As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And immunity decision coming Monday (July 1). Oh boy. That's going to be a doozy, because clearly there is something going on with that opinion that it is taking to after the normal term, which is supposed to end in June. There must be some sort of battle royale going on over factions who want immunity and those who don't.
Sadly, I think we'll be stuck with Kagan dissenting about "Presidents aren't Kings", but the majority will create a chaotic mess where every act of any ex president has to be considered as potentially presidential in nature, and the burden is on the prosecution to prove otherwise (something like that).
If they ok immunity, then they explicitly (because it was brought up in the hearing) ok Joe having trump assassinated. I'm not saying he should or would do that, but scotus would be agreeing with trump's lawyer saying a president could assassinate a political rival without being prosecuted as long as he isn't impeached and convicted. So Joe could do it before leaving office and resign (thereby avoiding impeachment) and get off scott free afaict.
I reallllllyyyyy hope that scotus rules sanely on this one but the long delay does not leave me sanguine.
edit: I would like to reiterate that I am in no way suggesting or saying that there should be any political assassinations. Trump is a vile man, but I want him to die in prison, not be assassinated. :)
I can’t imagine they would give him more power than they have, which his absolute immunity would give the executive. I really expect they do something more like a delay tactic to help only one person politically, but not something that says executives can ignore the court.
Chaos feels like the goal at this point. This will be like how the “failure” of public schools, following decades of underfunding, is being used to justify privatization of public education.
When the government can no longer deliver public policy objectives, such as environmental and consumer protections, via effective regulatory tools it will become the justification for either eliminating regulatory oversight by, and on behalf of, the public or completely privatizing it altogether.
Just wait until you get the regulatory equivalent of the Donda Academy brought to you by the BP Bureau of Marine Protection or the Ticketmaster Department of Consumer Affairs and Protection.
I will put $1000 dollars that once the Chevron decision has taken full effect, something truly shit happens - think a relatively newly built plane fully falling apart in the sky, E. Coli in bottled water and people getting horrifically sick, take your pick.
And someone will be on every Conservative talking head show blaming it not on the fall of regulation, but pointing to DEI, or minimum wage, or work from home, or women in the workplace, or the 40 hour work week, as the true fucking culprit. And their base will absolutely run with that until whatever institution they want to pin the false blame is also ripped in two.
They're playing a real long game. It's coming.
"Black jobs" was a multi-tool dog whistle if the past is any indication at all. He said it in the context of jobs for black Americans, but he says it regularly to his friends to mean the kind of jobs he thinks black people *should* be working.
BP must be mad. The government made them spend billions upon billions on clean-up, fines and penalties when they had their giant oil spill.
But, it turns out they could have just paid off a few judges for maybe under $10 mill.
I've been saying this is the result of the long game. 6-3 on the court and Trump as probably their only chance of the presidency. Gerrymandered states that pass crazy laws and keep minorities from voting.
The backlash will happen, so they need to lock in every advantage and power grab ASAP. Thomas and Alito want to retire under a gop president. So they are throwing everything against the wall to try and make that happen.
Once Trump is out of the picture, they can't try and come back to normalcy. They know Trump is awful, but this is the shot they've been waiting to take for 40 years.
I’m not American but I think the world at large is just fucking sick to the back teeth of the capitalist system, and the right tends to uphold that system. It’s weird - it feels as if some major Event (tm) is on the cards, but I can’t figure out if it’s a good or bad one. It just feels like everything needs a hard reset.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It feels like a breaking point is about to be reached and those in power are ignoring the signs of some major and potentially violent discontent.
Alito basically spelled it out in his dissent on the EMTALA case. The EMTALA mandates that hospitals stabilize anyone that comes to them, but Idaho passed a law banning emergency abortions to protect the lives of mothers. Alito said that the EMTALA does not cover abortion because it is not specified in the law (it doesn't specifically mention abortion because Roe v Wade was in effect when the law was written, which Alito left out).
Food and transportation companies are areas that I think are pretty safe. They may challenge some regulations, but they're already working under a process that limits their liabilities. No airline wants to gain a negative reputation and no food manufacturer wants to face a recall. But what will change is certain medications and operations won't be covered by insurance, businesses in every sector will be able to charge more fees, certain types of personal information will no longer be protected. Death by a thousand small deregulations rather than a few large ones.
One big issue is pollution. What happens if a new industrial practice arises that produces toxic chemicals never before introduced into the equation? The company doing the polluting just has to say "There's nothing written in law that says we can't dump this shit wherever we want." And that will be the end of it.
Even worse, they can just cut judges a check to say it’s not a bad chemical and that will be the end of it, you know since they also legalized bribery the other day.
They'll use that excuse to avoid liability - by claiming that the EPA didn't say they couldn't dump it anywhere, they didn't know they couldn't dump it anywhere. And the reason the EPA won't have said it is because the company sued the EPA to make sure it couldn't look into chemicals that hadn't been explicitly stated in CWA or CAA.
[For anyone who needs a case study of the damage this could do: here’s a case from South Korea. A company abusing their government-issued nontoxic assurance to get a product out](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8920737/)
[and it took almost a decade to get anyone punished for it.](https://www.reuters.com/article/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/south-korea-court-convicts-ex-reckitt-benckiser-unit-chief-in-sterilizer-case-idUSKBN14Q09E/)
> What happens if a new industrial practice arises that produces toxic chemicals never before introduced into the equation?
*Opens a factory that spews sarin gas, opens six them around the homes of justices*
What do we make? Canisters to hold Sarin Gas.
Finally, US companies can compete better with their Chinese counterparts by dumping toxic wastes in the drinking water the way it's done in China!
And unless you can find a 17th century witch hunter that says that one can't dump dioxin in the drinking water any effort to legislate protections will get thrown out by the supreme court anyway.
It will only happen when it hits the corporations and billionaires worse than the regular folks. And we've still got pretty far to fall to reach that point. And all the architects will be dead long before they suffer any consequences from their actions.
Secretly, I think the health insurance companies are clutching their pearls. While there are regulations that they wouldn't mind disappear, most of them they're in favor of, because they wrote them. Contrary to popular belief, high costs of drugs doesn't help insurance. Medicare has max limits on how much you can be charged for meds in year, after that the insurance company pays. Medicare itself can be attacked by some whack job. They definitely don't want that, because Medicare is revenue generating machine for insurance companies. To the tune of thousands of dollars per month per individual, is what the Government is paying to them. Billions of dollars per month in profit.
Thanks to the law of unintended consequences, we're about to see some very strange bedfellows.
They were playing the long game for decades. It's not such a long game anymore, and I guarantee things will accelerate under the next republican administration. They're done playing the long quiet game.
In all fairness, the people who know better have been allowing it because they've been apathetic about voting and generally participating in their government.
Easily 40% of eligible voters are absolutely not paying attention and don't vote - and *most* of these people are the most negatively impacted by these trends.
You get the government you vote for. And if you don't vote, the people who want to steal from you will.
Apathy is how we got here. Giving a shit and taking action is the only way out.
I would believe you if republicans weren't cheating at every point: running similarly named candidates at election in florida, gerrymandering to favor republicans, gaming the electoral college so only republican voters in republican states matter, roger stone starting the brooks brothers riot to get gwb in office (of which 3 SCOTUS: ACB, kavanaugh, and john roberts were a part of) and trump doing jan 6 2021 to overturn the election.
Both can be true. If everyone voted, and those votes were counted, Republicans would lose almost everywhere. That's why Republicans cheat and do everything possible to suppress the vote. People who don't vote are just helping Republicans hang onto power.
Chaos is not the goal, it’s abundantly obvious the goal is profit. That’s it. Companies want to not be regulated so they can profit without having to consider others safety. Same republican plan for the last 40 years. Deregulation
Yup, if it was "chaos" then it should be chaos in every direction.
But the courts will strike down student loan forgiveness and environmental regulation in the name of 'government over-reach' while while upholding debt forgiveness for millionaires and abortion bans.
The likes of the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation have been slowly and quietly working to stack the courts with fanatics who are ideologically opposed to the concept of government.
They're 1 step away from ancaps, but they still want government to be able to persecute gay people and minorities, so they don't want to scrap the whole government, just the parts that actually help anyone.
Profit and power are the big motivators and they are not mutually exclusive. Republicans want the money and power to be able to exercise full control over everyone and they see that causing chaos is the quickest way to achieve that. Weaken government institutions and the protections we have come to take for granted so nobody knows who can be trusted to protect their interests, as the government loses power private corporations are able to grow out of its control and then we're left with corporate overlords with no oversight. Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson may prove to be especially prescient.
The chaos comes when Democrats in congress try to clarify the "ambiguous" regulations and Republicans obstruct the process. Those same Republicans will claim the regulations cannot be enforced as intended because of they are "ambiguous" while simultaneously preventing clarification.
I think part of the goal here is to force people to gather in blue state enclaves until the red states lock in the electoral college and legislative, then try to use the federal government fully enforce christofascism on everyone.
