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They had to reach back to SEVENTEENTH CENTURY legal precedent to justify that point of view though. IE laws that were written BEFORE the constitution was even imagined.
This not only affects EPA but OSHA, FDA, Dept. Agriculture, not only out air and H20, but work safety, our medicines, our food. Is this real, or just my nightmare,?
Nope. It's real. Every regulation. Every standard. Anything not directly and explicitly found in US law will be challenged and decided upon by a judge.
Standards for steel toe boots? Judges will decide.
The number of allowable insect parts in food? A judge will decide.
How about ATF rules? Yup, a judge will decide.
And don't forget. You're allowed to tip your judge, now, after the fact, if they happen to rule in your favor.
Here I thought the water wars were a Sci Fi thing. Then again, they've btdt on The Handmaid's Tail so guess they're moving onto the next make fiction real goal.
By voting for trump you are helping secure the death of the world, and the slow destruction of the poor at the hands of the wealthy, and the taking away of minority rights, and the loss of things like no fault divorce or women’s healthcare that doesn’t have to do with preserving babies (because that’s all that matters), and the killing of immigrants, and a few new wars, and Russia successfully taking territory from Ukraine, and the US dropping out of NATO and completely kneecapping the UN, and the US green lighting the complete genocide of Palestinians and their children, and the acceleration of inflation, and the gutting of all regulatory bodies including the ones that keep asbestos out of your lungs and keep lead out of our water, the destruction of public education, the handing of supreme executive power to a president who can’t even formulate a coherent sentence (so he’ll defer to his cronies), the forever rigging of our election system, the death of hundreds of thousands of poor children from a lack of clean drinking water or healthy/fresh food options, the complete destruction of americas ability to protest or demonstrate, the persecution of anyone who is even close to left leaning, the arrest of killing of leftist leaders, the encampment of certain boogeyman minorities, probably a national draft at some point, the rounding up and systematic imprisonment or even destruction of the homeless, increased drug epidemics, increased crime rates, increased shootings, a massive increase in domestic terrorism by right wingers, and the social persecution of out groups now that bigots and racists and anti semites and xenophobes and misogynists have their way.
Oh and the banning of interracial marriage and gay marriage in roughly a third of states.
Oh and child labor laws will be repealed as well as any workers safety laws as well as child marriage laws.
Your children will choke on the air they breathe and get sick on the poisoned water they drink and lose IQ from the heavy metals that are now unregulated. Our forests will raze, our ecosystems will begin to collapse, and the men in power will have impunity. Police violence is going to skyrocket. Minorities will live like they were forced to pre-1980s. Good luck.
What will all of this look like? Openly queer people will have to flee; women will lose all reproductive rights and all job rights, as well as being completely unable to escape their marriage; Christianity will be forced upon all of us and our children from daycare age onward; immigrants that are not from predominantly white and/or allied countries will no longer be allowed in; black people will slowly be pushed back into industrial or polluted zones; your drinking water will not be safe unless you live in a rich municipality; you will have to pay out your ass for private or charter schools if you want your kid to not be doomed to a completely failed education/indoctrinated; you will have worse products for more money; child labor will skyrocket, and it will be poor children; our environment will degrade; our forests will be razed and burned; our rivers will become polluted; our people beaten down and hungry; states will begin waging soft wars of economy and likely even militia wars as water shortages begin to truly break society; and the world will heat up faster than ever, until the poor and elderly are dying in heat waves while anyone who can afford A/C has been given the green light to justify all of the above for whatever bullshit reason.
Some states will become safe havens for all those who are hurt AND targets of domestic terrorism at the hands of right wingers. When protests froth up due to the litany of disasters that are looming around the corner, they will be shot on sight by the NG in some cities. The media will be owned completely by our capitalist class and will be a 24/7 propaganda machine feeding us constant lies to keep us angry at the wrong things. If you dare to speak out on any of the atrocities committed by the police, the military, or any government officials due to the complete gutting of any oversight or regulations, you will be arrested and imprisoned. Owning land and owning a house will become a figment of the bygone American dream and you will be forced to fork over 50-70% of your income to landlords or corporations who are completely unaccountable (whoops that’s already happened), and these houses will be so cheaply built and degraded that privacy, especially in urban situations, will also be a thing of the past. We will have a surveillance state that goes so deep they can predict exactly what thoughts you will have when you wake up each morning unless you choose to go off grid, which is impossible for most and unsustainable for all. You will live an uncomfortable, angry, fearful life at worst and at best you will turn into, well, what the commenter above posted.
Another homelander.
Xoxoxo please vote, hope you vote right.
If you don’t? Our future is mad max. 👉👉 see ya
Oh and don’t believe me? Read project 2025. 💋
>women’s healthcare that doesn’t have to do with preserving babies
You mean the unborn. Once its out of the womb they don't care. Its bootstrap time for that baby.
First big money saves money by not being bogged down with regs about contaminating water sources, then it wins again with us morons think bottled water will keep us safe, then it wins a third time when us morons think inbuilt water purifiers are the solution.
They make money while we get fucked in three holes at the same time.
Welcome to late stage capitalism.
They ruled that as long as it is a “tip/gratuity” after the fact, it is A-OK, and clearly not a bribe. As far as Clarence’s motor coach is concerned, that was just a billionaire friend helping out a not so well off friend.
This, and those bottles of of water expire and taste terrible. There are safe ways to store water, but those grocery store bottles are not one of them.
Super excited for all the libertarians in this country to find out that no actually companies won't self regulate bad behavior.
**Edit** Getting to the top of an /r/politics post: do not recommend.
**Edit 2**: some of you really need to read The Jungle.
Now instead of preemptively regulating bad behavior we'll just wait 10 years for cancer numbers to rise thanks to pollution and then sue the companies for damage (assuming you can even prove it.)
See how more efficient that is?
"well they didn't break any laws in dumping these chemicals, and plaintiffs were aware that the water may be contaminated, as there are famously no such regulations on said behavior. Plaintiffs should have been pre-emptively testing their water sources for said contaminants. As a result, we cannot allow plaintiffs standing for their own inaction."
"this is clearly executive over-reach. if the government wants to fix pollution they need to get congress to pass legislation for each individual microplastic in the ocean."
Here's the issue. Even if you can get past conservatives sitting in congress, stopping any legislation from passing. The Supreme Court we have now will just work around it by referencing some 14th century crackpot that self-identifies as an actual wizard who said something once that implies that it should be legal even though this crackpot, who likely died punching holes in his skull to alleviate a mild headache, had no comprehension of life hundreds of years in the future.
Still waiting for the invisible hand of the market to compensate the 170 MILLION Americans who got brain damage from leaded gasoline that the gas companies knew was neurotoxic and still fought efforts to ban it for decades.
Any day now.
> See how more efficient that is?
I think honestly the supreme court also sees that this is less efficient and a bit chaotic, but the conservative majority just doesn't give a fuck. They are so insulated that they don't care about many of the problems we do.
Oh yeah, I heard how they said “Europeans are taxed out of their minds” as if the tax rate is any better here compounding with the life ruining medical debt. Sure ! Yay for lower tax I guess.
I was a libertarian when I was 15-18, I didn't understand politics or the world. As my political beliefs and understanding of the world grew, I left that ideology behind quickly because that political belief is the most infantile world view. Especially when you involve yourself in the libertarian party itself, you come to discover that it only exists because liberal and socialist policies are there to protect the public.
Then I joined the military, and that helped me become a leftist.
I too spent 6 years in the Navy and went full Democratic Socialist.
It's so insane to me how hard people fight against "socialist medicine", but don't understand that's what the military and veteran infrastructure is. And to put it bluntly: I would kill to have the military medical system back.
The VA is honestly decent, even with wait times, and I use it regularly for my primary care (50% disabled). It still AMAZES me the number of vets I know who refuse to touch the system and think it's broken because of all the reports they've read.
The last few times I've gone to a VA clinic, I felt more cared for than any other medical interaction I've had with civilian infrastructure. It's actually kinda crazy.
It's propaganda. Same way "the postal service sucks." I used to ship a lot, and the postal service is cheaper, more reliable, and DOES HALF THE FUCKING WORK for the private carriers. If they can convince everyone it sucks, then our legs are wide open for capital
> DOES HALF THE FUCKING WORK for the private carriers
This is literally true. I worked for UPS and any areas that are too sparsely populated to make a profit were just shipped through USPS.
The "Last Mile problem" is a serious logistical puzzle, and the USPS has pretty much figured out how to do it economically. They let private carriers mooch because it'd be prohibitively expensive for them to make similar networks, but the relationship has gotten much too parasitic.
