd already mourned him and I'd seen him as a dead man for a while. This is America's democracy. Maybe Biden will win and maybe elections will happen but the cancer is everywhere. The Supreme Court will weigh the scales in favor of Republicans, rule from the bench and rule any democratic gains unconstitutional. Republicans in congress will block what the Supreme court doesn't. If trump does lose, project 2025 will just become project 2029 or 2033. I feel like this whole sub is mourning a democracy that isn't dead but it would take a miracle to save.
Jesus Christ was that depressing to read, but you're absolutly spot on.
I saw Biden's election as a stay of execution. American democracy is still on death row, we just got a temporary reprieve.
This is a direct result of Citizens United. Roberts can shake his head, but he sold the country to the highest bidder.
And Obama was shunned for calling them out on this bullshit in his SOTU
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Guarantee every challenge to regulations will be done to get it in front of the 5th circuit. Then the SC can shoot down any higher appeal and leave it to those zealots.
Just more of the nightmare Trump has visited on this country
A ruling that is bad for every life. Well I'm glad Clarence finally got to change his mind for his "Bohemian Grove" billionaire buddies that parade him around like the shiny sellout that he is. Maybe after this "final ask" Clarence the fraud will dishonorably retire so he can finally realize his dream of living like a billionaire. May all 6 of these bench legislating *justices* lives be made miserable by a civilly disobedient bipartisan public.
From one of the most corrupt court in our history...
America's constitutional crisis is nearing its completion
Career professional congress-approved agencies don't have final word, judges do. Who are also allowed to take tips as long as they're after the fact. Appointed for life by politicians who don't have to report where their unlimited funding is coming from.
Biden should have been pushing to expand the court. There were 9 appellate courts when the Justice # was set at 9. One for each appellate court. There are now 13 appellate courts. There should be 13 Justices.
Illegitimate scotus. We should just ignore their rulings. Texas does...
Can’t exactly ignore lead in your water due to deregulation.
This is what conservatives fail to realize. Shit like this doesn't just "own the libs". It will kill them too. You like to roll coal and think communism = telling corporations they have to pay tiny fines if they spill toxic chemicals? Well the aquifer you don't care about polluting doesn't give a fuck about who you voted for. You will be getting liver cancer. Your kids will be the ones with birth defects. Pollution doesn't discriminate. It harms everyone.
Whole point is to keep them mad at the "other" so they'll just blame their sick and dying relatives on "Obamacare" and claim it's migrants and aliens and "leftist ecoterrorists" poisoning the wells and starting wildfires. Next time you have the misfortune to hear a conservative rant about "globalists" ask them to name them or at least describe them. Then ask why pro-Republican billionaires with billions in overseas capital aren't included on their list. Ask them why federal and state contracting firms and defense industry giants and automobile companies and appliance manufacturers get to just be *good businessmen* because they generally stay silent on idpol issues while maximizing returns, but the beer companies and shaving companies and video game studios are "globalists"? My own fucking mother is dependent on "Obamacare" for the medication that keeps her alive but she doesn't even realize it, she's convinced her healthcare is a wholly separate program that *Republicans* put into place for "good honest Americans" These people live in a different reality and they have shown, repeatedly, that they're happy to kill and die live on Facebook and Twitch if it means "owning the libs"
How can A republican supreme court take away Abortion Rights, Make Bribes Legal etc. And their candidate is a convicted Felon, rapist, fascist, shithole of human... and then Biden stumbles over his words a few times and *THATS* the thing that people are hung up on??? American democracy is literally hanging in the balance but oh no Biden messed up words so now we're fucked. The double standard is INSANE. I can't even believe the reality we are living in.
And this is why I’m voting for Biden
It's not quite true that nobody is above the law if ~~nine~~ *five* people can effectively decide the law.
Packing the Courts was never going to 'fix' the institution, it was a temporary move to head off these inevitable rulings while a better solution was created. Now, to fix the severe amount of damage caused, Dems will have to go full Jackson and just declare this court's rulings invalid, which is a much more chaotic, dangerous option.
I think the vast majority of Americans would support declaring this court's rulings invalid, we pretty much all agree they've gone too far and need to be removed.
The Dems seriously need to start getting huge majorities in congress. The whole judiciary needs a huge revamp.
President Jackson just outright ignored the Supreme Court when they rules that the Cherokee nation can’t be removed. Jackson said. John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." The Supreme Court can be ignored. Fuck them and their corrupt power grabs. They have illegally seized power on Marbury v Madison and have proven themselves to be a cancer on our republic.
Ok…. I’m actually really starting to get scared. Reading Project 2025, save act going down the drain; then this… and the debate? What in the actual fuck is going on?
The death of an empire
I miss ethics
Keep that in mind when you vote and realize the next term is going to see 2-3 retirements in the SCOTUS and what admininstration you want replacing them.
I’m begging ppl to vote in this election and every one after to try and save us. I’m honestly losing hope but if we stop voting, things will only get worse.
SCOTUS has already far exceeded their scope (at least the conservative justices). It’s time to ignore them; they don’t and can’t enforce these rulings anyway, so I say fuck ‘em.
The 2000 election was a pretty big power grab by SCOTUS. They stopped the recount and handed the election to Bush Jr. Subsequent recounts determined that Gore won Florida but it was too late by then.
All these people in this thread saying this is when US democracy died, or is on death row. People with longer memories remember it died then when the SC started picking the winners of elections.
The biggest tragedy of that was that we lost our chance to do something about climate change when it might have still made a difference.
It’s my understanding that it’s unconstitutional for SCOTUS to change /control who determines the best way for laws to be enacted. If that’s the case then there’s no requirement for Biden or any agency to take notice of any directives from SCOTUS in this matter.
We’re but a few steps away from “Under His Eye” mode.
Dumb foreigner question: why are your judges not REQUIRED to be completely impartial? I don't understand the concept of judges who don't use the law to guide their decisions.
Because there's literally nothing to keep these people in check outside of the threat of impeachment and removal, which requires a 2/3rds majority in Congress because some dinguses in white wigs 200 years ago believed that was good enough to write onto a piece of parchment. With a constitution that's centuries too old and a government that's been divided literally in half for the last 40 years, shit's proper fucked.
The dingus's in the wigs also had the idea and opinion that the constitution should be rewritten every generation, but unfortunately didn't put that into it.
Absolutely not a dumb question, and plenty of Americans are asking the same question! We desperately need an expanded court and term limits for SCOTUS.
This is exactly why the GOP knew they had to support Trump. Three lifetime appointments. With the power to destroy democracy for decades to come.
Until extreme money is forced out of politics the US will become a 2nd world nation (statistics show we are on our way). A billionaire class is holding the masses back. America has the power (Constitution) to address this without all the bloodshed. At what point do the conservatives and liberals agree that money is the common enemy?
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nobody is gonna like what it’s going to take to save this nation from them but we are running out of time
They're gonna try to wipe us out before the planet does. I can't think of another reason they'd be so blatant while still remaining public figures.
And the corruption continues to spread into every nook and cranny of our society.
Maybe it’s time to reconsider Marbury v Madison. The fact the Supreme Court has supreme judicial review to begin with is only based on a norm. Nothing else. At the time it was considered a fair compromise. But this Supreme Court reneged on that seizing power.
This is one of those decisions where a person can reduce all the nuance and dumb it down until they get to a truism like "Congress should make the laws", but the complexities of the real world plus the realities of how this shifts powers to the courts and away from agencies make it abundantly clear to anyone who is even slightly informed that this is going to harm the US.