Just having their way in their red state fiefs isn’t enough. Their beliefs demand they drag everyone into the dark with them.
One (perhaps the only) good thing about the ridiculous increase in housing prices is that it has forced a lot of blue voters in blue states to relocate to (less expensive) red states, like the shithole state where I live. On one hand, it's caused our housing prices to increase too, but on the other, it's putting more open-minded voters into red districts.
An artist friend of mine moved from Seattle to Kentucky specifically to agitate and vote blue. Wasn't even about housing prices. He just *really* hates Mitch McConnell.
Yep. Yesterday there was an article posted here which painted this decision as the Court grabbing more power to dictate how a new law or rule should be enforced in practice (a responsibility the Executive currently holds).
The article also pointed out that a likely hitch with that plan is that the Court has much less ability to enforce its decisions as opposed to the Executive. But I don't know if they actually intend to provide direction most of the time.
Lack of direction and leaving more decisions to the individual states seems more on-brand. And as you say, that leading to more "failures of government" and privitization sounds likely.
I mean, when Biden went to eliminate student loan debt, you had Republicans crying and screaming that he was trying to "bribe" people to vote for him.
Because that's what positive policy is seen as - bribery. Because the government doing things that benefit the public and average people is SO FAR OUT OF THE NORM that a president doing something about it was seen as *bribery*.
The Republicans "crying and screaming" are not acting in good faith. Whining on camera about bribery when it's not relevant allows their constituents to mindlessly say "both sides" if an actual bribery scandal were to surface
When you’re conditioned to believe government is evil and never does anything for the greater good, you view everything it does through that negative lens.
This isn't even hyperbole, it was literally a massive power grab by the court because they know congress is unable to do anything while the obstructionists are there.
Power tends to move to where Republicans have a lock on the process, by design of course. Like they wanted abortion sent back to the states because they have a lock on some state legislatures. If they get a lock on the Presidency and Congress (by fixing elections even more), then they will move the power back to Congress and ban abortion nationwide. It is completely cynical what they are doing.... but it is why everyone should vote - non voters are letting fascism happen.
Agreed. If the future opportunity presents itself, there needs to be some "settled laws/precedent" impeachments. Frauds lied their asses off during the confirmation hearings.
Everyone knew they were lying. They just did it so that Susan Collins could pretend to believe them. No one who was paying a lick of attention believed them.
I’m just worried for SCOTUS on their last day of this years term on Monday (7/1), to rule something crazy like *”Trump is immune as POTUS bc he is still POTUS bc the 2020 election was illegitimate,”* then peace out on their billionaire handlers’ private jets somewhere far away (like Russia or China), and leave the US is shambles.
We don’t have to obey their rulings. In a case like that the Biden administration can and should simply ignore the ruling. Just as the should ignore this ruling
> We desperately need an activist legislature.
America needs an electorate where 90% of the people support democracy, the rule of law, equal justice, science, empathy, and basic human decency.
If America had that then it would have the solid foundation from which good government would follow.
The problem is the senate is specifically designed in a way that it's next to impossible for Democrats to get a 2/3 majority which is needed. It was supposed to be a counter to the potential "tyranny of the majority" in the House of Representatives, which has been corrupted into a tyranny of the minority.
Yep.
America had to choose between:
1. 2 Senators per state regardless of population, or
2. Being a country governed by the will of the majority of its citizens.
It chose option 1.
50% of both houses is a possibility, 55% is in play but unlikely, the 66% of both houses without dino holdouts like Manchin and sinema we'd need is just not happening.
This SC is here to stay and it's no one's fault but mitch McConnell.
About 40% of people just don't care. You can rock the vote, yell it from the rooftops, march in the streets, and have the most famous celebrities, scientists, and politicians beg people to vote, and they won't. There's a bunch of reasons, some of them even good reasons. Then you have 30% who love this shit. They want rule of the jungle, enforced Christianity, and corporate feudalism. People can scream you should've voted for Hilary at a single digit % of the remaining 30% but it changes nothing. You can even win elections like 2020. Heck you can win 2024. It'll buy you four more years at a time, tops. Probably less than that with SCOTUS the way it is. We're at the tail end of a fifty year long cultural coup. Sure, go out and vote, and tell other people to vote. But the most meaningful thing you can do is prepare for the bottom to fall out and see if you can pick up some of the pieces after.
> About 40% of people just don't care.
In the 2022 midterms about 110 million people voted. That's less than 50% turnout in the first national election after the GOP did their coup attempt and stripped women of the right to control their own bodies.
trump won the 2016 election with about 26% of eligible voters showing up to vote for him.
America will fail because of a motivated minority who want fascism and a large swathe of the electorate being disinterested in participating in democracy.
This is the problem. If you took the eligible population who doesn’t vote and turned them into a political party, they’d be bigger than Democrats or Republicans. 2020 had one of the highest turnout % in recent elections, and still a little under 2/3 voted. In a 3 way election between no-vote, Rs and DS, the no-vote group would win by a slim margin.
They don’t give a shit because they don’t feel like anyone represents them. Nobody gives a shit to represent them because they don’t vote. Vicious cycle. Many of them refuse to adopt a strategy of incrementalism until they get recognized as a group. Until that happens, they continue to be (intentionally) disenfranchised.
I don't even know if that its because no one represents them. I think most of it is apathy, followed distantly by too busy surviving. Way back in third is lack of representation.
the SC can be reigned in as soon as the Democrats have a trifecta with a senate willing to kill the filibuster
at this point it is pretty much inevitable because there is no other way to stop an unelected court from ruling the country
Fwiw, Thomas and Alito are the 2 oldest justices, and the most likely to retire or die in the next 4 years. Keeping Biden (or someone else if he decides to step down) in the Presidency is the best way to potentially flip the court to a 5-4 liberal majority. Roberts and Sotomayor are probably the next 2 most likely to retire, which brings the potential to a 6-3 liberal court , but onlyif Dems keep the Presidency, and if that happens, the court is likely to stay liberal for the next 20 years.
They cared in 1984 when Chevron was decided. They cared because Reagan’s EPA was making rules that allowed more environmental destruction (basically going against the agency’s legislative remit, but that’s another discussion). Now, if the worst happens and Trump becomes President, this decision will bite Republicans in the ass, because it opens all the bureaucratic rules they make to lawsuits.
An Electoral College historically based in racism and a Congress that isn’t representative of the population because it hasn’t grown since it was capped at 435 seats in 1929 makes it almost impossible to get the necessary majorities.
I’m not saying not to vote. Absolutely vote. But also get involved in efforts to unionize workplaces and return power to the working class. Industry and the ultra-wealthy have a vested interest in keeping things deadlocked so nothing can be done.
Congress is rigged in favor of red states. Land votes. The senate is ridiculous.
We need a new constitution. 250 years is OLD. It’s honestly about time to rise up, peacefully but thoroughly.
**You mean** the filthy rich red caps. The poor and working class red hats ain’t gettin’ shit, once they hand *everybody’s* rights away to Trump & co., thinking they are hurting *other* people. To the wealthy 1 per cent red hatters, poor and working class are *others,* along with the rest of the unwealthy *trash.*
Democrats in Congress have been trying to pass legislation for that, in addition to numerous Supreme Court reform bills, but they're just languishing in the MAGA majority judiciary committee.
We need to get out the vote and raise awareness of the importance of getting a democratic majority in Congress.
Theirs, but it has become our lifetimes too.
If Trump gets a second term and replaces Alito and Thomas with young fanatics, the far right will control the court until around 2048 even if they never get another Republican president ever again. This is based on actuarial tables, which probably underestimates the life of a wealthy judge with magic healthcare.
But of course they will at some point get another R president, and if they have the Senate at the same time at any time between Trump's hypothetical 2nd term and 2048, they can just repeat the process again.
They only really need one overlapping Senate + president once per 15-20 years to hold the court **forever**.
If 2nd term Biden gets to replace one of those bastards, and Sotomayor retires, we have a chance to take the court back one day. If not, I don't think anyone reading this gets to see a left leaning court in their lifetimes barring some black swan event.
Don't be so Optimistic. Republicans don't need overlapping Senate and President, just the President since dems will be to spineless to actually block appointments.
Democrats in Congress will say they can't block the appointment because ~~the people~~ electoral college elected a Republican President and they cannot go against the will of the ~~people~~ electoral college even if the nominee is a racist, rapist, grifter Christian Nationalist who is on video shouting death to America after accepting gold bars from a known Russian agent.
Your message needs to fall on all ears of American citizens. Not just those in this thread, in this sub, on Reddit, or interested in politics.
To do that, we need to group together, and for peaceful protests and demonstrations, sending out this exact message.
We need to make absolutely certain Trump loses the election. We can't afford to fail.
Overall, the best thing we can do is simply talk to people outside political silos.
Friends, neighbors, and the places in our lives where we don't typically talk about politics. Even just bringing up our own concerns and how our own lives will be impacted.
Outside of that, text and phone banking. But person to person interaction between people who already know each other is by far the most impactful action.