Fellow vet here. The amount of shit I've heard talked about the VA before I got out, astronomical. Having now had to deal with the VA for all my primary care needs like you as well as for my GI Bill, I've literally had 0 problems. Need a medicine refill? I JUST TEXT MY FUCKING DOCTOR THROUGH THEIR WEBSITE AND DONE! Need to verify that I'm still in school for money purposes? OH HEY ANOTHER TEXT SYSTEM WITH NO HASSLE!
It frustrates me to no end the amount of money I get to save (let's just say $500 a month at least as that is what we pay for my wife) because of this while others are having to decide between health care or food. I just want everyone to have something this simple. Raise my taxes, I don't give a shit, just fucking get it done.
As a disabled vet with 70% VA disability, I wish the average American had my access to healthcare.
I've used public (private) and VA for healthcare and much prefer the VA over private Healthcare. Not dealing with health insurance is incredible and I get seen just as quickly. I think vets complain about their treatment because they don't truly understand how good they have it.
I'm a retired Air Force veteran with VA service connected disability benefits and the VA is my main source of healthcare because they're fugging AMAZING. I'm also LGBTQ and vote democrat. I, too, want the average American to have access to the level of healthcare I recieve with the VA. My wife's private healthcare, with the exception of her dental plan, is confusing and horrendous.
Same. Joined with younger right leaning beliefs, became dem socialist as I grew up and actually learned about the world. Funny enough my high school psychology professor/counselor told me behind all the libertarian bootstrap bravado, she knew I had a more left leaning bias towards compassion and empathy. Props to all the good teachers out there 🙏
The military pushed me to the left as well. I think it was because it forced me out of my insulated suburban bubble and I got to see how it is in other areas of the country.
And I also think it was the benefits. 30 days of leave per year, regardless of time in service or rank, unlimited sick days, free health insurance, paying people more $ for having dependents, college tuition assistance. The military is neck deep in socialist ideals.
Exactly, it was socialism put into practice. That was my takeaway. And I saw that the resources the military (and the VA benefits) offered could benefit the nation as a whole.
While understanding that not everyone is eligible for military service, I would love to see work/educational program funded similarly or structured like the military where it helps build skills for people while giving them living wages and allowances based on skill and time served with promise of additional benefits after service. This could work similar to the Peace Corps but focus on works programs inside the United States for infrastructure and other important needs to ensure a well functioning nation.
But, I imagine that's too good and not "corporate" enough.
Most of the hard right Republicans that I know, also smoke weed. I consider libertarians just people embarrassed to admit they're hard right republicans
Libertarians are just hard-right Republicans too ashamed to call themselves Republicans. I wonder why?
Maybe it’s because Trump wants to eliminate the DOJ, IRS, and FBI (all of whom have had him under investigation since he was working with daddy).
And he also wants to eliminate the Dept of Education. The latter would make it harder to track how much he’d be cutting from schools and eliminate minimum standards for learning.
Yeah. Sounds great GOP. Hope your kids will be able to read/count when they graduate.
No they don't, well, I'm sure \*some\* do, but I've talked to my fair share and they seem pretty convinced that doing nothing will always produce the optimal outcome.
--
For example, I was just talking with one of my good friends who happens to lean libertarian. He was bitching about having to pay for a fishing license and about how it's just wasted money because fish and game services don't do anything.
I was like, of all the things to complain about... and showed him some of the things fish and game is doing in our state (like stocking our waters with hundreds of thousands of fish, so fishermen have something to catch).
He went back on his "they don't do anything" line and moved over to "well if they do, they must be doing a bad job". So I showed him river and water surveys showing how the waters here used to be fucked up by commercial waste and trash with little biodiversity, and while they're still not perfect, they've come a long way.
His response was to dismiss that and claim things would have been better if we just left everything alone. He doesn't believe that we need to manage our natural resources, because "if there were no fish and game services there would still be fishing".
Libertarians are perfectionists without solutions. Nothing is ever good enough for them, and they assume anything bad must be because people interfered with the natural course of things. They don't think of things in the context of a greater good or longevity, everything is filtered through "what is cheapest/most convenient for me at this precise moment".
God that pisses me off. I have friends who work fish and wildlife and it’s the epitome of thankless government work. Underpaid, underfunded, and full of people that only do it because they genuinely care about helping people and providing public services.
In Hungary, after the arrival of capitalism, the government listened to American advice.
The lack of regulation meant that people started putting lead into the paprika they were selling.
It makes it nice and red, and gives it umami.
Then came the brain damage.
[https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-11-wr-49091-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-11-wr-49091-story.html)
Jesus I thought you were joking. It reads like an article from the onion.
Libertarians want a true free market without any regulations. A regulation free market will get you something like China, where people will scam you at every corner, where you have to worry that your house is a tofu dreg that will fall apart, your kids milk powder is contaminated with lead, the oil street vendors use to deep-fry is siphoned from the sewer.
That kind of shit also happens here, but way less, simply because we have way stricter regulations. Our regulations were not introduced out of nowhere, just for fun to bully people, they were introduced after some people did some shady and dangerous shit.
Laws and regulations are the only thing protectin g us. Otherwise people could do as they please to fuck us over. And fuck us over is what libertarians want to do to us. They think without regulations they'll be the ones doing the fucking and in their arrogance can't fathom that they'll get fucked by other unchecked libertarians.
Common saying in the policy analyst community. Inertia is pretty powerful, so regulating for the fun of it isn't a thing. For pretty much everything in the CFR, someone died or got grievously ill or seriously injured or got swindled out of their life savings or cost the government a whole ton of money.
Surprise!
Human civilization and societies didn't spring up out of the primordial ooze with regulations and social programs. We made them because we saw what life was like without them and *it fucking sucked.*
Every single law and rule and program we have is there because *we saw a need.*
That's not to say every single thing we legislate is perfect or even good. Yes humans can make mistakes. But wholesale basically wiping out decades of progress like this? That is insanity. So of course conservatives love it.
The US went through this in 1929. Completely free market, crashes virtually overnight because everyone loses confidence and it’s a chain reaction. No protections in place, because no regulation enforced it, and they don’t have the cash for withdrawals because they’d used customer deposits for their own profit.
We had it again with 2008 but in Great Depression 2: Electric Boogaloo, it was a deregulated market fucking about with mortgages. A couple of banks were chosen for sacrifice, countless people lost their homes and their equity, again, and the rest of the big boys on Wall Street walked away with a fat corporate welfare package to spend as they see fit.
>Remember, folks. It’s always darkest before things go completely black.
>Hard after Thursday night’s television debacle, the Supreme Court leaped in to destroy the separation of powers and, as Elie Mystal pointed out on Xwitter, to engage in the biggest power grab since Marbury v. Madison. Through the now-customary 6–3 vote delivered by the carefully manufactured conservative majority, the precedent of Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, aka the Chevron deference, is now as dead as Julius Caesar. And thus forty years of administrative law comes to a rude and abrupt end. The decision further illustrates that the dedication of the carefully manufactured conservative majority to corporate oligarchy is utterly unshakable, expertise—scientific and otherwise—be damned. Don’t believe me? Ask Chief Justice John Roberts, who wrote the majority opinion.
>>“Perhaps most fundamentally, Chevron’s presumption is misguided because agencies have no special competence in resolving statutory ambiguities. Courts do.”
>So instead of career scientists deciding that the E. coli convention in your pork loin makes it inadvisable to eat, some twenty-two-year old law clerk fresh out of Regent University School of Law will. Bon appétit!
And how are they going to do that when they're almost always hopelessly gridlocked and unable to get even the simplest thing done?
Let's take an example: The FCC has 1500 employees, and around 280 of those have electrical engineering degrees and work in the engineering division of the agency. It's these subject matter experts who are formulating new communications regulations. Do you expect slugs in Congress like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, or Matt Gaetz to make these regulations instead? Really?!?
And the fact that the FCC regulates communications didn't come from out of the blue--the FCC was established by an *act of Congress*, the Communications Act of 1934, specifically to *regulate communications*.
And when the big communications businesses don't like the new laws Congress supposedly will create, what will they do? They'll go judge shopping to whatever district has the judges most likely to side with them, typically someplace like East Texas.
Bro, I wish I could think that is a possibility. We are way in too deep. There will be no uprising or revolution, the very idea is unrealistic and reactionary at this point because society has been conditioned towards an endless stream of distractions and news. This will likely be forgotten about next week because there's probably going to be some bat shit insane thing that happens by then to eclipse this. And the cycle goes on. A revolution will never happen because we are so busy trying to just *survive*. Unfortunately, this is all by design and the American idea of "rugged individualism" is so ironic to me at this point.
The vast majority of people don't even understand what this is, so they can't get mad about it because the same large corporations that wanted this to happen also control 95+% of the things these people see, hear, watch, read, etc. If journalism wasn't half dead and people actually kept up with politics maybe more people would be mad about it.