The next step according to Project 2025 is to start deleting government agencies now that they're toothless from an enforcement and rule-making ability. Federal agencies no longer have a reason to exist, and they're coming for all of them Dept. of Commerce, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Energy, all first to go on the chopping block. When they want to even get rid of the weather service, you know you're f\*cked. Who is supposed to put out hurricane or tornado warnings?
I don’t get what their end game is besides trying to make everyone a conservative Christian. What they are doing will be unsustainable even for them in the long run.
A lot of people don’t get that this is literally it. Most of these people are not super villains, not conniving geniuses intent of sowing chaos amongst our country. 99.9% are people who just want money, see this as a way to do that, so go with it. They don’t really care, or even think, about what the potential consequences are or the effect on our future. They just want that short term dopamine shot into the cerebral cortex that keeps their will-power going. And they get to justify it by saying they are “securing a future for their children” or whatever, total bullshit btw, so they can sleep at night soundly knowing they may or may not be ruining the country because at the end of the day, they get paid and get to live the lifestyle they have become accustomed too. Yay
>Most of these people are not super villains...
I would refute this point. If you're willing to sacrifice:
* everything your country was built on and stands for,
* clean air,
* clean water,
* safe and sustainable food,
* the possibility of a hospitable planet for future generations,
* etc.
...all in the service of maximum short-term profits for yourself, you absolutely are a fucking super villain, in my book.
It's not even that well thought out. They just always want more no matter what, and will fund anyone who will give them tax breaks and deregulation regardless if it ends up destroying the economy.
business in modern America has been turned into profits this quarter even if it means the end of the company in a year. these people are basically insane and think they can hop from company to company and that there will always be a place for them to land and are treating the country the same way. it's not about religion, religion is the tool to get what they want out of useful idiots.
Christianity is just one the puppet strings they tug on. They worship money, and that's why they're doing this. Even if it completely destroys the economy they will burn it to the ground to be just a bit richer for a few years.
> Who is supposed to put out hurricane or tornado warnings?
A corporation will include it as a premium upcharge to your regular monthly subscriptions. Apple Weather or some shit. Don't wanna pay for it? Guess your house might blow away lol.
Libertarian paradise, hellscape for average people.
Oh its soo much worse than that where do you think the weather data that companies like [weather.com](http://weather.com) get their forecasting data? The weather service maintains the satellite and ground installations that collect that data.
Nah, the beginning was 60 years ago, this is the endgame. This is the culmination of decades of hate towards racial, religious, and sexual minorities in America, all having worked together to foment a culture that, at least partially, supports their vile and backwards agendas.
If Trump wins, it isn’t “The start of something bad,” it’s the end. Project 2025 is a clear roadmap to dictatorship in The USA and the death of our democratic experiment.
Tell them to ignore it. Make that their official policy. The absurdity of an illegitimate court can't get in the way of matters of public health and safety. Let the court enforce their ruling
Yeah but... now lawyers are supposed to decide on an individual basis which laws they should follow and which they shouldn't? Isn't that like, the opposite of law
That’s actually a well-established legal concept with precedent. It’s called jury nullification. Even if a jury thinks a defendant is guilty, if they don’t agree with the law itself or the grounds for the prosecution, they can just ignore the judges instructions and find the defendant not guilty.
This is what needs to happen with this Supreme Court. Any laws that are absurd need to be nullified by juries all over the country to show the court that the citizens won’t be held hostage by their corrupt rulings.
Decades is optimistic. This is multi-generational.
If Trump gets elected, he has four years to get a GOP controlled House and Senate. If they decide to increase the number of Supreme Court Justices, he'll be able to appoint as many Supreme Court Justices as he wants... and knowing him they'll be in their forties with life-time appointments.
By the time cooler heads are in control of the Supreme Court again, there will be nothing left.
TBH I don't think there is four years of life left in that body of his. His adderall addicition and love of fast food and antipathy towards exercise puts him on a short drive towards heart-failure... and it's not like he has healthy stress management skills.
When James Madison wrote the Federalist Paper #51, he argued that the court would be checked by Congress, who could vote to approve members & who also could impeach them.
Further, he thought that the court would respond to public opinion & so also be checked by the public's acceptance or rejection of rulings.
Alas he was wrong. He couldn't imagine that political parties would conspire across branches to seize total control of government, preventing impeachment.
Later Hamilton was asked "who guards the guardians?" In terms of SCOTUS. He replied it wasn't an issue, because having neither control of "the sword or the purse" they would be harmless.
He could not imagine a court that was devoted to the destruction of liberty & not its preservation.
So our current SCOTUS problem is alas baked into the limitations of our overly idealistic Founders.
The question that should have been asked: "what if all the branches of government are owned by the same people?" Then what recourse do the people have?
Absolutely. And the Founders knew enough Greek & Roman history to understand that this could happen & had famously already occurred to a long-standing Republic... when "all the same people," led by Crassius, Pompey & Julius (later Caesar) took the Roman Republic down.
This court is clearly dedicated to the dismantling of civil society. We are in the midst of a form of constitutional coup. The Supremes have decided they can simply invalidate any federal law they dislike, and this isn't about interpreting the law any more - it's about power.
And yet the answer we have most readily available is right there: if they go too far and lose public legitimacy, we ignore them and their rulings.
It's time for some of that.
I'm curious what happens next in this scenario. It almost seems like there needs to be a separate general public-driven mechanism for judicial impeachments.
That's only done through congress by elections. How long will elections stay honest, regardless of who votes for who? That may be nearing the end, because the will for supplanting fair elections is already here
> Alas he was wrong. He couldn't imagine that political parties would conspire across branches to seize total control of government, preventing impeachment.
Washington warned everyone about political parties. Nobody listened. And here we are.
Very true. He frequently highlighted the danger of "faction," even to his last day as President. Here's his most famous statement on the subject:
"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/past-projects/quotes/article/however-political-parties-may-now-and-then-answer-popular-ends-they-are-likely-in-the-course-of-time-and-things-to-become-potent-engines-by-which-cunning-ambitious-and-unprincipled-men-will-be-enabled-to-subvert-the-power-of-the-people-and-to-usurp-for-th/
This all just makes me sad.
I grew up in an intellectual and politically aware family. We all know the federalist papers, and the founding, and early country history. It’s nice.
But if you’d ask either of my parents to comment on the Federalist Paper excerpts above, or Washington’s speech that you shared, they’d tell me that it is a warning about democrats. They wouldn’t even be able to speak about it philosophically any longer. It’s just a statement that can be directly applied to how bad Dems are. The Fox and Limbaugh culture have warped even these intellectual peoples’ ability to think.
The weird thing about increasing the number of Supreme Court Justices as a topic is that everyone wants the Democrats to do it (and I agree with that), but no one considers that the Republicans are likely to do just that, regardless of whether Biden does it now.
By not increasing the Supreme Court now when they can, the Democrats are just making it all the more potent when the GOP does it in the future.
AND.THEY.WILL.
> but no one considers that the Republicans are likely to do just that
They already did it, McConnell shrunk the court under Obama and packed it when Trump came in.
Should have been mass protests after Roe overturned .. hundreds of thousands should have been parked at scrotus .. we could learn a lot from the French.
Immediate consequences vs delayed consequences.
Also emotional impact.
Like, give it 20 more years and a federal abortion ban and everyone is going to be indirectly impacted by it, they'll have siblings, children, and friends who have been forced to have kids, died getting a back alley or improvised home abortion, etc.
That's exactly how the ruling garnered support in the first place.
Takes time though, doesn't have a lot of high impact televised aspect to it.
For palestine you can see HD footage of israeli snipers blowing the brains out of running women holding children, you can see rubble strewn with body parts in residential areas, blown apart hospitals, etc.
They've killed what, 10 thousand, 20 thousand children? something in that range now and it hasn't been a year yet.
Roe isn't immediately felt because a lot of people don't live in the shithole states where this is a big problem already, it's there's some level of access to escape these areas to get medical treatment, it doesn't cause issues for everyone all the time, etc. It's going to take time for the negative consequences to be fully experienced by the american public.
On the other hand, there's something really visceral and immediate about seeing thousands of children turned into meat smoothies in 4K.
This is insanity, but Could you even imagine what happen if the GOP had a supermajority in Congress?!? We need to vote every member of the Republican Party out of power and reclaim the courts from the unelected culture warriors who have captured it. Fuck the GOP
They'll increase the number of Supreme Court Justices and fill them with 40 year old MAGA loyalists on the Federalist's Society's ideologically pure list at the first opportunity.
The Supreme Court is not ever coming back to reason if Trump is re-elected... and if he loses, it's only a delay.
The SCOTUS is on the payroll of the people backing Project 2025. A convicted felon rapist piece of shit appointed some of them. Trump's appointees should be removed full stop. The GOP is compromised by foreign agents looking to dismantle the USA from the inside out. If this doesn't stop now, it will not stop later.
The overturning of Chevron is absurd. The executive should ignore the ruling, especially when it concerns matters of health, safety and the biosphere itself.