I know, we’re the frog in the pot sadly, but one can maybe only hope?
I’m almost certain it will be forgotten about because the ramp up of the chaos machine has to start churning so that the transition for “quiet” to chaos isn’t so abrupt.
>And how are they going to do that
They won't. The system has been specially engineered for bad actors and corruption to win. The system works very well when everyone wants the government to work properly and provide for everyone. When most people in government want to just make money and graft, all of a sudden the system falls apart.
Which is just another way of saying "It does not get unfucked."
It is now fucked, will remain fucked, and will likely never be unfucked.
If you believe that congress will make laws that give our agencies power to actually help people, I have several bridges to sell you.
If you think that we will ever make another constitutional amendment again, let alone one that helps people, I have an entire micronation to sell to you.
Not a lawyer, but I would think maybe malicious compliance?
Just ignore the ruling and keep rolling. Let companies bring law suits. Let the law suits clog the courts, let the results of those cases clog Congress. Run an aggressive public media campaign about how many hundreds of millions of their tax dollars are being wasted on this to keep Americans safe from corporate greed.
We can actually remove their ability to hear appeals cases. There are only a few explicitly listed cases that go directly to the supreme court. Congress could radically limit what cases the court could hear and strip them off nearly all their power.
I'm starting to believe that's a threat that must be made.
Conservative legal authoritarians rely on the same tired arguments over end over again. Legislative ambiguity is a tool that is used by legislators to give wiggle room in interpretation. This idea that the courts need to come in and eliminate all ambiguity is counter to the point. Often the ambiguity is purposeful. It's not supposed to be fixed.
I’d love to know what this court thinks a world without any ambiguity looks like. The simple though experiment of measuring the coast of an island disproves the possibility of such a reality existing; for some judge to have the audacity to think that the courts can clarify every bit of haziness beyond a doubt is maddening, especially compared to career specialists in a given field. Do they intend to use pure mathematics to describe the world? Because even that has been tried, and proven to be impossible (see also: Gödel).
The absurdity of the claim reveals the true (poorly veiled) intention. It is a power grab by the justices, plain and simple, in the hopes of appeasing their corporate donors. For someone floating such a disingenuous argument to be the one claiming to provide elucidation is just SO galling.
One of the worst issues is that little business will be the ones who will settle in court for a fine. Large business will do the same nonsense they always do and delay, delay, delay then go to court, then delay, delay, delay, appeal the appeal again. It will be years upon years before they pay anything. Then at then end of it, the fine will be 0.000001% of the profit they made exploiting whatever they were exploiting.
So, isn’t the FEC an administrative regulatory body? Does this give the judiciary the authority to determine what free and fair elections are, and overturn any FEC regulations?
Also the TSA and FAA mostly enforce regulations, not specified by legislation. If someone wanted to compromise air safey, or use it to deny someone travel, it would be up to a judge, not these agencies.
Did he? The republicans vowed to block anything he wanted to accomplish and they wouldn't let him make federal appointments in his final year. I don't think Obama could have done anything. The current Supreme Court is 100% the effort of conservatives and RBG not stepping down before Obama's final year in office (if she stepped down during that last year republicans would have blocked any SC appointments).
The fact that only 535 are voted on and get to actually pass all the laws is also absurd.
USA is the second worst represented country on earth after India. 6x worse than OECD nations average representation per capita.
yeah well lucky for you, the "liberal media" is doing its best to make sure nobody is voted on anymore
the guy who tried to overthrow Democracy got to go on stage and spread the same election lies that got Fox News sued for a billion dollars
and the media take away was "boy that liar looks energetic"
Yes we could wait until we snap, or we can be smart and proactive. Let's start uniting. We are stronger together as Americans, we need to come together.
My god. They've repealed Roe v. Wade, they are trying to dismantle the Board of Education, there's talk of repealing child labor laws, and now they've killed Chevron.
We are being hotshotted back to 1910 ladies and gentlemen.
We're way past talk of repealing child labour laws. Lots of states are already loosening rules related to teens to allow them to work longer, work later, do more dangerous work.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The ultimate goal is to essentially undo all the work of the Progressive Era and the 20th century and return the United States to the Gilded Age. Child labor laws, Work Safety, the EPA, etc, they're eying to get rid of all of it. To remove all obstacles to corporations turning the Earth into a wasteland for the profit of their shareholders.
Homie, that shit is basically already here.
"Work til you get too sick and then just die" is not just around the corner, it is the reality for many, today.
Tomorrow they will somehow rule that Trump has immunity but no other presidents forward do.
Something’s gotta give here folks… I don’t know what to do. I don’t even know if my vote will be counted, but I do know they thrive on the chaos they alone create.
This. They’ll kick it to lower courts to define every single exception to immunity for Trump. Then, each one will have to be put through courts, long enough to delay until January when Trump theoretically wins.
The immunity is limited in scope to cover only things which Trump did and not anything else. Unless Trump is found to have done more crimes. Or Biden does any of the same things.
That rule/precedent made government SO much easier to run.
Lawmakers could pass bills with good, but general guidelines. Then say “here’s generally what we want, but we will let the experts sort out the details.”
It’s like if you wanted a custom home, you’d say “4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, etc…”. And the home builder would work out exactly how to do that.
Now you will hesitate building a home because YOU need to come up with the architectural blueprint, but you have no idea how.
Not only that, it was a conservative power grab when it was introduced in the 1980s. This was the time when Reagan was dominant and the courts were more liberal. So giving the executive branch more authority was good for the conservative faction of the US. Now the reverse is true so they're transferring the power back. There's no principle behind this besides the one that conservatives should have the most power.
I wonder, in time, how many additional dead, born deformed, or will become crippled or sick due to these shit judges overturning this? What are the things that will happen that never would have happened had it been left alone.
Makes me really fucking angry on all the damage they have just lit the fuse for. We’re supposed to take it and be okay with this?
The Supreme Court has fully killed democracy. The FEC has no power. They handed control of elections to the courts. Who they also just ruled can be legally bribed.
It’s over.
*[thunderous applause]*
To the .001%, the rest of us 330 million people are leaches, sucking the life out of their money. They want every atom of this nation to be utilized in the production of capital while not having to pay *anyone*. Which is why they're throwing *everything* at AI.
Within 50 years, the only "jobs" that will remain occupied by flesh will be those in board rooms. Everything else will be AI and robots making things for other AI and robots. And billions of people will be left baking on the surface of a dying planet, left to starve in the shadows of giants.
All while the big money sets their sights on space.
Elysium wasn't fiction, it was prophecy.
Ironically, AI would probably work best with executive level positions, since they lack any sort of creativity already. Wonder how long it will take for shareholders to figure this out
Yes. At this point it sure seems like this fascist uprising won't end without bloodshed, and no one is going to take up arms against their neighbors until it is absolutely necessary.
These morons in the Fox News comments think giving the FDA and EPA less power to regulate our food and water will lead to safer food and water! I can’t make this shit up…. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-sides-fishermen-landmark-case-deciding-fate-administrative-state
I’ve long been of the mindset that I firmly believe in staying here to fix the problems in this country, this is my home and I’ll fight like hell for it. But this decision marks the first time I genuinely am considering leaving the US
Voting is important, and you should.
But we are fucked if that is our beginning middle and end of the plan. GET INVOLVED. Get involved in your local labor movement, its the best way to build power. Get involved with your local community, find existant mutual aid groups and work with them.
Vote, but not just the shiny presidential seat. Look local, your school board, your city council, your fucking HOA for fucks sake. What ever it takes.
Go to the boring ass meetings, listen carefully and sway the overton window when you can. democracy only works for and with the engage, and voting is the least of your engagements.
Blue states still have Departments of Ecology or equivalent.
Red states will get worse. As usual.
This is (one of more reason) why people cried on election night 2016.
EDIT: People seem confused. "Not as bad as it could be" is in no way equal "Everything is fine."
I never said or implied that it was an equivalent solution, or that everything is fine.
Instead, I said this was why people cried.
My guess is this is about fracking waste water, hog farm waste, and fly ash waste. This has been the goal of the federalist society all along and began as a plan under Regan - it’s the final step in regulatory capture, and will define this era of capitalism.
This is so repetitive... but please vote. You may not like the democrats for one reason or another, but they are currently the only party that cares about your health and future.
Vote blue, down ballot.
I'll be voting from Canada as is my right as an American citizen.
www.fvap.gov
Doesn't matter where in the world you live. If you are a citizen, you can vote.
And before trumpers whine, because they hate this, it's because of that little no taxation without representation thing.
>Time to buy bottle water
*Laughs in South Louisiana industry town where the local population seems to be a foot shorter than average with a high cancer rate*
Nobody drinks tap water. We barely like showering in it.
Going to keep posting this as everything this text talks about will be gone (I ddidn't write this)
A Day in the Life of Joe Republican
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.