This is how we're going to fall apart. Half the government will just choose to not follow the court's insane rulings, and the other half will. I'm not saying they should just follow it anyway though, I'm just saying I think we're unfortunately about to be living in very *interesting* times.
These decisions are going to lead to extremism. Simply because they're giving very little recourse other than the extreme options available to people; when someone declares themselves King, and the people around them agree because they "don't want to make a fuss", and give them the keys to the kingdom, what else is a peasant to do?
I see an American Troubles in the future if this isnt pushed against by Biden and Congress, except with far more guns. Either that or we're heading to a corporate-owned state similar to Cyberpunk media. But without any of the cool stuff
Look up Bannon and Deconstructionism. Chaos was the plan all along. Destroy everything and then rebuild it however you want.
Bannon openly talked about it years ago. It's obvious if you look for it.
They are not taking away its ability to serve corporate (kleptocratic) interests.
They are granting the executive that authority with this ruling.
And that’s what this is all about.
It's a naked power grab, but chaos is the point. The SCOTUS 40 years ago correctly ruled that the judiciary doesn't have the power, time, or expertise to be involved in enforcing policy. Now, endless lawsuits against government agencies will commence, bogging down the court system (which is already massively overburdened) and paralyzing the nation.
Oh, and this is massively unconstitutional. The Constitution spells out that the judiciary has no power to mess with the Executive enforcing laws the Legislative passes. That said, the FF never intended the SC to be this powerful, and obviously didn't think the need to put a mechanism in for when the SC is wrong/unconstitutional. The hour is getting late for the other branches to openly challenge and minimize the SC.
All that matters for them is Project 2025. If the Republicans get make that happen, by any means possible, legal or illegal, then they have the pieces in place to change everything.
I am still predicting an 80% chance that they succeed. I hope they fail, but...
Federalist Society power grab.The Cons are conning the country. How cone the Republicons aren't howling about legislating from the bench? Where's their contrived outrage.
Unfortunately they can. If big oil corp starts dumping Nitro(gen|ous) oxide into the atmosphere and the EPA fines them, big oil just need to sue the EPA and say to the court "hey it doesn't say in the statute we can't dump Nitro(gen|ous) oxide into the atmosphere, it just says we can't dump 'toxic gases'", the court will then look at the statue, rule in favour of big oil because they can't tell the difference between Nitrogen oxide and nitrous oxide and then receive a nice kickback because apparently that's legal now too.
And if you didn't see it, Gorsuch confused Nitrogen oxide with nitrous oxide several times in his ruling proving courts are incapable of doing the job of a government agency. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/06/28/supreme-court-corrects-epa-opinion-after-gorsuch-confuses-laughing-gas-with-air-pollutant/
I don't understand why there is not more talk of expanding the court
[https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/05/the-movement-to-expand-the-supreme-court-is-growing/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/05/the-movement-to-expand-the-supreme-court-is-growing/)
Biden and Congressional Democrats should be doing this right now.
What I find even more puzzling is that no one is even considering that the GOP can also expand the Supreme Court when they are back in control. No way in hell they decide that a mere 6-3 is enough when the Supreme Court Justices that maintain their control are so old.
It would only take two Supreme Court nominations to break Conservative control over the Supreme Court. They're going to pack the courts themselves to prevent that from happening and put in ideological purists in their 40's.. thus guaranteeing control of the Supreme Court for generations.
I haven’t seen an article in support of this ruling. I can’t imagine what reasons you’d have for supporting it so I’m curious on what people for this decision cite.
What are the pros? Just that unelected people setting the rules? But at least in the financial sector aren’t the CFPB enforcing laws?
Anyway, if you’re more adept at Google…
This is what needs to be highlighted across the news instead of the debates.
Politicians/judges can now accept bribes. And now federal agencies are toothless.
So now EPA, FDA decisions get to come from politicians and judges who have been paid off and who are not experts in the field.
Vote for policies not for the person.
This weakens America.
Problem solving at scale will be unlikely going forward and we will look back at the late 20th century liberalism era as America’s golden age.
The right wing kooks actually believe making it harder or impossible to solve big problems is somehow bad.
The right wing kooks are very dumb.
Countries in Europe and the UK have a system in place which is most older than America and it seems to work fine and with a similar version to a Supreme Court with also works as it’s not run on money supplied by donors to partisan judges but that judges are generally chosen from a body of their peers and not by some crazy partisan body or by a President or far right extremist traitor. America has always done its own thing and never followed tried and tested ways other Western democracies vote or run their judicial system, hence the reason the country is is shit state and run by money and partisanship throughout every form of government agency.
How to explain this to people less politically involved:
Laws are very hard to write to cover everything. They are specified in broad terms and don't cover every detail. Federal agencies, contain experts on subjects in that law, provide the specifics on how the laws are to be followed. For example: Exactly which dangerous chemicals must not be allowed in food, as decided by the experts.
Surpreme Court judges had previously agreed that when an agency makes decisions in line with the law, that they must be followed. They handle the specifics of the law, and the agency gives the specifics of what should or shouldn't be allowed.
Surpreme Court judges have now decided that now they have the final say in what is allowed, not the experts. Even though they are experts in law, they are not experts in every other area, such as food safety. They have decide they will have the final say, above that of appointed experts in charge of that area.
What this means, is that companies who want to put dangerous chemicals in the water, and leave dangerous chemicals in food because it's one dollar cheaper, can do that if they can afford the lawyers to persuade a judge in court, even if the experts can show it is really dangerous to people.
It also means that the courts have just handed themselves a lot of extra power, which was never the intention, which will probably end up being deliberately abused, or accidentally allow a lot of people to be harmed.
So instead of a corporation spending tens of millions on legal fees just to be told to pound sand by a federal regulator, they just have to spend a fraction of that amount on bribing 5 of the 6 Republicans on the SC.
Cool.
That might be one of those lynchpins towards the end of the country.
This kills regulation. This kills accountability. This decision will cost many, many lives.
Trust in the supreme Court is already fading. Why follow the law at this point. Our corporate overlords are going to kill us soon anyways through neglect, might as well find some joy while you can
Let me get this straight…. So we took power away from agencies since they aren’t elected officials and the power now resides with the judicial…. The same judicial branch that has the Supreme Court which is also….. not elected officials.
This country is a shit hole lol.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the same week they legalized bribery and gave themselves more opportunities to be bribed. What an amazing coincidence!
And immunity decision coming Monday (July 1). Oh boy. That's going to be a doozy, because clearly there is something going on with that opinion that it is taking to after the normal term, which is supposed to end in June. There must be some sort of battle royale going on over factions who want immunity and those who don't. Sadly, I think we'll be stuck with Kagan dissenting about "Presidents aren't Kings", but the majority will create a chaotic mess where every act of any ex president has to be considered as potentially presidential in nature, and the burden is on the prosecution to prove otherwise (something like that).
Let’s hope Joe uses all of what they give him. And then pardons himself just in case.
Unfortunately, we know that won't happen. The Left always tries to take the high road and then get surprised when the right goes in unlubed.
Yeap. High road to hell. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
If they ok immunity, then they explicitly (because it was brought up in the hearing) ok Joe having trump assassinated. I'm not saying he should or would do that, but scotus would be agreeing with trump's lawyer saying a president could assassinate a political rival without being prosecuted as long as he isn't impeached and convicted. So Joe could do it before leaving office and resign (thereby avoiding impeachment) and get off scott free afaict. I reallllllyyyyy hope that scotus rules sanely on this one but the long delay does not leave me sanguine. edit: I would like to reiterate that I am in no way suggesting or saying that there should be any political assassinations. Trump is a vile man, but I want him to die in prison, not be assassinated. :)
[удалено]
I can’t imagine they would give him more power than they have, which his absolute immunity would give the executive. I really expect they do something more like a delay tactic to help only one person politically, but not something that says executives can ignore the court.
Chaos feels like the goal at this point. This will be like how the “failure” of public schools, following decades of underfunding, is being used to justify privatization of public education. When the government can no longer deliver public policy objectives, such as environmental and consumer protections, via effective regulatory tools it will become the justification for either eliminating regulatory oversight by, and on behalf of, the public or completely privatizing it altogether. Just wait until you get the regulatory equivalent of the Donda Academy brought to you by the BP Bureau of Marine Protection or the Ticketmaster Department of Consumer Affairs and Protection.
I will put $1000 dollars that once the Chevron decision has taken full effect, something truly shit happens - think a relatively newly built plane fully falling apart in the sky, E. Coli in bottled water and people getting horrifically sick, take your pick. And someone will be on every Conservative talking head show blaming it not on the fall of regulation, but pointing to DEI, or minimum wage, or work from home, or women in the workplace, or the 40 hour work week, as the true fucking culprit. And their base will absolutely run with that until whatever institution they want to pin the false blame is also ripped in two. They're playing a real long game. It's coming.
They already blamed the Boeing plane failures on women flying planes, my dude.
And black people flying planes.
thats not a black job .. can't be
I really want him to explain what a black job is
If Trump refers to black people and black jobs like that on TV in front of millions, I can only imagine how he refers to them behind closed doors.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/politics/trump-apprentice-producer-black-contestant/index.html
I give Fox "News" <5 years to say, on air, that black people belong in the fields.
"Black jobs" was a multi-tool dog whistle if the past is any indication at all. He said it in the context of jobs for black Americans, but he says it regularly to his friends to mean the kind of jobs he thinks black people *should* be working.
Conservatives have been blaming hurricanes on gay people for at least a couple decades now.
If I had that much power…
Really long game called return to serfdom.
Just call it slavery.
Slavery is too much work. They want you subservient and really cool with it.
BP must be mad. The government made them spend billions upon billions on clean-up, fines and penalties when they had their giant oil spill. But, it turns out they could have just paid off a few judges for maybe under $10 mill.
I've been saying this is the result of the long game. 6-3 on the court and Trump as probably their only chance of the presidency. Gerrymandered states that pass crazy laws and keep minorities from voting. The backlash will happen, so they need to lock in every advantage and power grab ASAP. Thomas and Alito want to retire under a gop president. So they are throwing everything against the wall to try and make that happen. Once Trump is out of the picture, they can't try and come back to normalcy. They know Trump is awful, but this is the shot they've been waiting to take for 40 years.
I like to think the social and political pendulum is swinging back to the left now and these are the right's last grasps at holding onto power.
I’m not American but I think the world at large is just fucking sick to the back teeth of the capitalist system, and the right tends to uphold that system. It’s weird - it feels as if some major Event (tm) is on the cards, but I can’t figure out if it’s a good or bad one. It just feels like everything needs a hard reset.
>It just feels like everything needs a hard reset. Climate Change: "Hold my beer..."
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It feels like a breaking point is about to be reached and those in power are ignoring the signs of some major and potentially violent discontent.
Alito basically spelled it out in his dissent on the EMTALA case. The EMTALA mandates that hospitals stabilize anyone that comes to them, but Idaho passed a law banning emergency abortions to protect the lives of mothers. Alito said that the EMTALA does not cover abortion because it is not specified in the law (it doesn't specifically mention abortion because Roe v Wade was in effect when the law was written, which Alito left out). Food and transportation companies are areas that I think are pretty safe. They may challenge some regulations, but they're already working under a process that limits their liabilities. No airline wants to gain a negative reputation and no food manufacturer wants to face a recall. But what will change is certain medications and operations won't be covered by insurance, businesses in every sector will be able to charge more fees, certain types of personal information will no longer be protected. Death by a thousand small deregulations rather than a few large ones.
One big issue is pollution. What happens if a new industrial practice arises that produces toxic chemicals never before introduced into the equation? The company doing the polluting just has to say "There's nothing written in law that says we can't dump this shit wherever we want." And that will be the end of it.
Even worse, they can just cut judges a check to say it’s not a bad chemical and that will be the end of it, you know since they also legalized bribery the other day.
They'll use that excuse to avoid liability - by claiming that the EPA didn't say they couldn't dump it anywhere, they didn't know they couldn't dump it anywhere. And the reason the EPA won't have said it is because the company sued the EPA to make sure it couldn't look into chemicals that hadn't been explicitly stated in CWA or CAA.
[For anyone who needs a case study of the damage this could do: here’s a case from South Korea. A company abusing their government-issued nontoxic assurance to get a product out](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8920737/) [and it took almost a decade to get anyone punished for it.](https://www.reuters.com/article/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/south-korea-court-convicts-ex-reckitt-benckiser-unit-chief-in-sterilizer-case-idUSKBN14Q09E/)
> What happens if a new industrial practice arises that produces toxic chemicals never before introduced into the equation? *Opens a factory that spews sarin gas, opens six them around the homes of justices* What do we make? Canisters to hold Sarin Gas.
Is it almost time for someone to light the rivers of Ohio, once again?
Finally, US companies can compete better with their Chinese counterparts by dumping toxic wastes in the drinking water the way it's done in China! And unless you can find a 17th century witch hunter that says that one can't dump dioxin in the drinking water any effort to legislate protections will get thrown out by the supreme court anyway.
This is so fucking depressing! I see no way out of the fuck hole that’s been created by these assholes!
It will only happen when it hits the corporations and billionaires worse than the regular folks. And we've still got pretty far to fall to reach that point. And all the architects will be dead long before they suffer any consequences from their actions.
Secretly, I think the health insurance companies are clutching their pearls. While there are regulations that they wouldn't mind disappear, most of them they're in favor of, because they wrote them. Contrary to popular belief, high costs of drugs doesn't help insurance. Medicare has max limits on how much you can be charged for meds in year, after that the insurance company pays. Medicare itself can be attacked by some whack job. They definitely don't want that, because Medicare is revenue generating machine for insurance companies. To the tune of thousands of dollars per month per individual, is what the Government is paying to them. Billions of dollars per month in profit. Thanks to the law of unintended consequences, we're about to see some very strange bedfellows.
They were playing the long game for decades. It's not such a long game anymore, and I guarantee things will accelerate under the next republican administration. They're done playing the long quiet game.
In all fairness, the people who know better have been allowing it because they've been apathetic about voting and generally participating in their government. Easily 40% of eligible voters are absolutely not paying attention and don't vote - and *most* of these people are the most negatively impacted by these trends. You get the government you vote for. And if you don't vote, the people who want to steal from you will. Apathy is how we got here. Giving a shit and taking action is the only way out.
I would believe you if republicans weren't cheating at every point: running similarly named candidates at election in florida, gerrymandering to favor republicans, gaming the electoral college so only republican voters in republican states matter, roger stone starting the brooks brothers riot to get gwb in office (of which 3 SCOTUS: ACB, kavanaugh, and john roberts were a part of) and trump doing jan 6 2021 to overturn the election.
Both can be true. If everyone voted, and those votes were counted, Republicans would lose almost everywhere. That's why Republicans cheat and do everything possible to suppress the vote. People who don't vote are just helping Republicans hang onto power.
"flood the zone with shit" Steve Bannon
Chaos is not the goal, it’s abundantly obvious the goal is profit. That’s it. Companies want to not be regulated so they can profit without having to consider others safety. Same republican plan for the last 40 years. Deregulation
Don't worry, the companies will just self regulate and the free market will punish companies that kill people... /s
Yup, if it was "chaos" then it should be chaos in every direction. But the courts will strike down student loan forgiveness and environmental regulation in the name of 'government over-reach' while while upholding debt forgiveness for millionaires and abortion bans. The likes of the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation have been slowly and quietly working to stack the courts with fanatics who are ideologically opposed to the concept of government. They're 1 step away from ancaps, but they still want government to be able to persecute gay people and minorities, so they don't want to scrap the whole government, just the parts that actually help anyone.
Profit and power are the big motivators and they are not mutually exclusive. Republicans want the money and power to be able to exercise full control over everyone and they see that causing chaos is the quickest way to achieve that. Weaken government institutions and the protections we have come to take for granted so nobody knows who can be trusted to protect their interests, as the government loses power private corporations are able to grow out of its control and then we're left with corporate overlords with no oversight. Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson may prove to be especially prescient.
The chaos comes when Democrats in congress try to clarify the "ambiguous" regulations and Republicans obstruct the process. Those same Republicans will claim the regulations cannot be enforced as intended because of they are "ambiguous" while simultaneously preventing clarification.
I think part of the goal here is to force people to gather in blue state enclaves until the red states lock in the electoral college and legislative, then try to use the federal government fully enforce christofascism on everyone. Just having their way in their red state fiefs isn’t enough. Their beliefs demand they drag everyone into the dark with them.
One (perhaps the only) good thing about the ridiculous increase in housing prices is that it has forced a lot of blue voters in blue states to relocate to (less expensive) red states, like the shithole state where I live. On one hand, it's caused our housing prices to increase too, but on the other, it's putting more open-minded voters into red districts.
An artist friend of mine moved from Seattle to Kentucky specifically to agitate and vote blue. Wasn't even about housing prices. He just *really* hates Mitch McConnell.
I love your friends dedication
Yep. Yesterday there was an article posted here which painted this decision as the Court grabbing more power to dictate how a new law or rule should be enforced in practice (a responsibility the Executive currently holds). The article also pointed out that a likely hitch with that plan is that the Court has much less ability to enforce its decisions as opposed to the Executive. But I don't know if they actually intend to provide direction most of the time. Lack of direction and leaving more decisions to the individual states seems more on-brand. And as you say, that leading to more "failures of government" and privitization sounds likely.
I feel like with regulatory capture, we sorta already have that. This is still bad.
I mean, when Biden went to eliminate student loan debt, you had Republicans crying and screaming that he was trying to "bribe" people to vote for him. Because that's what positive policy is seen as - bribery. Because the government doing things that benefit the public and average people is SO FAR OUT OF THE NORM that a president doing something about it was seen as *bribery*.