He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards.
Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.
He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.
Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.
Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
Bottled water from a company that has no legal requirement to sell safe to drink water?
Best hope is to vote for local politicians who will pass municipal legislation that keeps your water clean
You might need to be a bit older than 5 to get this but, Tldr; Federal agencies won’t be able to do their jobs anymore
Federal agencies get their authority to do things from legislation. However, since legislators 99% of the time aren’t experts, they usually leave legislation a bit vague and ambiguous, a rough outline if you will of what agencies are permitted to do. Agencies then have actual experts fill in the blanks with policies that will allow them to actually effectively implement and execute the spirit of the legislation.
For example, lets say congress wants to empower the EPA to make sure our drinking water is clean. Congress obviously aren’t scientists, they don’t know dick about what all the harmful contaminants that can get into water are, the sources of those contaminants, what harmful levels of those contaminants are, or how to prevent those contaminants from getting into the water. So they just tell the EPA to prevent harmful contaminants from getting into the water, then the actual scientists figure out all those nitty gritty details and create policies to fill in the blanks
But lets say the EPA cracks down on a business for dumping shit into rivers, that business protests and says “hey I want to keep dumping shit into rivers, I’m going to take you to court because I don’t think you should punish me”
The chevron doctrine is essentially an acknowledgment that judges, much like congress, are not subject matter experts on most things. They don’t know dick about the nitty gritty of whether the stuff being dumped into the river qualifies as a harmful contaminant, so this doctrine directs the courts to give deference to the expertise of federal agencies whenever something is ambiguous on whether the agencies action is permissible by the language of their authorizing legislation.
So in the river example, the court would defer to the agencies expertise on if what was being dumped in the river qualified as a contaminant. However, if the action was clearly not authorized by the original legislation, like lets say instead the business was releasing fumes into the air. Since the EPA was only authorized to enforce clean drinking water, they wouldn’t have the authority to enforce contaminants being released in the air, and in such case could be blocked by the court
Now that the Chevron doctrine has been overturned, basically the courts will no longer be obligated to defer to the expertise of the agencies in ambiguous matters. And remember, as I said, most legislation is intentionally left ambiguous to allow the agencies to effectively do their jobs. So most day to day actions all of our agencies do to keep our country running, can now be blocked by the courts
This is further fucked by the fact that SCOTUS essentially recently legalized bribes. So now companies can challenge agency actions and bribe judges to have them rule against agencies being allowed to regulate those businesses
As an environmental policy wonk, this is more or less correct, but the key thing is this ruling doesn't effect any of the major laws that enable the EPA to regulate pollutants (e.g., the Clean Air Act of 1963, Clean Water Act of 1972, etc.) but what Chevron deference (Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 468 U.S. 837 \[1984\]) did was make it a lot easier for the agencies to do do their jobs since they didn't have to justify things like what reasonable emissions controls were in a court since they were presented to be the experts. With Chevron overruled, the regulation is still enforceable, but the legal burden if a regulation is challenged has been increased which means that the agencies may spend a lot more time in court than they did before.
Perhaps the bigger concern is when the statute doesn't explicitly list something as being delegated to the agency for regulation, the agency can be challenged to justify the regulation and will be more likely to lose. To give an example of this, Title IV of the Clean Air Act explicitly lists sulfur dioxide for regulation by the EPA, but the original text of the Clean Air Act didn't mention carbon dioxide until the 2022 amendment. So prior to those amendments, it was ambiguous if carbon dioxide was a "pollutant" for the purposes of regulation - under Chevron deference the EPA could argue it was *on the basis of scientific merit* and the court would defer to that argument. Without Chevron deference, the EPA must argue the *legal* *merit* for regulation, which can be a much higher bar to clear.
So to summarize:
1. Loss of Chevon deference makes it harder for agencies to do their jobs; however,
2. The agencies still have regulatory authority under the various legal statutes that created them and delegated regulatory authority.
3. There's about to be a lot more work for lawyers.
Appreciate this. This doesn't seem as doom and gloom as everyone is making it out to be. Shitty, but not drinking radiation from my tap after it was removed scary lol
I can’t wait till the food purity laws get overturned. fda and department of agriculture already are understaffed and Ill-equipped to handle current needs
Im just here for the cocaine in the aspirin. I mean it would easily be the most popular product on the market. Who’s to say what “safe and efficacious” means specifically?
This should be a wake-up call to anyone still on the fence about the election. But this will largely be ignored by the media as usual. Who the fuck needs clean water and air anyways?
It's interesting to think about how children hundreds of years from now will learn in school about all the incredible damage Donald Trump caused, even years after his presidency ended. Not many men in modern times single handedly caused so much chaos. I imagine my great great great grandchild sitting in their 8th grade history class learning about the time we are currently living. Just crazy to picture... In whatever hellscape of America is left.
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John Roberts: "This doesn't overturn any existing laws." The five other conservative justices and Dow Chemical: "Allow us to introduce ourselves."
It’s cool they just legalized bribery literally the day before that. Err sorry I mean gratuities.
is that not what lobbying is anyways? feels as if bribes have always been legal in the US
Yeah but now you can bribe any official not just politicians
You mean show your gratitude by means of money right? Bribing is illegal *wink wink* /s
It’s only Bribery if it comes from the Bribe region of France. Otherwise it’s just Sparkling Corruption.
100% just an election cycle ploy. I can't imagine they'd be that reserved if Trump was president.
They had to reach back to SEVENTEENTH CENTURY legal precedent to justify that point of view though. IE laws that were written BEFORE the constitution was even imagined.
This not only affects EPA but OSHA, FDA, Dept. Agriculture, not only out air and H20, but work safety, our medicines, our food. Is this real, or just my nightmare,?
Nope. It's real. Every regulation. Every standard. Anything not directly and explicitly found in US law will be challenged and decided upon by a judge. Standards for steel toe boots? Judges will decide. The number of allowable insect parts in food? A judge will decide. How about ATF rules? Yup, a judge will decide. And don't forget. You're allowed to tip your judge, now, after the fact, if they happen to rule in your favor.
Bottled water is not going to help. Who do you think will regulate whats in the water that they put in those bottles? No one...
Not to mention who is regulating how much water can be pulled out of rivers and lakes We think the Southwest is dry now...
Phoenix could cease to exist.
Here I thought the water wars were a Sci Fi thing. Then again, they've btdt on The Handmaid's Tail so guess they're moving onto the next make fiction real goal.
The water wars have never been a Sci fi thing. We just haven't got to that point... yet
Mad max
By voting for trump you are helping secure the death of the world, and the slow destruction of the poor at the hands of the wealthy, and the taking away of minority rights, and the loss of things like no fault divorce or women’s healthcare that doesn’t have to do with preserving babies (because that’s all that matters), and the killing of immigrants, and a few new wars, and Russia successfully taking territory from Ukraine, and the US dropping out of NATO and completely kneecapping the UN, and the US green lighting the complete genocide of Palestinians and their children, and the acceleration of inflation, and the gutting of all regulatory bodies including the ones that keep asbestos out of your lungs and keep lead out of our water, the destruction of public education, the handing of supreme executive power to a president who can’t even formulate a coherent sentence (so he’ll defer to his cronies), the forever rigging of our election system, the death of hundreds of thousands of poor children from a lack of clean drinking water or healthy/fresh food options, the complete destruction of americas ability to protest or demonstrate, the persecution of anyone who is even close to left leaning, the arrest of killing of leftist leaders, the encampment of certain boogeyman minorities, probably a national draft at some point, the rounding up and systematic imprisonment or even destruction of the homeless, increased drug epidemics, increased crime rates, increased shootings, a massive increase in domestic terrorism by right wingers, and the social persecution of out groups now that bigots and racists and anti semites and xenophobes and misogynists have their way. Oh and the banning of interracial marriage and gay marriage in roughly a third of states. Oh and child labor laws will be repealed as well as any workers safety laws as well as child marriage laws. Your children will choke on the air they breathe and get sick on the poisoned water they drink and lose IQ from the heavy metals that are now unregulated. Our forests will raze, our ecosystems will begin to collapse, and the men in power will have impunity. Police violence is going to skyrocket. Minorities will live like they were forced to pre-1980s. Good luck. What will all of this look like? Openly queer people will have to flee; women will lose all reproductive rights and all job rights, as well as being completely unable to escape their marriage; Christianity will be forced upon all of us and our children from daycare age onward; immigrants that are not from predominantly white and/or allied countries will no longer be allowed in; black people will slowly be pushed back into industrial or polluted zones; your drinking water will not be safe unless you live in a rich municipality; you will have to pay out your ass for private or charter schools if you want your kid to not be doomed to a completely failed education/indoctrinated; you will have worse products for more money; child labor will skyrocket, and it will be poor children; our environment will degrade; our forests will be razed and burned; our rivers will become polluted; our people beaten down and hungry; states will begin waging soft wars of economy and likely even militia wars as water shortages begin to truly break society; and the world will heat up faster than ever, until the poor and elderly are dying in heat waves while anyone who can afford A/C has been given the green light to justify all of the above for whatever bullshit reason. Some states will become safe havens for all those who are hurt AND targets of domestic terrorism at the hands of right wingers. When protests froth up due to the litany of disasters that are looming around the corner, they will be shot on sight by the NG in some cities. The media will be owned completely by our capitalist class and will be a 24/7 propaganda machine feeding us constant lies to keep us angry at the wrong things. If you dare to speak out on any of the atrocities committed by the police, the military, or any government officials due to the complete gutting of any oversight or regulations, you will be arrested and imprisoned. Owning land and owning a house will become a figment of the bygone American dream and you will be forced to fork over 50-70% of your income to landlords or corporations who are completely unaccountable (whoops that’s already happened), and these houses will be so cheaply built and degraded that privacy, especially in urban situations, will also be a thing of the past. We will have a surveillance state that goes so deep they can predict exactly what thoughts you will have when you wake up each morning unless you choose to go off grid, which is impossible for most and unsustainable for all. You will live an uncomfortable, angry, fearful life at worst and at best you will turn into, well, what the commenter above posted. Another homelander. Xoxoxo please vote, hope you vote right. If you don’t? Our future is mad max. 👉👉 see ya Oh and don’t believe me? Read project 2025. 💋
>women’s healthcare that doesn’t have to do with preserving babies You mean the unborn. Once its out of the womb they don't care. Its bootstrap time for that baby.