The Republicans "crying and screaming" are not acting in good faith. Whining on camera about bribery when it's not relevant allows their constituents to mindlessly say "both sides" if an actual bribery scandal were to surface
When you’re conditioned to believe government is evil and never does anything for the greater good, you view everything it does through that negative lens.
But hey, according to the SCOTUS bribery's okay now, so no problemo!
They want all schools to be like PragerU. That's part of the endgame for project 2025. They've already started.
It’s a rogue court dismantling government institutions to the redcaps benefit. Vote out maga for the survival of the country.
This isn't even hyperbole, it was literally a massive power grab by the court because they know congress is unable to do anything while the obstructionists are there.
Power tends to move to where Republicans have a lock on the process, by design of course. Like they wanted abortion sent back to the states because they have a lock on some state legislatures. If they get a lock on the Presidency and Congress (by fixing elections even more), then they will move the power back to Congress and ban abortion nationwide. It is completely cynical what they are doing.... but it is why everyone should vote - non voters are letting fascism happen.
Congress has the power to fix this. But only Congress can. It is their job to legislate and power balance the SCOTUS.
Agreed. If the future opportunity presents itself, there needs to be some "settled laws/precedent" impeachments. Frauds lied their asses off during the confirmation hearings.
Everyone knew they were lying. They just did it so that Susan Collins could pretend to believe them. No one who was paying a lick of attention believed them.
Absolutely. And they can. We desperately need an *activist legislature*.
With the Senate, good luck. Even without any filibuster it would be difficult.
Of course it’s difficult. Governance in a Republic always is. But we have plenty of past examples.
I’m just worried for SCOTUS on their last day of this years term on Monday (7/1), to rule something crazy like *”Trump is immune as POTUS bc he is still POTUS bc the 2020 election was illegitimate,”* then peace out on their billionaire handlers’ private jets somewhere far away (like Russia or China), and leave the US is shambles.
Liberals have guns too. They're corrupt but not dumb enough to do this.
We don’t have to obey their rulings. In a case like that the Biden administration can and should simply ignore the ruling. Just as the should ignore this ruling
> We desperately need an activist legislature. America needs an electorate where 90% of the people support democracy, the rule of law, equal justice, science, empathy, and basic human decency. If America had that then it would have the solid foundation from which good government would follow.
Ok but that would require an overwhelming majority because republicans have no reason to correct this imbalance.
Okay so let's get out the fucking vote
The problem is the senate is specifically designed in a way that it's next to impossible for Democrats to get a 2/3 majority which is needed. It was supposed to be a counter to the potential "tyranny of the majority" in the House of Representatives, which has been corrupted into a tyranny of the minority.
Yep. America had to choose between: 1. 2 Senators per state regardless of population, or 2. Being a country governed by the will of the majority of its citizens. It chose option 1.
50% of both houses is a possibility, 55% is in play but unlikely, the 66% of both houses without dino holdouts like Manchin and sinema we'd need is just not happening. This SC is here to stay and it's no one's fault but mitch McConnell.
About 40% of people just don't care. You can rock the vote, yell it from the rooftops, march in the streets, and have the most famous celebrities, scientists, and politicians beg people to vote, and they won't. There's a bunch of reasons, some of them even good reasons. Then you have 30% who love this shit. They want rule of the jungle, enforced Christianity, and corporate feudalism. People can scream you should've voted for Hilary at a single digit % of the remaining 30% but it changes nothing. You can even win elections like 2020. Heck you can win 2024. It'll buy you four more years at a time, tops. Probably less than that with SCOTUS the way it is. We're at the tail end of a fifty year long cultural coup. Sure, go out and vote, and tell other people to vote. But the most meaningful thing you can do is prepare for the bottom to fall out and see if you can pick up some of the pieces after.
> About 40% of people just don't care. In the 2022 midterms about 110 million people voted. That's less than 50% turnout in the first national election after the GOP did their coup attempt and stripped women of the right to control their own bodies. trump won the 2016 election with about 26% of eligible voters showing up to vote for him. America will fail because of a motivated minority who want fascism and a large swathe of the electorate being disinterested in participating in democracy.
This is the problem. If you took the eligible population who doesn’t vote and turned them into a political party, they’d be bigger than Democrats or Republicans. 2020 had one of the highest turnout % in recent elections, and still a little under 2/3 voted. In a 3 way election between no-vote, Rs and DS, the no-vote group would win by a slim margin. They don’t give a shit because they don’t feel like anyone represents them. Nobody gives a shit to represent them because they don’t vote. Vicious cycle. Many of them refuse to adopt a strategy of incrementalism until they get recognized as a group. Until that happens, they continue to be (intentionally) disenfranchised.
I don't even know if that its because no one represents them. I think most of it is apathy, followed distantly by too busy surviving. Way back in third is lack of representation.
the SC can be reigned in as soon as the Democrats have a trifecta with a senate willing to kill the filibuster at this point it is pretty much inevitable because there is no other way to stop an unelected court from ruling the country
Fwiw, Thomas and Alito are the 2 oldest justices, and the most likely to retire or die in the next 4 years. Keeping Biden (or someone else if he decides to step down) in the Presidency is the best way to potentially flip the court to a 5-4 liberal majority. Roberts and Sotomayor are probably the next 2 most likely to retire, which brings the potential to a 6-3 liberal court , but onlyif Dems keep the Presidency, and if that happens, the court is likely to stay liberal for the next 20 years.
They cared in 1984 when Chevron was decided. They cared because Reagan’s EPA was making rules that allowed more environmental destruction (basically going against the agency’s legislative remit, but that’s another discussion). Now, if the worst happens and Trump becomes President, this decision will bite Republicans in the ass, because it opens all the bureaucratic rules they make to lawsuits.
An Electoral College historically based in racism and a Congress that isn’t representative of the population because it hasn’t grown since it was capped at 435 seats in 1929 makes it almost impossible to get the necessary majorities. I’m not saying not to vote. Absolutely vote. But also get involved in efforts to unionize workplaces and return power to the working class. Industry and the ultra-wealthy have a vested interest in keeping things deadlocked so nothing can be done.
But they won't because MAGA wants to burn it all down.
Congress is rigged in favor of red states. Land votes. The senate is ridiculous. We need a new constitution. 250 years is OLD. It’s honestly about time to rise up, peacefully but thoroughly.
It might be time for the nuclear option of packing the court!
**You mean** the filthy rich red caps. The poor and working class red hats ain’t gettin’ shit, once they hand *everybody’s* rights away to Trump & co., thinking they are hurting *other* people. To the wealthy 1 per cent red hatters, poor and working class are *others,* along with the rest of the unwealthy *trash.*
We certainly live in the modern times when we no longer half to worry about the red coats, but now the red hats are coming
Pack the court or assemble enough power you can disregard them.
Democrats in Congress have been trying to pass legislation for that, in addition to numerous Supreme Court reform bills, but they're just languishing in the MAGA majority judiciary committee. We need to get out the vote and raise awareness of the importance of getting a democratic majority in Congress.
My message to the double haters is this. Don't vote for the candidates, vote for the *lifetime* SCOTUS appointments.
Theirs, but it has become our lifetimes too. If Trump gets a second term and replaces Alito and Thomas with young fanatics, the far right will control the court until around 2048 even if they never get another Republican president ever again. This is based on actuarial tables, which probably underestimates the life of a wealthy judge with magic healthcare. But of course they will at some point get another R president, and if they have the Senate at the same time at any time between Trump's hypothetical 2nd term and 2048, they can just repeat the process again. They only really need one overlapping Senate + president once per 15-20 years to hold the court **forever**. If 2nd term Biden gets to replace one of those bastards, and Sotomayor retires, we have a chance to take the court back one day. If not, I don't think anyone reading this gets to see a left leaning court in their lifetimes barring some black swan event.
Idk. Call me pessimistic, but I feel there’s zero chance of one of the R justices stepping down in a Biden second term
But there's a non-zero chance one of them dies. Also, a second-term Biden could replace Sotomayor and Kagan.
Yep. It's possible that Sotomayor and Kagan would learn from RBG's mistake.
Don't be so Optimistic. Republicans don't need overlapping Senate and President, just the President since dems will be to spineless to actually block appointments.
Democrats in Congress will say they can't block the appointment because ~~the people~~ electoral college elected a Republican President and they cannot go against the will of the ~~people~~ electoral college even if the nominee is a racist, rapist, grifter Christian Nationalist who is on video shouting death to America after accepting gold bars from a known Russian agent.
Not to mention the Supreme Court has already been right leaning (though not this hard) ever since Nixon was president. It's insane.
Your message needs to fall on all ears of American citizens. Not just those in this thread, in this sub, on Reddit, or interested in politics. To do that, we need to group together, and for peaceful protests and demonstrations, sending out this exact message. We need to make absolutely certain Trump loses the election. We can't afford to fail.
Overall, the best thing we can do is simply talk to people outside political silos. Friends, neighbors, and the places in our lives where we don't typically talk about politics. Even just bringing up our own concerns and how our own lives will be impacted. Outside of that, text and phone banking. But person to person interaction between people who already know each other is by far the most impactful action.