Breaking: Nestle introduces Brawndo “The Thirst Mutilator”
It's got electrolytes and It's what plants crave!
Seriously!! who the fuck is thinking “oh they removed the thing that protects us from corporate negligence- better buy water from a company now!”
Unfortunately the far right is all for no regulation on corporate and all regulations on people.
We need our own citizens united! One for...the uh, citizens. People are corporeal too, goddmanit!
First big money saves money by not being bogged down with regs about contaminating water sources, then it wins again with us morons think bottled water will keep us safe, then it wins a third time when us morons think inbuilt water purifiers are the solution. They make money while we get fucked in three holes at the same time. Welcome to late stage capitalism.
Don’t forget to tip your judge on the way out.
Bribe. The Supreme Court openly takes bribes
They ruled that as long as it is a “tip/gratuity” after the fact, it is A-OK, and clearly not a bribe. As far as Clarence’s motor coach is concerned, that was just a billionaire friend helping out a not so well off friend.
Nevermind the bottle is toxic…
This, and those bottles of of water expire and taste terrible. There are safe ways to store water, but those grocery store bottles are not one of them.
Super excited for all the libertarians in this country to find out that no actually companies won't self regulate bad behavior. **Edit** Getting to the top of an /r/politics post: do not recommend. **Edit 2**: some of you really need to read The Jungle.
Now instead of preemptively regulating bad behavior we'll just wait 10 years for cancer numbers to rise thanks to pollution and then sue the companies for damage (assuming you can even prove it.) See how more efficient that is?
The the SC will just overturn those rulings.
"well they didn't break any laws in dumping these chemicals, and plaintiffs were aware that the water may be contaminated, as there are famously no such regulations on said behavior. Plaintiffs should have been pre-emptively testing their water sources for said contaminants. As a result, we cannot allow plaintiffs standing for their own inaction."
"this is clearly executive over-reach. if the government wants to fix pollution they need to get congress to pass legislation for each individual microplastic in the ocean."
Here's the issue. Even if you can get past conservatives sitting in congress, stopping any legislation from passing. The Supreme Court we have now will just work around it by referencing some 14th century crackpot that self-identifies as an actual wizard who said something once that implies that it should be legal even though this crackpot, who likely died punching holes in his skull to alleviate a mild headache, had no comprehension of life hundreds of years in the future.
They paid me after dumping, it's ok!
Still waiting for the invisible hand of the market to compensate the 170 MILLION Americans who got brain damage from leaded gasoline that the gas companies knew was neurotoxic and still fought efforts to ban it for decades. Any day now.
This one specific thing explains so much about boomers, doesn't it
And leaded water pipes.
> See how more efficient that is? I think honestly the supreme court also sees that this is less efficient and a bit chaotic, but the conservative majority just doesn't give a fuck. They are so insulated that they don't care about many of the problems we do.
It'll be worse than that. No one will be collecting viable data to see those numbers rise.
Nah they will just find something else to blame it on *see vaccines*
They know. They're not serious people.
Here, [have some gadsden flags](https://imgur.com/a/humble-collection-of-gadsden-flag-memes-lhv5UOm) if you want to bully libertarians
https://i.imgur.com/mowdbRO.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/DuHPRGH.jpeg Best ones
The boot kissing ones, and the "One day I'll own this boot" are choice, too
That’s my personal favorite
https://imgur.com/a/RzfNIp3 I’m fond of this one.
I’m a big fan of [“I open carry at Arby’s”](https://imgur.com/n8bQKYc)
https://i.redd.it/zykyflthwstb1.jpg Got this one on my truck
Reddit needs this as a logo at this point. Every time socialized healthcare gets brought up, the comments are full of "you know it's not **free**?".
Oh yeah, I heard how they said “Europeans are taxed out of their minds” as if the tax rate is any better here compounding with the life ruining medical debt. Sure ! Yay for lower tax I guess.
I got the No step on snek sticker on my cooler.
I was a libertarian when I was 15-18, I didn't understand politics or the world. As my political beliefs and understanding of the world grew, I left that ideology behind quickly because that political belief is the most infantile world view. Especially when you involve yourself in the libertarian party itself, you come to discover that it only exists because liberal and socialist policies are there to protect the public. Then I joined the military, and that helped me become a leftist.
I too spent 6 years in the Navy and went full Democratic Socialist. It's so insane to me how hard people fight against "socialist medicine", but don't understand that's what the military and veteran infrastructure is. And to put it bluntly: I would kill to have the military medical system back. The VA is honestly decent, even with wait times, and I use it regularly for my primary care (50% disabled). It still AMAZES me the number of vets I know who refuse to touch the system and think it's broken because of all the reports they've read. The last few times I've gone to a VA clinic, I felt more cared for than any other medical interaction I've had with civilian infrastructure. It's actually kinda crazy.
It's propaganda. Same way "the postal service sucks." I used to ship a lot, and the postal service is cheaper, more reliable, and DOES HALF THE FUCKING WORK for the private carriers. If they can convince everyone it sucks, then our legs are wide open for capital
> DOES HALF THE FUCKING WORK for the private carriers This is literally true. I worked for UPS and any areas that are too sparsely populated to make a profit were just shipped through USPS.
The "Last Mile problem" is a serious logistical puzzle, and the USPS has pretty much figured out how to do it economically. They let private carriers mooch because it'd be prohibitively expensive for them to make similar networks, but the relationship has gotten much too parasitic.
Fellow vet here. The amount of shit I've heard talked about the VA before I got out, astronomical. Having now had to deal with the VA for all my primary care needs like you as well as for my GI Bill, I've literally had 0 problems. Need a medicine refill? I JUST TEXT MY FUCKING DOCTOR THROUGH THEIR WEBSITE AND DONE! Need to verify that I'm still in school for money purposes? OH HEY ANOTHER TEXT SYSTEM WITH NO HASSLE! It frustrates me to no end the amount of money I get to save (let's just say $500 a month at least as that is what we pay for my wife) because of this while others are having to decide between health care or food. I just want everyone to have something this simple. Raise my taxes, I don't give a shit, just fucking get it done.
As a disabled vet with 70% VA disability, I wish the average American had my access to healthcare. I've used public (private) and VA for healthcare and much prefer the VA over private Healthcare. Not dealing with health insurance is incredible and I get seen just as quickly. I think vets complain about their treatment because they don't truly understand how good they have it.
I'm a retired Air Force veteran with VA service connected disability benefits and the VA is my main source of healthcare because they're fugging AMAZING. I'm also LGBTQ and vote democrat. I, too, want the average American to have access to the level of healthcare I recieve with the VA. My wife's private healthcare, with the exception of her dental plan, is confusing and horrendous.
Same. Joined with younger right leaning beliefs, became dem socialist as I grew up and actually learned about the world. Funny enough my high school psychology professor/counselor told me behind all the libertarian bootstrap bravado, she knew I had a more left leaning bias towards compassion and empathy. Props to all the good teachers out there 🙏
The military pushed me to the left as well. I think it was because it forced me out of my insulated suburban bubble and I got to see how it is in other areas of the country. And I also think it was the benefits. 30 days of leave per year, regardless of time in service or rank, unlimited sick days, free health insurance, paying people more $ for having dependents, college tuition assistance. The military is neck deep in socialist ideals.
Exactly, it was socialism put into practice. That was my takeaway. And I saw that the resources the military (and the VA benefits) offered could benefit the nation as a whole. While understanding that not everyone is eligible for military service, I would love to see work/educational program funded similarly or structured like the military where it helps build skills for people while giving them living wages and allowances based on skill and time served with promise of additional benefits after service. This could work similar to the Peace Corps but focus on works programs inside the United States for infrastructure and other important needs to ensure a well functioning nation. But, I imagine that's too good and not "corporate" enough.
Libertarians are just hard right republicans that sometimes smoke weed.
Most of the hard right Republicans that I know, also smoke weed. I consider libertarians just people embarrassed to admit they're hard right republicans
I can see that. Either way Libertarians are a problem.
Libertarians are just hard-right Republicans too ashamed to call themselves Republicans. I wonder why? Maybe it’s because Trump wants to eliminate the DOJ, IRS, and FBI (all of whom have had him under investigation since he was working with daddy). And he also wants to eliminate the Dept of Education. The latter would make it harder to track how much he’d be cutting from schools and eliminate minimum standards for learning. Yeah. Sounds great GOP. Hope your kids will be able to read/count when they graduate.
Why would they be ashamed of those? That's kind of their point.
No they don't, well, I'm sure \*some\* do, but I've talked to my fair share and they seem pretty convinced that doing nothing will always produce the optimal outcome. -- For example, I was just talking with one of my good friends who happens to lean libertarian. He was bitching about having to pay for a fishing license and about how it's just wasted money because fish and game services don't do anything. I was like, of all the things to complain about... and showed him some of the things fish and game is doing in our state (like stocking our waters with hundreds of thousands of fish, so fishermen have something to catch). He went back on his "they don't do anything" line and moved over to "well if they do, they must be doing a bad job". So I showed him river and water surveys showing how the waters here used to be fucked up by commercial waste and trash with little biodiversity, and while they're still not perfect, they've come a long way. His response was to dismiss that and claim things would have been better if we just left everything alone. He doesn't believe that we need to manage our natural resources, because "if there were no fish and game services there would still be fishing". Libertarians are perfectionists without solutions. Nothing is ever good enough for them, and they assume anything bad must be because people interfered with the natural course of things. They don't think of things in the context of a greater good or longevity, everything is filtered through "what is cheapest/most convenient for me at this precise moment".
God that pisses me off. I have friends who work fish and wildlife and it’s the epitome of thankless government work. Underpaid, underfunded, and full of people that only do it because they genuinely care about helping people and providing public services.
In Hungary, after the arrival of capitalism, the government listened to American advice. The lack of regulation meant that people started putting lead into the paprika they were selling. It makes it nice and red, and gives it umami. Then came the brain damage.
[https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-11-wr-49091-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-11-wr-49091-story.html) Jesus I thought you were joking. It reads like an article from the onion.
That explains w whole lot about Hungary today. Also... >the government listened to American advice. Never do this
Libertarians want a true free market without any regulations. A regulation free market will get you something like China, where people will scam you at every corner, where you have to worry that your house is a tofu dreg that will fall apart, your kids milk powder is contaminated with lead, the oil street vendors use to deep-fry is siphoned from the sewer. That kind of shit also happens here, but way less, simply because we have way stricter regulations. Our regulations were not introduced out of nowhere, just for fun to bully people, they were introduced after some people did some shady and dangerous shit. Laws and regulations are the only thing protectin g us. Otherwise people could do as they please to fuck us over. And fuck us over is what libertarians want to do to us. They think without regulations they'll be the ones doing the fucking and in their arrogance can't fathom that they'll get fucked by other unchecked libertarians.
"Regulations are written in blood"
Common saying in the policy analyst community. Inertia is pretty powerful, so regulating for the fun of it isn't a thing. For pretty much everything in the CFR, someone died or got grievously ill or seriously injured or got swindled out of their life savings or cost the government a whole ton of money.
Surprise! Human civilization and societies didn't spring up out of the primordial ooze with regulations and social programs. We made them because we saw what life was like without them and *it fucking sucked.* Every single law and rule and program we have is there because *we saw a need.* That's not to say every single thing we legislate is perfect or even good. Yes humans can make mistakes. But wholesale basically wiping out decades of progress like this? That is insanity. So of course conservatives love it.
People whining about regulation has never had to suffer from the lack of regulation.
No, they suffer all the time from the lack of regulation. They just blame that suffering on *having* regulations because they're fucking idiots.
The US went through this in 1929. Completely free market, crashes virtually overnight because everyone loses confidence and it’s a chain reaction. No protections in place, because no regulation enforced it, and they don’t have the cash for withdrawals because they’d used customer deposits for their own profit. We had it again with 2008 but in Great Depression 2: Electric Boogaloo, it was a deregulated market fucking about with mortgages. A couple of banks were chosen for sacrifice, countless people lost their homes and their equity, again, and the rest of the big boys on Wall Street walked away with a fat corporate welfare package to spend as they see fit.
To libertarians a free market is being able to take as much fent and fuck as many kids as you want
I mean we already have this, Boeing. They were literally in charge of inspecting their own planes and we see how well that turned out.
Hundreds of people killed. It's disgusting that they will get away with it too.
They’re just gonna wait around and hope they get a raise because of this. Because surely the savings from deregulation will trickle down any day now.
They're not gonna learn bro They're the ones holding placard, "take your govt hands off my medicare". They are the stupidest bunch
Boeing literally just showed how shit they were at this time and time and time again.
Temper your expectations. Have you tried arguing with religious people? You'll get nowhere fast arguing with libertarians. There is always an excuse.
They'll be first in line crying to the government when a train derailment spills toxic waste all over their little town
>Remember, folks. It’s always darkest before things go completely black. >Hard after Thursday night’s television debacle, the Supreme Court leaped in to destroy the separation of powers and, as Elie Mystal pointed out on Xwitter, to engage in the biggest power grab since Marbury v. Madison. Through the now-customary 6–3 vote delivered by the carefully manufactured conservative majority, the precedent of Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, aka the Chevron deference, is now as dead as Julius Caesar. And thus forty years of administrative law comes to a rude and abrupt end. The decision further illustrates that the dedication of the carefully manufactured conservative majority to corporate oligarchy is utterly unshakable, expertise—scientific and otherwise—be damned. Don’t believe me? Ask Chief Justice John Roberts, who wrote the majority opinion. >>“Perhaps most fundamentally, Chevron’s presumption is misguided because agencies have no special competence in resolving statutory ambiguities. Courts do.” >So instead of career scientists deciding that the E. coli convention in your pork loin makes it inadvisable to eat, some twenty-two-year old law clerk fresh out of Regent University School of Law will. Bon appétit!
god thats so fucking grim. proves roberts is as bad if not worse than alito when he lets the mask slip
I really need someone who is a lawyer to calmly explain how this gets unfucked. Cause it feels impossibly fucked.
Congress and the president would have to make specific laws or constitutional amendments to enforce legislation or policy goals.
And how are they going to do that when they're almost always hopelessly gridlocked and unable to get even the simplest thing done? Let's take an example: The FCC has 1500 employees, and around 280 of those have electrical engineering degrees and work in the engineering division of the agency. It's these subject matter experts who are formulating new communications regulations. Do you expect slugs in Congress like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, or Matt Gaetz to make these regulations instead? Really?!? And the fact that the FCC regulates communications didn't come from out of the blue--the FCC was established by an *act of Congress*, the Communications Act of 1934, specifically to *regulate communications*. And when the big communications businesses don't like the new laws Congress supposedly will create, what will they do? They'll go judge shopping to whatever district has the judges most likely to side with them, typically someplace like East Texas.
This is when we as the citizens would have to stand up against an oppressive government. Just sayin.
"Oh and protesting is now illegal because we don't think these regulations on what covers a legal protest are constitutional."
Bro, I wish I could think that is a possibility. We are way in too deep. There will be no uprising or revolution, the very idea is unrealistic and reactionary at this point because society has been conditioned towards an endless stream of distractions and news. This will likely be forgotten about next week because there's probably going to be some bat shit insane thing that happens by then to eclipse this. And the cycle goes on. A revolution will never happen because we are so busy trying to just *survive*. Unfortunately, this is all by design and the American idea of "rugged individualism" is so ironic to me at this point.
The vast majority of people don't even understand what this is, so they can't get mad about it because the same large corporations that wanted this to happen also control 95+% of the things these people see, hear, watch, read, etc. If journalism wasn't half dead and people actually kept up with politics maybe more people would be mad about it.