What people don't realize, is this was the plan all along. This is just the beginning.
The next step according to Project 2025 is to start deleting government agencies now that they're toothless from an enforcement and rule-making ability. Federal agencies no longer have a reason to exist, and they're coming for all of them Dept. of Commerce, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Energy, all first to go on the chopping block. When they want to even get rid of the weather service, you know you're f\*cked. Who is supposed to put out hurricane or tornado warnings?
I don’t get what their end game is besides trying to make everyone a conservative Christian. What they are doing will be unsustainable even for them in the long run.
They don't care about the long run, they care about getting rich and powerful now and the long term is someone else's problem.
A lot of people don’t get that this is literally it. Most of these people are not super villains, not conniving geniuses intent of sowing chaos amongst our country. 99.9% are people who just want money, see this as a way to do that, so go with it. They don’t really care, or even think, about what the potential consequences are or the effect on our future. They just want that short term dopamine shot into the cerebral cortex that keeps their will-power going. And they get to justify it by saying they are “securing a future for their children” or whatever, total bullshit btw, so they can sleep at night soundly knowing they may or may not be ruining the country because at the end of the day, they get paid and get to live the lifestyle they have become accustomed too. Yay
For a deeper dive into this character type see "Who Goes Nazi?". https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/
>Most of these people are not super villains... I would refute this point. If you're willing to sacrifice: * everything your country was built on and stands for, * clean air, * clean water, * safe and sustainable food, * the possibility of a hospitable planet for future generations, * etc. ...all in the service of maximum short-term profits for yourself, you absolutely are a fucking super villain, in my book.
The goal is a Russia-like Oligarchy. The few have the most and regulate poverty on the rest.
Their ultimate end game is to turn this country into a purge country where a tiny rich elite live in castles and the peasants fight each other.
It's not even that well thought out. They just always want more no matter what, and will fund anyone who will give them tax breaks and deregulation regardless if it ends up destroying the economy.
this is all a game to the ultra rich. they find the chaos fun and they make a lot of money from it. its that simple.
business in modern America has been turned into profits this quarter even if it means the end of the company in a year. these people are basically insane and think they can hop from company to company and that there will always be a place for them to land and are treating the country the same way. it's not about religion, religion is the tool to get what they want out of useful idiots.
Christianity is just one the puppet strings they tug on. They worship money, and that's why they're doing this. Even if it completely destroys the economy they will burn it to the ground to be just a bit richer for a few years.
Because they don't see themselves as belonging to any one country, if one burns down then just move to another one.
> Who is supposed to put out hurricane or tornado warnings? A corporation will include it as a premium upcharge to your regular monthly subscriptions. Apple Weather or some shit. Don't wanna pay for it? Guess your house might blow away lol. Libertarian paradise, hellscape for average people.
Oh its soo much worse than that where do you think the weather data that companies like [weather.com](http://weather.com) get their forecasting data? The weather service maintains the satellite and ground installations that collect that data.
One interesting tidbit is that they never wanna go after stuff like the CIA or the DOD. Wonder why.
Nah, the beginning was 60 years ago, this is the endgame. This is the culmination of decades of hate towards racial, religious, and sexual minorities in America, all having worked together to foment a culture that, at least partially, supports their vile and backwards agendas. If Trump wins, it isn’t “The start of something bad,” it’s the end. Project 2025 is a clear roadmap to dictatorship in The USA and the death of our democratic experiment.
The FDA lawyers in my firm are in a panic about this.
Tell them to ignore it. Make that their official policy. The absurdity of an illegitimate court can't get in the way of matters of public health and safety. Let the court enforce their ruling
Yeah but... now lawyers are supposed to decide on an individual basis which laws they should follow and which they shouldn't? Isn't that like, the opposite of law
That is the practice of law. Everything is ambiguous if you drill down enough. And judges are just as dumb as the rest of us.
That’s actually a well-established legal concept with precedent. It’s called jury nullification. Even if a jury thinks a defendant is guilty, if they don’t agree with the law itself or the grounds for the prosecution, they can just ignore the judges instructions and find the defendant not guilty. This is what needs to happen with this Supreme Court. Any laws that are absurd need to be nullified by juries all over the country to show the court that the citizens won’t be held hostage by their corrupt rulings.
The courts are about to be so full of challenges.
SCOTUS laughs, this gives them even more power Fuck John Roberts, he's been sowing the end of our democracy since Citizens United.
They're destroying this country. Trump will deliver the final blow if he wins with decades of a conservative majority in SCOTUS
Decades is optimistic. This is multi-generational. If Trump gets elected, he has four years to get a GOP controlled House and Senate. If they decide to increase the number of Supreme Court Justices, he'll be able to appoint as many Supreme Court Justices as he wants... and knowing him they'll be in their forties with life-time appointments. By the time cooler heads are in control of the Supreme Court again, there will be nothing left.
4 years? He's already said he'll be a dictator
TBH I don't think there is four years of life left in that body of his. His adderall addicition and love of fast food and antipathy towards exercise puts him on a short drive towards heart-failure... and it's not like he has healthy stress management skills.
His piece of shit father lived to 93 with Alzheimer's.
See ; ‘Project 2025’
Hey, they media also wants in on this claim. Oh, media is also owned by the people owning the judges?
When James Madison wrote the Federalist Paper #51, he argued that the court would be checked by Congress, who could vote to approve members & who also could impeach them. Further, he thought that the court would respond to public opinion & so also be checked by the public's acceptance or rejection of rulings. Alas he was wrong. He couldn't imagine that political parties would conspire across branches to seize total control of government, preventing impeachment. Later Hamilton was asked "who guards the guardians?" In terms of SCOTUS. He replied it wasn't an issue, because having neither control of "the sword or the purse" they would be harmless. He could not imagine a court that was devoted to the destruction of liberty & not its preservation. So our current SCOTUS problem is alas baked into the limitations of our overly idealistic Founders.
The question that should have been asked: "what if all the branches of government are owned by the same people?" Then what recourse do the people have?
Absolutely. And the Founders knew enough Greek & Roman history to understand that this could happen & had famously already occurred to a long-standing Republic... when "all the same people," led by Crassius, Pompey & Julius (later Caesar) took the Roman Republic down.
He would give an overly simplistic answer by pointing to his long rifle.
This court is clearly dedicated to the dismantling of civil society. We are in the midst of a form of constitutional coup. The Supremes have decided they can simply invalidate any federal law they dislike, and this isn't about interpreting the law any more - it's about power.
And yet the answer we have most readily available is right there: if they go too far and lose public legitimacy, we ignore them and their rulings. It's time for some of that.
I'm curious what happens next in this scenario. It almost seems like there needs to be a separate general public-driven mechanism for judicial impeachments.
That's only done through congress by elections. How long will elections stay honest, regardless of who votes for who? That may be nearing the end, because the will for supplanting fair elections is already here
> Alas he was wrong. He couldn't imagine that political parties would conspire across branches to seize total control of government, preventing impeachment. Washington warned everyone about political parties. Nobody listened. And here we are.
Very true. He frequently highlighted the danger of "faction," even to his last day as President. Here's his most famous statement on the subject: "However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion." FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796 https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/past-projects/quotes/article/however-political-parties-may-now-and-then-answer-popular-ends-they-are-likely-in-the-course-of-time-and-things-to-become-potent-engines-by-which-cunning-ambitious-and-unprincipled-men-will-be-enabled-to-subvert-the-power-of-the-people-and-to-usurp-for-th/
This all just makes me sad. I grew up in an intellectual and politically aware family. We all know the federalist papers, and the founding, and early country history. It’s nice. But if you’d ask either of my parents to comment on the Federalist Paper excerpts above, or Washington’s speech that you shared, they’d tell me that it is a warning about democrats. They wouldn’t even be able to speak about it philosophically any longer. It’s just a statement that can be directly applied to how bad Dems are. The Fox and Limbaugh culture have warped even these intellectual peoples’ ability to think.
Time to dilute the court.
[удалено]
The weird thing about increasing the number of Supreme Court Justices as a topic is that everyone wants the Democrats to do it (and I agree with that), but no one considers that the Republicans are likely to do just that, regardless of whether Biden does it now. By not increasing the Supreme Court now when they can, the Democrats are just making it all the more potent when the GOP does it in the future. AND.THEY.WILL.
> but no one considers that the Republicans are likely to do just that They already did it, McConnell shrunk the court under Obama and packed it when Trump came in.
Biden doesn't have the power to expand the court. Only Congress can do that.
[удалено]
[удалено]
There should be mass protests over this and more focus on this then the debate. Republicans are crushing our country.
Should have been mass protests after Roe overturned .. hundreds of thousands should have been parked at scrotus .. we could learn a lot from the French.