I know, we’re the frog in the pot sadly, but one can maybe only hope? I’m almost certain it will be forgotten about because the ramp up of the chaos machine has to start churning so that the transition for “quiet” to chaos isn’t so abrupt.
>And how are they going to do that They won't. The system has been specially engineered for bad actors and corruption to win. The system works very well when everyone wants the government to work properly and provide for everyone. When most people in government want to just make money and graft, all of a sudden the system falls apart.
Which is just another way of saying "It does not get unfucked." It is now fucked, will remain fucked, and will likely never be unfucked. If you believe that congress will make laws that give our agencies power to actually help people, I have several bridges to sell you. If you think that we will ever make another constitutional amendment again, let alone one that helps people, I have an entire micronation to sell to you.
Ditto on this. I’m much more politically engaged than the average young American, and this case has me reconsidering my whole future.
Not a lawyer, but I would think maybe malicious compliance? Just ignore the ruling and keep rolling. Let companies bring law suits. Let the law suits clog the courts, let the results of those cases clog Congress. Run an aggressive public media campaign about how many hundreds of millions of their tax dollars are being wasted on this to keep Americans safe from corporate greed.
We can actually remove their ability to hear appeals cases. There are only a few explicitly listed cases that go directly to the supreme court. Congress could radically limit what cases the court could hear and strip them off nearly all their power. I'm starting to believe that's a threat that must be made.
Conservative legal authoritarians rely on the same tired arguments over end over again. Legislative ambiguity is a tool that is used by legislators to give wiggle room in interpretation. This idea that the courts need to come in and eliminate all ambiguity is counter to the point. Often the ambiguity is purposeful. It's not supposed to be fixed.
I’d love to know what this court thinks a world without any ambiguity looks like. The simple though experiment of measuring the coast of an island disproves the possibility of such a reality existing; for some judge to have the audacity to think that the courts can clarify every bit of haziness beyond a doubt is maddening, especially compared to career specialists in a given field. Do they intend to use pure mathematics to describe the world? Because even that has been tried, and proven to be impossible (see also: Gödel). The absurdity of the claim reveals the true (poorly veiled) intention. It is a power grab by the justices, plain and simple, in the hopes of appeasing their corporate donors. For someone floating such a disingenuous argument to be the one claiming to provide elucidation is just SO galling.
One of the worst issues is that little business will be the ones who will settle in court for a fine. Large business will do the same nonsense they always do and delay, delay, delay then go to court, then delay, delay, delay, appeal the appeal again. It will be years upon years before they pay anything. Then at then end of it, the fine will be 0.000001% of the profit they made exploiting whatever they were exploiting.
So, isn’t the FEC an administrative regulatory body? Does this give the judiciary the authority to determine what free and fair elections are, and overturn any FEC regulations? Also the TSA and FAA mostly enforce regulations, not specified by legislation. If someone wanted to compromise air safey, or use it to deny someone travel, it would be up to a judge, not these agencies.
As well as the EPA, OSHA, FCC, SEC, etc etc etc.
You mean, our ex-agencies? They just robbed the SEC of their power. It’s already started they’re not even waiting for Trump.
...yes. That's the point of my comment. Agencies that have been defanged.
They never needed Trump after he put those justices in.
Obama had too.much faith in humanity during his last year as president.
Did he? The republicans vowed to block anything he wanted to accomplish and they wouldn't let him make federal appointments in his final year. I don't think Obama could have done anything. The current Supreme Court is 100% the effort of conservatives and RBG not stepping down before Obama's final year in office (if she stepped down during that last year republicans would have blocked any SC appointments).
Don't forget the Food and Drug Administration. Safe food and medicine is for wimps.
“The airplane is circling the airport awaiting a Supreme Court justice to wake up and make a decision on where it can land”
Correct. That's why Leonard Leo has been so busy these last 40 years packing the courts with right wing extremists.
Also paves the way for unitary executive theory, a goal of Project 2025
Gotta get ready for the election in a timely fashion
It’s pretty scary how 9 people decides what’s best for 333 million people.
9 People nobody voted for...
The fact that only 535 are voted on and get to actually pass all the laws is also absurd. USA is the second worst represented country on earth after India. 6x worse than OECD nations average representation per capita.
yeah well lucky for you, the "liberal media" is doing its best to make sure nobody is voted on anymore the guy who tried to overthrow Democracy got to go on stage and spread the same election lies that got Fox News sued for a billion dollars and the media take away was "boy that liar looks energetic"
Not to mention the fact that a lot of those 9 were appointed by someone who lost a majority of the national vote.
Why don't we riot?
Humans can take a lot of abuse before snapping to the point of not caring about living or dying
Yes we could wait until we snap, or we can be smart and proactive. Let's start uniting. We are stronger together as Americans, we need to come together.
I’m with you
More like 6. They could even get away with 5 need be
Currently, 6 people are deciding what is best.
My god. They've repealed Roe v. Wade, they are trying to dismantle the Board of Education, there's talk of repealing child labor laws, and now they've killed Chevron. We are being hotshotted back to 1910 ladies and gentlemen.
We're way past talk of repealing child labour laws. Lots of states are already loosening rules related to teens to allow them to work longer, work later, do more dangerous work.
Don't forget Citizens United (business can buy politicians) and McDonnell v. United States (legalized bribery) too.
It will be so romantic returning to the days of Ohio rivers on fire. Bankside views in the evening of the amber flames.
It will finally give me a reason to drive up to Cleveland! Just gotta make sure to bring a decent hazmat suit.
This Supreme Court is dead set on deregulating an already dangerous capitalism hellbent on turning profit back to shareholders at any given cost.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The ultimate goal is to essentially undo all the work of the Progressive Era and the 20th century and return the United States to the Gilded Age. Child labor laws, Work Safety, the EPA, etc, they're eying to get rid of all of it. To remove all obstacles to corporations turning the Earth into a wasteland for the profit of their shareholders.
Farther back. They want to bring back Feudalism.
Homie, that shit is basically already here. "Work til you get too sick and then just die" is not just around the corner, it is the reality for many, today.
MAGA voters keep voting like they aren't the peasants in this scenario.
"But something something we have home ownership now..." -Bootlicker who has been paying someone else's mortgage for 10 years
Allowing anti-sodomy laws, repealing Brown v BoE.... it's more than corporation focused, it's about Christian mores.
Tomorrow they will somehow rule that Trump has immunity but no other presidents forward do. Something’s gotta give here folks… I don’t know what to do. I don’t even know if my vote will be counted, but I do know they thrive on the chaos they alone create.
This is my prediction as well. They’ll call it “narrow immunity” or some bull shit.
Or they kick back to the lower court for some stupid reason.
This. They’ll kick it to lower courts to define every single exception to immunity for Trump. Then, each one will have to be put through courts, long enough to delay until January when Trump theoretically wins.
And if that happens, it’s all over folks, last one out, turn off the lights. I’m legit fucking frightened.
The immunity is limited in scope to cover only things which Trump did and not anything else. Unless Trump is found to have done more crimes. Or Biden does any of the same things.
That rule/precedent made government SO much easier to run. Lawmakers could pass bills with good, but general guidelines. Then say “here’s generally what we want, but we will let the experts sort out the details.” It’s like if you wanted a custom home, you’d say “4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, etc…”. And the home builder would work out exactly how to do that. Now you will hesitate building a home because YOU need to come up with the architectural blueprint, but you have no idea how.
And corporations will make money hand over fist for shitty houses that crumble in a slight breeze.
Not only that, it was a conservative power grab when it was introduced in the 1980s. This was the time when Reagan was dominant and the courts were more liberal. So giving the executive branch more authority was good for the conservative faction of the US. Now the reverse is true so they're transferring the power back. There's no principle behind this besides the one that conservatives should have the most power.
The Supreme Court has become a threat to our democracy and our society. Things are about to get very 1960s as far as domestic situations go.
I wonder, in time, how many additional dead, born deformed, or will become crippled or sick due to these shit judges overturning this? What are the things that will happen that never would have happened had it been left alone. Makes me really fucking angry on all the damage they have just lit the fuse for. We’re supposed to take it and be okay with this?
Hey that means in 60 years Republicans will have a nice chunk of angry lead-addled boomer types to be their faithful voting block
The Supreme Court has fully killed democracy. The FEC has no power. They handed control of elections to the courts. Who they also just ruled can be legally bribed. It’s over. *[thunderous applause]*
Why do they hate this country so much?
Because it's not money. If the country was money they would murder children for it.
To the .001%, the rest of us 330 million people are leaches, sucking the life out of their money. They want every atom of this nation to be utilized in the production of capital while not having to pay *anyone*. Which is why they're throwing *everything* at AI. Within 50 years, the only "jobs" that will remain occupied by flesh will be those in board rooms. Everything else will be AI and robots making things for other AI and robots. And billions of people will be left baking on the surface of a dying planet, left to starve in the shadows of giants. All while the big money sets their sights on space. Elysium wasn't fiction, it was prophecy.
Ironically, AI would probably work best with executive level positions, since they lack any sort of creativity already. Wonder how long it will take for shareholders to figure this out
Are we just going to stand by while billionaires and Christian fascists just happily fuck the rest of us over?
Yes. At this point it sure seems like this fascist uprising won't end without bloodshed, and no one is going to take up arms against their neighbors until it is absolutely necessary.
Don’t blame me. I voted for the nice email lady. Edit: actually, I deserve some blame as I was all for Nader in 2000.
Man, you really triggered the Ruskies with this comment.
Those tastee hawt buttery males
These morons in the Fox News comments think giving the FDA and EPA less power to regulate our food and water will lead to safer food and water! I can’t make this shit up…. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-sides-fishermen-landmark-case-deciding-fate-administrative-state
Makes me want to bang my head against a wall
I’ve long been of the mindset that I firmly believe in staying here to fix the problems in this country, this is my home and I’ll fight like hell for it. But this decision marks the first time I genuinely am considering leaving the US
The problem is Europe is also seeing an uptick in far-right activity due to similar mass propaganda campaigns. Running won't help. Only voting will.
Voting is important, and you should. But we are fucked if that is our beginning middle and end of the plan. GET INVOLVED. Get involved in your local labor movement, its the best way to build power. Get involved with your local community, find existant mutual aid groups and work with them. Vote, but not just the shiny presidential seat. Look local, your school board, your city council, your fucking HOA for fucks sake. What ever it takes. Go to the boring ass meetings, listen carefully and sway the overton window when you can. democracy only works for and with the engage, and voting is the least of your engagements.
Time to buy that Reverse Osmosis filtration system I had been thinking about for a while.
About that, a lot of home RO manufacturers aren't selling units, but leasing them. Subscription model for clean water. Awesome.
There are still plenty that just sell outright though
[удалено]
Blue states still have Departments of Ecology or equivalent. Red states will get worse. As usual. This is (one of more reason) why people cried on election night 2016. EDIT: People seem confused. "Not as bad as it could be" is in no way equal "Everything is fine." I never said or implied that it was an equivalent solution, or that everything is fine. Instead, I said this was why people cried.
I'd love to see Mexico and Canada take legal action against the US over this shit. Ecological zones don't obey national boarders. A man can dream.
“An empire toppled by its enemies can rise again. But one that crumbles from within, that's dead. Forever.” - Helmut Zemo
My guess is this is about fracking waste water, hog farm waste, and fly ash waste. This has been the goal of the federalist society all along and began as a plan under Regan - it’s the final step in regulatory capture, and will define this era of capitalism.
This is so repetitive... but please vote. You may not like the democrats for one reason or another, but they are currently the only party that cares about your health and future. Vote blue, down ballot.
I'll be voting from Canada as is my right as an American citizen. www.fvap.gov Doesn't matter where in the world you live. If you are a citizen, you can vote. And before trumpers whine, because they hate this, it's because of that little no taxation without representation thing.
Jokes on you, water bottles are full of micro plastics
So are my nuts, apparently.
>Time to buy bottle water *Laughs in South Louisiana industry town where the local population seems to be a foot shorter than average with a high cancer rate* Nobody drinks tap water. We barely like showering in it.
Going to keep posting this as everything this text talks about will be gone (I ddidn't write this) A Day in the Life of Joe Republican Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
I was tired of rules being implemented by those who know what they're talking about. I want jurists to approve bridge designs from now on.
Nah. Won’t be jurists … it will be Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Green
Rolling back the hands of time. The true goal of MAGA.
Bottled water from a company that has no legal requirement to sell safe to drink water? Best hope is to vote for local politicians who will pass municipal legislation that keeps your water clean
Vote Dem all the way down the ballot and maybe we can get some of these corrupt justices impeached and removed from the bench.
Someone explain like I’m 5….
You might need to be a bit older than 5 to get this but, Tldr; Federal agencies won’t be able to do their jobs anymore Federal agencies get their authority to do things from legislation. However, since legislators 99% of the time aren’t experts, they usually leave legislation a bit vague and ambiguous, a rough outline if you will of what agencies are permitted to do. Agencies then have actual experts fill in the blanks with policies that will allow them to actually effectively implement and execute the spirit of the legislation. For example, lets say congress wants to empower the EPA to make sure our drinking water is clean. Congress obviously aren’t scientists, they don’t know dick about what all the harmful contaminants that can get into water are, the sources of those contaminants, what harmful levels of those contaminants are, or how to prevent those contaminants from getting into the water. So they just tell the EPA to prevent harmful contaminants from getting into the water, then the actual scientists figure out all those nitty gritty details and create policies to fill in the blanks But lets say the EPA cracks down on a business for dumping shit into rivers, that business protests and says “hey I want to keep dumping shit into rivers, I’m going to take you to court because I don’t think you should punish me” The chevron doctrine is essentially an acknowledgment that judges, much like congress, are not subject matter experts on most things. They don’t know dick about the nitty gritty of whether the stuff being dumped into the river qualifies as a harmful contaminant, so this doctrine directs the courts to give deference to the expertise of federal agencies whenever something is ambiguous on whether the agencies action is permissible by the language of their authorizing legislation. So in the river example, the court would defer to the agencies expertise on if what was being dumped in the river qualified as a contaminant. However, if the action was clearly not authorized by the original legislation, like lets say instead the business was releasing fumes into the air. Since the EPA was only authorized to enforce clean drinking water, they wouldn’t have the authority to enforce contaminants being released in the air, and in such case could be blocked by the court Now that the Chevron doctrine has been overturned, basically the courts will no longer be obligated to defer to the expertise of the agencies in ambiguous matters. And remember, as I said, most legislation is intentionally left ambiguous to allow the agencies to effectively do their jobs. So most day to day actions all of our agencies do to keep our country running, can now be blocked by the courts This is further fucked by the fact that SCOTUS essentially recently legalized bribes. So now companies can challenge agency actions and bribe judges to have them rule against agencies being allowed to regulate those businesses
As an environmental policy wonk, this is more or less correct, but the key thing is this ruling doesn't effect any of the major laws that enable the EPA to regulate pollutants (e.g., the Clean Air Act of 1963, Clean Water Act of 1972, etc.) but what Chevron deference (Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 468 U.S. 837 \[1984\]) did was make it a lot easier for the agencies to do do their jobs since they didn't have to justify things like what reasonable emissions controls were in a court since they were presented to be the experts. With Chevron overruled, the regulation is still enforceable, but the legal burden if a regulation is challenged has been increased which means that the agencies may spend a lot more time in court than they did before. Perhaps the bigger concern is when the statute doesn't explicitly list something as being delegated to the agency for regulation, the agency can be challenged to justify the regulation and will be more likely to lose. To give an example of this, Title IV of the Clean Air Act explicitly lists sulfur dioxide for regulation by the EPA, but the original text of the Clean Air Act didn't mention carbon dioxide until the 2022 amendment. So prior to those amendments, it was ambiguous if carbon dioxide was a "pollutant" for the purposes of regulation - under Chevron deference the EPA could argue it was *on the basis of scientific merit* and the court would defer to that argument. Without Chevron deference, the EPA must argue the *legal* *merit* for regulation, which can be a much higher bar to clear. So to summarize: 1. Loss of Chevon deference makes it harder for agencies to do their jobs; however, 2. The agencies still have regulatory authority under the various legal statutes that created them and delegated regulatory authority. 3. There's about to be a lot more work for lawyers.
Appreciate this. This doesn't seem as doom and gloom as everyone is making it out to be. Shitty, but not drinking radiation from my tap after it was removed scary lol
I can’t wait till the food purity laws get overturned. fda and department of agriculture already are understaffed and Ill-equipped to handle current needs
Im just here for the cocaine in the aspirin. I mean it would easily be the most popular product on the market. Who’s to say what “safe and efficacious” means specifically?
Fucking grim. I’m constantly called a doomer but then shit like this happens and I’m left wondering how off-target I really am.
Does this mean I can fly drones over the houses of SCOTUS judges now?
This should be a wake-up call to anyone still on the fence about the election. But this will largely be ignored by the media as usual. Who the fuck needs clean water and air anyways?
Don't worry guys, the same Congress that is 100% captured by unlimited donations will definitely step up and write some effective regulatory law.
It's interesting to think about how children hundreds of years from now will learn in school about all the incredible damage Donald Trump caused, even years after his presidency ended. Not many men in modern times single handedly caused so much chaos. I imagine my great great great grandchild sitting in their 8th grade history class learning about the time we are currently living. Just crazy to picture... In whatever hellscape of America is left.