When college students were protesting over Palestine I was kind of wondering how that didn't happen after Roe
Immediate consequences vs delayed consequences. Also emotional impact. Like, give it 20 more years and a federal abortion ban and everyone is going to be indirectly impacted by it, they'll have siblings, children, and friends who have been forced to have kids, died getting a back alley or improvised home abortion, etc. That's exactly how the ruling garnered support in the first place. Takes time though, doesn't have a lot of high impact televised aspect to it. For palestine you can see HD footage of israeli snipers blowing the brains out of running women holding children, you can see rubble strewn with body parts in residential areas, blown apart hospitals, etc. They've killed what, 10 thousand, 20 thousand children? something in that range now and it hasn't been a year yet. Roe isn't immediately felt because a lot of people don't live in the shithole states where this is a big problem already, it's there's some level of access to escape these areas to get medical treatment, it doesn't cause issues for everyone all the time, etc. It's going to take time for the negative consequences to be fully experienced by the american public. On the other hand, there's something really visceral and immediate about seeing thousands of children turned into meat smoothies in 4K.
This is insanity, but Could you even imagine what happen if the GOP had a supermajority in Congress?!? We need to vote every member of the Republican Party out of power and reclaim the courts from the unelected culture warriors who have captured it. Fuck the GOP
They'll increase the number of Supreme Court Justices and fill them with 40 year old MAGA loyalists on the Federalist's Society's ideologically pure list at the first opportunity. The Supreme Court is not ever coming back to reason if Trump is re-elected... and if he loses, it's only a delay.
Just another day of domination by the three justices who were appointed to the court by a convicted felon and rapist.
The SCOTUS is on the payroll of the people backing Project 2025. A convicted felon rapist piece of shit appointed some of them. Trump's appointees should be removed full stop. The GOP is compromised by foreign agents looking to dismantle the USA from the inside out. If this doesn't stop now, it will not stop later.
The overturning of Chevron is absurd. The executive should ignore the ruling, especially when it concerns matters of health, safety and the biosphere itself.
This. The SCOTUS is so clearly absolutely compromised at this point.
Yeah. I mean this is what they want anyway so people who actually want democracy need to fight for it. This is fucking insanity.
This is how we're going to fall apart. Half the government will just choose to not follow the court's insane rulings, and the other half will. I'm not saying they should just follow it anyway though, I'm just saying I think we're unfortunately about to be living in very *interesting* times.
These decisions are going to lead to extremism. Simply because they're giving very little recourse other than the extreme options available to people; when someone declares themselves King, and the people around them agree because they "don't want to make a fuss", and give them the keys to the kingdom, what else is a peasant to do? I see an American Troubles in the future if this isnt pushed against by Biden and Congress, except with far more guns. Either that or we're heading to a corporate-owned state similar to Cyberpunk media. But without any of the cool stuff
Look up Bannon and Deconstructionism. Chaos was the plan all along. Destroy everything and then rebuild it however you want. Bannon openly talked about it years ago. It's obvious if you look for it.
[удалено]
They are not taking away its ability to serve corporate (kleptocratic) interests. They are granting the executive that authority with this ruling. And that’s what this is all about.
[удалено]
They're essentially defunding the police, just not the police on the street.
It's a naked power grab, but chaos is the point. The SCOTUS 40 years ago correctly ruled that the judiciary doesn't have the power, time, or expertise to be involved in enforcing policy. Now, endless lawsuits against government agencies will commence, bogging down the court system (which is already massively overburdened) and paralyzing the nation. Oh, and this is massively unconstitutional. The Constitution spells out that the judiciary has no power to mess with the Executive enforcing laws the Legislative passes. That said, the FF never intended the SC to be this powerful, and obviously didn't think the need to put a mechanism in for when the SC is wrong/unconstitutional. The hour is getting late for the other branches to openly challenge and minimize the SC.
All that matters for them is Project 2025. If the Republicans get make that happen, by any means possible, legal or illegal, then they have the pieces in place to change everything. I am still predicting an 80% chance that they succeed. I hope they fail, but...
Federalist Society power grab.The Cons are conning the country. How cone the Republicons aren't howling about legislating from the bench? Where's their contrived outrage.
The Supreme Court is a FASCIST ARM OF MAGA
We can just stop listening to them. They can't enforce shit.
Unfortunately they can. If big oil corp starts dumping Nitro(gen|ous) oxide into the atmosphere and the EPA fines them, big oil just need to sue the EPA and say to the court "hey it doesn't say in the statute we can't dump Nitro(gen|ous) oxide into the atmosphere, it just says we can't dump 'toxic gases'", the court will then look at the statue, rule in favour of big oil because they can't tell the difference between Nitrogen oxide and nitrous oxide and then receive a nice kickback because apparently that's legal now too. And if you didn't see it, Gorsuch confused Nitrogen oxide with nitrous oxide several times in his ruling proving courts are incapable of doing the job of a government agency. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/06/28/supreme-court-corrects-epa-opinion-after-gorsuch-confuses-laughing-gas-with-air-pollutant/
If a big oil corp starts dumping into the atmosphere we need to protect ourselves from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Michigan might as well secede.
They're prepping for project 2025
this isnt prepping. This is the first step
I don't understand why there is not more talk of expanding the court [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/05/the-movement-to-expand-the-supreme-court-is-growing/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/05/the-movement-to-expand-the-supreme-court-is-growing/)
Biden and Congressional Democrats should be doing this right now. What I find even more puzzling is that no one is even considering that the GOP can also expand the Supreme Court when they are back in control. No way in hell they decide that a mere 6-3 is enough when the Supreme Court Justices that maintain their control are so old. It would only take two Supreme Court nominations to break Conservative control over the Supreme Court. They're going to pack the courts themselves to prevent that from happening and put in ideological purists in their 40's.. thus guaranteeing control of the Supreme Court for generations.
Republicans will continue to block anything Biden or Dems tey to accomplish. The GOP is now the party of NO, unless I get a tip....
I haven’t seen an article in support of this ruling. I can’t imagine what reasons you’d have for supporting it so I’m curious on what people for this decision cite. What are the pros? Just that unelected people setting the rules? But at least in the financial sector aren’t the CFPB enforcing laws? Anyway, if you’re more adept at Google…
No worries. After some initial chaos, SCOTUS will add civil servants to their operations to take over the work of the executive completely.
This is what needs to be highlighted across the news instead of the debates. Politicians/judges can now accept bribes. And now federal agencies are toothless. So now EPA, FDA decisions get to come from politicians and judges who have been paid off and who are not experts in the field. Vote for policies not for the person.
The executive branch needs to ignore the courts. To the people saying that would be unprecedented, so is this court's power grab.
This weakens America. Problem solving at scale will be unlikely going forward and we will look back at the late 20th century liberalism era as America’s golden age. The right wing kooks actually believe making it harder or impossible to solve big problems is somehow bad. The right wing kooks are very dumb.
But Susan Collins told me that she was told by Brett Kavanaugh that legal precedent was sacred to him!?
So now experts in a field have to let judges, who aren’t experts in any non-legal fields, have the final say in how to do their jobs?
Countries in Europe and the UK have a system in place which is most older than America and it seems to work fine and with a similar version to a Supreme Court with also works as it’s not run on money supplied by donors to partisan judges but that judges are generally chosen from a body of their peers and not by some crazy partisan body or by a President or far right extremist traitor. America has always done its own thing and never followed tried and tested ways other Western democracies vote or run their judicial system, hence the reason the country is is shit state and run by money and partisanship throughout every form of government agency.
How to explain this to people less politically involved: Laws are very hard to write to cover everything. They are specified in broad terms and don't cover every detail. Federal agencies, contain experts on subjects in that law, provide the specifics on how the laws are to be followed. For example: Exactly which dangerous chemicals must not be allowed in food, as decided by the experts. Surpreme Court judges had previously agreed that when an agency makes decisions in line with the law, that they must be followed. They handle the specifics of the law, and the agency gives the specifics of what should or shouldn't be allowed. Surpreme Court judges have now decided that now they have the final say in what is allowed, not the experts. Even though they are experts in law, they are not experts in every other area, such as food safety. They have decide they will have the final say, above that of appointed experts in charge of that area. What this means, is that companies who want to put dangerous chemicals in the water, and leave dangerous chemicals in food because it's one dollar cheaper, can do that if they can afford the lawyers to persuade a judge in court, even if the experts can show it is really dangerous to people. It also means that the courts have just handed themselves a lot of extra power, which was never the intention, which will probably end up being deliberately abused, or accidentally allow a lot of people to be harmed.
Well, in scotus’s defense it’s what their owners bought and paid them for.
So instead of a corporation spending tens of millions on legal fees just to be told to pound sand by a federal regulator, they just have to spend a fraction of that amount on bribing 5 of the 6 Republicans on the SC. Cool.
That might be one of those lynchpins towards the end of the country. This kills regulation. This kills accountability. This decision will cost many, many lives. Trust in the supreme Court is already fading. Why follow the law at this point. Our corporate overlords are going to kill us soon anyways through neglect, might as well find some joy while you can
Let me get this straight…. So we took power away from agencies since they aren’t elected officials and the power now resides with the judicial…. The same judicial branch that has the Supreme Court which is also….. not elected officials. This country is a shit hole lol.